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View Full Version : We are owed an explanation


LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 12:16 PM
JR needs to come forward an explain what's going on with this franchise. It's great that he has a great stadium contract and is making money and hardly pays any rent. Is he happy just to make money and let the fans suffer?
I want to know what the plans are for the team, no one says anything. Are we going to rebuild? Are we going to make trades. Are we going to start investing more in our Minor League program? Are we going to spend tons of money in free agents after the season. Someone needs come forward and tell us what the plan is. Right now we have a worse record than the stinking Cubs but they at least have told their fans that they are in a rebuilding phase and be patient.
Yesterday was the first time since I moved to Florida that I did not watch a Sox game on WGN, I'm only able to get games on WGN and ESPN. We also will not be making our annual trip over to TB next week to see the Sox and Rays. I will not spend one cent of my retirement income to watch a team playing like a bunch of clowns.

Bobby Thigpen
06-30-2013, 12:21 PM
We also will not be making our annual trip over to TB next week to see the Sox and Rays. I will not spend one cent of my retirement income to watch a team playing like a bunch of clowns.
You show those Rays how ticked off at the Sox you are!

captain54
06-30-2013, 12:26 PM
even if the organization decided to go public, do you really think you'd get a straight answer?

It just very well may be that organization doesnt have a clue as to how to fix this

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 12:31 PM
You show those Rays how ticked off at the Sox you are!

Does not the visiting team get some part of the gate receipts any more?

The larger picture is how many fans up there in Chicago feel the same way?
If I was a season ticket customer I would be demanding my money back (never happen) and would sure as hell cancel for next year.

doublem23
06-30-2013, 12:34 PM
:rolling:

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 12:35 PM
:rolling:

I knew you would find it funny.

doublem23
06-30-2013, 12:36 PM
I knew you would find it funny.

I guess that's a word you could use

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 12:38 PM
I guess that's a word you could use

I'm curious what you find funny, are you happy with the 2013 White Sox and feel no changes are needed?

doublem23
06-30-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm curious what you find funny, are you happy with the 2013 White Sox and feel no changes are needed?

Yes, this season has been so awesome, I never want it to end

voodoochile
06-30-2013, 12:45 PM
One can not be happy with the state of the team and still not feel the fans are owed and explanation by ownership. Some of the things will become self-evident as the summer plays out anyway as players are traded away and the Sox make other decisions.

Ownership owes the fans a decent chance at the playoffs. Mostly that is done by keeping the payroll at an acceptable level and not going totally cheap. Sometimes those financial decisions don't work out. When that happens the team flounders as the Sox are this year.

Post end of window teams often see this kind of thing happen. That's where the Sox are. They never managed to get back over the hump with the current core.

That's the explanation for the current status of the Sox. It's really fairly self-evident, IMO. The rest is simply emotions. No one is happy with how bad the Sox are, but JR stepping to the mic and saying so and giving a breakdown of why it happened isn't going to change that.

I am sure there are many factors for what direction the team will take later this year, into he off season and for the years to come thereafter. I doubt the Sox have a fully formed plan for how to turn this around. Too many factors have to play out yet.

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 12:46 PM
Yes, this season has been so awesome, I never want it to end

If they keep on playing like they have it will seem like it will never come to an end.

amsteel
06-30-2013, 12:48 PM
It's amazing how spoiled people get based on mediocrity.

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 12:57 PM
One can not be happy with the state of the team and still not feel the fans are owed and explanation by ownership. Some of the things will become self-evident as the summer plays out anyway as players are traded away and the Sox make other decisions.

Ownership owes the fans a decent chance at the playoffs. Mostly that is done by keeping the payroll at an acceptable level and not going totally cheap. Sometimes those financial decisions don't work out. When that happens the team flounders as the Sox are this year.

Post end of window teams often see this kind of thing happen. That's where the Sox are. They never managed to get back over the hump with the current core.

That's the explanation for the current status of the Sox. It's really fairly self-evident, IMO. The rest is simply emotions. No one is happy with how bad the Sox are, but JR stepping to the mic and saying so and giving a breakdown of why it happened isn't going to change that.

I am sure there are many factors for what direction the team will take later this year, into he off season and for the years to come thereafter. I doubt the Sox have a fully formed plan for how to turn this around. Too many factors have to play out yet.

Someone with an intelligent opinion!

I know when I wrote my OP I was speaking from the heart but the silence form the front office has been deafening. I still feel someone needs to speak up and tell us what the plans are for the franchise. Even before this season started most of us were scratching our head when we brought only one new player to the roster in the name of Jeff Keppinger. I was wondering right there, what's the deal for the season, did they really think that adding Kepp was the difference in over-taking the Tigers.

Jurr
06-30-2013, 01:23 PM
Save that talk until after the trade deadline, once the smoke has cleared.

1. "We still think that with the talent we have, we can add pieces and compete next year." --- GMs that really want the trade-able players may think they would have to pay more in prospects for each guy. Fans, however, would be irate, knowing that the team is screwed and is in need of VAST changes.

2. "We suck, this roster sucks, and we need to blow it up." --good luck getting top value for your players.

You shut up, make your trades, get your prospects, and then after the deadline say "these moves were made to rebuild the identity of this franchise. We are tired of spinning our wheels."

Tragg
06-30-2013, 01:25 PM
What they need to do is explain what they intend to do to fix it.
But they may not know yet - although not uncommon for a team with past-their-prime veterans and a lack of young talent to collapse, they just weren't ready for it.

TaylorStSox
06-30-2013, 01:38 PM
The Sox don't owe any of us a thing. You don't have to buy the product.

The most foolish thing the FO could do is go public with their rebuild strategy before the deadline.

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 01:59 PM
The Sox don't owe any of us a thing. You don't have to buy the product.

The most foolish thing the FO could do is go public with their rebuild strategy before the deadline.

I agree with you in the sense that we don't have to buy the product.
The difference is that our love of the Sox does not come down to a real product, following a sports team is an emotional thing built up over years of passion for the team. It's not like screw Chevrolet, I'm going to buy a Ford or the hell with Dell I'm going to get an Apple. The Sox are part of us and we are part of them and it hurts me deeply when I see what's happening with this franchise.
I could see lousy players under Veeck and the Allyns, they never had the money to compete but JR and company are a different story, they came in with grand ideas and building a great tradition. The Sox have averaged a record of 83.5 and 78.5 in JRs 32 years as owner, like someone said, some are spoiled by mediocrity.

Bobby Thigpen
06-30-2013, 01:59 PM
Does not the visiting team get some part of the gate receipts any more?

The larger picture is how many fans up there in Chicago feel the same way?
If I was a season ticket customer I would be demanding my money back (never happen) and would sure as hell cancel for next year.
I'm sure they will be crippled by the $30 they don't get from you.

I don't know why people think the teams they are fans of owe them anything. I think there's quite a few franchises in MLB that have proven you don't even need fans to make money. What do you want? A weekly State of the Sox address? Them to post opinion polls on certain players and make deals based on the fans' desires? It's their team. They're going to run it however they want. They don't owe us a dang thing.

BainesHOF
06-30-2013, 02:12 PM
I'm with you, Little Nell.

One reason nothing has been said could very well be that they don't have a plan. Merely dumping players in a disastrous season is not a plan.

What's disconcerting about the organization is it doesn't seem to be honest with itself. The Sox suffered a big collapse in 2012. Losing Pierzynski and adding Keppinger was far from a formula for success in 2013. The current roster obviously has major problems. Looking at the everyday lineup of position players, there's not much there for the future. Perhaps Beckham. Maybe Gillaspie. An optimist might say Viciedo. That's it, and that's probably stretching it.

And then there's the issue of the sorry state of the minor-league system. When major changes were called for to fix this, some people responsible for the atrocious drafting and player development were actually promoted.

So, yes, what's the plan for fixing this mess? I believe part of that requires an honest look in the mirror, but that seems like a longshot.

Tragg
06-30-2013, 02:14 PM
I don't know why people think the teams they are fans of owe them anything.
Because they receive exemptions from critical federal laws and because the taxpayers, in many cases, built their stadiums and otherwise subsidized them financially.

It's also good business to keep your customers apprised of what's going on. They don't have to, but it's a good practice.

Bobby Thigpen
06-30-2013, 02:21 PM
Because they receive exemptions from critical federal laws and because the taxpayers, in many cases, built their stadiums and otherwise subsidized them financially.
So do millions of other businesses and people. If every person/entity that received those monies owes us an explanation of how they're running their business/lives, that's all we'd hear every day all day.

nsolo
06-30-2013, 02:23 PM
The Sox don't owe any of us a thing. You don't have to buy the product.

The most foolish thing the FO could do is go public with their rebuild strategy before the deadline.

I Do believe that I don't HAVE to buy the product, but yet we do. For a company or organization to say, "sorry you spent your hard earned dollars on our crappy product, but we didn't twist your arm to do it" is a sure sign of an organization sprinting towards the bottom.

I too would like to hear of a plan, but at this point it wouldn't have a positive benefit. Also, would it be truthful? What you might hear would only tick you off more (e.g. "the fans need to buy more tickets").

nsolo
06-30-2013, 02:28 PM
Looking at the everyday lineup of position players, there's not much there for the future. Perhaps Beckham. Maybe Gillaspie. An optimist might say Viciedo. That's it, and that's probably stretching it.

