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View Full Version : *Official* 6-14 "Houston, we have a problem" HOU 2 SOX 1 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2013, 11:00 PM
Sale should give Alexei a once-over with a cue ball in a tube sock.

Tragg
06-14-2013, 11:02 PM
Stymied by the Astros.
Errors.
What a bunch of clowns.
Get to work, Hahn, on the dispersal.
We have an ace so there's something to build around.

billyvsox
06-14-2013, 11:03 PM
Ladies and Gentleman....your 2013 White Sox. Sam old story, great pitching, no hitting, crappy defense.

Its not going to change, because it never changes, It never changes because no one demands it change. Same old story...............

thomas35forever
06-14-2013, 11:05 PM
Worst loss of the season by far, and we've had some crappy ones. The changes need to be fast and frequent. This team is not contending, people. You listening, front office?

Bucky F. Dent
06-14-2013, 11:05 PM
In the game thread I posted that we had lost to the worst team in baseball. I don't think that's right. I think we are the worst team in baseball.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2013, 11:07 PM
In the game thread I posted that we had lost to the worst team in baseball. I don't think that's right. I think we are the worst team in baseball.

The Astros looked forward to this four-game set to pad their record.

We're like the team that everyone schedules for their homecoming game.

Dick Allen
06-14-2013, 11:07 PM
I've said it before. I've been following this team for 54 years, and I've never hated a Sox team as much as this one. For all I care, they can stay the hell on the road and never come back home again this season. ****ers. :angry: I've watched my last game for 2013.

RadioheadRocks
06-14-2013, 11:09 PM
This team is hopeless, COMPLETELY hopeless.

slavko
06-14-2013, 11:09 PM
In the game thread I posted that we had lost to the worst team in baseball. I don't think that's right. I think we are the worst team in baseball.

Since we beat ourselves, you were right the first time. Zero earned runs for either side. Hard to stay interested in this bunch.

thomas35forever
06-14-2013, 11:10 PM
I've said it before. I've been following this team for 54 years, and I've never hated a Sox team as much as this one. For all I care, they can stay the hell on the road and never come back home again this season. ****ers. :angry: I've watched my last game for 2013.

All right. Bye.

Soxman219
06-14-2013, 11:10 PM
Only the Sox can have a pitcher who K's 14 people, give up no earned runs, AND STILL LOSE. Seriously, **** this team. I weep for Chris Sale.

Dan H
06-14-2013, 11:13 PM
There was no suspense. I don't think anyone watching this game thought the Sox had a chance and they were a measely one run down. This offense is and will remain pathetic. There aren't enough bad things you can say about this team.

thomas35forever
06-14-2013, 11:13 PM
Only the Sox can have a pitcher who K's 14 people, give up no earned runs, AND STILL LOSE. Seriously, **** this team. I weep for Chris Sale.
I'm sure everyone also did for Luke Appling back in the day.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2013, 11:16 PM
If Hahn blows things up, I hope Alexei is dealt and we get to see Carlos Sanchez play shortstop.

mahagga73
06-14-2013, 11:18 PM
Only the Sox can have a pitcher who K's 14 people, give up no earned runs, AND STILL LOSE. Seriously, **** this team. I weep for Chris Sale.

Only the Sox promote the main architect of a mediocre to terrible baseball team to president.

shingo10
06-14-2013, 11:25 PM
What in the hell does Hahn need to"see" and "be patient with?"

Why are they not taking advantage of the fact that they can start rebuilding NOW?

fisk4ever
06-14-2013, 11:27 PM
Last year, weren't we saying that under Robin, there would be emphasis on fundamentals and hard work? Maybe that was just my perception at the time, but it sure hasn't come to pass.

BainesHOF
06-14-2013, 11:30 PM
It's time to organize a search party for Rick Hahn.

DirtySox
06-14-2013, 11:35 PM
What in the hell does Hahn need to"see" and "be patient with?"

Why are they not taking advantage of the fact that they can start rebuilding NOW?

Because you listen, take offers, wait for buyers to distinguish themselves, and weigh your options. Players are going to be dealt. Patience. It's quite unfortunate Peavy hurt himself though. He would have fetched a nice return.

