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View Full Version : Is It Time to Fire Robin Ventura?


TomBradley72
06-29-2013, 09:54 AM
This is team plays in a "fog", ongoing mental and fundamental mistakes across the board- Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers,etc. Three players run through the 3rd base coach yesterday- no consequences.

More injuries than usual this year, and players are always accountable- but this is approaching "Bevington" territory- and Robin does not seem to be in control.

He's one of my all time favorite Sox players- and even without experience- I thought he would be a good manager- but this is a disaster.

nsolo
06-29-2013, 10:14 AM
This is team plays in a "fog", ongoing mental and fundamental mistakes across the board- Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers,etc. Three players run through the 3rd base coach yesterday- no consequences.

More injuries than usual this year, and players are always accountable- but this is approaching "Bevington" territory- and Robin does not seem to be in control.

He's one of my all time favorite Sox players- and even without experience- I thought he would be a good manager- but this is a disaster.

I'm emotionally torn. Robin is also one of my favorites, but I do believe he last lost control of the team. What has steered me towards this is that there are NO repercussions for the daily bonehead mistakes being made. It make me wonder how much Ventura is actually in control.

So I guess I would answer yes. He should go. Along with many others. But the big question is who would replace him? Who would want to take on this disaster?

TomBradley72
06-29-2013, 10:22 AM
I'm emotionally torn. Robin is also one of my favorites, but I do believe he last lost control of the team. What has steered me towards this is that there are NO repercussions for the daily bonehead mistakes being made. It make me wonder how much Ventura is actually in control.

So I guess I would answer yes. He should go. Along with many others. But the big question is who would replace him? Who would want to take on this disaster?

I think you go stop gap for this year- then a real/comprehensive search in the offseason- Daryl Boston?

Noneck
06-29-2013, 10:23 AM
Let him walk on his own after season end.

Red Barchetta
06-29-2013, 10:38 AM
Let him walk on his own after season end.

I agree. Robin is a fan favorite former player and he inherited a lot of problems.

However, the points made above about lack of discipline are his problems and he's proven that he is or was not ready for the challenge of managing a major league team.

It's these type of fundamentals that managers learn in the minor leagues. I have never bought into the "million dollar athletes/professionals kid gloves" treatment. Their salary and contract has nothing to do with executing fundamentals.

I think Robin should scare them...


PnIaqAsnSxU

delben91
06-29-2013, 10:42 AM
Well, if they fire him, maybe it fires up the team for a few weeks, but this team isn't going anywhere this season anyway. I think it would amount to change for the sake of change, not with any particular goal in mind.

Let him finish out the season and then start another managerial search.

doublem23
06-29-2013, 10:53 AM
This is also just a pretty ****ty team with a couple of players compounding the madness by having career bad years.

So that would be 1 successful year and now 1 bad year. Next year is the final year of his contract. I say let that be his job audition for 2015 and beyond.

cv sox fan
06-29-2013, 10:55 AM
Fire him he lost control last year when they needed a manager typical Williams move we bring a explayer to please the fans there were good managers available we go cheap kw will probably blame us fans for not showing up I can't wait to blow this disaster up maybe then will bring up some kids who want to play and get a manger to teach them discipline

Tragg
06-29-2013, 10:56 AM
He deserves to be fired (arguably he deserved to be fired after last year's collapse).
But I wouldn't fire him now. Just don't bring him back.
And please don't replace him with another house-horse.

sox1970
06-29-2013, 11:01 AM
I wouldn't mind if Mark Parent took over the rest of the season as an interim. This season is over, so it would give Hahn a sense of what he's dealing with.

slavko
06-29-2013, 11:02 AM
Who would want to take on this disaster?

Hmmm, taking on a disaster.....Is Tim Floyd available? In the same vein, Robin's situation is roughly analogous to that of Jerry Sloan with the Bulls. So he may go on to be a managerial great.

BainesHOF
06-29-2013, 11:03 AM
Anyone who has watched this team knows Ventura should be fired. There is no baseball argument to keep him. I've never seen a White Sox team play the game this poorly.

