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thomas35forever
05-29-2013, 04:33 PM
3 homers to Navarro? Really?

Crestani
05-29-2013, 04:35 PM
3 homers to Navarro? Really?


Adam Dunn need not apply...!!!

kittle42
05-29-2013, 04:35 PM
Thrilling. Navarro had a HR for every Dunn K. At that rate, he could hit 250 HRs this season.

aryzner
05-29-2013, 04:36 PM
Only the White Sox could give up 3 HRs to Dioner Navarro. It's actually pretty funny if you think about it. :D:

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2013, 04:37 PM
I saw this coming when we had such a hard time beating the Marlins. The sad thing is that this division can be won but not with some of the slugs we have.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2013, 04:41 PM
More hot garbage. Don't stop now boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lip

Soxman219
05-29-2013, 04:42 PM
Only the Sox can give up 3 HRs to a backup catcher. He doubled his HR total.

Crestani
05-29-2013, 04:45 PM
I for one are sure glad they got rid of Greg Walker for Jeff Manto...Huge difference...!!!

mahagga73
05-29-2013, 04:45 PM
Don't fret , as soon as we get Beckham back it's going to be all good, just ask Hawk.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2013, 04:50 PM
Hey they got three runs today...that's about a week's worth for these stiffs.

Oh regarding Beckham, Robin said he's not coming back now until June 6th at the earliest. Don't know if anything has changed since his hand got sore last week.

Lip

Chez
05-29-2013, 04:52 PM
That was painful to watch. Go Hawks!

thomas35forever
05-29-2013, 04:57 PM
That was painful to watch. Go Hawks!
No kidding. They better win tonight so we won't have to focus all our attention on this crap for at least a couple more weeks.

Medford Bobby
05-29-2013, 05:00 PM
Enjoying the Sox post game show with Ranger online.....:whiner:

blandman
05-29-2013, 05:03 PM
After getting hot against some of the other worst teams in baseball, I hope getting our ass handed to us by another of the worst teams in baseball re-cements in the minds of our fans that we truly are among the worst teams in baseball. The sooner the fire sale happens, the better.

SCCWS
05-29-2013, 05:11 PM
After getting hot against some of the other worst teams in baseball, I hope getting our ass handed to us by another of the worst teams in baseball re-cements in the minds of our fans that we truly are among the worst teams in baseball. The sooner the fire sale happens, the better.


Actually they took 2 out of 3 against Boston who is a good team so far this year.

blandman
05-29-2013, 05:22 PM
Actually they took 2 out of 3 against Boston who is a good team so far this year.

Sold.

That's one of six series wins in two months. And only one of TWO TOTAL series wins against a team with a winning record.

I'm not sure this isn't the WORST team in baseball, period.

Brian26
05-29-2013, 05:27 PM
Caller on Rongeys show said Konerko was too worried about the Hawks game tonight. I guess Dionar Navarro doesn't like hockey.

blandman
05-29-2013, 05:29 PM
Caller on Rongeys show said Konerko was too worried about the Hawks game tonight. I guess Dionar Navarro doesn't like hockey.

Hockey's been on Konerko's mind for a while.

TheOldRoman
05-29-2013, 05:30 PM
Sold.

That's one of six series wins in two months. And only one of TWO TOTAL series wins against a team with a winning record.

I'm not sure this isn't the WORST team in baseball, period.

:rolleyes:You're like a minstrel show of pessimism.

blandman
05-29-2013, 05:33 PM
:rolleyes:You're like a minstrel show of pessimism.

Come on now, it's not like my facts were wrong. We've been pretty ****ing pathetic all year and our run differential suggests we'll be fighting for last all year too.

DickAllen72
05-29-2013, 05:38 PM
I for one are sure glad they got rid of Greg Walker for Jeff Manto...Huge difference...!!!
Yeah, but I really miss that unique batting stance Rios had under Walker.

hawkjt
05-29-2013, 05:45 PM
Cub catchers have hit 4 homers in the last 10 innings....Sox catchers have about 4 passed balls in that stretch.

Gasp!

Getting outscored 18-2 in 21 innings is bad enough, but against this bunch of rabble?

