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Daver
08-03-2002, 05:24 PM
An aberration,and they are still a candidate for contraction. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0803/1413784.html)

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by daver
An aberration,and they are still a candidate for contraction. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0803/1413784.html)

The Twins are one pissed off team this year. Bud "I'm on a mission to kill baseball" Selig has placed a huge chip on their shoulder by threating to contract them & it has made them a very motivated, hungry team.

Chisox_cali
08-03-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


The Twins are one pissed off team this year. Bud "I'm on a mission to kill baseball" Selig has placed a huge chip on their shoulder by threating to contract them & it has made them a very motivated, hungry team.

May have fired up the team, but not the fans, they are ranked 23rd in attendence, which is probably why Bud still considers them for contraction. The fans not showing up just keep feeding Bud with more reasons to contract them. So he can say "They may be a first place team, but where are the fans?"

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali


May have fired up the team, but not the fans, they are ranked 23rd in attendence, which is probably why Bud still considers them for contraction. The fans not showing up just keep feeding Bud with more reasons to contract them. So he can say "They may be a first place team, but where are the fans?"

Kinda reminds us of the 2000 Sox. We were winning & nobody showed up till towards the end. They understand what happened to us 2 years ago.

Chisox_cali
08-03-2002, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Kinda reminds us of the 2000 Sox. We were winning & nobody showed up till towards the end. They understand what happened to us 2 years ago.

That is true, but I also think they know that the strike is coming, and it's pointless to come out. If there was playoffs this year, I don't think they could make it out of the first round. They would be an inexperienced team in the playoffs with experienced teams like the Yankees Red Sox and Mariners as possible opponents.

LongDistanceFan
08-03-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali


That is true, but I also think they know that the strike is coming, and it's pointless to come out. If there was playoffs this year, I don't think they could make it out of the first round. They would be an inexperienced team in the playoffs with experienced teams like the Yankees Red Sox and Mariners as possible opponents.

i agree, but in ref to us in 2000 what was the total attendance # ? if you put a good team out there that plays aggressive, you will see the numbers for the attendance increase.

MarkEdward
08-03-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali


May have fired up the team, but not the fans, they are ranked 23rd in attendence, which is probably why Bud still considers them for contraction. The fans not showing up just keep feeding Bud with more reasons to contract them. So he can say "They may be a first place team, but where are the fans?"


They're not coming because Bud keeps demeaning their team. Bud keeps saying the Twins won't be around next year, and this must be getting to Twins' fans. I don't really blame the fans.

MarkEdward
08-03-2002, 06:31 PM
To add to my last post, I just love Bud's line of thinking. Here's a little timetable:

Bud: "Small market teams can't compete." (Oakland A's, Cleveland Indians, and Seattle Mariners all have winning seasons)

Bud: "Those are abberations, they can't sustain winnings seasons." (Oakland A's make playoffs two years in a row, Seattle wins 116 games, Cleveland makes a World Series)

Bud: "Oakland, Seattle, and Cleveland are no longer small market teams. Oh, oh, but the Twins are! People of Minnesota, buy Carl a stadium or you'll never compete!" (Twins lead division by 15 games)

Bud: "That's an abberation, they can't sustain winning seasons."

And the cycle continues.

ScottyTheSoxFan
08-03-2002, 09:20 PM
If the twins are gone.....


The Central will be determined by who loses the least amount of games, the Sox, Royals, Indians, and Tigers. ugh.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-03-2002, 09:36 PM
This is simply Bud Selig protecting Carl Pohlad's financial position. Pohlad could care less that Minnesota will help him build a new stadium or that other people want to buy his team.

Nope. What Pohlad wants is MLB to buy his franchise so he can be buried with all his money.

:reinsy
"And your point would be?"

LongDistanceFan
08-03-2002, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
This is simply Bud Selig protecting Carl Pohlad's financial position. Pohlad could care less that Minnesota will help him build a new stadium or that other people want to buy his team.

