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View Full Version : Sale & Rios to Texas?


Fastball23
07-17-2013, 05:51 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/07/17/texas-rangers-rumors-trade-for-chris-sale-brewing-with-chicago-white-sox/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

If we do trade Sale/Rios to the Rangers. Here's the deal I like to see the Sox do

Profar, Olt, Alfaro, L Jackson, and M Perez for Sale/Rios

Tragg
07-17-2013, 06:10 PM
If we have to trade him, then so be it. But please, don't muck it up. Don't under-price the assets and no lagniappe.

This would be an example of mucking it up: Profar, Olt and a "replaceable" starting position player mentioned in the article.

kittle42
07-17-2013, 06:10 PM
Seems like a reputable site.

Dibbs
07-17-2013, 06:20 PM
Why in the world would we trade Sale? This must be a joke I'm not being let in on.

Boondock Saint
07-17-2013, 06:24 PM
This reeks of Rockabilly.

DirtySox
07-17-2013, 06:45 PM
This reeks of Rockabilly.

I've just assumed that Fastball23 is Rockabilly.

Marqhead
07-17-2013, 06:52 PM
It's not completely farfetched. Sale could potentially bring back a huge haul which is why I'm sure Hahn is considering all his options.

Over By There
07-17-2013, 09:29 PM
...lagniappe...


Ha! :smile:

A. Cavatica
07-17-2013, 10:19 PM
There has to be more interest in Sale than any other player right now.

#1 starter? Check.
Lefthanded? Check.
Young? Check.
Cost-controlled? Check.
Controlled by an organization with a terrible record of talent evaluation, who might just give him away for peanuts? Check.

Golden Sox
07-17-2013, 10:24 PM
This could turn out to be the biggest PR disaster since the "White Flag Trade".

A. Cavatica
07-17-2013, 10:26 PM
The current team is already a PR disaster.

SoxSpeed22
07-17-2013, 10:55 PM
This could turn out to be the biggest PR disaster since the "White Flag Trade".I still think "All In" wins it for me.

CoopaLoop
07-17-2013, 11:11 PM
Why in the world would we trade Sale? This must be a joke I'm not being let in on.

Because if a team to were give you the moon, you listen. Nobody on a franchise in this horrible state is untouchable.

balke
07-17-2013, 11:14 PM
Because if a team to were give you the moon, you listen. Nobody on a franchise in this horrible state is untouchable.


Sale is the moon. You only trade him for a future moon, a sun, and the majority of the stars. Still a risky move, stars might not shine.

CoopaLoop
07-17-2013, 11:23 PM
Sale is the moon. You only trade him for a future moon, a sun, and the majority of the stars. Still a risky move, stars might not shine.

I am listening to a deal that involves Jurickson Profar.

One thing the Sox have in the system is pitching.

One thing the Sox don't have any of is hitting.

A. Cavatica
07-17-2013, 11:23 PM
Sale is the moon. You only trade him for a future moon, a sun, and the majority of the stars. Still a risky move, stars might not shine.

Sale is also putting all our eggs in one basket. Reasonable men can disagree about how soon the Sox could contend again, but I haven't seen anyone arguing for 2014, and few arguing for 2015...if Sale blows out his elbow then he doesn't help the 2016 team at all.

soxnut1018
07-17-2013, 11:42 PM
Why in the world would we trade Sale? This must be a joke I'm not being let in on.

The Sox system has no virtually no impact position players. The major league team probably won't be competitive for another 3-4 years, if they draft exceptionally well. If they can get 2-3 unbelievable prospects along with a couple of solid prospects, it makes sense. I wouldn't mind keeping Sale, as he's a top 3 pitcher. However, considering the situation the Sox are in, they can't afford to have any untouchables.

cards press box
07-17-2013, 11:55 PM
It's not completely farfetched.

I don't know, I think it is pretty far out there on the farfetched scale.

soxtalker
07-18-2013, 12:18 AM
I agree with the last few comments. Keeping Sale is not without risk. (Trading also has risk, but it is spread out over several players.)

