PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 7.24 Detroit 6 - Sox 2 Postgame


#1swisher
07-24-2013, 11:19 PM
Comcast SportsNet ‏@CSNChicago (https://twitter.com/CSNChicago)

[WATCH] Robin Ventura addressing the media after the #WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox&src=hash) fall, 6-2, to the Tigers -- http://bit.ly/16slbgj (http://t.co/1ledCevGNZ)

amsteel
07-24-2013, 11:24 PM
The Sox were OK last year and continually got their pants pulled down by the Tigers, so why not this year.

What sucks is that after next week all we have look forward to is...finding Ventura's replacement?

WhiteSox5187
07-24-2013, 11:26 PM
The Sox were OK last year and continually got their pants pulled down by the Tigers, so why not this year.

What sucks is that after next week all we have look forward to is...finding Ventura's replacement?

What happened tonight? I was talking to my dad last night about how Ventura might have lost the clubhouse with Sale and Rios calling him out in the media in the past week.

QCIASOXFAN
07-24-2013, 11:29 PM
Looks like we left a couple guys on base tonight....:thud:

cv sox fan
07-24-2013, 11:32 PM
Cannot wait to replace him, he lost this team last year down the stetch as for rios and sale calling him out last nite why not in that debacle no one got benched this team is lifeless and pathetic.

shingo10
07-24-2013, 11:37 PM
I agree that Robin and the staff deserve their fair share of blame but I don't want to hear any player on this team bitching about the coaching staff.

Act like a major league team who knows how to catch the damn ball and string together some hits.

The players need to own this too. Rios especially pisses me off because he has a track record of not hustling, having mental lapses. Look in the mirror.

As far as replacing Robin, I think at this point since we'll be in full rebuild next year (most likely) that Robin can do what he was originally brought it to do...teach the younger kids the right way to play.

palehosepub
07-24-2013, 11:37 PM
I was at the game tonight on the right field wall and saw Rios dog a catchable bloop single early in the game and then not run hard when he hit in a double play.

He has to go.

His value probably dropped with his recent charades the Sox have to move him and get the best offer they can, just like with Crain and Lindstrom (because they are free agents after the season)

They will have to pay some of Rios salary but I truly believe that the Sox have had enough of him and will cut their losses.

Irishsox1
07-24-2013, 11:43 PM
Robin has lost the team and he has got to go. He's in over his head. Still doesn't fix the Rios/Peavy/Dunn mess Kenny got the Sox in, but it's a step in the right direction.

amsteel
07-24-2013, 11:47 PM
What happened tonight? I was talking to my dad last night about how Ventura might have lost the clubhouse with Sale and Rios calling him out in the media in the past week.

Nothing specific tonight, just the overall sub 0.500 record and degradation of team skill.

shingo10
07-24-2013, 11:58 PM
Robin has lost the team and he has got to go. He's in over his head. Still doesn't fix the Rios/Peavy/Dunn mess Kenny got the Sox in, but it's a step in the right direction.


For the longest time the Sox haven't had a true leader in the clubhouse. In Ozzie's first couple years they seemed to respond very well to him then faded out. Last year Robin and the coaching staff seemed to have a good handle on things but I think the September collapse has had a lasting effect. Maybe these guys don't think they can win the division. Whatever the case, I hope Hahn can make some decent moves. I'm getting impatient and worried that we are going to mess this trade deadline up.

SoxSpeed22
07-25-2013, 12:02 AM
I've said before that I wouldn't mind the losing if the team caught the ball, hustled and did the little things, but they don't. Yes, Robin has lost the team, which is a real shame since he seemed like he would become a pretty decent manager.
Don't look now, but we're under .400 and only 6 games ahead of Houston (2.5 ahead of Miami) for the worst record in baseball. :thud:

Tragg
07-25-2013, 12:06 AM
Robin has lost the team and he has got to go. He's in over his head. Still doesn't fix the Rios/Peavy/Dunn mess Kenny got the Sox in, but it's a step in the right direction.
Indeed.
His strategic decisions have been poor as well all season long.

BainesHOF
07-25-2013, 12:06 AM
I was talking to my dad last night about how Ventura might have lost the clubhouse with Sale and Rios calling him out in the media in the past week.

Yes, I believe Ventura has lost the team. One, all you have to do is watch what's happening on the field. Rios dogged it again on a double play tonight. And I believe both Sale and Rios questioning Ventura to reporters happened because talk among the players made them comfortable doing so.

Patrick134
07-25-2013, 12:16 AM
What happened tonight? I was talking to my dad last night about how Ventura might have lost the clubhouse with Sale and Rios calling him out in the media in the past week.

Sale and Rios were obviously on the wrong side of those 2 call outs, and they both admitted it.