My nomination for understatement of the year.:rolleyes:

SI1020
06-30-2013, 02:44 PM
Little Nell before I make even the shortest and simplest of posts I remind myself someone is likely to tell me in words and/or emoticons what a complete and worthless idiot I am. I'm with you. The team has me beyond exasperation. Believe me if they continue to flounder for a few more years, and the Cubs have even the most modest upturn they will be beyond irrelevant. They're close to that now. I understand the passion and the frustration. We cancelled our Tropicana Dome trip too.

thomas35forever
06-30-2013, 02:53 PM
Sure, we're owed an explanation. That doesn't mean we'll get it though. The chairman isn't going to alienate even more of the fan base by being brutally honest. If he did, the attendance would go back to the late 90s levels. No right-thinking owner is going to say "We suck, there's no clear plan, go spend your money elsewhere."

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 02:57 PM
Little Nell before I make even the shortest and simplest of posts I remind myself someone is likely to tell me in words and/or emoticons what a complete and worthless idiot I am. I'm with you. The team has me beyond exasperation. Believe me if they continue to flounder for a few more years, and the Cubs have even the most modest upturn they will be beyond irrelevant. They're close to that now. I understand the passion and the frustration. We cancelled our Tropicana Dome trip too.

We are the 5th team in popularity in Chicago right now and the Fire one day might overtake us as more as more kids are playing soccer these days.
As for your other point, I think most posters on this site enjoy the site and post intelligent insights, there seems to be a few who have joined only to demean and ridicule other members. I try not to get in arguements with people I don't know or have never met and don't ever want to meet.

doublem23
06-30-2013, 03:10 PM
Little Nell before I make even the shortest and simplest of posts I remind myself someone is likely to tell me in words and/or emoticons what a complete and worthless idiot I am. I'm with you. The team has me beyond exasperation. Believe me if they continue to flounder for a few more years, and the Cubs have even the most modest upturn they will be beyond irrelevant. They're close to that now. I understand the passion and the frustration. We cancelled our Tropicana Dome trip too.

Then don't ****in get worked up over it. It's sports, guys. SPORTS. Sometimes your favorite baseball team is just bad. The Sox were basically irrelevant in the mid-to-late '90s, buried behind the dynasty Bulls and the Sammy & Co. Cubs and low and behold, they wound up having arguably the best decade in team history immediately following.

Getting all pouty and throwing a temper tantrum about how you're "owed" an explanation isn't going to make anything better. If JR came out tomorrow and talked about how ****ty the team was or fired Hahn or Ventura would that really make watching Gordon Beckham tackling Gillaspie in the 9th more palatable? Would it make watching Viciedo or De Aza lose track of the number of outs in the inning better? No, the team would still be ****ty. Just have to ride it out until they're not ****ty any more. :shrug:

Brian26
06-30-2013, 03:13 PM
We are the 5th team in popularity in Chicago right now and the Fire one day might overtake us as more as more kids are playing soccer these days.


Don't worry, by the time that happens, the Blackhawks will suck again and 90% of the bandwagon fanbase will be rooting for whatever hot team is happening (no disrespect to the hardcores here.)

Brian26
06-30-2013, 03:19 PM
Then don't ****in get worked up over it. It's sports, guys. SPORTS. Sometimes your favorite baseball team is just bad. The Sox were basically irrelevant in the mid-to-late '90s, buried behind the dynasty Bulls and the Sammy & Co. Cubs and low and behold, they wound up having arguably the best decade in team history immediately following.

Getting all pouty and throwing a temper tantrum about how you're "owed" an explanation isn't going to make anything better.

There are three or four guys here that despise Reinsdorf, and that is their agenda. This stuff is predictable at this point.

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 03:23 PM
Then don't ****in get worked up over it. It's sports, guys. SPORTS. Sometimes your favorite baseball team is just bad. The Sox were basically irrelevant in the mid-to-late '90s, buried behind the dynasty Bulls and the Sammy & Co. Cubs and low and behold, they wound up having arguably the best decade in team history immediately following.

Getting all pouty and throwing a temper tantrum about how you're "owed" an explanation isn't going to make anything better.

Maybe I should have said that management owes the fans an apology over the crappy things we have seen so far. If you are not that bothered by all this that's fine, everybody is different. I am a very emotional person when it comes to White Sox baseball and have invested over 60 years of passion with this team and if I want to be pouty and throw temper tantrums, thats my perogative.

SI1020
06-30-2013, 03:41 PM
There are three or four guys here that despise Reinsdorf, and that is their agenda. This stuff is predictable at this point. His tenure has been a very mixed bag. I believe I've said on more than one occasion I admire his Horatio Alger personal success story. Some things he's said and done have made me angry, but that's life. Not hate. I really wish we could get to a point that didn't equate every criticism as a hate crime. It gets tiresome. Especially for someone like me who is such a cupcake in person.

TaylorStSox
06-30-2013, 03:43 PM
Maybe I should have said that management owes the fans an apology over the crappy things we have seen so far. If you are not that bothered by all this that's fine, everybody is different. I am a very emotional person when it comes to White Sox baseball and have invested over 60 years of passion with this team and if I want to be pouty and throw temper tantrums, thats my perogative.

9th highest payroll. 25th highest attendance. They owe us an apology? :scratch:

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 03:50 PM
9th highest payroll. 25th highest attendance. They owe us an apology? :scratch:

For the crappy play, yes.

TaylorStSox
06-30-2013, 03:53 PM
For the crappy play, yes.

Call Hahn and tell him you want 20 individual calls from the 20 players performing under expectations.

Noneck
06-30-2013, 04:05 PM
No explanation needed, anyone with baseball sense sees what happened. What are they planning in the future? Keep your eyes and ears open, we will see. Actions speak louder than words.

Brian26
06-30-2013, 04:07 PM
His tenure has been a very mixed bag. I believe I've said on more than one occasion I admire his Horatio Alger personal success story. Some things he's said and done have made me angry, but that's life. Not hate. I really wish we could get to a point that didn't equate every criticism as a hate crime. It gets tiresome. Especially for someone like me who is such a cupcake in person.

SI, I wasn't including you, for the record. I know Lip and Nell have a grudge against JR for things that happened 30 years ago.

Harry Chappas
06-30-2013, 04:58 PM
Don't worry, by the time that happens, the Blackhawks will suck again and 90% of the bandwagon fanbase will be rooting for whatever hot team is happening (no disrespect to the hardcores here.)

Don't hold your breath. Unlike the Sox, the Hawks front office isn't going to let this opportunity pass them by. These kids that are sporting Kane jerseys are future season ticket holders. And for the life of me, and can't understand the resentment some feel over the Hawks newfound popularity. As a Sox fan, it's upsetting that the organization failed to capitalize on '05. I couldn't care less if people jumped on the bandwagon. The more the merrier...

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 05:11 PM
SI, I wasn't including you, for the record. I know Lip and Nell have a grudge against JR for things that happened 30 years ago.

I don't hate the man but yes I'm not happy with what he's done over the years.
To this day I don't believe old Comiskey could not have been saved. JR wanted out of the Southside and when the Addison thing fell through he had to settle for a new park in the same location with the best lease in pro sports. Poor fellow.
All this in addition to a threat to move the team to St. Pete.


I guess he gets a pass from a lot of you for 2005, if that didn't happen, how would people feel.

I was not a fan of Bill Veeck either plus the second time around he had hardly any money to run the team. Free agency did him in. Art Allyn was ok as we had 3 straight years of 90 plus wins in a row and almost stole a pennant in 67. Art Allyns big mistake was leaving WGN and going to UHF when very few had TVs with UHF. John Allyn ran out of money also. The poor Comiskey family never recovered from 1919, despite that, the 50s were great under Chuck Comiskey but his sister stabbed him in the back and sold her majority portion to Veeck in his first term as owner, he turns around and trades away some great young talent.

Bottom line is that the Sox down through the years have not been blessed with great ownership.

Golden Sox
06-30-2013, 05:14 PM
1) The Good: The attendance hasn't been bad this year. When you consider how bad the weather has been this spring and factor in the White Sox are a last place team. I read an article on another website earlier this year where the writer pointed out how the White Sox went crazy with their ticket prices after the 2005 season. He maintained that if the White Sox would of had lower ticket prices they would of drawn more people the last few years. It looks like he was right. They drew 81,000 people this weekend against the Indians. These lower ticket prices have proven to be popular. Hopefully they will continue this practice of lower ticket prices in the coming seasons.
2) The Bad: The White Sox management doesn't owe us any explanation about what has happened this miserable 2013 season. I am surprised that Rick Hahn has done absolutely NOTHING with this team the past month. It's hard to believe he hasn't done something/anything to change this sinking ship. Usually when a team tanks like this one has done, some sort of change is made. I'm just hoping he does SOMETHING before this season ends.

TheVulture
06-30-2013, 05:23 PM
9th highest payroll. 25th highest attendance. They owe us an apology? :scratch:


You could pay the '03 Tigers a billion dollars, wouldn't mean anyone would want to watch them play anymore than if they were all on minimum salary.

Dan H
06-30-2013, 05:47 PM
White Sox management can do what it wants and not explain anything. We can do what we want and not bother going to see its lousy excuse for a franchise.

It's funny how some defend management' rights but foam at the mouth when the stadium is more than half empty and demand to know why fans don't come out.

