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BuehrleACE56
08-03-2002, 01:36 AM
i didn't get to see or hear this thrilling 12-inning drama fest tonight because i was at work. where my game is set up gets crap radio reception. but at least we won. looking at the box score on whitesox.com i noticed that royce clayton is now batting .244 and Frank Thomas is batting .243 Choice caught up! wow that is sad. a combination of a season-long thomas slump and a recent royce hot streak are to blame, but still! i just found it rather humerous for not only the choice haters, but for all of us. maybe we could DH choice and play manos full time at SS? ooh the possibilities.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by BuehrleACE56
i didn't get to see or hear this thrilling 12-inning drama fest tonight because i was at work. where my game is set up gets crap radio reception. but at least we won. looking at the box score on whitesox.com i noticed that royce clayton is now batting .244 and Frank Thomas is batting .243 Choice caught up! wow that is sad. a combination of a season-long thomas slump and a recent royce hot streak are to blame, but still! i just found it rather humerous for not only the choice haters, but for all of us. maybe we could DH choice and play manos full time at SS? ooh the possibilities.

Roycie almost pulled ahead of Skirt for a while there last month. Looks like Roycie is making another run on the Skirt now though.

doublem23
08-03-2002, 01:50 AM
Isn't it nice of Clayton to start hitting now that we're completely out of it?

MrX
08-03-2002, 01:59 AM
All of Clayton's hits are meaningless for the most part. He had a chance to put them ahead in the 9th I believe with Frank on 3rd and somebody else on 1st with one out and struck out swinging.


:hitless

You guys expect me to hit in the clutch now to. What am I a machine. Your lucky I get those bloop singles when no one is on with 2 outs.

Nellie_Fox
08-03-2002, 02:11 AM
Man, do I hate the total lack of respect indicated by calling Frank "The Big Skirt." This guy is the best hitter the Sox have had in my lifetime. He put up huge numbers year after year.

You think he is done? Fine. That's your right. But mocking and ridiculing him? That stinks out loud.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Man, do I hate the total lack of respect indicated by calling Frank "The Big Skirt." This guy is the best hitter the Sox have had in my lifetime. He put up huge numbers year after year.

You think he is done? Fine. That's your right. But mocking and ridiculing him? That stinks out loud.


He does deserve it. By all accounts he is an arrogant jackass in the clubhouse & with the fans. No sympathy for him. We've tolerated his arrogance, demands for more money & his total dissappearing act during the playoffs 2 years ago. Now that he is stinking up the place this season I couldn't care less about him.

CRY ME A RIVER SKIRT!!!

FarWestChicago
08-03-2002, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Man, do I hate the total lack of respect indicated by calling Frank "The Big Skirt." This guy is the best hitter the Sox have had in my lifetime. He put up huge numbers year after year.

You think he is done? Fine. That's your right. But mocking and ridiculing him? That stinks out loud. You are 100% correct, Nellie.

doublem23
08-03-2002, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
You think he is done? Fine. That's your right. But mocking and ridiculing him? That stinks out loud.

I do sometimes wonder how much other players pay attention to this situation. I'm sure most of them realize how good Frank is compared to the rest of the stars White Sox history, but still see him under constant ridicule from the Chicago media and Chicago fans.

I wonder how much that scares people away from coming to play for the Sox.

Just a thought.

Nellie_Fox
08-03-2002, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND
He does deserve it. By all accounts he is an arrogant jackass in the clubhouse & with the fans.By all accounts, so was Ted Williams.
No sympathy for him. We've tolerated his arrogance, demands for more money & his total dissappearing act during the playoffs 2 years ago. Now that he is stinking up the place this season I couldn't care less about him.

CRY ME A RIVER SKIRT!!! Frank wasn't the only one who did a "disappearing act" in the 2000 playoffs. Please point out the Sox offensive player who had a good playoffs. And, as doub points out, he had a fine playoffs in '93.

doublem23
08-03-2002, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
By all accounts, so was Ted Williams.
Frank wasn't the only one who did a "disappearing act" in the 2000 playoffs. Please point out the Sox offensive player who had a good playoffs. And, as doub points out, he had a fine playoffs in '93.

