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Lip Man 1
06-07-2013, 11:28 PM
Another game another loss....at least it wasn't in extra innings to these stiffs.

When was the last time the Sox went through a season without winning a game against a particular opponent?

The downhill slide for the Sox is rapidly accelerating. Seems like these guys are totally beatdown right now, no emotion anywhere, no fight, no spirit.

Blow it up Rick. Today would be a good start.

On a side note, has anybody else been seeing what Liriano is doing for Pittsburgh? Unbelieveable. Reminds me of David Wells, sucked with the Sox, as soon as he leaves he pitches lights-out.

Lip

BainesHOF
06-07-2013, 11:36 PM
Sale learned a tough lesson tonight. No matter how well you're pitching, you can't make a bad pitch in a crucial situation. It can cost you the game.

Ramirez's bunt attempt was pathetic. As Melton said afterward, "If you can't lay down a bunt, maybe you shouldn't be in the lineup."

Beckham's baserunning blunder didn't help, either. He hasn't exactly been a great baserunner in his career.

The ship's going down and its manager and top coach aren't with the team. Lame.

Hawk sure blew some smoke about the organization's draft record during his interview with Doug Laumann.

What will go wrong tomorrow?

RKMeibalane
06-07-2013, 11:39 PM
Sale learned a tough lesson tonight. No matter how well you're pitching, you can't make a bad pitch in a crucial situation. It can cost you the game.

Ramirez's bunt attempt was pathetic. As Melton said afterward, "If you can't lay down a bunt, maybe you shouldn't be in the lineup."

Beckham's baserunning blunder didn't help, either. He hasn't exactly been a great baserunner in his career.

The ship's going down and its manager and top coach aren't with the team. Lame.

Hawk sure blew some smoke during his interview with Doug Laumann.

What will go wrong tomorrow?

There are a number of players in baseball who probably can't do this, however. Frank Thomas never successfully sacrificed.

amsteel
06-07-2013, 11:41 PM
The losses make the trade deadline all the more exciting. Too bad there are 6 weeks til the deadline and 8 after that that will be spent hopelessly adrift.

amsteel
06-07-2013, 11:42 PM
There are a number of players in baseball who probably can't do this, however. Frank Thomas never successfully sacrificed.

He's a career 71% sac bunter, better than I thought, and technically above average.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2013, 11:45 PM
Sale learned a tough lesson tonight. No matter how well you're pitching, you can't make a bad pitch in a crucial situation. It can cost you the game.

Ramirez's bunt attempt was pathetic. As Melton said afterward, "If you can't lay down a bunt, maybe you shouldn't be in the lineup."

Beckham's baserunning blunder didn't help, either. He hasn't exactly been a great baserunner in his career.

The ship's going down and its manager and top coach aren't with the team. Lame.

Hawk sure blew some smoke about the organization's draft record during his interview with Doug Laumann.

What will go wrong tomorrow?

Baines:

The problem is who do you replace him with? And don't think for a second that these guys don't know there's basically nobody the manager can use to hold over their heads if they keep ****ing up.

I think that's part of the reason the same clowns keep making the same stupid mistakes that high school players don't.

Lip

Aesero
06-07-2013, 11:48 PM
He's a career 71% sac bunter, better than I thought, and technically above average.

Does that just look at bunts in play? Because he fails quite a bit early by just fouling them off or missing then ends up swinging away with two strikes.

Tragg
06-07-2013, 11:51 PM
I was listening to the game and Farmer said that Cespedes, a .240 hitter, was intentionally unintentionally walked.
If so, that's an outrageous decision and the 2nd time in a week that intentionally walking Cespedes and his .240 average (this time, to bring a .320 hitter to the plate) cost us a game.
The braintrust in the dugout needs a lobotomy.

slavko
06-07-2013, 11:57 PM
Alexei did lay a nice one down last night, but by stabbing at the ball, not deadening it. Bad technique works sometimes too. Would have been a nice game to win. Losing feels tragic rather than heartbreaking nowadays.

He did seem to pitch around Cespedes.

