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View Full Version : *Official* 6-23 Alexei wins Pick to Choke; KC 7 SOX 6 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
06-23-2013, 04:34 PM
How many more stupid errors must we endure?

We've surrendered 31 unearned runs so far. 30 all of last season.

Frater Perdurabo
06-23-2013, 04:36 PM
Maybe, just maybe, Dunn is producing just enough to convince a team lacking LH power to be willing to take on his salary for a bucket of used baseballs.

LITTLE NELL
06-23-2013, 04:36 PM
It's time to trade Alexei.

Jurr
06-23-2013, 04:38 PM
It's time to trade Alexei.

Good luck finding anything more than a fungo for him.
What a way to lose a ball game. I could imagine Hawk's silence on that call.

Frater Perdurabo
06-23-2013, 04:38 PM
It's time to trade Alexei.

Why would anyone want a shortstop who won't field the position? Send him back to Cuba.

I don't care if he hits .150, give me Carlos Sanchez with his great glove.

Soxman219
06-23-2013, 04:38 PM
I didn't watch this game either.

harwar
06-23-2013, 04:38 PM
I was having a really good day, until that 8th inning rolled around .. that's what i get for expecting something positive to happen .. guess i'll just slide back into expecting them to find a way to lose every damn game..

Jurr
06-23-2013, 04:40 PM
I was having a really good day, until that 8th inning rolled around .. that's what i get for expecting something positive to happen .. guess i'll just slide back into expecting them to find a way to lose every damn game..

With a team as fragile as this one, a loss like this should easily precede a monumental run of losses.

nsolo
06-23-2013, 04:40 PM
Hey, we won the series, but should of swept. Thanks Alexi for another example of how to make millions of dollars while having your head up your arse. Flashy great plays? No probemo. Routine plays in critical situations? No can do.

TaylorStSox
06-23-2013, 04:41 PM
Why would anyone want a shortstop who won't field the position? Send him back to Cuba.

I don't care if he hits .150, give me Carlos Sanchez with his great glove.

Great glove? Lol. Where did you hear that?

nsolo
06-23-2013, 04:42 PM
Great glove? Lol. Where did you hear that?

Maybe he meant in comparison.

TaylorStSox
06-23-2013, 04:44 PM
Maybe he meant in comparison.

Ramirez has had a really inconsistent year, but he's a better fielder than Sanchez will ever be.

Brian26
06-23-2013, 04:44 PM
Good luck finding anything more than a fungo for him.
What a way to lose a ball game. I could imagine Hawk's silence on that call.

It felt like he threw something in the booth. I'm with him 100%. You could see that error coming from a mile away.

Brian26
06-23-2013, 04:48 PM
What is lost is Gordon's clutch hit driving in two runs. Beckham's crouch at the plate makes him look as good at the plate since maybe his rookie year. He seems to have finally figured it out.

shingo10
06-23-2013, 04:49 PM
We suffer through bad baseball game after game and nothing being done to show that anyone in control of this organization is awake.

Foulke You
06-23-2013, 04:50 PM
It was a lot easier dealing with Alexei's mental mistakes when he was hitting 20HRs and 80RBI. Now, he is a right handed Juan Pierre with a knack for terrible errors. Jesse makes a good pitch to preserve the lead that goes right thru the wickets and Sox fans are left to stare at Alexei's vacant expression once again.

Dick Allen
06-23-2013, 04:52 PM
The idea of a sweep was too much for Alexei to bear. Sit his ugly ass down for a couple of weeks.

Crestani
06-23-2013, 04:55 PM
The idea of a sweep was too much for Alexei to bear. Sit his ugly ass down for a couple of weeks.


I would love to wipe that smiley smirk off his face every time he ****s up...!!!

October26
06-23-2013, 04:56 PM
Why would anyone want a shortstop who won't field the position? Send him back to Cuba.

I don't care if he hits .150, give me Carlos Sanchez with his great glove.

Very disappointing loss.

Jesse Crain's scoreless inning streak is over.

And I get that you/we are disgusted that Alexei's error cost the Sox this game but as a Cuban-American, this part of your post is not funny to me.

BainesHOF
06-23-2013, 04:56 PM
Ramirez was lackadaisical on a previous play late in the game. This guy never learns and, in fact, has regressed. As a player, he's a loser. We need to pick up a place-holding shortstop and dump Ramirez as soon as possible. You can't tolerate his ongoing silliness.

