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Fastball23
06-28-2013, 03:28 PM
Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor 3m (https://twitter.com/scotgregor/status/350695817377615873)
White Sox' sell-off could start with Keppinger going to Yankees, who need help at 3B

It would be nice to get Gary Sanchez. Not sure what it would take

Frater Perdurabo
06-28-2013, 04:35 PM
Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor 3m (https://twitter.com/scotgregor/status/350695817377615873)
White Sox' sell-off could start with Keppinger going to Yankees, who need help at 3B

It would be nice to get Gary Sanchez. Not sure what it would take

Watch Keppinger pull a "Swisher" and hit .280 with a .380 OBP in NY.

SoxSpeed22
06-28-2013, 07:03 PM
Whatever you can get. I would be surprised if they got anything of significance for Kepp.

Noneck
06-28-2013, 08:48 PM
I think the Sox would take a bag of balls for Keppinger, salary relief time.

Brian26
06-28-2013, 10:15 PM
I cannot remember ever actually rooting for the Sox to disassemble their current team, but I am at that point right now. I hope they keep Sale and Beckham (and PK because he should retire in a Sox uni), but I wouldn't shed a tear at this point for any other guy leaving this team. Good riddance.

ChiSoxGal85
06-28-2013, 10:44 PM
I cannot remember ever actually rooting for the Sox to disassemble their current team, but I am at that point right now. I hope they keep Sale and Beckham (and PK because he should retire in a Sox uni), but I wouldn't shed a tear at this point for any other guy leaving this team. Good riddance.
+ 1. After the first game today, I texted "Blow it up" to my sister. I never thought I'd say that either.

DSpivack
06-28-2013, 11:04 PM
I cannot remember ever actually rooting for the Sox to disassemble their current team, but I am at that point right now. I hope they keep Sale and Beckham (and PK because he should retire in a Sox uni), but I wouldn't shed a tear at this point for any other guy leaving this team. Good riddance.

The various pieces that have reported on the team recently have said that everyone is up for grabs... except Sale and Konerko. So there's that.

all*star quentin
06-28-2013, 11:05 PM
Dan Hayes talking up Rios and Peavy with Stone and Hawk.

A. Cavatica
06-28-2013, 11:42 PM
I cannot remember ever actually rooting for the Sox to disassemble their current team, but I am at that point right now. I hope they keep Sale and Beckham (and PK because he should retire in a Sox uni), but I wouldn't shed a tear at this point for any other guy leaving this team. Good riddance.

Adam Dunn should retire in a Sox uni. The sooner the better.

gosox41
06-29-2013, 03:41 AM
Watch Keppinger pull a "Swisher" and hit .280 with a .380 OBP in NY.

Keppinger has been hitting well the last month or so. Too little too late. I bet he has some trade value due to his relatively low price tag.


Bob

TheVulture
06-29-2013, 12:52 PM
Watch Keppinger pull a "Swisher" and hit .280 with a .380 OBP in NY.


He's .321/.390 since June 1, so it wouldn't be shock. Actually went 15-39 from May 18 to the end of the month as well, which puts him at a cool .348 over the last 6 weeks or so.

Fastball23
06-29-2013, 12:56 PM
http://ht.ly/1Ydndo

Trade chatter is gaining more volume every day. The Giants haven't had much in the way of discussions with the White Sox yet, from what I understand.
But let's just say there's interest in Jake Peavy. And from what I understand, it could be mutual. If he's healthy, and he's expected back from his broken rib in another 2-3 weeks, there simply isn't any better fit for the Giants.

SephClone89
06-29-2013, 02:05 PM
http://ht.ly/1Ydndo

Trade chatter is gaining more volume every day. The Giants haven't had much in the way of discussions with the White Sox yet, from what I understand.
But let's just say there's interest in Jake Peavy. And from what I understand, it could be mutual. If he's healthy, and he's expected back from his broken rib in another 2-3 weeks, there simply isn't any better fit for the Giants.

Might want to put that in quotation marks.

RCWHITESOX
06-29-2013, 02:56 PM
+ 1. After the first game today, I texted "Blow it up" to my sister. I never thought I'd say that either.

I could only imagine what you were thinking after game #2

Bucky F. Dent
06-29-2013, 03:24 PM
Blow it up...everyone but Sale from my perspective. Get some kids back in return, bring some kids up from the minors....whatever.

This team is bad, and it needs to be put out of our misery!

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2013, 04:46 PM
http://ht.ly/1Ydndo

Trade chatter is gaining more volume every day. The Giants haven't had much in the way of discussions with the White Sox yet, from what I understand.
But let's just say there's interest in Jake Peavy. And from what I understand, it could be mutual. If he's healthy, and he's expected back from his broken rib in another 2-3 weeks, there simply isn't any better fit for the Giants.

Maybe we can get a bidding war started between the Giants and Dodgers.

And the Yankees and Red Sox. And the Angels, Athletics and Rangers. And the Pirates and Cardinals.

BainesHOF
06-29-2013, 07:14 PM
If we could dump Keppinger that would be awesome. He's one of the most selfish players I've seen wear a White Sox uniform with his desire to be known as someone who doesn't strikeout trumping a more productive offensive approach. Plus he's not a good fielder and doesn't have energy.

Tragg
06-29-2013, 08:57 PM
Maybe we can get a bidding war started between the Giants and Dodgers.

And the Yankees and Red Sox. And the Angels, Athletics and Rangers. And the Pirates and Cardinals.

It's hard to imagine we'd get full value for him until he's had a couple of starts. With our limited assets, we need all the value we can get.

Mr. Jinx
06-29-2013, 09:07 PM
It's hard to imagine we'd get full value for him until he's had a couple of starts. With our limited assets, we need all the value we can get.

I don't know how true that is. We picked him up on the DL. Now you can debate the ridiculousness that was the Kenny Williams era, but I have to believe that someone would throw together a big package for a former cy young winner who after coming off an injury put together a dominating season last year.

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2013, 09:34 PM
It's hard to imagine we'd get full value for him until he's had a couple of starts. With our limited assets, we need all the value we can get.

Yes, of course, he needs to prove that he is healthy.

If/when he's healthy, Hahn should auction off Peavy to the highest bidder.

Tragg
06-30-2013, 01:12 AM
Yes, of course, he needs to prove that he is healthy.

If/when he's healthy, Hahn should auction off Peavy to the highest bidder.

He should be able to as long as top management doesn't order salary dumping. that, obviously, would ensure weak returns for Rios and about everyone else.

RCWHITESOX
06-30-2013, 01:49 AM
I think the Sox should not trade Peavy. I would like to see the Sox have Sale and Peavy at the top of the rotation next year. Everyone else is fair game. Pitching is the hardest thing to replace and Peavy is one tough competitor and still a fairly young one.

soltrain21
06-30-2013, 09:39 AM
I think the Sox should not trade Peavy. I would like to see the Sox have Sale and Peavy at the top of the rotation next year. Everyone else is fair game. Pitching is the hardest thing to replace and Peavy is one tough competitor and still a fairly young one.

Hate to break it to you, but next year is a wash, too. The next few years probably are.

Fastball23
06-30-2013, 10:09 AM
How many Sox players will actually be traded in the next 4 weeks?
I hope its a least 8 players
Peavy
Crain
Rios
Thornton
Reed
Danks
Alexei
Konerko

soxfanreggie
06-30-2013, 10:52 AM
How many Sox players will actually be traded in the next 4 weeks?
I hope its a least 8 players
Peavy
Crain
Rios
Thornton
Reed
Danks
Alexei
Konerko

I can't see anyone giving up much for Danks with how big his contract is and how he's not showing what he used to be. Konerko is out with a back injury, Nd he's an expiring deal. There's not much return there, and I doubt JR trades him. Crain and Thornton will be first to go, and I hope followed by Rios and then Jake if he shows he can throw a decent start or two.

I think Sox fans would volunteer to move Dunn to a new location if someone would take him. How much salary are we willing to eat for him?

Reed could get a decent return, and he might be your blue chip here because he has none of the three: injury, expiring contract, albatross contract.

A. Cavatica
06-30-2013, 10:53 AM
How many Sox players will actually be traded in the next 4 weeks?
I hope its a least 8 players
Peavy
Crain
Rios
Thornton
Reed
Danks
Alexei
Konerko

I hope it's at least 20.

#1swisher
06-30-2013, 10:54 AM
Ken Rosenthal
Full Count video from yesterday: All trade talk, all the time. http://msn.foxsports.com/video/MLB?vid=035d5e7e-8f3d-4106-905d-d860f4161446 … (http://t.co/khHAACAfhK)

doublem23
06-30-2013, 10:59 AM
I can't see anyone giving up much for Danks with how big his contract is and how he's not showing what he used to be. Konerko is out with a back injury, Nd he's an expiring deal. There's not much return there, and I doubt JR trades him. Crain and Thornton will be first to go, and I hope followed by Rios and then Jake if he shows he can throw a decent start or two.

Reed could get a decent return, and he might be your blue chip here because he has none of the three: injury, expiring contract, albatross contract.

Konerko's not going to get traded when the Hahn says everyone but Sale and Konerko is available, it probably means that Paul's not going to waive his 10/5 rights. I have a pretty strong feeling that this is his last season and he wants to retire as a member of the White Sox.

Danks is worth holding on to because he's not likely to fetch any return that has any more potential future value than he does, his peripherals so far have been pretty good other than the dramatic increase in HR allowed which is probably just the calling card of a guy who is rebuilding his arm after surgery.

I think there's a chance people expecting the Sox to just gut the team for the sake of gutting it may be in for a bad surprise, the Sox are in the driver's seat with most of their more tradeable players; Peavy, Rios, and Alexei all have deals that go through the 2014 year, and the Sox don't exactly have a plethora of young kids in AA and AAA knocking on the door of the Majors, there's no point in trading veterans for the sake of trading them.

SoxSpeed22
06-30-2013, 12:39 PM
Rios to Pittsburgh makes a ton of sense, but the tricky part is for the Pirates to be able to afford him. If Rios gets traded this season, I would like to see him go to the Pirates. It would be nice to get our hands on one of those early picks, namely Austin Meadows or Reese McGuire.
http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/pittsburgh-pirates-mid-season-top-20-prospects-minus-gerrit-cole.html

sox1970
06-30-2013, 12:43 PM
Rios to Pittsburgh makes a ton of sense, but the tricky part is for the Pirates to be able to afford him. If Rios gets traded this season, I would like to see him go to the Pirates. It would be nice to get our hands on one of those early picks, namely Austin Meadows or Reese McGuire.
http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/pittsburgh-pirates-mid-season-top-20-prospects-minus-gerrit-cole.html

Can't trade June picks for another year....unless they changed that rule, which I don't think they did.

Look up Gregory Polanco and Alen Hanson.

DSpivack
06-30-2013, 12:45 PM
Rios to Pittsburgh makes a ton of sense, but the tricky part is for the Pirates to be able to afford him. If Rios gets traded this season, I would like to see him go to the Pirates. It would be nice to get our hands on one of those early picks, namely Austin Meadows or Reese McGuire.
http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/06/pittsburgh-pirates-mid-season-top-20-prospects-minus-gerrit-cole.html

I thought you couldn't trade draft picks until one year after they were drafted.

SoxSpeed22
06-30-2013, 12:47 PM
Turns out you can't trade for June picks. Oh well. I think the Pirates still have plenty of growing talent in that system.

blandman
06-30-2013, 12:48 PM
I thought you couldn't trade draft picks until one year after they were drafted.

Turns out you can't trade for June picks. Oh well. I think the Pirates still have plenty of growing talent in that system.

Ah...the way to get around this is PTBNL.

Frater Perdurabo
06-30-2013, 12:56 PM
Ah...the way to get around this is PTBNL.

Isn't there a limited window of time before the PTBNL must be named?

blandman
06-30-2013, 01:15 PM
Isn't there a limited window of time before the PTBNL must be named?

I'm not sure. I just know it's been used to trade people that can't because of draft date.

DSpivack
06-30-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm not sure. I just know it's been used to trade people that can't because of draft date.

I'm pretty sure a PTBNL hasn't been a player recently drafted. Usually it's a player announced a few weeks or a few months later. I can't recall any trade where it's nearly one year later.

blandman
06-30-2013, 01:21 PM
I'm pretty sure a PTBNL hasn't been a player recently drafted. Usually it's a player announced a few weeks or a few months later. I can't recall any trade where it's nearly one year later.

Ah you're right. It seems a PTBNL must be sent within 6 months.

DSpivack
06-30-2013, 01:24 PM
Ah you're right. It seems a PTBNL must be sent within 6 months.

Thanks, didn't know there was an exact rule.

Tragg
06-30-2013, 01:27 PM
there's no point in trading veterans for the sake of trading them.
Unless they want to slash salary.
I agree, the prudent thing may be to hold onto some of these guys and dump them next year at this time. Danks would be sold at low ebb, one of the practices that put us into this mess. Unless they want to slash salary

TheVulture
06-30-2013, 01:38 PM
I thought you couldn't trade draft picks until one year after they were drafted.