RKMeibalane
06-07-2013, 11:58 PM
Baines:

The problem is who do you replace him with? And don't think for a second that these guys don't know there's basically nobody the manager can use to hold over their heads if they keep ****ing up.

I think that's part of the reason the same clowns keep making the same stupid mistakes that high school players don't.

Lip

I completely agree, and this, more than anything, is what bothers me. Do these guys have no respect for themselves? Honestly, if all it takes to be a member of the Chicago White Sox is the ability to put on a Major League uniform and run onto a baseball field, just about any adult male between the ages of twenty and thirty five could probably start for the Sox right now. Who do these guys think they're kidding with this crap, and why does the organization not hold them accountable? I realize that there are no suitable replacements, but that doesn't mean players can't be subject to large fines or even suspension.

Hahn threatened changes if players didn't stop screwing up. We know that Ventura met privately with several people last week. Was Ramirez one of them? If these guys don't want to play anymore, I'm sure there are other players who do (albeit less talented players). I may be in the minority, but I would rather watch this team lose while trying to learn how to play the game the right way than squeak by with this half-witted crap. Reinsdorf probably thinks it's our fault, but when has he ever done anything to appease this fanbase?

:reinsy

"If you come to the park, we'll get better players."

Brian26
06-08-2013, 12:24 AM
I was listening to the game and Farmer said that Cespedes, a .240 hitter, was intentionally unintentionally walked.
If so, that's an outrageous decision and the 2nd time in a week that intentionally walking Cespedes and his .240 average (this time, to bring a .320 hitter to the plate) cost us a game.
The braintrust in the dugout needs a lobotomy.

Cespedes had two homers against our lefty starter last night didnt he?

Tragg
06-08-2013, 12:27 AM
Cespedes had two homers against our lefty starter last night didnt he?

Not named Sale.

This business of putting runners on, and especially the WINNING run is just bizarre. Walks have killed us this year....and so have Ventura's intentional walks.

We had a 3 run lead. Just play the game.

BainesHOF
06-08-2013, 12:30 AM
Baines:

The problem is who do you replace him with? And don't think for a second that these guys don't know there's basically nobody the manager can use to hold over their heads if they keep ****ing up.

I think that's part of the reason the same clowns keep making the same stupid mistakes that high school players don't.

Lip

Yes, that is the problem.

Ramirez needs to go.

Mr. Jinx
06-08-2013, 12:35 AM
Yes, that is the problem.

Ramirez needs to go.

If you're making a line out the door, Ramirez isn't even in the top 10. There's much bigger fish to fry on this team.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2013, 12:43 AM
I completely agree, and this, more than anything, is what bothers me. Do these guys have no respect for themselves? Honestly, if all it takes to be a member of the Chicago White Sox is the ability to put on a Major League uniform and run onto a baseball field, just about any adult male between the ages of twenty and thirty five could probably start for the Sox right now. Who do these guys think they're kidding with this crap, and why does the organization not hold them accountable? I realize that there are no suitable replacements, but that doesn't mean players can't be subject to large fines or even suspension.

Hahn threatened changes if players didn't stop screwing up. We know that Ventura met privately with several people last week. Was Ramirez one of them? If these guys don't want to play anymore, I'm sure there are other players who do (albeit less talented players). I may be in the minority, but I would rather watch this team lose while trying to learn how to play the game the right way than squeak by with this half-witted crap. Reinsdorf probably thinks it's our fault, but when has he ever done anything to appease this fanbase?

:reinsy

"If you come to the park, we'll get better players."

Today you basically can't fine or suspend a player for lack of execution. The MLBPA would go to an arbitrator to fight it.

The only answer is to bench the player and you get back to the original point...there's no one to replace them with.

Lip

BainesHOF
06-08-2013, 12:45 AM
If you're making a line out the door, Ramirez isn't even in the top 10. There's much bigger fish to fry on this team.

You can have the dumb, light-hitting shortstop who can't bunt, makes mental mistakes and has a silly presence. He's a real winner.

Let's have your top 10.

