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View Full Version : It's 100% Time to Release Adam Dunn


TomBradley72
05-31-2013, 09:25 AM
2+ full seasons-

His "career" stats with the White Sox- .180 batting average, .305 OBP, .690 OPS, with 468 K's in 1124 ABs.

.159 BA in May- other than April/May 2012, no other months where he has hit > .204.

He's black hole in the middle of the line up- significant "addition by subtraction"- replace him with Keppinger as DH when Beckham returns or DH Viciedo and call up Danks.

I doubt Ventura, Hahn and KW have the stones to do it- but its time.

(it's also time to replace Flowers with Phegley, and Wise with Danks- too much dead weight on this roster)-


Shake it up.

blandman
05-31-2013, 09:30 AM
Since we're not competing, releasing him wouldn't make sense. As his contract nears it's finish, if he gets hot enough, we might be able to get something for him.

Noneck
05-31-2013, 09:35 AM
The Sox salt and pepper 20+M, Not going to happen.

voodoochile
05-31-2013, 10:16 AM
Why? Not gonna save money. Got no one else makes sense to put at DH. When he's on a hot streak he can still carry the team like he did for a few weeks earlier this month when the Sox climbed back to .500.

I understand people are upset because the Sox just lost 3 straight to the flubbies, but releasing Dunn makes NO sense at all...

Brewski
05-31-2013, 10:23 AM
Why? Not gonna save money. Got no one else makes sense to put at DH. When he's on a hot streak he can still carry the team like he did for a few weeks earlier this month when the Sox climbed back to .500.

I understand people are upset because the Sox just lost 3 straight to the flubbies, but releasing Dunn makes NO sense at all...

Right you are. Remember how we thought he had it figured out not that long ago? Hawk telling us that he watched videos of his NL swing with Manto? But it was over in the blink of an eye.

Still, acting out of anger is for fools.

mahagga73
05-31-2013, 10:25 AM
Why? Not gonna save money. Got no one else makes sense to put at DH. When he's on a hot streak he can still carry the team like he did for a few weeks earlier this month when the Sox climbed back to .500.

I understand people are upset because the Sox just lost 3 straight to the flubbies, but releasing Dunn makes NO sense at all...
Nope, the Sox and us fans are pretty much stuck with him and his deplorable batting average and strikeouts. He does get some RBI's in a horrendously bad lineup. It is what it is, makes no sense to release the guy making millions of dollars. I can't really say it was a bad move because nobody expected what they got that first year, the worst batting season in the history of baseball. He was ok last year and somewhere in between this year. I loved this move, you look at his career totals and there was nothing to make one think, despite age, he would be this bad. No Monday quarterbacking here.

SCCWS
05-31-2013, 10:29 AM
Why? Not gonna save money. Got no one else makes sense to put at DH. When he's on a hot streak he can still carry the team like he did for a few weeks earlier this month when the Sox climbed back to .500.

I understand people are upset because the Sox just lost 3 straight to the flubbies, but releasing Dunn makes NO sense at all...


I agree that releasing Dunn does not make sense, especially with such limited talent on the 40 man. But the organization should make a move or two to show their displeasure. Maybe the Danks for Wise but that would seem to be really minor. I think you call up Phegley and give him some bats at catcher and DH. Forget the BS that the pitchers may be upset. If Flowers or Giminez goes on the DL, the same issue would arise.

Bobby Thigpen
05-31-2013, 10:32 AM
Forget the BS that the pitchers may be upset.
Then, when the starting pitching tanks, we can complain about that move.

This is going to be the team for the rest of the year. There are no moves to make. For lack of better phraseology, deal with it.

mahagga73
05-31-2013, 10:36 AM
I agree that releasing Dunn does not make sense, especially with such limited talent on the 40 man. But the organization should make a move or two to show their displeasure. Maybe the Danks for Wise but that would seem to be really minor. I think you call up Phegley and give him some bats at catcher and DH. Forget the BS that the pitchers may be upset. If Flowers or Giminez goes on the DL, the same issue would arise.
They need to do something that much is certain. Robin is the manager, and the same mistakes are being made over and over again, players heads aren't in the game, excuses are being thrown around like crazy. They need to show the fans they care about this season, whether that is a lost cause or not. That shameful performance this week probably cost them a boatload in ticket sales, therefore parking and concessions, and team merchandise, etc.

beasly213
05-31-2013, 10:37 AM
At the very least stop batting him the middle of the lineup.

kittle42
05-31-2013, 10:38 AM
This is going to be the team for the rest of the year. There are no moves to make. For lack of better phraseology, deal with it.

Exactly. Releasing Dunn does nothing for a team that really isn't much of anything as a whole, anyway.

Golden Sox
05-31-2013, 10:53 AM
The only player that was similar to Adam Dunn with the White Sox was Ron(Pizza Man/Scab) Santo. The White Sox traded for Santo after the 73 season and gave him a 2 year contract. Santo was brutal during the 1974 season. He only hit 5 home runs for the White Sox and he didn't hit his weight. The White Sox benched him the last month of the season. Santo took the hint and retired after the 74 season. Santo walked away from his last year of the contract. First of all, the White Sox have to get another hitter from somewhere and plug him into the lineup. Then you simply bench Dunn. Hopefully he will take the hint and retire. Dunn has claimed he would retire when the game was no longer fun for him. Bench him on a permanent basis and lets see what he does. I think the White Sox have been more than fair with him the past 3 seasons. They have giving him every opportunity to succeed and he has flopped here. He has been the worse cleanup hitter in modern baseball history. (post World War 2) I would be happy never to see him bat for the White Sox again.

PaleHoser
05-31-2013, 11:08 AM
At the very least stop batting him the middle of the lineup.

+1. Eighth would be my spot for him. I wouldn't want him ninth because in the event he'd reach base once in a while he'd clog them for the top of the order.

The Immigrant
05-31-2013, 11:24 AM
At the very least stop batting him the middle of the lineup.

And stop playing him against lefties.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2013, 11:36 AM
The only player that was similar to Adam Dunn with the White Sox was Ron(Pizza Man/Scab) Santo. The White Sox traded for Santo after the 73 season and gave him a 2 year contract. Santo was brutal during the 1974 season. He only hit 5 home runs for the White Sox and he didn't hit his weight. The White Sox benched him the last month of the season. Santo took the hint and retired after the 74 season. Santo walked away from his last year of the contract. First of all, the White Sox have to get another hitter from somewhere and plug him into the lineup. Then you simply bench Dunn. Hopefully he will take the hint and retire. Dunn has claimed he would retire when the game was no longer fun for him. Bench him on a permanent basis and lets see what he does. I think the White Sox have been more than fair with him the past 3 seasons. They have giving him every opportunity to succeed and he has flopped here. He has been the worse cleanup hitter in modern baseball history. (post World War 2) I would be happy never to see him bat for the White Sox again.

Facts:

Dunn is owed 23 million dollars. JR is not going to release him with that money owed.

Dunn "retiring" would be totally and completely irresponsible to his family with that kind of money left on the table

Ron Santo wasn't making anywhere close to what Dunn was making so the example listed has no bearing - and the Sox have no hammer to use on Dunn say by benching him because of what they owe him.

So I think we can forego the listed example for the next two years, it's simply not going to happen.

Can I see Robin moving Dunn down in the lineup? I certainly hope so but as Kittle said (paraphrasing) with all the issues surrounding this team and the organization it really won't make that much of a difference.

Lip

tstrike2000
05-31-2013, 12:11 PM
Albatross contract and albatross player equal no real options. Unfortunately, we just have to ride it out and have it go down in Sox history as the worst dollar for value signing we've ever had.

SI1020
05-31-2013, 12:19 PM
This is depressing. All these reasons why the earth will fall of its axis if Dunn is released. Can we at least bench him? Or like The Immigrant says at least bench him against lefties?

JB98
05-31-2013, 01:05 PM
They aren't going to release him. Forget about it. They do need to decrease his at-bats, IMO. I see two ways to do that. Both are reasonable:

Bench him against lefties. Bat him seventh or eighth against righties.

dickallen15
05-31-2013, 01:42 PM
They aren't going to release him. Forget about it. They do need to decrease his at-bats, IMO. I see two ways to do that. Both are reasonable:

Bench him against lefties. Bat him seventh or eighth against righties.