De Aza didn't run after hitting a ball down the left-field line that was barely foul and would have been a double or triple.

It's comical that Beckham continues to bat eighth.

nsolo
06-23-2013, 04:57 PM
I was pretty honked off that we threw away the game. But in retrospect, I dreaded going into KC. Before the start of this series, I was sure we were going to get swept. We ended up winning the series that ended on a terrible note.

What did Farmer have to say on the radio?

Aesero
06-23-2013, 05:01 PM
Ahh now there's the 2013 Sox we've all come to know and love. I knew dreaming of a sweep was too much to ask.

October26
06-23-2013, 05:02 PM
I was pretty honked off that we threw away the game. But in retrospect, I dreaded going into KC. Before the start of this series, I was sure we were going to get swept. We ended up winning the series that ended on a terrible note.

What did Farmer have to say on the radio?


Absolutely, nothing. Apparently, Farmer was coughing up a lung so DJ had to take over the play by play.

Soxman219
06-23-2013, 05:04 PM
They did win 2 out of 3 though, which I expected because the Sox never beat the Royals when they are in contention. Now that the season is basically lost we'll probably win games against the Tigers too.

Frater Perdurabo
06-23-2013, 05:05 PM
Very disappointing loss.

Jesse Crain's scoreless inning streak is over.

And I get that you/we are disgusted that Alexei's error cost the Sox this game but as a Cuban-American, this part of your post is not funny to me.

Didn't mean to be funny, and certainly didn't mean to cause offense. Please accept my apologies.

October26
06-23-2013, 05:07 PM
Didn't mean to be funny, and certainly didn't mean to cause offense. Please accept my apologies.

Apology accepted. Thank you.

Tragg
06-23-2013, 05:09 PM
It was great having Danks in there trying to tie the game up in the 9th instead of Viciedo.
Pull those hitters in the 7th inning to play for that 1 run.
Please, Hahn, get a professional in the dugout.

RCWHITESOX
06-23-2013, 05:10 PM
Ramirez was lackadaisical on a previous play late in the game. This guy never learns and, in fact, has regressed. As a player, he's a loser. We need to pick up a place-holding shortstop and dump Ramirez as soon as possible. You can't tolerate his ongoing silliness.

De Aza didn't run after hitting a ball down the left-field line that was barely foul and would have been a double or triple.

It's comical that Beckham continues to bat eighth.

It's always the same old crap. De Aza, Ramirez just never seem to have their heads in the game.God I miss the days when the Sox had great fielding and fundamentally sound players. This team needs a CF,LF,SS, and catcher.

LITTLE NELL
06-23-2013, 05:18 PM
It's always the same old crap. De Aza, Ramirez just never seem to have their heads in the game.God I miss the days when the Sox had great fielding and fundamentally sound players. This team needs a CF,LF,SS, and catcher.

The first thing a team wants is to be strong up the middle, catcher, ss, 2b and cf, we fail in 3 of the 4.

waldo_the_wolf
06-23-2013, 05:33 PM
On a semi-related note, I think they should change the rule to where if a pitcher makes an error, then any runs scored because of it are earned, the same way a wild pitch is an earned run. That way one of Crain's runs would be earned. Of course, the runs scored on Ramirez's error would be unearned.

blandman
06-23-2013, 05:43 PM
What is lost is Gordon's clutch hit driving in two runs. Beckham's crouch at the plate makes him look as good at the plate since maybe his rookie year. He seems to have finally figured it out.

Good timing.

But hey, maybe we can coax something decent out of him.

LoveYourSuit
06-23-2013, 05:57 PM
Lost today is how much Dylan Axelrod sucks.

Beach Balls, that's what he throws up there.

Need to find someone else down in the farm to take his sport.

These are wasted innings for perhaps someone you can actually build for the future with.

amsteel
06-23-2013, 06:09 PM
Alexei was actually worse in '09 as far as runs saved goes:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramiral03-field.shtml

I know his parents are in the US, but is it possible he's having some sort of family issue either domestic or international? The drop off from last year is so precipitous that I feel like there has to be larger things at work than just regression.

Golden Sox
06-23-2013, 06:14 PM
It's been obvious this year that Alexei is not the defensive shortstop he has been in the past. Nobody will like to read this but are his defensive skills worse simply because he's older than his given age of 31? Alot of these foreign ballplayers are actually older than what they say they are. He has missed routine ground balls this year. His defensive skills have dimenished this 2013 season. Is he actually alot older than 31?