Wedema
07-25-2013, 12:20 AM
It was like being at a long drawn out funeral tonight at the ball park. The Sox are playing like it is September already.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2013, 12:22 AM
Sale and Rios were obviously on the wrong side of those 2 call outs, and they both admitted it.

The fact that they are calling out their manager in the first place is unnerving. And I don't think Rios admitted to being wrong in calling out Robin. I know Sale did but I think Rios only apologized and admitted to being wrong for not hustling out a ground ball.

kittle42
07-25-2013, 01:02 AM
Hiring Robin Ventura as a manager was akin to hiring a law student to represent a major international corporation at trial.

Tragg
07-25-2013, 01:03 AM
Sale and Rios were obviously on the wrong side of those 2 call outs, and they both admitted it.

Sale was on the wrong side only because he shouldn't call out his manager. Strategically, he was right.

JB98
07-25-2013, 01:17 AM
I don't blame Sale for being upset the other day with the decision to walk Cabrera. I disagreed with Ventura's move in that situation as well, but it's not the player's place to air that out in public. Chris knows that and already apologized. It's not a big deal. It's not evidence that Robin "has lost the clubhouse." I'm quite sure players disagree with managerial moves all the time. Usually, it goes unsaid, but in a season like this, guys are frustrated and sometimes say too much when a microphone is shoved in front of their face after yet another disappointing loss.

As for Rios, well, Hahn will be removing him from this clubhouse soon enough. It doesn't matter what the hell he thinks of Ventura. When he's gone, he won't be missed. The Sox are going to lose most every day regardless of who their No. 3 hitter is.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2013, 01:23 AM
Hiring Robin Ventura as a manager was akin to hiring a law student to represent a major international corporation at trial.

Exactly, he was set up to fail.

JB98
07-25-2013, 01:43 AM
I agree that Robin and the staff deserve their fair share of blame but I don't want to hear any player on this team bitching about the coaching staff.

Act like a major league team who knows how to catch the damn ball and string together some hits.

The players need to own this too. Rios especially pisses me off because he has a track record of not hustling, having mental lapses. Look in the mirror.

As far as replacing Robin, I think at this point since we'll be in full rebuild next year (most likely) that Robin can do what he was originally brought it to do...teach the younger kids the right way to play.

I would agree with every part of this post, especially the part about Rios.

You know, I've read dozens of posts on WSI this season bitching about the lack of accountability with the Sox. People have been calling for Robin to bench this person or that person all year for poor play or for not hustling.

So, Robin finally benches somebody, in this case Rios. Rios pops off about how it was handled in the press, and people cite that as evidence that Robin has lost the clubhouse and should be fired.

We can't have it both ways, guys. I, for one, was glad that Ventura made an example out of Rios. If Rios doesn't like it, tough ****. It was long past time a player on this team got held accountable for dogging it on the field. We have some veteran players who maybe got a little too comfortable with their place on the team. I think the front office will be showing a few guys just how replaceable they are very shortly.

Chez
07-25-2013, 07:28 AM
Hiring Robin Ventura as a manager was akin to hiring a law student to represent a major international corporation at trial.

Actually, in some ways it was worse. At least a law student spends three years training to be a lawyer. Robin had zero training to be a manager.

Jurr
07-25-2013, 07:38 AM
Actually, in some ways it was worse. At least a law student spends three years training to be a lawyer. Robin had zero training to be a manager.

Two totally different skill sets. You train to be a technician. If you're a doctor, lawyer, or baseball player, you spend your formative years learning skills that take you to that skill set. You are at that point nothing but a master of a craft.

Owning a business or being an executive takes another set of skills that must be developed. You must have some natural leadership ability, but you have to spend time learning a new craft. Technicians aren't always the best managers, no matter what discipline we could talk about.

Ventura doesn't inspire, and that is huge when things go badly.
You have to know how to motivate people to turn in a great effort day in and day out. You have to set up methods of demanding accountability.

Obviously Ventura has not done this, and now that he is trying to establish control (after neglecting it for so long), nobody is buying in.

Great ball player. Great human being. Not quite cut out for this job.

That said, he wasn't granted much favor in the way of the roster. This lineup is a joke.

SCCWS
07-25-2013, 08:42 AM
We can't have it both ways, guys. I, for one, was glad that Ventura made an example out of Rios. If Rios doesn't like it, tough ****. It was long past time a player on this team got held accountable for dogging it on the field. We have some veteran players who maybe got a little too comfortable with their place on the team. I think the front office will be showing a few guys just how replaceable they are very shortly.

I think it works both ways. When Thornton arrived in Boston, several media sources said he was thrilled going into a winning situation. So as much as the front office may show players they can be replaced, I think some players will be happy to go to a team that has a chance for post-season play.