Tragg
06-14-2013, 11:39 PM
Because you listen, take offers, wait for buyers to distinguish themselves, and weigh your options. Players are going to be dealt. Patience. It's quite unfortunate Peavy hurt himself though. He would have fetched a nice return.
He's the only one. Rios and the relievers will fetch some B prospects. Maybe De Aza if he heats up. Some other starters would too, but I doubt we deal them. They'll give Alexei to someone if we have someone in the system who can possibly play SS.

And don't get declining, marginal AAA prospects like we've done recently. Take the A and AA players with more talent.

Brian26
06-14-2013, 11:42 PM
I thought it was hilarious when Hawk started whining that the first Alexei error should have been a hit, but after the 2nd error the whining was that TWO unearned runs had scored on Sale and at the end of the game "nothing even close to an earned run scored."

If the scorer had changed the first error to a hit, then only one unearned run would have scored while the first run would have been earned.

Who ya crappin, Hawk?!???!

mahagga73
06-14-2013, 11:43 PM
Last year, weren't we saying that under Robin, there would be emphasis on fundamentals and hard work? Maybe that was just my perception at the time, but it sure hasn't come to pass.

I would have to think he has done about all the preaching and practicing of fundamentals time allows. We don't really know what goes on behind closed doors either but I would bet even Robin has laid the hammer down on certain players on this team. The fact is they are just a big collection of washed up's and never will be's . The complete and utter failure to develop any kind of positional talent has come to roost. Not to get all sabermetric and all but I think it's clear now this team was lucky last year and has regressed to the mean this year. The Sox we saw choke the division away last year was the real Sox. Lot's of the same players.

Tragg
06-14-2013, 11:51 PM
I think it's time to free Brent Morel. He would look good on this team.

shingo10
06-15-2013, 12:02 AM
Because you listen, take offers, wait for buyers to distinguish themselves, and weigh your options. Players are going to be dealt. Patience. It's quite unfortunate Peavy hurt himself though. He would have fetched a nice return.


That's part of the angst I feel. We don't have much that is attractive and I'd hate to see any other injuries pop up to detract value and limit our options even more.

Floyd and Peavy have already been damaged. Alexei is hurting his value everytime a ground ball is hit his way. And btw what happened to his power swing? Didn't he have like 4 grand slams or something his rookie year? He's lucky to hit it out of the infield.

Dan H
06-15-2013, 12:04 AM
I thought it was hilarious when Hawk started whining that the first Alexei error should have been a hit, but after the 2nd error the whining was that TWO unearned runs had scored on Sale and at the end of the game "nothing even close to an earned run scored."

If the scorer had changed the first error to a hit, then only one unearned run would have scored while the first run would have been earned.

Who ya crappin, Hawk?!???!

Hawk is desperate and has been for a long time. Otherwise he has to whine about something. He is bad as the rest of the team.

tstrike2000
06-15-2013, 12:35 AM
Not exactly the Bedard of old, but he had a good game plan against the Sox. The fastball was only about 88, but he worked inside to our hitters between the fastball and lollipop curve. We had our usual chances but stink on offense.

Too bad for Sale who deserved a lot better.

Jurr
06-15-2013, 12:42 AM
There is a certain relief to this mess-it's seeing the game through nothing but a scoreboard at PNC Park.

I sincerely hope that this Sox team is blown up soon. I have hated everything about it since 2009. It is a stale, lethargic, moribund product.
If the team continues to do what it is so adept at (losing), restructuring HAS to take place. Heads have to roll.

We can only hope and wait.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2013, 12:44 AM
What in the hell does Hahn need to"see" and "be patient with?"

Why are they not taking advantage of the fact that they can start rebuilding NOW?

He doesn't want to destroy attendance yet.

Tonight was about as bad as it gets. Offense a non factor, defense remains terrible.

Robin still sits there and says "we'll work on it..."

I agree time to blow it up, Hahn shouldn't need to 'see' anything more. This team couldn't contend if the other teams in the division forfeited.

Lip

shes
06-15-2013, 12:49 AM
At this rate Chris Sale will be collecting his first Cy Young after a sterling season in which he went 9-14.

SoxSpeed22
06-15-2013, 01:08 AM
Alexei has been having a major brain cramp this entire season. Maybe a change of scenery might help him, preferably to a group of guys who won't put up with those mistakes. The problem is who do you get to replace him with? The big problem here is that trading these guys might sound good, but there would be nothing else to work with.