Yeah, I erased that first post because I originally misread NUKE's post... but the fact remains... .353, 10 BB, 2 R, 1 HR, 3 RBI...

That's pretty damn good for a 6 game set.

voodoochile
08-03-2002, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND



He does deserve it. By all accounts he is an arrogant jackass in the clubhouse & with the fans. No sympathy for him. We've tolerated his arrogance, demands for more money & his total dissappearing act during the playoffs 2 years ago. Now that he is stinking up the place this season I couldn't care less about him.

Prove it... You are interpreting stuff you read in the newspaper which isn't based on anything an actual player says, but merely on reporter innuendo. Anyone got any solid info that Frank isn't liked in the clubhouse? Anyone got any solid proof that Frank demanded MORE money? Anyone got any proof that Frank is rude or mean to fans? Anyone remember his performance in the 1993 playoffs? Anyone remember ANY hitter on the team performing in the 2000 playoffs? Should we start hating Magglio also? Half-assed Sox fans making stuff up to make themselves feel better for tearing down a man who was THE MAN on the Sox for a long time and is arguably the best right handed hitter the game has ever seen. Go ahead, quote and read your flubbie blue rag and your moronotti columns, it won't make you right, but it will make you look stupid...

Nellie_Fox
08-03-2002, 04:13 AM
Yeehaw Voodoo, preach it.

soxtalker
08-03-2002, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


I do sometimes wonder how much other players pay attention to this situation. I'm sure most of them realize how good Frank is compared to the rest of the stars White Sox history, but still see him under constant ridicule from the Chicago media and Chicago fans.

I wonder how much that scares people away from coming to play for the Sox.

Just a thought.

This may be going off on a bit of a tangent, but I doubt that this scares players away from the Sox. Take the contrast of either of the NY teams. The media and fans in NYC are far less forgiving of failure on their teams.

Tragg
08-03-2002, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Man, do I hate the total lack of respect indicated by calling Frank "The Big Skirt." This guy is the best hitter the Sox have had in my lifetime. He put up huge numbers year after year.

You think he is done? Fine. That's your right. But mocking and ridiculing him? That stinks out loud.

I agree with Nellie

mrwag
08-03-2002, 09:35 AM
Anyone who calls Frank "the Big skirt" obviously is not a Sox fan, or was oblivious to the 1990s and what Frank accomplished. That kind of trash talk should be thrown out with the trash, along with the baseball wanna-be's on the north side.

And let's not forget the Royce was up 3 times with runners in scoring position Friday night and failed miserably each time. If we had a manager with half a brain, Royce get's yanked in the 9th for someone off the bench. That was not an example of winning baseball, which is why it takes extra innings to beat teams like Tampa Bay. What a disgrace.

Iguana775
08-03-2002, 11:20 AM
i agree with all the pro-HURT comments.

SI1020
08-03-2002, 11:38 AM
Ok I come into this argument late in the game but let me throw my two cents in. First of all, we never and I mean never had a hitter like Frank in our history. A guy that combined power, run production, and high average. I became a White Sox fan in the middle of the go go era. I remember my dad and other adult Sox fans telling me over and over that the one thing the Sox lacked was the big stick like a Mays, Aaron, or Mantle. If we had a guy like Frank Thomas in the lineup in that era it's safe to say the the Sox would have won pennants in 1955,1964, and 1967. 1963 and 1965 are possibilities and 1957 would be a long shot possibility. This lack of a big gun in the lineup caused Veeck to acquire Ted Kluszewski in Sept of 1959 and to trade most of our young prospects after the WS. Frank is special and should be given a little slack before people start turning on him. I also feel that due to his introspective nature and his inablity to handle the manipulations of some members of the media he comes off worse than he really is. Frank then reacts sourly to the controversy which further compounds the problem. I would be sad to see him go. As far as the 2000 playoffs go almost the whole team stunk, including our manager who was completely outclassed by Lou Piniella.

oldcomiskey
08-03-2002, 12:10 PM
when roycehas the RBIs that Frank has than Ill say we should keep Clayton--and you think Thomas is worse in the clubhouse than Royce---go to the north side and continue sniffing blue rockk---idiots

TheBigHurt
08-03-2002, 12:30 PM
Manos is batting 235 so ha!!! :D:

TheBigHurt
08-03-2002, 12:35 PM
i dont think anyone would rather have choice playing dh and manos at short.
id rather have big Frank and his 17 hrs and 64 rbi's then choice 6 homers and 33 rbi's and his 1 point higer ba.

