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View Full Version : *Official* Love That Leather 7-21 Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
07-21-2013, 04:54 PM
Web gems are always nice to see. Great job, Kepp and Casp.

LITTLE NELL
07-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Nice to see the boys have not quit taking a series from a tough team.

TDog
07-21-2013, 05:35 PM
Taking two of three in two consecutive series against first-place teams, the Sox have been playing much better baseball. Unfortunately, the series bookended losing two of three extra-inning games in Philadelphia.

The Braves in the last two games looked like the White Sox in a lot of their losses this year, but the defense has shown up strong, playing as it is capable. Countless times this year I've wondered how the Sox can't score with a runner on third, even the bases loaded and no one out, and today the Braves wasted more scoring opportunites than the Sox had all day.

After a two-out RBI single to the left side of second by Dunn, something I would have liked to see more of this year, the difference offensively was Rios, once putting a ball in play over a drawn-in infield and also scoring after reach first without any hits behind him, stealing second and advancing on two fly balls.

But, of course, three runs were enough today because Keppinger saved two with a great play at second and Wells saved two with a catch in the eighth. As has been the case with the Sox sometimes before the break, wasting opportunities involved strong defense by the opposition. It's nice to see some of that from the Sxo in a season where the defense has provided more scoring opportunites than they have saved.

It must have been a fun day on the banks of the Dan Ryan.

tstrike2000
07-21-2013, 05:46 PM
Nice win over Terdoslavich and Co.

SI1020
07-21-2013, 06:37 PM
It would be nice if that solid defense they had most of last year would return. As for today, it was to me vintage Sox baseball. Good pitching, solid defense and timely hitting. Always welcome and especially so this year.

WLL1855
07-21-2013, 07:05 PM
Seemed Quintana filrted with disaster all game but came out on the good side of it. I'll take a win when I get it.

beasly213
07-21-2013, 07:10 PM
This is the exact kind of game from the Braves WSI would want Greg Walker fired for! :tongue:

captain54
07-21-2013, 07:42 PM
Hawk and Stone made a point of commenting on the Braves organization and how they are stellar at scouting their own talent, knowing their own personnel on the farm and in the Show and really understanding what they can and can't do...

Which brings me to Casper Wells vs Viciedo in left.. How many games have been lost by having a butcher in LF this year? That game today was an "L" with Viciedo in LF ..

Brian26
07-21-2013, 08:38 PM
Nice win over Terdoslavich and Co.

I loved that the Sox scoreboard was not wide enough to show his entire name (before it went out in the 7th or 8th inning). So, he was Terdoslav today.

cards press box
07-21-2013, 08:42 PM
The defense was great today!

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=26346930 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=casper%20the%20friendly%20ghost&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=0eccaHVO4ZNYUM&tbnid=8SUA-CRo0gsGvM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polyvore.com%2Fjon_casper_fri endly_ghost%2Fthing%3Fid%3D26346930&ei=0H_sUaisOYeCygH8toGICg&bvm=bv.49478099,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNEu2iq_6lrWUgi8ykxuK3IiDp9zLA&ust=1374540075023232)

That's a White Sox winner!

Railsplitter
07-21-2013, 10:14 PM
The Sox throw leather and the other team squanders opportunities?

Must be Backwards Day.

:bandance::bandance:

JB98
07-21-2013, 10:34 PM
This is the exact kind of game from the Braves WSI would want Greg Walker fired for! :tongue:

Yeah, the Braves played a classic Walkerball game. I enjoyed being on the other side of one of those. :cool:

Nice day at the ballpark. I've been lucky this season -- the Sox have won more than they've lost with me in attendance. I'm glad Quintana got a win on a day where he struggled. He's had a number of games over the last two years where he pitched well and had nothing to show for it.

Brian26
07-21-2013, 11:11 PM
The Sox throw leather and the other team squanders opportunities?

Must be Backwards Day.

:bandance::bandance:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090704230810/marvel_dc/images/3/3e/Bizarro_Super_Friends.jpg

Me no like White Sox. They catch ball and never make baserunning blunders.

October26
07-22-2013, 10:55 AM
The defense was great today!