I thought the rule was you can't trade them during the season in which they are drafted rather than a full year, in which case the PTBNL trick would work. However, I wasn't able to find a definitive answer with a quick google search.

soxfanreggie
06-30-2013, 03:07 PM
Konerko's not going to get traded when the Hahn says everyone but Sale and Konerko is available, it probably means that Paul's not going to waive his 10/5 rights. I have a pretty strong feeling that this is his last season and he wants to retire as a member of the White Sox.

Danks is worth holding on to because he's not likely to fetch any return that has any more potential future value than he does, his peripherals so far have been pretty good other than the dramatic increase in HR allowed which is probably just the calling card of a guy who is rebuilding his arm after surgery.

I think there's a chance people expecting the Sox to just gut the team for the sake of gutting it may be in for a bad surprise, the Sox are in the driver's seat with most of their more tradeable players; Peavy, Rios, and Alexei all have deals that go through the 2014 year, and the Sox don't exactly have a plethora of young kids in AA and AAA knocking on the door of the Majors, there's no point in trading veterans for the sake of trading them.

I have a feeling there will be a mandate to dump at least some $$$. Management sees the attendance and isn't going to want to take a bath paying for salary $$$ with reduced revenue coming in. If 2014 is a rebuilding year, they'll also want to get the payroll well under $90-100 million. Konerko and Floyd coming off puts you below $100 million, barring any other raises. If we're able to dump Rios and Dunn, there is another $20-30 million there depending on what we'd have to eat on Dunn. Then you start looking at Peavy, Ramirez, Crain, and Thornton and a lot of $$$ are freed up.

Tragg
06-30-2013, 03:33 PM
I certainly hope not because eating some Rios and Peavy salary is going to be critical in getting a quality return for those players.
And dealing with a team like the Pirates, who need a Rios, likely will require some salary eating to get good prospects, of which they have several.

TaylorStSox
06-30-2013, 06:32 PM
I certainly hope not because eating some Rios and Peavy salary is going to be critical in getting a quality return for those players.
And dealing with a team like the Pirates, who need a Rios, likely will require some salary eating to get good prospects, of which they have several.

I doubt it. Both of those deals are pretty team friendly.

soxfanreggie
06-30-2013, 07:23 PM
I doubt it. Both of those deals are pretty team friendly.

If we can essentially use some of these deals to buy extra prospects off teams willing to part with them, I'm all for it.

TheVulture
06-30-2013, 08:01 PM
I doubt it. Both of those deals are pretty team friendly.

Not according to the Pirates' MO. Their highest paid player is at 7 million, and their payroll is already some 40% higher than last year. Of course, paying to get over .500 and paying to win a World Series are two completely different circumstances.

DSpivack
06-30-2013, 11:02 PM
Not according to the Pirates' MO. Their highest paid player is at 7 million, and their payroll is already some 40% higher than last year. Of course, paying to get over .500 and paying to win a World Series are two completely different circumstances.

They probably want neither big future contracts nor do they want to give up much a deal. Someone like Nate Schierholz perhaps makes more sense to them in RF, although they do need a right-handed bat.

Fastball23
07-01-2013, 03:11 PM
One player who has been rumored to Oakland is shortstop Alexei Ramirez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8169) of the Chicago White Sox (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chw). Former general manager and ESPN analyst Jim Bowden believes Ramirez would be a nice fit (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/#post-7039) in the Bay Area.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oakland-athletics-trade-rumor-alexei-ramirez-trade-winds-160300711.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

Fastball23
07-01-2013, 03:16 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oakland-athletics-trade-rumor-alexei-ramirez-trade-winds-160300711.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

#1swisher
07-01-2013, 05:15 PM
A.J. Pierzynski contacted Alex Rios. According to industry sources, Rios has numerous clubs, interested in him.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/06/rangers-dbacks-giants-scouting-alex-rios.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/30/rangers-giants-d-backs-among-teams-interested-in-alex-rios/

soxfanreggie
07-01-2013, 05:42 PM
A.J. Pierzynski contacted Alex Rios. According to industry sources, Rios has numerous clubs, interested in him.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/06/rangers-dbacks-giants-scouting-alex-rios.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/30/rangers-giants-d-backs-among-teams-interested-in-alex-rios/

I'm all for getting something out of the Rangers for him or any other team that has prospects to spare and $$$ to spend on his contract. I like what Alex has had to offer since the start of 2012, but we are hampering out future keeping him. We don't have enough right now to succeed, and by the time we do, his contract will be up/about up.

The Sox will definitely take a hit in attendance from making these trades, but considering some of the salaries we pay, we can save a lot of $$$.

Fastball23
07-01-2013, 05:56 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-ask-mark-20130701,0,3511437.story?page=3

Frater Perdurabo
07-01-2013, 05:57 PM
I'm all for getting something out of the Rangers for him or any other team that has prospects to spare and $$$ to spend on his contract. I like what Alex has had to offer since the start of 2012, but we are hampering out future keeping him. We don't have enough right now to succeed, and by the time we do, his contract will be up/about up.

The Sox will definitely take a hit in attendance from making these trades, but considering some of the salaries we pay, we can save a lot of $$$.

I like Rios, but he's not a fan favorite like Baines, Frank, Robin or Paulie. I doubt trading Rios (or any of the relievers) will result in fan backlash.

TheVulture
07-01-2013, 06:59 PM
A.J. Pierzynski contacted Alex Rios. According to industry sources, Rios has numerous clubs, interested in him.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/06/rangers-dbacks-giants-scouting-alex-rios.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/30/rangers-giants-d-backs-among-teams-interested-in-alex-rios/

I would think the Reds would be interested. I doubt they're throwing in the towel just yet and a right handed hitting OFer like Rios would look pretty good in that lineup.

#1swisher
07-01-2013, 07:11 PM
Rick Hahn: The Sox would be seeking “high-impact premium talent’’ in deals, with starting pitching, middle infielders, center fielders and catchers in the mix.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-hahn-trade-taks-active-20130630,0,6128174.story

Foulke You
07-01-2013, 07:29 PM
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/07/01/rios-its-just-a-matter-of-time/

soxfanreggie
07-01-2013, 11:50 PM
I like Rios, but he's not a fan favorite like Baines, Frank, Robin or Paulie. I doubt trading Rios (or any of the relievers) will result in fan backlash.

Sorry Frater, I should have clarified. The fans will see us likely lose more games if they see 4...6...8 guys gone and replaced with call-ups. You're right, the guys we drop aren't likely to be our top fan favorites. Also, we could call up a few guys and go on a streak.

Not including what we would owe on getting rid of someone like Dunn, I could see approx. $80 million coming off the books next year between trades and FA losses: Konerko, Peavy, Rios, Dunn, Ramirez, Thornton, Crain, and Floyd. Will we get rid of all of those guys? Probably not. Could we? There's a chance.

soxfanreggie
07-01-2013, 11:58 PM
Rick Hahn: The Sox would be seeking “high-impact premium talent’’ in deals, with starting pitching, middle infielders, center fielders and catchers in the mix.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-hahn-trade-taks-active-20130630,0,6128174.story

I've been begging for a decent catcher in the draft. Maybe there will be a good one with our high pick next year. I doubt we get a decent catching prospect here in return. With our success in getting SP seemingly out of thin air with Coop, I'd rather get someone who can start up the middle somewhere in late 2014 or 2015.

Brian26
07-02-2013, 12:22 AM
I like Rios, but he's not a fan favorite like Baines, Frank, Robin or Paulie. I doubt trading Rios (or any of the relievers) will result in fan backlash.

I have never grown attached to Rios. Just never really cared for the dude or enjoyed his attitude on the field like Mags or Dye. The same can be said for Dunn and Alexei. I hope the Sox can get a nice haul for him.

russ99
07-02-2013, 07:56 AM
If we could dump Keppinger that would be awesome. He's one of the most selfish players I've seen wear a White Sox uniform with his desire to be known as someone who doesn't strikeout trumping a more productive offensive approach. Plus he's not a good fielder and doesn't have energy.

Considering how many low production strikeout kings we have who swing homer or nothing all the time, that's pretty amusing.

Keppinger is a contact hitter, and we need more of them, not less.

Being selfish would be poor hitting due to hacking all over the zone and power swinging for stats which is what we're seeing from Dunn, Viciedo and Flowers, etc. and not what we're seeing with Keppinger's "put the ball in play" approach.

Keppinger should be moved for his contract, not for his hitting, which would fit in fine if we had any kind of productive hitters in the order other than Rios.

asindc
07-02-2013, 08:41 AM
Considering how many low production strikeout kings we have who swing homer or nothing all the time, that's pretty amusing.

Keppinger is a contact hitter, and we need more of them, not less.

Being selfish would be poor hitting due to hacking all over the zone and power swinging for stats which is what we're seeing from Dunn, Viciedo and Flowers, etc. and not what we're seeing with Keppinger's "put the ball in play" approach.

Keppinger should be moved for his contract, not for his hitting, which would fit in fine if we had any kind of productive hitters in the order other than Rios.

Completely agree.

Fastball23
07-02-2013, 09:25 AM
David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves

#Braves inquired about Peavy, but I get impression it was a just-in-case thing when couple of their starters were struggling.

ZombieRob
07-02-2013, 07:45 PM
http://www.thesportsbank.net/the-bank/white-sox-white-flag-mlb-trade-rumors/#more-87135

Some interesting speculation.

Domeshot17
07-02-2013, 08:58 PM
http://www.thesportsbank.net/the-bank/white-sox-white-flag-mlb-trade-rumors/#more-87135

Some interesting speculation.

Is that just some dude's blog? Just very random, listing guys who will be on our block, teams who have needs, then their top 5 prospects. The Dbacks are not trading us Adam Eaton for anyone other than Sale, we are not getting Taillon from the Pirates, just kind of a random article.

ZombieRob
07-02-2013, 09:15 PM
Is that just some dude's blog? Just very random, listing guys who will be on our block, teams who have needs, then their top 5 prospects. The Dbacks are not trading us Adam Eaton for anyone other than Sale, we are not getting Taillon from the Pirates, just kind of a random article.
It's simply speculation just like everyone elses. I think the names are just who's available doesn't mean we are going to get them.

I'd think about Sale moving as well depending on the haul. The Sox are going to be rebuilding for the next 3 or 4 years. What's really the point of keeping him, unless people want to go out every time he starts since he will be the only draw the next few years?

DSpivack
07-02-2013, 09:33 PM
It's simply speculation just like everyone elses. I think the names are just who's available doesn't mean we are going to get them.

I'd think about Sale moving as well depending on the haul. The Sox are going to be rebuilding for the next 3 or 4 years. What's really the point of keeping him, unless people want to go out every time he starts since he will be the only draw the next few years?

Because he's a great, young and cheap starter, and those don't come around too often. Any attempt at re-building will be made much more difficult if he's dealt.

Domeshot17
07-02-2013, 09:51 PM
Because he's a great, young and cheap starter, and those don't come around too often. Any attempt at re-building will be made much more difficult if he's dealt.

That is a huge maybe. I love Chris Sale, think he is great, if some team offers to overpay and throws 5 top 100 prospects our way with 2 in the top 30, you do it without thinking twice.

DSpivack
07-02-2013, 09:58 PM
That is a huge maybe. I love Chris Sale, think he is great, if some team offers to overpay and throws 5 top 100 prospects our way with 2 in the top 30, you do it without thinking twice.

That you might do, but I doubt a team pays that much. I don't recall any trade involving 5 top 100 prospects. How many teams have 5 prospects in the top 100?

ZombieRob
07-02-2013, 10:49 PM
That you might do, but I doubt a team pays that much. I don't recall any trade involving 5 top 100 prospects. How many teams have 5 prospects in the top 100?
I think the point being made is no one on this team should be untouchable, including Sale. A good G.M always listens to offers. If you can get 2 or 3 100 top prospects and 1 or 2 younger reeady to play right now guy they should listen.

doublem23
07-03-2013, 07:39 AM
That you might do, but I doubt a team pays that much. I don't recall any trade involving 5 top 100 prospects. How many teams have 5 prospects in the top 100?

Yeah, the biggest single haul I can remember a team getting was when the Tigers traded top Top 10 prospects to Miami for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, and for those of you who think swapping the proven Sale for a ton of prospects that will help this rebuild, buyer beware, the two top prospects Detroit let go in that deal were Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller... A pair of guys who have turned out to do absolutely nothing in the Majors.

Chez
07-03-2013, 08:26 AM
Yeah, the biggest single haul I can remember a team getting was when the Tigers traded top Top 10 prospects to Miami for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, and for those of you who think swapping the proven Sale for a ton of prospects that will help this rebuild, buyer beware, the two top prospects Detroit let go in that deal were Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller... A pair of guys who have turned out to do absolutely nothing in the Majors.

