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Brian26
07-21-2013, 12:31 PM
10 days until the deadline.

blandman
07-21-2013, 01:04 PM
Anyone else a little worried we haven't seen more movement?

A. Cavatica
07-21-2013, 01:14 PM
Anyone else a little worried we haven't seen more movement?

No. Peavy on the DL stalled the starting pitcher market, Crain on the DL stalls the relief pitcher market. 10 days is a long time -- teams often wait until the last few minutes to pull the trigger on the best offer.

Brian26
07-21-2013, 01:19 PM
No. Peavy on the DL stalled the starting pitcher market, Crain on the DL stalls the relief pitcher market. 10 days is a long time -- teams often wait until the last few minutes to pull the trigger on the best offer.

Rarely do you see teams make multiple deals on the last couple of days though. I think logistically that is very difficult. I would like to see them get something done earlier than the last day.

blandman
07-21-2013, 01:37 PM
No. Peavy on the DL stalled the starting pitcher market, Crain on the DL stalls the relief pitcher market. 10 days is a long time -- teams often wait until the last few minutes to pull the trigger on the best offer.

If Peavy were the big catch on the market, I'd assume that to be true. But most teams have been linked to Garza as their number one choice. I've only heard one team definitively linked to Peavy as their first choice (the Red Sox).

blandman
07-21-2013, 01:37 PM
Rarely do you see teams make multiple deals on the last couple of days though. I think logistically that is very difficult. I would like to see them get something done earlier than the last day.

Yeah, unless it's an utter giveaway.

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 02:08 PM
Anyone else a little worried we haven't seen more movement?

A little bit. I was hoping Garza would move over the weekend to get the losers in on Peavy.

Tragg
07-21-2013, 02:52 PM
I've heard exactly ONE team linked to Garza as their number one choice....Texas. Both have injury histories; Peavy's the better pitcher, but Garza's pitching a little better right now; Peavy has an extra year.

Buyers are waiting...figure more players may be on the market next week.

Is Crain going to be ready for the Deadline. Just listening to him talk, he doesn't seem to have a high sense of urgency in getting healthy.

24thStFan
07-21-2013, 03:08 PM
Anyone else a little worried we haven't seen more movement?

Yes, but I hope this means that we're waiting to hear from more buyers later this week. Next weekend should be interesting.

soxfanreggie
07-21-2013, 03:20 PM
I've heard exactly ONE team linked to Garza as their number one choice....Texas. Both have injury histories; Peavy's the better pitcher, but Garza's pitching a little better right now; Peavy has an extra year.

Buyers are waiting...figure more players may be on the market next week.

Is Crain going to be ready for the Deadline. Just listening to him talk, he doesn't seem to have a high sense of urgency in getting healthy.

I think someone would trade for him, even on the DL though if he would be slated to come back soon after the trade. It probably hurts his value though as far as who we'll get in return.

blandman
07-21-2013, 03:47 PM
I've heard exactly ONE team linked to Garza as their number one choice....Texas

Boston was, but didn't like the price as they considered him a rental. They're looking at Peavy and Gallardo. Baltimore was, didn't like the price, and traded for Feldman instead. The Rockies and Diamondbacks have also put in bids for Garza, and apparently not for Peavy (which is contrary to what John Heyman originally suggested about their interest).

Maybe there's more serious interest right now other than the Red Sox. But nowadays, that stuff tends to get reported fairly quickly.

Tragg
07-21-2013, 04:03 PM
I think someone would trade for him, even on the DL though if he would be slated to come back soon after the trade. It probably hurts his value though as far as who we'll get in return.

He's a guy we should have traded in early June...irrespective of his getting hurt, he was pitching way over his head anyway and that was the time to capitalize. Hindsight, I know.

Golden Sox
07-21-2013, 04:05 PM
Lets hope there's a blockbuster trade involving the White Sox. How about Chris Sale, Alex Rios, and Addison Reed going to the Angels for Mike Trout. The Angels need pitching and we need a 5 tool player like Trout. This would be a blockbuster trade and it would make every front page in America.

Tragg
07-21-2013, 04:08 PM
Lets hope there's a blockbuster trade involving the White Sox. How about Chris Sale, Alex Rios, and Addison Reed going to the Angels for Mike Trout. The Angels need pitching and we need a 5 tool player like Trout. This would be a blockbuster trade and it would make every front page in America.
Nothing wrong with dreaming, I suppose.

I am glad that Reed is on the block...may get someone to over pay for him.

Mr. Jinx
07-21-2013, 04:13 PM
Lets hope there's a blockbuster trade involving the White Sox. How about Chris Sale, Alex Rios, and Addison Reed going to the Angels for Mike Trout. The Angels need pitching and we need a 5 tool player like Trout. This would be a blockbuster trade and it would make every front page in America.

Yeah, I hope we trade for Harper, Cabrera, and Wainright too.

gr8mexico
07-21-2013, 04:18 PM
Lets hope there's a blockbuster trade involving the White Sox. How about Chris Sale, Alex Rios, and Addison Reed going to the Angels for Mike Trout. The Angels need pitching and we need a 5 tool player like Trout. This would be a blockbuster trade and it would make every front page in America.

That's too much to pay for Trout.
If the Cubs are getting Mike Olt, CJ Edwards and Neil Ramirez for Garza then the Sox should offer Peavy for that.
Then flip Alex Rios and Addison Reed for prospects and keep Sale.
The Sox would have a strong rotation next year

DumpJerry
07-21-2013, 05:54 PM
Lets hope there's a blockbuster trade involving the White Sox. How about Chris Sale, Alex Rios, and Addison Reed going to the Angels for Mike Trout. The Angels need pitching and we need a 5 tool player like Trout. This would be a blockbuster trade and it would make every front page in America.
No, no, no, no, no.


Oh, and no.


I heard a report on The Score the other day that Texas lost interest in Garza after looking at his medicals......

RCWHITESOX
07-21-2013, 06:02 PM
That's too much to pay for Trout.
If the Cubs are getting Mike Olt, CJ Edwards and Neil Ramirez for Garza then the Sox should offer Peavy for that.
Then flip Alex Rios and Addison Reed for prospects and keep Sale.
The Sox would have a strong rotation next year

Believe me if the Angels offered Trout for Reed,Sale, and Rios the Sox would make that trade in a heartbeat. No explanation needed.

DumpJerry
07-21-2013, 06:24 PM
Sale is someone you build around, not use as a building block for a trade.

soxfanreggie
07-21-2013, 06:34 PM
Sale is someone you build around, not use as a building block for a trade.

I agree. We have an ace starter, we have back of the rotation guys like Quintana. Now we need 2/3 starters like Danks and Peavy and a 4/5 like Floyd to be healthy and able. Now we need some guys in the field and high-priced hitting FAs who hit.

Tragg
07-21-2013, 06:59 PM
Believe me if the Angels offered Trout for Reed,Sale, and Rios the Sox would make that trade in a heartbeat. No explanation needed.

Of course. Trout is worth 2 Sales....at least.

SOXSINCE'70
07-21-2013, 07:33 PM
Sale is someone you build around, not use as a building block for a trade.


In the words of the late Ed McMahon on any Carnac sketch on "The Tonight Show": "You are correct,sir."
:thumbsup::yup:

blandman
07-21-2013, 07:54 PM
Lets hope there's a blockbuster trade involving the White Sox. How about Chris Sale, Alex Rios, and Addison Reed going to the Angels for Mike Trout. The Angels need pitching and we need a 5 tool player like Trout. This would be a blockbuster trade and it would make every front page in America.

Come on man. The Angels wouldn't trade Trout for our entire roster, minor league system, and the rights to build an amusement park in the plot our ballpark currently resides. He's the best young player in baseball, possibly in the last fifty years, and he's in year two of six making no money.

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 07:58 PM
What a glorious time of the year.

Mike Trout lol.

blandman
07-21-2013, 08:02 PM
That's too much to pay for Trout.
If the Cubs are getting Mike Olt, CJ Edwards and Neil Ramirez for Garza then the Sox should offer Peavy for that.
Then flip Alex Rios and Addison Reed for prospects and keep Sale.
The Sox would have a strong rotation next year

You realize Trout followed up one of, if not the best rookie season in baseball history by essentially duplicating his numbers thus far?

They wouldn't trade him for 5 A list prospects. They're not doing it for someone making money.

No, no, no, no, no.


Oh, and no.


I heard a report on The Score the other day that Texas lost interest in Garza after looking at his medicals......

That rumor has been officially debunked by both sides. Texas pulled an offer that included Luke Jackson because they didn't feel anyone would beat their offer. They're playing the waiting game, but will probably have the best offer still when all is said and done.

blandman
07-21-2013, 08:02 PM
What a glorious time of the year.

Mike Trout lol.

But...Chris Sale!

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 08:04 PM
From what I heard the Cubs pulled out of the Texas deal because of concerns about the prospect pitcher Ramirez.

blandman
07-21-2013, 08:08 PM
From what I heard the Cubs pulled out of the Texas deal because of concerns about the prospect pitcher Ramirez.

On the score today they said both sides were contacted and said injury concerns had nothing to do with the offer falling apart.

A. Cavatica
07-21-2013, 08:11 PM
Of course. Trout is worth 2 Sales....at least.

Not. #1 starters are the most valuable currency in the game.

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 08:16 PM
Not. #1 starters are the most valuable currency in the game.

Are you out of your mind? Mike Trout is probably the most valuable commodity in all of baseball.

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 08:18 PM
On the score today they said both sides were contacted and said injury concerns had nothing to do with the offer falling apart.

Ok. This is where I got my info. https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/jim-bowden-jim-duquette

DumpJerry
07-21-2013, 08:20 PM
Why are some Sox fans so desperate to get rid of Sale? Has Trout ever gotten a called third strike on Joe Mauer that left Mauer talking to himself for the rest of the game? How many teams make it to the Promised Land with mediocre pitching, but one or two really good position players? It starts with pitching.

Noneck
07-21-2013, 08:21 PM
Not. #1 starters are the most valuable currency in the game.

A #1 starter may put fans in the park every 5th day. a commodity that looks like the second coming of Mickey Mantle would put fans in the park everyday.

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 08:24 PM
Why are some Sox fans so desperate to get rid of Sale? Has Trout ever gotten a called third strike on Joe Mauer that left Mauer talking to himself for the rest of the game? How many teams make it to the Promised Land with mediocre pitching, but one or two really good position players? It starts with pitching.

I am not in a hurry to move Sale, but Trout plays every day and might already be the best all around position player in baseball.

Nobody is saying you don't need pitching, but the idea of balking at a trade of Sale for Trout is ludicrous.

I imagine Trout has made quite a few pitchers talk to themselves through out the game.

blandman
07-21-2013, 08:28 PM
Why are some Sox fans so desperate to get rid of Sale? Has Trout ever gotten a called third strike on Joe Mauer that left Mauer talking to himself for the rest of the game? How many teams make it to the Promised Land with mediocre pitching, but one or two really good position players? It starts with pitching.

You're talking about one of the best pitchers in baseball versus a guy that that's not only the best all around player in the game, cheap, controlled five more years, but also likely to be both the best player of the next generation and possibly one of the top players of all time. He had what most people would reasonably call not only the best rookie campaign in history, but one of the best all around single seasons of any player all time. And he's doing it again this year, almost an exact blueprint. It obviously wasn't an aberration.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-21-2013, 09:11 PM
Yeah, I hope we trade for Harper, Cabrera, and Wainright too.

You forgot Harvey.

gr8mexico
07-21-2013, 09:27 PM
Are you out of your mind? Mike Trout is probably the most valuable commodity in all of baseball.

The Angels are 4 games under .500 with Trout and a great lineup.
How would he make the Sox better with a ****ty lineup? And if the Angels where to trade him for Sale that says a lot that they value pitching over offense. Meaning its harder to find an Ace

DumpJerry
07-21-2013, 09:36 PM
A #1 starter may put fans in the park every 5th day. a commodity that looks like the second coming of Mickey Mantle would put fans in the park everyday.

Yeah, the heck with winning. That approach has worked for 100+ years on the north side.