StillMissOzzie
06-15-2013, 01:09 AM
Sale should give Alexei a once-over with a cue ball in a tube sock.
Getting tired of TCM's "make the fabulous play, muff the routine play" schtick

Stymied by the Astros.
Errors.
What a bunch of clowns.
Get to work, Hahn, on the dispersal.
We have an ace so there's something to build around.

I don't know who has much trade value left, but since it is looking like the Sox would finish last with them, can't do much any worse without them. IMHO, only Sale is untouchable.

Since we beat ourselves, you were right the first time. Zero earned runs for either side. Hard to stay interested in this bunch.

Thinking a bout a Sox moratorium until they put two W's in a row. This team is SO hard to watch right now.

Only the Sox can have a pitcher who K's 14 people, give up no earned runs, AND STILL LOSE. Seriously, **** this team. I weep for Chris Sale.

Same old, same old is right.

SMO
:mad::angry::gulp:

cards press box
06-15-2013, 01:25 AM
The Sox cannot hit. It's as simple as that. The defense has been poor so far but that is probably an aberration. The defense should regress to the mean and be a lot better the rest of the way. And don't forget, the pitching is quite good.

But the offense is awful. And Tyler Flowers, wow! He can't catch and he really can't hit.

Rick Hahn has to start re-tooling this offense. The Sox really have no alternative.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2013, 02:11 AM
Just some more thoughts on tonight's farce. Might be a good discussion topic if a mod wants to move it into a new thread.

I think there are two main reasons why you keep seeing the same things over and over from players the past few years in particular (in no particular order)

1. The organization from the top down does not hold people responsible for results. Loyalty means more than performance...than winning. That not only includes players but the front office.

2. Ozzie tried, Robin has tried to get fundamentals taught and preached (granted I honestly don't think Ozzie cared much but in fact he did try from time to time). Yet the same players are making the same mistakes.

There's a reason why guys can't hit the cutoff man, execute bunts, work a hit and run, keep getting caught on the bases. It's because they are baseball-stupid. Not saying they aren't smart guys, not saying they don't have common sense, I'm saying in terms of the small things about the game, the details, they are simply baseball stupid.

And it's costing the Sox wins.

The players know that Robin has very little he can hold over them despite the stupid things they keep doing. Who is going to replace DeAza for example when the Sox don't have a leadoff man? Who is going to replace Ramirez and his half assed attitude when they don't have another shortstop??

The players know this...Robin has to know it and the fans have known about this stuff since 2009.

Plenty of blame to go around, absolutely....but ultimately the bottom line is ownership has to set the tone, be in charge, place demands...and right now ownership is not doing any of those things.

Lip

LITTLE NELL
06-15-2013, 06:23 AM
Alexei has been having a major brain cramp this entire season. Maybe a change of scenery might help him, preferably to a group of guys who won't put up with those mistakes. The problem is who do you get to replace him with? The big problem here is that trading these guys might sound good, but there would be nothing else to work with.

Sale told Alexei that even Jeter makes errors.
The difference is that in Baseball 101, Jeter gers a A, Alexei gets a D.
Lets start the rebuild by trading him.

SephClone89
06-15-2013, 06:25 AM
Sale told Alexei that even Jeter makes errors.
The difference is that in Baseball 101, Jeter gers a A, Alexei gets a D.
Lets start the rebuild by trading him.

Hilarious, because Jeter is one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball.

LITTLE NELL
06-15-2013, 06:34 AM
Hilarious, because Jeter is one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball.

I'm talking about ''smarts''.

soxfanreggie
06-15-2013, 08:34 AM
Because you listen, take offers, wait for buyers to distinguish themselves, and weigh your options. Players are going to be dealt. Patience. It's quite unfortunate Peavy hurt himself though. He would have fetched a nice return.

On the other hand, aren't Thornton and Crain worth more now to teams in need of bullpen health. You may miss out on a team being desperate around the trade deadline, but I'd rather try now for a more established minor leaguer or two to bring over. No matter what assets we try for when dispersing these guys, can we get a young catcher as a top priority?

As far as Dunn, how much of his contract will we have to eat for next year to trade him?