I completely agree. I doubt we would ever get value for a young stud like Chris Sale. He's already at an elite level (albeit on the verge of a major injury *cough* Blandman). Why would you trade a young, elite pitcher for someone who has a chance to be an elite player? Or even two players who have a chance to be elite?

A. Cavatica
07-03-2013, 08:49 AM
I completely agree. I doubt we would ever get value for a young stud like Chris Sale. He's already at an elite level (albeit on the verge of a major injury *cough* Blandman). Why would you trade a young, elite pitcher for someone who has a chance to be an elite player? Or even two players who have a chance to be elite?

Because there is zero chance of building a competitive team around him. The Sox need to rebuild, and there's no guarantee Sale will last five years.

Moses_Scurry
07-03-2013, 09:18 AM
I think the point being made is no one on this team should be untouchable, including Sale. A good G.M always listens to offers. If you can get 2 or 3 100 top prospects and 1 or 2 younger reeady to play right now guy they should listen.

I have no idea what the average day for a GM plus his team of underlings is like, but is it possible that by announcing that Sale is unavailable, they are reducing the distractions from trading the other chips that would inevitably come if teams thought Sale might be available? I would think that without the announcement, every phone call from a GM would first include inquiries about Sale. There would also likely be calls from GMs who are only interested in Sale and nobody else on the team. He's obviously the biggest prize available on the White Sox. Maybe Hahn et al do not want to deal with that headache or are worried that they might lose out on some good deals for the other players because they will be too busy talking to other GMs about trades for Sale that won't happen.

doublem23
07-03-2013, 09:44 AM
Because there is zero chance of building a competitive team around him. The Sox need to rebuild, and there's no guarantee Sale will last five years.

That's bull****, the Tigers went from completely dysfunctional, back-to-back 100-loss seasons to the World Series in 3 seasons. And the Sox already have quite the head start on them; between Sale, Danks, Quintana, and Santiago you already have potentially 80% of a solid MLB rotation.

It would be one thing if Sale was in his late 20s/early 30s, but even if this is a 4 or 5 year rebuild that still makes him 28-29 years old at that point. Barring a truly, truly mind blowing offer, trading him now doesn't make a whole lot of sense, when you're looking to acquire young, impact players who will help the team win in the future, I got news for you, Sale's 24 years old and already the best pitcher in the American League... You're just not going to find many guys who will top that.

Golden Sox
07-03-2013, 10:20 AM
Seattle traded one of their best pitchers to Detroit a few years ago for a bunch of prospects. One of the so called top prospects they received was Casper Wells. To trade Sale for prospects is crazy.

rdivaldi
07-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Because there is zero chance of building a competitive team around him. The Sox need to rebuild, and there's no guarantee Sale will last five years.

Well it's a good thing then that a rebuild won't take 5 years.

Tragg
07-03-2013, 11:01 AM
Seattle traded one of their best pitchers to Detroit a few years ago for a bunch of prospects. One of the so called top prospects they received was Casper Wells. To trade Sale for prospects is crazy.

They traded a Floyd to Detroit for those prospects.

PalehosePlanet
07-03-2013, 11:07 AM
They traded a Floyd to Detroit for those prospects.

It was Doug Fister.

DSpivack
07-03-2013, 11:25 AM
Yeah, the biggest single haul I can remember a team getting was when the Tigers traded top Top 10 prospects to Miami for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, and for those of you who think swapping the proven Sale for a ton of prospects that will help this rebuild, buyer beware, the two top prospects Detroit let go in that deal were Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller... A pair of guys who have turned out to do absolutely nothing in the Majors.

The Mark Teixeira trade worked out very well for Texas, but that was a few years ago now.

As for Cabrera, I still remember a thread that the Sox were very close to acquiring him. :whiner:

Foulke You
07-03-2013, 11:36 AM
As for Cabrera, I still remember a thread that the Sox were very close to acquiring him. :whiner:
KW was very close. The deal for Cabrera was all but worked out and then the Marlins demanded that Dontrelle Willis and his awful contract be included in the deal. The Tigers were willing to accept it and the Sox weren't. The Tigers got nothing out of Willis and Cabrera was banged up and out of shape his first year in Detroit. However, there is no arguing that the trade came up aces for them in the long run.

doublem23
07-03-2013, 11:51 AM
The Mark Teixeira trade worked out very well for Texas, but that was a few years ago now.

As for Cabrera, I still remember a thread that the Sox were very close to acquiring him. :whiner:

You're right, that's true, that deal was great for the Rangers. I would think one major difference, however, between Teixeira and Sale is that Sale is locked up under team control until 2019 and the Rangers were more or less forced to deal Teixeira because they knew they would lose him in 1-2 years so better to get something than nothing and they ended up with a big haul that worked out well for them.

The "What If" Cabrera to the Sox deal still haunts me.

#1swisher
07-03-2013, 12:59 PM
Rios has the right to block a trade to six teams, Yankees, Diamondbacks, Rockies, Astros, Royals and Athletics.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0703-white-sox-orioles-chicago-20130703,0,2614147.story

Mr. Jinx
07-03-2013, 01:42 PM
Rios has the right to block a trade to six team, Yankees, Diamondbacks, Rockies, Astros, Royals and Athletics.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0703-white-sox-orioles-chicago-20130703,0,2614147.story

It would be hilariously awesome to trade him back to Toronto.

JB98
07-03-2013, 02:19 PM
Well it's a good thing then that a rebuild won't take 5 years.

I continue to be baffled that so many people believe it will take the Sox four or five years to return to contention.

This year is obviously cooked, and I'm pretty sure (but not 100 percent sure) the Sox won't be very good next year either. But I wouldn't rule out having a good team again by 2015. It just depends on the moves Hahn makes over the next 18 months or so.

The Sox aren't going to do the same thing they're doing on the other side of town, nor should they. I hear people grump all the time about the Sox "not having a plan." Well, how do we know they don't have a plan? I'm sure they do have a plan; they just don't feel compelled to announce it to the whole world.

Foulke You
07-03-2013, 02:59 PM
I continue to be baffled that so many people believe it will take the Sox four or five years to return to contention.

This year is obviously cooked, and I'm pretty sure (but not 100 percent sure) the Sox won't be very good next year either. But I wouldn't rule out having a good team again by 2015. It just depends on the moves Hahn makes over the next 18 months or so.

The Sox aren't going to do the same thing they're doing on the other side of town, nor should they. I hear people grump all the time about the Sox "not having a plan." Well, how do we know they don't have a plan? I'm sure they do have a plan; they just don't feel compelled to announce it to the whole world.
I wouldn't even rule out 2014. Baseball is so unpredictable which is part of what makes it a great game. Nobody saw the Sox being contenders last year and they were. The Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Angels were supposed to run away with everything this year and not one of them is above .500. I will reserve judgment on 2014 until I see what moves Hahn makes.

blandman
07-03-2013, 03:27 PM
I continue to be baffled that so many people believe it will take the Sox four or five years to return to contention.

This year is obviously cooked, and I'm pretty sure (but not 100 percent sure) the Sox won't be very good next year either. But I wouldn't rule out having a good team again by 2015. It just depends on the moves Hahn makes over the next 18 months or so.

The Sox aren't going to do the same thing they're doing on the other side of town, nor should they. I hear people grump all the time about the Sox "not having a plan." Well, how do we know they don't have a plan? I'm sure they do have a plan; they just don't feel compelled to announce it to the whole world.

I think it really depends on how you define contention. If you want to get back to 81 win teams with + or - 7 potential year in and year out, then yeah. They could probably pull that off in 3 or 4 years, 2 if they do everything perfect and get really lucky on a few pickups. But if you're going to blow it up, why wouldn't you do it proper and take the time to be a legitimate contender instead of a team that needs a lot of luck and poor competition to be in it? I know that's how we've been run recently but that's not a good model. It's not even the model of the 2005 team, which had a very good core that was the culmination of several years worth of drafts and shrewd trading.

JB98
07-03-2013, 03:32 PM
I think it really depends on how you define contention. If you want to get back to 81 win teams with + or - 7 potential year in and year out, then yeah. They could probably pull that off in 3 or 4 years, 2 if they do everything perfect and get really lucky on a few pickups. But if you're going to blow it up, why wouldn't you do it proper and take the time to be a legitimate contender instead of a team that needs a lot of luck and poor competition to be in it? I know that's how we've been run recently but that's not a good model. It's not even the model of the 2005 team, which had a very good core that was the culmination of several years worth of drafts and shrewd trading.

You and I have a vastly different definition of what is "proper."

TheVulture
07-03-2013, 03:38 PM
why wouldn't you do it proper

You and I have a vastly different definition of what is "proper."

Also on what qualifies as an adverb or adjective. :redneck

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

This is the one thing I agree with munch on though. It's going to take more than one or two years to have a truly competitive team. I think it goes beyond just the current batch of players throughout the system, the Sox need to not only re-stock on talent on the major league roster but the entire organizational approach needs overhauling. A truly competitive team needs to be able to call up guys mid season as needed who can at least play sound baseball. You can't just add a few quality players and hope they can carry the team. Well, you could, but it doesn't seem like the way to go.

Moses_Scurry
07-03-2013, 03:43 PM
I wouldn't even rule out 2014. Baseball is so unpredictable which is part of what makes it a great game. Nobody saw the Sox being contenders last year and they were. The Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Angels were supposed to run away with everything this year and not one of them is above .500. I will reserve judgment on 2014 until I see what moves Hahn makes.

I'm not ruling out 2014 either. With a decent starting rotation and bullpen, which the Sox have and the fact that their are 2 wildcards now, you really can't be completely out of it to start the season. I also feel that the AL in general is stale right now. For the first time in a really long time, I would say the NL is the stronger league. The Sox don't have to be the top team in the Central, just in the top 1/3 of the AL. That being said, the key is to restrain yourself from messing up 2015 onward in the name of contending in 2014.

kittle42
07-03-2013, 04:00 PM
Hey, Konerko out of the lineup again!

Tough to trade pieces when few of them are healthy enough to play.

DSpivack
07-03-2013, 04:04 PM
Hey, Konerko out of the lineup again!

Tough to trade pieces when few of them are healthy enough to play.

I never really thought of Konerko as a real trade piece, anyway. I'm more worried about Crain in that regard.

eriqjaffe
07-03-2013, 04:27 PM
I never really thought of Konerko as a real trade piece, anyway. I'm more worried about Crain in that regard.Especially since the reports were that Konerko was untouchable anyways.

But, yeah, Crain being injured stinks.

LoveYourSuit
07-03-2013, 04:31 PM
Hey, Konerko out of the lineup again!

Tough to trade pieces when few of them are healthy enough to play.

It is so Sox to have the one year you can have a firesale to rebuild and the pieces are not healthy to trade.

This sucks.

cards press box
07-03-2013, 04:57 PM
I wouldn't even rule out 2014. Baseball is so unpredictable which is part of what makes it a great game. Nobody saw the Sox being contenders last year and they were. The Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Angels were supposed to run away with everything this year and not one of them is above .500. I will reserve judgment on 2014 until I see what moves Hahn makes.

Agreed.

PalehosePlanet
07-03-2013, 04:58 PM
Hey, Konerko out of the lineup again!

Tough to trade pieces when few of them are healthy enough to play.

Yeah but Keppinger has got that OPS up to .570! Wooohooo! That's an Ozzie type of DH right there.

TheVulture
07-03-2013, 05:27 PM
Yeah but Keppinger has got that OPS up to .570! Wooohooo! That's an Ozzie type of DH right there.

With this lineup, the Kotsay/Jones monster would actually be one of the more productive spots in the order.

doublem23
07-03-2013, 06:23 PM
I never really thought of Konerko as a real trade piece, anyway. I'm more worried about Crain in that regard.

Exactly. Konerko's not getting traded, let's just stop thinking that's going to happen.

soxfanreggie
07-03-2013, 08:22 PM
I wouldn't even rule out 2014. Baseball is so unpredictable which is part of what makes it a great game. Nobody saw the Sox being contenders last year and they were. The Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Angels were supposed to run away with everything this year and not one of them is above .500. I will reserve judgment on 2014 until I see what moves Hahn makes.

I don't rule 2014 out, but I don't give it a high probability. If you look at who we'll likely give up here in trades and lose in free agency, we'll probably be replacing them with prospects or veterans on the downside of their career. That doesn't instill a lot of confidence in competing for a championship. I more think of 2014 as a chance to see what we've been building the last couple years and what we got out of trades we will likely make.

The one thing that makes me feel we can be competitive is our starting pitching staff. A healthy Danks and Peavy behind Sale could give us a shot. If we can find Dunn hitting above .220, that would be huge too.

sager729
07-06-2013, 06:24 PM
I've heard some rumblings that teams are starting to show interest in John Danks. I wouldn't mind a rotation of Sale, Peavy, E. Johnson, Santiago and Quintana next season with Axelrod as the 6th starter. They also have a guy like Charlie Leesman who could be a spot starter and a reliever in the bullpen.