Stanley
06-23-2013, 06:52 PM
What is lost is Gordon's clutch hit driving in two runs. Beckham's crouch at the plate makes him look as good at the plate since maybe his rookie year. He seems to have finally figured it out.

lol

JB98
06-23-2013, 08:49 PM
We're not even halfway through the season yet, but it's obviously time to look toward 2014.

I'm pretty sure Rios and Beckham are the only two starting position players I'd want back for next season. Well, actually I wouldn't mind keeping De Aza -- as a fourth outfielder. Of course, if Hahn can get some pieces in exchange for Rios, he's gotta pull the trigger.

Pretty sure Sale is the only guy I absolutely would not move. I'd be inclined to hold on to Reed, as well, but I wouldn't describe him as off limits in a deal.

Boondock Saint
06-23-2013, 08:53 PM
We're not even halfway through the season yet, but it's obviously time to look toward 2014.

I'm pretty sure Rios and Beckham are the only two starting position players I'd want back for next season. Well, actually I wouldn't mind keeping De Aza -- as a fourth outfielder. Of course, if Hahn can get some pieces in exchange for Rios, he's gotta pull the trigger.

Pretty sure Sale is the only guy I absolutely would not move. I'd be inclined to hold on to Reed, as well, but I wouldn't describe him as off limits in a deal.

I hate the idea of holding onto a good closer when you're not really going to be needing one for at least a couple of years. Closers don't last, and it'd be a complete waste if he stops being effective before we're ready to contend and we didn't get anything for him because we wanted to keep him for the future.

Jurr
06-23-2013, 08:54 PM
Alexei was actually worse in '09 as far as runs saved goes:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramiral03-field.shtml

I know his parents are in the US, but is it possible he's having some sort of family issue either domestic or international? The drop off from last year is so precipitous that I feel like there has to be larger things at work than just regression.

He is a Cuban immigrant who moved to a phenomenal city and gets 5 million a year + to play baseball. The guy is loving life, as he should.

Maybe he has fallen in love? Maybe he is enjoying his life a ton, since his entire life has been spent playing a game at a high level so he could enjoy an easier existence. Quite possibly, he is content and isn't practicing he fundamentals quite as hard as he used to.

We forget the human condition sometimes, and that can be a problem.
This is why I love the concept of loading the roster full of guys with upcoming contracts or a chip on their shoulders.

They work harder. They want it a little more.

JB98
06-23-2013, 09:01 PM
I hate the idea of holding onto a good closer when you're not really going to be needing one for at least a couple of years. Closers don't last, and it'd be a complete waste if he stops being effective before we're ready to contend and we didn't get anything for him because we wanted to keep him for the future.

He's young and cheap and somebody has to pitch out of the bullpen. Why not him and Jones? There's no reason to pay mediocre veterans inflated salaries to do that job.

If somebody offered me a big return, yeah, I'd trade Reed. But I wouldn't actively try to move him. The guys with salaries are the ones that need to go first.

Reed's status as the closer on the team is beside the point.

WhiteSox5187
06-23-2013, 09:02 PM
I hate the idea of holding onto a good closer when you're not really going to be needing one for at least a couple of years. Closers don't last, and it'd be a complete waste if he stops being effective before we're ready to contend and we didn't get anything for him because we wanted to keep him for the future.

I agree that it is kind of pointless to hold onto a closer when you aren't really contending, that was part of the logic in trading Sergio Santos in 2011 (or at least that is what a lot of posters claimed) however if they are going to trade Reed they need to get more than a Nestor Molina level prospect.

JB98
06-23-2013, 09:03 PM
Lost today is how much Dylan Axelrod sucks.

Beach Balls, that's what he throws up there.

Need to find someone else down in the farm to take his sport.

These are wasted innings for perhaps someone you can actually build for the future with.

Erik Johnson is very close to big-league ready. We'll see him in the rotation before the year is over.

WhiteSox5187
06-23-2013, 09:04 PM
He's young and cheap and somebody has to pitch out of the bullpen. Why not him and Jones? There's no reason to pay mediocre veterans inflated salaries to do that job.

If somebody offered me a big return, yeah, I'd trade Reed. But I wouldn't actively try to move him. The guys with salaries are the ones that need to go first.

Reed's status as the closer on the team is beside the point.