Oh yeah, the game itself...nice job Chris! Everyone else...argh!

October26
06-15-2013, 09:10 AM
I finished working a 12 hour shift yesterday (7 am - 7 pm) and came home with a major headache.

Tuned in to watch the Sox game only to see another very disappointing loss.

Losing Ugly.

Looking for positives...kudos to Chris Sale for being the class act that he is.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2013, 09:12 AM
I am willing to bet Hahn is listening to offers, but is not finding any to his liking.

On the other hand, do you really think it builds value for Hahn to call up 20 other GMs and ask, "What will you give me for Thornton and Crain?"

Impulsive aggression is part of the reason we are in this mess; KW would pull the trigger quickly and often overpay when trading prospects to acquire a veteran, and often settle for lousy prospects when dealing away a veteran.

The fact that Floyd and Peavy suffered injuries sucks, but sometimes "it's a big **** sandwich, and we all have to take a bite."

ChiSoxGal85
06-15-2013, 09:14 AM
I finished working a 12 hour shift yesterday (7 am - 7 pm) and came home with a major headache.

Tuned in to watch the Sox game only to see another very disappointing loss.

Losing Ugly.

Looking for positives...kudos to Chris Sale for being the class act that he is.
Yep. Everyone in the lineup owes Sale dinner.

October26
06-15-2013, 09:18 AM
Yep. Everyone in the lineup owes Sale dinner.

Indeed.

Golden Sox
06-15-2013, 10:01 AM
After another dreadful loss last night, I have come to some conclusions:
1) The White Sox organization has no regard for Josh Phegley. If they did he would be playing on the White Sox now. Tyler Flowers looks totally overmatched at the plate. I think it was only right that Flowers be given a chance to make it this year. He's got his chance and he has flopped. I would think if the White Sox had a high opinion of Phegley, he would be given his chance now.
2) There's a nice article in todays Sun Times about Chris Sale. After losing last nights ugly game the article pointed out how Sale is not into the blame game. Some players blame their teammates for their losses. Sale could of blamed the White Sox offense or Ramirez for his loss last night, but he didn't. It's good to see that he's not a crybaby and he's not into the blame game. Some players have always been good at the blame game. One of them was Ron/Pizza Man/ Scab/Santo. It's good to see that Sale is not like that.
3) I'm just wondering if the real reason Hahn hasn't made any trades yet is because the other teams don't want most of the players Hahn is offering. Other than Sale, Rios and Reed I can't see any other team wanting anybody else the White Sox have. I would think that you probably wouldn't get much for Crain either simply because he's a free agent at the end of the season.

Chez
06-15-2013, 10:12 AM
You think it's bad now? Wait till the Blackhawks season ends (hopefully with Cup in tow) and we have nothing to distract us from this horror show.

fisk4ever
06-15-2013, 10:14 AM
I would have to think he has done about all the preaching and practicing of fundamentals time allows. We don't really know what goes on behind closed doors either but I would bet even Robin has laid the hammer down on certain players on this team. The fact is they are just a big collection of washed up's and never will be's . The complete and utter failure to develop any kind of positional talent has come to roost. Not to get all sabermetric and all but I think it's clear now this team was lucky last year and has regressed to the mean this year. The Sox we saw choke the division away last year was the real Sox. Lot's of the same players.
My thoughts, exactly.

Tragg
06-15-2013, 11:17 AM
After another dreadful loss last night, I have come to some conclusions:
1) The White Sox organization has no regard for Josh Phegley. If they did he would be playing on the White Sox now. Tyler Flowers looks totally overmatched at the plate. I think it was only right that Flowers be given a chance to make it this year. He's got his chance and he has flopped. I would think if the White Sox had a high opinion of Phegley, he would be given his chance now.
2) There's a nice article in todays Sun Times about Chris Sale. After losing last nights ugly game the article pointed out how Sale is not into the blame game. Some players blame their teammates for their losses. Sale could of blamed the White Sox offense or Ramirez for his loss last night, but he didn't. It's good to see that he's not a crybaby and he's not into the blame game. Some players have always been good at the blame game. One of them was Ron/Pizza Man/ Scab/Santo. It's good to see that Sale is not like that.
3) I'm just wondering if the real reason Hahn hasn't made any trades yet is because the other teams don't want most of the players Hahn is offering. Other than Sale, Rios and Reed I can't see any other team wanting anybody else the White Sox have. I would think that you probably wouldn't get much for Crain either simply because he's a free agent at the end of the season.
You get B prospects for these relievers with great numbers, free agent or not, if you try. We spent too many resources coddling goodwill. No giveaways of real players anymore, please.
As for Phegley, I'm hoping it's a matter of the Sox not wanting to rush him - I know he's older, but he's had a lot of DL time too. No use rushing a player up for this scrub team. Just like there's no point in pitching our young pitchers 100+ innings.