I really like the way the pitching is constructed and you know that the Sox will be looking for SP in any trade of Danks, Rios, Al. Ramirez, Crain, Thornton and Lindstrom.

Fastball23
07-07-2013, 03:59 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/7/4501524/mlb-trade-rumors-matt-thornton-red-sox-white-sox?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Red Sox interested in Matt Thornton

Tragg
07-07-2013, 05:31 PM
I've heard some rumblings that teams are starting to show interest in John Danks. I wouldn't mind a rotation of Sale, Peavy, E. Johnson, Santiago and Quintana next season with Axelrod as the 6th starter. They also have a guy like Charlie Leesman who could be a spot starter and a reliever in the bullpen.

I really like the way the pitching is constructed and you know that the Sox will be looking for SP in any trade of Danks, Rios, Al. Ramirez, Crain, Thornton and Lindstrom.

That's fine, if they give us something good for Danks. IN general, you aren't going to get much for overpaid players (which Danks, at this point, is). But he's certainly pitching well. But if it's a salary dump, I would prefer we pass. We probably need to move a lefty, in our situation, and I'd suggest Quintana.

soxfanreggie
07-07-2013, 06:56 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/7/4501524/mlb-trade-rumors-matt-thornton-red-sox-white-sox?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Red Sox interested in Matt Thornton

If he was throwing better, that $6 million option for new year may be enticing to some teams. Relief pitcher is definitely a position where if you're throwing well that you can pitch for ages.

soxfanreggie
07-07-2013, 11:39 PM
Interesting question just came to mind: will Crain be representing the Sox on the team, or will he be wearing a different uniform? It may depend on his health and the impact of that on a trade.

blandman
07-07-2013, 11:52 PM
That's fine, if they give us something good for Danks. IN general, you aren't going to get much for overpaid players (which Danks, at this point, is). But he's certainly pitching well. But if it's a salary dump, I would prefer we pass. We probably need to move a lefty, in our situation, and I'd suggest Quintana.

I think if it's a dump, and someone picks it all up, you trade Danks. There's no guarantee on his shoulder. Don't forget, that surgery was highly experimental. "Success" cases for that surgery include Johan Santana. That's all. And that's considered the success case. He's had so many setbacks/surgeries since then. And he's the most positive example available of someone having a torn shoulder capsule repaired through surgery.

The failures include Mark Prior, Dallas Braden, and Chien-Ming Wang. And while it's positive to see numbers results, it's obvious this is not John Danks we are watching on the mound. It's also worth noting that all of those players came back rough, got better, and then suffered setbacks that ultimately ended their effectiveness.

soxfanreggie
07-08-2013, 12:47 AM
I think if it's a dump, and someone picks it all up, you trade Danks. There's no guarantee on his shoulder. Don't forget, that surgery was highly experimental. "Success" cases for that surgery include Johan Santana. That's all. And that's considered the success case. He's had so many setbacks/surgeries since then. And he's the most positive example available of someone having a torn shoulder capsule repaired through surgery.

The failures include Mark Prior, Dallas Braden, and Chien-Ming Wang. And while it's positive to see numbers results, it's obvious this is not John Danks we are watching on the mound. It's also worth noting that all of those players came back rough, got better, and then suffered setbacks that ultimately ended their effectiveness.

With Danks, I would agree that it might be best to trade him. $42.75 million is a lot to have tied into someone over 3 years with arm problems. Add on top of that, if we are going to pare off a lot of talent soon, we have to ask how competitive we will be in 2014. If we trade him away and are a top starter away from something big, trading Danks could be a huge mistake. If we keep him but are in rebuilding mode, it could be a huge expenditure that cannot be invested in the future.

#1swisher
07-08-2013, 03:50 PM
I've been begging for a decent catcher in the draft. Maybe there will be a good one with our high pick next year. I doubt we get a decent catching prospect here in return. With our success in getting SP seemingly out of thin air with Coop, I'd rather get someone who can start up the middle somewhere in late 2014 or 2015.

Nick Parent, who just completed his junior year at Cal State Monterey Bay, is planning to sign with the White Sox and forgo his senior year of college.

“He flew into Chicago last Monday for the workout and did pretty good,” Mark Parent said. “He plays first and third but they’re going to see if he can catch. What (assistant player development director) Del Matthews said is, ‘As long as he brings his bat, he’ll be all right.’ He swings it pretty good.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/15572/white-sox-create-father-son-combo

doublem23
07-08-2013, 04:14 PM
I would hope Mark talks highly of Nick, as he is his father

Hitmen77
07-08-2013, 04:36 PM
I continue to be baffled that so many people believe it will take the Sox four or five years to return to contention.

This year is obviously cooked, and I'm pretty sure (but not 100 percent sure) the Sox won't be very good next year either. But I wouldn't rule out having a good team again by 2015. It just depends on the moves Hahn makes over the next 18 months or so.

The Sox aren't going to do the same thing they're doing on the other side of town, nor should they. I hear people grump all the time about the Sox "not having a plan." Well, how do we know they don't have a plan? I'm sure they do have a plan; they just don't feel compelled to announce it to the whole world.

It could indeed take 5 years for the Sox to get back into contention. I'm not saying I think that will happen. But, I don't find that possibility hard to imagine.

Of course, the point is that there is no reason that it needs to take 5 years to rebuild. The Sox will have some bad, expensive contracts coming off the books in the next year or two. They have a decent core of 4 lefty starting pitchers to build around. Finally, it sounds like maybe there's finally some signs of hope that talent currently at the lower minor league levels may be ready to help the team in a couple of years. So, maybe Rick Hahn will have this team back as a contender by 2015.

Still, I really can't blame fans for being cynical, angry, and pessimistic at this point in time. It's a brutal season for all of us to endure and it's for the most part been a rather disappointing 4.5 seasons since the last playoff appearance. 2013 is the kind of season that makes cynics out of even optimistic fans. It's been 5 years since the Sox made the playoffs. It's not a stretch to think that they might take another 5 to get back there. Personally, I don't think that's the case. But I'm not going to say it "won't" happen.

soxfanreggie
07-08-2013, 07:13 PM
I would hope Mark talks highly of Nick, as he is his father

I also was meaning to reference someone who is viewed as a top catcher of his class. Perhaps Nick can develop into a ML catcher, but it doesn't sound like he has a lot of experience. You do have success with conversions (ex. SS to pitcher), but I'd rather have someone here in the pipes who already has a great grasp on the position. A 36th-rounder who hasn't caught really don't instill confidence in me that "he's the guy."

Perhaps they identify Phegley and Flowers as their catchers for 2014 (I don't mind keeping Flowers as a back-up).

#1swisher
07-08-2013, 08:44 PM
David Schuster ‏@Schumouse (https://twitter.com/Schumouse) 33m (https://twitter.com/Schumouse/status/354391963069456384)

A flock of major league scouts in attendance tonite and they're certainly not here to see Julio Borbon

Domeshot17
07-08-2013, 11:28 PM
David Schuster ‏@Schumouse (https://twitter.com/Schumouse) 33m (https://twitter.com/Schumouse/status/354391963069456384)

A flock of major league scouts in attendance tonite and they're certainly not here to see Julio Borbon

Almost all there to see Garza.... Thornton didn't help his cause, lord does this team just suck ....even the cubs have it better than us...

24thStFan
07-08-2013, 11:30 PM
Trade Thorton now before everyone else figures out he sucks.

slavko
07-08-2013, 11:53 PM
Trade Thorton now before everyone else figures out he sucks.

Got a hot flash for you all.....:redneck

Tragg
07-09-2013, 01:08 AM
It could indeed take 5 years for the Sox to get back into contention. I'm not saying I think that will happen. But, I don't find that possibility hard to imagine.

Of course, the point is that there is no reason that it needs to take 5 years to rebuild. The Sox will have some bad, expensive contracts coming off the books in the next year or two. They have a decent core of 4 lefty starting pitchers to build around. Finally, it sounds like maybe there's finally some signs of hope that talent currently at the lower minor league levels may be ready to help the team in a couple of years. So, maybe Rick Hahn will have this team back as a contender by 2015.

As each day passes and the players look worse and worse, any return we get for them diminishes greatly. At this point, it looks like we'll get nothing for anyone currently on the ML roster (whom we want to trade) except for Rios, and he's hitting poorly himself. So how do you rebuild in a couple of years? The only way is to take more bad contracts like the ones we have now.

balke
07-09-2013, 07:28 AM
As each day passes and the players look worse and worse, any return we get for them diminishes greatly. At this point, it looks like we'll get nothing for anyone currently on the ML roster (whom we want to trade) except for Rios, and he's hitting poorly himself. So how do you rebuild in a couple of years? The only way is to take more bad contracts like the ones we have now.

Or wait 2 years for a ridiculous amount of money to come off the books. At least the Sox can shake things up. I don't get excited about anyone on this team. The way people are salivating over Phegley after 9 at bats should show how desperate the fans are for some new faces.

kittle42
07-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Or wait 2 years for a ridiculous amount of money to come off the books. At least the Sox can shake things up. I don't get excited about anyone on this team. The way people are salivating over Phegley after 9 at bats should show how desperate the fans are for some new faces.

Amen. The Kids Can Play Part II should really be a possibility here. How can anyone not support a blow up right now? At this rate, we'll challenge the Astros for worst record.

SCCWS
07-09-2013, 11:23 AM
As each day passes and the players look worse and worse, any return we get for them diminishes greatly. At this point, it looks like we'll get nothing for anyone currently on the ML roster (whom we want to trade) except for Rios, and he's hitting poorly himself. So how do you rebuild in a couple of years? The only way is to take more bad contracts like the ones we have now.

Maybe not. Lefties are hitting .176 against Thornton whereas righties are hitting .333. The Red Sox, for example, need a left-hander, as their guy just went down for the season. In their division they need a lefty for late game against Cano and Davis. But Thornton may not bring a top prospect since righties are lighting him up, but hopefully he could go for a second tier player.

cws05champ
07-09-2013, 01:27 PM
Amen. The Kids Can Play Part II should really be a possibility here. How can anyone not support a blow up right now? At this rate, we'll challenge the Astros for worst record.

The way this team is right now, I wouldn't be upset about a top 3 pick next year....or even the top pick. Carlos Rodon from NC State would be a great get and up fairly fast.

With a top of the rotation of Sale, Rodon, Danks I would imagine they could be competitive fairly quickly.

slavko
07-09-2013, 01:53 PM
Maybe not. Lefties are hitting .176 against Thornton whereas righties are hitting .333. The Red Sox, for example, need a left-hander, as their guy just went down for the season. In their division they need a lefty for late game against Cano and Davis. But Thornton may not bring a top prospect since righties are lighting him up, but hopefully he could go for a second tier player.

So he's a glorified LOOGY. Or not so glorified. That makes sense.

SCCWS
07-09-2013, 02:42 PM
So he's a glorified LOOGY. Or not so glorified. That makes sense.

One other major factor. Who else needs a lefty??? If any of the other AL East teams have the same need the Red Sox now have, the value of Thornton goes up if he is the best lefty available. For example, the Red Sox may pay more to fill the need while keeping the player away from the Yankees or O's.

Tragg
07-09-2013, 02:49 PM
Last night is just an example of how the Sox just butcher opportunities. Ventura should have been under orders to use Thornton only against lefties. Instead, he gives him an inning.

FielderJones
07-09-2013, 02:59 PM
Last night is just an example of how the Sox just butcher opportunities. Ventura should have been under orders to use Thornton only against lefties. Instead, he gives him an inning.

Given that you can't use Crain, who do you want to pitch the 8th inning? Other than Reed, pick your bum.

Noneck
07-09-2013, 03:19 PM
Given that you can't use Crain, who do you want to pitch the 8th inning? Other than Reed, pick your bum.

Ill go with Casper.

Tragg
07-09-2013, 06:12 PM
Given that you can't use Crain, who do you want to pitch the 8th inning? Other than Reed, pick your bum.
Whomever. Use the worst guy if you have to.
Winning the game is secondary to primping and preening these players to be traded and/or to be developed for the future. That's why throwing our starters 120 innings is inane at this point. The front office should be on Ventura about that nonsense.

Domeshot17
07-09-2013, 07:35 PM
Whomever. Use the worst guy if you have to.
Winning the game is secondary to primping and preening these players to be traded and/or to be developed for the future. That's why throwing our starters 120 innings is inane at this point. The front office should be on Ventura about that nonsense.

Spot on. Robin doesn't seem capable of not managing to win. Right now, we win by putting guys in the best chance to succeed, and then get the maximum value for them. Thornton goes out for a week straight and gets 1 or 2 LH outs then leaves, maybe he gets dealt. He goes out and does...that... and teams look elsewhere.

Probably the biggest kick in the gut last night was not only being swept by the Cubs, but the fact their trade parts shined while ours looked worthless.

At this point, would anyone not trade rosters and farm systems with the Cubs if you had a chance?

all*star quentin
07-09-2013, 08:28 PM
Robin and Rick met for 30 minutes today.