The Angels are 4 games under .500 with Trout and a great lineup.
How would he make the Sox better with a ****ty lineup? And if the Angels where to trade him for Sale that says a lot that they value pitching over offense. Meaning its harder to find an Ace
Bingo. It starts with pitching.

blandman
07-21-2013, 09:36 PM
The Angels are 4 games under .500 with Trout and a great lineup.
How would he make the Sox better with a ****ty lineup? And if the Angels where to trade him for Sale that says a lot that they value pitching over offense. Meaning its harder to find an Ace

It's harder to find an ace than a slugger. It's harder to find a Mike Trout than anything. Where are all the .320+ .400 OBP 30 homer 50 steal guys? There aren't any other Mike Trouts, those numbers don't happen.

Mr. Jinx
07-21-2013, 09:44 PM
You forgot Harvey.

Shoot, my bad. Looking back I realized I also forgot Stanton, Kershaw, Wright, and Molina (Y style) to go after as well.

Noneck
07-21-2013, 09:47 PM
Yeah, the heck with winning. That approach has worked for 100+ years on the north side.





Dont know if the cubs had a guy that brought fans to the park but with the Sox, a guy like that would make ownership very happy.

delben91
07-21-2013, 09:57 PM
I worry this whole debate is setting up a thread on August 1st about how bad Hahn sucks for not accepting the Angels' Trout-for-Sale offer...

Noneck
07-21-2013, 10:00 PM
I worry this whole debate is setting up a thread on August 1st about how bad Hahn sucks for not accepting the Angels' Trout-for-Sale offer...


That trade would only occur if kids still traded baseball cards.

Tragg
07-21-2013, 10:14 PM
Not. #1 starters are the most valuable currency in the game.

2nd most valuable currency..... 2nd to superior hitters, like Trout.

DumpJerry
07-21-2013, 10:16 PM
Dont know if the cubs had a guy that brought fans to the park but with the Sox, a guy like that would make ownership very happy.

:shammy
How soon they forget me....

I worry this whole debate is setting up a thread on August 1st about how bad Hahn sucks for not accepting the Angels' Trout-for-Sale offer...
Keep in mind that this alleged Sale for Trout trade was proposed by a WSIer and is not an actual deal on the table.

delben91
07-21-2013, 10:20 PM
Keep in mind that this alleged Sale for Trout trade was proposed by a WSIer and is not an actual deal on the table.

I understand, which is what makes me all the more certain that thread shows up 1 August :redneck

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 10:21 PM
The Angels are 4 games under .500 with Trout and a great lineup.
How would he make the Sox better with a ****ty lineup? And if the Angels where to trade him for Sale that says a lot that they value pitching over offense. Meaning its harder to find an Ace

White Sox are 16 games under .500 with an Ace and a great staff behind him

That was fun.

Noneck
07-21-2013, 10:21 PM
:shammy
How soon they forget me....





I honestly did forget, shame on me.

Brian26
07-21-2013, 10:21 PM
I don't want to see any team trade with the Angels anymore, as it is far too entertaining to watch their GM run to the mall with Arte Moreno's credit cards every winter to buy up all of the valuable 34-year old free agents hitting the market.

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 10:27 PM
As blandman is pointing out, I don't think some of you realize what Mike Trout accomplished as a rookie. He did something no major leaguer has ever done and he did it as a rookie. He isn't skipping a beat in his second season either.

No one has ever hit 30 homers, steal 45 bases and score 125 runs in one season.

He is also one of the best defensive players in the game.

This is a really silly debate.

pythons007
07-21-2013, 10:31 PM
This messageboard sometimes makes me laugh my ass off while peeing my pants (lmaowpmp)! Lets just stick to what main stream media has heard and is spreading. Because anyone can play armchair GM and make up ludicrous trade speculations and then have followers back it up while others rip it apart.

So the reason I come to this exact thread is to what rumors are cutrentky out there. So please let's stick to that!

soxfanreggie
07-21-2013, 10:53 PM
Of course. Trout is worth 2 Sales....at least.

They may not be equal, but two #1 All-Star starters? I wonder what 2X Sale's WAR vs Trout's WAR would be.

Boondock Saint
07-21-2013, 11:15 PM
As blandman is pointing out, I don't think some of you realize what Mike Trout accomplished as a rookie. He did something no major leaguer has ever done and he did it as a rookie. He isn't skipping a beat in his second season either.

No one has ever hit 30 homers, steal 45 bases and score 125 runs in one season.

He is also one of the best defensive players in the game.

This is a really silly debate.

Yeah, I don't get the argument. Chris Sale is awesome, and one of the top 5 pitchers in the game right now. Mike Trout is looking like he could be one of the greatest players in history. You don't trade that for anything. Ever.

gr8mexico
07-21-2013, 11:27 PM
White Sox are 16 games under .500 with an Ace and a great staff behind him

That was fun.

And 7 games back of the Angels with no Mike Trout and no where near the lineup the Angels have.

CoopaLoop
07-21-2013, 11:58 PM
And 7 games back of the Angels with no Mike Trout and no where near the lineup the Angels have.

Good point?

Obviously this is baseball and we know it takes more than one guy to win a title.

But the Angels would ask if Hahn was high before laughing him off the line if he proposed Sale for Trout.

Top ten pitcher versus top two player period. Not close.

TDog
07-22-2013, 12:27 AM
Sale is someone you build around, not use as a building block for a trade.

Of course he is. I have no idea why so many fans think it would be a good idea to trade him at the deadline.

The point of making deals is improving the team in the future. If you are trading players at the dealine, the players you want to look to move are players who are heading into free agency and/or are drains on the payroll. That isn't Sale. That isn't even Reed. You don't trade players who are well outperforming their salaries and will be under the team's control for awhile. Those are the players you want to build around.

If you are going to trade Sale or Reed, you aren't going to do it at the deadline. You do it in the offseason when there are more potential trading partners and you can get more value. (Look at what the perennial non-contender Royals did last offseason.) If you are limited to trading with the few contenders who need what you are offering, one thing you aren't going to get is someone the team you are trading with believes is in a position to contribute soon at the big-league level. A contender lining up as much talent as possible for the stretch run isn't going to give up someone they believe could help them in September.

I expect Crain will be traded after he returns from the DL. He won't command appreciably more than Thornton did, though, because he doesn't have many innings left in his contract, especially considering that he has been shut down twice since pitchers reported this spring. The Thornton trade didn't save the White Sox future money. It weakened the bullpen in a non-contending season for a prospect well short of a sure thing. It wouldn't surprise me if the Sox make one or two waiver deals.

Seriously, I don't expect the Angels to move Trout in the next 10 days and obviously not on waivers. Look at what the Astros got when they moved Keppinger at the deadline a couple of years ago when he was having a better season. Even if the Sox trade Peavy to a contender, they are unlikely to get players that could help them anytime soon, and it would leave a hole to fill in next year's starting rotation.

I'm not disappointed that the Sox haven't been more active in the trade market because realistically I don't expect much out of the trade market.

blandman
07-22-2013, 08:31 AM
They may not be equal, but two #1 All-Star starters? I wonder what 2X Sale's WAR vs Trout's WAR would be.

Sale had a 5.9 WAR last year, Trout 10.9. But that's not the way WAR is supposed to be used.

CHISOXFAN13
07-22-2013, 08:35 AM
Of course he is. I have no idea why so many fans think it would be a good idea to trade him at the deadline.

The point of making deals is improving the team in the future. If you are trading players at the dealine, the players you want to look to move are players who are heading into free agency and/or are drains on the payroll. That isn't Sale. That isn't even Reed. You don't trade players who are well outperforming their salaries and will be under the team's control for awhile. Those are the players you want to build around.

If you are going to trade Sale or Reed, you aren't going to do it at the deadline. You do it in the offseason when there are more potential trading partners and you can get more value. (Look at what the perennial non-contender Royals did last offseason.) If you are limited to trading with the few contenders who need what you are offering, one thing you aren't going to get is someone the team you are trading with believes is in a position to contribute soon at the big-league level. A contender lining up as much talent as possible for the stretch run isn't going to give up someone they believe could help them in September.

I expect Crain will be traded after he returns from the DL. He won't command appreciably more than Thornton did, though, because he doesn't have many innings left in his contract, especially considering that he has been shut down twice since pitchers reported this spring. The Thornton trade didn't save the White Sox future money. It weakened the bullpen in a non-contending season for a prospect well short of a sure thing. It wouldn't surprise me if the Sox make one or two waiver deals.

Seriously, I don't expect the Angels to move Trout in the next 10 days and obviously not on waivers. Look at what the Astros got when they moved Keppinger at the deadline a couple of years ago when he was having a better season. Even if the Sox trade Peavy to a contender, they are unlikely to get players that could help them anytime soon, and it would leave a hole to fill in next year's starting rotation.

I'm not disappointed that the Sox haven't been more active in the trade market because realistically I don't expect much out of the trade market.

I'm not saying I advocate trading him, but if someone calls and knocks your socks off you listen.

Apparently, the don't trade Sale for anything ever camp doesn't remember the Bartolo Colon to Montreal trade. You know, the one that fetched Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and some left handed starter named Cliff Lee. There are no guarantees, but I'd take a package like that any day.

Mr. Jinx
07-22-2013, 09:05 AM
Good lord, I can't believe this hilariously terrible idea of a trade posted by a random person is still being discussed!

SoxSpeed22
07-22-2013, 09:46 AM
Back to the topic, MLB trade rumors was debating who has more trade value between Garza and Peavy. They mentioned that whoever acquires him can keep him for another year and get a draft pick. Which brings up the question, should the Sox keep Peavy and get the draft pick? I think it depends on the offers.

blandman
07-22-2013, 09:59 AM
Back to the topic, MLB trade rumors was debating who has more trade value between Garza and Peavy. They mentioned that whoever acquires him can keep him for another year and get a draft pick. Which brings up the question, should the Sox keep Peavy and get the draft pick? I think it depends on the offers.

I think it depends on who's making the pick.

asindc
07-22-2013, 10:17 AM
I'm not saying I advocate trading him, but if someone calls and knocks your socks off you listen.

Apparently, the don't trade Sale for anything ever camp doesn't remember the Bartolo Colon to Montreal trade. You know, the one that fetched Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and some left handed starter named Cliff Lee. There are no guarantees, but I'd take a package like that any day.

This is the crucial part of your post.

For the record, I'd listen as well, but wouldn't expect anyone to give anything I'd want for him.

kittle42
07-22-2013, 10:31 AM
Sale is someone you build around, not use as a building block for a trade.

Mike Trout is perhaps the number one player in baseball to build around.

gr8mexico
07-22-2013, 10:36 AM
I'm not saying I advocate trading him, but if someone calls and knocks your socks off you listen.

Apparently, the don't trade Sale for anything ever camp doesn't remember the Bartolo Colon to Montreal trade. You know, the one that fetched Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and some left handed starter named Cliff Lee. There are no guarantees, but I'd take a package like that any day.

True
But if the Cubs where offered Mike Olt, CJ Edwards and Neil Ramirez for Garza.
Then I would think the Sox should take that offer for Peavy and still keep Sale.

Tragg
07-22-2013, 10:58 AM
True
But if the Cubs where offered Mike Olt, CJ Edwards and Neil Ramirez for Garza.
Then I would think the Sox should take that offer for Peavy and still keep Sale.

There's not a real top 50 prospect in the bunch. Olt is fading and the other 2 still have work to do.
Not really the package we need, imo.

Over By There
07-22-2013, 12:42 PM
This has been beat into the ground already, but.

If I was building a team from the ground up, I'd rather have dominant starting pitching than one great hitter. I think almost anyone would.

If I was offered Mike Trout or Chris Sale as the first piece when building a team, I would take Trout. I think almost anyone would.

Domeshot17
07-22-2013, 01:00 PM
The reason you take Mike Trout over Chris sale is impact. Trout has the ability to impact 150 game per year, Sale has a chance to impact 35.

The difference between Trout and say, Miguel Cabrera, Miguel can change the game with 1 swing of the bat.

Trout can change the game with 1 swing, but also with his speed and his defense.

If you were offered Sale or Trout, pick 1, and you picked Sale, you be laughed at.

doublem23
07-22-2013, 01:05 PM
The reason you take Mike Trout over Chris sale is impact. Trout has the ability to impact 150 game per year, Sale has a chance to impact 35.