Another aspect of the rumor is the inclusion of Rios. There was a posting on mlbtraderumers.com earlier today that the Sox were disappointed with the offers for Rios so far. Now, these are all rumors, and we don't know what is really going on. However, bundling Sale with one of the experienced, older, and more expensive players like Rios may make it easier for another team to trade the "crown jewels" of its farm system and take on the added salary expense.

RCWHITESOX
07-18-2013, 02:06 AM
If the Sox trade Sale they better get a boat load. I know the organization is lacking in position players but if they move Sale and Peavy this team will just be giving from one strength and picking up prospects who may never pan out to their hype. I have said it before pitching is the hardest to come by; and if they trade their top two pitchers and Rios the only real asset left is Reed. I hope they keep Sale and move some of their dead wait De Aza, Ramirez, Dunn, Axelrod amongst others. I will be anxious to see how Hahn handles things before and after the trade deadline; and hope for the best.

KRS1
07-18-2013, 03:11 AM
Sale could potentially bring back a huge haul which is why I'm sure Hahn is considering all his options.
And I truly believe this is our best bet to turn this franchise around and contend again. I'm not pushing Sale out the door, because I absolutely love the kid, but you have to seriously consider any offer that improves multiple spots in a big way like some of this speculation (but I'm not nearly as big a Profar fan as the pundits are - way too boom or bust). I wouldn't trade him for anything less than immediate, sure major league contributors along with a top tier A+ prospect and some B types. Maybe that's wildly unrealistic, but it is absolutely what you demand in return for Sale. A lot of those trades come out very bad for the team who gives away the young, MLB proven talent like Sale, and rushing a rebuilding can compound the problem. However, this team and system is bad and needs something big to happen to change that any time soon.

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2013, 06:54 AM
I don't like this at all. If it happened, I think I might be sick. If it does, Profar better be the next A-Rod.

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2013, 06:59 AM
Profar's stock is falling (http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/06/21/4953944/major-league-exposure-has-hurt.html)

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2013, 07:13 AM
Another site I read, which positively gushed on Profar before the 2013 season began, said his ceiling is Alan Trammel or Barry Larkin. But lately he's looked more like Ozzie Guillen.

We traded Lamarr Hoyt for Ozzie. That trade worked out for the Sox because Hoyt's drug problem forced him out of the game. If Hahn and the Sox medical staff think Sale really is a ticking time bomb, then they would be foolish not to consider "selling high." But Sale is profiling like Randy Johnson right now. If Sale gets dealt and wins multiple Cy Young Awards, and all the Sox get in return for him is another Ozzie, the franchise would be set back for the next decade.

soxfanreggie
07-18-2013, 07:35 AM
Another site I read, which positively gushed on Profar before the 2013 season began, said his ceiling is Alan Trammel or Barry Larkin. But lately he's looked more like Ozzie Guillen.

We traded Lamarr Hoyt for Ozzie. That trade worked out for the Sox because Hoyt's drug problem forced him out of the game. If Hahn and the Sox medical staff think Sale really is a ticking time bomb, then they would be foolish not to consider "selling high." But Sale is profiling like Randy Johnson right now. If Sale gets dealt and wins multiple Cy Young Awards, and all the Sox get in return for him is another Ozzie, the franchise would be set back for the next decade.

That's the big question, what's his future health? He could be an All-Star 12 times before he retires, he has the "stuff." He has already made it twice and will be up for sone Cy Young awards here soon. However, he could be done in a year or two. Who knows!

We could also be having this discussion again every year based on how we're playing and his future signability (way off in the distance there). Hopefully of that's the case, we can re-write parts of the deal and add years.

There has to be more interest in Sale than any other player right now.

#1 starter? Check.
Lefthanded? Check.
Young? Check.
Cost-controlled? Check.
Controlled by an organization with a terrible record of talent evaluation, who might just give him away for peanuts? Check.