I would agree with this. I don't see any reason to bat him 3rd, 4th or 5th until he shows he can fill that role. He did have a little stretch where he was great, so he still has it in him if he can find that stroke. But, let's face it, we were giddy when he hit .204 with an .800 OPS while having to sit out the last day of the season to avoid setting a new strikeout record last year. If that was considered good, he shouldn't be in the top half of a line up ever.

Crestani
05-31-2013, 01:45 PM
Since we're not competing, releasing him wouldn't make sense. As his contract nears it's finish, if he gets hot enough, we might be able to get something for him.


:rolling:

thomas35forever
05-31-2013, 01:54 PM
Not with his contract. It wouldn't just be bad business for us. It would be bad for baseball. Suddenly, the days of large guaranteed contracts would be put at risk. As much as I'd like to see a salary cap in MLB, one of the attractions for teams in the long run is that they get fans to come out and see their stars produce for an extended period. Dunn should not be the player to ruin it for everyone. Believe it or not, most players are serviceable at worst for contracts like these. Has Soriano lived up to his deal every year with the Cubs? No. His defense has left something to be desired in years past. Still, most would love to have him on their team. The Cubs have been rather lucky to have him all this time.

If Adam Dunn is the reason blockbuster deals can't be played out anymore, I fear for the future of this game.

SI1020
05-31-2013, 01:56 PM
Not with his contract. It wouldn't just be bad business for us. It would be bad for baseball. Suddenly, the days of large guaranteed contracts would be put at risk. As much as I'd like to see a salary cap in MLB, one of the attractions for teams in the long run is that they get fans to come out and see their stars produce for an extended period. Dunn should not be the player to ruin it for everyone. Believe it or not, most players are serviceable at worst for contracts like these. Has Soriano lived up to his deal every year with the Cubs? No. His defense has left something to be desired in years past. Still, most would love to have him on their team. The Cubs have been rather lucky to have him all this time.

If Adam Dunn is the reason blockbuster deals can't be played out anymore, I fear for the future of this game. If Adam Dunn should happen to get released I predict baseball will survive just fine.

BigKlu59
05-31-2013, 02:06 PM
2+ full seasons-

His "career" stats with the White Sox- .180 batting average, .305 OBP, .690 OPS, with 468 K's in 1124 ABs.

.159 BA in May- other than April/May 2012, no other months where he has hit > .204.

He's black hole in the middle of the line up- significant "addition by subtraction"- replace him with Keppinger as DH when Beckham returns or DH Viciedo and call up Danks.

I doubt Ventura, Hahn and KW have the stones to do it- but its time.

(it's also time to replace Flowers with Phegley, and Wise with Danks- too much dead weight on this roster)-


Shake it up.


Ok, sometimes you have to be a prick and say what needs to be said. EASY OUT !!! Unfortunately that out is coming from the batter that should be the most feared in the whole line up, historically speaking.

K's around 40% of the time. The damn ball is not even in play to move a runner in any way.. Ok. I'll take if the other 60% of the time he jacked one, or put the ball in play, but I dont think he's clubbed 600 home runs over the same time period,nor hit for average.

Sit Him... There comes a point where oppourtunity has been given to work on the art you were so blessed to compete with. As with any type of competancy for any skill in any position in life where the functioning of an organization is dependent on your best efforts, if you cant attain those, someone, even with a modest improvement, should replace you.

This signing has been a total bust. An "historically" total bust.


Anyone here have any rays of "Dunnshine" that he turns this thing around?


BK59

24thStFan
05-31-2013, 02:58 PM
They aren't going to release him. Forget about it. They do need to decrease his at-bats, IMO. I see two ways to do that. Both are reasonable:

Bench him against lefties. Bat him seventh or eighth against righties.

Right, do SOMETHING! This would make a difference to me (the casual fan) because it would at least show that they care. Right now all they do is tip the cap...I'm sick of it...try something.

Crestani
05-31-2013, 02:59 PM
Ok, sometimes you have to be a prick and say what needs to be said. EASY OUT !!! Unfortunately that out is coming from the batter that should be the most feared in the whole line up, historically speaking.

K's around 40% of the time. The damn ball is not even in play to move a runner in any way.. Ok. I'll take if the other 60% of the time he jacked one, or put the ball in play, but I dont think he's clubbed 600 home runs over the same time period,nor hit for average.

Sit Him... There comes a point where oppourtunity has been given to work on the art you were so blessed to compete with. As with any type of competancy for any skill in any position in life where the functioning of an organization is dependent on your best efforts, if you cant attain those, someone, even with a modest improvement, should replace you.

This signing has been a total bust. An "historically" total bust.


Anyone here have any rays of "Dunnshine" that he turns this thing around?


BK59


Ya think..??

doublem23
05-31-2013, 03:23 PM
Ok, sometimes you have to be a prick and say what needs to be said. EASY OUT !!! Unfortunately that out is coming from the batter that should be the most feared in the whole line up, historically speaking.


:rolling:

You can't actually think you're the first guy whose made these points

Huisj
05-31-2013, 04:11 PM
Not with his contract. It wouldn't just be bad business for us. It would be bad for baseball. Suddenly, the days of large guaranteed contracts would be put at risk. As much as I'd like to see a salary cap in MLB, one of the attractions for teams in the long run is that they get fans to come out and see their stars produce for an extended period. Dunn should not be the player to ruin it for everyone. Believe it or not, most players are serviceable at worst for contracts like these. Has Soriano lived up to his deal every year with the Cubs? No. His defense has left something to be desired in years past. Still, most would love to have him on their team. The Cubs have been rather lucky to have him all this time.

If Adam Dunn is the reason blockbuster deals can't be played out anymore, I fear for the future of this game.

So no former star player has ever been released in the middle of a contract before? That's a ridiculous thought.

If a guy with a 4 year medium sized contract gets released in year 3 of that contract after being historically bad since signing the deal, you think that will be the end of long term contracts? What trend do you see this triggering? Teams won't sign players? Players won't sign with teams? Teams will just start releasing guys willy-nilly? I'm not following you here.

Bobby Thigpen
05-31-2013, 04:30 PM
So no former star player has ever been released in the middle of a contract before? That's a ridiculous thought.

If a guy with a 4 year medium sized contract gets released in year 3 of that contract after being historically bad since signing the deal, you think that will be the end of long term contracts? What trend do you see this triggering? Teams won't sign players? Players won't sign with teams? Teams will just start releasing guys willy-nilly? I'm not following you here.
Name the last Sox player released in the middle of a 4 year contract.

Heck, name the last "star" player to get released in the middle of their contract. This isn't football.

kittle42
05-31-2013, 04:36 PM
Name the last Sox player released in the middle of a 4 year contract.

Heck, name the last "star" player to get released in the middle of their contract. This isn't football.

Right - guys don't get released like that in the guaranteed contract land of baseball. They either keep playing and getting peddled to other teams, or they languish on the bench til some desperate team needs a replacement because of injury.

These release things are as silly as the cried for DFA'ing everyone the past few years. Popular sentiment around these parts.

Brian26
05-31-2013, 04:46 PM
Name the last Sox player released in the middle of a 4 year contract.

Heck, name the last "star" player to get released in the middle of their contract. This isn't football.

The only guy I can come up with, and this is not even remotely close in magnitude, is/was Royce Clayton.

doublem23
05-31-2013, 04:48 PM
Not with his contract. It wouldn't just be bad business for us. It would be bad for baseball. Suddenly, the days of large guaranteed contracts would be put at risk. As much as I'd like to see a salary cap in MLB, one of the attractions for teams in the long run is that they get fans to come out and see their stars produce for an extended period. Dunn should not be the player to ruin it for everyone. Believe it or not, most players are serviceable at worst for contracts like these. Has Soriano lived up to his deal every year with the Cubs? No. His defense has left something to be desired in years past. Still, most would love to have him on their team. The Cubs have been rather lucky to have him all this time.