Of course, the team can do what it wants. However, it is in a people-pleasing, customer service related business. The worst thing for the Sox right now is not its on-the-field play as bad as that is. It is leaving the impression that there is no sense of urgency or that they don't know what they are doing to dig themselves out of this mess. Even the most die-hard fan will stay away if there is a loss of confidence in ownership. I can put up with losing for a time; I have already done enough of that as a Sox fan. But it is another story if I think ownership is totally inept. And I really think this management doesn't have the ability to change things.

WLL1855
06-30-2013, 07:15 PM
Part of the problem is that there are two clear groups on the team: the young guys and the old horses.

The old horses aren't going to be around much more than a year or two. Most of the young guys have shown that they aren't starter material for the club.

So what do you do? Seems like everyone wants the manager's head on a stick. How's that going to fix things?

Tragg
06-30-2013, 07:23 PM
9th highest payroll. 25th highest attendance. They owe us an apology? :scratch:

Fans go to the park for Ws, for which we are tied for 27th.
They don't go to the park to watch payrolls for the sake of payroll.

anewman35
06-30-2013, 07:32 PM
The team sucks, and there aren't very good prospects for the next couple years not being miserable. It sucks, but it is what it is. If you've been paying attention at all, you know what all the problems are, and I'm sure the front office does too, but knowing the problems doesn't make them easy to fix. An "explanation" would be utterly pointless.

soltrain21
06-30-2013, 07:47 PM
Never once in sports has what you want to happen, happen. And if Hahn comes out and explains exactly what he is going to do, I would probably stop paying attention forever.

The entitlement is insane.

slavko
06-30-2013, 07:52 PM
No explanation needed, anyone with baseball sense sees what happened. What are they planning in the future? Keep your eyes and ears open, we will see. Actions speak louder than words.

Auctions speak louder than words. We're about to see one, please. I hope Hahn has the skills of a Frank Lane hidden somewhere. Since Hahn is the German word for rooster, I hope he's not chicken. :redface:

Noneck
06-30-2013, 08:09 PM
Auctions speak louder than words. We're about to see one, please. I hope Hahn has the skills of a Frank Lane hidden somewhere. Since Hahn is the German word for rooster, I hope he's not chicken. :redface:

Auctions are a tangible good for money. I sure hope that is not what this organization has in mind. Unless it is the total organization up for auction.

TaylorStSox
06-30-2013, 08:17 PM
Fans go to the park for Ws, for which we are tied for 27th.
They don't go to the park to watch payrolls for the sake of payroll.

The point is that the team continues to have a high payroll despite struggling to get fans into the park. They don't owe us ****. The players aren't living up their end of the bargain. It's that simple.

Domeshot17
06-30-2013, 08:23 PM
The Sox owe us nothing, and we owe them nothing. As much as I love the White Sox, and will never cheer for another team, they are a product that I can choose to enjoy or ignore. Like an expensive car that is a disaster and breaks down all the time, the price they spend means nothing to the fan base. They may as well have a 30 million payroll if this is the results they get. They pay executives a lot of money to find talent and put out a competitive team. Kenny Williams did his job a couple times over his GM tenure and got promoted. Rick Hahn was highly touted, but yet to prove he can find young talent (will take a few years to see the results of this).

For almost 6 years now the White Sox have given us a product that has the talent of a .500 ball club and they hope everything goes right and we sneak into the playoffs.

Until they figure it out, Fans will just continue to ignore them. If Sony kept putting out TV's that were the 10th most expensive in a market of 100 options, and the picture just sucked, year after year, people would stop buying them until Sony proved they could make a good TV. Sony would then have 2 options, sell the ****ty TV for less money, or make a better TV.

The White Sox choose to sell us a ****ty tv for less money this year. Maybe in the future they will figure it out.

Domeshot17
06-30-2013, 08:23 PM
The point is that the team continues to have a high payroll despite struggling to get fans into the park. They don't owe us ****. The players aren't living up their end of the bargain. It's that simple.

Or one could point to the fact we spend money poorly, and our executives, starting with Kenny, are not really that great at their job.

mahagga73
06-30-2013, 08:25 PM
I'm sure they will be crippled by the $30 they don't get from you.

I don't know why people think the teams they are fans of owe them anything. I think there's quite a few franchises in MLB that have proven you don't even need fans to make money. What do you want? A weekly State of the Sox address? Them to post opinion polls on certain players and make deals based on the fans' desires? It's their team. They're going to run it however they want. They don't owe us a dang thing.
Sorry, but that's the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever read. He wasn't saying there should be a weekly address or polls, you just said that to make yourself look all smarty pants . Of course they owe the fans an explanation of what they are going to do to fix this if they expect ANY to show up for the rest this season and beyond. The longer it becomes apparent they have no idea what they are doing the less fans are going to come and watch this debacle. That's like saying a car company doesn't owe consumers an explanation for why the car blows up after 70,000 miles. If they want any business they will provide a solution and an explanation. I have serious doubts this group has a clue personally. All KW and associates should have been shown the door after it became apparent they were not capable of putting together a consistent playoff contender. Instead, KW was promoted and his right hand man was made GM. That is the definition of baseball insanity. The White Sox need a fresh start with new blood in the front office.

mahagga73
06-30-2013, 08:27 PM
The point is that the team continues to have a high payroll despite struggling to get fans into the park. They don't owe us ****. The players aren't living up their end of the bargain. It's that simple.
So they have a high payroll , so what? Did it ever occur to you pretty much every player on the team is overpaid and KW and company have done a poor job and deserve criticism.

SCCWS
06-30-2013, 08:32 PM
The good news is the Sox are worse than the Cubs. We will get a higher draft choice than they will.

SI1020
06-30-2013, 08:33 PM
Auctions speak louder than words. We're about to see one, please. I hope Hahn has the skills of a Frank Lane hidden somewhere. Since Hahn is the German word for rooster, I hope he's not chicken. :redface: He got Billy Pierce, Nellie Fox, Minnie Minoso and Sherm Lollar for very little in return. This helped jump start the go go era. It would be great if Hahn could channel his inner Frank Lane.

Domeshot17
06-30-2013, 08:35 PM
Sorry, but that's the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever read. He wasn't saying there should be a weekly address or polls, you just said that to make yourself look all smarty pants . Of course they owe the fans an explanation of what they are going to do to fix this if they expect ANY to show up for the rest this season and beyond. The longer it becomes apparent they have no idea what they are doing the less fans are going to come and watch this debacle. That's like saying a car company doesn't owe consumers an explanation for why the car blows up after 70,000 miles. If they want any business they will provide a solution and an explanation. I have serious doubts this group has a clue personally. All KW and associates should have been shown the door after it became apparent they were not capable of putting together a consistent playoff contender. Instead, KW was promoted and his right hand man was made GM. That is the definition of baseball insanity. The White Sox need a fresh start with new blood in the front office.

But the car company DOESN'T owe the consumer any explanation. Again, it would make sense, it engages the consumer, but if Chevy made a car called the lightning rod and it sold a lot of units each year, and it also died at 75k miles every year, and Chevy told you nothing, then the ball is in your court as a consumer. If you are a chevy loyalist, but you continue to buy a lightning rod, you are wrong, not Chevy. The only way Chevy has to build a better car is by making the lightning rod a reliable vehicle.

anewman35
06-30-2013, 08:36 PM
So they have a high payroll , so what? Did it ever occur to you pretty much every player on the team is overpaid and KW and company have done a poor job and deserve criticism.

Did anybody say that KW and the front office didn't deserve criticism?

I think the point is there's a difference between a team that's just not trying and a team that tries and fails horribly. The White Sox front office/ownership was trying to be good (maybe not trying hard enough, but they were trying). They aren't the Marlins. You can criticize the way things turned out all you want, but it's silly to want them to explain themselves - what happened is fairly obvious to anybody who's been watching and knows anything about baseball.

mahagga73
06-30-2013, 08:40 PM
Did anybody say that KW and the front office didn't deserve criticism?

I think the point is there's a difference between a team that's just not trying and a team that tries and fails horribly. The White Sox front office/ownership was trying to be good (maybe not trying hard enough, but they were trying). They aren't the Marlins. You can criticize the way things turned out all you want, but it's silly to want them to explain themselves - what happened is fairly obvious to anybody who's been watching and knows anything about baseball.
I personally don't expect an explanation , I am not saying that , but it would be nice , as well as some sort of evidence they know what they are doing. The condition of the farm system , what is being done to fix that, whatever they are doing is not working. And the people responsible are promoted ,lol.

pudge
06-30-2013, 08:56 PM
Then don't ****in get worked up over it. It's sports, guys. SPORTS. Sometimes your favorite baseball team is just bad. The Sox were basically irrelevant in the mid-to-late '90s, buried behind the dynasty Bulls and the Sammy & Co. Cubs and low and behold, they wound up having arguably the best decade in team history immediately following.

