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View Full Version : The Adam Dunn Poll Thread


voodoochile
06-03-2013, 11:46 AM
Testing this statement:

Most fans just want to see him gone obvously. Even if his replacement is as bad or worse, at least it's not him.

Edit: Public poll folks, put your money where your mouth is.

Rocky Soprano
06-03-2013, 11:50 AM
Completely disagree with that statement. I want the Sox to win! Dump him, when you have someone that will put up better numbers. Until then, make him play but bat him lower.

Edit: I am not opposed to dumping him if it would save the Sox some money. As for getting prospects, I doubt Dunn would net us much of anything. If Hahn can trade Dunn, save the team some cash and get a player in return he would be GM of the year.

voodoochile
06-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Completely disagree with that statement. I want the Sox to win! Dump him, when you have someone that will put up better numbers. Until then, make him play but bat him lower.

I'd trade him if they can get someone in return even if they have to eat salary. I just don't see this team going anywhere this year so I can understand if they cut and run.

I don't want him flat cut. I see NO upside in that.

Rocky Soprano
06-03-2013, 11:55 AM
I'd trade him if they can get someone in return even if they have to eat salary. I just don't see this team going anywhere this year so I can understand if they cut and run.

I don't want him flat cut. I see NO upside in that.

I just edited my post to agree with your vote as well.
I would cheer dumping him in that scenario.

Like you, I see no upside whatsoever by just flat out cutting him.

harwar
06-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Perhaps they can add him in a package deal near the deadline .. pay half his salary..

sox1970
06-03-2013, 12:30 PM
Let's put it this way...if the Sox announced they released Dunn and just ate the final $25 mil left, I would be happy I don't have to watch him anymore.

That said, it's not very likely this season. Maybe a year from now if he's a bust after two months, maybe they dump him with four months left on his contract.

One thing is for sure- Adam Dunn will never play a playoff game in a Sox uniform, so the sooner he's gone, the better.

16th&State
06-03-2013, 12:45 PM
I honestly don't care what they do with him as long as he is not batting anywhere 1-6 in the lineup.

If the Sox out right released him and ate his remaining contract, I would jump for joy because that would take some balls.

If the Sox ever got to that point, I would hope that they would trade him for anything, even a bag of balls, while sending out at much cash as necessary, since they would be eating his contract anyway...

DL him, permanently bench him, trade him, release him, whatever. Just never bat him clean-up ever again...

kittle42
06-03-2013, 12:47 PM
You don't dump him unless you get *something* - even just salary relief. Someone is going to get hurt and someone could take a shot at him.

Madvora
06-03-2013, 12:48 PM
I don't understand the argument of "we have no one to replace him with."
Replace what? He's an automatic out. Do you really think every player in our minor league organization is incapable of hitting above .160 in the major leagues?

mantis1212
06-03-2013, 01:08 PM
Just bench him, please. Releasing him will do not except open a roster spot. DH Viceido and put Wise in LF, or somebody that can hit over .200 for crying out loud.

Maybe a month on the DL for some made-up injury can change things. but really, there's no good answer.

mantis1212
06-03-2013, 01:09 PM
I don't understand the argument of "we have no one to replace him with."
Replace what? He's an automatic out. Do you really think every player in our minor league organization is incapable of hitting above .160 in the major leagues?

Exactly

EnglishChiSox
06-03-2013, 01:23 PM
I don't understand the argument of "we have no one to replace him with."
Replace what? He's an automatic out. Do you really think every player in our minor league organization is incapable of hitting above .160 in the major leagues?

I think no Minor Leaguer is likely to hit the home runs Dunn could.

Rocky Soprano
06-03-2013, 01:26 PM
I don't understand the argument of "we have no one to replace him with."
Replace what? He's an automatic out. Do you really think every player in our minor league organization is incapable of hitting above .160 in the major leagues?

Exactly

Please name a couple that are ready to be brought up and do just that, without hurting their development.

Jordan Danks is already on the MLB roster and we see what he is capable of doing. There is not one player that comes to mind that can be brought up and help this team win now.

russ99
06-03-2013, 02:15 PM
Paulie's hurting and we're going nowhere, how about putting Dunn at 1B for a few weeks, in a last-ditch attempt to turn him around a bit, either for us or as a precursor to a dump trade.