blandman
06-15-2013, 12:30 PM
I didn't watch last night's game, but when I read the headline about how it happened I wasn't shocked in the least.

This is the worst team in baseball. I've said it for months. Yeah, when they're hot they can beat anyone. When anyone's hot they can beat anyone. The other 95% of the time we win at a .300 clip.

This team and system is in terrible shape. No amount of free agent spending and trades will make this team better. It's time to realize the fact that we're 5 years+ away from building another winner. No one should be untouchable. Not even Sale.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2013, 12:33 PM
Tragg:

I disagree with your point about not pitching young pitchers 100+ innings right now.

With this brain-dead, non contending club, it is exactly the time to do that.

The pressure is abated somewhat, nobody cares really how the young pitchers do ultimately because the club is a joke. These are the circumstances for them to get their feet wet, start learning how to pitch at the big league level and have a more complete understanding of the game.

I'd rather them learn and make mistakes now rather than four years from now guys get called up in September in the middle of a pennant race and don't know what to do.

Lip

SoxSpeed22
06-15-2013, 12:34 PM
I think they should hang on to Rios until the offseason. He still has a year left on his deal, unless the team option is used. Plus, we might have to think about not being a .200 team for the rest of the year. Rios might be a little more enticing if the other team isn't on the hook for two years. Crain might be the only guy who can get us someone unless Rick gets really creative.

Huisj
06-15-2013, 12:37 PM
Yep. Everyone in the lineup owes Sale dinner.

And he'll eat all nine of them in one day probably from what we've heard about his food intake routine.

blandman
06-15-2013, 12:54 PM
I think they should hang on to Rios until the offseason. He still has a year left on his deal, unless the team option is used. Plus, we might have to think about not being a .200 team for the rest of the year. Rios might be a little more enticing if the other team isn't on the hook for two years. Crain might be the only guy who can get us someone unless Rick gets really creative.

If we sell, we'd prefer to be a .200 team the rest of the way. Better pick.

I know people hate talking like that, but if you sell you're essentially giving up anyway.

kittle42
06-15-2013, 12:59 PM
Yep. Everyone in the lineup owes Sale dinner.

And by the looks of him, he could use all those dinners.

kittle42
06-15-2013, 01:01 PM
If we sell, we'd prefer to be a .200 team the rest of the way. Better pick.

I know people hate talking like that, but if you sell you're essentially giving up anyway.

There is really no reason not to give up. Hope only goes so far.

Brian26
06-15-2013, 01:06 PM
I thought it was hilarious when Hawk started whining that the first Alexei error should have been a hit, but after the 2nd error the whining was that TWO unearned runs had scored on Sale and at the end of the game "nothing even close to an earned run scored."

If the scorer had changed the first error to a hit, then only one unearned run would have scored while the first run would have been earned.

Who ya crappin, Hawk?!???!

After re-visiting the box score this morning, I think I was wrong last night. Even if Cedeno gets on cleanly with a hit to lead off the inning, his run would have scored on Alexei's throwing error which should have been the third out, so I believe both runs would have been unearned even if Alexei was only charged with one error. I think. I need TDog or some other scoring wiz to verify that.

Brian26
06-15-2013, 01:09 PM
If we sell, we'd prefer to be a .200 team the rest of the way. Better pick.

I know people hate talking like that, but if you sell you're essentially giving up anyway.

Has it not been proven though that the difference between the 2nd pick and the 10th pick is really very small? This is not the NBA draft in terms of being able to forecast talent.

blandman
06-15-2013, 01:13 PM
Has it not been proven though that the difference between the 2nd pick and the 10th pick is really very small? This is not the NBA draft in terms of being able to forecast talent.