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2013, 11:07 AM
He's not blameless, but way down on the blame list, below these problems:

1. A decade of generally player drafting and development;

2. Meager results from a decade of international signings (Iguchi, Alexei and Viciedo are the best we've done);

3. Going "all in" in 2011, with core players having career worst years, and Ozzie quitting mentally early on when the season remained salvageable;

4. A series of trades that further depleted talent and yielded mediocre returns;

5. An organizational culture that privileges loyalty over performance excellence, and seems to be behind other teams with the use of data analytics.

All of these things create a climate in which very few managers could succeed.

Mr. Jinx
06-29-2013, 11:14 AM
Is anyone all that surprised that a guy who had no previous managing experience in any capacity who didn't even seek out the job is doing poorly?

KingXerxes
06-29-2013, 11:18 AM
He should be shown the door - but only under the following condition:

Either Terry Bevington or Max Patkin is hired as his replacement, and the organ music is replaced with a tape loop of calliope music.

Otherwise keep him.

fungo bat
06-29-2013, 11:31 AM
Last year he received consideration for Manager of the Year. Now he's considered the problem, rather than the solution.

Robin came in cold. He had absolutely no managerial experience on any level, with the exception of being a batting specialist/coach on a local high school team.

Take a look at the players Williams and now Hahn have put around him. That pathetic display of baseball last night at the Cell vs. Cleveland hammered home a simple fact: this is a lousy baseball team. Not even the guru, Don Cooper, can wave his magic wand and makes things better. The pitching staff is in shambles. Santiago and Quintana are appearing more and more to be flashes in the pan, suspects as opposed to prospects.

Fire Ventura? Yea, this team may actually respond for a week or two. And then they will flounder right back where they were before.

Bring back the Blizzard of Oz? This is not the answer.

The farm system is a mess thanks to the mismanagement of Williams and company for the past decade. There are no prospects the Sox can look forward to in a year or two. Nothing.

I suppose the painful answer is a complete rebuilding project, similar to what's happening on the other side of town. Bringing in more retreads is not the answer anymore. We've seen enough of guys like Adam Dunn.

Ventura may just walk at the end of the season and decide this just isn't worth it anymore. He's not a quitter. But he doesn't need the money either. And he doesn't have a huge ego that needs to be caressed daily, like his predecessor.

Fire him? I have a hard time identifying Ventura as the main problem. He got too much credit last season when we overperformed. He's getting too much blame this season as this team continues to sink.

Getting rid of Ventura, or anyone on the coaching staff for that matter, would be placing blame in the wrong place, IMO.

CoopaLoop
06-29-2013, 11:34 AM
When he didn't pinch hit for Giminez in the 9th last night, I said to myself why even bother managing if you can't make the most basic of decisions.

amsteel
06-29-2013, 11:36 AM
Since it was a bad hire in the first place, yes.

Steelrod
06-29-2013, 11:48 AM
It actually started last September!

34rancher
06-29-2013, 12:25 PM
It actually started last September!

It actually started the day Adam Dunn was considered. His lazy attitude and work ethics are contagious.

captain54
06-29-2013, 12:26 PM
as is typical, the Sox organization never addressed the real issues as to why the team coughed up the lead to Detroit in the last couple of weeks, rather I believe considered 2012 a success. So any positive of 2013 is the warts of the organization are out in the open for the world to see

blandman
06-29-2013, 12:37 PM
:popcorn:

Mr. Jinx
06-29-2013, 12:38 PM
It actually started the day Adam Dunn was considered. His lazy attitude and work ethics are contagious.

And you have any idea this is the case how?

StillMissOzzie
06-29-2013, 01:01 PM
He should be shown the door - but only under the following condition:

Either Terry Bevington or Max Patkin is hired as his replacement, and the organ music is replaced with a tape loop of calliope music.

Otherwise keep him.

King X, you never disappoint! I almost spewed on my monitor & keyboard when I read this.

SMO
:D:

BigKlu59
06-29-2013, 01:12 PM
When he didn't pinch hit for Giminez in the 9th last night, I said to myself why even bother managing if you can't make the most basic of decisions.

:ohno

This pains my cerebrum as well...If there was ever a time to try different things in different situations just to shake things up, now would be the time as a manager. *** do you really have to lose. If there are still ego's on this floundering Flying Dutchman, **** them...If I were him I'd twist that lineup inside out just to **** with their heads to let them know they are playing like a steaming pile. Fire Robin? Nah, He's not out in the field turning routine plays into excercises of mass ineptitude. He's not standing in the batters box swinging like a 4 year old seeing the first overhand ball ever thrown his way..