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox-talk/white-sox-notes-simulated-game-goes-well-peavy

Tragg
07-09-2013, 11:44 PM
Robin and Rick met for 30 minutes today.

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox-talk/white-sox-notes-simulated-game-goes-well-peavy

I would hope there was a lot more to the meeting that just keeping him apprised...like finding out why the team tanked under ventura's leadership, and how Hahn wants players used to maximize their trade value.
I can't imagine that they'll do anything but DFA Wise when he returns. There's no point in continuing to clown around with 35 year old veterans who can't hit.

soxfanreggie
07-10-2013, 01:01 AM
I would hope there was a lot more to the meeting that just keeping him apprised...like finding out why the team tanked under ventura's leadership, and how Hahn wants players used to maximize their trade value.
I can't imagine that they'll do anything but DFA Wise when he returns. There's no point in continuing to clown around with 35 year old veterans who can't hit.

It could easily be thrown back on KW and Hahn as to why he was "stuck" with guys who can't perform or stay healthy. You could say that Coop is a miracle worker with the starters having between $24 and $39 million in starting pitching on the DL at any given time so far (Floyd and Danks/Peavy).

Tragg
07-10-2013, 01:05 AM
It could easily be thrown back on KW and Hahn as to why he was "stuck" with guys who can't perform or stay healthy. You could say that Coop is a miracle worker with the starters having between $24 and $39 million in starting pitching on the DL at any given time so far (Floyd and Danks/Peavy).
Yes, that would explain why we aren't contending. But the players are playing well below their talent level, overall and have been tanking.

PorkChopExpress
07-10-2013, 09:39 AM
I would hope there was a lot more to the meeting that just keeping him apprised...like finding out why the team tanked under ventura's leadership, and how Hahn wants players used to maximize their trade value.
I can't imagine that they'll do anything but DFA Wise when he returns. There's no point in continuing to clown around with 35 year old veterans who can't hit.

Unless they trade Rios, De Aza, and possibly Tank. Even if they hold on to Viciedo, they may still want a veteran OF to use from time to time. It's not like he's costing much.

SCCWS
07-10-2013, 11:14 AM
Spot on. Robin doesn't seem capable of not managing to win. Right now, we win by putting guys in the best chance to succeed, and then get the maximum value for them. Thornton goes out for a week straight and gets 1 or 2 LH outs then leaves, maybe he gets dealt. He goes out and does...that... and teams look elsewhere.

?

Sometimes the way a team uses a player is at the request of the other team. The opposing GM may want to see a player in certain situations and Hahn may do that with the hope of getting a higher return.

PalehosePlanet
07-10-2013, 12:27 PM
I would hope there was a lot more to the meeting that just keeping him apprised...like finding out why the team tanked under ventura's leadership, and how Hahn wants players used to maximize their trade value.
I can't imagine that they'll do anything but DFA Wise when he returns. There's no point in continuing to clown around with 35 year old veterans who can't hit.

If we don't trade any of our current OF'ers then I agree. If we do, however, there is no point in dumping him if we have no one in the minors ready to take his place. You keep him around as a temporary place-holder, more or less, until we have better options.

Look at the Cubs for instance, they have a whole bunch of castoffs, career backups, AAAA type players on their roster while they await players from either the minors or an FA signing to take their place.

blandman
07-10-2013, 12:38 PM
Yes, that would explain why we aren't contending. But the players are playing well below their talent level, overall and have been tanking.

Nope.

kittle42
07-10-2013, 12:39 PM
[/B]

If we don't trade any of our current OF'ers then I agree. If we do, however, there is no point in dumping him if we have no one in the minors ready to take his place. You keep him around as a temporary place-holder, more or less, until we have better options.

Look at the Cubs for instance, they have a whole bunch of castoffs, career backups, AAAA type players on their roster while they await players from either the minors or an FA signing to take their place.

Right - was thinking of the Marlins and guys like Greg Dobbs, too. Every team needs those bodies.

CPditka
07-10-2013, 02:16 PM
Buster_ESPN (http://www.twittergadget.com/gadget.asp?exp_rpc_js=1&exp_track_js=1&st=c%3Dig%26e%3DAPu7icqPh4KRMljspSIT3i4XWaaCmG0f8m NGybbF3Acvbf02qfr1TX/VJNXnbJQ4cWZjly2OH%252BDmf%252B4vlfaZBJRJeoMLbvfO3 a4uaGHwRY60VlySkayKn0uoM9warZw5jy4D2lQsUnsd&libs=O9qWqbBSfso/lib/liberror_tracker.js,TM9rPSbJTeE/lib/librpc.js,AnWxSJT8VyA/lib/libcore.js,I5pPSzUsYcI/lib/libdynamic-height.js,MGc1QrOBh8g/lib/libsettitle.js&container=ig&view=home&lang=en&country=US&sanitize=0&v=331326cf6728c776&parent=http://www.google.com&is_signedin=1&synd=ig&mid=134#): The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks.

asindc
07-10-2013, 02:24 PM
Buster_ESPN (http://www.twittergadget.com/gadget.asp?exp_rpc_js=1&exp_track_js=1&st=c%3Dig%26e%3DAPu7icqPh4KRMljspSIT3i4XWaaCmG0f8m NGybbF3Acvbf02qfr1TX/VJNXnbJQ4cWZjly2OH%252BDmf%252B4vlfaZBJRJeoMLbvfO3 a4uaGHwRY60VlySkayKn0uoM9warZw5jy4D2lQsUnsd&libs=O9qWqbBSfso/lib/liberror_tracker.js,TM9rPSbJTeE/lib/librpc.js,AnWxSJT8VyA/lib/libcore.js,I5pPSzUsYcI/lib/libdynamic-height.js,MGc1QrOBh8g/lib/libsettitle.js&container=ig&view=home&lang=en&country=US&sanitize=0&v=331326cf6728c776&parent=http://www.google.com&is_signedin=1&synd=ig&mid=134#): The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks.



Question: If the Sox don't get the offers they are seeking and decide to stand pat rather than sell below market value, how would any of you feel about that?

voodoochile
07-10-2013, 02:27 PM
Question: If the Sox don't get the offers they are seeking and decide to stand pat rather than sell below market value, how would any of you feel about that?

:shrug:

Tragg
07-10-2013, 02:35 PM
Nope.

Yes they have been. These same players won 85+ games last year. That was not 30 games above their head.
The ridiculous hyperbole doesn't help.
I note Quintana, whom you claim is well below average, outpitched Verlander, as he has done all season.

Tragg
07-10-2013, 02:36 PM
Question: If the Sox don't get the offers they are seeking and decide to stand pat rather than sell below market value, how would any of you feel about that?

Any player whose contract expires at the end of this year should be dumped on deadline day if you aren't getting fair value. But I can't imagine why we wouldn't get fair value.
Any player whose contract doesn't expire, should be withheld, if fair value isn't there.
A guy like Dunn will always have more value in trade in his contract year, because of his salary and because the other team has no trust that he can hit decently the following year.

kittle42
07-10-2013, 02:58 PM
Question: If the Sox don't get the offers they are seeking and decide to stand pat rather than sell below market value, how would any of you feel about that?

I'd buckle down for three more years or so of similar records while *not* improving the future at all.

In short, I'd be majorly pissed.

asindc
07-10-2013, 03:17 PM
I'd buckle down for three more years or so of similar records while *not* improving the future at all.

In short, I'd be majorly pissed.

To be more precise, I'll rephrase my question as this: Which would upset you more, either 1) the Sox did not sell below market because they did not get any better offers, or 2) the Sox did sell below market because those were the best offers they got?

I'm not sure which I prefer myself, since there are certain players I want to see go at almost any cost. I don't want to have a giveaway either, though.

Noneck
07-10-2013, 03:28 PM
To be more precise, I'll rephrase my question as this: Which would upset you more, either 1) the Sox did not sell below market because they did not get any better offers, or 2) the Sox did sell below market because those were the best offers they got?




We wont know what was offered in return, who they are offering to give up or what is the market value. I feel as though its impossible to answer.

Tragg
07-10-2013, 03:32 PM
To be more precise, I'll rephrase my question as this: Which would upset you more, either 1) the Sox did not sell below market because they did not get any better offers, or 2) the Sox did sell below market because those were the best offers they got?

I'm not sure which I prefer myself, since there are certain players I want to see go at almost any cost. I don't want to have a giveaway either, though.

Depends on who we're talking about. They can sell Crain, Konerko, Lindstrom and Thornton for below value if they have to.
I'd hold Rios and Peavy to next year.

#1swisher
07-10-2013, 04:18 PM
Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN (https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN) 11m (https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/355055545486544896)
Per @nickcafardo (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo), #RedSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23RedSox&src=hash) have looked at #WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox&src=hash) Matt Thornton, Matt Lindstrom and Addison Reed. Have heard price for Thornton is steep.


Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo) 53m (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/355046318294581251)
The Red Sox are looking everywhere for relief. Interested in White Sox trio Addison Reed, Matt Thornton and Matt Lindstrom

kittle42
07-10-2013, 04:36 PM
Have heard price for Thornton is steep.

Why, is this four years ago?!

Tragg
07-10-2013, 04:41 PM
Why, is this four years ago?!

No kidding.

Harry Potter
07-10-2013, 04:47 PM
Ken Rosenthal
Attention, #WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox&src=hash). Time to entertain trade offers for Chris Sale.

Here’s why: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago-white-sox-should-make-pitcher-chris-sale-available-071013 … (http://t.co/T8F4OxvVlZ)

If I’m Hahn, I’m not shopping Sale to all 29 other clubs. No, I’m doing this quietly, targeting only a select few contenders with rich farm systems — say, Texas, Boston, Arizona and St. Louis.

And, if I can’t get a monster return — the type of haul that the Rangers received for Mark Teixeira at the 2007 non-waiver deadline (Elvis Andrus (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/elvis-andrus/609459?q=elvis-andrus), Neftali Feliz (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/neftali-feliz/615863?q=neftali-feliz), Matt Harrison (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/matt-harrison/516669?q=matt-harrison), Jarrod Saltalamacchia (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/jarrod-saltalamacchia/443871?q=jarrod-saltalamacchia)) — then I’m not moving Sale at all.

Harry Potter
07-10-2013, 04:50 PM
More from article

The current team is unwatchable. The Tigers are the beast of the division, while the Indians, Royals and Twins all appear better positioned than the White Sox for the future. And it’s not as if the Cubs are going to embarrass the Sox and win a World Series anytime soon, not when they’re going through a dramatic reconstruction themselves.


I know this is Hahn’s first year as GM. I know the White Sox under Williams were a go-for-it franchise that never wanted to concede. Well, times have changed. And dramatic action is necessary.

Tragg
07-10-2013, 05:36 PM
Sure they should entertain it...probably do it...if they knew they'd get a Tex haul. But they won't be offered that and you'll never know that's what you got until you have it anyway.

asindc
07-10-2013, 05:39 PM
Sure they should entertain it...probably do it...if they knew they'd get a Tex haul. But they won't be offered that and you'll never know that's what you got until you have it anyway.

The BIG difference between dealing Tex vs. Sale is that Tex was a pending FA due to make a huge salary, while Sale is still cost-controlled. I wouldn't do it unless a similar package plus an established all-star came back.

Flight #24
07-10-2013, 05:52 PM
To be more precise, I'll rephrase my question as this: Which would upset you more, either 1) the Sox did not sell below market because they did not get any better offers, or 2) the Sox did sell below market because those were the best offers they got?

I'm not sure which I prefer myself, since there are certain players I want to see go at almost any cost. I don't want to have a giveaway either, though.

Here's the problem: If you think the market value for Thornton is a class A prospect (however you define that), and other teams are only offering you class B (B<A), then it's not that you're only getting offers below market value, it's that the market value is B and your estimate that it's A is incorrect.

That's what market value means. Now you could decide he's worth more to you than the market value and keep him (i.e. you decide that you have no replacements so it's worth more to you to keep him than for other teams to trade for him), but that's different from determining what his MV is.

Anyone who's not here for at least 2 years should be shopped. 2015 is the first year you can hope to contend IMO, and that's if the stars align, 2016 is more likely to be the earliest you'll see some results.

blandman
07-10-2013, 06:55 PM
Yes they have been. These same players won 85+ games last year. That was not 30 games above their head.
The ridiculous hyperbole doesn't help.
I note Quintana, whom you claim is well below average, outpitched Verlander, as he has done all season.

It's hyperbole to take also-rans and say their also-ran performance is somehow below expectation.

It's hyperbole to claim Verlander has been outpitched by Quintana. Before yesterday, Verlander had Quintana in EVERY pitching category. Today, he has a .04 advantage in a single category, ERA. Even now, he's not outpitching Verlander. Not even close.