When teams draft based on bonus size? Yes.

But the top talent in the draft is almost always a better bet. It's just a lot of times it went to the Tigers, or the Red Sox, or the Yankees way down in the draft. For instance, after the top three in this years draft, there was a huge drop. Not in ceiling, but in probability. If you're asking scouts which guys are the best bet to be stars, those are the three names that come up.

JB98
06-15-2013, 01:51 PM
After re-visiting the box score this morning, I think I was wrong last night. Even if Cedeno gets on cleanly with a hit to lead off the inning, his run would have scored on Alexei's throwing error which should have been the third out, so I believe both runs would have been unearned even if Alexei was only charged with one error. I think. I need TDog or some other scoring wiz to verify that.

Both runs would have been unearned even if Cedeno had been credited with an infield single. If Ramirez makes an accurate throw on the Barnes grounder, it's the third out and no runs score -- even with the first error.

Sickening loss.

When I was at the ballpark last weekend, I was looking around the diamond while the Sox were on the field. I think I saw maybe two position players I'd want back for next season.

It's really a shame because I like this pitching staff a lot. I disagree with blandman's comments about this being the "worst team in baseball." The pitching staff is too good to allow this team to become the worst in baseball. On 17 occasions this year, they've won games despite scoring four runs or fewer. The pitching has allowed them to win some 3-1, 4-3 and 2-1 type games. Take that away, and maybe they become the worst team.

I would, however, be willing to entertain the idea that the Sox have the worst lineup in baseball. This group of nine regulars is very, very poor. They put a tremendous amount of pressure on the pitchers each and every day with their inability to score runs and idiotic mistakes in the field.

DrCrawdad
06-15-2013, 02:24 PM
Sickening loss.

...I would, however, be willing to entertain the idea that the Sox have the worst lineup in baseball. This group of nine regulars is very, very poor. They put a tremendous amount of pressure on the pitchers each and every day with their inability to score runs and idiotic mistakes in the field.

The Sox score one run against a pitcher with a 5 ERA? Terrible offense. Terrible defense. Mental mistakes. Lather, rinse repeat.

SephClone89
06-15-2013, 02:27 PM
Has anyone noted yet that Chris Sale clearly just doesn't have #TWTW?

DSpivack
06-15-2013, 02:57 PM
Sale yesterday was just the 3rd pitcher in the last 100 years to strike out 14+ batters, allow no earned runs and lose.

https://twitter.com/MDGonzales/status/345976508956946432

One of the other two was also on the '13 Sox. 1913:

https://twitter.com/MDGonzales/status/345977161158647809

shingo10
06-15-2013, 03:22 PM
2. Ozzie tried, Robin has tried to get fundamentals taught and preached (granted I honestly don't think Ozzie cared much but in fact he did try from time to time). Yet the same players are making the same mistakes.

There's a reason why guys can't hit the cutoff man, execute bunts, work a hit and run, keep getting caught on the bases. It's because they are baseball-stupid. Not saying they aren't smart guys, not saying they don't have common sense, I'm saying in terms of the small things about the game, the details, they are simply baseball stupid.

And it's costing the Sox wins.

The players know that Robin has very little he can hold over them despite the stupid things they keep doing. Who is going to replace DeAza for example when the Sox don't have a leadoff man? Who is going to replace Ramirez and his half assed attitude when they don't have another shortstop??

The players know this...Robin has to know it and the fans have known about this stuff since 2009.


Lip


The question then is what happened last year to make us one of the best defensive teams in baseball? Do the Sox still take infield before the first game of road series? Don't know if that makes much of a difference or not but something has changed drastically with pretty much the same group of guys who caught the ball really well last year. Maybe it was just a fluke.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2013, 03:50 PM
It may have been a fluke and it also might be the players have realized Robin has nothing to hold over them so they've said basically **** it....perhaps not consciously but the result is just the same.

Lip

Tragg
06-15-2013, 04:00 PM
Both runs would have been unearned even if Cedeno had been credited with an infield single. If Ramirez makes an accurate throw on the Barnes grounder, it's the third out and no runs score -- even with the first error.

Sickening loss.