RKMeibalane
08-03-2002, 02:21 PM
When The Choice wins an MVP, maybe the Sox can look to get rid of Frank. However, the likelyhood of Royce Clayton doing anything on that scale is virtually nonexistent.

Frank Thomas was, for several years, the best hitter in baseball. He was so highly respected for his offensive prowess that many considered him the best player in baseball, even though he isn't much of a first baseman. I don't think it's right to be trashing him when he is clearly doing his best out there. Nobody feels worse about the way this season is going than Frank Thomas. Nobody.

Cubs fans think Thomas is lazy because that is the impression most of the sports writers in Chicago have of him. Other Frank-haters don't realize that the primary job of someone like Jay Mariotti is to write stories and sell papers. If that means he says something negative about another person, so be it. I think people need to use common sense when considering the career of Frank Thomas. No one in baseball, with the exception of men like Ruth and Williams, has put up the kinds of offensive numbers that Thomas has. I think people need to remember that before they criticize him.

Also, there is the problem with fans referring to Frank as the "Big Skirt." This is extremely dissapointing. Not only are Frank-haters criticizing the most marketable player the Sox have, but they are validating Flub-fan propaganda- how sickening.

In closing, I think people should remember that Frank missed most of last season. Everyone here had to know that it would take time for him to get back to putting up big numbers. Recently, he has shown some signs of coming around. I hope he continues to improve over these final two months as the Sox begin to prepare for 2003.

cornball
08-03-2002, 03:32 PM
No doubt Frank is the best hitter in Sox history, however he is does deserve criticism...not mocking or redicule....Criticism for the present not the past.

Especially if this team goes to a 45MM payroll and Frank and his current lousy attitude and unlike FT numbers....YES he should get blasted....for he would be over 20% of the payroll..currently about 17% of the payroll.....I know it is sad when you have to talk money....but this is what Sox brass always do to us.....

Kilroy
08-03-2002, 05:11 PM
As usual Nellie, I'm right there with you. Any of you who want to call Frank the Big Skirt should just turn in your Sox colors and take the short bus to the special-ed farm on Addison. Sure, we're all disappointed w/ Thomas' performance this season, but turning on him like a bunch of Benedict Arnolds shows your true colors. You're only a fan when there's joy in Mudville. It's one thing to be critical. Its another thing to take up sides with Cub fans idiots like Mariotti...

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
As usual Nellie, I'm right there with you. Any of you who want to call Frank the Big Skirt should just turn in your Sox colors and take the short bus to the special-ed farm on Addison. Sure, we're all disappointed w/ Thomas' performance this season, but turning on him like a bunch of Benedict Arnolds shows your true colors. You're only a fan when there's joy in Mudville. It's one thing to be critical. Its another thing to take up sides with Cub fans idiots like Mariotti...

That is total crap! You would have us believe that anyone who criticizes anyone on the team is not a true fan. BULL****! I have been and always will be a Sox fan, but when someone on the team, especially someone with a fat contract like Skirt, is having a bad year & hurting the team is so doing, they're gonna hear it from me & those like us.

Kilroy
08-03-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


That is total crap! You would have us believe that anyone who criticizes anyone on the team is not a true fan. BULL****! I have been and always will be a Sox fan, but when someone on the team, especially someone with a fat contract like Skirt, is having a bad year & hurting the team is so doing, they're gonna hear it from me & those like us.

Like I said, being critical is one thing. Its fine. We expect more from Hurt, and can get on his case, even boo. But calling him Big Skirt and the like is crossing the line. You are joing in the chorus with the Cub fans and the Moron. So turn in your membership card. You lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

MisterB
08-03-2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
This may be going off on a bit of a tangent, but I doubt that this scares players away from the Sox. Take the contrast of either of the NY teams. The media and fans in NYC are far less forgiving of failure on their teams.