If Adam Dunn is the reason blockbuster deals can't be played out anymore, I fear for the future of this game.

what

Huisj
05-31-2013, 04:51 PM
Name the last Sox player released in the middle of a 4 year contract.

Heck, name the last "star" player to get released in the middle of their contract. This isn't football.

I didn't say the Sox had done it, and no, it's not usually guys who are currently stars, but rather guys who got too much money and took a nose dive. Bobby Bonilla comes to mind, and the Mets even paid him more over a long time to do it, though he kind of orchestrated that himself.

Carlos Silva was released by the Cubs with a year and $11.5 million left on his contract, though some of that was being paid by the Mariners.

I guess doing it with more than a year on a contract isn't common, but doing it going into the last year of a contract isn't unprecedented. Dunn's performance with his contract is rather unprecedented, so maybe he should be the exception to the 1-year-remaining release norm.

Huisj
05-31-2013, 05:04 PM
It's not quite the same, but Anaheim traded Gary Matthews Jr to the Mets along with $22.3 million of the 2 years and $23.4 million he still had left. The Mets then released him in June with a year and a half of that remaining. Obviously the Mets didn't car that they released him, because they didn't have to eat the money, but Anaheim got nothing back for him and ate two years of salary.

DSpivack
05-31-2013, 05:10 PM
It's not quite the same, but Anaheim traded Gary Matthews Jr to the Mets along with $22.3 million of the 2 years and $23.4 million he still had left. The Mets then released him in June with a year and a half of that remaining. Obviously the Mets didn't car that they released him, because they didn't have to eat the money, but Anaheim got nothing back for him and ate two years of salary.

That reminds me...

Who are the Mets 2 highest-paid OFs this season? Jason Bay. And Bobby Bonilla.

Huisj
05-31-2013, 05:13 PM
That reminds me...

Who are the Mets 2 highest-paid OFs this season? Jason Bay. And Bobby Bonilla.

And they released Bay which made them have to pay him $18 million this year and $3 million next year while Seattle pays him $1 million.

RKMeibalane
05-31-2013, 05:41 PM
Since we're not competing, releasing him wouldn't make sense. As his contract nears it's finish, if he gets hot enough, we might be able to get something for him.

He couldn't get hot enough if someone set him on fire.

RKMeibalane
05-31-2013, 05:42 PM
The only guy I can come up with, and this is not even remotely close in magnitude, is/was Royce Clayton.

Perhaps Dunn should sleep with Frank's ex and then wear sneakers in the dugout. That might do the trick. :cool:

WhiteSox5187
05-31-2013, 05:43 PM
The only guy I can come up with, and this is not even remotely close in magnitude, is/was Royce Clayton.

I've been trying to think of some too, off the top of my head I can think of Milton Bradley, Carlos Silva and Carlos Zambrano (but they might have been on the last years of their contracts), Chone Figgins. I am sure there are others that I am just completely blanking on.

russ99
05-31-2013, 05:56 PM
I still don't think it's unreasonable for the Sox to trade Dunn to a deep-pockets NL team, with the caveat being that we take back an equally bad contract in return.

Also, if we can wait until next July, I'm sure a contender would take a flyer on 3 months of his salary.

Cutting him just puts the Sox in a big hole financially, that would take years to dig out from.

IMO, if he's in the lineup Rios should bat after him, so he could at least get something to hit once in a while. Face it, he'll probably put up crappy numbers batting 3rd, 4th or 8th, so juggling makes little sense.

The Immigrant
05-31-2013, 06:00 PM
Cutting him just puts the Sox in a big hole financially, that would take years to dig out from.

The Sox have to pay him whether he's on the team or not. The financial hole is already there. The only additional cost would be the league minimum paid to his replacement.

amsteel
05-31-2013, 08:57 PM
It's a sunk cost. The difference between 23 and 25 mil is not much so release him and sign an a guy that has a WAR > -1 for 1.5 years at 2 Mil total and you've upgraded Dunn while only increasing his contract by around 9%.

BigKlu59
05-31-2013, 09:19 PM
:rolling:

You can't actually think you're the first guy whose made these points

No, cant claim that... On this board the knives came out early. I was one of the deluded few that thought, maybe, just maybe, I was watching somebody who could turn things around once so called "set backs" were overcome. The benefit given to the doubt has long since passed since then..

BK59

JB98
05-31-2013, 09:41 PM
Name the last Sox player released in the middle of a 4 year contract.

Heck, name the last "star" player to get released in the middle of their contract. This isn't football.

Not a "star" player or a Sox player, but I'll throw Russ Ortiz into the discussion.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2482960

He had $22 million left on his contract at the time the Diamondbacks cut him loose. Of course, that was six or seven years ago. Teams don't eat money like that too often.

Moses_Scurry
05-31-2013, 10:25 PM
Name the last Sox player released in the middle of a 4 year contract.

Heck, name the last "star" player to get released in the middle of their contract. This isn't football.

Wouldn't Andruw Jones being released from the Dodgers fall into this category? That's the first example that comes to my head.

SI1020
05-31-2013, 10:44 PM
No, cant claim that... On this board the knives came out early. I was one of the deluded few that thought, maybe, just maybe, I was watching somebody who could turn things around once so called "set backs" were overcome. The benefit given to the doubt has long since passed since then..

BK59 They come out early, often and mostly for no good reason. BTW I didn't take your post in the manner in which it was laughed at.

Falstaff
06-01-2013, 06:28 AM
Since he is not hitting, what about teaching him to throw a mean fastball.
He is a big guy like Jenks, maybe would surprise everyone and have something usable, at least in blown out games, to save the real pitchers for close games.
"Let Coop fix him"

kittle42
06-01-2013, 01:40 PM
They come out early, often and mostly for no good reason. BTW I didn't take your post in the manner in which it was laughed at.

Nor did I - as one of the folks often stabbing the knife.

TheVulture
06-01-2013, 02:00 PM
Exactly. Releasing Dunn does nothing for a team that really isn't much of anything as a whole, anyway.

It does something for the team, it gets Dunn off of it and it sends a message. Might as well give the bums in the minors a chance rather than have Dunn around setting a bad example and a standard of low expectations.

The notion that Dunn should be kept around in case the Sox might be able to get something for him is ludicrous. No way the Sox ever get jack for Dunn.

34rancher
06-01-2013, 02:24 PM
Exactly. Releasing Dunn does nothing for a team that really isn't much of anything as a whole, anyway.

Releasing Dunn frees up at bats and a spot position to develop either a young player or give another player a chance to prove what he can or cannot do. It also gets rid of a player who has one of the notoriously worst training regimes in the history of baseball and sends a message to younger players that they need to work in the offseason to be in shape and ready to go. He is a horrible bust that can only be debated with Navarro. At least with Navarro, we only had to see him every 5th day and we got something of value in return.
Adam Dunn: 0 playoff games and awful in when it counts.

pmck003
06-01-2013, 02:51 PM
He could still help with attendance and sales - have him sit in one of those water dunk tanks in the cf concourse; $1 a toss.

shingo10
06-01-2013, 03:19 PM
He could still help with attendance and sales - have him sit in one of those water dunk tanks in the cf concourse; $1 a toss.


The image that creates makes me laugh quite a bit. Think the line for that would be pretty long.

Unfortunately the DH position has been a complete disaster since the departure of Thome. Needs to be addressed.

BigKlu59
06-01-2013, 03:32 PM
He could still help with attendance and sales - have him sit in one of those water dunk tanks in the cf concourse; $1 a toss.

Get on the phone to Brooks.... Ladies and Gentleman we have a winner here.

I dont get baseball anymore... Did you guys see the shot of the dugout the other nite where Dunn is smiling and shooting the **** with Robin like they're best buds going over the idiocyncratic nuances of the game.. Never seen many .180 hitters so full of advice.. (A) "Now this is what I'd do in this situation".... (R) "Really?", "I've seen you in those situations and I've seen you not do a damn thing"...(A) (unfazed)..'You know, you really should send the runner".... (R) (rolls eyes upward and begins to think if he'd be playing today he could have been 40 Mil dollars richer playing on 1 leg and batting .250..