I am close to saying...blow it up....or maybe trade DWise for Ryan Sweeney, move Dayan to first,and trade Pk for prospects.

captain54
05-29-2013, 05:48 PM
Viciedo in left field.. the horrendous middle relief....

Jeff Manto is the least of my worries

Mr. White Sox
05-29-2013, 05:49 PM
... the Sox are among the worst in all of baseball

The pitching staff is too good to be included in the discussion with the Marlins for worst excuse for a major league team. The hitting, though? At this rate - even if Keppinger continues to rebound - you could make a solid case that the White Sox are made up of the worst collective bats in the AL and are a bottom-3 hitting team in MLB (and potentially the worst-hitting team in MLB by year's end outside the state of Florida). You know what? They could even be worse than the Marlins. The Sox don't even have the excuse that they are forced to trot a pitcher out there 11.1% of the time.

A .293 OBP. I'd be annoyed if more than one starter had an OBP lower than that. The Sox have a .293 OBP as a team. They have a bottom-5 OPS, a bottom-2 OBP, and are bottom-3 in the AL in slugging.

:redface:

Tragg
05-29-2013, 05:52 PM
In his last start, Santiago gave up 2 ER and struck out 9 against Boston.
Why is he relegated to middle relief, again?

Not that he pitched well today.
But that's 0/2 for Danks.

This team's not much, but my concern is that we're going to use July 30 as a time to give players away to cut payroll and make friends, as per recent times, rather than engineer tightly negotiated trades to reload this team with young players.

tstrike2000
05-29-2013, 06:00 PM
For once, glad I was at work instead of watching more pathetic offense and a loss to a garbage dump team.

blandman
05-29-2013, 06:00 PM
The pitching staff is too good to be included in the discussion with the Marlins for worst excuse for a major league team. The hitting, though? At this rate - even if Keppinger continues to rebound - you could make a solid case that the White Sox are made up of the worst collective bats in the AL and are a bottom-3 hitting team in MLB (and potentially the worst-hitting team in MLB by year's end outside the state of Florida). You know what? They could even be worse than the Marlins. The Sox don't even have the excuse that they are forced to trot a pitcher out there 11.1% of the time.

A .293 OBP. I'd be annoyed if more than one starter had an OBP lower than that. The Sox have a .293 OBP as a team. They have a bottom-5 OPS, a bottom-2 OBP, and are bottom-3 in the AL in slugging.

:redface:

With their prospects and farm...I'm not sure I wouldn't switch rosters. In fact, I can't imagine I wouldn't. They'll probably end up with a worse record, but they've got a lot of pieces to build around for the future. We've got like one.

blandman
05-29-2013, 06:03 PM
In his last start, Santiago gave up 2 ER and struck out 9 against Boston.
Why is he relegated to middle relief, again?

Not that he pitched well today.
But that's 0/2 for Danks.

This team's not much, but my concern is that we're going to use July 30 as a time to give players away to cut payroll and make friends, as per recent times, rather than engineer tightly negotiated trades to reload this team with young players.

Danks is just another example of a stubborn organization thinking they know better than everyone else.

Experimental surgery? No problem, he'll be ready for the season. No control or velocity? No worries, Danks at 60% is still worth the price of admission!

It's debatable whether Danks should have had the surgery to begin with. But there's really no good examples of both guys that did or didn't having a successful career afterwards anyway. And Danks, unlike most, has youth on his side. But acting like things would be fine in year one, and building the roster around that notion? Someone needs to get canned for that one.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2013, 06:10 PM
Danks is just another example of a stubborn organization thinking they know better than everyone else.

Experimental surgery? No problem, he'll be ready for the season. No control or velocity? No worries, Danks at 60% is still worth the price of admission!

It's debatable whether Danks should have had the surgery to begin with. But there's really no good examples of both guys that did or didn't having a successful career afterwards anyway. And Danks, unlike most, has youth on his side. But acting like things would be fine in year one, and building the roster around that notion? Someone needs to get canned for that one.