Getting all pouty and throwing a temper tantrum about how you're "owed" an explanation isn't going to make anything better. If JR came out tomorrow and talked about how ****ty the team was or fired Hahn or Ventura would that really make watching Gordon Beckham tackling Gillaspie in the 9th more palatable? Would it make watching Viciedo or De Aza lose track of the number of outs in the inning better? No, the team would still be ****ty. Just have to ride it out until they're not ****ty any more. :shrug:

That is a pretty narrow view of the original poster's comments, and you may be seeing it with a pre-conceived notion of the original poster that I don't have, which is fine. But I interpret it differently. I look at how the Bears approach to their public relations changed so drastically with Angelo and Lovie out. The new GM has been pretty transparent, or at least as much as he could be without tipping his hand. Not only is it refreshing, it's been well received and actually makes me want to watch and root for the organization. It's called PR, marketing, whatever you want to call it. I think Hahn's recent comments about being sick about this team are a step in that direction. But I have no problem with what the original poster has said. This organization is a mess right now, period. It's not JR who needs to say something, that is not his role, but at least the GM, or even Kenny if he is still involved. It would be nice if after the trade deadline someone came out and gave us at least a hint about where it's all going. Heck, even the Cubs at this point are doing a million times better at explaining their plan.

mahagga73
06-30-2013, 09:12 PM
That is a pretty narrow view of the original poster's comments, and you may be seeing it with a pre-conceived notion of the original poster that I don't have, which is fine. But I interpret it differently. I look at how the Bears approach to their public relations changed so drastically with Angelo and Lovie out. The new GM has been pretty transparent, or at least as much as he could be without tipping his hand. Not only is it refreshing, it's been well received and actually makes me want to watch and root for the organization. It's called PR, marketing, whatever you want to call it. I think Hahn's recent comments about being sick about this team are a step in that direction. But I have no problem with what the original poster has said. This organization is a mess right now, period. It's not JR who needs to say something, that is not his role, but at least the GM, or even Kenny if he is still involved. It would be nice if after the trade deadline someone came out and gave us at least a hint about where it's all going. Heck, even the Cubs at this point are doing a million times better at explaining their plan.
I agree ,though I'm not a Bear's fan. And yes, if JR did come out and clean house IT WOULD make watching this team much more bearable.

TomBradley72
06-30-2013, 09:13 PM
Any "explanation" would be awkward since it would involve Hahn highlighting the mistakes his boss made- ****ed up, barren farm system, overpriced veteran contracts for Dunn, Danks, etc., weak talent assessment or development (Viciedo, Flowers) and hiring a manager with zero experience at any level.

Like if Hoyer and Epstein were reporting to Hendry.

tstrike2000
06-30-2013, 09:34 PM
The explanation we'll get will be taking offers for pretty much every player except for whoever the Sox said, I think Sale and Konerko. Underperformance, bad players, coaching, chemistry, or whatever, we just have to accept at this point that this is what it is. Mentally, this team reminds me a little of 2011. We all of a sudden can't catch the ball and we can't hit the ball. There's blame to be shared from Hahn all the way down. With the team closing in on 50 losses in the first week of July, it's not going to get any better once we trade guys like Jesse Crain. Just hope we get some good return and see what happens in '14.

mahagga73
06-30-2013, 09:37 PM
The explanation we'll get will be taking offers for pretty much every player except for whoever the Sox said, I think Sale and Konerko. Underperformance, bad players, coaching, chemistry, or whatever, we just have to accept at this point that this is what it is. Mentally, this team reminds me a little of 2011. We all of a sudden can't catch the ball and we can't hit the ball. There's blame to be shared from Hahn all the way down. With the team closing in on 50 losses in the first week of July, it's not going to get any better once we trade guys like Jesse Crain. Just hope we get some good return and see what happens in '14.
They need to change managers too because if they get some new players or youngsters that are going to be part of the solution there is no point keeping a lame duck manager around. I don't think Ventura want's this gig past this year anyway.

tstrike2000
06-30-2013, 09:51 PM
They need to change managers too because if they get some new players or youngsters that are going to be part of the solution there is no point keeping a lame duck manager around. I don't think Ventura want's this gig past this year anyway.

Because Robin is mild mannered, it's hard to tell what he's thinking. Personally, he looks defeated and ready to move on, but who knows.

canOcorn
06-30-2013, 09:54 PM
The Sox owe us nothing, and we owe them nothing. As much as I love the White Sox, and will never cheer for another team, they are a product that I can choose to enjoy or ignore. Like an expensive car that is a disaster and breaks down all the time, the price they spend means nothing to the fan base. They may as well have a 30 million payroll if this is the results they get. They pay executives a lot of money to find talent and put out a competitive team. Kenny Williams did his job a couple times over his GM tenure and got promoted. Rick Hahn was highly touted, but yet to prove he can find young talent (will take a few years to see the results of this).

For almost 6 years now the White Sox have given us a product that has the talent of a .500 ball club and they hope everything goes right and we sneak into the playoffs.

Until they figure it out, Fans will just continue to ignore them. If Sony kept putting out TV's that were the 10th most expensive in a market of 100 options, and the picture just sucked, year after year, people would stop buying them until Sony proved they could make a good TV. Sony would then have 2 options, sell the ****ty TV for less money, or make a better TV.

The White Sox choose to sell us a ****ty tv for less money this year. Maybe in the future they will figure it out.

Pretty much spot on....JR has made gigantic profits on a yearly basis, let alone considering the profit on his groups initial investment of $30M. He's grown that to $500M+ in 30 years. Actual butts in the seats are just extra bucks in their pocket with the way the TV contracts are these days.

Jerry might put enough into payroll to look like they're being legit, but then they cut everything else to the bare bones. Our MiLB 'organization' is basically clown shoes. I'd be very happy if he just took his profit and went away. Sadly, the Sox are a cash cow and that doesn't look likely.

TaylorStSox
06-30-2013, 09:54 PM
Any "explanation" would be awkward since it would involve Hahn highlighting the mistakes his boss made- ****ed up, barren farm system, overpriced veteran contracts for Dunn, Danks, etc., weak talent assessment or development (Viciedo, Flowers) and hiring a manager with zero experience at any level.

Like if Hoyer and Epstein were reporting to Hendry.

While not great, the farm system isn't barren and the draft philosophy has been completely overhauled.

Dunn and Danks signed market to below market value deals. Few could have predicted Viciedo was going to regress this much. They had to see what they had in Flowers. If the rest of the lineup was playing to expectations, they could afford to hide him in the lineup or replace him.

Pretty much every move the Sox have made in the last couple years went horribly wrong, but they weren't necessarily bad moves. It sucks that we're in this position, but I'm not mad about the approach of management. I certainly don't expect a ****ing explanation, let alone an apology. I'm a big boy. I can figure it out for myself.

BainesHOF
06-30-2013, 10:13 PM
Seems like everyone wants the manager's head on a stick. How's that going to fix things?

It will help fix things because the managing will improve.

Brian26
06-30-2013, 10:47 PM
Don't hold your breath. Unlike the Sox, the Hawks front office isn't going to let this opportunity pass them by. These kids that are sporting Kane jerseys are future season ticket holders. And for the life of me, and can't understand the resentment some feel over the Hawks newfound popularity. As a Sox fan, it's upsetting that the organization failed to capitalize on '05. I couldn't care less if people jumped on the bandwagon. The more the merrier...

No resentment here. Kids don't play hockey here though like they do in Michigan. It's still a niche sport. You have no idea what's going to happen in the future. The '85 Bears only won the title one time. One injury mucks it all up. I am surprised that so many people have a hard time with the concept of cyclical success in sports. It is quite a grand statement though to say hockey will be more popular than baseball. Ain't going to happen. I love the Hawks though.

It's silly to say the Sox are at fault that they couldn't capitalize. They went all-in with Thome and Vazquez in 2006. They won 90 games. It's just some bad luck considering what happened. 2007 was an anomaly because of the injuries. They rebounded in 2008 and could have easily gone to the World Series if Quentin and Crede were healthy. The series with the Rays was winnable. Crap happens. Now they suck again like they did in the late 80s. The bad part is that Frank and Robin are not waiting in the wings.

WLL1855
07-01-2013, 12:30 AM
It will help fix things because the managing will improve.

You could bring in Sparky Anderson and things wouldn't be any better.

captain54
07-01-2013, 02:11 AM
I am surprised that so many people have a hard time with the concept of cyclical success in sports.

It's silly to say the Sox are at fault that they couldn't capitalize. .

This is a major market franchise with money to spend playing in a weak division. For all the breaks that didn't go their way since 06', a lot went their way in 05'. The state of the Sox has more to do with other factors, rather than the baseball Gods smiling or frowning down upon them. Like putting people in positions of authority based upon loyalty rather than performance

This is a lot worse than just the normal cycle of being bad once in a blue moon. This is a deeply flawed organization that got exposed.

fungo bat
07-01-2013, 03:34 AM
Yesterday you had no comment as to whether the Sox are buyers or sellers in the marketplace.

Hey Rick, the Sox are 15 games under .500, playing miserable baseball and sitting in last place in the AL Central.

What exactly are you watching? How naive do you think Sox fans are? The Sox as buyers? You have got to be kidding.

You currently own the rights to several players that are attractive to contending teams - guys like Crain, Rios, Thornton, Konerko, Peavy (when he's healthy). The Yankees may even be willing to take Dunn's fat contract off our hands (or at least be willing to pay a portion of it) with the loss of Texiera.

Time to back up the truck and start looking toward the future. Don't try to bull**** us or anyone else. This team is going nowhere. It's time to start listening to any and all offers.

Last week you stated that every player was available with the exception of Sale and Konerko. And now you have no comment regarding whether the Sox are sellers or buyers?

Come on. Get real. Sox fans deserve better than this.

DrCrawdad
07-01-2013, 05:03 AM
This article (http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/448/article/p2p-76510040/) makes it clear to me that Hahn knows what's up with the Sox and that he's ready to deal.

asindc
07-01-2013, 07:33 AM
The point is that the team continues to have a high payroll despite struggling to get fans into the park. They don't owe us ****. The players aren't living up their end of the bargain. It's that simple.

Post of the thread. There seems to be a segment of fandom that are adamant in blaming management for the players' subpar play instead of blaming the people most responsible for such.

