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Lip Man 1
06-07-2013, 12:15 PM
Talks about the latest PED situation in MLB:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9352214/frank-thomas-says-legends-opposed-players-ped-ties-gaining-hall-fame-entry

Lip

Dibbs
06-07-2013, 12:33 PM
I love Frank Thomas. Can't wait to get back to Cooperstown.

Marqhead
06-07-2013, 12:43 PM
Great comments, I'm going to plan a trip for his induction.

Irishsox1
06-07-2013, 12:50 PM
Frank will make the hall of fame and the anti-steroid stance will only make it easier. Yes, at the time he received a lot of criticism from the media for calling out these guys but it turned out to be the smart move.

Madvora
06-07-2013, 04:09 PM
There's still some idiots in the comments section thinking he used steroids.

RKMeibalane
06-07-2013, 04:35 PM
There's still some idiots in the comments section thinking he used steroids.

Unfortunately, there will always be. There are some people who, no matter what kind of information you give them, refuse to believe anyone but themselves. Common sense is an endangered species.

doublem23
06-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Unfortunately, there will always be. There are some people who, no matter what kind of information you give them, refuse to believe anyone but themselves. Common sense is an endangered species.

I don't know, I personally don't think he ever took steroids, but it's not like impossible to think he did. Basically everyone in baseball was juicing in the '90s. Unfortunately, everyone is a suspect.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2013, 05:13 PM
Three guys who should be beyond suspision...Thomas, Griffey Jr. and Thome.

Lip

RKMeibalane
06-07-2013, 05:20 PM
I don't know, I personally don't think he ever took steroids, but it's not like impossible to think he did. Basically everyone in baseball was juicing in the '90s. Unfortunately, everyone is a suspect.

I agree, but I would hope that people would be able to look at the evidence and draw the appropriate conclusion. Frank's a big man, but he's always been that much bigger than his years. I remember watching the '93 AS Game in Baltimore, and CBS had an interview with his former Little League coach. During the interview, they showed a team photo, and Frank was by far the biggest kid on a team of twelve-year-olds. What's more, Thomas freely admits that he's the smallest person in his family (his sisters are bigger than he is), so it's not as though his size makes him an oddity.

BainesHOF
06-07-2013, 07:15 PM
Three guys who should be beyond suspision...Thomas, Griffey Jr. and Thome.

Lip

Why do you say Thome? Personally, I don't think he juiced, but he maintained his power past a player's usual physical prime.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2013, 07:27 PM
Thome's size never changed dramatically, he was consistently good for a long period of time and his character (personal resume if you will with charity work, willingness to help teammates, interact with fans) all say to me he would be repulsed by even the notion of using PED's.

Met him briefly in 06 and was very impressed, have also been told how hard he worked to stay physically fit and overcome his back issues in his later years.

Lip

TDog
06-07-2013, 08:01 PM
When Thomas was still playing for the White Sox, an A's beat writer from the Contra Costa paper accused him of being on steroids. When he played for the A's, there was no question in the local media that Thomas was clean. What is insidious about the use of performance-enhancing drugs is that people, many of whom should know better, accuse players without cause because that's what they want to believe. Thomas' numbers aren't cause. As he told a reporter after his future lineup protection was caught having used a corked bat, he doesn't need to cheat because he works hard.

I used to think Thomas wouldn't make the Hall of Fame on the first ballot. Reporters didn't particularly like him and vice versa. The media used to take cheap shots at him, and he made it easy for them to do so. Not that first-ballot Hall of Famers are in a special wing. Carlton Fisk wasn't a first-ballot inductee. Luke Appling, the previous greatest hitter in White Sox history, got less than 5 percent of votes in his early years on the ballot. Nellie Fox was a Veterans Committee selection.

But I think the five-year wait has allowed baseball people to appreciate what Frank Thomas was to the era he played. I think he contrasts against players with hollow numbers. I also think his comments may signal that less than clean players aren't going to get a break from the Veterans Committee.

RKMeibalane
06-07-2013, 08:37 PM
When Thomas was still playing for the White Sox, an A's beat writer from the Contra Costa paper accused him of being on steroids. When he played for the A's, there was no question in the local media that Thomas was clean. What is insidious about the use of performance-enhancing drugs is that people, many of whom should know better, accuse players without cause because that's what they want to believe. Thomas' numbers aren't cause. As he told a reporter after his future lineup protection was caught having used a corked bat, he doesn't need to cheat because he works hard.

I used to think Thomas wouldn't make the Hall of Fame on the first ballot. Reporters didn't particularly like him and vice versa. The media used to take cheap shots at him, and he made it easy for them to do so. Not that first-ballot Hall of Famers are in a special wing. Carlton Fisk wasn't a first-ballot inductee. Luke Appling, the previous greatest hitter in White Sox history, got less than 5 percent of votes in his early years on the ballot. Nellie Fox was a Veterans Committee selection.

But I think the five-year wait has allowed baseball people to appreciate what Frank Thomas was to the era he played. I think he contrasts against players with hollow numbers. I also think his comments may signal that less than clean players aren't going to get a break from the Veterans Committee.

I think Thomas' problems with the media had more to do with how the Chicago media chose to portray him than anything else. Frank didn't help himself by talking openly and honestly about his contract or how he thought the Sox should have handled his departure after 2005, but the media chose to represent him in a negative light, all the while making excuses for Sosa because he blew kisses at TV cameras and ran around in circles waving to drunken fans in the right field bleachers.