Yea but Reed is the guy who can get you the most value in terms of prospects because he is young and cheap. Not as many teams are going to want to get those expensive veterans and they certainly won't be willing to give up much for them.

JB98
06-23-2013, 09:10 PM
Yea but Reed is the guy who can get you the most value in terms of prospects because he is young and cheap. Not as many teams are going to want to get those expensive veterans and they certainly won't be willing to give up much for them.

Of course, I'm an evil, evil Sox fan. I've yet to resign myself to the fact that the team is going to suck for five years. I actually think they could return to legitimate contention within about two years, well within the shelf life for a guy like Reed. So, someone would have to make me a great offer before I'd trade him.

Again, he's not untouchable. Just saying the offer would have to be very good. I wouldn't think twice about dealing Crain and Thornton.

WhiteSox5187
06-23-2013, 09:18 PM
Of course, I'm an evil, evil Sox fan. I've yet to resign myself to the fact that the team is going to suck for five years. I actually think they could return to legitimate contention within about two years, well within the shelf life for a guy like Reed. So, someone would have to make me a great offer before I'd trade him.

Again, he's not untouchable. Just saying the offer would have to be very good. I wouldn't think twice about dealing Crain and Thornton.

I don't think they will suck for 5 years but I don't think they will really be contending until 2016 or so and since it seems to me that the shelf life of a closer is about 3 years I would probably be more willing to at least shop him around, but I agree with you that it has to be for a high price. Much more than what we would get for Crain or Thornton.

Wedema
06-23-2013, 09:33 PM
Erik Johnson is very close to big-league ready. We'll see him in the rotation before the year is over.


I heard Buddy Bell on the Score yesterday morning saying that Johnson is ready now and compared him to Quintana last year coming from AA.

Tragg
06-23-2013, 09:41 PM
No need to rush any prospect; not sure it's worth it to start the arb clock, use an option, etc. unless we know they're ready.

And it just sucks to lose another game on errors with more bad managing as the coup de grace. This playing for one run business, and fear of them scoring 1 run is a losing philosophy.

SoxSpeed22
06-23-2013, 09:42 PM
In my eyes, there are few things more demoralizing than having an unreliable closer blow games you can win. If somebody wants to make a huge offer for Reed in the offseason, or even this season, then I would be okay with trading him, but I think he is important to hang onto. I don't think the White Sox should force any deals.

Frater Perdurabo
06-23-2013, 10:15 PM
Of course, I'm an evil, evil Sox fan. I've yet to resign myself to the fact that the team is going to suck for five years. I actually think they could return to legitimate contention within about two years, well within the shelf life for a guy like Reed. So, someone would have to make me a great offer before I'd trade him.

Again, he's not untouchable. Just saying the offer would have to be very good. I wouldn't think twice about dealing Crain and Thornton.

I agree completely with this.

BainesHOF
06-23-2013, 11:13 PM
It's always the same old crap. De Aza, Ramirez just never seem to have their heads in the game.God I miss the days when the Sox had great fielding and fundamentally sound players. This team needs a CF,LF,SS, and catcher.

They need to be taught how to approach and play the game properly. They have the talent to be so much better, but they get away with their continued silliness because they're never held accountable. Remember when Bobby Cox yanked Andruw Jones out of center field in the middle of a game when he didn't hustle? Jones got the message and went on to be one of the greatest defensive center fielders of all time.

Every game we have players who don't hustle or make mental blunders that call for a benching. But nothing ever happens. Ever. They play day after day after day. They get worse, and so does the team. Gee, I wonder why.

SI1020
06-24-2013, 08:51 AM
I heard Buddy Bell on the Score yesterday morning saying that Johnson is ready now and compared him to Quintana last year coming from AA. I was poring over the rosters and statistics for Charlotte and Birmingham and he stood out. After that Phegley and maybe Trayce Thompson. That's it.

Foulke You
06-24-2013, 11:27 AM
Lost today is how much Dylan Axelrod sucks.

Beach Balls, that's what he throws up there.

Need to find someone else down in the farm to take his sport.

These are wasted innings for perhaps someone you can actually build for the future with.
It seems Axelrod is running out of mojo. I was worried about this the second time through the league with him. It seems more teams are waiting him out and not chasing as much of his pitches out of the zone and then they tee off when he does challenge them. Axelrod hasn't been doing himself any favors by pitching up the zone lately too. When you throw 85mph, you simply cannot pitch up there. I think Axelrod has probably been pitching on borrowed time anyway. Peavy is going to claim a spot when he comes back and Santiago has been pitching well and has a much higher ceiling. I give the kid credit that he gets by on very little stuff but like you, I'm not 100% sure he is a long term solution in the rotation.