LITTLE NELL
07-01-2013, 07:38 AM
Post of the thread. There seems to be a segment of fandom that are adamant in blaming management for the players' subpar play instead of blaming the people most responsible for such.

Good point but when a player is going bad and needs a benching, management has done such a bad job with the farm system that the best we can do when we bring someone up is Jordan Danks and Tyler Greene. when we need a pitcher we get Brian Omogrosso. So sad.

asindc
07-01-2013, 08:15 AM
Good point but when a player is going bad and needs a benching, management has done such a bad job with the farm system that the best we can do when we bring someone up is Jordan Danks and Tyler Greene. when we need a pitcher we get Brian Omogrosso. So sad.

Oh, I wasn't speaking of your posts in particular, but those who blame management for the poor play of Dunn, Alexei, and other veterans who have performed much better in the past and who management had no reason suspect would perform this badly now. Management should be held accountable for things squarely within their control like the farm system and bad trades, but blaming them for underperforming vets is Monday morning QBing. What they do about it is within their control. We will see.

Frater Perdurabo
07-01-2013, 08:18 AM
Yes, Hahn definitely should repeatedly announce to the world, in no uncertain terms, that all his trade chips are available to the first bidder, just to satisfy the meatball bloodlust. :rolleyes:


Impulsiveness is part of the reason we are where we are now. I hope Hahn is quiet, methodical and thorough.

Golden Sox
07-01-2013, 09:43 AM
canOcorn: JR's investment group paid $20 million for the White Sox when they bought the team from Bill Veeck after the 1980 season. With the stadium contract and TV deals the White Sox have, I would think the White Sox are worth alot more than $500 million dollars.

TomBradley72
07-01-2013, 01:00 PM
While not great, the farm system isn't barren and the draft philosophy has been completely overhauled.

Dunn and Danks signed market to below market value deals. Few could have predicted Viciedo was going to regress this much. They had to see what they had in Flowers. If the rest of the lineup was playing to expectations, they could afford to hide him in the lineup or replace him.

Pretty much every move the Sox have made in the last couple years went horribly wrong, but they weren't necessarily bad moves. It sucks that we're in this position, but I'm not mad about the approach of management. I certainly don't expect a ****ing explanation, let alone an apology. I'm a big boy. I can figure it out for myself.

By what standard? Take a look at the AAA and AA rosters- other than E. Johnson and J. Phegley- not much to work with.

doublem23
07-01-2013, 01:41 PM
By what standard? Take a look at the AAA and AA rosters- other than E. Johnson and J. Phegley- not much to work with.

Just imagine one day there might be more than 2 teams in the farm system...

Tragg
07-01-2013, 01:51 PM
This article (http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/448/article/p2p-76510040/) makes it clear to me that Hahn knows what's up with the Sox and that he's ready to deal.
"High impact, premium talent" - I like it. It likely means we take players a year or 2 from the majors, but that's okay too. Sure beats betting a bunch of Gillespies (no knock on him - he's a useful bench player who was ML ready).

Bobby Thigpen
07-01-2013, 02:00 PM
just imagine one day there might be more than 2 teams in the farm system...
+1

TomBradley72
07-01-2013, 02:01 PM
Just imagine one day there might be more than 2 teams in the farm system...

Have at it- Kannapolis isn't much better- AAA/AA levels are typically where you'll find anyone that is going to help < 2 years.

TomBradley72
07-01-2013, 02:05 PM
+1

+1 to what?

Potshots are awesome- feel free to make the case for our awesome talent below AA and how our minor leaguse system is not "barren" due to the great talent we have at that level.

Kannapolis was 2nd to last place in the 1st half with a .397 winning percentage- 3/4 starting pitchers w/ERA > 5.00.

TaylorStSox
07-01-2013, 02:09 PM
Have at it- Kannapolis isn't much better- AAA/AA levels are typically where you'll find anyone that is going to help < 2 years.

Thompson, Webb, Sanchez, Castro and Walker all have legitimate shots at being contributors. The lower levels have a lot of high upside talent. Yeah, they're more than 2 years off, just like 99% of all players at the low levels. The farm system is far from good, but it's not as barren as you'd like everyone to believe. Lets see where we're at after the deadline.

TomBradley72
07-01-2013, 02:21 PM
Whatever you guys are smoking- please share.:cool:

I hope you're right- I just don't see it.

Harry Chappas
07-01-2013, 02:39 PM
No resentment here. Kids don't play hockey here though like they do in Michigan. It's still a niche sport. You have no idea what's going to happen in the future. The '85 Bears only won the title one time. One injury mucks it all up. I am surprised that so many people have a hard time with the concept of cyclical success in sports. It is quite a grand statement though to say hockey will be more popular than baseball. Ain't going to happen. I love the Hawks though.

It's silly to say the Sox are at fault that they couldn't capitalize. They went all-in with Thome and Vazquez in 2006. They won 90 games. It's just some bad luck considering what happened. 2007 was an anomaly because of the injuries. They rebounded in 2008 and could have easily gone to the World Series if Quentin and Crede were healthy. The series with the Rays was winnable. Crap happens. Now they suck again like they did in the late 80s. The bad part is that Frank and Robin are not waiting in the wings.

You're right - I can't predict the future, but I'm comfortable in predicting that the Hawks will continue to thrive even if they have a few sub par seasons. The seeds have been planted. The Bulls went through some 'dark days' post-Jordan retirement and still managed to draw well. I see the same for the Hawks. Hockey will probably remain somewhat of a "niche" sport due in large part to the cost/time commitment of youth hockey (been there). But I think you'll start to see more programs in the coming years. It won't ever be as popular as baseball in terms of youth participation, but in terms of fan support of the professional franchise, I think they've already surpassed the White Sox.

I don't think the Sox were at fault based on roster moves but I think their entire marketing strategy, post '05, was weak. I can't tell you exactly what they didn't do, but it's sort of hard to fathom how a Chicago team could win a championship in baseball and only see a one year "bump" in attendance. Remember, this is a city that still treats the '85 Bears as royalty.

Domeshot17
07-01-2013, 02:45 PM
Whatever you guys are smoking- please share.:cool:

I hope you're right- I just don't see it.

The problem is most people don't follow prospects that much, so anyone who has a chance to be a bench guy, or a back end SP gets this incredible "high upside" label.

We don't have a starting pitcher in our minor league system (and for now, discounting this years draft because we have not seen any kind of sample size of the young kids) that profiles above a number 3. We have some guys who profile and have a shot to be GOOD 3-4-5 SP, but there is not a legit number 1. Its also really tough to say, with a straight face, we have a future 3 or 4 hitter in our minors. Hawkins could maybe get there, but he is not really projectable.

This is why, even when "rebuilt", we still have a bottom 5 farm in the major leagues. It will take several years with a Hahn style draft philosophy "high upside risky players" like this year to rebuild the farm. The only way to rebuild your farm in 1 draft is to lose a ton of Type A/B guys in FA and end up with 4-6 picks in the top 3 rounds.

SI1020
07-01-2013, 02:51 PM
Thompson, Webb, Sanchez, Castro and Walker all have legitimate shots at being contributors. The lower levels have a lot of high upside talent. Yeah, they're more than 2 years off, just like 99% of all players at the low levels. The farm system is far from good, but it's not as barren as you'd like everyone to believe. Lets see where we're at after the deadline. I certainly would like you to be right, but with the possible exception of Thompson, none of these players has convinced me they have a legitimate shot to be contributors for even a team as lousy as the White Sox.

TaylorStSox
07-01-2013, 02:54 PM
There aren't any future aces, but half the organizations in baseball don't have an ace anywhere, including the MLB club. Johnson and Beck have the ability to be front line starters though.

Hitmen77
07-01-2013, 03:15 PM
JR needs to come forward an explain what's going on with this franchise. It's great that he has a great stadium contract and is making money and hardly pays any rent. Is he happy just to make money and let the fans suffer?
I want to know what the plans are for the team, no one says anything. Are we going to rebuild? Are we going to make trades. Are we going to start investing more in our Minor League program? Are we going to spend tons of money in free agents after the season. Someone needs come forward and tell us what the plan is. Right now we have a worse record than the stinking Cubs but they at least have told their fans that they are in a rebuilding phase and be patient.
Yesterday was the first time since I moved to Florida that I did not watch a Sox game on WGN, I'm only able to get games on WGN and ESPN. We also will not be making our annual trip over to TB next week to see the Sox and Rays. I will not spend one cent of my retirement income to watch a team playing like a bunch of clowns.

Nell,
I totally understand your frustration. I don't think Sox management should be announcing to us what their plan is. It's not like I expect Hahn to take to the airwaves and say "we suck and I can't wait to blow this up by the trading deadline". But, unlike other posters, I'm not going to mock your venting of your frustration at this team.

We're all pissed at how awful this team is. Reading all the comments in the other threads about lousy service at the Cell just makes me think there is an organization-wide problem to poorly this franchise is being run at this time. I don't need Rick Hahn to tell me his plans, but I sure hope he and Sox management have a good plan for turning this organization around.


It's silly to say the Sox are at fault that they couldn't capitalize. They went all-in with Thome and Vazquez in 2006. They won 90 games. It's just some bad luck considering what happened. 2007 was an anomaly because of the injuries. They rebounded in 2008 and could have easily gone to the World Series if Quentin and Crede were healthy. The series with the Rays was winnable. Crap happens. Now they suck again like they did in the late 80s. The bad part is that Frank and Robin are not waiting in the wings.