BK59

Lip Man 1
06-01-2013, 05:02 PM
Again guys, I can give you 23 million reasons why he isn't quitting and why JR won't release him.

It is what it is folks.

Doesn't mean I agree with it but remember what franchise you're talking about here.

Lip

voodoochile
06-01-2013, 06:43 PM
Again guys, I can give you 23 million reasons why he isn't quitting and why JR won't release him.

It is what it is folks.

Doesn't mean I agree with it but remember what franchise you're talking about here.

Lip

Okay can you name the organizations you think would bench or release him at this time? I can think of maybe 6... maybe...

Red Barchetta
06-01-2013, 07:19 PM
Again guys, I can give you 23 million reasons why he isn't quitting and why JR won't release him.

It is what it is folks.

Doesn't mean I agree with it but remember what franchise you're talking about here.

Lip

I agree. Despite the crappy average and approach, he's on pace for 48 HRs and over 100 RBIs. JR's not leaving that money on the table.

BigKlu59
06-01-2013, 07:57 PM
I agree. Despite the crappy average and approach, he's on pace for 48 HRs and over 100 RBIs. JR's not leaving that money on the table.

Where can I buy a ticket to watch that movie ? That would be one hell of a hollywood script.. Put the damn 'The Natural" to shame...

Gotta love baseball... it CAN turn on a dime..

BK59

Lip Man 1
06-01-2013, 08:23 PM
I agree. Despite the crappy average and approach, he's on pace for 48 HRs and over 100 RBIs. JR's not leaving that money on the table.

Red:

If you think he's going to finish with 48 home runs and over 100 RBI's you and I need to get together a make a friendly wager.

He can hit 55 home runs for all I care, he's killing this team because of the fact he is hitting.150 yet remains in the clean up role.

Voodoo:

That's six organizations then who place a higher priority on winning as opposed to how much a guy makes isn't it?

Again not ripping owenrship, I completely understand why they won't release him. I don't agree with the decision but it's not my money either.

Lip

DSpivack
06-01-2013, 09:04 PM
Red:

If you think he's going to finish with 48 home runs and over 100 RBI's you and I need to get together a make a friendly wager.

He can hit 55 home runs for all I care, he's killing this team because of the fact he is hitting.150 yet remains in the clean up role.

Voodoo:

That's six organizations then who place a higher priority on winning as opposed to how much a guy makes isn't it?

Again not ripping owenrship, I completely understand why they won't release him. I don't agree with the decision but it's not my money either.

Lip

Not sure where those numbers came from, either. His ESPN profile lists his projected numbers at 37 HRs, 89 RsBI, and 214 strikeouts.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/4808/adam-dunn

RKMeibalane
06-01-2013, 09:20 PM
Not sure where those numbers came from, either. His ESPN profile lists his projected numbers at 37 HRs, 89 RsBI, and 214 strikeouts.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/4808/adam-dunn

I don't think he approaches even those numbers (as bad as they are). He's not capable of putting together a prolonged productive stretch.

Red Barchetta
06-01-2013, 09:36 PM
Red:

If you think he's going to finish with 48 home runs and over 100 RBI's you and I need to get together a make a friendly wager.

He can hit 55 home runs for all I care, he's killing this team because of the fact he is hitting.150 yet remains in the clean up role.

Voodoo:

That's six organizations then who place a higher priority on winning as opposed to how much a guy makes isn't it?

Again not ripping owenrship, I completely understand why they won't release him. I don't agree with the decision but it's not my money either.

Lip

You guys are right and my math was wrong. I based it on 1/4 of the season being over instead of 1/3. Since we just started June, that would be 36 HRs and 87 RBIs. Not horrible stats, but pretty bad if you match up a .160 (ish) average and the $$$ they are paying him.

Still, JR will not flat out release him. He will have him throwing BP before he does that.

voodoochile
06-01-2013, 10:15 PM
Red:

If you think he's going to finish with 48 home runs and over 100 RBI's you and I need to get together a make a friendly wager.

He can hit 55 home runs for all I care, he's killing this team because of the fact he is hitting.150 yet remains in the clean up role.

Voodoo:

That's six organizations then who place a higher priority on winning as opposed to how much a guy makes isn't it?

Again not ripping owenrship, I completely understand why they won't release him. I don't agree with the decision but it's not my money either.

Lip

Releasing him makes no sense. I stand behind that statement. Moving him down in the order, okay, but what is gained by releasing him? Is there a better bat to put at DH? Is there a potential stud chomping at the bit in the minors who they can put at first and let Paulie DH?

Until those questions have answers in the affirmative, there's simply NO POINT in releasing Dunn. It's half an idea based purely on frustration, not on any chance to open a slot for someone who deserves it.

34rancher
06-02-2013, 07:56 AM
Releasing him makes no sense. I stand behind that statement. Moving him down in the order, okay, but what is gained by releasing him? Is there a better bat to put at DH? Is there a potential stud chomping at the bit in the minors who they can put at first and let Paulie DH?

Until those questions have answers in the affirmative, there's simply NO POINT in releasing Dunn. It's half an idea based purely on frustration, not on any chance to open a slot for someone who deserves it.

I understand what you are saying. But do we lose anything by releasing him? Can any young hitter be worse?

TomBradley72
06-02-2013, 09:53 AM
Releasing him makes no sense. I stand behind that statement. Moving him down in the order, okay, but what is gained by releasing him? Is there a better bat to put at DH? Is there a potential stud chomping at the bit in the minors who they can put at first and let Paulie DH?

Until those questions have answers in the affirmative, there's simply NO POINT in releasing Dunn. It's half an idea based purely on frustration, not on any chance to open a slot for someone who deserves it.

It's not based purely on frustration.

It's based on an aging DH who has now been hitting .180 for 2+ seasons (14 months of regular season baseball).

There are pitchers in the NL who are better hitters than our DH.

He's now hitting .157 for 2013- 2 points BELOW the 2011 season when they had to sit him down for the last month of the season to avoid having the worst hitting season of any player in the history of MLB.

2012 was a mirage- after Memorial Day, he hit .191, he hit .212 w/RISP.

In my opinion, he's not "slumping", he's not going to "come out of it" (either to help the Sox or generate value for a trade), and just about any alternative is better than the current situation.

I also think this will be 'addition by subtraction" for the clubhouse/team chemistry- not because Dunn is bad guy- he seems to be a great guy- but when someone is failing at the epic level of Dunn's failure- it permeates the rest of a team/organization.

He doesn't bring any value off the bench, he's not going to get better, he's not going to help the Sox for 2013 or 2014- so release him and him move on.

Vs. RHs- Jordan Danks in LF (or in CF, move De Aza to LF) & DH Viciedo, Vs. LH- Keppinger DHs (after Beckham returns), Viciedo back to LF.

Not great alternatives- but an improvement- and at least your defense gets a little better, you're a little more athletic on the bases, and you're giving a young player (Danks) a shot to see if he should be part of your plans for 2014 (replace De Aza).

SCCWS
06-02-2013, 12:35 PM
It's not based purely on frustration.

It's based on an aging DH who has now been hitting .180 for 2+ seasons (14 months of regular season baseball).

There are pitchers in the NL who are better hitters than our DH.

He's now hitting .157 for 2013- 2 points BELOW the 2011 season when they had to sit him down for the last month of the season to avoid having the worst hitting season of any player in the history of MLB.

2012 was a mirage- after Memorial Day, he hit .191, he hit .212 w/RISP.

In my opinion, he's not "slumping", he's not going to "come out of it" (either to help the Sox or generate value for a trade), and just about any alternative is better than the current situation.

I also think this will be 'addition by subtraction" for the clubhouse/team chemistry- not because Dunn is bad guy- he seems to be a great guy- but when someone is failing at the epic level of Dunn's failure- it permeates the rest of a team/organization.

He doesn't bring any value off the bench, he's not going to get better, he's not going to help the Sox for 2013 or 2014- so release him and him move on.