The difference between Trout and say, Miguel Cabrera, Miguel can change the game with 1 swing of the bat.

Trout can change the game with 1 swing, but also with his speed and his defense.

If you were offered Sale or Trout, pick 1, and you picked Sale, you be laughed at.

Pretty much and, not to rehash the tired "will Sale blow his arm out?" argument, but when you're talking about the injury risk of pitchers vs. position players, it is certainly safer to bet on the position player.

It's one thing when people speculate about 5-star blue chip prospects like Jurickson Profar when talking about "Would You Trade Sale for...?" kind of stuff. Giving away a proven #1 type pitcher for the promise of players who will be better tomorrow for no real discernible reason is laughable. Mike Trout is a legitimate MLB superstar. He's a not a "he'll be ready to go in 2014 or 2015" kind of guy. He's a the fundamental dynamics of our entire team just changed for the better kind of guy.

That said, it's never going to happen, so this is all sizzle and no steak.

SCCWS
07-22-2013, 01:38 PM
Leaving Fantasy Baseball and returning to the real world. I think it is interesting that Yankee rumors have been mostly non-existent. They are fielding an offense that looks as bad as the White Sox except they have Cano. But they played Boston in Boston pretty even this weekend. Maybe Yankee management can now be lured into interest in a Rios/Peavy package. That could increase the Boston offer and maybe the White Sox can get a solid return in young talent.

dickallen15
07-22-2013, 01:53 PM
Leaving Fantasy Baseball and returning to the real world. I think it is interesting that Yankee rumors have been mostly non-existent. They are fielding an offense that looks as bad as the White Sox except they have Cano. But they played Boston in Boston pretty even this weekend. Maybe Yankee management can now be lured into interest in a Rios/Peavy package. That could increase the Boston offer and maybe the White Sox can get a solid return in young talent.

Never underestimate the Yankees trying to get Boston to overpay for something. A couple years ago Cashmans spooked Theo by taking Carl Crawford (a guy the Yankees really weren't interested in, at least anywhere near the asking price) out for dinner.

blandman
07-22-2013, 02:01 PM
Leaving Fantasy Baseball and returning to the real world. I think it is interesting that Yankee rumors have been mostly non-existent. They are fielding an offense that looks as bad as the White Sox except they have Cano. But they played Boston in Boston pretty even this weekend. Maybe Yankee management can now be lured into interest in a Rios/Peavy package. That could increase the Boston offer and maybe the White Sox can get a solid return in young talent.

The Yanks don't want salary beyond this year. They'd be more likely to be in on Garza.

Might be a fit for Konerko...

Fastball23
07-22-2013, 02:20 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 3m (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/359391493225590785)
We hear Red Sox prefer peavy over garza but remain active in talks on both. Much will hinge on buchholz second opinion with dr Andrews

TDog
07-22-2013, 03:11 PM
I'm not saying I advocate trading him, but if someone calls and knocks your socks off you listen.

Apparently, the don't trade Sale for anything ever camp doesn't remember the Bartolo Colon to Montreal trade. You know, the one that fetched Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and some left handed starter named Cliff Lee. There are no guarantees, but I'd take a package like that any day.

Colon was a season away from free agency, was being paid about $5 million and was due for a raise to more than $8 million in his free agent year, which the White Sox ended up being stuck with. The White Sox and their fans expected more out of him, all things considered, and he continued his downhill slide after signing for bigger money with the Angels. Colon with the Indians was not a pitcher they were going to be able to build the team around.

The White Sox control Sale through 2019 and his current contract earns him less than $1 million for this season. Even when he gets his big raise next year, he will be making substantially less than Colon made a decade ago when he was traded.

Of course you listen to offers for everyone. Harry Frazee, who owned the Red Sox almost a century ago, said when asked if his players were for sale, "My hat's for sale. Make me an offer." That's what he was quoted as saying before he sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees, anyway. There are good deals and there are bad deals. When the Indians traded Cliff Lee, whose stock was higher than Colon's when the Indians traded him, they got four prospects, the most impressive of which was Lou Marson. The pitcher they got in the deal never got past Class A, and he's out of baseball.

The White Sox know what they have in Sale. They control him. He is not a drain on their payroll. He is worth more to the Sox than Colon was to the Indians when the Indians traded him 11 summers ago. If you are going to trade Sale, you are going to want more than another team's prospects in return. If you are going to shop Sale, you are going to do it when more teams are buyers than simply the contenders who aren't going to give up components to their contending season.

The deadline deals that result in players trading their stars for multiple stars in return are the exception.

soltrain21
07-22-2013, 03:55 PM
Well, Garza has been dealt to the Rangers. So let's go, Peavy.

SCCWS
07-22-2013, 04:34 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo3m (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/359391493225590785)
We hear Red Sox prefer peavy over garza but remain active in talks on both. Much will hinge on buchholz second opinion with dr Andrews

Oh well............ bad news for White Sox

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo3m (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/359391493225590785)
Farrell said after receiving good report from dr Andrews buchholz more willing to pitch with discomfort

blandman
07-22-2013, 04:46 PM
Oh well............ bad news for White Sox

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo3m (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/359391493225590785)
Farrell said after receiving good report from dr Andrews buchholz more willing to pitch with discomfort

**** :angry:

EMachine10
07-22-2013, 04:49 PM
He still won't likely pitch until mid-August at the earliest. They could still use Peavy.

blandman
07-22-2013, 04:54 PM
He still won't likely pitch until mid-August at the earliest. They could still use Peavy.

That's like two or three starts with days off. I think they'll survive.

Fastball23
07-22-2013, 04:55 PM
Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 2m (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/359430632348192768)
So while moves have been expected around the White Sox, I don't expect them to make deals just to make them. They have targets in mind

blandman
07-22-2013, 04:57 PM
Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin2m (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/359430632348192768)
So while moves have been expected around the White Sox, I don't expect them to make deals just to make them. They have targets in mind

They're holding out for that Sale-Trout swap

SoxSpeed22
07-22-2013, 05:14 PM
Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin2m (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/359430632348192768)
So while moves have been expected around the White Sox, I don't expect them to make deals just to make them. They have targets in mindI'm on board with this approach. If the right deal isn't there for Rios and Peavy at the trade deadline, they can wait until it is there in the offseason. Crain is someone we might have to move in August at worst, but should still be able to get something for him.

TDog
07-22-2013, 05:23 PM
I'm on board with this approach. If the right deal isn't there for Rios and Peavy at the trade deadline, they can wait until it is there in the offseason. Crain is someone we might have to move in August at worst, but should still be able to get something for him.

Crain and Dunn are players I could see being moved for the sake of moving. There will probably be interest in Crain.

LoveYourSuit
07-22-2013, 08:09 PM
I don't want to give Peavy away just for the sake of salary dump.

Part of me still sees this team competing next year with the rotation as is and adding a couple of good bats.

Key to me is getting rid of Rios.

Jpgr91
07-22-2013, 09:11 PM
I don't want to give Peavy away just for the sake of salary dump.

Part of me still sees this team competing next year with the rotation as is and adding a couple of good bats.

Key to me is getting rid of Rios.

Rios is this teams best player. Teams usually can't compete the year after unloading their best player. Even with a couple of bats the team isn't going to compete for a World Series next year, they are better off getting pieces now for a run in a couple of years.

Brian26
07-22-2013, 09:18 PM
They're holding out for that Sale-Trout swap

I read that really quickly and thought I saw Steve Trout's name.

CoopaLoop
07-22-2013, 09:25 PM
Rios is this teams best player. Teams usually can't compete the year after unloading their best player. Even with a couple of bats the team isn't going to compete for a World Series next year, they are better off getting pieces now for a run in a couple of years.

If the Sox are trying to compete for a title next year I think management is failing.

A. Cavatica
07-22-2013, 09:27 PM
A #1 starter may put fans in the park every 5th day. a commodity that looks like the second coming of Mickey Mantle would put fans in the park everyday.

Over the course of a sesaon, a starter faces more hitters than a hitter faces pitchers. He's responsible for more outs. If you want to put fans in the seats, take Trout; if you want to win, take Sale * and whomever else would be in the deal.



* I'm not arguing I'd take Sale even up, but the comments like "Trout is worthy two Sales" are absolutely ridiculous. If Trout has the most trade value in baseball, Sale isn't far behind.

NardiWasHere
07-22-2013, 09:38 PM
Trade them all... To anyone. For anyone. This team sucks.

soltrain21
07-22-2013, 09:47 PM
Trade them all... To anyone. For anyone. This team sucks.

Probably not the most sound of strategies.

soxfanreggie
07-22-2013, 09:50 PM
If the Sox are trying to compete for a title next year I think management is failing.

We'll compete but probably not very well. It will be more seeing what we have in the farm now and who we add here.

rainbow6
07-22-2013, 09:53 PM
Rios is this teams best player. Teams usually can't compete the year after unloading their best player. Even with a couple of bats the team isn't going to compete for a World Series next year, they are better off getting pieces now for a run in a couple of years.

Aren't Rios and DeAza the same player, stat wise?
If so, dump Rios and his salary.

gosox41
07-22-2013, 10:03 PM
I don't want to give Peavy away just for the sake of salary dump.

Part of me still sees this team competing next year with the rotation as is and adding a couple of good bats.

Key to me is getting rid of Rios.

Where are those bats going to come from? More aging hitters on the downside of their careers? That stellar farm system we have with the likes of Jared Mitchell waiting in the wings? Signing failed first round picks aka Tyler Greene where we throw smelly stuff against the wall to see what sticks?

This team has too many holes and not enough money or smarts to legitimately compete next year. Hate to say it, but not trading Peavy either now or in the offseaon is a mistake. Not trading Rios is also a mistake. Heck, not trading Viciedo is a huge mistake. If he's our future, watch out last place because we are a moving in.


Bob

Jpgr91
07-22-2013, 10:19 PM
Aren't Rios and DeAza the same player, stat wise?
If so, dump Rios and his salary.

Offensively it's definitely a wash, defensively Rios is definitely better. Either way, if those two are in the discussion for your teams best player I'm pretty sure it's time to blow it up.

SCCWS
07-23-2013, 10:33 AM
Leaving Fantasy Baseball and returning to the real world. I think it is interesting that Yankee rumors have been mostly non-existent. They are fielding an offense that looks as bad as the White Sox except they have Cano. But they played Boston in Boston pretty even this weekend. Maybe Yankee management can now be lured into interest in a Rios/Peavy package. That could increase the Boston offer and maybe the White Sox can get a solid return in young talent.

I guess not. Just heard that Yankees are close to acquiring Soriano so I guess they won't want Rios.

Noneck
07-23-2013, 10:57 AM
Lindstrom and Crain are the 2 players that have to moved this season. Rios and Peavy can be moved in the off season. The Sox may actually get more for Rios and Peavy in the off season that could make them compete faster. Of course I am not taking in account a salary dump now.

SCCWS
07-23-2013, 11:26 AM
Rios and Peavy can be moved in the off season. The Sox may actually get more for Rios and Peavy in the off season that could make them compete faster. Of course I am not taking in account a salary dump now.

Only if they have good 2nd halves. If Rios tails off or Peavy gets hurt again, the off season value drops considerably.

blandman
07-23-2013, 11:43 AM
I guess not. Just heard that Yankees are close to acquiring Soriano so I guess they won't want Rios.

This feels like a bad dream.

Noneck
07-23-2013, 11:56 AM
Only if they have good 2nd halves. If Rios tails off or Peavy gets hurt again, the off season value drops considerably.

Yes Its a roll of the dice.

blandman
07-23-2013, 03:13 PM
Interesting Jason Stark piece on ESPN about how contending teams are viewing players on the trade market. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings130723/driving-forces-lackluster-mlb-trade-market)

"It seems like all the talk has been about Garza," said one AL executive. "And he's a good player. But he's certainly not a great player. I don't see a lot of great players out there. To be honest, I don't see any."

Domeshot17
07-23-2013, 03:15 PM
Interesting Jason Stark piece on ESPN about how contending teams are viewing players on the trade market. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings130723/driving-forces-lackluster-mlb-trade-market)

"It seems like all the talk has been about Garza," said one AL executive. "And he's a good player. But he's certainly not a great player. I don't see a lot of great players out there. To be honest, I don't see any."