If he were teaching a bunch of neophytes the game and it was on him to groom them and he was failing at the task, yes.. **** can him. But the reality is he is coaching players who should be "fundamentally" at the top of their profession.

I dont know what halfassitis virus has infected this team or where it came from. Is he in over his head? Dont think so.. I think they are taking advantage of his demeanor. If thats not the case, then they outright suck..

BK59

joegraz
06-29-2013, 01:19 PM
Is anyone all that surprised that a guy who had no previous managing experience in any capacity who didn't even seek out the job is doing poorly?

Close thread....No further responses necessary.

shingo10
06-29-2013, 01:28 PM
Not time to fire him. I don't think the result of this season would be any different if it were Dave Martinez or Sandy Alomar Jr managing. This team sucks.

I think Robin will be fine. Part of the reason I thought he was hired was to teach kids how to play during the rebuilding process that we have yet to start.

TheVulture
06-29-2013, 01:34 PM
I hate how Robin always speaks in second person. It seems to be spreading like an infestation throughout the team. Of course, if the Sox were any good I would care less.

Bobby Thigpen
06-29-2013, 01:38 PM
While I don't think Robin is a great manager, all of the things people want to blame him for were there before he was hired with many of these players. Mental lapses in the field, mental lapses on the base paths, laziness, lack of "fire", etc have all been with the core group of these players since they got here. To say Robin is to blame for the faults of these players is ridiculous. They've all had these faults since the Sox got them.

Jesus Christ couldn't come in and make this team a disciplined, well oiled machine. It's just not happening with anyone.

LITTLE NELL
06-29-2013, 02:42 PM
Robin was one of my all time Sox favorites but I was very surprised when he was named Sox manager. The Sox after Ozzie needed someone more sedate but firm. A Joe Maddon or Al Lopez type is what the team needs. There doesn't seem to be any fire in the belly with Robin.
Someone asked "where are the repercussions", in this day and age what with multi-year contracts plus with a horrible farm system there just is not a lot that management can do with. I'm hoping for some trades very soon and after the season we should see a lot of changes.

RCWHITESOX
06-29-2013, 02:47 PM
This is team plays in a "fog", ongoing mental and fundamental mistakes across the board- Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers,etc. Three players run through the 3rd base coach yesterday- no consequences.

More injuries than usual this year, and players are always accountable- but this is approaching "Bevington" territory- and Robin does not seem to be in control.

He's one of my all time favorite Sox players- and even without experience- I thought he would be a good manager- but this is a disaster.

Believe me we are definitely in old putter pants Bevington territory. This team is awful.

A. Cavatica
06-29-2013, 02:54 PM
Keep him, he was hired to be a caretaker while the team goes after a run of #1 draft picks.

Mr. Jinx
06-29-2013, 03:03 PM
While I don't think Robin is a great manager, all of the things people want to blame him for were there before he was hired with many of these players. Mental lapses in the field, mental lapses on the base paths, laziness, lack of "fire", etc have all been with the core group of these players since they got here. To say Robin is to blame for the faults of these players is ridiculous. They've all had these faults since the Sox got them.



This I agree with. He got saddled with a poor team, but I also think he really isn't into it. It wouldn't surprise me once Robin's time with the team is over if he just fades off into retirement and never coaches again.

thomas35forever
06-29-2013, 03:36 PM
Not really a point to it. This team is what it is and a new face isn't going to change that. He should only be fired if the front office has a clear-cut path to how it's going to build a winner again and I don't think that future involves Ventura. In the meantime however, let him stay until all circumstances point to him needing to leave. I doubt we're there yet.

TheVulture
06-29-2013, 03:39 PM
This I agree with. He got saddled with a poor team, but I also think he really isn't into it. It wouldn't surprise me once Robin's time with the team is over if he just fades off into retirement and never coaches again.

Yeah, but look at Ramirez for example. We've often been irritated by his apparent mental blunders, but this year it has gotten to be absurd. Ramirez was one of the best shortstops in the league last year. We're already approaching or have passed last year's error and unearned run totals. I recall a recent game where we had runners thrown out on the bases in five consecutive innings.