I think the biggest problem with the Sox in recent years is that they let the farm system pretty much run dry starting in the early 2000s. I have no problem with how they went for a repeat in 2006, but already the window of opportunity was closing on this team at that point.

It isn't the unwillingness to have a high major league payroll that's brought us to this point, it's a lack of organizational depth.

Thompson, Webb, Sanchez, Castro and Walker all have legitimate shots at being contributors. The lower levels have a lot of high upside talent. Yeah, they're more than 2 years off, just like 99% of all players at the low levels. The farm system is far from good, but it's not as barren as you'd like everyone to believe. Lets see where we're at after the deadline.

I hope this is a sign that Sox managment has indeed turned things around with our farm system. Of course, any changes to improve the minors will take a few years to benefit the major league club. These things just take time to come to fruition. In the mean time, if all of our good prospects are still more than 2 years off, I can't blame fans for still wondering why our farm system has sucked to much. Of course, we've already seen Sale, Reed, Quintana and Santiago come up last year. So, we can't say the farm system hasn't produced anything. But this team needs more talent - especially on the position player side. We'll see in a couple of years how these players turn out.

SCCWS
07-01-2013, 03:16 PM
There aren't any future aces, but half the organizations in baseball don't have an ace anywhere, including the MLB club. Johnson and Beck have the ability to be front line starters though.

Not sure what your definition of an ace is. I think yesterday's game featured 2 aces in Sale and Masterson. I think if either was on better teams they would get more support and greater attention.

doublem23
07-01-2013, 04:21 PM
Thompson, Webb, Sanchez, Castro and Walker all have legitimate shots at being contributors. The lower levels have a lot of high upside talent. Yeah, they're more than 2 years off, just like 99% of all players at the low levels. The farm system is far from good, but it's not as barren as you'd like everyone to believe. Lets see where we're at after the deadline.

This draft looks to have a couple of gems in it, as well. I know it's only been a few games at the lowest levels, but I am already in love with Trey Michalczewski. Supposedly was a potential 1st or 2nd round talent that slipped because teams didn't think they could convince him to go pro.

Domeshot17
07-01-2013, 04:29 PM
There aren't any future aces, but half the organizations in baseball don't have an ace anywhere, including the MLB club. Johnson and Beck have the ability to be front line starters though.

But they don't, and that is okay. They do not project to be a 1 or 2, so therefore they are not "front line" quality. Think Gavin Floyd as their ceiling, solid, reliable, good number 3 or 4 on a winning team, and MAYBE a 2 on a BAD team.

There is nothing wrong with the fact they do not profile as a Chris Sale or Jake Peavy Talent.

Domeshot17
07-01-2013, 04:30 PM
This draft looks to have a couple of gems in it, as well. I know it's only been a few games at the lowest levels, but I am already in love with Trey Michalczewski. Supposedly was a potential 1st or 2nd round talent that slipped because teams didn't think they could convince him to go pro.

You had to love Hahn's aggression in this draft. You don't fix a farm in a year, but 2 or 3 more years of this, especially with well executed trades at the deadlines, and we could see a much brighter future ahead of the Sox. Between the draft and the international period (where our farm just hit a monster Home Run), you likely will see 6 of our top 10 being new names added this year (maybe more if you assume we could land some top specs for Rios and Peavy if/when they are dealt).

DirtySox
07-01-2013, 05:01 PM
This draft looks to have a couple of gems in it, as well. I know it's only been a few games at the lowest levels, but I am already in love with Trey Michalczewski. Supposedly was a potential 1st or 2nd round talent that slipped because teams didn't think they could convince him to go pro.

Chez is probably my favorite pick of the draft. The plate discipline he's showing as an 18 year old is fantastic. Picks like Danish, Andrew Mitchell, and some of the other prep arms they grabbed pleased me. The fact that Anderson is thriving with an aggressive assignment as a raw prospect in A-ball is also encouraging. The system is still bottom third, but with a high pick in next year's draft coupled with the Sox actually signing international prospects this year and last year has me hopeful.

DirtySox
07-01-2013, 05:05 PM
But they don't, and that is okay. They do not project to be a 1 or 2, so therefore they are not "front line" quality. Think Gavin Floyd as their ceiling, solid, reliable, good number 3 or 4 on a winning team, and MAYBE a 2 on a BAD team.

There is nothing wrong with the fact they do not profile as a Chris Sale or Jake Peavy Talent.

Yep. Erik Johnson looks like a solid middle of the rotation type which is plenty valuable. Beck has a nice ERA and groundball rate, but he needs to start striking out some more batters. Not entirely sold on him yet.

slavko
07-01-2013, 05:58 PM
This article (http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/448/article/p2p-76510040/) makes it clear to me that Hahn knows what's up with the Sox and that he's ready to deal.

That article looked like an explanation to me. Unless you were expecting a witch burning, it should do for now.

kittle42
07-01-2013, 06:26 PM
I personally think I am owed an explanation from the makers of World War Z as to why it sucks. I paid $18 to see it! I am a customer and zombie enthusiast!

LITTLE NELL
07-01-2013, 06:37 PM
I personally think I am owed an explanation from the makers of World War Z as to why it sucks. I paid $18 to see it! I am a customer and zombie enthusiast!

You need to explain why you paid 18 bucks to see a movie, seriously is that what it costs to see a movie up there?

DSpivack
07-01-2013, 06:40 PM
You need to explain why you paid 18 bucks to see a movie, seriously is that what it costs to see a movie up there?

No. I think Kittle took a trip to Manhattan or something...

voodoochile
07-01-2013, 06:49 PM
If you see it in 3D in an Omnimax theater it might well cost that much depending on where you go. 3D in a standard theater around me is around $11.

LITTLE NELL
07-01-2013, 06:55 PM
If you see it in 3D in an Omnimax theater it might well cost that much depending on where you go. 3D in a standard theater around me is around $11.

The first 3D movie released in 1953 was House of Wax with Vincent Price, I paid 25 cents to see it.

MISoxfan
07-01-2013, 06:56 PM
Not sure what your definition of an ace is. I think yesterday's game featured 2 aces in Sale and Masterson. I think if either was on better teams they would get more support and greater attention.

I think he meant half the teams in baseball don't have an ace in the majors, or a future ace in the minors. I don't think he specifically meant the White Sox and Indians.

SI1020
07-01-2013, 07:01 PM
The first 3D movie released in 1953 was House of Wax with Vincent Price, I paid 25 cents to see it. $2.18 in today's currency.

cv sox fan
07-01-2013, 07:21 PM
do they owe me explanation? probably not but if were open to trade almost everyone i would like someone other than the guys who saw talent in flowers[he was not in titled to a chance] deaza, viceado,keppinger,come on management were fans of the team. every day sloppy play is on players and coaching staff were just going thru the motions.i hope we can some talent but the idiots in charge scare me.i won't rant about our bad signings but we have far more than good signings

voodoochile
07-01-2013, 08:36 PM
The first 3D movie released in 1953 was House of Wax with Vincent Price, I paid 25 cents to see it.

Yeah, I've seen those 3-D movies they sucked. You should check out one of the new ones, worth the extra 3 bucks...

LITTLE NELL
07-01-2013, 08:40 PM
Yeah, I've seen those 3-D movies they sucked. You should check out one of the new ones, worth the extra 3 bucks...

At the time it was a big deal as was Cinerama and CinemaScope, all to combat Television.

Hitmen77
07-01-2013, 10:55 PM
You had to love Hahn's aggression in this draft. You don't fix a farm in a year, but 2 or 3 more years of this, especially with well executed trades at the deadlines, and we could see a much brighter future ahead of the Sox. Between the draft and the international period (where our farm just hit a monster Home Run), you likely will see 6 of our top 10 being new names added this year (maybe more if you assume we could land some top specs for Rios and Peavy if/when they are dealt).

What happened in the international draft?

DirtySox
07-01-2013, 11:24 PM
What happened in the international draft?

There isn't an international draft. The international signing period starts tomorrow. According to Kiley McDaniel as of about a week ago, the Sox reportedly have a deal to sign one of the top prospects in Micker Zapata. Toolsy, powerful, 16 year old outfielder.

GoSox2K3
07-02-2013, 09:22 AM
9th highest payroll. 25th highest attendance. They owe us an apology? :scratch:

:reinsy:
I like the cut of your jib. That kind of fan-friendly empathy for people's frustrations will get you far in this organization. I encourage you to contact HR if you ever want a position in our marketing/PR departments.

Fans go to the park for Ws, for which we are tied for 27th.
They don't go to the park to watch payrolls for the sake of payroll.

Some people think we should be packing the ballpark because the Sox were in 1st place for a few months during the middle of last season before finishing out of the running yet again.

doublem23
07-02-2013, 09:47 AM
Some people think we should be packing the ballpark because the Sox were in 1st place for a few months during the middle of last season before finishing out of the running yet again.

I don't think anyone has said that but good try

kittle42
07-02-2013, 11:07 AM
No. I think Kittle took a trip to Manhattan or something...

3D/amped up sound - nope - saw it right here in lovely Chicago. You can still see "regular" movies for $12 some places, I think.

doublem23
07-02-2013, 11:19 AM
3D/amped up sound - nope - saw it right here in lovely Chicago. You can still see "regular" movies for $12 some places, I think.

You just got to know where to go, theatre my wife and I go to is $6 matinee, $8 evenings... first run.