Not defending him, but he never wanted to DH, he just accepted it since we paid him all that cash. Some players just can't deal with the mental aspect of being DH.

Madvora
06-03-2013, 02:37 PM
Please name a couple that are ready to be brought up and do just that, without hurting their development.

Jordan Danks is already on the MLB roster and we see what he is capable of doing. There is not one player that comes to mind that can be brought up and help this team win now.
I'll admit I don't really know our minor leagues too well anymore. And, there probably is no one down there to help us "win now." But, this team isn't just one player away from being good. I just meant that there's surely somebody there that can outhit .160. I'll also admit you have a point about development though, because a replacement would have to either DH or play 1B. You have unlimited options of putting any minor league hitter in the DH role, but then you would take time away from them playing the field. However, you could even throw Dwayne Wise in the DH role for the rest of the season and he'd surely hit over .200.
Bottom line, this team's not going to win with replacing one player.

TaylorStSox
06-03-2013, 03:12 PM
What is his projected WAR and how does WAR relate to salary? On average, how many millions is a "win" worth?

voodoochile
06-03-2013, 03:25 PM
What is his projected WAR and how does WAR relate to salary? On average, how many millions is a "win" worth?

This presupposes that WAR is a valid statistic when taken to a level of "millions per win".

There are years one more win would be worth millions of dollars because it would mean the difference between the playoffs, millions in additional revenue and a shot at glory or going golfing.

I don't want to turn this into a stats discussion but WAR is one of those stats which has never been tested empirically. No one has actually tried to field their AAA team or a team of nothing but minimum wage players to see how it would work out. I suspect it would win a lot less than 60 games if someone did, but I have no evidence for that either.

Now there are years when 60 wins isn't that big a deal or even 50. It won't mean a thing for the Marlins long term if they lose 10 more wins of their end of year total, but man 10 less wins for the Yankees this year would be huge.

It's all subjective and it's all perspective and again, WAR is completely untested at it's extremes...

TomBradley72
06-03-2013, 03:32 PM
Good luck finding a trading partner or anyone willing to pay him more than the major league minimum- of these current contenders- I don't see a candidate- not for a .160 hitter-

AL-BoSox, NYY, TB, BALT, DET, CLEV, TEX, OAK

NL-ATL, CINN, PITT, StL, ARIZ, SF, COL

TaylorStSox
06-03-2013, 03:33 PM
This presupposes that WAR is a valid statistic when taken to a level of "millions per win".

There are years one more win would be worth millions of dollars because it would mean the difference between the playoffs, millions in additional revenue and a shot at glory or going golfing.

I don't want to turn this into a stats discussion but WAR is one of those stats which has never been tested empirically. No one has actually tried to field their AAA team or a team of nothing but minimum wage players to see how it would work out. I suspect it would win a lot less than 60 games if someone did, but I have no evidence for that either.

Now there are years when 60 wins isn't that big a deal or even 50. It won't mean a thing for the Marlins long term if they lose 10 more wins of their end of year total, but man 10 less wins for the Yankees this year would be huge.

It's all subjective and it's all perspective and again, WAR is completely untested at it's extremes...

I understand all of that and wasn't questioning the validity if the stat. It wasn't intended to be debated. I was curious about how stats would reflect whether its better to sink the cost or to keep playing him. Do stat guys think it would be better to dump a guy that will end up around .180/30/85 and continue to pay him? Or, keep him and try get some value back for the money based on his production? How much money is his production worth?

voodoochile
06-03-2013, 03:46 PM
I understand all of that and wasn't questioning the validity if the stat. It wasn't intended to be debated. I was curious about how stats would reflect whether its better to sink the cost or to keep playing him. Do stat guys think it would be better to dump a guy that will end up around .180/30/85 and continue to pay him? Or, keep him and try get some value back for the money based on his production? How much money is his production worth?

IMO, given the Sox are a lot closer to the Marlins' season than the Yankees this year, I don't really think it matters much. No one is going to go to the park to see Adam Dunn and if those are his stats he won't make the difference in some dramatic second half surge to lead the team to the playoffs.