The difference is the NY fans give enthusiastic support to players when they do well. Even when Frank was having success of HOF proportions, there were complaints - he doesn't run the bases well, he can't throw the ball, he takes too many walks, he should be a DH, etc., etc.. And when he finally had a comparatively 'bad' season - the full fledged 'Frank sucks, trade him' talk started. Currently Maggs and Paulie are doing well, but what do they have to look forward to? If Maggs bats under .300 for a season, how long before "O-stink-O Magglio" starts flying from peoples' lips? Maybe it's because we Sox fans are so expectant of failure that we refuse to enjoy any kind of success from our players or team, I don't know. But does any player want to go somewhere where he'll be ripped by the fans and media no matter how well he does? Doesn't sound very enticing to me...

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


Like I said, being critical is one thing. Its fine. We expect more from Hurt, and can get on his case, even boo. But calling him Big Skirt and the like is crossing the line. You are joing in the chorus with the Cub fans and the Moron. So turn in your membership card. You lie down with dogs, you get fleas.


Exactly where is this imaginary line of yours and where is all that sobbing & cub fan accusations for the people who slam Royce. I hate Clayton as much as anyone, but you are a hypocrite.

WinningUgly!
08-03-2002, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


That is total crap! You would have us believe that anyone who criticizes anyone on the team is not a true fan. BULL****! I have been and always will be a Sox fan, but when someone on the team, especially someone with a fat contract like Skirt, is having a bad year & hurting the team is so doing, they're gonna hear it from me & those like us.


I have no problem with people saying Frank sucks now, or that he's a crybaby, washed up, overpaid, clubhouse cancer, etc. Hearing him called the "Big Skirt" doesn't bother me either...when it comes from the mouths of sCrUB fans. That's their mentality, it's what I'd expect from them. The name origionated back in the early 90's when Thomas was putting up huge numbers & being compared to the all time greats of the game. The brilliant, drunken northsiders pooled thier few remaining brain cells together & came up with Big Skirt...pure genius. When a Sox fan refers to Thomas as "Big Skirt", they are just lowering themselves to that level, so let 'em. Might as well pump your fist in the air and yell "grab some bench" when the guy strikes out while your at it.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!



I have no problem with people saying Frank sucks now, or that he's a crybaby, washed up, overpaid, clubhouse cancer, etc. Hearing him called the "Big Skirt" doesn't bother me either...when it comes from the mouths of sCrUB fans. That's their mentality, it's what I'd expect from them. The name origionated back in the early 90's when Thomas was putting up huge numbers & being compared to the all time greats of the game. The brilliant, drunken northsiders pooled thier few remaining brain cells together & came up with Big Skirt...pure genius. When a Sox fan refers to Thomas as "Big Skirt", they are just lowering themselves to that level, so let 'em. Might as well pump your fist in the air and yell "grab some bench" when the guy strikes out while your at it.

You people misunderstand me. I don't hate Thomas. I want him to succeed because if we're going to be a winning team we need his bat. He sucks ass this year, however, and because of it he's gonna get criticized. It's like I told Kilroy, you people have no problem with everyone slamming Roycie, but Thomas has sainthood I guess. Sure he has been a great hitter for this team, but I prefer to slam bad players equally.

Kilroy
08-03-2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND



Exactly where is this imaginary line of yours and where is all that sobbing & cub fan accusations for the people who slam Royce. I hate Clayton as much as anyone, but you are a hypocrite.

I don't know quite when you got here, but the Royce thing has been hashed and re-hashed to death. There are Royce haters and supporters, and both sides agree to disagree. Basically, people try not to talk about it anymore. That's why the only talk about Royce around here this year is just hate. No one really wants to re-hash the same crap over and over again. So you can take your hypocrite and cram it.