TDog
06-29-2013, 03:53 PM
Fire him he lost control last year when they needed a manager typical Williams move we bring a explayer to please the fans there were good managers available we go cheap kw will probably blame us fans for not showing up I can't wait to blow this disaster up maybe then will bring up some kids who want to play and get a manger to teach them discipline

This is an interesting take. Really the 2012-13 White Sox are not much different from the 1978-68 White Sox from this perspective. Once I was driving through Chicago and heard some North guy on the radio saying the White Sox needed to win only one of their last five games to go to the World Series, which shows, I guess, how that word 1967 has become more legend than reality.

But, essentially, the White Sox in 1967 had the inside track in a four-team race, playing the weakest teams in the league (although the A's had considerable good young talent). The White Sox had the inside track in 2012. In 1968, the White Sox were worse than they had been in about a generation, losing their first 10 games, losing a record number of one-run games. This team is shaping up to be the worst since Bill Veeck's second regime. In 1968, there wasn't any strong young talent, although there was bright young White Sox-developed talent playing for other teams. The Sox through the '60s had traded prospects for aging, past-their-prime talent, and the best prospects in the system were few and not quite ready. The White Sox fired their manager about 80 games into the season.

Still, Eddie Stanky was not Robin Ventura, or maybe that should be stated the other way around. Stanky was old school with discipline and had all kinds of experience, and was even named National League manager of the year in his first year managing any team at any level long before that. The White Sox firing Stanky didn't help. Things just kept getting worse. They started to improve three of four managers later, depending on whether you count the interims, but that also corresponded with the new GM who hired someone with no major league managerial experience.

Firing Stanky didn't help. For that matter, firing LaRussa didn't help. I don't think firing Ventura would help.

HomeFish
06-29-2013, 04:08 PM
As a society, we've moved past the "we need to throw the chief into a volcano to appease the gods" mentality when things go poorly - except when it comes to MLB managers apparently.

Blaming Ventura for the team's issues is laughable. Perhaps firing him will satisfy the bloodlust of a disappointed fanbase, but no manager can fix the larger problems with this team.

TheVulture
06-29-2013, 04:25 PM
Call me primitive, but when the prime issues seem to be of focus, execution, baserunning and other fundamentals, etc. I would think the coaching staff would have to be scrutinized. Robin's in game decision-making has been highly questionable as well. I figured the Sox would be outplayed this year, but they're just giving games away.

Boondock Saint
06-29-2013, 04:29 PM
Let him walk on his own after season end.

I think everybody's said part or all of what I'm thinking. Let him walk after this season.

He's been bad this year, but last season, he actually practiced what Ozzie had been preaching without results for years with the defense first attitude, and it showed. He helped wash away some of the bitter taste that Ozzie left in fans mouths.

He's had a bad year, but he's also had a very bad team to work with. He shouldn't be brought back, but outside of some poor decisions, he hasn't merited firing. He hasn't said anything stupid in the media like Ozzie did on a seemingly weekly basis, he doesn't throw players under the bus, and while he's making poor decisions, at least he's still trying. Firing him doesn't solve anything with this team. It doesn't start the rebuild any faster, and it doesn't make this team a contender. All it would accomplish is shaming a Sox legend who tried really hard to help the team, but fell short of expectations.

BigKlu59
06-29-2013, 04:46 PM
I think everybody's said part or all of what I'm thinking. Let him walk after this season.

He's been bad this year, but last season, he actually practiced what Ozzie had been preaching without results for years with the defense first attitude, and it showed. He helped wash away some of the bitter taste that Ozzie left in fans mouths.

He's had a bad year, but he's also had a very bad team to work with. He shouldn't be brought back, but outside of some poor decisions, he hasn't merited firing. He hasn't said anything stupid in the media like Ozzie did on a seemingly weekly basis, he doesn't throw players under the bus, and while he's making poor decisions, at least he's still trying. Firing him doesn't solve anything with this team. It doesn't start the rebuild any faster, and it doesn't make this team a contender. All it would accomplish is shaming a Sox legend who tried really hard to help the team, but fell short of expectations.