JB98
06-08-2013, 01:33 AM
This team should never sacrifice bunt. I mean never. This lineup is already quite proficient at giving away at-bats and making outs. They don't need any help from the bench to do that.

SoxSpeed22
06-08-2013, 02:27 AM
This is just what happens. Their home runs barely jump over the fence, ours get pulled back in. Coop pushed a few wrong buttons today.

thomas35forever
06-08-2013, 03:00 AM
Seriously, when was the last time we were hit this lethal a combination of putrid hitting and horrible luck? This has 2007 written all over it. Names like Wells and Keppinger are going to be right up there with Erstad and Richar. I don't know what they're drinking in that clubhouse, but it needs to be shipped out of their fast along with a bunch of players.

LITTLE NELL
06-08-2013, 06:29 AM
Seriously, when was the last time we were hit this lethal a combination of putrid hitting and horrible luck? This has 2007 written all over it. Names like Wells and Keppinger are going to be right up there with Erstad and Richar. I don't know what they're drinking in that clubhouse, but it needs to be shipped out of their fast along with a bunch of players.

This could be worse than 2007, we are now in last place and I don't see this team escaping the cellar. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, just darkness.
There are some guys on this team I despise starting with Alexei, De Aza and Dunn. It also looks like PK might be done, it's time to blow it up.

roylestillman
06-08-2013, 08:56 AM
It is not fun at the old ballpark anymore. Beyond some bad baseball last night, the amount of outright silence during the game was disturbing. Not to beat a dead horse, but the whole opening scoreboard package is just awful. When they tried to repair the montage by replacing the spoken narrative with some anonymous music that is so muffled and out of sync with the clips they failed I've seen dozens of better presentations on You Tube.

Not wanting to leave on a total down note, I think big congrats have to go out to whoever organized the Downers Grove Youth Baseball night.i have never seen a bigger crowd do the pre game walk around the stadium. Was anybody left in Downers Grove last night?

Mr. Jinx
06-08-2013, 09:09 AM
You can have the dumb, light-hitting shortstop who can't bunt, makes mental mistakes and has a silly presence. He's a real winner.

Let's have your top 10.

I'll take the light hitting shortstop who makes more than enough great plays to compensate for the boneheaded ones over the:

no hitting catcher Flowers
record setting first baseman Dunn
big free agent signing of the offseason Keppinger
never was De Aza and Wise
never will bes baby Danks, Wells, and Jones
I got old Thorton
broken down Floyd

SCCWS
06-08-2013, 09:19 AM
You can have the dumb, light-hitting shortstop who can't bunt, makes mental mistakes and has a silly presence. He's a real winner.

Let's have your top 10.

He probably falls in the top 10 but I agree he is not a priority for replacement. Statistically, he rates offensively and defensively in most categories as an average MLB shortstop. When you are last in the AL in offense and the bottom 3rd in defense, the average player is not why you are in that position.

Having said that, when you start to tear down and rebuild, attitude is important especially around young players. So if he is a "cancer" in a rebuild, then he needs to go at some point in Phase 2.

Mr. Jinx
06-08-2013, 10:08 AM
He probably falls in the top 10 but I agree he is not a priority for replacement. Statistically, he rates offensively and defensively in most categories as an average MLB shortstop. When you are last in the AL in offense and the bottom 3rd in defense, the average player is not why you are in that position.

Having said that, when you start to tear down and rebuild, attitude is important especially around young players. So if he is a "cancer" in a rebuild, then he needs to go at some point in Phase 2.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't shed a tear if he was shipped out of town, but it is ridiculous to think Alexei is the biggest problem on our team!

If anything, Ramirez might bring back as much as anyone else on our team in a trade. He is a former silver slugger and shown when focused he is as good as any shortstop in the league. Coupled with a very team friendly contract still he could bring in something good from a contending team that just so happens to have a big hole up the middle and a great farm system <cough> Cardinals <cough>

Wedema
06-08-2013, 10:25 AM
It is not fun at the old ballpark anymore. Beyond some bad baseball last night, the amount of outright silence during the game was disturbing. Not to beat a dead horse, but the whole opening scoreboard package is just awful. When they tried to repair the montage by replacing the spoken narrative with some anonymous music that is so muffled and out of sync with the clips they failed I've seen dozens of better presentations on You Tube.