I find nothing more disgusting than a so called fan screaming about how someone sucks, trade them, cut them, whatever, and then when that player does something good, they cheer that player. Those are the real hypocrites, and I bet you'd be counted among them.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


I don't know quite when you got here, but the Royce thing has been hashed and re-hashed to death. There are Royce haters and supporters, and both sides agree to disagree. Basically, people try not to talk about it anymore. That's why the only talk about Royce around here this year is just hate. No one really wants to re-hash the same crap over and over again. So you can take your hypocrite and cram it.

I've been here all season & all of last season and been a Sox fan since I was 6 and actually understood what the hell baseball was.
I never liked Clayton and I never will. The reasons for that are too obvious to bother repeating.

[/B][/QUOTE]I find nothing more disgusting than a so called fan screaming about how someone sucks, trade them, cut them, whatever, and then when that player does something good, they cheer that player. Those are the real hypocrites, and I bet you'd be counted among them. [/B][/QUOTE]

Since you ignored my point, let me repeat it. When a player is hurting the team he is going to get criticized. Just because he is Frank Thomas doesn't mean he's above criticism. A real fan isin't afraid to make criticism when someone sucks.

By the way. Unwillingness to critize poor play is a very well known trait of the Scrub fans that you accuse me of being like.

WinningUgly!
08-03-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


You people misunderstand me. I don't hate Thomas. I want him to succeed because if we're going to be a winning team we need his bat. He sucks ass this year, however, and because of it he's gonna get criticized. It's like I told Kilroy, you people have no problem with everyone slamming Roycie, but Thomas has sainthood I guess. Sure he has been a great hitter for this team, but I prefer to slam bad players equally.

Thomas has done enough in a White Sox uniform over the years to be cut some slack. Clayton has sucked from the day he joined the Sox--not to mention the 10 years before he got here. Comparing Thomas to Clayton is like comparing ice cream to horse manure. I probably slam Clayton as much as anybody, but I still root like hell for the guy to get a hit every time he steps into the box.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


I probably slam Clayton as much as anybody, but I still root like hell for the guy to get a hit every time he steps into the box.

Same here. I don't want anyone to fail, but when they do I'm going to criticize & those who read my posts know that I don't pull many punches.

Kilroy
08-03-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

Since you ignored my point, let me repeat it. When a player is hurting the team he is going to get criticized. Just because he is Frank Thomas doesn't mean he's above criticism. A real fan isin't afraid to make criticism when someone sucks.

By the way. Unwillingness to critize poor play is a very well known trait of the Scrub fans that you accuse me of being like.

Ummm, by the way, since you ignored my point, let me repeat it. There's such a thing as being critical, and there's such a thing as being insulting. Are you saying you lack the brain power to be critical of Thomas w/out using the words "big skirt"?? That would be an insult and it has nothing to do with criticizing his poor play. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just didn't know the difference between the two.

Saying someone is playing terrible, needs to get his act together, head out of his ass, is hurting the team, all those comments are "being critical". Saying someone is a fat, overpaid, crybaby or calling them names is just spewing insults. You get what I'm talking about yet? Be critical all you want. But whats the point of being insulting to our players?

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-03-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


Ummm, by the way, since you ignored my point, let me repeat it. There's such a thing as being critical, and there's such a thing as being insulting. Are you saying you lack the brain power to be critical of Thomas w/out using the words "big skirt"?? That would be an insult and it has nothing to do with criticizing his poor play. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just didn't know the difference between the two.

Saying someone is playing terrible, needs to get his act together, head out of his ass, is hurting the team, all those comments are "being critical". Saying someone is a fat, overpaid, crybaby or calling them names is just spewing insults.

Overpaid: Yes. For the level of play he is at this season he is overpaid.

Fat: I don't recall anyone really trying to say he was fat & he's not, just big.

Crybaby: ABSOLUTELY! Frank is a notorious crybaby. Ask anyone who has ever played with him and they will tell you the same thing. I think it was Ventura who let it all hang out about Thomas in an article or interview (I can't remember which).

Speaking the truth about someone is not insulting him.

voodoochile
08-04-2002, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Same here. I don't want anyone to fail, but when they do I'm going to criticize & those who read my posts know that I don't pull many punches.