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=26346930 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=casper%20the%20friendly%20ghost&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=0eccaHVO4ZNYUM&tbnid=8SUA-CRo0gsGvM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polyvore.com%2Fjon_casper_fri endly_ghost%2Fthing%3Fid%3D26346930&ei=0H_sUaisOYeCygH8toGICg&bvm=bv.49478099,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNEu2iq_6lrWUgi8ykxuK3IiDp9zLA&ust=1374540075023232)

That's a White Sox winner!

Yes it was! :bandance: and I am loving your creative use of images...what a catch by Casper Wells! The Keppinger diving play was terrific as well. I hardly ever tune in for web gems but did so last night to see both of these again.

October26
07-22-2013, 10:57 AM
The defense was great today!

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=26346930 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=casper%20the%20friendly%20ghost&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=0eccaHVO4ZNYUM&tbnid=8SUA-CRo0gsGvM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polyvore.com%2Fjon_casper_fri endly_ghost%2Fthing%3Fid%3D26346930&ei=0H_sUaisOYeCygH8toGICg&bvm=bv.49478099,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNEu2iq_6lrWUgi8ykxuK3IiDp9zLA&ust=1374540075023232)

That's a White Sox winner!

Yes it was! :bandance: and I am loving your creative use of images...what a catch by Casper Wells! The Keppinger diving play was terrific as well. I hardly ever tune in for web gems but did so last night to see both plays again.

Stanley
07-22-2013, 11:48 AM
This was the first game I watched the majority of in a long time, and it was a nice treat all around. Hawk and Stone were working well together and both seemed to genuinely be enjoying themselves. They did a nice job complementing the camera focus on the food at the Cell with some lively commentary on coming out and enjoying a game at the park. I know it was Sunday and the weather was great, which can make even the grumpiest of old timer's sing a happy tune, but hopefully they can keep this up.

Nice defense, nice to see Rios increase his trade value. Quintana scares me, though. Sucks that Beckham is out again, too. As much as I'm not a believer in him sustaining some success, he has clearly looked more comfortable at the plate during his hot streak. But I also think said hot streak is largely due to the way pitchers are throwing at him (like it is his rookie season).

Tragg
07-22-2013, 12:12 PM
Quintana gets hit sometime...but he's a fighter.

I think this year has highlighted the importance of good D. WE played great today...most of the year we played poor D. Poor D, or even less than great D, would have resulted in an L.

A team with pitching as its strength cannot have poor D.

JB98
07-22-2013, 03:48 PM
This was the first game I watched the majority of in a long time, and it was a nice treat all around. Hawk and Stone were working well together and both seemed to genuinely be enjoying themselves. They did a nice job complementing the camera focus on the food at the Cell with some lively commentary on coming out and enjoying a game at the park. I know it was Sunday and the weather was great, which can make even the grumpiest of old timer's sing a happy tune, but hopefully they can keep this up.

Nice defense, nice to see Rios increase his trade value. Quintana scares me, though. Sucks that Beckham is out again, too. As much as I'm not a believer in him sustaining some success, he has clearly looked more comfortable at the plate during his hot streak. But I also think said hot streak is largely due to the way pitchers are throwing at him (like it is his rookie season).

Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

asindc
07-22-2013, 04:29 PM
Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

He is already looking like he's going to be more consistent than Floyd ever was.

DeadMoney
07-22-2013, 04:45 PM
Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

He's 9th in the AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2013-pitching-leaders.shtml) in pitcher WAR. Yeah, I'd agree that he's been a bit better than league average.

SoxSpeed22
07-22-2013, 06:20 PM
If Quintana stays as a middle/back of the rotation starter, we should be all right. I'll admit he relies a bit too much on his fastball, but he can get a lot done with it. I think he still has plenty of room to improve and should be a good piece to have during this impending transitional phase.

Stanley
07-23-2013, 01:24 AM
Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

Of course. Quintana is just not very good and the numbers will bear that out sooner or later. Speaking of Gavin Floyd, he also had a year when he was in the mid 3's in ERA and had 18 wins. After that, Gavin Floyd was only consistently giving me a headache. Perhaps a better example: Bruce Chen. A not overpowering lefty who relied on command and ground balls (and luck), and who also had an anomalous year where he sat in the mid 3's in ERA, which earned him a multi-year deal, IIRC.

I don't think it's wise at this point to expect mid 3's ERA out of Quintana year in year out, even after a whopping 20 starts. He may stick around in the majors for a while but I don't expect him to be someone a team can consistently rely on, nor am I stoked to have him rounding out our rotation. We shall see, though, I guess.