It's hyperbole to say that this team is last year's squad. It's not. It's got old players who regressed last year, the year before, and now this year. That's not bad luck or unexpected production. That's a natural progression that every reasonable person saw coming. It's unfair to not expect regression simply becuase we barely lost the division last year with a ****ty team. It's unfair not to expect Dunn to suck. There is significant precedent. It's unfair not to expect our pitchers to spend significant time hurt or ineffective. They've proven to be made of glass. It's not unfair to have expected our defense to be bad. We replaced solid and exceptional defenders with guys that had no place on the diamond, and got a career season out of our shortstop defensively that now people want to act like is the expectation. That's unreasonable, it was the only year he was that good. Blame yourself for that. And most importantly, it is not unfair to expect players like Flowers, Viciedo, et al to completely bust. What's not fair is saying that it is unfair. How is it unfair? Because the team told you they weren't garbage? Because ten vocal posters mirrored that this offseason based on nothing but their gut and a word from the GM that opposed the view of every expert imaginable? Sorry, they are garbage and they always were. Next year, they'll still be garbage.

This team isn't going to lose 100 games because they're having career worst seasons. This team is going to lose 100 games because they're miserably beyond hope of rectification 100 loss bad. Luck doesn't cause that. You have to be bad to do that. We are bad. Accept it. The more you cling to the false notion that we're not, the more miserable you will be.

soxfanreggie
07-10-2013, 07:27 PM
Question: If the Sox don't get the offers they are seeking and decide to stand pat rather than sell below market value, how would any of you feel about that?

I'd hope they'd sell. I think they'll need the salary relief. What benefit do we have in keeping a guy like Thornton. What we may be able to work out is a multiple pitcher deal: Thornton + Lid for prospects.

As far as comparisons to last year, I think we were healthier last year along with more production from Peavy. You also had AJ's offense and PK's too. Throw in Alexei stinking it up and you have quite a difference.

white sox bill
07-11-2013, 08:10 AM
Speaking of trading Sale, ya gotta wonder with his mechanics, that skinny arm and so on, is he a surgery waiting for a happening? Maybe a trade should be entertained

Golden Sox
07-11-2013, 09:30 AM
I keep reading where Hahn says the White Sox will build their team around their starting pitching. If that's true perhaps the White Sox won't make any major trades before the deadline. If Hahn keeps the starting pitching we have, the only way he could improve this team in the offseason is sign some free agents who can hit. There are numerous free agents who can hit and help this team. (K. Morales, Mclouth, and McCann) Keeping our starting pitching and adding some free agents who can hit would be the fastest and easiest way to turn this team around. They might make some minor moves before the deadline but it looks to me as if nothing major will happen.

The Immigrant
07-11-2013, 09:35 AM
"Chris Sale is ours, and you can't have him."

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/7/11/4513290/white-sox-trade-rumors-chris-safe-pffffffffffffffft

Chez
07-11-2013, 09:47 AM
Speaking of trading Sale, ya gotta wonder with his mechanics, that skinny arm and so on, is he a surgery waiting for a happening? Maybe a trade should be entertained

Oh, please. Not again! Round 36 of the [not so] great debate: Chris Sale v. Inevitable Tommy John Surgery.

doublem23
07-11-2013, 10:39 AM
"Chris Sale is ours, and you can't have him."

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/7/11/4513290/white-sox-trade-rumors-chris-safe-pffffffffffffffft

Great share, thank you

SCCWS
07-11-2013, 11:40 AM
I'd hope they'd sell. I think they'll need the salary relief. What benefit do we have in keeping a guy like Thornton. What we may be able to work out is a multiple pitcher deal: Thornton + Lid for prospects.

As far as comparisons to last year, I think we were healthier last year along with more production from Peavy. You also had AJ's offense and PK's too. Throw in Alexei stinking it up and you have quite a difference.

Actually the Red Sox are at least looking at Rios as well. They have had a lot of missed games by outfielders. With Ellsbury most likely leaving after this year, maybe a Thornton-Rios package might get us a couple of their 2nd tier prospects

Tragg
07-11-2013, 06:34 PM
Actually the Red Sox are at least looking at Rios as well. They have had a lot of missed games by outfielders. With Ellsbury most likely leaving after this year, maybe a Thornton-Rios package might get us a couple of their 2nd tier prospects

We should get a good prospect for Rios. Not elite, but right after that.

SCCWS
07-11-2013, 07:41 PM
We should get a good prospect for Rios. Not elite, but right after that.

They have 2 studs in AAA ( SS and CF) who are considered untouchable especially considering Ellsbury's situation. But they have another SS/3B who has been tearing up in ML ( hitting .387 over 50 games) since recalled 6 weeks ago. He is probably also untouchable now. They also have 3 young third-basemen--ML-AAA-AA. Maybe the AA will be available.

RCWHITESOX
07-11-2013, 07:51 PM
They have 2 studs in AAA ( SS and CF) who are considered untouchable especially considering Ellsbury's situation. But they have another SS/3B who has been tearing up in ML ( hitting .387 over 50 games) since recalled 6 weeks ago. He is probably also untouchable now. They also have 3 young third-basemen--ML-AAA-AA. Maybe the AA will be available.

Tell the Red Sox to anti up. If they want Rios and Thornton the Sox should stand their ground and demand Iglesias and the AA prospect or one of the studs (prospect) or move on too another team.

EMachine10
07-11-2013, 08:16 PM
.Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN) 28m (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/355473490125656064) One of the outfielders the Rangers are looking at is Alex Rios of the White Sox, who is under contract for 2014, at $12.5m, option for '15.

soxnut1018
07-12-2013, 12:38 AM
Tell the Red Sox to anti up. If they want Rios and Thornton the Sox should stand their ground and demand Iglesias and the AA prospect or one of the studs (prospect) or move on too another team.

I know it won't happen, but I'd love Bogaerts for Rios and Thornton.

KRS1
07-12-2013, 01:51 AM
Tell the Red Sox to anti up. If they want Rios and Thornton the Sox should stand their ground and demand Iglesias and the AA prospect or one of the studs (prospect) or move on too another team.
Absolutely. While we can't wait forever to kick start this rebuild, there's no reason not to demand max value this deadline on Rios. There's clear competitive interest in him and settling doesn't help Hahn or this franchise in any future - immediate or otherwise. I would settle for one real boom-or-bust stud who may be a bit off and extras, but it has to be centered around a potential impact player.

SCCWS
07-12-2013, 09:17 AM
I know it won't happen, but I'd love Bogaerts for Rios and Thornton.


From all I have read, Bogaerts and Bradley are untouchable. I am guessing Iglesias is also now in that group after his showing since being called up. That makes Middlebrooks expendable but he is in a hitting funk in AAA. My guess is White Sox would go for their AA 3rd baseman who is highly regarded. Red Sox unfortunately continue to win and their bullpen seems to be holding in. But they need a lefty.

#1swisher
07-13-2013, 10:09 AM
Chicago White Sox ‏@whitesox (https://twitter.com/whitesox) 10h (https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/355890243213340673)

Hahn on other trades: "We remain active on a number of fronts, & we're going to keep talking and see where it leads over the coming weeks."

Fastball23
07-16-2013, 09:42 AM
Colorado Rockies ‏@DPRockies39m (https://twitter.com/DPRockies/status/357122611999809536)
Jesse Crain being shopped by White Sox, could return to Colorado http://dpo.st/148SiI0 (http://dpo.st/148SiI0)

MLB Injury News ‏@MLBInjuryNews14h (https://twitter.com/MLBInjuryNews/status/356907971638337539)
Yankees Rumors: Alex Rios to New York?: The Yankees, who are a team that is battling injuries, appear to ... http://bit.ly/1bi21yK (http://t.co/lAmFJAdlw4)#MLB (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23MLB&src=hash)

Cliff Lippert ‏@Cliffy46405 1h (https://twitter.com/Cliffy46405/status/357126802621202433)
Ken Rosenthal just speculated that another name pitcher BIGGER than Garza might get moved. Just said this on WEEI. Floated Chris Sale name

Fastball23
07-16-2013, 10:16 AM
Detroit Tigers rumors: Jesse Crain a fit if White Sox are willing http://www.snsanalytics.com/rtpfy6 (http://www.snsanalytics.com/rtpfy6)


Alex Rios to the Phillies?? Deadline trade targets: White Sox outfielders http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/deadline-trade-targets-white-sox-outfielders … (http://t.co/bBxzt7Y9Ay)

Fastball23
07-16-2013, 10:40 AM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 34s (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/357147266332631041)
Today's podcast. http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9481958 … (http://t.co/aKs9qM37HM) Lots of trade talk: Rangers, White Sox, Cubs, Garza, Rios; Derby; lots of All-Star voices.

Chez
07-16-2013, 11:11 AM
I listened to the Buster Olney podcast. He had Mark Gonzales from the Tribune on. Lots of interest in Crain (Boston, Texas) & Peavy (AZ, SF) & Rios (Pitt & Texas). Zero interest among other teams in Ramirez. Gonzo also mentioned the need to slash payroll before the start of the 2014 season because, due to the relative strength of other teams in the A.L. Central, the Sox won't be contending during their rebuild. Olney speculated that JR may be considering selling the team sooner rather than later. Gonzo didn't think so.

Bruce Levine was on before Gonzo analyzing the Cubs and you would think everyone in baseball should be interested in Kevin Gregg and Nate Scheirholtz. :smile:

blandman
07-16-2013, 05:55 PM
Detroit Tigers rumors: Jesse Crain a fit if White Sox are willing http://www.snsanalytics.com/rtpfy6 (http://www.snsanalytics.com/rtpfy6)


Alex Rios to the Phillies?? Deadline trade targets: White Sox outfielders http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/deadline-trade-targets-white-sox-outfielders … (http://t.co/bBxzt7Y9Ay)

I don't think the Phillies have good enough prospects.

Marqhead
07-16-2013, 06:02 PM
I don't think the Phillies have good enough prospects.

Domonic Brown.

Tragg
07-16-2013, 06:09 PM
I don't think the Phillies have good enough prospects.

Realistically, what kind of prospects do you think Rios nets? I'd think 2 Bs...maybe a B and a B+
The Rangers could use him, particularly if Nellie Cruz is suspended. They'd probably offer Olt...not sure about that.

DirtySox
07-16-2013, 07:26 PM
I don't think the Phillies have good enough prospects.

Mikail Franco & Jesse Biddle are both fine prospects. The Sox would love either of them.

Tragg
07-16-2013, 08:53 PM
Bruce Levine was on before Gonzo analyzing the Cubs and you would think everyone in baseball should be interested in Kevin Gregg and Nate Scheirholtz. :smile:

Good lord.
Gregg? You can get MacDougal for free.

DSpivack
07-16-2013, 09:02 PM
Mikail Franco & Jesse Biddle are both fine prospects. The Sox would love either of them.

The better question might be why are the Phillies buyers?

DirtySox
07-16-2013, 09:07 PM
The better question might be why are the Phillies buyers?

I'm not sure they are, but they certainly have some worthy prospect currency.

TheVulture
07-16-2013, 11:39 PM
The better question might be why are the Phillies buyers?

Maybe because there is only two teams standing between them and a wildcard slot?

DSpivack
07-16-2013, 11:53 PM
Maybe because there is only two teams standing between them and a wildcard slot?

There are a number of teams floating around .500. The Phillies are one of the oldest teams in baseball and desperately need some more young talent.

soxfanreggie
07-17-2013, 05:34 AM
Colorado Rockies ‏@DPRockies39m (https://twitter.com/DPRockies/status/357122611999809536)
Jesse Crain being shopped by White Sox, could return to Colorado http://dpo.st/148SiI0 (http://dpo.st/148SiI0)

MLB Injury News ‏@MLBInjuryNews14h (https://twitter.com/MLBInjuryNews/status/356907971638337539)
Yankees Rumors: Alex Rios to New York?: The Yankees, who are a team that is battling injuries, appear to ... http://bit.ly/1bi21yK (http://t.co/lAmFJAdlw4)#MLB (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23MLB&src=hash)

Cliff Lippert ‏@Cliffy46405 1h (https://twitter.com/Cliffy46405/status/357126802621202433)
Ken Rosenthal just speculated that another name pitcher BIGGER than Garza might get moved. Just said this on WEEI. Floated Chris Sale name

Good with Rios and Crain. It would be interesting to see what the packages being floated for Sale are.

Tragg
07-17-2013, 10:01 AM
Good with Rios and Crain. It would be interesting to see what the packages being floated for Sale are.
Which team has 4 top-50 prospects?

And no declining veterans that the Sox know and love so well, please. Don't use him, or anyone else, to build another ceiling 85 win team.

This is a trade suggestion I like.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/29166/insider-sox-trade-that-must-happen

russ99
07-17-2013, 03:58 PM
Which team has 4 top-50 prospects?


Astros, but they're surely not trading four of them for Sale, when Cosart or Appel could pitch at the same level within 2-3 years.

Let's be realistic, there's no way a team is going to completely sell the farm for Sale. We may get two A-level prospects/young MLB players and some lesser prospects with upside in the lower minors.