P.S.------ Thornton may not be as happy now as he has struggled in Boston.

cv sox fan
07-25-2013, 09:50 AM
Set up to fail? I do not think any one expected this team to be so bad. the lack of fundamentals is on robin and staff. These guys were solid last year.the off season signings or lack of is on Hahn. We have not had steady third baseman in years,flowers catching everyday and our out field defense,left and center is quite a joke. Then there is the whole done thing and now I have to watch him try to play the field. Come on robin put the best guys u have out there forget stepping on toes

kittle42
07-25-2013, 10:26 AM
Come on robin put the best guys u have out there

He did.

Harry Chappas
07-25-2013, 11:14 AM
Questions about Ventura's ability as a manager were raised last year too despite the team's relative success in the w/l column. His pitching changes, the Sale starter/closer fiasco, etc. It's not like people were just waiting until now to be critical of him. His hiring was a 'head-scratcher' from day one.

My hope is that he quits at the end of the year. If he does, I hope Hahn doesn't limit himself to former White Sox. This team/organization needs a complete makeover.

24thStFan
07-25-2013, 11:45 AM
Questions about Ventura's ability as a manager were raised last year too despite the team's relative success in the w/l column. His pitching changes, the Sale starter/closer fiasco, etc. It's not like people were just waiting until now to be critical of him. His hiring was a 'head-scratcher' from day one.

My hope is that he quits at the end of the year. If he does, I hope Hahn doesn't limit himself to former White Sox. This team/organization needs a complete makeover.

I'd like to see the organization go after Joe Maddon. I know it will never happen, but Maddon might appreciate a move to a big market and the opportunity to get out of the AL East.

Tragg
07-25-2013, 11:59 AM
I'll go with hiring Ventura is like hiring a doctor who has been retired for ten years and away from medicine to run your hospital.

kittle42
07-25-2013, 12:04 PM
I'll go with hiring Ventura is like hiring a doctor who has been retired for ten years and away from medicine to run your hospital.

That works.

Chez
07-25-2013, 12:49 PM
I'll go with hiring Ventura is like hiring a doctor who has been retired for ten years and away from medicine to run your hospital.

Funny. That was the exact analogy I used with my friends when Robin was hired.

kittle42
07-25-2013, 12:56 PM
Funny. That was the exact analogy I used with my friends when Robin was hired.

Can you imagine how pissed guys like Ryne Sandberg - who have to work their way through the system and succeed as coaches and managers - feel when a *completely* inexperienced guy gets an immediate MLB manager position? It's probably how hard corporate workers feel about some rich dude's kid being named a VP right away.

SI1020
07-25-2013, 01:04 PM
A while back when I merely suggested that some of you initially were of the opinion that RV was unqualified and unprepared to lead the team, I got ripped but good. Now that the team is in free fall this is a theme that gets repeated almost every day around here. I don't believe that everyone has to have experience to do a new job well. There are tons of people in this country stuck at home or mired in obscure mind numbing jobs because no one will give them a chance to prove themselves. As for Ventura, I don't know what the hell happened. Last year some of his in game moves left us scratching our heads, but until the September collapse I thought he was doing above average all things considered. He has lost the team but I don't know if vintage Joe McCarthy or John McGraw could motivate these stiffs. Even the great Casey Stengel found that managing the Mets wasn't the same as sitting back and making decisions for the mighty Yanks at their height of their dominance. Worse yet I don't think anyone in management knows the way out of this mess.

Tragg
07-25-2013, 01:12 PM
I don't believe that everyone has to have experience to do a new job well. There are tons of people in this country stuck at home or mired in obscure mind numbing jobs because no one will give them a chance to prove themselves.

That's true, but the person who needs a chance, needs a chance to prove himself...you don't hire him from his bedroom to be president. You put him down in the organization and give him a chance to prove himself and move up.

Chez
07-25-2013, 01:15 PM
Can you imagine how pissed guys like Ryne Sandberg - who have to work their way through the system and succeed as coaches and managers - feel when a *completely* inexperienced guy gets an immediate MLB manager position? It's probably how hard corporate workers feel about some rich dude's kid being named a VP right away.

Couldn't agree more -- and I've used that same Sandberg argument. HOF player willing to ride the buses for years in the low minors to serve his apprenticeship. You gotta respect him for his willingness to pay his dues.

JB98
07-25-2013, 02:05 PM
Set up to fail? I do not think any one expected this team to be so bad. the lack of fundamentals is on robin and staff. These guys were solid last year.the off season signings or lack of is on Hahn. We have not had steady third baseman in years,flowers catching everyday and our out field defense,left and center is quite a joke. Then there is the whole done thing and now I have to watch him try to play the field. Come on robin put the best guys u have out there forget stepping on toes

Name me the players who aren't playing who should be. I'll bet you can't.

kittle42
07-25-2013, 02:48 PM
Name me the players who aren't playing who should be. I'll bet you can't.

Bingo. When a seemingly deserving new player was brought up to catch, Ventura played him. When Keppinger sucked, Robin played Gillaspie.

Who else was there to play? Nobody.