There is a fine line between criticism and name calling (actually, not so fine). You crossed it when you decided to start quoting Moronotti and his blue clad brethren. What purpose does the name calling serve when it comes to one of the all time greats? Can you imagine someone calling Mickey Mantle "Mouse Boy" or something when he had a bad time of it while coming off of major surgery? You still are not giving Frank any slack for still being in recovery from major career threatening injury. That in and of itself says as much or as little about your oppinion as needs to be known. You have distorted the facts to suit your needs. You have flat lied. You have refused to admit there is any possible reason for Frank to be having an off year other than the fact you just don't seem to like the man.

Guess I'm done reading your posts on the topic. You don't have much to say and personally, I no longer believe you are a Sox fan...

LongDistanceFan
08-04-2002, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


There is a fine line between criticism and name calling (actually, not so fine). You crossed it when you decided to start quoting Moronotti and his blue clad brethren. What purpose does the name calling serve when it comes to one of the all time greats? Can you imagine someone calling Mickey Mantle "Mouse Boy" or something when he had a bad time of it while coming off of major surgery? You still are not giving Frank any slack for still being in recovery from major career threatening injury. That in and of itself says as much or as little about your oppinion as needs to be known. You have distorted the facts to suit your needs. You have flat lied. You have refused to admit there is any possible reason for Frank to be having an off year other than the fact you just don't seem to like the man.

Guess I'm done reading your posts on the topic. You don't have much to say and personally, I no longer believe you are a Sox fan...


brethren... ummmm an interesting word there.

Daver
08-04-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile




Guess I'm done reading your posts on the topic. You don't have much to say and personally, I no longer believe you are a Sox fan...

Preach on Voodoo,the pukester failed to make him see this point,maybe you can .

Dadawg_77
08-04-2002, 01:18 AM
Nuke, I am not going to call you a cubs fan or anything of the sort. But Frank Thomas is our Willie Mays, and at this point Frank belongs on the Mets. But calling him the Big Skirt, only reaffirms the trash that scubs fans and the like spew and that is grave offense to some in these pro sox parts. You can't compare Clayton ripping to Frank ripping because Royce has sucks at major league baseball since day one, while Frank has put up a great history and the Sox have had their most successful run since 1910's with him at the helm. Frank has earned our respect as fans for what he has brought to our beloved team. While he maybe falling from grace, there is no need to jump on him with the rhetoric of the enemy.

DVG
08-04-2002, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Nuke, I am not going to call you a cubs fan or anything of the sort. But Frank Thomas is our Willie Mays, and at this point Frank belongs on the Mets. But calling him the Big Skirt, only reaffirms the trash that scubs fans and the like spew and that is grave offense to some in these pro sox parts. You can't compare Clayton ripping to Frank ripping because Royce has sucks at major league baseball since day one, while Frank has put up a great history and the Sox have had their most successful run since 1910's with him at the helm. Frank has earned our respect as fans for what he has brought to our beloved team. While he maybe falling from grace, there is no need to jump on him with the rhetoric of the enemy.


Amen. Preach it, brother. Can I get a witness?

bc2k
08-04-2002, 02:03 AM
In every Frank Thomas thread, someone defends his poor play by saying he is just getting over a career threatening injury. At what point does this excuse expire? At what time will Frank's play be a product of his talent and not of his injury.

If he hits .260 in 2003 is that still because of his injury? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just wondering what the Frank fans think is enough time for Frank to be at 100%.

LongDistanceFan
08-04-2002, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
In every Frank Thomas thread, someone defends his poor play by saying he is just getting over a career threatening injury. At what point does this excuse expire? At what time will Frank's play be a product of his talent and not of his injury.

If he hits .260 in 2003 is that still because of his injury? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just wondering what the Frank fans think is enough time for Frank to be at 100%.

i would say that in 2003, if he continues to do the same, then its time to tell him to retire. however, if he contributes, let say 260, 25 hrs and 80+ rbi's. what do you say about that.

Nellie_Fox
08-04-2002, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND
Fat: I don't recall anyone really trying to say he was fat & he's not, just big.bc2k has. Repeatedly.

doublem23
08-04-2002, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by bc2k

If he hits .260 in 2003 is that still because of his injury? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just wondering what the Frank fans think is enough time for Frank to be at 100%.