Vs. RHs- Jordan Danks in LF (or in CF, move De Aza to LF) & DH Viciedo, Vs. LH- Keppinger DHs (after Beckham returns), Viciedo back to LF.

Not great alternatives- but an improvement- and at least your defense gets a little better, you're a little more athletic on the bases, and you're giving a young player (Danks) a shot to see if he should be part of your plans for 2014 (replace De Aza).

Rather than release him and get nothing, why not trade him for a prospect and pay his salary. Some team will take a chance that a change of scenery may help him since he would be free.May be better than pay him to sit home----try and get a prospect for him.

TomBradley72
06-02-2013, 12:38 PM
Rather than release him and get nothing, why not trade him for a prospect and pay his salary. Some team will take a chance that a change of scenery may help him since he would be free.May be better than pay him to sit home----try and get a prospect for him.

I don't see us getting much of a prospect for an aging .180 hitter- but if its possible- I agree with you.

voodoochile
06-02-2013, 12:48 PM
I don't see us getting much of a prospect for an aging .180 hitter- but if its possible- I agree with you.

If they eat the salary that might get them something. Might be an AL team thinks a DH who can hit 25 HR between now and October could help him or that a change of scenery would help. Might even be a NL team in need of a new 1B figures playing the field would allow Dunn to get his head right.

Trading is something I could understand even if they don't get much. Releasing is simply a bad idea.

Edit: And even if the young player could out hit Dunn, is it the right move for that player? Only thing I could think makes sense is to DH Tank and put Wise or Danks in LF. Still not sure it's the best idea, but at least the defense would improve.

Carolina Kenny
06-03-2013, 08:54 AM
It's not based purely on frustration.

It's based on an aging DH who has now been hitting .180 for 2+ seasons (14 months of regular season baseball).

There are pitchers in the NL who are better hitters than our DH.

He's now hitting .157 for 2013- 2 points BELOW the 2011 season when they had to sit him down for the last month of the season to avoid having the worst hitting season of any player in the history of MLB.

2012 was a mirage- after Memorial Day, he hit .191, he hit .212 w/RISP.

In my opinion, he's not "slumping", he's not going to "come out of it" (either to help the Sox or generate value for a trade), and just about any alternative is better than the current situation.

I also think this will be 'addition by subtraction" for the clubhouse/team chemistry- not because Dunn is bad guy- he seems to be a great guy- but when someone is failing at the epic level of Dunn's failure- it permeates the rest of a team/organization.

He doesn't bring any value off the bench, he's not going to get better, he's not going to help the Sox for 2013 or 2014- so release him and him move on.

Vs. RHs- Jordan Danks in LF (or in CF, move De Aza to LF) & DH Viciedo, Vs. LH- Keppinger DHs (after Beckham returns), Viciedo back to LF.

Not great alternatives- but an improvement- and at least your defense gets a little better, you're a little more athletic on the bases, and you're giving a young player (Danks) a shot to see if he should be part of your plans for 2014 (replace De Aza).

Not a bad idea, except that JorDanks can't hit.

TomBradley72
06-03-2013, 09:12 AM
Not a bad idea, except that JorDanks can't hit.

Details, details. :cool:

Well- he's established himself as a .300 hitter at AAA- might as well use this year to give him one final shot.

wassagstdu
06-03-2013, 12:16 PM
I cannot support a team that accepts the record awful performance and self-centered approach of Adam Dunn. "Only one stat matters:W", remember? As long as he is trotted out every day the message to fans and teammates is that management thinks that bull**** is acceptable. Until he is gone I am gone.

Jerko
06-03-2013, 12:25 PM
I cannot support a team that accepts the record awful performance and self-centered approach of Adam Dunn. "Only one stat matters:W", remember? As long as he is trotted out every day the message to fans and teammates is that management thinks that bull**** is acceptable. Until he is gone I am gone.

I'm starting to agree with this. I know the rest of the hitters outside of Gillaspie and Rios suck too, but seeing this big goof trotted out there in the 4 or 5 hole EVERY day is starting to gall me.

Rocky Soprano
06-03-2013, 12:26 PM
I cannot support a team that accepts the record awful performance and self-centered approach of Adam Dunn. "Only one stat matters:W", remember? As long as he is trotted out every day the message to fans and teammates is that management thinks that bull**** is acceptable. Until he is gone I am gone.

:rolleyes:

Let me get this straight. If the Sox release him and plug in ANYONE else, even if the production is worse, that would be acceptable and a good thing?

We are stuck with Dunn, the Sox are not going to release him and continue to pay him. The Sox have no better options in the minor leagues and no other team would EVER take him in a trade.

Rocky Soprano
06-03-2013, 12:30 PM
I'm starting to agree with this. I know the rest of the hitters outside of Gillaspie and Rios suck too, but seeing this big goof trotted out there in the 4 or 5 hole EVERY day is starting to gall me.

Get Dunn out of the 4 or 5 hole, that's at least a logical argument. I just don't see the logic in begging for Dunn to be released when there is absolutely no one that Sox have to plug in his place. At least make Dunn "work" for his paycheck.

Jerko
06-03-2013, 12:39 PM
Get Dunn out of the 4 or 5 hole, that's at least a logical argument. I just don't see the logic in begging for Dunn to be released when there is absolutely no one that Sox have to plug in his place. At least make Dunn "work" for his paycheck.

Most fans just want to see him gone obvously. Even if his replacement is as bad or worse, at least it's not him. Sometimes fan-bases get like that with certain players. Thome could come back tomorrow and put up the same exact numbers but nobody would say boo. I know every time I'm at the game, I feel like somebody is stealing my money when Dunn comes up to the plate.

Rocky Soprano
06-03-2013, 12:44 PM
Most fans just want to see him gone obvously. Even if his replacement is as bad or worse, at least it's not him. Sometimes fan-bases get like that with certain players. Thome could come back tomorrow and put up the same exact numbers but nobody would say boo. I know every time I'm at the game, I feel like somebody is stealing my money when Dunn comes up to the plate.

I completely understand that fans are sick of seeing him in the lineup. Ultimately, the fans want the Sox to succeed. I would also be asking for Dunn to be released if there was an option out there that would help our team win. Unfortunately there just isn't. It's sad but the truth.

voodoochile
06-03-2013, 12:50 PM
Most fans just want to see him gone obvously. Even if his replacement is as bad or worse, at least it's not him. Sometimes fan-bases get like that with certain players. Thome could come back tomorrow and put up the same exact numbers but nobody would say boo. I know every time I'm at the game, I feel like somebody is stealing my money when Dunn comes up to the plate.

I'm testing that theory right now:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=138225

Golden Sox
06-07-2013, 11:25 AM
I've already talked to somebody who works for the White Sox and he told me that unless Dunn hits better the rest of the season, he won't be on the team next year. Even if the White Sox have to eat the last year of his contract, he won't be here in 2014. That being said, it looks like the White Sox will have 4 holes to fill next year. We will need a new DH, 1B, LF, and Catcher. This should be a very interesting off season. I would love to see the White Sox sign Seattles first baseman, Morales who's a free agent at the end of the year.

quadcitiesfan
06-09-2013, 09:40 PM
Can we send him down to triple A? Maybe this would send a message.:angry:

Lip Man 1
06-09-2013, 11:50 PM
Don't think he can be sent down unless he's injured without his consent.

Lip

TaylorStSox
06-10-2013, 12:00 AM
I wonder if a team has ever sent down their leader in HR/BB/2nd in RBI's down in June.

CoopaLoop
06-10-2013, 07:30 AM
What is the benefit of releasing Adam Dunn other than fans can stop crying about him?

None. He isn't stealing playing time from anyone worth a damn.

WhiteSox5187
06-10-2013, 08:02 PM
I wonder if a team has ever sent down their leader in HR/BB/2nd in RBI's down in June.

Most players who lead their teams in those categories aren't hitting .165 with a .264 OBP either.

Boondock Saint
06-10-2013, 08:37 PM
What is the benefit of releasing Adam Dunn other than fans can stop crying about him?