I think you'll see some clubs back off because of injury potential. If pairing him with Rios got us a nice return for Rios as well, that increased value also factors in. It would be interesting to see the WAR of Sale vs the war if any proposed trade bait in 2015 and on. That's not the only metric to use since a guy like Sale will be key in 1-game playoffs and "must-win" issues, but increasing g our win total is #1 priority.

balke
07-18-2013, 08:35 AM
Sale is also putting all our eggs in one basket. Reasonable men can disagree about how soon the Sox could contend again, but I haven't seen anyone arguing for 2014, and few arguing for 2015...if Sale blows out his elbow then he doesn't help the 2016 team at all.


Meanwhile you have Sale under control until 2019. He could not blow his elbow out, win multiple Cy Young awards, and lead the White Sox to a championship within that time period. You could also trade him at any given time until then, so there's no need to trade right now.

You're talking about a top 3 pitcher in the entire sport, versus the top draft pick from 2010. So far Profar is hitting .276 with .826 OPS in the minors. That's not a good start to a hall of fame career.

Someone asked for A-rod for Sale. A-rod crushed the ball in the minors at that age.

SCCWS
07-18-2013, 08:49 AM
I am listening to a deal that involves Jurickson Profar.

One thing the Sox have in the system is pitching.

One thing the Sox don't have any of is hitting.

Why??? He is a .278 hitter in the minors over 4 seasons. Limited power since he is still small---170lbs. Average defensively. Great speed but it hasn't translated into stolen bases. 50 games in the majors and he is hitting .229 w 4 HR's and no SB. Small sampling but he has struggled. Obviously he has potential based on ratings and he is still very young. But Sale is already an All Star. So a kid w potential is a long way from a kid who is an All Star. Maybe Profar for Rios but he would need to be one of many top prospects for Sale and Rios.

Chez
07-18-2013, 09:00 AM
Sale is also putting all our eggs in one basket. Reasonable men can disagree about how soon the Sox could contend again, but I haven't seen anyone arguing for 2014, and few arguing for 2015...if Sale blows out his elbow then he doesn't help the 2016 team at all.

Are the prospects we would get for Sale injury-proof? Do they come with extended warranties if they break? Anyone can get injured. Realistically, the Sox would never get fair value for Sale.

Tragg
07-18-2013, 09:36 AM
Profar's stock is falling (http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/06/21/4953944/major-league-exposure-has-hurt.html)

Yep. The 2 big Ranger prospects - he and olt- are starting to look like duds. (Not duds yet but falling). No surprise really. Prospects fail and the rangers have been an overhyped organization for several years.

I'm open to a trade- but for a ton of talent. And certainly not as an inducement to take one of our overpaid players off of our hands

The Immigrant
07-18-2013, 09:36 AM
Realistically, the Sox would never get fair value for Sale.

Especially given how bad the organization is at developing position players.

Domeshot17
07-18-2013, 10:08 AM
Meanwhile you have Sale under control until 2019. He could not blow his elbow out, win multiple Cy Young awards, and lead the White Sox to a championship within that time period. You could also trade him at any given time until then, so there's no need to trade right now.

You're talking about a top 3 pitcher in the entire sport, versus the top draft pick from 2010. So far Profar is hitting .276 with .826 OPS in the minors. That's not a good start to a hall of fame career.

Someone asked for A-rod for Sale. A-rod crushed the ball in the minors at that age.

wow.... I LOVE Chris Sale, I am as high on him as anyone.... but Top 3...... Right Now????? Maybe in a couple of years......

Right now I would say he is Top 8, and that is fantastic....But given the chance, would you pass on Kershaw, Harvey, King Felix, Verlander, Darvish? Maybe, he is certainly in the convo, I just think top 3 is a stretch, maybe top 5, surely top 8.

asindc
07-18-2013, 11:33 AM
If the Sox trade Sale they better get a boat load. I know the organization is lacking in position players but if they move Sale and Peavy this team will just be giving from one strength and picking up prospects who may never pan out to their hype. I have said it before pitching is the hardest to come by; and if they trade their top two pitchers and Rios the only real asset left is Reed. I hope they keep Sale and move some of their dead wait De Aza, Ramirez, Dunn, Axelrod amongst others. I will be anxious to see how Hahn handles things before and after the trade deadline; and hope for the best.