When I was at the ballpark last weekend, I was looking around the diamond while the Sox were on the field. I think I saw maybe two position players I'd want back for next season.

It's really a shame because I like this pitching staff a lot. I disagree with blandman's comments about this being the "worst team in baseball."

Unless the staff collapses from constant pressure and frustration, which is possible.

Brian26
06-15-2013, 04:01 PM
Both runs would have been unearned even if Cedeno had been credited with an infield single. If Ramirez makes an accurate throw on the Barnes grounder, it's the third out and no runs score -- even with the first error.

Sickening loss.

When I was at the ballpark last weekend, I was looking around the diamond while the Sox were on the field. I think I saw maybe two position players I'd want back for next season.

It's really a shame because I like this pitching staff a lot. I disagree with blandman's comments about this being the "worst team in baseball." The pitching staff is too good to allow this team to become the worst in baseball. On 17 occasions this year, they've won games despite scoring four runs or fewer. The pitching has allowed them to win some 3-1, 4-3 and 2-1 type games. Take that away, and maybe they become the worst team.

I would, however, be willing to entertain the idea that the Sox have the worst lineup in baseball. This group of nine regulars is very, very poor. They put a tremendous amount of pressure on the pitchers each and every day with their inability to score runs and idiotic mistakes in the field.

Rios and Beckham?

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2013, 04:20 PM
It may have been a fluke and it also might be the players have realized Robin has nothing to hold over them so they've said basically **** it....perhaps not consciously but the result is just the same.

Lip

I think the poor fielding can be isolated to certain positions/players:

Flowers has been abysmal

Dunn has played more 1B as Paulie has DH-ed more

DeAza has played more LF, where his routes are terrible

Keppinger just doesn't have starter-quality range at 3B or 2B

Alexei seems to have regressed mentally

slavko
06-15-2013, 06:12 PM
And he'll eat all nine of them in one day probably from what we've heard about his food intake routine.

And by the looks of him, he could use all those dinners.

LOL. You guys are a riot. It's why I come here. Sale's diet is high cal, but full of fat and protein. It's the Atkins diet. Very little complex carbs. He needs a European grandmother to do his cooking.

DSpivack
06-15-2013, 06:43 PM
LOL. You guys are a riot. It's why I come here. Sale's diet is high cal, but full of fat and protein. It's the Atkins diet. Very little complex carbs. He needs a European grandmother to do his cooking.

That WSJ article about him was pretty funny, too.

RadioheadRocks
06-15-2013, 10:41 PM
Yep. Everyone in the lineup owes Sale dinner.


That being the case, he ought to eat good for the rest of the year.

oldgrouch
06-16-2013, 10:24 AM
I've said it before. I've been following this team for 54 years, and I've never hated a Sox team as much as this one. For all I care, they can stay the hell on the road and never come back home again this season. ****ers. :angry: I've watched my last game for 2013.

I've got you beat. Its been 65 years for me. Just remember if you guys would come to the park Jerry could afford to get better players.:wink::wink::wink:

mahagga73
06-16-2013, 10:52 AM
0-5 against the Cubs and Stros , just think about the magnitude of that. I can't believe people are still talking about how the Sox are bombing against horrible teams . Wake up call, they are a horrible team. And the architect of this dynasty was just promoted to President. On most teams with any kind of yearly expectations KW is long gone by now, World Series or not.

blandman
06-16-2013, 11:01 AM
0-5 against the Cubs and Stros , just think about the magnitude of that. I can't believe people are still talking about how the Sox are bombing against horrible teams . Wake up call, they are a horrible team. And the architect of this dynasty was just promoted to President. On most teams with any kind of yearly expectations KW is long gone by now, World Series or not.

Eh...I'm willing to give Kenny a pass when it comes to this tragedy. Sure, he was responsible for the personnel when he left the job, but he didn't twist Hahn's arm to make the bulk of his bone-head calls (considering Dayan and Flowers regulars, counting on Danks, not addressing an aging offense, etc.). We probably couldn't have competed, but Hahn is not blameless for us being this bad. It took a special kind of ineptitude for that, one which even Kenny could never reach on his own.