All that because this big market team has been run like a small market team for years. It's time for JR and his gang to sell. Except for 2005 his ownership has been a bust. Making the post season only 5 times in 32 years is pathetic.

captain54
05-29-2013, 06:10 PM
Danks is just another example of a stubborn organization thinking they know better than everyone else.
.

thank you thank you thank you..

this is all emotion right now.. and I've haven't said this in maybe ten years...

I'm willing to roll the dice and back up the truck... with Reinsdorf's office being the first stop.. the handwriting is on the wall JR..

Crestani
05-29-2013, 06:12 PM
Danks is just another example of a stubborn organization thinking they know better than everyone else.

Experimental surgery? No problem, he'll be ready for the season. No control or velocity? No worries, Danks at 60% is still worth the price of admission!

It's debatable whether Danks should have had the surgery to begin with. But there's really no good examples of both guys that did or didn't having a successful career afterwards anyway. And Danks, unlike most, has youth on his side. But acting like things would be fine in year one, and building the roster around that notion? Someone needs to get canned for that one.


Or bumped upstairs and made President...!!!:angry:

DrCrawdad
05-29-2013, 06:16 PM
3 homers to Navarro? Really?

Only the White Sox could give up 3 HRs to Dioner Navarro. It's actually pretty funny if you think about it. :D:

Only the Sox can give up 3 HRs to a backup catcher. He doubled his HR total.

Cub catchers have hit 4 homers in the last 10 innings....Sox catchers have about 4 passed balls in that stretch.

Gasp!

Getting outscored 18-2 in 21 innings is bad enough, but against this bunch of rabble?

I am close to saying...blow it up....or maybe trade DWise for Ryan Sweeney, move Dayan to first, and trade Pk for prospects.

Can Peavy treat Navarro like Samardzija did to Konkerko?

:redneck

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnukXH1kELTjW1vVV68BeWh-5Yijn6FPd9ET4r44H8PwRnpR3B

I saw this coming when we had such a hard time beating the Marlins. The sad thing is that this division can be won but not with some of the slugs we have.

You're right about that.

Viciedo in left field.. the horrendous middle relief....

Jeff Manto is the least of my worries

It's not just Viciedo. The defense is PUTRID! HORRIBLE! EMBARRASSING! :angry:

shingo10
05-29-2013, 06:17 PM
Caller on Rongeys show said Konerko was too worried about the Hawks game tonight. I guess Dionar Navarro doesn't like hockey.


Did Konerko play today?

Ah, if we get a split out of this then its not so bad. Otherwise, we're in some trouble.

Golden Sox
05-29-2013, 06:23 PM
1)I would really be surprised if JR sold the White Sox now. I have no doubt in my mind he will keep the team until he dies. That being said, we have reached a new low by losing 2 games to the bad guys on the Northside. I'm just hoping Hahn does something to help this team offensively. The sooner the better. We're still only 5 games behind the Tigers.2) Everybody gets old, except my wife.(the Goddess) I can't believe how bad Dunn has been the last 3 seasons. He put up decent numbers when he was in the National League. I can't believe there can be that big of a difference between the leagues. His baseball skills have gone by the wayside. It seems to me like he has aged quicker than other players have. He has to be the only hitter batting cleanup and batting .150 in the entire history of baseball. How much longer will he be on this team? He has no business being on a major league roster.

ChiSoxGal85
05-29-2013, 06:25 PM
It's not really good for me to walk around muttering and stewing after a bad loss, so I'm trying hard to stay positive. Well, maybe not stay positive - more like, I'm trying to have closer mentality: tomorrow, I must forget what happened today.

It's getting really difficult to do so, though, as the Sox continue the slide into sub-mediocrity. Danks only goes 4, relief pitching ineffective, offense mostly non-existent, and defense shaky? Does not get much uglier than this one, and it makes it more painful that it was done against the Cubs.

Foulke You
05-29-2013, 06:26 PM
Feldman really wasn't even that sharp and the ball was carryng well at Wrigley. No solid contact hit in the air today. Not sure if we even took a ball to the warning track. Our hitters swung at ball 4 as usual and missed many hittable pitches up in the zone. The lack of power is killing the team this year. It's the only thing this lineup was built to do and they aren't doing it.