It is pretty much true, you don't have a Zach Greinke like player on the market this year. Garza is good, he is not an Ace. Peavy is good, he is not an ace anymore. Rios is good, he is not an elite hitter.

A lot of good players, no great ones.

EMachine10
07-23-2013, 03:19 PM
Heyman says that the Cards and Red Sox are among likely suitors for Peavy, and Bucholz has hinted he may not be back until closer to September.

TDog
07-23-2013, 03:28 PM
Only if they have good 2nd halves. If Rios tails off or Peavy gets hurt again, the off season value drops considerably.

Does Peavy coming back from an injury now have appreciably more value than Peavy coming back from an injury next spring?

Waiting until the offseason to deal with more teams with a deeper talent pool isn't any more of a gamble than gambling on prospects that are at least a couple of years away.

Fastball23
07-23-2013, 03:38 PM
Ryan (Boston)




What percent could you give that Peavy gets moved, and what kind of return should the Sox realistically expect in return?
Bruce Levine (1:07 PM)





Sox are looking for position players, namely CF, 3B and catching. Peavy should bring back as much as Garza, considering whoever acquires him has him for another year. I'd say the percentage is 100.

Comment From Frank Frank: ] Why isn't there more interest in Adam Dunn. He is really come alive after such a slow start.



Tuesday July 23, 2013 3:05 Frank
3:06
He has been solid over the last three months or so, I didn't fully realize that until now. I guess the lack of position and the salary are impediments, but he is still somewhat movable.

Tom (tinley) [via mobile]



Do you believe Alex rios will be dealt and how much value does he hold?
Bruce Levine (1:54 PM)




I think he still has a lot of value. His no-hustle play has been followed by some of his best hitting of the year. The Sox will want some outfield talent back in return for him. Pittsburgh and Texas have been interested.

Ryan (Orland Park?)




Do think Robin is going fired after the season is over?
Bruce Levine (1:49 PM)





I don't think they would fire him. I don't think they would blame him for the team's failure this year. As far as to whether he manages past next season, I'm not sure about that. But Robin told me he enjoys managing and likes the job so I don't see him fired or quitting at this point. It's amazing to me how people have flipped on him from one year to the next. Last year he was the anti-Ozzie and now people want an Ozzie-type back. It's a tough job, managing

TK (Chicago)




Isn't Alexei's trade value at an all time low right now? What kind of return do you think the Sox could get for him?
Bruce Levine (1:34 PM)





He is still considered one of the top SS in baseball. He's had a rough year defensively but look at his overall game and see how many defensive plays he makes effortlessly. You need to get top quality players back for Ramirez.
Comment From Bill Bill: ] Are the Red Sox the best fit for Peavy? Seems like a playoff rotation of Buchholz/Peavy/Lackey/Lester is pretty solid to me...



Tuesday July 23, 2013 2:57 Bill
2:58
They have a huge need for a guy like Peavy. Lester and Dempster are pitching more like back rotation guys, Buchholz needs to fight through some discomfort...Peavy would be huge. Sox have a large stash of prospects to deal from, though some wouldn't be up for discussion here.

Tragg
07-23-2013, 04:14 PM
Does Peavy coming back from an injury now have appreciably more value than Peavy coming back from an injury next spring?

Waiting until the offseason to deal with more teams with a deeper talent pool isn't any more of a gamble than gambling on prospects that are at least a couple of years away.

Most of the interested contenders have deep talent pools (Az, St L, Boston). Non-contenders won't be interested in the offseason anyway and they won't have much to trade anyway. We don't want veterans. So yes, price is better now - you get the last 2 months desperation price plus an extra year price.

Tragg
07-23-2013, 05:38 PM
I read Bruce's chat and Alexei is one of the best SS in baseball, Dunn has had a great month, Rios is extremely valuable, we know about Peavy, and we have core pitching contingent of Reed, Quintana, Santiago, Danks and Peavy, any of whom would help a contender a lot....and I ask myself:
How the hell are we one of the worst teams in baseball?

blandman
07-23-2013, 06:06 PM
I read Bruce's chat and Alexei is one of the best SS in baseball, Dunn has had a great month, Rios is extremely valuable, we know about Peavy, and we have core pitching contingent of Reed, Quintana, Santiago, Danks and Peavy, any of whom would help a contender a lot....and I ask myself:
How the hell are we one of the worst teams in baseball?

You're listening to Bruce Levine, for one. And two, you're probably overrating the value of that core pitching contingent. Rios has been pretty average/below average this year, Peavy has an extra year on his deal and he still isn't viewed as positively by buyers as Garza was, and NOBODY is trading for Dunn unless you're giving them Sale for free.

Tragg
07-23-2013, 06:16 PM
You're listening to Bruce Levine, for one. And two, you're probably overrating the value of that core pitching contingent. Rios has been pretty average/below average this year, Peavy has an extra year on his deal and he still isn't viewed as positively by buyers as Garza was, and NOBODY is trading for Dunn unless you're giving them Sale for free.

I'm not overrating the core pitching contingent, except perhaps Danks - been over that before. Santiago who is considered the weakest of the bunch, has the similar peripheral numbers Samardzija who is considered a future top of the rotation starter by some. Peavy hasn't pitched as much so that's a difference; that he isn't viewed as positively as Garza is unsupported by the facts, and irrelevant anyway. Only Texas showed significant interest in Garza. Rios hasn't been below average this year. We certainly have some gaping holes though. Still, I think a significant under-performance.

blandman
07-23-2013, 06:53 PM
I'm not overrating the core pitching contingent, except perhaps Danks - been over that before. Santiago who is considered the weakest of the bunch, has the similar peripheral numbers Samardzija who is considered a future top of the rotation starter by some. Peavy hasn't pitched as much so that's a difference; that he isn't viewed as positively as Garza is unsupported by the facts, and irrelevant anyway. Only Texas showed significant interest in Garza. Rios hasn't been below average this year. We certainly have some gaping holes though. Still, I think a significant under-performance.

Below average for what you expect out of Rios. He's hitting .270ish with a dozen homers at the deadline? Yeah, that's not one of his horrible years, but it's well off pace for a good year. Overall, he's be replacement level. What team is going to trade you anything significant for an aging replacement level outfielder with a big contract? OF COURSE the White Sox were disappointed in the offers for him. To most teams, he has negative value.

That Stark column with information and quotes from different team execs was pretty explicit that most buyers considered Garza the big fish. Disagree with it all you want, but don't say I didn't support it with evidence.

The reason Samardzija (sp?) is considered top of the rotation talent is because of his talent. First full season peripherals are pretty meaningless compared to what a guy actually throws. I'm not the biggest Samardzija fan, but comparing Santiago to him based off limited sample size is...frankly not the best way to go about comparing them. You're talking about guys that project at opposite ends of the spectrum. In 1998, John Snyder posted even better first half numbers than that. Would you have been comparing him to Kerry Wood that year? It's just as unreasonable. Santiago's stuff projects at the back end of a rotation, 3-4 absolute top. You can be happy about how he's produced in his limited time so far, but let's not act like he's the next Cy Young contender.

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 07:21 PM
Below average for what you expect out of Rios. He's hitting .270ish with a dozen homers at the deadline? Yeah, that's not one of his horrible years, but it's well off pace for a good year. Overall, he's be replacement level. What team is going to trade you anything significant for an aging replacement level outfielder with a big contract? OF COURSE the White Sox were disappointed in the offers for him. To most teams, he has negative value.

That Stark column with information and quotes from different team execs was pretty explicit that most buyers considered Garza the big fish. Disagree with it all you want, but don't say I didn't support it with evidence.

The reason Samardzija (sp?) is considered top of the rotation talent is because of his talent. First full season peripherals are pretty meaningless compared to what a guy actually throws. I'm not the biggest Samardzija fan, but comparing Santiago to him based off limited sample size is...frankly not the best way to go about comparing them. You're talking about guys that project at opposite ends of the spectrum. In 1998, John Snyder posted even better first half numbers than that. Would you have been comparing him to Kerry Wood that year? It's just as unreasonable. Santiago's stuff projects at the back end of a rotation, 3-4 absolute top. You can be happy about how he's produced in his limited time so far, but let's not act like he's the next Cy Young contender.

Jon Heyman was quoting execs saying that Peavy was the biggest fish. Does that not count? And John Snyders first half in 1998 consisted of 2 appearances and a 5.79 ERA. In his other year with the White Sox, his ERA was 5.81 in the first half.

blandman
07-23-2013, 07:24 PM
Jon Heyman was quoting execs saying that Peavy was the biggest fish. Does that not count? And John Snyders first half in 1998 consisted of 2 appearances and a 5.79 ERA.

I might be thinking of 99. One of those years he started like 6-0 over the first couple of months with an era in the 2's. Point was, he was obviously not that good, as he (like Santiago) projected as a back end/long man. Snyder was out of the league after three years.

I can't seem to find Heyman's piece quoting execs that Peavy was the #1 guy, can you link it?

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 07:27 PM
I might be thinking of 99. One of those years he started like 6-0 over the first couple of months with an era in the 2's.

I can't seem to find Heyman's piece quoting execs that Peavy was the #1 guy, can you link it?

5.81 in 1999 in the first half.

And here is Heyman
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/22829025/regardless-of-garza-a-returning-jake-peavy-may-be-the-market-star

Tragg
07-23-2013, 07:29 PM
Samardizija may have better stuff. True. But John Snyder is no example. Come on - the guy had WHIPS in the 1.4 and K rates in the 5 range. Santiago's are equivalent to Samardzija's, even if the stuff isn't.
I never saw the article to which you refer, but I saw the Heyman article that said the opposite. I also only saw one team on Garza hard - and Texas was all over him for sure (Texas' complete disinterest in Peavy perhaps can be explained, and this is purely speculation, by AJ and Peavy's non-relationship on the Sox). But I didn't see anyone else.

blandman
07-23-2013, 07:34 PM
5.81 in 1999 in the first half.

And here is Heyman
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/22829025/regardless-of-garza-a-returning-jake-peavy-may-be-the-market-star

You aren't listening to what I'm saying. :rolleyes: He started insanely one year over a similar stretch to what Santiago has. Yeah, he fell back down to Earth. I expect the same from Santiago. Perhaps not as extreme, but also perhaps as extreme. It's not like he's got a repertoire of above average pitches.

Thank you for the link.

blandman
07-23-2013, 07:37 PM
Samardizija may have better stuff. True. But John Snyder is no example. Come on - the guy had WHIPS in the 1.4 and K rates in the 5 range. Santiago's are equivalent to Samardzija's, even if the stuff isn't.
I never saw the article to which you refer, but I saw the Heyman article that said the opposite. I also only saw one team on Garza hard - and Texas was all over him for sure (Texas' complete disinterest in Peavy perhaps can be explained, and this is purely speculation, by AJ and Peavy's non-relationship on the Sox). But I didn't see anyone else.

The Braves and the Orioles were on Garza. The Orioles went with Feldman because they didn't want to pay. They were never in on Peavy. The Braves, after being linked to Garza, aren't even kicking the tires on Peavy with few other options. It's Peavy who's only been linked to one team, and that's Boston.

The Stark article is in this thread, posted it today. :D:

Huisj
07-23-2013, 07:50 PM
5.81 in 1999 in the first half.

And here is Heyman
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/22829025/regardless-of-garza-a-returning-jake-peavy-may-be-the-market-star


To put this petty argument to rest, a quick link to a page that I found in about 15 seconds:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=snydejo02&t=p&year=1999&share=3.73#16-22-sum:pitching_gamelogs

I remember people comparing his approach and stuff to Maddux during that stretch. It's weird looking back on it that it was really only 7 starts before he came back to earth. It seemed like it was more of the first half.

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 07:50 PM
You aren't listening to what I'm saying. :rolleyes: He started insanely one year over a similar stretch to what Santiago has. Yeah, he fell back down to Earth. I expect the same from Santiago. Perhaps not as extreme, but also perhaps as extreme. It's not like he's got a repertoire of above average pitches.

Thank you for the link.

He was 6-1 with a 2.00 ERA 5 weeks and 45 innings into the 1999 season and fell apart. He also fanned less than 5 per 9 innings. I am not sold on Santiago's future as a great starter, but he is far more talented than Snyder.