That would be my take on it. Well stated.. The paper tiger of the line up he was given has devolved into a crumpled ball fit for the nail on the end of a stickwielding,yellow vested, highway cleaning effort. Christ, he must feel like a T-Ball coach with some of the boners they are pullin...

BK59

TomBradley72
06-29-2013, 04:51 PM
As a society, we've moved past the "we need to throw the chief into a volcano to appease the gods" mentality when things go poorly - except when it comes to MLB managers apparently.

Blaming Ventura for the team's issues is laughable. Perhaps firing him will satisfy the bloodlust of a disappointed fanbase, but no manager can fix the larger problems with this team.

Not bloodlust- I just believe the continuous drumbeat of lazy, unfocused, stupid baseball is partly attributed to the manager in charge.

I usually have a very long fuse at making a change in the manager- and this year is flushed down the toilet already- but this team is becoming the laughingstock of baseball, and the players aren't just "slumping"- they are regressing. If this manager had any name other than "Robin Ventura"- he would be held much more accountable for the team's performance.

This team isn't a contender by any means- but they are embarrassing themselves on a daily basis (twice yesterday).

Routine fly ball to right center drops between the CF & RF for a "triple"? Ball through the SS's legs to lose a game? Pop up to the infield to close out a game drops to tie the game up? 0-9 pitcher with 5+ ERA shuts you down on a 4 hitter? Blow a 5-0 lead, lose 19-10, 3 players run thru your 3rd base coach, OF's dont's know how many outs? Blow an 8-5 lead and lose 9-8 in the bottom of the 9th? Your back up catcher swings on 1-0 following a 4 pitch walk?

All in one week of White Sox baseball.

No one is benched. No one is sent down. No adjustments in any way- I know the roster is mediocre and the minors are barren- but the manager has to do SOMETHING.

If the manager isn't accountable for this performance, WHEN is the manager EVER accountable?

Not a witch hunt- just the most incompetent White Sox team I can remember-and I've been a diehard since 1971.

Mr. Jinx
06-29-2013, 04:51 PM
Yeah, but look at Ramirez for example. We've often been irritated by his apparent mental blunders, but this year it has gotten to be absurd. Ramirez was one of the best shortstops in the league last year. We're already approaching or have passed last year's error and unearned run totals. I recall a recent game where we had runners thrown out on the bases in five consecutive innings.

I should clarify. I think Robin sucks as a manager, but there's many more problems larger than that.

aryzner
06-29-2013, 05:44 PM
There isn't a manager on the planet that could get this team to win consistently, so no. Let him ride out the rest of the year. The Sox aren't going anywhere anyway.

Red Barchetta
06-29-2013, 05:53 PM
This I agree with. He got saddled with a poor team, but I also think he really isn't into it. It wouldn't surprise me once Robin's time with the team is over if he just fades off into retirement and never coaches again.

I agree. That fact that he was actually hired for the job was such a shock. More like the team approached him instead of him expressing interest.

Over the years, I never ever got the impression that Ventura wanted to coach or manage. I think the SOX just needed a good, fan-favorite and cheap manager to run things while they try to rebuild and move past the Ozzie era.

BainesHOF
06-29-2013, 07:09 PM
Just because the team has many problems doesn't excuse Ventura for being one of them. And a pretty big one at that.

Tragg
06-29-2013, 07:39 PM
Now he's using Jordan Danks as a pinch hitter. Yea, it may be that time.

Mr. Jinx
06-29-2013, 07:51 PM
Now he's using Jordan Danks as a pinch hitter. Yea, it may be that time.

Mercy! I think the Sox dodged a bullet when Robin turned down that extension.

TDog
06-29-2013, 08:25 PM
Now he's using Jordan Danks as a pinch hitter. Yea, it may be that time.

A lot of managers would have done that, considering the circumstances. It isn't as if there is much choice with Flowers coming up. Konerko's situation makes the bench even shorter.

Ventura lost today's game because he brought in Crain. He lost the second game Friday because he brought in Reed.

sox1970
06-29-2013, 08:31 PM
They shouldn't fire him because they think he's a bad manager. They should change managers because when the Sox get good again, he won't be here.