Not wanting to leave on a total down note, I think big congrats have to go out to whoever organized the Downers Grove Youth Baseball night.i have never seen a bigger crowd do the pre game walk around the stadium. Was anybody left in Downers Grove last night?


I noticed how few people even stood up and sang the seventh inning stretch last night.

Golden Sox
06-08-2013, 11:33 AM
1) Does anybody know what Beckham was doing when he got caught being picked off? Was that just a brain cramp?
2) The only positive I got out of last nights overall experience was that was one of the best fireworks show I have ever seen. The fireworks were set to music of movie themes.
3) I talked to somebody who works for the White Sox and was told unless Dunn steps it up the rest of the year, he won't be with the team in 2014. If they can't move him to another team, they'll just eat the last year of his contract.

Wedema
06-08-2013, 12:05 PM
1) Does anybody know what Beckham was doing when he got caught being picked off? Was that just a brain cramp?
2) The only positive I got out of last nights overall experience was that was one of the best fireworks show I have ever seen. The fireworks were set to music of movie themes.
3) I talked to somebody who works for the White Sox and was told unless Dunn steps it up the rest of the year, he won't be with the team in 2014. If they can't move him to another team, they'll just eat the last year of his contract.


So JR is going to eat $15M?

BainesHOF
06-08-2013, 12:09 PM
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't shed a tear if he was shipped out of town, but it is ridiculous to think Alexei is the biggest problem on our team!

Nobody said Alexei is the biggest problem on "our" team. Hyperbolic fantasy doesn't go down well around here.

russ99
06-08-2013, 12:59 PM
I completely agree, and this, more than anything, is what bothers me. Do these guys have no respect for themselves? Honestly, if all it takes to be a member of the Chicago White Sox is the ability to put on a Major League uniform and run onto a baseball field, just about any adult male between the ages of twenty and thirty five could probably start for the Sox right now. Who do these guys think they're kidding with this crap, and why does the organization not hold them accountable? I realize that there are no suitable replacements, but that doesn't mean players can't be subject to large fines or even suspension.

Hahn threatened changes if players didn't stop screwing up. We know that Ventura met privately with several people last week. Was Ramirez one of them? If these guys don't want to play anymore, I'm sure there are other players who do (albeit less talented players). I may be in the minority, but I would rather watch this team lose while trying to learn how to play the game the right way than squeak by with this half-witted crap. Reinsdorf probably thinks it's our fault, but when has he ever done anything to appease this fanbase?

:reinsy

"If you come to the park, we'll get better players."


Spot on.

Kinda sucks that the only guy who seems to have some pride, a plan and some success at the plate is Rios and he'll probably be the first one out of town.

Gonna be interesting to see what our roster looks like a month or two from now. The team and fans need a spark.

hawkjt
06-08-2013, 01:05 PM
It is getting crazy how they keep finding ways to blow leads and lose games.

They should be 2-0 on this homestand,and the whole attitude would be different....but no, they are 0-2 and the ship be sinking....

oldgrouch
06-08-2013, 01:32 PM
Another game another loss....at least it wasn't in extra innings to these stiffs.

When was the last time the Sox went through a season without winning a game against a particular opponent?

The downhill slide for the Sox is rapidly accelerating. Seems like these guys are totally beatdown right now, no emotion anywhere, no fight, no spirit.

Blow it up Rick. Today would be a good start.

On a side note, has anybody else been seeing what Liriano is doing for Pittsburgh? Unbelieveable. Reminds me of David Wells, sucked with the Sox, as soon as he leaves he pitches lights-out.

Lip
Starting to make me wonder about the great Don Cooper.:scratch::scratch:

Lip Man 1
06-08-2013, 01:33 PM
1) I talked to somebody who works for the White Sox and was told unless Dunn steps it up the rest of the year, he won't be with the team in 2014. If they can't move him to another team, they'll just eat the last year of his contract.