None. He isn't stealing playing time from anyone worth a damn.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

PaleHoser
06-10-2013, 10:48 PM
So I told my 13 year-old son the story of one-armed Pete Gray, who played for the St. Louis Browns in 1945. Of course he immediately replied "He had a higher batting average than Adam Dunn, right?". Yep...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/graype01.shtml

lizard6king6
06-10-2013, 10:51 PM
Lookin good tonight at least.

Boondock Saint
06-10-2013, 10:52 PM
That's why you don't replace him with some AAA nobody.

mzh
06-10-2013, 11:00 PM
Replacing actual big leaguers, bad as they may be, with minor league fodder just because they 'can't be any worse' is exactly how you end up with the 2007 White Sox. At least Adam Dunn will still give us 40-odd HR by the time the season is played out. In a down year like this one I'll take that over watching Andy Gonzalez, Luis Terrero and Danny Richar any day of the week.

Boondock Saint
06-10-2013, 11:05 PM
Replacing actual big leaguers, bad as they may be, with minor league fodder just because they 'can't be any worse' is exactly how you end up with the 2007 White Sox. At least Adam Dunn will still give us 40-odd HR by the time the season is played out. In a down year like this one I'll take that over watching Andy Gonzalez, Luis Terrero and Danny Richar any day of the week.

Come on, man. That wound was finally healing.

TheVulture
06-10-2013, 11:07 PM
What is the benefit of releasing Adam Dunn other than fans can stop crying about him?


I guess it would seem like there is no point to a person who just looks at a sheet of stats, but to the person who acknowledges the mental aspect of game the benefit is obvious.

Lip Man 1
06-10-2013, 11:14 PM
Lookin good tonight at least.

Well even a broken clock is right twice a day... :tongue:

Lip

mzh
06-10-2013, 11:21 PM
Come on, man. That wound was finally healing.
Jerry Owens! Andy Sisco! Ryan Bukvich! The immortal Dewon Day!

I think I've made everyone here feel just a little better about the 2013 White Sox :tongue:

Boondock Saint
06-10-2013, 11:25 PM
Jerry Owens! Andy Sisco! Ryan Bukvich! The immortal Dewon Day!

I think I've made everyone here feel just a little better about the 2013 White Sox :tongue:

I still have nightmares of him being brought in to face Alex Rodriguez with the bases loaded.

The Immigrant
06-10-2013, 11:43 PM
Replacing actual big leaguers, bad as they may be, with minor league fodder just because they 'can't be any worse' is exactly how you end up with the 2007 White Sox. At least Adam Dunn will still give us 40-odd HR by the time the season is played out. In a down year like this one I'll take that over watching Andy Gonzalez, Luis Terrero and Danny Richar any day of the week.

Seriously, how does a big market franchise ever let a year like that happen, much less so soon after winning a World Series?

all*star quentin
06-10-2013, 11:56 PM
Well even a broken clock is right twice a day... :tongue:

Lip

Reinsdorf and Hahn watching from the suite. I'm sure their presence is a motivating factor for Dunn. :redneck

ZombieRob
06-10-2013, 11:58 PM
Dunn is having a better year then Konerko. Amazing

CoopaLoop
06-11-2013, 12:45 AM
I guess it would seem like there is no point to a person who just looks at a sheet of stats, but to the person who acknowledges the mental aspect of game the benefit is obvious.

Your what hurts?

voodoochile
06-11-2013, 12:52 AM
Seriously, how does a big market franchise ever let a year like that happen, much less so soon after winning a World Series?

They got wrecked by injuries that year...

Boondock Saint
06-11-2013, 12:56 AM
They got wrecked by injuries that year...

Yes they did. Even the scrubs they brought in to replace the guys who got injured got injured.

edit: Also, the bullpen got dismantled and imploded simultaneously.

voodoochile
06-11-2013, 12:59 AM
Yes they did. Even the scrubs they brought in to replace the guys who got injured got injured.

edit: Also, the bullpen got dismantled and imploded simultaneously.

That was Kenny's bunch of young dudes who throw hard out experiment wasn't it? IIRC it led to the infamous, "greatest bullpen in league history" thread in early May or something. Shortly after that they fell off a cliff and just kept falling...

CoopaLoop
06-11-2013, 01:01 AM
They got wrecked by injuries that year...

They did, but the plan to start the season was Jerry Owens and Darrin Erstad 1-2 no?

Boondock Saint
06-11-2013, 01:03 AM
That was Kenny's bunch of young dudes who throw hard out experiment wasn't it? IIRC it led to the infamous, "greatest bullpen in league history" thread in early May or something. Shortly after that they fell off a cliff and just kept falling...

Yep. Sisco, Aardsma, Bukvich and MacDougal, among others.

Boondock Saint
06-11-2013, 01:05 AM
They did, but the plan to start the season was Jerry Owens and Darrin Erstad 1-2 no?

I think Owens was one of the replacements, but I might be wrong.

voodoochile
06-11-2013, 01:08 AM
I think Owens was one of the replacements, but I might be wrong.

I checked the stats. They still had Pods... and Mackowiack...:tongue:

Boondock Saint
06-11-2013, 01:10 AM
I checked the stats. They still had Pods... and Mackowiack...:tongue:

That's right, I remember now, Ozzie initially planned to use Pods (or Erstad, I can't remember which) in CF, then when that didn't work, he went to Mack. And that led to Owens and Terrero.

CoopaLoop
06-11-2013, 01:23 AM
I think Owens was one of the replacements, but I might be wrong.

I checked the stats. They still had Pods... and Mackowiack...:tongue:

Opening day lineup had Ozuna leading off and Erstad 2nd.

doublem23
06-11-2013, 07:10 AM
Jerry Owens! Andy Sisco! Ryan Bukvich! The immortal Dewon Day!

I think I've made everyone here feel just a little better about the 2013 White Sox :tongue:

Oh god, I had forgotten completely about Dewon Day...

doublem23
06-11-2013, 07:13 AM
Seriously, how does a big market franchise ever let a year like that happen, much less so soon after winning a World Series?

I don't know, look at the number of stiffs that took the field for the Red Sox last year...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2012.shtml

Dan H
06-11-2013, 08:53 AM
Dunn is having a better year then Konerko. Amazing

It is amazing. What is more amazing is that the Sox offense will go as far as Adam Dunn will take it.

The Immigrant
06-11-2013, 09:22 AM
I don't know, look at the number of stiffs that took the field for the Red Sox last year...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2012.shtml

Ouch. Had no idea things got that bad in Boston last year.

TomBradley72
06-11-2013, 01:59 PM
Maybe the back spasms in LAA had a real impact- over the last 28 days- he's hitting .244 with a .945 OPS-

35th and Shields
06-11-2013, 03:50 PM
It's great to see Dunn go through this hot streak, but let's not kidd ourselves, it's just a hot streak. he's bound to get cold again and everyone will go back to wanting him cut. Dunn can be a valuable asset to a team. The issue is that he cannot be relied upon to be #3 or #4 hitter for a team hoping to contend.

Frater Perdurabo
06-12-2013, 12:00 PM
Does anyone know where to find any information on how many hits the defensive shift has cost Dunn?

Did opposing teams shift on him as much when he played in the NL?

kittle42
06-12-2013, 12:40 PM
I see this thread has died down. Any minor leaguer can do better than Dunn!

WhiteSox5187
06-12-2013, 01:48 PM
I see this thread has died down. Any minor leaguer can do better than Dunn!

Releasing him was always a bad idea because he does go on these hot streaks periodically but then he has much more prolonged streaks where he looks lost. The guy has been with us for two whole years now and I think has a .180 something average with us, I'm not sure off hand what is OBP or OPS is but I believe his OBP is under .300 and his OPS is probably in the low 700s. My own hope is that there is some team desperate enough for offense (Pittsburgh maybe? I don't know) that they will take a gamble on him and we can trade him for something, we'd have to eat a lot of his salary though.

eriqjaffe
06-12-2013, 01:56 PM
the guy has been with us for two whole years now and i think has a .180 something average with us, i'm not sure off hand what is obp or ops is but i believe his obp is under .300 and his ops is probably in the low 700s..184/.309/.706.

mahagga73
06-12-2013, 06:09 PM
I see this thread has died down. Any minor leaguer can do better than Dunn!