MISoxfan
07-23-2013, 01:35 AM
The guy actually has 42 starts. He's 23 and makes $500,000 and is cost controlled for years. Maybe he won't pan out, but I'm glad to have him.

JB98
07-23-2013, 01:17 PM
Of course. Quintana is just not very good and the numbers will bear that out sooner or later. Speaking of Gavin Floyd, he also had a year when he was in the mid 3's in ERA and had 18 wins. After that, Gavin Floyd was only consistently giving me a headache. Perhaps a better example: Bruce Chen. A not overpowering lefty who relied on command and ground balls (and luck), and who also had an anomalous year where he sat in the mid 3's in ERA, which earned him a multi-year deal, IIRC.

I don't think it's wise at this point to expect mid 3's ERA out of Quintana year in year out, even after a whopping 20 starts. He may stick around in the majors for a while but I don't expect him to be someone a team can consistently rely on, nor am I stoked to have him rounding out our rotation. We shall see, though, I guess.

Well, we'll see. Again, the expectations aren't real high, but I see no reason why he wouldn't be a serviceable pitcher to round out the rotation for the forseeable future -- especially during a transitional phase for the organization. He's been around the league a couple times now, and he's still holding his own.

I don't really see a comparison to Floyd.

Domeshot17
07-23-2013, 01:38 PM
Well, we'll see. Again, the expectations aren't real high, but I see no reason why he wouldn't be a serviceable pitcher to round out the rotation for the forseeable future -- especially during a transitional phase for the organization. He's been around the league a couple times now, and he's still holding his own.

I don't really see a comparison to Floyd.

Your line of thinking is good. Some people think Quintana is this future front line kid who is going to carry us with Sale. He is not. He is a 4/5. He is FINE as a 4/5. Same with Santiago. They are not 1-2-3 SP. They are not stoppers. They give you innings and a chance to win most games. They won't out pitch an ace in the playoffs, but they may save your bullpen getting there.

doublem23
07-23-2013, 02:15 PM
Your line of thinking is good. Some people think Quintana is this future front line kid who is going to carry us with Sale. He is not. He is a 4/5. He is FINE as a 4/5. Same with Santiago. They are not 1-2-3 SP. They are not stoppers. They give you innings and a chance to win most games. They won't out pitch an ace in the playoffs, but they may save your bullpen getting there.

Again, it needs to be said that Quintana currently ranks 9th in the AL in WAR for P, he is maybe not destined to be an ace like Chris Sale, but he is a good addition to any team's middle rotation.

I agree last year's Quintana looked to be a lot of smoke and mirrors, he was a soft tossing lefty without especially good command of his pitches and he wore down as the season dragged along. This offseason, he worked a lot with the Sox strength and conditioning coaches and the results show. He is not the same pitcher he was last year. He dials his fastball up to the mid-90s now, which can mask some of his command issues. He's actually a much better than average SP; he's basically the #3 P on what is one of baseball's better starting rotations.

Domeshot17
07-23-2013, 03:32 PM
Again, it needs to be said that Quintana currently ranks 9th in the AL in WAR for P, he is maybe not destined to be an ace like Chris Sale, but he is a good addition to any team's middle rotation.

I agree last year's Quintana looked to be a lot of smoke and mirrors, he was a soft tossing lefty without especially good command of his pitches and he wore down as the season dragged along. This offseason, he worked a lot with the Sox strength and conditioning coaches and the results show. He is not the same pitcher he was last year. He dials his fastball up to the mid-90s now, which can mask some of his command issues. He's actually a much better than average SP; he's basically the #3 P on what is one of baseball's better starting rotations.

I do not disagree with you, but my reason for liking Jose at the 4 is the following (and I agree, he can be a 3, but I like him as a 4).

Game 3 tends to be a very pivotal game in a playoff series. Jose would be one of the weaker 3's to go into the playoffs in the AL. I don't think he gives you the best chance to win. He reminds me too much of Gavin Floyd. A player that the stats said should be fine, and the eye test left you feeling shaky. Gavin got the snot kicked out of him in the playoffs.

Obviously different players react in different ways, and maybe he will shine. I just think he will eventually settle into that reliable number 4 type role. I would LOVE to be shocked. I think he has value for sure.