SI1020
06-16-2013, 11:21 AM
The question then is what happened last year to make us one of the best defensive teams in baseball? Do the Sox still take infield before the first game of road series? Don't know if that makes much of a difference or not but something has changed drastically with pretty much the same group of guys who caught the ball really well last year. Maybe it was just a fluke. I've been wondering the same thing since early in the year when it was obvious they were looking like the Keystone Kops on defense. What happened?

mahagga73
06-16-2013, 11:24 AM
Eh...I'm willing to give Kenny a pass when it comes to this tragedy. Sure, he was responsible for the personnel when he left the job, but he didn't twist Hahn's arm to make the bulk of his bone-head calls (considering Dayan and Flowers regulars, counting on Danks, not addressing an aging offense, etc.). We probably couldn't have competed, but Hahn is not blameless for us being this bad. It took a special kind of ineptitude for that, one which even Kenny could never reach on his own.

That's the thing. I don't want KW in a position where it is even a remote possibility he has a say in anything baseball related with his record the last 6 or 7 years. No playoffs , bad farm system , all leading to the joke of a lineup they have this year.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2013, 11:47 AM
Eh...I'm willing to give Kenny a pass when it comes to this tragedy. Sure, he was responsible for the personnel when he left the job, but he didn't twist Hahn's arm to make the bulk of his bone-head calls (considering Dayan and Flowers regulars, counting on Danks, not addressing an aging offense, etc.). We probably couldn't have competed, but Hahn is not blameless for us being this bad. It took a special kind of ineptitude for that, one which even Kenny could never reach on his own.

Wait a mintue, Kenny brought in all of those guys. Kenny was the guy who let the farm system wither away to nothing, Kenny was the guy who financially hand tied to the team to bad contracts. This year is more on Kenny than it is on Hahn!

cards press box
06-16-2013, 11:59 AM
Wait a mintue, Kenny brought in all of those guys. Kenny was the guy who let the farm system wither away to nothing, Kenny was the guy who financially hand tied to the team to bad contracts. This year is more on Kenny than it is on Hahn!

There is plenty of blame to go around on how the everyday lineup got this bad. But the question is this: how do the Sox get out of this box?

blandman
06-16-2013, 12:10 PM
Wait a mintue, Kenny brought in all of those guys. Kenny was the guy who let the farm system wither away to nothing, Kenny was the guy who financially hand tied to the team to bad contracts. This year is more on Kenny than it is on Hahn!

Hahn did nothing to fix it, and actually made it worse. He let AJ walk and replaced him Flowers (horrible move) and Keppinger (bad move). Seeing regression from the core (Konerko, Dunn), Hahn chose not to upgrade at other positions when an easy upgrade was possible in the outfield, where he instead chose to return the worst statistical regular LF in baseball for another go. People don't want to blame Hahn for some of these failures, but that's not taking into consideration things that should have been obvious to baseball people. Flowers and Viciedo were NEVER going to be starter quality players. De Aza's swing has always projected to be that of a borderline player. These are not players you count on if you're building a contender. If Hahn didn't realize that, he doesn't deserve to be General Manager.

blandman
06-16-2013, 12:10 PM
There is plenty of blame to go around on how the everyday lineup got this bad. But the question is this: how do the Sox get out of this box?

Ask again in five years.

SoxSpeed22
06-16-2013, 12:17 PM
There is plenty of blame to go around on how the everyday lineup got this bad. But the question is this: how do the Sox get out of this box?
0VjPNKc0VsU

The answers will not be easy to come by. They might not be able to do anything big until 2015 when most of said contracts come off of the books. Rick will have to get creative with adding more talent to the team. That may have to include trading one of our young starting pitchers for more pieces.

mahagga73
06-16-2013, 12:24 PM
There is plenty of blame to go around on how the everyday lineup got this bad. But the question is this: how do the Sox get out of this box?

Clean house.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2013, 12:43 PM
There is plenty of blame to go around on how the everyday lineup got this bad. But the question is this: how do the Sox get out of this box?

Just my thoughts...

As Noneck often writes, Hahn takes his orders like everyone else.

To answer Cards question...the Sox don't get out of this box until new ownership comes in, with people not connected at all to the Sox who can look at the problems with fresh ideas...and a new set of eyes on the problem.

That's the answer in a nutshell. Anything else is just a shell game since loyalty means more to current ownership than winning or changes would have happened five years ago.

Lip