If the team, as I suspect, finishes out of the playoffs and at best around .500 for the season, Dunn being her or not doesn't really matter. If it means rushing some prospect to the majors and might cause that prospect to struggle long term with the jump then they should eat the salary and continue playing Dunn to let the kid mature naturally.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2013, 04:19 PM
Bench him v. LHP. Drop him in the lineup. Hope he improves average and OPS against RHP to where another team will trade for him.

eastchicagosoxfan
06-03-2013, 07:47 PM
I don't understand the argument of "we have no one to replace him with."
Replace what? He's an automatic out. Do you really think every player in our minor league organization is incapable of hitting above .160 in the major leagues?
Your statement sums up my opinion. He's getting paid and doing nothing other than taking up a roster spot. Every pro sports organization except the Cubs puts winning first. By keeping Dunn, the Sox team says $$ trumps winning. Every team makes mistakes. Cut him and move on.

gobears1987
06-03-2013, 07:50 PM
I'd rather see him benched permanently until he gets his lazy ass into shape.

mahagga73
06-03-2013, 09:34 PM
Only if there is someone better to play . Nobody wants that contract so that is a mute point. He is one of the few Sox who can actually drive in a run.

34rancher
06-03-2013, 10:08 PM
Let's put it this way...if the Sox announced they released Dunn and just ate the final $25 mil left, I would be happy I don't have to watch him anymore.

That said, it's not very likely this season. Maybe a year from now if he's a bust after two months, maybe they dump him with four months left on his contract.

One thing is for sure- Adam Dunn will never play a playoff game in a Sox uniform, so the sooner he's gone, the better.

Um, don't you mean Adam will never play in an MLB playoff game in his career? Wow, how the masses have turned. I got roasted, ridiculed, and told how little I knew for saying that the day we signed him. As kids, we often played right field out, Adam is the Designated Out. Hated this signing when it was suggested, hate it more now.
And for people saying only if someone else is better, my question is who else is worse? You could bat our coaching staff at the age they are and produce as much as he is. Gimme a break and cut bait.

Edit: On the bright side, notice every team he has played for got better immediately after he left. So we have that to look forward to in 2 years.

mahagga73
06-03-2013, 10:22 PM
Um, don't you mean Adam will never play in an MLB playoff game in his career? Wow, how the masses have turned. I got roasted, ridiculed, and told how little I knew for saying that the day we signed him. As kids, we often played right field out, Adam is the Designated Out. Hated this signing when it was suggested, hate it more now.
And for people saying only if someone else is better, my question is who else is worse? You could bat our coaching staff at the age they are and produce as much as he is. Gimme a break and cut bait.

Edit: On the bright side, notice every team he has played for got better immediately after he left. So we have that to look forward to in 2 years.
That's kind of coincidental these teams got better when he left. The Red's and Nat's were stockpiling talent from the draft and he became expendable. I think maybe he is a convenient scapegoat for the job the Sox have not done putting a good lineup out there this year. Yeah, he isn't good, but who is on this team? Saying just get rid of him is easy when you aren't writing the check. Nobody disputes he has not lived up to the money by a longshot , but most Sox fans were positive about the signing and a lot of the angst is 20/20 hindsight . Who knew his skills were declining at this rate, there was nothing in his performance at the time to suggest this big of a dropoff . He was about 31 or so, not 37. It was just another Sox signing gone wrong. Due to the poor job the front office has done developing positional talent, I don't know what they could possibly come up with that is a better option at this point. There is little chance he is going to get released making that kind of $$$. Your being kind of dramatic saying anyone could replace him. He is on pace for 30 HR's and a 100 RBI's or so. The average and strikeouts are the amazingly bad part. Like I said before, the fact the rest the lineup is so useless is magnifying his shortcomings.

BigKlu59
06-03-2013, 10:33 PM
Hey, If we can get a box of popcorn and/or a bag of sunflower seeds and a kid for "Wizzer", I say go for it.. When it rains, it pours... Shame its come down to this....

BK59

Boondock Saint
06-03-2013, 10:41 PM
I don't understand the argument of "we have no one to replace him with."
Replace what? He's an automatic out. Do you really think every player in our minor league organization is incapable of hitting above .160 in the major
leagues?

Are they all capable of hitting 40 HR's, too? He's better.

BigKlu59
06-03-2013, 11:04 PM
Are they all capable of hitting 40 HR's, too? He's better.