TaylorStSox
07-23-2013, 03:50 PM
Of course. Quintana is just not very good and the numbers will bear that out sooner or later. Speaking of Gavin Floyd, he also had a year when he was in the mid 3's in ERA and had 18 wins. After that, Gavin Floyd was only consistently giving me a headache. Perhaps a better example: Bruce Chen. A not overpowering lefty who relied on command and ground balls (and luck), and who also had an anomalous year where he sat in the mid 3's in ERA, which earned him a multi-year deal, IIRC.

I don't think it's wise at this point to expect mid 3's ERA out of Quintana year in year out, even after a whopping 20 starts. He may stick around in the majors for a while but I don't expect him to be someone a team can consistently rely on, nor am I stoked to have him rounding out our rotation. We shall see, though, I guess.

You just compared Quintana to Bruce Chen. Quintana tops out at 93/94. Chen tops out at 86. They're just alike.:redface:

doublem23
07-23-2013, 03:57 PM
Game 3 tends to be a very pivotal game in a playoff series. Jose would be one of the weaker 3's to go into the playoffs in the AL. I don't think he gives you the best chance to win. He reminds me too much of Gavin Floyd. A player that the stats said should be fine, and the eye test left you feeling shaky. Gavin got the snot kicked out of him in the playoffs.

#9 P in the American League currently

TaylorStSox
07-23-2013, 04:04 PM
Quintana's average fastball velocity is 92.25 MPH. Hitters are hitting .205 against it. Soft tosser my ass.

Domeshot17
07-23-2013, 04:18 PM
#9 P in the American League currently

True, but given the eye test, I would take Justin Verlander over him still.

Stanley
07-23-2013, 04:23 PM
True, but given the eye test, I would take Justin Verlander over him still.

Not so fast, there. You forgot Quintana can dial it up to about 92.5. All that matters, IMHO. The guy is good as hell.

TaylorStSox
07-23-2013, 04:26 PM
Not so fast, there. You forgot Quintana can dial it up to about 92.5. All that matters, IMHO. The guy is good as hell.

When presented with facts, create a strawman. Oh Internet, how I love thee.

Stanley
07-23-2013, 04:52 PM
Like when you said Quintana and Chen were in a different league because Chen throws 86 and Quintana can sometimes throw 93? I can tell you're good at the internet.

MISoxfan
07-23-2013, 04:53 PM
Verlander has been among the best pitchers in baseball for years. Whoever said they would take Quintana over him?

TaylorStSox
07-23-2013, 05:06 PM
Like when you said Quintana and Chen were in a different league because Chen throws 86 and Quintana can sometimes throw 93? I can tell you're good at the internet.

Well, first you were wrong to even compare the pitchers and imply that Quintana is a soft tosser. He's not. Your second mistake was to say Quintana has been this good for "a whopping 20 starts." Actually, he's been this good for 42 starts in which he's posted a 3.69 ERA and 1.29 WHIP. So, he's basically a relatively hard thrower for a LH and has been this good for more than twice as long as you claimed. In fact, his numbers are getting much better as he progresses and his velocity has increased in every month since being called up. You've been completely wrong in this thread.

MISoxfan
07-23-2013, 05:17 PM
Like when you said Quintana and Chen were in a different league because Chen throws 86 and Quintana can sometimes throw 93? I can tell you're good at the internet.

If you want to compare Bruce Chen's age 34 season with a 24-year-old Quintana who has out-pitched that season in every single possible way, go ahead, but it doesn't really mean anything. Quintana has out-pitched Chen so far at every single level. He throws harder, has better control, and strikes out more batters than Chen if you ignore the years Chen spent as a LOOGY.

I don't expect Quintana to turn into a number 2 either, but I'll gladly take a guy who can be a good cost controlled 3-4. Its not easy to have a strong 1-5 and Santiago and Quintana both make that a lot easier for us. With Sale at 1 and Quintana at 3-4 or 4-5 for the next 5 years we only have 2 positions to seriously pay for.

doublem23
07-23-2013, 06:02 PM
I don't expect Quintana to turn into a number 2 either, but I'll gladly take a guy who can be a good cost controlled 3-4. Its not easy to have a strong 1-5 and Santiago and Quintana both make that a lot easier for us. With Sale at 1 and Quintana at 3-4 or 4-5 for the next 5 years we only have 2 positions to seriously pay for.

This post needs to be framed for being 110% correct. For a team that's entering the early stages of a rebuilding effort, they need young guys to come up and perform at pay levels below the market rate.