I agree with this assessment. There are many who talk of highly-regarded prospects as if their future contributions are a given. I'd much rather keep Sale (and even Viciedo) than not get back at least one hitter ready to play in the lineup everyday along with prospects. If that doesn't happen, so be it, we just keep the young, inexpensive players we have until some team makes it worth our while to gamble on their prospects. Example, there are some who would have traded Sale for Colby Rasmus and two other highly-ranked prospects two years ago. How would that have worked out?

PorkChopExpress
07-18-2013, 11:35 AM
If the Sox trade Sale they better get a boat load. I know the organization is lacking in position players but if they move Sale and Peavy this team will just be giving from one strength and picking up prospects who may never pan out to their hype. I have said it before pitching is the hardest to come by; and if they trade their top two pitchers and Rios the only real asset left is Reed. I hope they keep Sale and move some of their dead wait De Aza, Ramirez, Dunn, Axelrod amongst others. I will be anxious to see how Hahn handles things before and after the trade deadline; and hope for the best.

The problem is that you have to give something to get something. If the Sox are truly rebuilding, they need to get good young prospects, of which they currently have far too few. However, you will not get good young prospects by moving "dead weight." You'll only get minor league dead weight in return. Peavy and Rios should each get you something of value. Neither is merely a rental, both can be good to very good to even great, but both also come with question marks, i.e., injuries/mental toughness. Now Sale is something different. If he gets traded, yes, it better be for a boat load, i.e., multiple top young prospects, possibly even MLB players. But he should definitely be available for trade.

asindc
07-18-2013, 11:40 AM
The problem is that you have to give something to get something. If the Sox are truly rebuilding, they need to get good young prospects, of which they currently have far too few. However, you will not get good young prospects by moving "dead weight." You'll only get minor league dead weight in return. Peavy and Rios should each get you something of value. Neither is merely a rental, both can be good to very good to even great, but both also come with question marks, i.e., injuries/mental toughness. Now Sale is something different. If he gets traded, yes, it better be for a boat load, i.e., multiple top young prospects, possibly even MLB players. But he should definitely be available for trade.

I'd change that bolded part to "and definitely at least one MLB player."

kittle42
07-18-2013, 01:13 PM
Profar's stock is falling (http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/06/21/4953944/major-league-exposure-has-hurt.html)

Oh, then he's perfect for the Sox!

chicagowhitesox1
07-18-2013, 01:31 PM
I wouldn't want Profar for Sale. Sale should be the only untouchable the Sox have.

MeteorsSox4367
07-18-2013, 01:32 PM
I know the Sox aren't playing well this season, but I don't trade Sale. People have talked about how he could get hurt in the future or if the Sox get these prospects from this team, that these guys could do this in the future...

Just my opinion, but when the Sox are contending again - which is hopefully sooner rather than later - they will be looking for someone who can anchor their rotation.

They have him right now. Wears No. 49. Tall, skinny guy who is really damn good. Left-handed, too. Name is Chris Sale.

If I'm Rick Hahn, Sale stays.

I'm done now. Thank you. :D:

Tragg
07-18-2013, 02:14 PM
Oh, then he's perfect for the Sox!

Don't worry - he's got TWTW....that's all we need.

Tragg
07-18-2013, 02:17 PM
wow.... I LOVE Chris Sale, I am as high on him as anyone.... but Top 3...... Right Now????? Maybe in a couple of years......

Right now I would say he is Top 8, and that is fantastic....But given the chance, would you pass on Kershaw, Harvey, King Felix, Verlander, Darvish? Maybe, he is certainly in the convo, I just think top 3 is a stretch, maybe top 5, surely top 8.

I'll go with the 1st 4 being better.
Verlander's dipped badly this season.
Darvish lacks consistency, but he's arguably better.
Top 8 is safe...but that's damn good and simply worth more than any team is willing to pay. He's worth more than 3-4 elite prospects plus a couple of Bs, and I doubt a team will give 2 elites.
We don't need major leaguers in return, unless they are high-end cost controlled guys; but contenders won't trade them to us. We don't need their surplus, mediocre players or declining veterans..we have an abundance of those categories already.