In my opinion, there's very little chance he wants to do this past three years anyway. Just let him go now, find a guy they feel can be there for the long run, and change the attitude of the team as the personnel changes evolve over the next couple years.

Mr. Jinx
06-29-2013, 08:35 PM
They shouldn't fire him because they think he's a bad manager. They should change managers because when the Sox get good again, he won't be here.

In my opinion, there's very little chance he wants to do this past three years anyway. Just let him go now, find a guy they feel can be there for the long run, and change the attitude of the team as the personnel changes evolve over the next couple years.

Yes, yes, and yes!

Viva Medias B's
06-29-2013, 08:48 PM
Robin Ventura is Dick Jauron.

Tragg
06-29-2013, 08:53 PM
A lot of managers would have done that, considering the circumstances. It isn't as if there is much choice with Flowers coming up. Konerko's situation makes the bench even shorter.

Ventura lost today's game because he brought in Crain. He lost the second game Friday because he brought in Reed.

You need 1 run; you leave the power, such as it is, in the lineup. Flowers had a hit today and at least he's hitting 200 instead of Danks' 100.
Nothing wrong with those pitching moves. There was a lot wrong with using Jordan Danks as a pinch hitter.

SCCWS
06-29-2013, 09:04 PM
Shouln't we fire both Robin and the person who hired him?????

GlassSox
06-29-2013, 10:21 PM
Shouln't we fire both Robin and the person who hired him?????

Now there's an excellent thought

mahagga73
06-29-2013, 10:35 PM
This is also just a pretty ****ty team with a couple of players compounding the madness by having career bad years.

So that would be 1 successful year and now 1 bad year. Next year is the final year of his contract. I say let that be his job audition for 2015 and beyond.
What successful year ,85-77?

DSpivack
06-29-2013, 10:59 PM
Robin Ventura is Dick Jauron.

The Sox most likely aren't having one exciting but flukey year as division champion under Ventura.

Railsplitter
06-29-2013, 11:04 PM
This team is the sum of every front office made since winning the 2005 Series.

JB98
06-30-2013, 12:19 AM
Honestly, I think Robin will leave on his own at season's end. I don't see any point in firing him. This team has a Triple-A roster, and it's only going to get worse when a couple of the bullpen guys and a couple of the regulars get traded within the next month.

Is the manager accountable for this mess? Sure, but nothing is going to change this year if someone else is placed in charge of the team. This will be a 95- to 100-loss team, and that's that.

SCCWS
06-30-2013, 10:35 AM
Honestly, I think Robin will leave on his own at season's end. I don't see any point in firing him. This team has a Triple-A roster, and it's only going to get worse when a couple of the bullpen guys and a couple of the regulars get traded within the next month.

Is the manager accountable for this mess? Sure, but nothing is going to change this year if someone else is placed in charge of the team. This will be a 95- to 100-loss team, and that's that.

Agree on the talent level. But the fundamentals are woefully lacking. So is accountability. That falls on Robin.

WLL1855
06-30-2013, 11:45 AM
What successful year ,85-77?

Considering most of the 'experts' had the Sox at about 70 wins for last year, it was a relative success. Coincidentally, it looks like that's what we are going to get this year with a team that didn't to anything to improve itself over the offseason.

Yes, the team is bad and just about unsalvageable at this point. The manager is responsible for his part of it but canning his ass doesn't accomplish anything. I'm content to ride out the year and then have 'the talk' the day after the season ends. There's nothing more pathetic than firing a manager with less than a week left in the season. Seems almost spiteful.

If nothing else, it can't get much worse from here, right?

nsolo
06-30-2013, 12:09 PM
Honestly, I think Robin will leave on his own at season's end. I don't see any point in firing him. This team has a Triple-A roster, and it's only going to get worse when a couple of the bullpen guys and a couple of the regulars get traded within the next month.

Is the manager accountable for this mess? Sure, but nothing is going to change this year if someone else is placed in charge of the team. This will be a 95- to 100-loss team, and that's that.

Emotionally, I want to accept your opinion to let Ventura, a fan and personal favorite, save face and be allowed to leave at the end of this season. But I want to see the rebuilding of talent, climate and culture to begin asap.

Would improvement on the field negatively affect next years draft. Maybe. But even if it lowered our picks, I doubt our ability to evaluate talent. That's an area that needs BIG improvement.