Mo Vaughn, a bona fide star, says missing a year of pro ball is like missing 10. It's VERY, VERY hard to come back. Hitting a little round ball with a little round stick is NOT like riding a bike.

voodoochile
08-04-2002, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
In every Frank Thomas thread, someone defends his poor play by saying he is just getting over a career threatening injury. At what point does this excuse expire? At what time will Frank's play be a product of his talent and not of his injury.

If he hits .260 in 2003 is that still because of his injury? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just wondering what the Frank fans think is enough time for Frank to be at 100%.

I for one want to see how he does next year. I fully expect him to play much better next year. Maybe I am wrong, but honestly look at Mo Vaughn's stats. .253, 17, 53. Look familiar? Is he through also? By all accounts this injury takes at least 2 years to fully recover from. Up until Mo had the surgery last year, it was considered a career threatening injury and still is as the surgical technique is not refined yet (at least as I understand it). It is a rare injury and no one can predict how Frank will respond down the road. Maybe he comes back strong, maybe he never performs at MVP levels again, but at least some of the blame HAS to belong to the injury, IMO.

I have a question for all of the "Frank haters" in return...

Have none of you witnessed him wincing after some of his swings this year? I saw it several times this year earlier, though I admit, I am not watching nearly as much as I did earlier in the year...

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-04-2002, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
bc2k has. Repeatedly.

Musta missed that. I don't think he's fat. :D:

Jerry_Manuel
08-04-2002, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I for one want to see how he does next year. I fully expect him to play much better next year. Maybe I am wrong, but honestly look at Mo Vaughn's stats. .253, 17, 53. Look familiar? Is he through also? By all accounts this injury takes at least 2 years to fully recover from.

Thomas' swing is the problem. I think if he would work with Hriniak he would return to form. Vaughn has a odd looking swing, but you never really see him changing it.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-04-2002, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I for one want to see how he does next year. I fully expect him to play much better next year. Maybe I am wrong, but honestly look at Mo Vaughn's stats. .253, 17, 53. Look familiar? Is he through also? By all accounts this injury takes at least 2 years to fully recover from. Up until Mo had the surgery last year, it was considered a career threatening injury and still is as the surgical technique is not refined yet (at least as I understand it). It is a rare injury and no one can predict how Frank will respond down the road. Maybe he comes back strong, maybe he never performs at MVP levels again, but at least some of the blame HAS to belong to the injury, IMO.

I have a question for all of the "Frank haters" in return...

Have none of you witnessed him wincing after some of his swings this year? I saw it several times this year earlier, though I admit, I am not watching nearly as much as I did earlier in the year...

Not a frank hater (LOL) but I have noticed , and so have announcers for the other teams, that Frank has been leaning back as he swings instead of leaning forward and into the pitch.

Kilroy
08-04-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Not a frank hater (LOL) but I have noticed , and so have announcers for the other teams, that Frank has been leaning back as he swings instead of leaning forward and into the pitch.

Well, I have heard Thomas say that his mechanics are ****ed up and that he's working on getting things right. If he's standing at the plate thinking about mechanics, he's not going to do well. hitting is reactionary. Its hard enuf to try and guage speed and location in the time it takes for the ball to travel 60 feet. If you're also thinking about making your body do the right things, you're dead...

bc2k
08-04-2002, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


i would say that in 2003, if he continues to do the same, then its time to tell him to retire. however, if he contributes, let say 260, 25 hrs and 80+ rbi's. what do you say about that.

I'd say thats still underachieving and he wouldn't win back many fans with those numbers.

Why pay Thomas 10 million for numbers that Carlos Lee could put up for about 4 million. Thats just bad business.

And Nellie is right; I've called Thomas obese many times.

alohafri
08-04-2002, 09:44 PM
I, for one, am sick and tired of this no slide, crybaby freak. I have been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt due to his injury last year and lengthy recovery time, but not sliding on a close play at the plate for the second time, costing us another run. He has to go! Take your bats and go, you big banana! Let someone who wants to play, hit in the DH spot.