Huisj
07-23-2013, 07:54 PM
You aren't listening to what I'm saying. :rolleyes: He started insanely one year over a similar stretch to what Santiago has. Yeah, he fell back down to Earth. I expect the same from Santiago. Perhaps not as extreme, but also perhaps as extreme. It's not like he's got a repertoire of above average pitches.

Thank you for the link.

Santiago as a lefty with low-90s pop that gets lots of strikeouts is a whole lot different than John Snyder as a righty with 90 peak and reliance on location and movement. Snyder was like a slightly bigger Dylan Axelrod. Santiago's biggest problem isn't his stuff or his arm, it's his control.

blandman
07-23-2013, 08:09 PM
To put this petty argument to rest, a quick link to a page that I found in about 15 seconds:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=snydejo02&t=p&year=1999&share=3.73#16-22-sum:pitching_gamelogs

I remember people comparing his approach and stuff to Maddux during that stretch. It's weird looking back on it that it was really only 7 starts before he came back to earth. It seemed like it was more of the first half.

Thanks

He was 6-1 with a 2.00 ERA 5 weeks and 45 innings into the 1999 season and fell apart. He also fanned less than 5 per 9 innings. I am not sold on Santiago's future as a great starter, but he is far more talented than Snyder.

Santiago as a lefty with low-90s pop that gets lots of strikeouts is a whole lot different than John Snyder as a righty with 90 peak and reliance on location and movement. Snyder was like a slightly bigger Dylan Axelrod. Santiago's biggest problem isn't his stuff or his arm, it's his control.

I was just trying to point out the extreme positive analyzation of our guys. Santiago's different, yes, but he's still a 4/5/6 ceiling guy. Comparing him to Samardzija is an absolute reach.

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 08:20 PM
Thanks





I was just trying to point out the extreme positive analyzation of our guys. Santiago's different, yes, but he's still a 4/5/6 ceiling guy. Comparing him to Samardzija is an absolute reach.

When Samardzija was Santiago's age, he wasn't any more successful than Santiago. I have a feeling you would think a lot more of Hector if he were a Cub or a Tiger. Then his k rate, batting average against, ERA, would all come into play, but because he is a White Sox, for some reason you have to let everyone know he will fail.

SCCWS
07-23-2013, 08:25 PM
When Samardzija was Santiago's age, he wasn't any more successful than Santiago. I have a feeling you would think a lot more of Hector if he were a Cub or a Tiger. Then his k rate, batting average against, ERA, would all come into play, but because he is a White Sox, for some reason you have to let everyone know he will fail.

Cub fans don't like White Sox players

blandman
07-23-2013, 08:32 PM
When Samardzija was Santiago's age, he wasn't any more successful than Santiago. I have a feeling you would think a lot more of Hector if he were a Cub or a Tiger. Then his k rate, batting average against, ERA, would all come into play, but because he is a White Sox, for some reason you have to let everyone know he will fail.

Or, you know, it could come from the fact that Samardzija was a first round pick, throws harder, has better control, and has better command. He has a four seam fastball he can place anywhere and is one of the few guys to get rise out of it. He has two breaking pitches, a slider and a splitter, that are both plus pitches that have a dramatic velocity differential from his fastballs. He can throw both for a strike or get people to chase them out of the zone pretty much at will. And he throws a cutter around the same speed than Santiago throws straight four seamers.

Knock this nonsense off. I don't dislike Santiago, but dude isn't a top pitcher. Calling into question my loyalties because I won't look at things with rose colored glasses is pathetic. Santiago isn't Samardzija, or even close to it.

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 08:35 PM
Or, you know, it could come from the fact that Samardzija was a first round pick, throws harder, has better control, and has better command. He has a four seam fastball he can place anywhere and is one of the few guys to get rise out of it. He has two breaking pitches, a slider and a splitter, that are both plus pitches that have a dramatic velocity differential from his fastballs. He can throw both for a strike or get people to chase them out of the zone pretty much at will. And he throws a cutter around the same speed than Santiago throws straight four seamers.

Knock this nonsense off. I don't dislike Santiago, but dude isn't a top pitcher. Calling into question my loyalties because I won't look at things with rose colored glasses is pathetic. Santiago isn't Samardzija, or even close to it.
If he can put the ball anywhere, why is his ERA 3.91 this year and 4.05 for his career? Why does where someone is drafted trump actual results?

blandman
07-23-2013, 08:42 PM
If he can put the ball anywhere, why is his ERA 3.91 this year and 4.05 for his career? Why does where someone is drafted trump actual results?

Less than half a season worth of starts, many of which are first time through lineups, is the sample size you're arguing for a guy with essentially two pitches, one being a straight fastball he has trouble locating and the other a trick pitch screwball that isn't even plus. Hitters just haven't seen one in a while, unless he improves it they're going to catch on. :rolleyes:

If you wanted to make a case that one of our young guys would be more than a back end rotation guy, you're picking the wrong kid.

Before someone chimes in about his sinker/splitter whatever that is or the occassional cutter, he barely throws it and it's garbage.

SCCWS
07-23-2013, 08:52 PM
Less than half a season worth of starts, many of which are first time through lineups, is the sample size you're arguing for a guy with essentially two pitches, one being a straight fastball he has trouble locating and the other a trick pitch screwball that isn't even plus. Hitters just haven't seen one in a while, unless he improves it they're going to catch on. :rolleyes:

If you wanted to make a case that one of our young guys would be more than a back end rotation guy, you're picking the wrong kid.

Before someone chimes in about his sinker/splitter whatever that is or the occassional cutter, he barely throws it and it's garbage.

Santiago will be a back end rotation guy with the White Sox since they have good starters. But he would be an ace for the Cubs now that Garza is gone.

blandman
07-23-2013, 08:56 PM
Santiago will be a back end rotation guy with the White Sox since they have good starters. But he would be an ace for the Cubs now that Garza is gone.

:thud:

I give up.

CoopaLoop
07-23-2013, 08:58 PM
Santiago will be a back end rotation guy with the White Sox since they have good starters. But he would be an ace for the Cubs now that Garza is gone.

Where a guy profiles has absolutely nothing to do with the rotation he is a part of.

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 09:31 PM
Less than half a season worth of starts, many of which are first time through lineups, is the sample size you're arguing for a guy with essentially two pitches, one being a straight fastball he has trouble locating and the other a trick pitch screwball that isn't even plus. Hitters just haven't seen one in a while, unless he improves it they're going to catch on. :rolleyes:

If you wanted to make a case that one of our young guys would be more than a back end rotation guy, you're picking the wrong kid.

Before someone chimes in about his sinker/splitter whatever that is or the occassional cutter, he barely throws it and it's garbage.

He has 170 career innings. It isn't his first time around the league. But let me get this straight. Samardjiza has far better stuff, way better command, is basically unhittable, all Santiago has is a straight fastball and a garbage pitch. Explain to me how Santiago allows fewer baserunners, a lower batting average against, a lower ERA and a higher K rate all while pitching in the AL.

blandman
07-23-2013, 09:44 PM
He has 170 career innings. It isn't his first time around the league. But let me get this straight. Samardjiza has far better stuff, way better command, is basically unhittable, all Santiago has is a straight fastball and a garbage pitch. Explain to me how Santiago allows fewer baserunners, a lower batting average against, a lower ERA and a higher K rate all while pitching in the AL.

Because he spent most of his time last year as a reliever, and spent significant time this year doing that as well. He's only made 12 starts this year. Being basically two pitch pitcher, one being a trick pitch, is way more effective in relief and spot starts. He walks more than 4 batters per nine and based on his career numbers would give up in the neighborhood of 30 longballs in a 35 start season. He's going to be a high 4, low 5 era pitcher if he's allowed to start exclusively all year.

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 09:53 PM
Because he spent most of his time last year as a reliever, and spent significant time this year doing that as well. He's only made 12 starts this year. Being basically two pitch pitcher, one being a trick pitch, is way more effective in relief and spot starts. He walks more than 4 batters per nine and based on his career numbers would give up in the neighborhood of 30 longballs in a 35 start season. He's going to be a high 4, low 5 era pitcher if he's allowed to start exclusively all year.

How was Smardzija after 12 starts? I will give you a hint, not as good as Santiago. Santiago's ERA is under 3.00 as a starter. Not bad for a guy with his walk rate who supposedly only features a straight fastball and garbage trick pitch. You haven't been able to explain his K rate.

balke
07-23-2013, 09:56 PM
He has 170 career innings. It isn't his first time around the league. But let me get this straight. Samardjiza has far better stuff, way better command, is basically unhittable, all Santiago has is a straight fastball and a garbage pitch. Explain to me how Santiago allows fewer baserunners, a lower batting average against, a lower ERA and a higher K rate all while pitching in the AL.

First, you guys are comparing a lefty and a righty.

Second, Santiago has played half the season as a reliever. 131IP (Shark) up against 87IP (Santiago). Pretty useless comparison of players really.

I do think there are often times the best hyped pitchers remains hyped though, while some guys just go out and get results.

dickallen15
07-23-2013, 10:10 PM
First, you guys are comparing a lefty and a righty.

Second, Santiago has played half the season as a reliever. 131IP (Shark) up against 87IP (Santiago). Pretty useless comparison of players really.

I do think there are often times the best hyped pitchers remains hyped though, while some guys just go out and get results.

And at the same stage in their careers Santiago outperformed him. Samardjiza was a relievee for several seasons and only has about 300 innings as a starter.

WhiffleBall
07-24-2013, 04:14 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 27m (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/360139004785598464)
CWS have exchanged trade ideas/offers on Peavy, but teams say they are unsure about whether they want to keep him for '14. Price tag high.

kittle42
07-24-2013, 04:21 PM
FOX Sports' Jon Morosi reports that the Rangers have expressed interest in Alejandro De Aza.

Texas is also courting White Sox outfielder Alex Rios. De Aza, 29, is batting .275/.332/.437 with 12 homers and 11 stolen bases in 93 games this season for Chicago. He carries more years of contractual control than Rios but Rios has the better offensive track record. As always, it's going to come down to the asking price.

Foulke You
07-24-2013, 04:23 PM
FOX Sports' Jon Morosi reports that the Rangers have expressed interest in Alejandro De Aza.

Texas is also courting White Sox outfielder Alex Rios. De Aza, 29, is batting .275/.332/.437 with 12 homers and 11 stolen bases in 93 games this season for Chicago. He carries more years of contractual control than Rios but Rios has the better offensive track record. As always, it's going to come down to the asking price.
More info on the De Aza/Rios to the Rangers rumors:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/white-sox-rangers-discussing-alex-rios.html

Tragg
07-24-2013, 04:23 PM
FOX Sports' Jon Morosi reports that the Rangers have expressed interest in Alejandro De Aza.

Texas is also courting White Sox outfielder Alex Rios. De Aza, 29, is batting .275/.332/.437 with 12 homers and 11 stolen bases in 93 games this season for Chicago. He carries more years of contractual control than Rios but Rios has the better offensive track record. As always, it's going to come down to the asking price.

I know he struggles defensively but I wouldn't give him away. 275/337/437 is pretty good for this team.

Foulke You
07-24-2013, 04:55 PM
I know he struggles defensively but I wouldn't give him away. 275/337/437 is pretty good for this team.
He also has made 10 outs on the basepaths this year and has a very high K rate for a leadoff man. I agree that he shouldn't be given away and for this team, his numbers are solid. However, I do support moving him off the roster if Hahn can swing it. I think it will be an important step towards re-making this team. The Sox need to improve the baseball IQ, improve the defense, and cut down on a strikeout heavy lineup. Removing De Aza from the mix is a start towards improving all three items.

soltrain21
07-24-2013, 05:48 PM
I know he struggles defensively but I wouldn't give him away. 275/337/437 is pretty good for this team.

Well sure, but this year's team doesn't matter.

Tragg
07-24-2013, 05:52 PM
Well sure, but this year's team doesn't matter.
It's pretty good for most of the teams we've had over the last several years.

And K rates matter least at leadoff. It truly doesn't matter how you make the out when leading off.

dickallen15
07-24-2013, 06:18 PM
It's pretty good for most of the teams we've had over the last several years.