My opinion is that wholesale change, top to bottom, needs to happen.

nsolo
06-30-2013, 12:12 PM
If nothing else, it can't get much worse from here, right?

Yee of little faith.

Irishsox1
06-30-2013, 12:53 PM
Robin should be fired. He was a reaction hire from Ozzie. Robin is a great guy, great with the fans, great teammate, very even keeled guy but this team has picked up his quiet go with the flow temper.

But, there is a bigger issue and that is Dunn, Konerko and Peavy. Nobody can fix those three guys.

doublem23
06-30-2013, 03:25 PM
But, there is a bigger issue and that is Dunn, Konerko and Peavy. Nobody can fix those three guys.

What exactly on Peavy needs to be fixed, he was one of the top 5-6 pitchers in the AL last year...

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2013, 03:32 PM
What exactly on Peavy needs to be fixed, he was one of the top 5-6 pitchers in the AL last year...

The only thing I could think is that he thinks that Jake is injury prone which seems to be the case. I'm a big fan of Jake and hope he comes back stronger than ever.
As far as PK, we can't fix his age.

Stanley
06-30-2013, 03:45 PM
Robin shouldn't have been given the job in the first place, so I don't care if he gets fired. That being said, this is a bad team and the record reflects that. I'll never get myself into a debate about how much a manager is responsible for a team's record. But at the very least, I don't believe there is any good evidence that tells us that going against convention here (hiring a guy who's coached at AAA and worked his way up for, etc) is a smart move. As far as I know, Robin was not even the head coach of a high school team before he took the Sox job. And it's not hard to see where his inexperience has led to undesirable results.

The way this organization has done things the past 10 years or so, it would be shocking to see him fired before season's end. Given his personality and the way he does his job, there'd have to be a pretty dramatic Ozzie-like shift in how he handles things moving forward to be canned.

Dan H
06-30-2013, 06:06 PM
Robin Ventura should not have been hired in the first place, but that is a bigger reflection on the front office than him. And it is a front office that I have no faith in. The losing will continue long after Ventura is gone and the only thing management will do is complain about attendance.

mahagga73
06-30-2013, 09:07 PM
I agree that the Robin hiring was out of left field and a move that has failed miserably . Being a very good player doesn't predispose you to having the ability to manage lineups and pitching staffs , keep the finger on the pulse of the team, or when and how to get the point across to players that don't have their head in the game properly. It's obvious Robin has been suspect to bad in all categories, But I don't blame him, they talked him into it ,ignoring all previous convention on what makes a guy major league manager ready . I would be shocked if he didn't regret taking the job by now. My opinion of him will always be high. That being said this season has been one for the ages , like every 20 years or so.

JB98
06-30-2013, 11:39 PM
Agree on the talent level. But the fundamentals are woefully lacking. So is accountability. That falls on Robin.

Well, to a point. I just don't think Robin has a lot of options. If someone wants to argue Ramirez should be benched for a game or two, it's hard to disagree. But, I don't think putting Beckham at SS and Keppinger at 2B gives the team a better chance to win.

Does benching Rios or De Aza for a couple days and playing AAAA Wise or Danks give the team a better chance to win? I don't think so.

The manager has to put the best lineup on the field to win that day's game. I feel for the most part Robin has done that. As for as the managing goes this year, I'm more bothered by his handling of the pitching staff. He's stretching guys out needlessly. There is no need to throw Sale 123 pitches in a game that was over the moment Chris gave up a run in the fourth inning.

If we want to talk about accountability, the front office is most accountable. The manager doesn't have many good choices. He's choosing among a host of players who are bad. When he puts his bench guys in, they make dumb mistakes too. What can you do? This team stinks. They will be just as terrible if Robin is fired. Bringing in some ****-kicking manager who is going "to hold guys accountable" won't make any difference whatsoever, IMO.

SoxThunder
07-01-2013, 12:14 AM
Is it time to fire Robin???
:harold
"EVIDENTLY!!!!!"

TheVulture
07-01-2013, 09:52 AM
Is it time to fire Robin???
:harold
"EVIDENTLY!!!!!"