I heard Buddy Bell on the Score yesterday morning saying that Johnson is ready now and compared him to Quintana last year coming from AA.
Johnson was promoted from AA Birmingham where he was doing well to AAA Charlotte yesterday. It seems like he is on the fast track to the big leagues for sure.

doublem23
06-24-2013, 11:44 AM
It seems Axelrod is running out of mojo. I was worried about this the second time through the league with him. It seems more teams are waiting him out and not chasing as much of his pitches out of the zone and then they tee off when he does challenge them. Axelrod hasn't been doing himself any favors by pitching up the zone lately too. When you throw 85mph, you simply cannot pitch up there. I think Axelrod has probably been pitching on borrowed time anyway. Peavy is going to claim a spot when he comes back and Santiago has been pitching well and has a much higher ceiling. I give the kid credit that he gets by on very little stuff but like you, I'm not 100% sure he is a long term solution in the rotation.

Agreed, Axelrod's been a real asset this season, but this is absolutely as good of a player as he will be. And that's not a knock, the Sox have been desperately short of players like Axelrod for years; guys who can shuffle between AAA and the Majors and give the MLB team some much needed innings or at bats when called upon instead of the usual crapola the Sox have to rely upon. He's the definition of quality organizational depth; not going to be a star or even a regular starter, but a guy you can hand the ball to in a pinch and not **** your pants about it. But when Dylan Axelrod is on pace to throw 186 innings for your team in 33 starts, er, that's a problem.

Chez
06-24-2013, 12:07 PM
Agreed, Axelrod's been a real asset this season, but this is absolutely as good of a player as he will be. And that's not a knock, the Sox have been desperately short of players like Axelrod for years; guys who can shuffle between AAA and the Majors and give the MLB team some much needed innings or at bats when called upon instead of the usual crapola the Sox have to rely upon. He's the definition of quality organizational depth; not going to be a star or even a regular starter, but a guy you can hand the ball to in a pinch and not **** your pants about it. But when Dylan Axelrod is on pace to throw 186 innings for your team in 33 starts, er, that's a problem.

Yep. On a good team, Axelrod is a #6 or #7 starter --the guy you bring up to start the second game of a doube header (or insert when two guys in the rotation go down with injuries like Floyd and Jake have). His stuff is so mediocre that when his location and command aren't pinpoint, he'll get rocked -- no margin for error. Like others have said, I give him credit for what he's done so far.

Tragg
06-24-2013, 12:40 PM
Axe has done his job this year. If we'd have had him as fifth starter in one of those years between 2000 and 2005, we'd probably have another division. We're not contenders with or without him, and when we are, that spot will be upgraded.

JB98
06-24-2013, 01:05 PM
They need to be taught how to approach and play the game properly. They have the talent to be so much better, but they get away with their continued silliness because they're never held accountable. Remember when Bobby Cox yanked Andruw Jones out of center field in the middle of a game when he didn't hustle? Jones got the message and went on to be one of the greatest defensive center fielders of all time.

Every game we have players who don't hustle or make mental blunders that call for a benching. But nothing ever happens. Ever. They play day after day after day. They get worse, and so does the team. Gee, I wonder why.

Who do you want them to put in? Jordan Danks? He does the same **** out on the field as De Aza and Ramirez. At least De Aza hasn't gotten picked off at second base while representing the tying run in the ninth inning yet.

You have to understand, these are not young players. Ramirez is 31 years old. De Aza is 29. He's been in pro ball for over a decade. The coaches aren't going to teach them how "to approach and play the game properly." These guys are who they are at this point. And in Ramirez's case, his skills appear to be in decline.

I'm past ready to move on from Ramirez, but at the same time I don't see another option in the organization. De Aza is a fourth outfielder on a good team.

This is not a good team, and frankly, I don't think there's a damn thing Ventura and the coaches can do about it. More starts for JorDanks, Wise or Casper Wells in the outfield isn't going to solve anything. Putting Keppinger at second and moving Beckham to shortstop will make the team even worse. I guarantee it. Ramirez may be sucking out there, but he's the only SS they've got.

It's up to the front office to fix this mess, IMO.