And K rates matter least at leadoff. It truly doesn't matter how you make the out when leading off.

That's assuming a couple of things

1. Every AB where he struck out, had he not struck out, he still would have made an out.
2. None of those "outs" will be errors.

russ99
07-24-2013, 06:38 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 27m (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/360139004785598464)
CWS have exchanged trade ideas/offers on Peavy, but teams say they are unsure about whether they want to keep him for '14. Price tag high.

Aka: The Sox need to send cash for next year in order to get a better return.

Lemon44
07-24-2013, 06:57 PM
De Aza bats leadoff for this team because he's the only one who can.

Imagine him in the seven or eight hole for the Rangers.

#1swisher
07-24-2013, 07:05 PM
Danny Knobler ‏@DannyKnoblerCBS (https://twitter.com/DannyKnoblerCBS) 8m (https://twitter.com/DannyKnoblerCBS/status/360186616528113665)

Scouts watching White Sox say Alex Rios is playing with zero energy. Even so, @JonHeymanCBS (https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS) says Rangers interested.
(http://t.co/bfIIdVpcBt)
http://cbsprt.co/1bOKgHu (http://t.co/bfIIdVpcBt)

shingo10
07-24-2013, 07:07 PM
FOX Sports' Jon Morosi reports that the Rangers have expressed interest in Alejandro De Aza.

Texas is also courting White Sox outfielder Alex Rios. De Aza, 29, is batting .275/.332/.437 with 12 homers and 11 stolen bases in 93 games this season for Chicago. He carries more years of contractual control than Rios but Rios has the better offensive track record. As always, it's going to come down to the asking price.

Surprised it has taken this long for his name to pop up. His RBI total for a leadoff hitter is very impressive.

Brian26
07-24-2013, 07:19 PM
Danny Knobler ‏@DannyKnoblerCBS (https://twitter.com/DannyKnoblerCBS) 8m (https://twitter.com/DannyKnoblerCBS/status/360186616528113665)

Scouts watching White Sox say Alex Rios is playing with zero energy. Even so, @JonHeymanCBS (https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS) says Rangers interested.
(http://t.co/bfIIdVpcBt)
http://cbsprt.co/1bOKgHu (http://t.co/bfIIdVpcBt)

Don't need to be a scout to see this. Dude can't even go after foul balls down the line.

Stanley
07-24-2013, 07:24 PM
Aka: The Sox need to send cash for next year in order to get a better return.

I'm glad someone brought this up because I never thought that 2 years at just under 30 mil for Peavy was all that close to a bargain, like Jake and others were so willing to proclaim. Given his injury history, and the degree of severity of his lat injury, I even feel like the Sox may have got hosed a bit. I know there are reports out there that other teams wanted Peavy in the offseason, but how much of that is agent talk and how much was actually GM's wanting to give him a 3-4 year deal or more than 30 mil for 2 years is anyone's guess.

LITTLE NELL
07-24-2013, 07:38 PM
Don't need to be a scout to see this. Dude can't even go after foul balls down the line.

It's a shame because the talent is there.

SoxSpeed22
07-24-2013, 07:55 PM
Personally, I think Rios will get better once all is said and done with the trade deadline. Robin said sometime earlier that Rios was getting over-anxious with the trade rumors, judging by Rios' actions over the last few years, I agree with Robin. These things are probably weighing on him, and he's feeling the effects of it.

Tragg
07-24-2013, 08:42 PM
Personally, I think Rios will get better once all is said and done with the trade deadline. Robin said sometime earlier that Rios was getting over-anxious with the trade rumors, judging by Rios' actions over the last few years, I agree with Robin. These things are probably weighing on him, and he's feeling the effects of it.
Dozen of players are traded every year. But Rios needs his tender feelings coddled.

Aka: The Sox need to send cash for next year in order to get a better return.

And they need to be willing to do that if they are serious.

blandman
07-24-2013, 08:50 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 27m (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/360139004785598464)
CWS have exchanged trade ideas/offers on Peavy, but teams say they are unsure about whether they want to keep him for '14. Price tag high.

I was assured by WSI that this was not so. Peavy is a bonifide ace! Surely this only speaks to the poor quality of general manager across the league.

Tragg
07-24-2013, 08:59 PM
I was assured by WSI that this was not so. Peavy is a bonifide ace! Surely this only speaks to the poor quality of general manager across the league.
Yet another quote from a writer that doesn't prove your point.

#1swisher
07-24-2013, 09:02 PM
Scott Merkin
Peavy trade discussions include Red Sox Middlebrooks.
Hahn also could keep Peavy, a leader on the pitching staff, and Rios, while trying to rebuild the roster in other areas. There's no financial necessity for Hahn to move these higher-salaried veterans.
At least 10 scouts already on hand Wednesday at U.S. Cellular Field.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130724&content_id=54622860&notebook_id=54632386&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws

#1swisher
07-24-2013, 09:05 PM
David Schuster ‏@Schumouse (https://twitter.com/Schumouse) 22m (https://twitter.com/Schumouse/status/360213220386017283)

Tim Hudson hurt in the Braves game TONIGHT.....Atlanta already with a scout here for the Peavy game tomorrow.

Brian26
07-24-2013, 09:08 PM
I was assured by WSI that this was not so. Peavy is a bonifide ace! Surely this only speaks to the poor quality of general manager across the league.

Keep trolling. You are asking for a vacation. It's "bona fide" also.

Brian26
07-24-2013, 09:10 PM
Scott Merkin
Peavy trade discussions include Red Sox Middlebrooks.
Hahn also could keep Peavy, a leader on the pitching staff, and Rios, while trying to rebuild the roster in other areas. There's no financial necessity for Hahn to move these higher-salaried veterans.
At least 10 scouts already on hand Wednesday at U.S. Cellular Field.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130724&content_id=54622860&notebook_id=54632386&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws

That's funny considering that this time last year, the Sox were set to aquire Youkilis from Boston because Middlebrooks was waiting in the wings to take over for him.

Tragg
07-24-2013, 09:13 PM
Scott Merkin
Peavy trade discussions include Red Sox Middlebrooks.
Hahn also could keep Peavy, a leader on the pitching staff, and Rios, while trying to rebuild the roster in other areas. There's no financial necessity for Hahn to move these higher-salaried veterans.
At least 10 scouts already on hand Wednesday at U.S. Cellular Field.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130724&content_id=54622860&notebook_id=54632386&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws

Middlebrooks looks like a big bust. He also Ks too much and rarely walks...exactly what we don't need. Pass on him as a centerpiece for Peavy.

blandman
07-24-2013, 09:25 PM
Keep trolling. You are asking for a vacation. It's "bona fide" also.

Peavy is not an ace, was not the best guy on the market, will not net us a package of prospects close to what Garza got, and it's not like I'm the only one saying it. I so sick and tired of being called a troll or even a cubs fan for stating my opinion, which is an opinion being mentioned nationally by several people every day. Yeah, that last comment is sarcastic. But with the way people are ****ting on me, I'm gonna say it with a little attitude. Because I'm not the one who's wrong.

Tragg
07-24-2013, 09:31 PM
Just save the nose rubbing til after the trade...and then we'll know who's right.
In the meantime, what does Atlanta (team of interest #3, 4 if you count Oakland, which I don't) have in the way of prospects, as they seem to be in the game now.

blandman
07-24-2013, 09:33 PM
Just save the nose rubbing til after the trade...and then we'll know who's right.
In the meantime, what does Atlanta (team of interest #3, 4 if you count Oakland, which I don't) have in the way of prospects, as they seem to be in the game now.

Jose Peraza, a low A shortstop, might be a match

DirtySox
07-24-2013, 09:53 PM
Jose Peraza, a low A shortstop, might be a match

The Braves farm isn't very good currently. Especially position prospect-wise. Boston/St Louis/Arizona have the best matches.

Standing Ovation
07-24-2013, 09:55 PM
Hopefully the Braves will be willing to overpay, for the somewhat local kid who grew up watching Maddux and Glavine. It would make for a feel good story.

LoveYourSuit
07-24-2013, 10:13 PM
The Hudson situation looks like a lay-up for Hahn.

He better not **** this up.

DirtySox
07-24-2013, 10:30 PM
The Hudson situation looks like a lay-up for Hahn.

He better not **** this up.

He better be using it for leverage. The Braves farm is not pretty. Only one ATL prospect made the Sickels recent top 75, and it was Lucas Sims at 65.

CHISOXFAN13
07-24-2013, 10:31 PM
Brandon Beachy will make his final rehab start tomorrow.

People won't sure where he would fit in. They sure do now.

Tragg
07-24-2013, 10:43 PM
He better be using it for leverage. The Braves farm is not pretty. Only one ATL prospect made the Sickels recent top 75, and it was Lucas Sims at 65.

frankly, it doesn't look to me like any of these teams want to give us top 50s. Braves are fine if they'll pay with a few top 150s (if they have those). WE can take pitching prospects. May have to move one of our starters in the offseason for some position players.

DirtySox
07-24-2013, 10:51 PM
frankly, it doesn't look to me like any of these teams want to give us top 50s. Braves are fine if they'll pay with a few top 150s (if they have those). WE can take pitching prospects. May have to move one of our starters in the offseason for some position players.

I think you are undervaluing Peavy in a seller's market with not much out there. Jake has an additional year after this and will almost assuredly garner a qualifying offer which equates to an additional draft pick immediately after the first round. The notion that Jake is going to only net you prospects in the 150's is silly. Don't believe the Bland talk. Arizona, Boston, St Louis, Oakland, and Atlanta all have interest here. Value will be had.

WhiteSox5187
07-24-2013, 11:01 PM
I think you are undervaluing Peavy in a seller's market with not much out there. Jake has an additional year after this and will almost assuredly garner a qualifying offer which equates to an additional draft pick immediately after the first round. The notion that Jake is going to only net you prospects in the 150's is silly. Don't believe the Bland talk. Arizona, Boston, St Louis, Oakland, and Atlanta all have interest here. Value will be had.

Hopefully but Buster Olney said today that a lot of teams think that Peavy is too expensive. I don't know if they mean the White Sox asking price for him or the contract.

DirtySox
07-24-2013, 11:09 PM
Hopefully but Buster Olney said today that a lot of teams think that Peavy is too expensive. I don't know if they mean the White Sox asking price for him or the contract.

It's asking price, as it should be.

#1swisher
07-24-2013, 11:09 PM
Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier (https://twitter.com/alexspeier) 3m (https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/360248365142908929)

Source: Red Sox and White Sox have not had trade discussions about Middlebrooks
(http://t.co/UXSF2swUsu)
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/07/24/with-jose-iglesias-struggling-red-sox-dilemma-trade-dilemmas-for-third-base-deepens/ (http://t.co/UXSF2swUsu)


Danny Knobler ‏@DannyKnoblerCBS (https://twitter.com/DannyKnoblerCBS)[/URL]

(https://twitter.com/DannyKnoblerCBS/status/360200554586185729)
The Royals could be deadline buyers and sellers. They've been watching right fielders, including Rios. http://cbsprt.co/1bj6Okn (http://t.co/MLFLrGHBo6)

(http://t.co/MLFLrGHBo6)
The Braves have had interest in Peavy before, and nearly traded for him five years ago.

[URL="http://t.co/MLFLrGHBo6"]http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/danny-knobler/22875835/braves-need-more-consistent-hitting-but-are-looking-for-pitching
(http://t.co/MLFLrGHBo6)

Mr. Jinx
07-25-2013, 04:49 AM
The Royals could be deadline buyers and sellers. They've been watching right fielders, including Rios. http://cbsprt.co/1bj6Okn (http://t.co/MLFLrGHBo6)

(http://t.co/MLFLrGHBo6)


The chance to dump this bum and to further end any chance of the Royals contending in the near or far future? Sign me up!

SCCWS
07-25-2013, 08:09 AM
Jessie Crane thinks Boston would be a good spot

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/07/16/jesse-crain-thinks-red-sox-would-be-fun-to-play-for/


Middlebrooks is a gamble. Strikes out a lot in his time in majors. Has good power, average fielder with above average arm. Only 25.