:rolling:

I've been waiting for the right time to bust that out but you caught me napping!

amsteel
07-01-2013, 07:53 PM
The team is obviously going to go into rebuild mode as soon as the next few weeks and if the organization has already decided that Ventura is not the man for the rebuild he needs to go now.

You need a manager that has a single vision for the foreseeable future. Not a lame duck marketing ploy.

SCCWS
07-01-2013, 09:55 PM
Well, to a point. I just don't think Robin has a lot of options. If someone wants to argue Ramirez should be benched for a game or two, it's hard to disagree. But, I don't think putting Beckham at SS and Keppinger at 2B gives the team a better chance to win.

Does benching Rios or De Aza for a couple days and playing AAAA Wise or Danks give the team a better chance to win? I don't think so.

The manager has to put the best lineup on the field to win that day's game. I feel for the most part Robin has done that. As for as the managing goes this year, I'm more bothered by his handling of the pitching staff. He's stretching guys out needlessly. There is no need to throw Sale 123 pitches in a game that was over the moment Chris gave up a run in the fourth inning.

If we want to talk about accountability, the front office is most accountable. The manager doesn't have many good choices. He's choosing among a host of players who are bad. When he puts his bench guys in, they make dumb mistakes too. What can you do? This team stinks. They will be just as terrible if Robin is fired. Bringing in some ****-kicking manager who is going "to hold guys accountable" won't make any difference whatsoever, IMO.

I agree the backups are awful. But when players make boneheaded plays, you need to sit them down to get a message across. The heck with the best lineup to give them a chance to win. They don't win anyway. The team lacks talent. But fans deserve to see players who are putting the effort in. When a player does not put the effort in, sit him even if the sub is less talented.

gosox41
07-01-2013, 11:10 PM
This is team plays in a "fog", ongoing mental and fundamental mistakes across the board- Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers,etc. Three players run through the 3rd base coach yesterday- no consequences.

More injuries than usual this year, and players are always accountable- but this is approaching "Bevington" territory- and Robin does not seem to be in control.

He's one of my all time favorite Sox players- and even without experience- I thought he would be a good manager- but this is a disaster.


Doesn't matter. He'll quit after this year. He'll find away to come out looking good with rep in tact and he will leave on good terms. Fans will still love him.

We'll then hire another inexperienced manager to see what we can do.


Bob

Medford Bobby
07-02-2013, 02:22 AM
While watching yeterday's Sox game on WGN (Sunday)I got a wiff of what Hawk was thinking when he talked about Terry Francona being hired as the Tribe's manager, that they need a whole culture change with the whole organization with new coaches, players etc.

Honestly folks as much as we like having old Sox guys around, Ventura, Baines, Thigpen....maybe some outside blood with NO ties to any White Sox history. Hey this happened with a change with Tanner and Hemond many years ago.......


I guess if the Sox had hired Francona, they would be bringing in an old organization guy too.....:whiner:

Harry Chappas
07-02-2013, 12:32 PM
If you want to argue that Ventura should be given the remainder of this year, I'm in complete agreement. I loved him as a player and he seems like a genuinely decent guy. There's no point in firing him at this point. But hanging this disaster of a season on the players and giving Ventura a free pass is ridiculous.

His inexperience showed last year too. His handling of the pitching staff, bullpen, pitching changes, etc. led to much hand-wringing on this very board and may have cost us a shot at the playoffs. He was in over his head then and now. And as someone else pointed out, why should any of this come as a surprise? I think the Sox grossly underestimated how difficult coaching is and selected Ventura in the hopes that such a popular former player would keep the pitchforks at bay, experience be damned.

russ99
07-02-2013, 02:57 PM
I'm a huge fan of Ventura as a player and a person, but if we're going to reload/rebuild, we need a guy who has a track record of working with younger players as our manager.

The other question is what Don Cooper may do. He may not want to sit through a rebuilding period or go back to a more traditional coaching role if we hire an experienced manager. But he's a huge asset to the club, and would be super-difficult to replace.

This will be as tricky to handle for Rick Hahn as getting the best talent possible in salary-cutting deals.

Frater Perdurabo
07-02-2013, 05:19 PM
The manager who has the most proven record of working well with young players is currently managing the Orioles. And his track record shows he'll likely wear out his welcome in the clubhouse in another year or two.