Nope. What Pohlad wants is MLB to buy his franchise so he can be buried with all his money.


after reading some of pohad antics, i don't passed anything by him. i thought writz was bad.

FanOf14
08-04-2002, 08:40 AM
What constitutes a small market team? I have to be honest and say that Oakland and Seattle don't strike me as being a small market team. Cleveland, maybe. KC Royals, definitely. I guess it is just that I am not sure what consitutes a small market team. Someone needs to explain it to JR because it really seems like he runs the Sox like they are a small market team.

MarkEdward
08-04-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
What constitutes a small market team? I have to be honest and say that Oakland and Seattle don't strike me as being a small market team. Cleveland, maybe. KC Royals, definitely. I guess it is just that I am not sure what consitutes a small market team. Someone needs to explain it to JR because it really seems like he runs the Sox like they are a small market team.


Oakland may not be a small market team, but I think I remember Selig calling the As small market a few years ago. As for finding out which teams are small market, I think Mike Jones did research on the topic, although I can't find the website now. Using market size, Seattle has the 15th largest market, Cleveland 14th, and Kansas City 24th. My point is, Selig bases large market-small market on if the team has a new, publicly financed stadium. So, Baltimore, with Camdem Yards, is considered large market (only 19th in population), while Minnesota is considered small market (17th in population).

FanOf14
08-04-2002, 09:33 AM
Thanks Mark! Honestly, I was never sure what criterion was used for decide small market vs large market. It seemed really abstract and subjective when I would hear some from the media or baseball talk about this subject.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-04-2002, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward

Oakland may not be a small market team, but I think I remember Selig calling the As small market a few years ago. As for finding out which teams are small market, I think Mike Jones did research on the topic, although I can't find the website now. Using market size, Seattle has the 15th largest market, Cleveland 14th, and Kansas City 24th. My point is, Selig bases large market-small market on if the team has a new, publicly financed stadium. So, Baltimore, with Camdem Yards, is considered large market (only 19th in population), while Minnesota is considered small market (17th in population).

Great points. Besides the obvious contradictions you've pointed out in Selig's position, I would go even further. I would assert "small market" is any team whose owner/promoter can't or won't compete. Selig reserves the term "Small market" for whichever promoter needs to stretch his fanbase or local politicians for additional concessions--mostly aimed at enhancing their own bottom line.

Cleveland was "small market" before Jacobs bought them. Jacobs sold and Dogan is fast returning them to "small market" again. Oakland was small market until the Haas family bought them and began winning championships. Hass sold and now they're "small market" again. San Francisco was "small market" until Magowin (?) bought them. Toronto was big market under Labatt's, but now they're "small market".

My personal favorite is Seattle. The Mariners were the poster child for "small market" throughout the 80's and early 90's. When Nintendo finally succeeded buying them (after the other owners failed in their efforts to use racism to block their path), the Mariners are now big market.

"Small market" is a ridiculous term. The more accurate term is "small promoter" vs. "big promoter". Guess what Sox Fans are stuck with?

:reinsy
"Diamond Suites, Schwimond Suites. Sox Fans aren't giving me enough money to field a winner."

ma-gaga
08-04-2002, 08:41 PM
I was thinking about this this weekend and came up with three solid reasons for the "lack of attendance".

1.) Threat of Strike
2.) Threat of Contraction
3.) Crappy stadium situation

There are a couple of other minor reasons; last years big fade, lack of competitive teams, there being a limited number of nice days during the summer and "wasting" one of them indoors at the ballpark. That being said, attendance is starting to pick up. I think they drew nearly 100,000 for the last three games against the Royals. Not too bad for a "contraction candidate".

Besides, Bud/Pohlad are full of it. All of their reasons are motivated strictly and utterly by greed. It's a big scam, I'm a little ashamed that they may get a new stadium out of it. Actually I'm a little surprised that Bud continues to open his mouth regarding this, he will eventually get caught.

:)