Why would they get rid of the only hitter in our lineup besides Rios and to some extent De Aza and Gilaspie with a pulse? Ramirez , Flowers , Peavy, back the truck up. I like Peavy, but if he comes back and looks ok , and they get offered anything for him, he has got to go. Floyd too. Peavy can't and probably will not ever again stay healthy.

Lip Man 1
06-12-2013, 11:36 PM
Floyd is a free agent after the season so in Hawk's words, "he gone..."

Lip

russ99
06-12-2013, 11:47 PM
As much as we all would like to see Dunn released, it ain't gonna happen, at least this season. Jerry might eat a partial year, or send cash in a final-year trade sometime next season.

But that doesn't mean the Sox should just roll over. How about sending Flowers and Viciedo down and bringing up Phegley and Danks? Dunn has had a few good ABs this week and his walks are up, but if he drops again, bench him.

The message that players can turn in such a poor compete level and performance at the plate and in the field and keep their "play every day" jobs has to change for this team to move forward.

Golden Sox
06-13-2013, 10:29 AM
I'm thrilled beyond belief when Dunn goes on one of his hot streaks. I'm usually happy when he just hits the ball. If he can continue his present hot hitting I'm hoping the White Sox will be able to move him to another team. I don't care if we don't get anything for him. Just get rid of him. We can use the money for some other free agent. Morales of Seattle would look good in a White Sox uniform next year.

kittle42
06-13-2013, 10:58 AM
Somehow getting rid of Dunn, Konerko, Peavy, Ramirez, and even Rios would be such a windfall - as long as the return isn't Nestor ****ing Molina or Jhonny Nunez. Man, KW sucked sometimes.

eriqjaffe
06-13-2013, 11:19 AM
Somehow getting rid of Dunn, Konerko, Peavy, Ramirez, and even Rios would be such a windfall - as long as the return isn't Nestor ****ing Molina or Jhonny Nunez. Man, KW sucked sometimes.That just wasn't his strength. KW had a lot of luck getting good performance out of players he picked up from the scrap heap and getting good value for prospects. He rarely seemed to do well when acquiring prospects - selling high really seemed to be a foreign concept to him.

#1swisher
06-13-2013, 02:45 PM
As much as we all would like to see Dunn released, it ain't gonna happen, at least this season. Jerry might eat a partial year, or send cash in a final-year trade sometime next season.

But that doesn't mean the Sox should just roll over. How about sending Flowers and Viciedo down and bringing up Phegley and Danks? Dunn has had a few good ABs this week and his walks are up, but if he drops again, bench him.

The message that players can turn in such a poor compete level and performance at the plate and in the field and keep their "play every day" jobs has to change for this team to move forward.


Jordan is up and was in the starting lineup on June 7th.
https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/343104458022080512/photo/1

BigKlu59
06-13-2013, 03:57 PM
I'm thrilled beyond belief when Dunn goes on one of his hot streaks. I'm usually happy when he just hits the ball. If he can continue his present hot hitting I'm hoping the White Sox will be able to move him to another team. I don't care if we don't get anything for him. Just get rid of him. We can use the money for some other free agent. Morales of Seattle would look good in a White Sox uniform next year.

Thats all I ask for as well... I dont expect a HR each at bat, just put the damn ball in play and let the chips fall where they may. Nice to see him have some BP against Dickey the other night..

Funny, but if he were to hover at .250, that alone would be a world of difference.. Just that 1 hit over 4 ABs would make a huge difference..

BK59

balke
06-14-2013, 08:17 AM
I find it funny that the Sox cut ties with Frank Thomas when he was injured and declining. Even in 2005 when he could only get 35 games in - he had a .905 OPS.

Swamp Donkey hasn't sniffed that with the Sox. 3 years later Frank was cut from the Blue Jays after 16 games for putting up the type of numbers that Dunn has these past 3 seasons.

35th and Shields
06-14-2013, 09:27 AM
I find it funny that the Sox cut ties with Frank Thomas when he was injured and declining. Even in 2005 when he could only get 35 games in - he had a .905 OPS.

Swamp Donkey hasn't sniffed that with the Sox. 3 years later Frank was cut from the Blue Jays after 16 games for putting up the type of numbers that Dunn has these past 3 seasons.

$$$$$

SephClone89
06-14-2013, 10:37 AM
I find it funny that the Sox cut ties with Frank Thomas when he was injured and declining. Even in 2005 when he could only get 35 games in - he had a .905 OPS.

Swamp Donkeyhasn't sniffed that with the Sox. 3 years later Frank was cut from the Blue Jays after 16 games for putting up the type of numbers that Dunn has these past 3 seasons.

...

TDog
06-14-2013, 10:42 AM
I find it funny that the Sox cut ties with Frank Thomas when he was injured and declining. Even in 2005 when he could only get 35 games in - he had a .905 OPS.

Swamp Donkey hasn't sniffed that with the Sox. 3 years later Frank was cut from the Blue Jays after 16 games for putting up the type of numbers that Dunn has these past 3 seasons.

How are the two positions even relevant to one another? The White Sox didn't re-sign Thomas after he only managed 35 games near the end of his career, concerned for his health as well as his declining skills. The A's signed him but didn't sign him after the season, concerned for his health and diminishing skills for what he was asking. The Blue Jays signed him but let him go back to the A's, picking up most of his salary, in his second season because of his diminishing skills. The A's saw the skills diminished, and no one had any interest in Thomas after that. The Blue Jays have dumped some big contracts. Vernon Wells and Alex Rios could have been much worse financially, though, and the Blue Jays aren't exactly a 21st century model franchise.

The White Sox signed Dunn in what was supposed to be the peak years of his career, not believing he had issues of health or diminishing skills. He only signed the one contract. If in the last year of that contract he only plays 35 games, I doubt the White Sox will re-sign him.

The White Sox didn't cut Thomas before his contract was up. The White Sox haven't cut Dunn with time left on his contract. I see only consistency.

kittle42
06-14-2013, 11:39 AM
How are the two positions even relevant to one another? The White Sox didn't re-sign Thomas after he only managed 35 games near the end of his career, concerned for his health as well as his declining skills. The A's signed him but didn't sign him after the season, concerned for his health and diminishing skills for what he was asking. The Blue Jays signed him but let him go back to the A's, picking up most of his salary, in his second season because of his diminishing skills. The A's saw the skills diminished, and no one had any interest in Thomas after that. The Blue Jays have dumped some big contracts. Vernon Wells and Alex Rios could have been much worse financially, though, and the Blue Jays aren't exactly a 21st century model franchise.

The White Sox signed Dunn in what was supposed to be the peak years of his career, not believing he had issues of health or diminishing skills. He only signed the one contract. If in the last year of that contract he only plays 35 games, I doubt the White Sox will re-sign him.

The White Sox didn't cut Thomas before his contract was up. The White Sox haven't cut Dunn with time left on his contract. I see only consistency.

Excellent post, pointing out the flaws in the original contention.

doublem23
06-14-2013, 12:17 PM
The White Sox signed Dunn in what was supposed to be the peak years of his career, not believing he had issues of health or diminishing skills. He only signed the one contract. If in the last year of that contract he only plays 35 games, I doubt the White Sox will re-sign him.

I've got a feeling that even if Adam plays 162 games in 2014, he won't be back with the Sox for the 2015 season.

kittle42
06-14-2013, 12:43 PM
I've got a feeling that even if Adam plays 162 games in 2014, he won't be back with the Sox for the 2015 season.

He'll either get traded based on performance, or they'll let him walk. No question, IMO.

TDog
06-14-2013, 04:11 PM
I've got a feeling that even if Adam plays 162 games in 2014, he won't be back with the Sox for the 2015 season.

I am guessing that Dunn's 2014 season would have to include at least three miracles in addition to strong offensive numbers for the White Sox to re-sign him.

doublem23
06-14-2013, 04:22 PM
I am guessing that Dunn's 2014 season would have to include at least three miracles in addition to strong offensive numbers for the White Sox to re-sign him.