After Thomas went to Oakland, his problems with reporters seemed to vanish, almost overnight. I don't remember any unfavorable stories being written about him by the folks in the Bay Area, nor do I remember anyone in Toronto having trouble with him. Both places seemed genuinely happy to have a player of Frank's caliber in their midst, and they treated him with more respect than the Chicago media did for much of his career. Now that Thomas has spent time himself as a part of the media (working as an analyst for CSN, for example), I think people have had a chance to appreciate the kind of person he is, and that much of what he said that was taken the wrong way (often deliberately) was the result of his wearing his heart on his sleeve, rather than his trying to pick a fight with anyone.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2013, 09:12 PM
I think Thomas' problems with the media had more to do with how the Chicago media chose to portray him than anything else. Frank didn't help himself by talking openly and honestly about his contract or how he thought the Sox should have handled his departure after 2005, but the media chose to represent him in a negative light, all the while making excuses for Sosa because he blew kisses at TV cameras and ran around in circles waving to drunken fans in the right field bleachers.

After Thomas went to Oakland, his problems with reporters seemed to vanish, almost overnight. I don't remember any unfavorable stories being written about him by the folks in the Bay Area, nor do I remember anyone in Toronto having trouble with him. Both places seemed genuinely happy to have a player of Frank's caliber in their midst, and they treated him with more respect than the Chicago media did for much of his career. Now that Thomas has spent time himself as a part of the media (working as an analyst for CSN, for example), I think people have had a chance to appreciate the kind of person he is, and that much of what he said that was taken the wrong way (often deliberately) was the result of his wearing his heart on his sleeve, rather than his trying to pick a fight with anyone.

I'll go further than that. Frank's problems in the media were almost exclusively the result of an overwhelmingly virulent anti-Sox, pro-Cubs bias, in Chicago sports media, for reasons that have been well documented here and elsewhere.

The anti-Sox, pro-Cubs bias was so overwhelming that it was almost invisible, like the 78% Nitrogen in our atmosphere. And it didn't help that so many members of the media, for self-serving reasons, and/or because they were delusional, denied that the bias existed.

Noneck
06-07-2013, 09:39 PM
Thomas first competed with Chicagos all time media darling, jordan. Then came sosa who was also golden till the corked bat. It really was a shame because Thomas was Chicagos best ball player since Ernie Banks. He basically was a good guy, sure he made some bad business decisions and divorces but thats part of life. He is a well spoken educated guy who if played 10 years earlier would have been a darling.

TDog
06-08-2013, 02:31 PM
I think Thomas' problems with the media had more to do with how the Chicago media chose to portray him than anything else. Frank didn't help himself by talking openly and honestly about his contract or how he thought the Sox should have handled his departure after 2005, but the media chose to represent him in a negative light, all the while making excuses for Sosa because he blew kisses at TV cameras and ran around in circles waving to drunken fans in the right field bleachers.

After Thomas went to Oakland, his problems with reporters seemed to vanish, almost overnight. I don't remember any unfavorable stories being written about him by the folks in the Bay Area, nor do I remember anyone in Toronto having trouble with him. Both places seemed genuinely happy to have a player of Frank's caliber in their midst, and they treated him with more respect than the Chicago media did for much of his career. Now that Thomas has spent time himself as a part of the media (working as an analyst for CSN, for example), I think people have had a chance to appreciate the kind of person he is, and that much of what he said that was taken the wrong way (often deliberately) was the result of his wearing his heart on his sleeve, rather than his trying to pick a fight with anyone.

All of this is true, and I certainly don't have much respect for the people working in the Chicago sports media after Jerome Holtzman and a few of his contemporaries. But Thomas also had trouble with the national media while in Chicago, no doubt rooted in his problems with the Chicago media. He was treated like a horrible person by the Bay Area media while he was in Chicago, even being accused of being on steroids. No doubt, after Thomas left Chicago he made a conscious effort to have a better relationship with the media.

RKMeibalane
06-08-2013, 02:38 PM
All of this is true, and I certainly don't have much respect for the people working in the Chicago sports media after Jerome Holtzman and a few of his contemporaries. But Thomas also had trouble with the national media while in Chicago, no doubt rooted in his problems with the Chicago media. He was treated like a horrible person by the Bay Area media while he was in Chicago, even being accused of being on steroids. No doubt, after Thomas left Chicago he made a conscious effort to have a better relationship with the media.

The irony of this is beyond laughable, given the hero-worship with which Canseco and McGwire were treated for years, although the media was tired of Canseco by the time the A's traded him to Texas in 1992.

thomas35forever
06-08-2013, 04:16 PM
Frank will be a first-ballot HOFer. Any voters who think otherwise should have their vote rescinded.

TDog
06-08-2013, 07:36 PM
The irony of this is beyond laughable, given the hero-worship with which Canseco and McGwire were treated for years, although the media was tired of Canseco by the time the A's traded him to Texas in 1992.

Not to mention Giambi. And I don't believe A's steroid use ended there.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2013, 09:53 PM
Frank will be a first-ballot HOFer. Any voters who think otherwise should have their vote rescinded.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should be wrapped in a burlap sack and beaten with reeds.