Sounds like we are settling for something of the Dave Kingman variety. IE..Watching your team lose, waiting for a moonshot between air-conditioning the crowd for 3 AB's or more... At this point he's not even able to perform to the novelty status the Barker is trying to sell in front of the curtain... Step right up !!!! Checked the league HR leaders and dont even see a mention of Mighty Casey..

BK59

tstrike2000
06-04-2013, 12:01 AM
Can I change my vote? I'd pay to watch him pack his bags.

Boondock Saint
06-04-2013, 12:59 AM
Sounds like we are settling for something of the Dave Kingman variety. IE..Watching your team lose, waiting for a moonshot between air-conditioning the crowd for 3 AB's or more... At this point he's not even able to perform to the novelty status the Barker is trying to sell in front of the curtain... Step right up !!!! Checked the league HR leaders and dont even see a mention of Mighty Casey..

BK59

I get that he sucks. But our minor league system is even worse, and there's nobody who can capably replace him. He leads the team in RBI, for cryin' out loud!

DSpivack
06-04-2013, 01:15 AM
I get that he sucks. But our minor league system is even worse, and there's nobody who can capably replace him. He leads the team in RBI, for cryin' out loud!

Holy crap, I didn't realize that. The Sox truly are pathetic.

Falstaff
06-04-2013, 01:33 AM
I think no Minor Leaguer is likely to hit the home runs Dunn could.


1) Bench Dunn.
2) Start a promotion where local beer league bigshot players get
to DH for a night. If they get a hit or better, that player returns
to DH again the next night. If, like Dunn, they fail to get a hit, the
next night you bring in a new beer league bigshot.
3) Expect BA >.160 and some inspired play.
4) Expect attendance to take a modest leap.
5) Baseball will be fun on the Southside once again.
6) Dunn will finally be embarrassed after the beer league hustlers
perform better.

Boondock Saint
06-04-2013, 05:23 AM
1) Bench Dunn.
2) Start a promotion where local beer league bigshot players get
to DH for a night. If they get a hit or better, that player returns
to DH again the next night. If, like Dunn, they fail to get a hit, the
next night you bring in a new beer league bigshot.
3) Expect BA >.160 and some inspired play.
4) Expect attendance to take a modest leap.
5) Baseball will be fun on the Southside once again.
6) Dunn will finally be embarrassed after the beer league hustlers
perform better.

Setting aside how ridiculous this idea is in general, it's not possible to expect .160 from a guy off of the street like that, considering that in your scenario, you're expecting a guy to hit .333 (or better) right from the start, and maintain that pace on a day to day basis. Not only that, but the minimum salary for an MLB player is just about $500,000 a year, meaning you'd have to pay about $3,000 and provide health insurance for every single scrub you bring out there, on top of the fact that you'd be calling every single player in your minor league system a hack worth less to your team than some douche off the street, making all of them completely worthless in any potential future trades.

Madvora
06-04-2013, 07:24 AM
Are they all capable of hitting 40 HR's, too? He's better.
Sure, if Dunn could do that, we wouldn't have a problem. The fact is that he's incapable of hitting anything anymore. His career is over. He's already been the worst hitter in the history of baseball and he's looking to do that again, two out of the last three years.

QueerGirrl
06-04-2013, 12:52 PM
Holy crap, I didn't realize that. The Sox truly are pathetic.


I didn't either, wow they are terrible!

SI1020
06-04-2013, 05:10 PM
Sounds like we are settling for something of the Dave Kingman variety. IE..Watching your team lose, waiting for a moonshot between air-conditioning the crowd for 3 AB's or more... At this point he's not even able to perform to the novelty status the Barker is trying to sell in front of the curtain... Step right up !!!! Checked the league HR leaders and dont even see a mention of Mighty Casey..

BK59 Dave Kingman was Babe Ruth compared to the White Sox version of Adam Dunn.

TaylorStSox
06-04-2013, 05:12 PM
Sure, if Dunn could do that, we wouldn't have a problem. The fact is that he's incapable of hitting anything anymore. His career is over. He's already been the worst hitter in the history of baseball and he's looking to do that again, two out of the last three years.

In fairness, he's still on pace for 35 and hit 40 last year.