Bobby Thigpen
07-02-2013, 11:31 AM
Yeah, I've seen those 3-D movies they sucked. You should check out one of the new ones, worth the extra 3 bucks...
All 3 D movies successfully do for me is give me a headache.

cards press box
07-02-2013, 12:15 PM
I think that I have an explantion for the 2013 Sox -- they are having a really bad season. And here are eight reasons why:

(1) Some players, like Alejandro De Aza and Nate Jones, who exceeded expectations last year are underperforming this year;

(2) The Sox have had a lot of injuries: three starting pitchers have missed significant time (Floyd, Danks and Peavy, with Floyd out for at least 2013), Gordon Beckham missed most of the first half and Dayan Viciedo was out for a while;

(3) Paul Konerko is coming to the end of his great big league career and is in decline;

(4) Lack of depth on the big league club and in the minors has been a problem;

(5) The Sox miss A.J., pure and simple;

(6) The Sox defense has really underperformed. This one is really hard to explain, as Gillaspie is an upgrade on Kevin Youkilis defensively. Maybe the drop from AJ to Tyler Flowers and the presence of Adam Dunn at 1B instead of Konerko accounts for the defensive collapse. I don't know;

(7) The Sox do not get on base enough and lack team speed; and

(8) The Sox are really shaky up the middle. Flowers cannot catch and cannot hit. Alexei Ramirez is having a pretty mediocre 2013 despite stealing more bases this year. His power has been way down and his fielding has been eratic. Beckham has been fine but is just coming back from an injury. De Aza is really a fourth outfielder.

sachin
07-02-2013, 12:50 PM
OMG, ABC is showing "The Bachelorette"! That show is terrible -- quick, ABC owes us people watching TV an explanation! OMG, "Monsters University" only got 2 stars -- Pixar owes us fans an explanation! :D:

Guys, this Sox team is lousy, but I didn't pay for any of the players on this team, I'm not a financial investor on this team, and Reinsdorf & Co. are not accountable to me.

I'm a fan. I'm still going to the games TO ENJOY MYSELF WITH FRIENDS & FAMILY, and if they turn around and win 100 games in a row, I still have to go to work tomorrow. If they LOSE 100 games in a row, I still have to go to work tomorrow.

Too funny...

captain54
07-02-2013, 01:08 PM
I think that I have an explantion for the 2013 Sox -- they are having a really bad season. And here are eight reasons why:
.

the condensed version. I'll give you TWO reasons why.. or at least two MAIN reason why:

the WS are not hitting home runs. Last year, they finished near the top in all of MLB in HR's.. This year, with 1/2 practically gone.. way, way off that pace..lower half in MLB.

Defense. Last year, the WS were #1 in MLB with least errors and best fielding percentage. This year, just a few percentage points in fielding from the BOTTOM in MLB. Remarkable. You'd be hard pressed to find a team in the history in MLB to from 1st to near the bottom in successive seasons.

The Home Run issue has finally come back to bite the organization. There is no way around the fact that HR's have cured a lot of ills offense-wise, and the KW era is a testament to building a team around the HR.. also this year not only are the HR's down, but the BB's are way down, further compounding the issue.

The Defense is a real head scratcher. Left field this year has been a nightmare.. Up the middle, the WS miss AJ more than they anticipated. Other than that, you would have to question how does a team in 2012 have the focus on the field, and in 2013 have no focus whatsover...??? You would probably have to be privvy to the attitude in the dugout and clubhouse on a daily basis to answer that question.

Defense and the Home Run.. with even SLIGHTLY better numbers in both of those categories, you would be talking about an entirely different season in 13'

Is the Organization accountable to the fans? Yes and No. I believe the Organization failed in addressing some of the pressing issues coming into 2013. They continue to live and die by the HR. The chemistry and attitude in the clubhouse has got to be the only explanation for the horrific defense.

I'm sure no one in a position of authority at 35th and Shields enjoys being the laughingstock of MLB at this point, and I can't believe for a second that JR would be happy with a drastically reduced payroll, record low attendance, and out of contention by Memorial Day.

There are people being paid a lot of money in the WS organization whose reputations are on the line. But, Bottom line, the fear of all fans that have been around since the early days of the Sunshine Boys regime is that Reinsdorf's loyalty will trump his decision to put people in power that could potentially fix what is wrong with this team and fix it pronto..

ChiSoxGal85
07-02-2013, 01:15 PM
I think that I have an explantion for the 2013 Sox -- they are having a really bad season. And here are eight reasons why:

(1) Some players, like Alejandro De Aza and Nate Jones, who exceeded expectations last year are underperforming this year;

(2) The Sox have had a lot of injuries: three starting pitchers have missed significant time (Floyd, Danks and Peavy, with Floyd out for at least 2013), Gordon Beckham missed most of the first half and Dayan Viciedo was out for a while;

(3) Paul Konerko is coming to the end of his great big league career and is in decline;

(4) Lack of depth on the big league club and in the minors has been a problem;

(5) The Sox miss A.J., pure and simple;

(6) The Sox defense has really underperformed. This one is really hard to explain, as Gillaspie is an upgrade on Kevin Youkilis defensively. Maybe the drop from AJ to Tyler Flowers and the presence of Adam Dunn at 1B instead of Konerko accounts for the defensive collapse. I don't know;

(7) The Sox do not get on base enough and lack team speed; and

(8) The Sox are really shaky up the middle. Flowers cannot catch and cannot hit. Alexei Ramirez is having a pretty mediocre 2013 despite stealing more bases this year. His power has been way down and his fielding has been eratic. Beckham has been fine but is just coming back from an injury. De Aza is really a fourth outfielder.

Nicely done (even if it's a little off topic from the OP). I think you're pretty dead on - can't point at one thing, it's many. My comments on two items: AJ's absence has had a greater impact than even *I* thought, and Ramirez' defensive woes this year are the biggest mystery of all.

Hitmen77
07-02-2013, 02:31 PM
There isn't an international draft. The international signing period starts tomorrow. According to Kiley McDaniel as of about a week ago, the Sox reportedly have a deal to sign one of the top prospects in Micker Zapata. Toolsy, powerful, 16 year old outfielder.

Thanks. Here's the story just posted in the Trib:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-chicago-white-sox-micker-zapata-signing-20130702,0,3585851.story

TaylorStSox
07-02-2013, 02:47 PM
As long as the Sox play at the Cell, they will live or die by the HR. that's just the way it is.

thomas35forever
07-02-2013, 03:48 PM
As long as the Sox play at the Cell, they will live or die by the HR. that's just the way it is.
Except they're not even doing that right now, meaning we're lucky to get any kind of consistent offense going.

doublem23
07-02-2013, 04:14 PM
Except they're not even doing that right now, meaning we're lucky to get any kind of consistent offense going.

Yes, that is what live and die means.

SportsPg
07-02-2013, 04:17 PM
We need to blow it all up - keeping Sale only if guys like Hawkins and Anderson work out in the next year or two. We should get as many draft picks as we can from Rios, Peavy, Crain, Viciedo, Ramirez, Dunn/Konerko/Danks (probably not much there), and keep making signings like we did today with Micker Zapata. Problem is we'll need about 10 of them in order to find the one or two who will actually be starters on a major league team. Everyone knows our minor league system needs a total rework. We need to come to the realization that we're going to be bad for while - and that being bad is necessary to reload to compete for a world series title. We don't have the $$$ necessary to simply buy our way to the playoffs - and that model is sketchy at best - see the 2013 Yankees/Angels as prime examples.

If we're lucky we restock by the 2016 season and compete with Sale leading the way. I think until then we need to keep our 2005 World Series DVD's handy.

doublem23
07-02-2013, 04:20 PM
We need to blow it all up - keeping Sale only if guys like Hawkins and Anderson work out in the next year or two. We should get as many draft picks as we can from Rios, Peavy, Crain, Viciedo, Ramirez, Dunn/Konerko/Danks (probably not much there), and keep making signings like we did today with Micker Zapata. Problem is we'll need about 10 of them in order to find the one or two who will actually be starters on a major league team. Everyone knows our minor league system needs a total rework. We need to come to the realization that we're going to be bad for while - and that being bad is necessary to reload to compete for a world series title. We don't have the $$$ necessary to simply buy our way to the playoffs - and that model is sketchy at best - see the 2013 Yankees/Angels as prime examples.

If we're lucky we restock by the 2016 season and compete with Sale leading the way. I think until then we need to keep our 2005 World Series DVD's handy.

Teams cannot trade draft picks in Major League Baseball

TheVulture
07-02-2013, 04:21 PM
OMG, ABC is showing "The Bachelorette"! That show is terrible -- quick, ABC owes us people watching TV an explanation! OMG, "Monsters University" only got 2 stars -- Pixar owes us fans an explanation! :D:

.


I can't think of any one who pays ABC thousands of dollars a year for their "entertainment". I can see why a season ticket holder would feel that way, they have invested in the team's success. The White Sox reach out to their season ticket holders in order to secure their renewals. Players call ticket holders and tell them they are playing to win for you, our fans. Season ticket holders respond by renewing their tickets. These condescending comparisons are ridiculous, no offense.

SportsPg
07-02-2013, 04:32 PM
Teams cannot trade draft picks in Major League Baseball

You're right, meant prospects - A and AA only prospects are what we need...