I'm going to guess that a lot of guys haven't watched Jose pitch this year because the team is so god awfully depressing to watch, but he's evolved into a much different pitcher than he was last season. There is a zip and a sharpness to his pitches that he did not have last year, especially in the 2nd half as his body wore down from its first full season in the Majors. He did a lot of work this offseason to improve his stamina and strength and it has paid off. I know he's not one of the top 10 pitchers in the AL, even if WAR says he is, but people who still look at him as a fringe #5 starter on a good team have not been watching closely. Maybe he'll fall apart like Gavin did, but Floyd also gave the Sox close to 1,000 innings of ultimately, above average pitching over the course of 6 seasons. If Quintana can duplicate that, then he's at least here until 2017, which I can live with. One less player they have to find.

Domeshot17
07-23-2013, 06:12 PM
This post needs to be framed for being 110% correct. For a team that's entering the early stages of a rebuilding effort, they need young guys to come up and perform at pay levels below the market rate.

I'm going to guess that a lot of guys haven't watched Jose pitch this year because the team is so god awfully depressing to watch, but he's evolved into a much different pitcher than he was last season. There is a zip and a sharpness to his pitches that he did not have last year, especially in the 2nd half as his body wore down from its first full season in the Majors. He did a lot of work this offseason to improve his stamina and strength and it has paid off. I know he's not one of the top 10 pitchers in the AL, even if WAR says he is, but people who still look at him as a fringe #5 starter on a good team have not been watching closely. Maybe he'll fall apart like Gavin did, but Floyd also gave the Sox close to 1,000 innings of ultimately, above average pitching over the course of 6 seasons. If Quintana can duplicate that, then he's at least here until 2017, which I can live with. One less player they have to find.

I think I agree with almost all of this. My whole point was, I like Jose better in the 4, because I don't trust him yet in the playoffs.

doublem23
07-23-2013, 06:15 PM
I think I agree with almost all of this. My whole point was, I like Jose better in the 4, because I don't trust him yet in the playoffs.

I'm not going to worry about where a guy slots into a playoff rotation when the team is 20 games under .500

JB98
07-24-2013, 01:08 AM
Quintana's average fastball velocity is 92.25 MPH. Hitters are hitting .205 against it. Soft tosser my ass.

Oh, yeah, he's got a good fastball. He put on a high fastball clinic about three weeks ago against Baltimore. His fastball and his composure on the mound appear to be his two greatest strengths.

WLL1855
07-24-2013, 02:00 AM
Hey. We're Sox fans. We can find a way to hate almost any reason to appreciate what we have to be positive about.

WhiteSox5187
07-24-2013, 02:05 AM
Oh, yeah, he's got a good fastball. He put on a high fastball clinic about three weeks ago against Baltimore. His fastball and his composure on the mound appear to be his two greatest strengths.

I have not watched many Sox games this year for a variety of reasons but I have seen a few Quintana starts and it seems like he is always getting out of trouble and builds up too high of a pitch count early on. Have these starts been anomalies then?

JB98
07-24-2013, 01:37 PM
I have not watched many Sox games this year for a variety of reasons but I have seen a few Quintana starts and it seems like he is always getting out of trouble and builds up too high of a pitch count early on. Have these starts been anomalies then?

I would like to see him be more efficient with his pitches.

But up until Sunday, he had not allowed more than six hits in any of his previous seven starts. And on Sunday, there were a few cheap infield hits out of the nine he allowed.

It's been awhile since I've seen Jose get hit hard.

Stanley
07-24-2013, 08:12 PM
This is pretty funny to me because I actually enjoy watching Quintana's starts most of the time, as his composure and focus on the mound is impressive to watch. It's also amusing because this whole argument started when JB overreacted to my saying "Quintana scares me." I laughed at the sarcastic Verlander comparisons. Obviously Verlander scares a lot of Tigers fans right now, but it doesn't take a genius to see that's about where the similarities end.

The whole 42 starts versus 20 starts thing was my fault for just repeating what someone else had written. However, 42 starts is what, about a year and a half or less of MLB time? Not going to waste my time thinking about all the pitchers who put together a 3.6 and a 1.29 over 42 starts and proceeded to fall on their face/off the face of the earth.

It's been fun reading all your predictions/assertions about Quintana, but you haven't changed my mind at all, really.