Golden:

This is the second time you've mentioned this.

Please PM me. I'm not going to ask for your source but I would like some background info on how high up the food chain they are. I'd like to pursue this comment with my contacts in the organization / front office.

Thanks,
Lip

SoxSpeed22
06-08-2013, 01:58 PM
As far as Liriano goes, I think that should be more towards praising Ray Searage in Pittsburgh. He has been able to make AJ Burnett an ace, and the Pirates pitching has been amongst the top of the league.

TomBradley72
06-08-2013, 02:17 PM
This team is one of the biggest messes since the 1986 "Hawk Wants You" version of the White Sox.

I was a big Ventura fan- but alot of this has to be owned by him and his coaching staff- the mental and physical errors, the bullpen meltdowns, the lack of spirit/fight. Horrible to have TCM bunting last night- why give up an out when you 2 batters later- you'll be giving up another out with Dunn? Why is Dunn still batting 4th/5th?

Rios, Beckham and Gillaspie are OK.

Alexei has regressed- he was such a smart, intense ballplayer in 2008- that guy is gone.

Viciedo has regressed- doesn't really seem to give a ****.

Age has quickly descended on Paulie.

Hahn is a highly respected talent in MLB- I'd have some faith that he could pull off a turnaround- but I don't like KW overseeing Hahn- it was KW that created this mess.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2013, 03:29 PM
Tom:

Playing devil's advocate here but many would say Hahn also was part of the decision making process for 13 years that eventually led down this road.

The question is how much was he part of the process? But both Kenny and Hahn have said they were close, respected each other and weren't afraid to voice their opinions to each other.

That's why I think it's time for a complete outsiders look at the organization and new people being brought in to all the key front office positions.

Now unfortunately you and I know that won't happen until new ownership comes in.

Lip

slavko
06-08-2013, 05:48 PM
Starting to make me wonder about the great Don Cooper.:scratch::scratch:

Halo Don. Sure Searage gets credit for Liriano. But nothing's ever wrong with Halo Don.

I noticed how few people even stood up and sang the seventh inning stretch last night.

The atmosphere was funereal.

Gotta see that $15M get eaten. Might happen.

mahagga73
06-08-2013, 05:51 PM
There are a number of players in baseball who probably can't do this, however. Frank Thomas never successfully sacrificed.
Frank never had 1 HR and 13 RBI's in the middle of June. Alexei is about 1,100,000,000 as good a hitter as Frank.

mahagga73
06-08-2013, 05:55 PM
This team is one of the biggest messes since the 1986 "Hawk Wants You" version of the White Sox.

I was a big Ventura fan- but alot of this has to be owned by him and his coaching staff- the mental and physical errors, the bullpen meltdowns, the lack of spirit/fight. Horrible to have TCM bunting last night- why give up an out when you 2 batters later- you'll be giving up another out with Dunn? Why is Dunn still batting 4th/5th?

Rios, Beckham and Gillaspie are OK.

Alexei has regressed- he was such a smart, intense ballplayer in 2008- that guy is gone.

Viciedo has regressed- doesn't really seem to give a ****.

Age has quickly descended on Paulie.

Hahn is a highly respected talent in MLB- I'd have some faith that he could pull off a turnaround- but I don't like KW overseeing Hahn- it was KW that created this mess.
Agree 100 percent. The Sox should have hired a manager with some experience. Robin doesn't know what buttons to push so he isn't pushing any. Yes, this is on KW ,and I agree, I hate the idea of him being anywhere in a position of power that might even be construed as having influence on any decisions. He made this mess so I don't want him anywhere near the recovery effort. There is no way you can make any judgement on Hahn for at least a few years, this mess of KW creation is that bad.

Mr. Jinx
06-08-2013, 11:33 PM
Nobody said Alexei is the biggest problem on "our" team. Hyperbolic fantasy doesn't go down well around here.

Yay big words! You pretty much implied that.

BainesHOF
06-09-2013, 02:19 AM
Yay big words! You pretty much implied that.

I'll play along. Please show me where I implied that Ramirez is the team's biggest problem.