Golden Sox
07-25-2013, 08:37 AM
I heard SCORE announcer David Schuester last night say he thinks Hahn is going to make numerous trades by next week. As much as I don't like Schuester, I hope he's right for once. I'm actually worried that Hahn won't make any major trades at all. Maybe these other teams don't want most of our players who Hahn wants to move. I hope Hahn does something major before the deadline otherwise it's going to be a long last 2 months of the season. Does anybody really want to see these same White Sox players for 2 more months? I'm actually beginning to think that's a real possibilty.

Standing Ovation
07-25-2013, 08:55 AM
I think Hahn will be forced into making moves. Demand seems to far exceed supply this year. This ****ty season came at the perfect time.

dwalteroo
07-25-2013, 09:41 AM
The Sox probably have some of the best pieces to move on the market in a number of positions (RF, SS, SP, relievers), are totally out of contention and can't come back with this same lineup next year. I'd be shocked if Rios, Peavy, Ramirez, Crane, maybe DeAza - or some combination of these - aren't gone by next week.

Tragg
07-25-2013, 10:36 AM
I'm a little surprised a couple of the minor pieces haven't been moved, although it's good to have Alexei for Peavy's second audition.

cws05champ
07-25-2013, 11:14 AM
The Sox probably have some of the best pieces to move on the market in a number of positions (RF, SS, SP, relievers), are totally out of contention and can't come back with this same lineup next year. I'd be shocked if Rios, Peavy, Ramirez, Crane, maybe DeAza - or some combination of these - aren't gone by next week.
I would not shed a tear at all if these guys are gone by next week....as long as we got some decent talent back in return.

bestkosher
07-25-2013, 11:21 AM
I understand most of them. DeAza to me is a piece you keep. He is still fairly young hits decently and is low cost. I know we may get something for him but nothing that great that will warrant him being traded unless he is part of a multiplayer deal.

WhiffleBall
07-25-2013, 11:41 AM
Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 47s (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/360439121782644736)
Jesse Crain played catch and apparently it didn't go so well. No bullpen today.

Not good.

eriqjaffe
07-25-2013, 11:45 AM
Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 47s (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/360439121782644736)
Jesse Crain played catch and apparently it didn't go so well. No bullpen today.

Not good.Well, to be fair, very few people on this club are able to catch a baseball.

Fastball23
07-25-2013, 11:48 AM
I wonder if the Sox will trade Reed and Nate Jones.

kittle42
07-25-2013, 11:53 AM
I understand most of them. DeAza to me is a piece you keep. He is still fairly young hits decently and is low cost. I know we may get something for him but nothing that great that will warrant him being traded unless he is part of a multiplayer deal.

Only if you get a lineup where he can hit 7th or 8th. He's also a defensive liability.

Chez
07-25-2013, 11:59 AM
Only if you get a lineup where he can hit 7th or 8th. He's also a defensive liability.

The White Sox lead the free world in bone-headed plays. De Aza is the team leader in that category.

PalehosePlanet
07-25-2013, 12:04 PM
Only if you get a lineup where he can hit 7th or 8th. He's also a defensive liability.

True, but you have to look at the fact that his production is excellent for someone making just 2 mil a year. We all know his shortcomings yes, but there is a bang for the buck here that we're not getting from anyone else in our everyday lineup. I wouldn't move him unless it truly sweetens a deal for us.

PalehosePlanet
07-25-2013, 12:30 PM
I was assured by WSI that this was not so. Peavy is a bonifide ace! Surely this only speaks to the poor quality of general manager across the league.

Or it could be just posturing by the other GM's? Two or three GM's using Buster to drive the price down? A little media manipulation?

Also, here is a fangraphs article that explains that WSI are not the only Peavy over Garza opinions out there:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jake-peavy-is-not-matt-garza-might-be-better/

JB98
07-25-2013, 01:10 PM
I wonder if the Sox will trade Reed and Nate Jones.

If the price is right, they will.

But I don't think guys who are young and cost-controlled are atop their list as far as players they are looking to move.

Tragg
07-25-2013, 04:59 PM
What to make of this?

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 1h
Keep hearing White Sox need pitching for Peavy, as 5 of their 6 best prospects are position players.

Fastball23
07-25-2013, 05:22 PM
Kenny Williams scouting the Pirates farm team

http://www.themlbnation.com/2013/07/the-desperation-is-increasing-as-pirates-host-talks-with-the-cubs-and-white-sox/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#

kittle42
07-25-2013, 05:28 PM
What to make of this?

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 1h
Keep hearing White Sox need pitching for Peavy, as 5 of their 6 best prospects are position players.

The Sox' best prospects isn't a hard level to reach.

PalehosePlanet
07-25-2013, 05:31 PM
What to make of this?

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 1h
Keep hearing White Sox need pitching for Peavy, as 5 of their 6 best prospects are position players.

Honestly, so long as we're talking good prospects, I'm okay w/getting pitching or position players in return.

Mr. Jinx
07-25-2013, 05:36 PM
What to make of this?

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 1h
Keep hearing White Sox need pitching for Peavy, as 5 of their 6 best prospects are position players.

Ha ha ha ha! That's really sad.

EMachine10
07-25-2013, 05:40 PM
What to make of this?

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 1h
Keep hearing White Sox need pitching for Peavy, as 5 of their 6 best prospects are position players.
I still have more faith in their ability to develop pitchers and find pitchers on their own. Give me more position players now.

Tragg
07-25-2013, 05:48 PM
What Gammons says is partially true: most of our best prospects likely are position players. Our last 3 first round choices, and the 2nd from last year makes 4. Not sure who the 5th is - perhaps the guy we just got from Boston. But they are years away.

RCWHITESOX
07-25-2013, 06:38 PM
Peavy is not an ace, was not the best guy on the market, will not net us a package of prospects close to what Garza got, and it's not like I'm the only one saying it. I so sick and tired of being called a troll or even a cubs fan for stating my opinion, which is an opinion being mentioned nationally by several people every day. Yeah, that last comment is sarcastic. But with the way people are ****ting on me, I'm gonna say it with a little attitude. Because I'm not the one who's wrong.

Peavy is a number 1 or a 2 at worst. He also is a proven competitor game in and game out. Your entitled to your opinion but so am I. Since I am not a scout or GM and I am sure you are not either; will just wait and see what Peavy goes for in the trade market. Also I believe that the Peavy will have better numbers than Garza ends up with at the end of their careers; that's just my opinion.

SoxSpeed22
07-25-2013, 06:44 PM
What Gammons says is partially true: most of our best prospects likely are position players. Our last 3 first round choices, and the 2nd from last year makes 4. Not sure who the 5th is - perhaps the guy we just got from Boston. But they are years away.I agree, Gammons is not incorrect in this, since we did use plenty of resources on position players over the last few years. I don't have that much faith in their ability to develop position players, but they have the most overall talent out of the farm system.
Just off the top of my head, Johnson, Thompson, Anderson, Hawkins and Zapata (recent Dominican signing) are probably the 5 guys he's thinking of, with Johnson being the only pitcher.

Brian26
07-25-2013, 06:51 PM
Kenny Williams scouting the Pirates farm team

http://www.themlbnation.com/2013/07/the-desperation-is-increasing-as-pirates-host-talks-with-the-cubs-and-white-sox/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#

This scares me a bit considering Kenny's last big scouting foray netted Tyler Flowers from the Arizona Fall League.

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2013, 07:54 PM
This scares me a bit considering Kenny's last big scouting foray netted Tyler Flowers from the Arizona Fall League.

And traded away a very reliable arm in Javy.

Brian26
07-25-2013, 08:06 PM
And traded away a very reliable arm in Javy.

I didn't mind getting rid of Javy after the way he ended of the 2008 season. In so many ways, Javy was like the pitching equivalent of Rios. Loads of talent, ****ty attitude.

Harry Potter
07-25-2013, 08:16 PM
And traded away a very reliable arm in Javy.

Until the 6th inning rolled around...

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2013, 08:23 PM
And traded away a very reliable arm in Javy.

I didn't mind getting rid of Javy after the way he ended of the 2008 season. In so many ways, Javy was like the pitching equivalent of Rios. Loads of talent, ****ty attitude.

Yea, Javy had to go after 2008. That statement he made in September with the White Sox trailing by half a game about going to his house in Puerto Rico pretty much sealed the deal. At one point in September in a game against the Indians, Javy was choking as per usual and when Cooper came out to visit him Javy could be seen yelling at Cooper and AJ.

dickallen15
07-25-2013, 08:33 PM
As to the internet reports KW was spotted in Altoona, if he was, it wasn't to scout. Altoona has not played at home since last Saturday and won't be returning until the 30th.

Mr. Jinx
07-25-2013, 08:41 PM
I was so disappointed when the Sox got rid of Javy, I made a killing betting on games he played. If it was meaningless, he was the second coming of Cy Young (winning style). If it mattered he was the second coming of Cy Young (losing style).

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2013, 08:52 PM
I didn't mind getting rid of Javy after the way he ended of the 2008 season. In so many ways, Javy was like the pitching equivalent of Rios. Loads of talent, ****ty attitude.

Yeah, but you don't give up an arm like for a pile of ****.

Mr. Jinx
07-25-2013, 09:10 PM
Yeah, but you don't give up an arm like for a pile of ****.

We did with Thorton.

dickallen15
07-25-2013, 09:28 PM
Peavy is not an ace, was not the best guy on the market, will not net us a package of prospects close to what Garza got, and it's not like I'm the only one saying it. I so sick and tired of being called a troll or even a cubs fan for stating my opinion, which is an opinion being mentioned nationally by several people every day. Yeah, that last comment is sarcastic. But with the way people are ****ting on me, I'm gonna say it with a little attitude. Because I'm not the one who's wrong.

Your boy Keith Law earlier tonight on AM 1000 said Peavy should net the White Sox "a much bigger haul" than the Cubs got for Garza.

gr8mexico
07-25-2013, 11:09 PM
Your boy Keith Law earlier tonight on AM 1000 said Peavy should net the White Sox "a much bigger haul" than the Cubs got for Garza.

From his mouth to god's ears because this team needs it.

Tragg
07-25-2013, 11:35 PM
I didn't mind getting rid of Javy after the way he ended of the 2008 season. In so many ways, Javy was like the pitching equivalent of Rios. Loads of talent, ****ty attitude.

good comparison. It was just a poorly executed trade. Swisher needed to go to...just more poor execution.

The Immigrant
07-26-2013, 09:58 AM
good comparison. It was just a poorly executed trade. Swisher needed to go to...just more poor execution.

Well, both of those guys are examples of good talent that wasn't maximized by the organization. Swisher in particular.

kittle42
07-26-2013, 10:06 AM
We did with Thorton.

No comparison. Thornton 2-4 years ago, you'd have a point.

soltrain21
07-26-2013, 10:51 AM
There are not even any good rumors at this point. THIS IS BORING.

Fastball23
07-26-2013, 11:37 AM
I'm curious why Seattle was scouting Peavy yesterday.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/jake-peavy-rumors-friday.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I'd love to get Mike Zunino or Taj Walker for Peavy and cash.

DSpivack
07-26-2013, 12:29 PM
I'm curious why Seattle was scouting Peavy yesterday.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/jake-peavy-rumors-friday.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I'd love to get Mike Zunino or Taj Walker for Peavy and cash.

I doubt they trade Walker, Hultzen or Paxton for pretty much anyone.

DirtySouthsider
07-26-2013, 12:33 PM
Per Rotoworld, the Blue Jays made some calls on Gordon Beckham earlier this year.

LITTLE NELL
07-26-2013, 12:35 PM
As to the internet reports KW was spotted in Altoona, if he was, it wasn't to scout. Altoona has not played at home since last Saturday and won't be returning until the 30th.

Maybe he wanted to see the famous Horseshoe Curve.

Tragg
07-26-2013, 03:15 PM
No reason to trade Beckham. He plays good D at 2nd. We need more good D up the middle.

SoxSpeed22
07-26-2013, 03:33 PM
Seattle was mentioned as a potential buyer, maybe they're looking for pieces for next year, like the sox did with Freddy Garcia.

kittle42
07-26-2013, 04:45 PM
Oh, well - Crain going nowhere. Shut down.

"The decision was made after Crain skipped a scheduled throwing session on Thursday. He plans to ramp things up slowly, so look for his absence to stretch well into August. The veteran right-hander likely would have been a nice trade chip for Chicago if he was healthy, but that can obviously be ruled out at this point."