TheVulture
07-02-2013, 04:59 PM
I can't think of any one who pays ABC thousands of dollars a year for their "entertainment". I can see why a season ticket holder would feel that way, they have invested in the team's success. The White Sox reach out to their season ticket holders in order to secure their renewals. Players call ticket holders and tell them they are playing to win for you, our fans. Season ticket holders respond by renewing their tickets. These condescending comparisons are ridiculous, no offense.

This is from the message Boyer sent to season ticket holders the past off-season:

"Last year no one knew how Robin would be. Obviously for us to be competitive all last season, we have a lot of wind in our sails. Its very encouraging. When it comes to the gate, the White Sox could use some encouragement. The teams attendance has declined for six straight seasons and last season fell below 2 million for the first time since 2004."

The White Sox could use some encouragement at the gate...but it is unreasonable for the people providing that encouragement to have some interest or expectation in the team's success? Hey, if ABC said give me money for some quality programming, yeah, I'd probably not be happy after I gave them several thousand dollars and watched them roll out some garbage. I'd probably even make a phone call or two.

Domeshot17
07-02-2013, 05:14 PM
This is from the message Boyer sent to season ticket holders the past off-season:

"Last year no one knew how Robin would be. Obviously for us to be competitive all last season, we have a lot of wind in our sails. Its very encouraging. When it comes to the gate, the White Sox could use some encouragement. The teams attendance has declined for six straight seasons and last season fell below 2 million for the first time since 2004."

The White Sox could use some encouragement at the gate...but it is unreasonable for the people providing that encouragement to have some interest or expectation in the team's success? Hey, if ABC said give me money for some quality programming, yeah, I'd probably not be happy after I gave them several thousand dollars and watched them roll out some garbage. I'd probably even make a phone call or two.

Poor choice of words by Brooks, but to his defense, he has nothing to do with the Baseball Side. If the Sox were winning, and Kenny/Hahn had put out anything close to a good team, maybe they draw 2.5 million fans.

Its hard to blame Brooks. People were FIRED UP over his fair and aggressive pricing plans and family plans. And then, we got the rude reminder that, oh yah, the White Sox suck, and even a 15 dollar ticket is probably too much to spend on this collection of stiffs.

Probably the best thing for the White Sox would be some kind of Cubs strategy, aggressive in the draft, sell vets for prospects, sign vets to short term, tradeable deals, move them for specs etc. Collect an abundance of talent of a couple of years in the farm and hope for the best.

Otherwise, there is just about NOTHING to be excited about at the MLB level. Sale is fantastic, I like Reed, some of the young arms are really nice, but thats it. We do not have 1 hitter, 1, with an OPS over .800. That is just pathetic. Right now the best thing to do is sell beckham before his average comes back down, see if someone buys into Dunn's incredible June, and see what we can get for Rios.

We robbed Peter to pay Paul for years, it caught up to us. We are in baseball hell right now, with a coinflip between what is worse, our mlb roster or our farm, which are both bottom 5-8 in the league.

TheVulture
07-02-2013, 05:32 PM
Poor choice of words by Brooks, but to his defense, he has nothing to do with the Baseball Side. If the Sox were winning, and Kenny/Hahn had put out anything close to a good team, maybe they draw 2.5 million fans.

Its hard to blame Brooks. People were FIRED UP over his fair and aggressive pricing plans and family plans. And then, we got the rude reminder that, oh yah, the White Sox suck, and even a 15 dollar ticket is probably too much to spend on this collection of stiffs.

Probably the best thing for the White Sox would be some kind of Cubs strategy, aggressive in the draft, sell vets for prospects, sign vets to short term, tradeable deals, move them for specs etc. Collect an abundance of talent of a couple of years in the farm and hope for the best.

Otherwise, there is just about NOTHING to be excited about at the MLB level. Sale is fantastic, I like Reed, some of the young arms are really nice, but thats it. We do not have 1 hitter, 1, with an OPS over .800. That is just pathetic. Right now the best thing to do is sell beckham before his average comes back down, see if someone buys into Dunn's incredible June, and see what we can get for Rios.

We robbed Peter to pay Paul for years, it caught up to us. We are in baseball hell right now, with a coinflip between what is worse, our mlb roster or our farm, which are both bottom 5-8 in the league.

I wasn't trying to blame anyone, I was just demonstrating that it is reasonable, at least to me, for ST holders to have an expectation from the team when the team is saying we need you to pay more for our success. (I guess he was saying we need more of you to pay a little less, but the point is, we need our fans to buy more tickets) I don't have a problem with what Boyers said at all.

sachin
07-02-2013, 06:31 PM
Ok, let's say it's not ABC TV, but HBO. You could pay thousands of dollars for that. Or Netflix, where you also buy their product. Or Rolling Stone magazine.

If you don't like the product they're selling, don't buy it, but I think it's hilarious to say that you are OWED an explanation for something that, quite frankly, you are but a teeny tiny percentage of what goes into the product, is hilarious.

SCCWS
07-02-2013, 06:39 PM
Ok, let's say it's not ABC TV, but HBO. You could pay thousands of dollars for that. Or Netflix, where you also buy their product. Or Rolling Stone magazine.

If you don't like the product they're selling, don't buy it, but I think it's hilarious to say that you are OWED an explanation for something that, quite frankly, you are but a teeny tiny percentage of what goes into the product, is hilarious.

WRONG. If you are a season ticket holder, it is too late. You have bought a season of tickets and I doubt you can ask for your money back. So season ticket holders have the right to ask for an explanation. If the company you work for is having major problems, don't you have the right to ask management for an explanation???

Paulwny
07-02-2013, 06:49 PM
WRONG. If you are a season ticket holder, it is too late. You have bought a season of tickets and I doubt you can ask for your money back. So season ticket holders have the right to ask for an explanation. If the company you work for is having major problems, don't you have the right to ask management for an explanation???


The company only has to answer to stock holders. I doubt that many employees ever get to meet or even discuss the problems within a company with the president.

SCCWS
07-02-2013, 07:03 PM
The company only has to answer to stock holders. I doubt that many employees ever get to meet or even discuss the problems within a company with the president.

Just to name a few companies that have apologized in recent years to customers: JC Penny. Bank of America, Dominos Pizza. Makers Mark, Fed Ex, Toronto Maple Leafs

DSpivack
07-02-2013, 07:07 PM
just to name a few companies that have apologized in recent years to customers: Jc penny. bank of america, dominos pizza. Makers mark, fed ex, toronto maple leafs

:rolling:

Paulwny
07-02-2013, 07:13 PM
Just to name a few companies that have apologized in recent years to customers: JC Penny. Bank of America, Dominos Pizza. Makers Mark, Fed Ex, Toronto Maple Leafs

An apology is a far cry from a remedy. We'll try harder to please our customers in the future, just blah, blah, blah.

SCCWS
07-02-2013, 07:26 PM
An apology is a far cry from a remedy. We'll try harder to please our customers in the future, just blah, blah, blah.

Actually, Maple Leafs revamped their roster after the apology and made the playoffs for 1st time in years this season. So their blah blah blah worked.

Red Sox sent their season ticket holders an apology after last season. Seems like their blah blah blah is also working

LITTLE NELL
07-02-2013, 07:29 PM
Just for grins, how many of you remember in 1974 when McDonalds owner Ray Kroc bought the Padres. In their first home game under his ownership the Padres were stinking up the joint and around the 7th inning he got on the PA system and apologized to the fans for the lousy play of the Padres that night.
Don't ever remember that ever happening anywhere else.

doublem23
07-02-2013, 07:34 PM
Actually, Maple Leafs revamped their roster after the apology and made the playoffs for 1st time in years this season. So their blah blah blah worked.

Red Sox sent their season ticket holders an apology after last season. Seems like their blah blah blah is also working

Yeah, and there's probably hundreds if not thousands of bad teams who turned it around without all the blah, blah, blah.

I don't need the Sox to try and cuddle me and make me feel gooey on the inside. I just need them to make a better team.

Paulwny
07-02-2013, 07:35 PM
Actually, Maple Leafs revamped their roster after the apology and made the playoffs for 1st time in years this season. So their blah blah blah worked.

Red sox sent their season ticket holders an apology after last season. Seems like their blah blah blah is also working

Once again it's an apology they did not go into specifics about their roster moves prior to or after their apologies. So, if the Sox said "we're sorry about the product we put on the field" you'd be OK with it?, even if they didn't go into specifics.

SCCWS
07-02-2013, 07:48 PM
Once again it's an apology they did not go into specifics about their roster moves prior to or after their apologies. So, if the Sox said "we're sorry about the product we put on the field" you'd be OK with it?, even if they didn't go into specifics.

I am not a season ticket holder, just a fan of 50 years. You said the team owes the fans nothing and I disagreed. At some point they owe the fans an apology for putting a poor product on the field. They need to make changes. Obviously they cannot go into specifics now and most of the changes will probably not be done until the offseason.

Paulwny
07-02-2013, 08:07 PM
I am not a season ticket holder, just a fan of 50 years. You said the team owes the fans nothing and I disagreed. At some point they owe the fans an apology for putting a poor product on the field. They need to make changes. Obviously they cannot go into specifics now and most of the changes will probably not be done until the offseason.

Where did I ever say the Sox owe the fans nothing. I stated that the Sox only need to explain the situation that was created and possible remedies
with stock holders (JR's Buddies).
You're the one who stated" So season ticket holders have a right to ask for an explanation", now you've changed it to an apology. Which do you want an apology or an explanation?, I'm getting confused.
FWIW, I've been a Sox fan for over 50+ yrs.