On a side note, Danks was pretty awful. Had zero command of the change up and he gets clobbered without it.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2013, 07:17 PM
When a team is not in contention for postseason play, a condition that currently applies to our team, rivalry games become all the more important. Go ahead and call me a meatball all you want, but losing the Cubs the way we are losing to the Cubs is completely unacceptable. If we lose the Crosstown Cup, which has been in our hands since its inception, someone needs to pay the price. You do not lose rivalry games. Just ask Lloyd Carr.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2013, 07:36 PM
When a team is not in contention for postseason play, a condition that currently applies to our team, rivalry games become all the more important. Go ahead and call me a meatball all you want, but losing the Cubs the way we are losing to the Cubs is completely unacceptable. If we lose the Crosstown Cup, which has been in our hands since its inception, someone needs to pay the price. You do not lose rivalry games. Just ask Lloyd Carr.

The crosstown rivalry has lost something in the last few years.
I'm more concerned with what the direction of this franchise is. I have no idea what the game plan is.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2013, 07:38 PM
The crosstown rivalry has lost something in the last few years.
I'm more concerned with what the direction of this franchise is. I have no idea what the game plan is.

Our embarrassing performance during this crosstown series is a microcosm of the very issue you raise.

Brewski
05-29-2013, 07:38 PM
So utter humiliation is good for 38 posts. That in itself is a cause for worry, because no one gives a ****. Hardcore fans like us are giving up or dying off and the stands are filled with casual observers doing the wave. Which is not a bad thing unless fans having fun at the old ballpark is a bad thing, even if it is the wave.

Today's casual observers might become tomorrow's hardcore fans. I wish I cared about hockey and I envy those of you who do.

tstrike2000
05-29-2013, 07:40 PM
Hockey's been on Konerko's mind for a while.

Maybe he should retire and buy a share of the Coyotes.

SoxSpeed22
05-29-2013, 07:52 PM
I'll give danks the benefit of the doubt. He made bad pitches that any major leaguer could hit out. Our offense is incapable of coming back anyway.

shingo10
05-29-2013, 07:56 PM
Maybe he should retire and buy a share of the Coyotes.


Just so I'm clear about this....

Are people here are upset at Konerko, who did not play today, because he must have been too pumped up for the hockey game to do his job?

Seriously?

The guy has played through numerous injuries over the past few seasons, been platooned at 1st base so Dunn could find some mental comfort (that's working well) and has just kept on doing his job day in and out and not made a single excuse.

Yes it would be great if he could still hit but if history has shown anything it is that he is resilient and when he gets hot can carry a team for a long while.

tstrike2000
05-29-2013, 08:07 PM
Just so I'm clear about this....

Are people here are upset at Konerko, who did not play today, because he must have been too pumped up for the hockey game to do his job?

Seriously?

The guy has played through numerous injuries over the past few seasons, been platooned at 1st base so Dunn could find some mental comfort (that's working well) and has just kept on doing his job day in and out and not made a single excuse.

Yes it would be great if he could still hit but if history has shown anything it is that he is resilient and when he gets hot can carry a team for a long while.

It's alright Shingo, I wasn't really being serious. I have no idea and don't really care if Konerko likes hockey. I didn't see the game today. All I know is Danks wasn't great and the offense sucked. Konerko's just one of the 3/4 of our lineup that need to hit better.

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2013, 08:59 PM
I don't think the Sox are playoff contenders, but I find preposterous the notion that the Sox are one of the worst teams in MLB.

The Sox have one of the finest starting rotations, closer, and set-up man, in the majors.

I agree that their collection of position players is seriously deficient, and several of the players are playing much worse than they otherwise should be expected to play. Only Rios and Gillaspie are performing acceptably.

Two of our pitchers - one of whom just made his second start since returning from a year-long injury absence - just got bombed by a team that just got hot, while our already weak offense is slumping.

Lets not overreact here.

blandman
05-29-2013, 10:17 PM
I don't think the Sox are playoff contenders, but I find preposterous the notion that the Sox are one of the worst teams in MLB.

The Sox have one of the finest starting rotations, closer, and set-up man, in the majors.