Stanley
07-26-2013, 05:47 PM
Was this already mentioned? Rios invoked his ntc so he wouldn't have to be a Yankee. Saw it on BleacherReport, but Joel Sherman tweeted it.

DuckSnort
07-26-2013, 08:32 PM
Was this already mentioned? Rios invoked his ntc so he wouldn't have to be a Yankee. Saw it on BleacherReport, but Joel Sherman tweeted it.

And Rios denied it vehemently. Said he would welcome going there if that was the case.

Brian26
07-26-2013, 09:30 PM
Was this already mentioned? Rios invoked his ntc so he wouldn't have to be a Yankee. Saw it on BleacherReport, but Joel Sherman tweeted it.

Could this guy be any more unlikable?

getonbckthr
07-26-2013, 10:51 PM
Rios isn't mentally strong enough to be a Yankee...

Tragg
07-26-2013, 10:53 PM
Good or bad?

MLB Insider Live ‏@mlbinsiderlive 5h
#Cardinals willing to offer Matt Adams, Keith Butler, and Michael Blazek to #WhiteSox in Peavy/Ramirez deal.

JermaineDye05
07-26-2013, 10:57 PM
Good or bad?

MLB Insider Live ‏@mlbinsiderlive 5h
#Cardinals willing to offer Matt Adams, Keith Butler, and Michael Blazek to #WhiteSox in Peavy/Ramirez deal.

I have trouble believing that account. I mean, it has less followers than I do.

Stanley
07-27-2013, 09:16 AM
Could this guy be any more unlikable?

I'm having a hard time defending Rios lately, even if that Sherman tweet was untrue. I haven't seen where he supposedly denied it, though, either.

He's the most talented OF'er out there that's available at a reasonable price, it's too bad his Ayn Rand-iness has come out during the trade deadline. I've still grown to like him over the years he's been a WS, and would like to see him succeed in a Pirates uni (maybe Alexei, too) if we got a good return, and because I want to see the Pirates make the damn post season already.

@ JermaineDye05, is that hard to believe because it favors the Sox or the other way around?

Tragg
07-27-2013, 10:02 AM
@ JermaineDye05, is that hard to believe because it favors the Sox or the other way around?

I think it's a good trade for the Cardinals...they give up a back-up first baseman and 2 C prospects, who figure as relievers.

I wonder if it's a good deal for the Sox. I think not, really. I'll do Adams for Alexei, though.

PalehosePlanet
07-27-2013, 11:18 AM
I think it's a good trade for the Cardinals...they give up a back-up first baseman and 2 C prospects, who figure as relievers.

I wonder if it's a good deal for the Sox. I think not, really. I'll do Adams for Alexei, though.

I'd love to have Matt Adams, the big boy can rake -- reminds me of Billy Butler. But the other two bullpen guys? No thanks. Personally, I'd rather take a chance on a couple of single A starters, B- or C+ grade types that might not ever make it, than MLB ready bullpen arms.

DirtySox
07-27-2013, 01:11 PM
I have trouble believing that account. I mean, it has less followers than I do.

Yep. It's a bull**** account.

Fastball23
07-27-2013, 01:32 PM
National writer: Rangers might be interested in trading for Chicago White Sox first baseman Paul Konerko: http://dallasne.ws/1bvfOmI (http://t.co/rMbtvMImYx)

#1swisher
07-27-2013, 03:27 PM
Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo (https://twitter.com/pgammo) 2h (https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/361190449995726848)

If what GMs say the pricetags on Peavy, Norris, Lee and Santana hold, Wednesday is going to be very quiet.

Stanley
07-28-2013, 01:05 AM
Ugh, I knew it. Just get rid of Peavy already. Why waste 30 mil on him with this stupid team.

Tragg
07-28-2013, 01:13 AM
Ugh, I knew it. Just get rid of Peavy already. Why waste 30 mil on him with this stupid team.
Gammons doing some spin work on behalf of Red Sox
Not need to give Peavy, Alexei or even Rios away now.
Hahn is playing this smart. Other teams are counting on him caving, but he won't because he doesn't have to...he can trade these guys after the season. If they were rents, he'd have to cave. So he's betting on a buyer caving into his demands because they know he's not bluffing....they may not, but nothing to lose by seeing if they do. And a lot to gain.

SCCWS
07-28-2013, 07:20 AM
Gammons doing some spin work on behalf of Red Sox
Not need to give Peavy, Alexei or even Rios away now.
Hahn is playing this smart. Other teams are counting on him caving, but he won't because he doesn't have to...he can trade these guys after the season. If they were rents, he'd have to cave. So he's betting on a buyer caving into his demands because they know he's not bluffing....they may not, but nothing to lose by seeing if they do. And a lot to gain.

He could have something to lose. Their value has a lot to do with it. If Hahn waits and Peavy has more injury problems or Rios or Alexei tank the 2nd half, it could end up being a bad move.

Golden Sox
07-28-2013, 08:25 AM
Todays Sunday Sun Times has an article on the White Sox rebuilding plan. Basically it says they think they have the pitching staff in place to contend, but don't have the hitting. It also points out that they're probably going to go out and sign some free agents this off season who can hit. I hope this is true and they actually go out and sign some hitters. This would be the easiest way to turn this team around. We shall see.

balke
07-28-2013, 08:48 AM
Todays Sunday Sun Times has an article on the White Sox rebuilding plan. Basically it says they think they have the pitching staff in place to contend, but don't have the hitting. It also points out that they're probably going to go out and sign some free agents this off season who can hit. I hope this is true and they actually go out and sign some hitters. This would be the easiest way to turn this team around. We shall see.

This is the top 2014 Free agent list as of June:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22380476/checking-in-on-the-top-free-agents-for-2014

There's no real savior in the bunch. The Sox would have to win several free agents to make an impact. They'd be better off in 2015 trying to buy difference makers (assuming a lot of those players don't get re-signed by then)

russ99
07-28-2013, 08:56 AM
This is the top 2014 Free agent list as of June:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22380476/checking-in-on-the-top-free-agents-for-2014

There's no real savior in the bunch. The Sox would have to win several free agents to make an impact. They'd be better off in 2015 trying to buy difference makers (assuming a lot of those players don't get re-signed by then)

Agree, they'd need to get multiple players to make a difference. As much as I'd love to see Jerry spash cash for say a less-expensive combination of Granderson, Morneau and Pence, we need to be able to develop our own hitters.

And that starts from the top, changing long-held policies on drafting, signing and player development.

soxfanreggie
07-28-2013, 09:11 AM
He could have something to lose. Their value has a lot to do with it. If Hahn waits and Peavy has more injury problems or Rios or Alexei tank the 2nd half, it could end up being a bad move.

That's my fear with Peavy. I just can't have confidence that he can stay healthy for a full season.

A. Cavatica
07-28-2013, 10:44 AM
Todays Sunday Sun Times has an article on the White Sox rebuilding plan. Basically it says they think they have the pitching staff in place to contend, but don't have the hitting. It also points out that they're probably going to go out and sign some free agents this off season who can hit. I hope this is true and they actually go out and sign some hitters. This would be the easiest way to turn this team around. We shall see.

This team is more than a few free agent signings away. Are they going to sign nine free agents?

SCCWS
07-28-2013, 11:27 AM
This team is more than a few free agent signings away. Are they going to sign nine free agents?

9 is probably too many but they are probably 2 years of free agent signing away. But hopefully the trades they make in 2013 will fill a few position player holes. As I pointed our recently, Boston signed a bunch of average free agents around Ellsbury-Pedroia and Ortiz and a mediocre pitching staff. They have gone from one of the worst teams to one of the best. The additions they made???? Uehara-Ryan Sweeney ( who got cut), Victorino, Napoli, David Ross( who got hurt), Jonny Gomes and Dempster. They are mostly the kind of free agents that are available every year. Obviously the difference is Boston started with 3 studs so the White Sox need to get one or two via a trade or free agent signing. Boston also went out and got a much better coaching staff than they had.

A. Cavatica
07-28-2013, 11:55 AM
9 is probably too many

Not when you consider their success rate with signings. If they signed 9 free agent position players, 5 would be busts, and that would leave them well short of contention.

This team cannot be fixed through free agency.

SCCWS
07-28-2013, 12:00 PM
Not when you consider their success rate with signings. If they signed 9 free agent position players, 5 would be busts, and that would leave them well short of contention.

This team cannot be fixed through free agency.


But that is the same with most teams. Boston cut Sweeney and Ross got hurt. Napoli has been up and down but provided protection behind Ortiz. Victorino has been very good and Gomes average. Uuehara has been very good and Dempster has been average.

delben91
07-28-2013, 12:03 PM
I enjoy that all in one thread we have assertions the team can't be fixed through free agency, and can't trust the scouts to fix it through the draft, and that the Sox should dump our few good players until they improve to the point that it's worth having good players (even though I guess the Sox aren't capable of signing or drafting good players so that day will never come...).

I hope July 31st comes quick so we have something tangible to discuss again.

Vestigio
07-28-2013, 12:21 PM
JIM BOWDEN
‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
Cardinals continue pursuit of Jake Peavy and Alexei Ramirez with Carlos Martinez, Joe Kelly and Kolton Wong's names being mentioned #RUMORS

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/361529324265938944

cws05champ
07-28-2013, 12:53 PM
JIM BOWDEN
‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
Cardinals continue pursuit of Jake Peavy and Alexei Ramirez with Carlos Martinez, Joe Kelly and Kolton Wong's names being mentioned #RUMORS

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/361529324265938944
Sign me up....throw in Lindstrom and Cash and get Matt Adams too. :tongue:

Over By There
07-28-2013, 01:12 PM
@DanHayesCSN: #WhiteSox source has Oakland #Athletics in front of Jake Peavy sweepstakes. Peavy brought extra bags on trip in case, per @JJStankevitz.

Brian26
07-28-2013, 01:21 PM
Talked to a guy on the train on the way to the game who had lunch with Reinsdorf this week. What he told me is pretty shocking. Supposedly the only guy that will be traded before Wednesday is Peavy.

LITTLE NELL
07-28-2013, 01:24 PM
Talked to a guy on the train on the way to the game who had lunch with Reinsdorf this week. What he told me is pretty shocking. Supposedly the only guy that will be traded before Wednesday is Peavy.

Say it ain't so.

SoxSpeed22
07-28-2013, 01:46 PM
If Colon gets the hook for the whole PED thing, then Peavy to Oakland makes sense. I don't know what kind of deal Billy boy can make, but they have some solid infielders. The good news is that Rick has some options.

getonbckthr
07-28-2013, 01:57 PM
Sounds like Peavy will be dealt tonight or tomorrow, http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9516343/jake-peavy-preparing-likely-trade-chicago-white-sox (http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9516343/jake-peavy-preparing-likely-trade-chicago-white-sox)http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9516343/jake-peavy-preparing-likely-trade-chicago-white-sox (http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9516343/jake-peavy-preparing-likely-trade-chicago-white-sox)

shingo10
07-28-2013, 02:06 PM
If Colon gets the hook for the whole PED thing, then Peavy to Oakland makes sense. I don't know what kind of deal Billy boy can make, but they have some solid infielders. The good news is that Rick has some options.

The options he has are worthless if he isn't going to act. I'm getting more and more disgusted every day. No I don't want him just to give people away but we have some value guys and should be able to get something done.

DSpivack
07-28-2013, 02:50 PM
https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/361573922233266176

Texas or Oakland?

Other sources said a trade was "imminent."

Rocky Soprano
07-28-2013, 02:52 PM
The options he has are worthless if he isn't going to act. I'm getting more and more disgusted every day. No I don't want him just to give people away but we have some value guys and should be able to get something done.

I'm sorry but this makes no freaking sense. You are disgusted that he hasn't acted but then say he shouldn't give people away. The more options he has should only help get the best possible haul.

soxnut1018
07-28-2013, 04:14 PM
JIM BOWDEN
‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
Cardinals continue pursuit of Jake Peavy and Alexei Ramirez with Carlos Martinez, Joe Kelly and Kolton Wong's names being mentioned #RUMORS

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/361529324265938944

Hell yes to all three of those.