In which case, it would depend on who's coming back.

Tragg
07-17-2013, 04:03 PM
Astros, but they're surely not trading four of them for Sale, when Cosart or Appel could pitch at the same level within 2-3 years.

Let's be realistic, there's no way a team is going to completely sell the farm for Sale. We may get two A-level prospects/young MLB players and some lesser prospects with upside in the lower minors.

Key word COULD. Very few will or do. But obviously the Astros wouldn't trade for him....they're years away from contending themselves.

As for two A- prospects, better not tell that to the Cubs who think they're getting an A for Garza (which, of course, they won't). And that's why you keep Sale, as teams won't even give up a prospect who even projects to be as good as him, if he hits maximum potential and things go perfectly.

The Astros made a terrific trade getting 2 A/A- prospects for Pence who was then very good but never a difference maker.

Domeshot17
07-17-2013, 04:28 PM
If Sale goes anywhere, it will be Texas IMHO.

I have said this a lot, will say it again, but a combo of Profar-Perez-Olt-Grimm or even a bounce back guy like Feliz, I would do it. I LOVE Chris Sale, I hope we keep him, but a few teams CAN get him if they wanted

DirtySox
07-17-2013, 06:52 PM
Which team has 4 top-50 prospects?

Texas, St Louis, and Boston have the goods.

I'd personally love a return of Taveras and Wacha plus Wong/Adams etc. Though I still believe any Sale trade rumors are bogus.

balke
07-17-2013, 07:50 PM
Sale is the guy you want to build around. I can't imagine the Sox get anywhere close to the return you should for a player like that.

This team has an enormous amount of money coming off the books the next 2 years. Don't be dumb. Shed more salary early, and make sound investments. This team can be rebuilt pretty quick with money alone.

I don't believe in this idea that you keep it together and add a guy or two though. This team isn't even close.

If you can dump Peavy's money on someone, could invest in Josh Johnson with Don Cooper in the house. I don't see many hitters in the free agent market that make sense for the Sox until 2015 though. They need some complete studs to step in soon to replace Konerko's contributions and upgrade Dunn's position. Maybe hold on to Rios to make sure you have a guy around in 2015 if you think you can get a team together by then.

Domeshot17
07-17-2013, 08:29 PM
Sale is the guy you want to build around. I can't imagine the Sox get anywhere close to the return you should for a player like that.

This team has an enormous amount of money coming off the books the next 2 years. Don't be dumb. Shed more salary early, and make sound investments. This team can be rebuilt pretty quick with money alone.

I don't believe in this idea that you keep it together and add a guy or two though. This team isn't even close.

If you can dump Peavy's money on someone, could invest in Josh Johnson with Don Cooper in the house. I don't see many hitters in the free agent market that make sense for the Sox until 2015 though. They need some complete studs to step in soon to replace Konerko's contributions and upgrade Dunn's position. Maybe hold on to Rios to make sure you have a guy around in 2015 if you think you can get a team together by then.

You cant build this team on money alone, not even close, not with the paltry farm we have. You have to restock the farm and supplement between home grown quality and top free agents. Right now, looking at 2015, the Sox do not have a number 2 SP (assuming Danks never comes back 100% from the surgery but remains a quality 3)... you have a 1, a 3, and a collection of back end arms. 2015 the Tigers will still have Verlander and Scherzer, minus a trade/injury.....

Offensively, you have an 8 or 9 hitter in Gordon and you have a 7 or 8 hitter MAYBE in Phegley. Nothing in the farm resembles a middle of the order hitter by 2015. It won't be easy.

You don't keep Rios, he will be like 34 or 35 at that point.

SCCWS
07-17-2013, 08:36 PM
I don't see many hitters in the free agent market that make sense for the Sox until 2015 though. They need some complete studs to step in soon to replace Konerko's contributions and upgrade Dunn's position. Maybe hold on to Rios to make sure you have a guy around in 2015 if you think you can get a team together by then.

I don't think he would come to White Sox since he is a Boras guy, but how about Ellsbury???? Has had some injury issues, many of which have been caused by his effort going after balls, but he is a solid hitter and a great base-stealer. Rumors here in New England say he is going to Cubs.

TheVulture
07-18-2013, 11:59 AM
Choo would be a great pickup, though I imagine he'll be going for a pretty penny. Having a bat like that in the 2 hole would definitely stabilize the offense, though he'd probably have to hit third with this lineup.

kittle42
07-18-2013, 01:13 PM
Choo would be a great pickup, though I imagine he'll be going for a pretty penny. Having a bat like that in the 2 hole would definitely stabilize the offense, though he'd probably have to hit third with this lineup.

Why would the Reds move him?

Moses_Scurry
07-18-2013, 01:27 PM
Why would the Reds move him?

I believe he is a free agent after this season. These posts are about signing him.

pythons007
07-18-2013, 02:25 PM
His splits are pretty ****ty! Could end up a platoon player....

voodoochile
07-19-2013, 10:25 PM
Rios was pulled for Casper Wells in the top of the 7th. He's not injured and the game day thread says he was seen hugging teammates in the dugout.

Gammons Peter
07-19-2013, 10:26 PM
twitter is blowing up

Robert T Simon ‏@RobertSimonEsq 1m
@mlbtraderumors @Ken_Rosenthal Alex Rios headed to Pirates. Package includes at least Hanson. Did they part with Polanco or Taillon? TBD

Gammons Peter
07-19-2013, 10:27 PM
Brian Hamilton ‏@BHam2421 2m
Sounds like Alex Rios to #Pirates for Alan Hansen. Great deal for #WhiteSox if true.

Doug Padilla ‏@ESPNChiSox 15m
Alen Hanson, Pirates SS prospect, pulled from his game nearly the same time Rios pulled from this one. Coincidence? Stay tuned.

my favorite:
Fornelli ‏@SouthSideAsylum 7m
BREAKING: Alex Rios traded to the Rangers for Matt Garza
Followed by Scott Merkin and 4 others

Tragg
07-19-2013, 10:36 PM
Hanson's a lot more than I thought we'd get for Rios.
Hope we're not throwing a young player in there.

soxfanreggie
07-19-2013, 10:40 PM
Brian Hamilton ‏@BHam2421 2m
Sounds like Alex Rios to #Pirates for Alan Hansen. Great deal for #WhiteSox if true.

Doug Padilla ‏@ESPNChiSox 15m
Alen Hanson, Pirates SS prospect, pulled from his game nearly the same time Rios pulled from this one. Coincidence? Stay tuned.

my favorite:
Fornelli ‏@SouthSideAsylum 7m
BREAKING: Alex Rios traded to the Rangers for Matt Garza
Followed by Scott Merkin and 4 others

I'm hoping this is true...well, the first two!

Actually, I'd rather have this trade: Rios and Alexei for Hanson and ???.

Here's an interesting article:

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1709446-assembling-the-ideal-package-for-the-pirates-to-secure-alex-rios-alexei-ramirez

Gammons Peter
07-19-2013, 10:43 PM
so many things out there now....

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN 25s
Confirmed that #Pirates prospect Alen Hanson getting pulled is merely coincidence. #WhiteSox #hugwatch #AlexRios
Followed by Daryl Van Schouwen and 3 others

Brian26
07-19-2013, 10:48 PM
Rios was pulled for Casper Wells in the top of the 7th. He's not injured and the game day thread says he was seen hugging teammates in the dugout.

I am watching the game on dvr...delayed a bit, bottom of the 6th right now. After the way Rios dogged it on that doubleplay groundout earlier, it sort of exemplifies his last four years here. Glad to see him go.

Brian26
07-19-2013, 10:55 PM
Twitter is blowing up indeed. Either to the Phillies or Pirates, it appears.

samurai_sox
07-19-2013, 11:01 PM
Nothing on MLB Trade Rumors yet, I've been checking that site far too often the last 2 weeks.

Tragg
07-19-2013, 11:06 PM
I am watching the game on dvr...delayed a bit, bottom of the 6th right now. After the way Rios dogged it on that doubleplay groundout earlier, it sort of exemplifies his last four years here. Glad to see him go.

He's dogged it a lot.
Tonight was NOT the night to pull him for dogging it. Hope that's not what happened.

dickallen15
07-19-2013, 11:11 PM
He's dogged it a lot.
Tonight was NOT the night to pull him for dogging it. Hope that's not what happened.

Why is it not the night? Do you thin the scouts in attendance broke their stopwatches and went to take a piss during his AB? Maybe sitting him down will get him to run harder the next 10 days and the Sox can rid themselves of this slacker.

ZombieRob
07-19-2013, 11:11 PM
He's dogged it a lot.
Tonight was NOT the night to pull him for dogging it. Hope that's not what happened.
I agree. Nice way to kill some value

ZombieRob
07-19-2013, 11:14 PM
Why is it not the night? Do you thin the scouts in attendance broke their stopwatches and went to take a piss during his AB? Maybe sitting him down will get him to run harder the next 10 days and the Sox can rid themselves of this slacker.
Where was Ventura and his balls in the first half of the season? Nowhere. So why do it now? The Sox need any bit of leverage they can get right now. Now if another team comes knocking, they are going to say" Well you did have to bench him so maybe he's not worth what your asking".

PalehosePlanet
07-19-2013, 11:18 PM
He's dogged it a lot.
Tonight was NOT the night to pull him for dogging it. Hope that's not what happened.

Ventura just confirmed that he benched him for not hustling.

Tragg
07-19-2013, 11:23 PM
Why is it not the night? Do you thin the scouts in attendance broke their stopwatches and went to take a piss during his AB? Maybe sitting him down will get him to run harder the next 10 days and the Sox can rid themselves of this slacker.
Because it just draws further attention to his weaknesses. The main goal now is getting the most we can out of these players and developing our young players.
Why now anyway? He's gotten away with dogging it since he's been on this team.
Ventura has no sense of organization.

Brian26
07-19-2013, 11:23 PM
Wow, so he did get benched for dogging it on the doubleplay that would have scored a run. And the Sox don't get Hansen.

Brian26
07-19-2013, 11:26 PM
Rios was pulled for Casper Wells in the top of the 7th. He's not injured and the game day thread says he was seen hugging teammates in the dugout.

What game day conversation did you see where it said he was hugging people?
Edit - nevermind, it was just someone quoting false Twitter crap.

samurai_sox
07-19-2013, 11:27 PM
Where was Ventura and his ballsin the first half of the season? Nowhere. So why do it now? The Sox need any bit of leverage they can get right now. Now if another team comes knocking, they are going to say" Well you did have to bench him so maybe he's not worth what your asking".

Yeah I don't see that happening, I think they would see it more as an act of frustration.

PalehosePlanet
07-19-2013, 11:28 PM
Because it just draws further attention to his weaknesses. The main goal now is getting the most we can out of these players and developing our young players.
Ventura has no sense of organization.

Not to mention that Konerko has flipped the bat in disgust and jogged towards first on grounders -- many bobbled -- about 60 times since the start of last year. Did Ventura bench him?

Noneck
07-19-2013, 11:33 PM
Not to mention that Konerko has flipped the bat in disgust and jogged towards first on grounders -- many bobbled -- about 60 times since the start of last year. Did Ventura bench him?


AJ walked to 1st on many a grounder hit up the drain pipe to the 2nd baseman throughout his Sox career and never was benched for it.

ZombieRob
07-19-2013, 11:37 PM
Not to mention that Konerko has flipped the bat in disgust and jogged towards first on grounders -- many bobbled -- about 60 times since the start of last year. Did Ventura bench him?
Konerko has been a pouty baby doing that since I can remember. But he gets a pass since he gave Jerry the ball.

ZombieRob
07-19-2013, 11:39 PM
AJ walked to 1st on many a grounder hit up the drain pipe to the 2nd baseman throughout his Sox career and never was benched for it.
Totally or pop up and fling that bat. This IMO is the whole problem with this team from top to bottom. no accountability. Ozzie I think tried to at first, but wasn't backed up on it and just never gave a **** after that like everyone else.

Brian26
07-19-2013, 11:40 PM
Not to mention that Konerko has flipped the bat in disgust and jogged towards first on grounders -- many bobbled -- about 60 times since the start of last year. Did Ventura bench him?

AJ walked to 1st on many a grounder hit up the drain pipe to the 2nd baseman throughout his Sox career and never was benched for it.

Konerko has been a pouty baby doing that since I can remember. But he gets a pass since he gave Jerry the ball.

AJ and Konerko have done that with the tying or lead run on third base and one out? Are you sure about that? If Rios hustles, the Sox score a run there. Konerko has flipped his bat on flyouts, and AJ was one of the smartest guys to ever play here. Different situations...

dickallen15
07-19-2013, 11:41 PM
Where was Ventura and his balls in the first half of the season? Nowhere. So why do it now? The Sox need any bit of leverage they can get right now. Now if another team comes knocking, they are going to say" Well you did have to bench him so maybe he's not worth what your asking".