Maybe JR will die and he'll buy the team.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mlb/players/full/4808.png&w=350&h=254
Say hello to your DH For Life!

soxfanreggie
06-15-2013, 08:38 AM
I am guessing that Dunn's 2014 season would have to include at least three miracles in addition to strong offensive numbers for the White Sox to re-sign him.

Would one of the miracles be a salary under $5 million and a BA over .220?

slavko
06-15-2013, 10:53 PM
Never mentioned this before, but I ran across a really ancient Sox near-great at an event in June 2011, guy probably didn't make $1M in his career. You should have heard him go off on Dunn, esp. after I told him the deal was for $56M/4 years. Not much has changed since then.

Don't think these guys from another era don't remain Sox fans for the rest of their lives. It becomes part of you.

Dan H
06-16-2013, 07:52 AM
I never thought I'd say this but I have started to think that Adam Dunn is the least of this team's problems.

Red Barchetta
06-16-2013, 11:00 AM
I never thought I'd say this but I have started to think that Adam Dunn is the least of this team's problems.

I agree. Konerko is not exactly lighting it up either.

This team is old and bad. I really wish a new "Larry Himes" era would begin. It seemed like the SOX farm system was producing a new star every season back then. McDowell, Ventura, Thomas...

Lip Man 1
06-16-2013, 12:47 PM
Don't forget Fernandez but remember those players came at a cost.

Four straight losing seasons and five losing seasons out of six.

If you are willing to accept bad seasons for the right to get a very high pick that's how it comes about.

Personally I never thought I'd say this but I'm leaning in that direction PROVIDED new ownership / new front office is brought in.

Otherwise you run the risk of the same folks who have butchered the farm system the past decade making the same errors judgment-wise on draft picks.

Lip

TheVulture
06-16-2013, 02:17 PM
If you are willing to accept bad seasons for the right to get a very high pick that's how it comes about.

Lip

Looks like we've got at least one of those coming our way. If the Sox can't even beat the Astros, we should be looking at a top 5 pick next year easily. We're lined up for six already.

Golden Sox
06-19-2013, 04:02 PM
Last nights 7-5 loss to the Twins showed why Dunn should no longer be on the White Sox. In the first inning Beckham was charged with a throwing error. And yeah it was a bad throw but even Steve Stone pointed out that Konerko would of caught the ball. Dunn didn't. Dunn missed a throw in the dirt which most first basemen would of caught. Dunn can't do anything except hit a home run every now and then. He can't hit for average. He can't run, throw or catch a baseball. When he was in his last year of his contract in Washington one of the Toronto writers asked the Toronto GM about the possibilties of the Blue Jays signing Dunn at the end of the year. His response was no, he wasn't interested. He said Dunn had never done one thing to improve his baseball skills in all the years he played. The story was printed and the Toronto GM was forced to apologize about his remarks about Dunn. I posted once before by saying that I'm just happy when Dunn hits the ball. I'm happier when Dunn catches the ball when he's playing first base. I will be happiest when Dunn is longer a member of the White Sox. I'm fairly confident that this will be the last year for Dunn on the Southside of Chicago.

SCCWS
06-19-2013, 06:28 PM
Last nights 7-5 loss to the Twins showed why Dunn should no longer be on the White Sox. In the first inning Beckham was charged with a throwing error. And yeah it was a bad throw but even Steve Stone pointed out that Konerko would of caught the ball. Dunn didn't. Dunn missed a throw in the dirt which most first basemen would of caught. Dunn can't do anything except hit a home run every now and then. He can't hit for average. He can't run, throw or catch a baseball. When he was in his last year of his contract in Washington one of the Toronto writers asked the Toronto GM about the possibilties of the Blue Jays signing Dunn at the end of the year. His response was no, he wasn't interested. He said Dunn had never done one thing to improve his baseball skills in all the years he played. The story was printed and the Toronto GM was forced to apologize about his remarks about Dunn. I posted once before by saying that I'm just happy when Dunn hits the ball. I'm happier when Dunn catches the ball when he's playing first base. I will be happiest when Dunn is longer a member of the White Sox. I'm fairly confident that this will be the last year for Dunn on the Southside of Chicago.

Golden: You list all Dunn's shortcomings. But then you say you are confident he will not be back. If he is terrible, who is going to take him and his huge salary?? Do you really think Hahn is going to convince management to eat his $14 mil??? I think the only hope( a real longshot) is the Sox convince someone to take him but still pay the bulk of his salary. That probably means they replace him with a real cheap option or hold on and hope somehow he has a better year next year. Kind of damned if you do.........................

TomBradley72
06-19-2013, 07:33 PM
Golden: You list all Dunn's shortcomings. But then you say you are confident he will not be back. If he is terrible, who is going to take him and his huge salary?? Do you really think Hahn is going to convince management to eat his $14 mil??? I think the only hope( a real longshot) is the Sox convince someone to take him but still pay the bulk of his salary. That probably means they replace him with a real cheap option or hold on and hope somehow he has a better year next year. Kind of damned if you do.........................

I believe even the White Sox will eat the last year of his contract- vs. bringing him back for a 4th tortuous season of this nightmare contact.

SCCWS
06-19-2013, 09:19 PM
I believe even the White Sox will eat the last year of his contract- vs. bringing him back for a 4th tortuous season of this nightmare contact.

Sounds like Kenny Williams disagrees:

"Dunn still has one more season remaining on his four-year deal and with Konerko possibly moving on after this year, he could end up taking over at first base, for one season anyway. While the returns haven't been what the White Sox expected, Williams isn't going to call Dunn a bust.

"First and foremost he was a good hitter, a guy who got on base, a guy that took the ball to the opposite field and drove in runs," Williams said. "Everybody can get away from their game no matter what the sport is, and he got away from it a little bit, but it's really encouraging to see how he's going about his business now."

DSpivack
06-19-2013, 09:27 PM
Sounds like Kenny Williams disagrees:

"Dunn still has one more season remaining on his four-year deal and with Konerko possibly moving on after this year, he could end up taking over at first base, for one season anyway. While the returns haven't been what the White Sox expected, Williams isn't going to call Dunn a bust.

"First and foremost he was a good hitter, a guy who got on base, a guy that took the ball to the opposite field and drove in runs," Williams said. "Everybody can get away from their game no matter what the sport is, and he got away from it a little bit, but it's really encouraging to see how he's going about his business now."

When did he say this? And where?

SCCWS
06-19-2013, 10:08 PM
When did he say this? And where?


http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/15681/williams-wont-call-dunn-a-free-agent-bust

Golden Sox
06-19-2013, 11:25 PM
To say "that Dunn got away from his game a little bit" has to be the understatement of the century. I already wish that this season was over with. If Dunn is back next year, I'm already looking forward to the 2015 season.

Mr. Jinx
06-19-2013, 11:34 PM
To say "that Dunn got away from his game a little bit" has to be the understatement of the century. I already wish that this season was over with. If Dunn is back next year, I'm already looking forward to the 2015 season.

Adam Dunn playing or not playing for the White Sox will be one of the least crucial things that determines the fate of the 2014 Sox.

DSpivack
06-19-2013, 11:41 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/15681/williams-wont-call-dunn-a-free-agent-bust

Thanks for the link.

Danryan
06-19-2013, 11:54 PM
Dunn is simply the most demoralizing player that I can remember with the White Sox. There have been many poor players, however, none with such a contract, expectations, and in the lineup everyday. I don't know if they will keep him, trade him, or buy him out. I do know they can never move forward with him.

SI1020
06-20-2013, 12:06 AM
Dunn is simply the most demoralizing player that I can remember with the White Sox. There have been many poor players, however, none with such a contract, expectations, and in the lineup everyday. I don't know if they will keep him, trade him, or buy him out. I do know they can never move forward with him. I agree completely. He's a giant boat anchor.

white sox bill
06-25-2013, 05:06 PM
He reminds me of this 73 acre plot of farm land that my siblings and I inherited after my Moms death. We cant move it w/o taking a huge bath. Like Dunn, its a white elephant