Every team even thinking about Rios realized he dogged it. If his trade value is lowered, its not because he was benched, it was because he loafed. He missed one at bat. Do you really think that next AB was the one that was going to make a GM say he had to have Rios, and give up whatever it took to get him?

gosox41
07-19-2013, 11:43 PM
Ventura just confirmed that he benched him for not hustling.

If that is true then Ventura is a fool. What was Robin doing the whole first half while this team was terrible. Now, two weeks before the trade deadline he takes our most tradeable position player and decides to make an example out of him with all the scouts watching? Please tell me Robin isn't that dumb. Maybe the Sox are getting close to dealing Rios and this is the cover up in case it falls apart.

Do you believe in coincidences. Rios doesn't just and is yanked the same time as Hanson is?


Bob

dickallen15
07-19-2013, 11:43 PM
AJ and Konerko have done that with the tying or lead run on third base and one out? Are you sure about that? If Rios hustles, the Sox score a run there. Konerko has flipped his bat on flyouts, and AJ was one of the smartest guys to ever play here. Different situations...

Yes, Sox hitters haven't gone all that hard to first for many years, however, this particular game situation could not be ignored, especially since Ventura has sat a couple of guys recently, Tank included, for boneheaded baseball.

Noneck
07-19-2013, 11:51 PM
AJ and Konerko have done that with the tying or lead run on third base and one out? Are you sure about that? If Rios hustles, the Sox score a run there. Konerko has flipped his bat on flyouts, and AJ was one of the smartest guys to ever play here. Different situations...

I didnt watch the game so yes it is different. But what happened to Rios happens a lot when teams are in this situation. Some stay longer on the DL, some get in the buffet line twice, some stay out later, some take less batting practice, some watch less film etc. The Sox just havent been in this situation for awhile, it happens to all at one time or another.

Tragg
07-20-2013, 12:05 AM
Do you believe in coincidences. Rios doesn't just and is yanked the same time as Hanson is?


Bob
ON the other hand, Hanson is overpaying a good bit for Rios...Hanson is a top 50 prospect. So it sounds like coincidence.

The front office is probably to blame as well..they know they have an inexperienced amateur in Ventura....they should make some things clear to him.

soxfanreggie
07-20-2013, 12:07 AM
I didnt watch the game so yes it is different. But what happened to Rios happens a lot when teams are in this situation. Some stay longer on the DL, some get in the buffet line twice, some stay out later, some take less batting practice, some watch less film etc. The Sox just havent been in this situation for awhile, it happens to all at one time or another.

This is why I don't think getting benched will hurt him (if he isn't going to Pit) is that other teams know that it's a lot harder for Sox players and players for other teams like the Sox right know to play with the same tenacity as with a contender.

Noneck
07-20-2013, 12:15 AM
This is why I don't think getting benched will hurt him (if he isn't going to Pit) is that other teams know that it's a lot harder for Sox players and players for other teams like the Sox right know to play with the same tenacity as with a contender.

But just singling him out, may make other teams think this is just the head of the iceberg.

Brian26
07-20-2013, 12:23 AM
This is why I don't think getting benched will hurt him (if he isn't going to Pit) is that other teams know that it's a lot harder for Sox players and players for other teams like the Sox right know to play with the same tenacity as with a contender.

I don't think the benching hurts him any more because the book is already out on Rios. Most teams know what they're getting with him.

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 12:31 AM
AJ and Konerko have done that with the tying or lead run on third base and one out? Are you sure about that? If Rios hustles, the Sox score a run there. Konerko has flipped his bat on flyouts, and AJ was one of the smartest guys to ever play here. Different situations...
Even so. Does it really even matter what the situation. Man up. Back at you. What if they pop up and the fielder drops it, and they get thrown out at first because they were to busy pouting and throwing their bats and trotting to first?

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 12:33 AM
But just singling him out, may make other teams think this is just the head of the iceberg.
Exactly. If lack of hustle is the reason Ramirez should of been benched 20 times already this season.

soxfanreggie
07-20-2013, 12:33 AM
Even so. Does it really even matter what the situation. Man up. Back at you. What if they pop up and the fielder drops it, and they get thrown out at first because they were to busy pouting and throwing their bats and trotting to first?

One could argue there is a greater chance of them getting hurt on a play like that than an error. It's an argument, not saying which way is right.

Noneck
07-20-2013, 12:40 AM
Exactly. If lack of hustle is the reason Ramirez should of been benched 20 times already this season.


I wouldnt bench anyone these two weeks for this stuff. If I was manager, I would have told Schneider to go waddle out there and massage Rios calf. Cramps happen.

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 12:51 AM
One could argue there is a greater chance of them getting hurt on a play like that than an error. It's an argument, not saying which way is right.
It's an instinct every player should have. Run out the damn play. In Baseball anything can happen, you just never know. Dropped pop up, he's on first, could rattle the pitcher and start a rally all because of a hustle play.

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 12:52 AM
I wouldnt bench anyone these two weeks for this stuff. If I was manager, I would have told Schneider to go waddle out there and massage Rios calf. Cramps happen.
I agree right now. I'm just saying prior, their was no accountability on this team. Makes no sense to start now. Ventura lost this team in May

Brian26
07-20-2013, 01:02 AM
Even so. Does it really even matter what the situation. Man up. Back at you. What if they pop up and the fielder drops it, and they get thrown out at first because they were to busy pouting and throwing their bats and trotting to first?

The situation matters. If an outfielder drops a flyball, PK is still safe at first even if he trots there. A doubleplay ball with a runner at third means the batter needs to bust behind to first. I have never seen AJ or PK not bust in a situation like that. I cannot believe this is even being debated.

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 01:08 AM
The situation matters. If an outfielder drops a flyball, PK is still safe at first even if he trots there. A doubleplay ball with a runner at third means the batter needs to bust behind to first. I have never seen AJ or PK not bust in a situation like that. I cannot believe this is even being debated.
What if the infielder drops the ball and Pauly is thrown out at first because of no effort? There more specific. And it doesn't matter if a runners or or not. Run your ass to first. I don't care if your name is Paul Konerko or Joe DiMaggio. Hell, Fisk lambasted Sanders for not running a ball out. Why because he knows what is expected of a ball player. Hustle

Brian26
07-20-2013, 01:18 AM
What if the infielder drops the ball and Pauly is thrown out at first because of no effort? There more specific. And it doesn't matter if a runners or or not. Run your ass to first. I don't care if your name is Paul Konerko or Joe DiMaggio. Hell, Fisk lambasted Sanders for not running a ball out. Why because he knows what is expected of a ball player. Hustle

I am talking about a flyball to the outfield, for the third time. Keep changing it though. An infield popup with two outs and Konerko is still safe at first unless he falls down and breaks his leg ...and the runner still scores. Do you have reading comprehension problems? Or just anger management issues? "Man up". :rolling: LOL

CoopaLoop
07-20-2013, 01:22 AM
The problem with the benching is it's complete bull****.

Rios wasn't benched for lack of hustle, he was benched because his lack of hustle cost the White Sox a run. There is no Ventura hard stance on hustling, he just benched the guy because of the outcome.

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 01:37 AM
I am talking about a flyball to the outfield, for the third time. Keep changing it though. An infield popup with two outs and Konerko is still safe at first unless he falls down and breaks his leg ...and the runner still scores. Do you have reading comprehension problems? Or just anger management issues? "Man up". :rolling: LOL
You're not getting the argument. The argument simply was run out the damn ball. But your going on about some in game happening no one even cares about or doesn't matter because again you should always run out the ball. Seem to me you have fan boy issues and listen to Chris Rongey to much.

Tragg
07-20-2013, 03:28 AM
I wouldnt bench anyone these two weeks for this stuff. If I was manager, I would have told Schneider to go waddle out there and massage Rios calf. Cramps happen.

Indeed.

LITTLE NELL
07-20-2013, 06:12 AM
Rios benched for not hustling, he 's crying all the way to the bank.
The only way to hurt him is to fine him but how much can you fine him where it really hurts?

soxfanreggie
07-20-2013, 08:37 AM
Rios benched for not hustling, he 's crying all the way to the bank.
The only way to hurt him is to fine him but how much can you fine him where it really hurts?

He might get $500 or $1,000 in kangaroo court, but his pay probably nets him that much in simple interest every day or two.

SCCWS
07-20-2013, 09:18 AM
You're not getting the argument. The argument simply was run out the damn ball. But your going on about some in game happening no one even cares about or doesn't matter because again you should always run out the ball. Seem to me you have fan boy issues and listen to Chris Rongey to much.

Agree. From Little League you are taught to run hard until you are out. Game situations mean nothing. Every play has the potential to turn into an error for the defense.

CoopaLoop
07-20-2013, 09:50 AM
Agree. From Little League you are taught to run hard until you are out. Game situations mean nothing. Every play has the potential to turn into an error for the defense.

This isn't little league.

Everyone should pay close attention to hitters coming out of the box after routine grounders and popouts this weekend. Tell me if you don't count a handful of plays that happened to Rios in each game today and tomorrow.

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 09:56 AM
This isn't little league.

Everyone should pay close attention to hitters coming out of the box after routine grounders and popouts this weekend. Tell me if you don't count a handful of plays that happened to Rios in each game today and tomorrow.
No ones denying that. It sickens me. Even when other plays lollygag.Griffey JR. Was really guilty of it, but had star status so no one cared. I think most of us are wonder why Robin waited to do this halfway through through the season. Not only Rios, watch Ramirez a few times. he another Dog. He should of been benched and pulled 20 times already.

Zisk77
07-20-2013, 10:57 AM
I didn't realize the lack of hustle thread got merged with the trade rumor thread. Or is Lack of hustle the prospect we got back from the pirates from Rios?

blandman
07-20-2013, 11:00 AM
I didn't realize the lack of hustle thread got merged with the trade rumor thread. Or is Lack of hustle the prospect we got back from the pirates from Rios?

He wasn't traded. Rios was benched because Robin's an idiot who can't see the bigger picture.

ZombieRob
07-20-2013, 11:06 AM
He wasn't traded. Rios was benched because Robin's an idiot who can't see the bigger picture.
Or why wait till now when the season is half over to show some balls

Brian26
07-20-2013, 11:18 AM
You're not getting the argument. The argument simply was run out the damn ball. But your going on about some in game happening no one even cares about or doesn't matter because again you should always run out the ball. Seem to me you have fan boy issues and listen to Chris Rongey to much.

There is no argument. Everyone on the field should hustle. However, the opinion that AJ and Konerko didn't/don't hustle is fairly absurd and a meatball opinion.

The classic Konerko backflip on a flyout is inconsequential because he's going to make it to first safely whether he trots or runs at full speed, if the outfielder drops it. Conversely, if he runs at fullspeed to first, he's not fast enough naturally to make it to second base if the outfielder drops it. There's no tangiible argument here that Konerko's trotting to first on a flyout hurts the team.

Last night, there was a tangible illustration that Rios' lack of hustle with the go-ahead run on third base cost the team. He has to know the situation. Baseball is all about knowing the situation at any given time (how many outs there are, where the outfielders are positioned, if the infielder is playing behind the runner, etc).

Trying to equate what Rios did last night (or failed to do) and Konerko's batflip on a flyout is entirely wasted effort at best and meatball fandom at worst.

soltrain21
07-20-2013, 11:45 AM
He wasn't traded. Rios was benched because Robin's an idiot who can't see the bigger picture.

Wow. I actually agree with you! What a stupid time to pick to "prove a point" with Alex Rios.

SCCWS
07-20-2013, 11:49 AM
This isn't little league.

Everyone should pay close attention to hitters coming out of the box after routine grounders and popouts this weekend. Tell me if you don't count a handful of plays that happened to Rios in each game today and tomorrow.

Some plays you see are little league. I watched a few innings of Boston and New York last night. Two straight innings a Yankee infielder, not Lilly, started running off the field after the 2nd out.

A. Cavatica
07-20-2013, 12:24 PM
Some plays you see are little league. I watched a few innings of Boston and New York last night. Two straight innings a Yankee infielder, not Lilly, started running off the field after the 2nd out.

Ladies and gentlemen, your future Chicago White Sox!

#1swisher
07-20-2013, 01:03 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN) 1h (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/358609768002240512)

Boston has a scout at the CWS game today, presumably to watch Peavy and follow up on some of the background work they have done.

Tragg
07-20-2013, 02:44 PM
Well, this is a big day for the organization.
Peavy should be worth a lot...he's a very good pitcher with a reasonable contract and signed to another year.

SCCWS
07-20-2013, 03:01 PM
Well, this is a big day for the organization.
Peavy should be worth a lot...he's a very good pitcher with a reasonable contract and signed to another year.

I would agree. But listening to Boston sports radio yesterday, the hosts seem to think Boston will not be giving up top prospects but rather plenty of cash and second tier prospects. Boston lost their righthanded setup yesterday so they need another reliever. As I posted elsewhere, maybe packaging Peavy, Rios and a reliever might get them to give up one of their 4-5 untouchable position prospects in a package of prospects.