I agree that their collection of position players is seriously deficient, and several of the players are playing much worse than they otherwise should be expected to play. Only Rios and Gillaspie are performing acceptably.

Two of our pitchers - one of whom just made his second start since returning from a year-long injury absence - just got bombed by a team that just got hot, while our already weak offense is slumping.

Lets not overreact here.

One of the finest starting rotations? I don't know about that, there's a plethera of great starting rotations in baseball. Sale Peavy have been a really good top two so far, but...realistically I can name about ten rotations 1-5 that are better.

Players in our lineup are not playing much worse than they otherwise should be expected to play. They are playing to expectation. This is what every analysis of the team said this offseason. At what point do you simply admit, "yeah, the consensus was right"? It's been two months and the analysis was spot on.

DSpivack
05-29-2013, 10:21 PM
One of the finest starting rotations? I don't know about that, there's a plethera of great starting rotations in baseball. Sale Peavy have been a really good top two so far, but...realistically I can name about ten rotations 1-5 that are better.

Players in our lineup are not playing much worse than they otherwise should be expected to play. They are playing to expectation. This is what every analysis of the team said this offseason. At what point do you simply admit, "yeah, the consensus was right"? It's been two months and the analysis was spot on.

I thought I read the other day that Sox starters are #1 in the AL in ERA.

doublem23
05-29-2013, 10:21 PM
One of the finest starting rotations? I don't know about that, there's a plethera of great starting rotations in baseball. Sale Peavy have been a really good top two so far, but...realistically I can name about ten rotations 1-5 that are better.

The Sox are #1 in the AL in WAR for pitchers (by actually a nice margin) so you probably can't

doublem23
05-29-2013, 10:23 PM
I thought I read the other day that Sox starters are #1 in the AL in ERA.

They are one of the best; basically any metric shows the Sox SP as being one the league's very best. Anyone who would argue that point is probably not watching and just judging other teams on "name" alone.

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2013, 10:27 PM
I thought I read the other day that Sox starters are #1 in the AL in ERA.

Game.

The Sox are #1 in the AL in WAR for pitchers (by actually a nice margin) so you probably can't

Set.

They are one of the best; basically any metric shows the Sox SP as being one the league's very best. Anyone who would argue that point is probably not watching and just judging other teams on "name" alone.

Munch.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2013, 10:35 PM
In the autopsy story Gonzo talked with Robin who said that he's now considering major lineup changes involving the batting order...specifically Dunn and De Aza. Robin was quoted as saying that "anything at this point is on the table..."

Story said Robin is considering Ramirez into the leadoff position perhaps as soon as Thursday.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2013, 10:47 PM
In the autopsy story Gonzo talked with Robin who said that he's now considering major lineup changes involving the batting order...specifically Dunn and De Aza. Robin was quoted as saying that "anything at this point is on the table..."

Story said Robin is considering Ramirez into the leadoff position perhaps as soon as Thursday.

Lip

Given the current roster, I'd think outside the box, and do this:

Alexei, Gillaspie, Rios, Paulie, Keppinger, Viciedo, Dunn, Flowers, DeAza.

Clusters all the high-strikeout bums at the bottom of the order. Yes, it basically gives up every third inning, but it puts our best hitters together where they can actually do some things.

TaylorStSox
05-29-2013, 10:49 PM
One of the finest starting rotations? I don't know about that, there's a plethera of great starting rotations in baseball. Sale Peavy have been a really good top two so far, but...realistically I can name about ten rotations 1-5 that are better.

Players in our lineup are not playing much worse than they otherwise should be expected to play. They are playing to expectation. This is what every analysis of the team said this offseason. At what point do you simply admit, "yeah, the consensus was right"? It's been two months and the analysis was spot on.
Worst team in baseball and 10 better rotations? Dude, go home. You're full of it.

JB98
05-30-2013, 12:17 AM
Yeah, I think the Sox would be about 8-42 if it wasn't for their strong starting pitching. This is a pretty good rotation. Reed and Crain have been really good at the end of the bullpen too.

Certainly, this team has won few, if any, games on offensive prowess.

BainesHOF
05-30-2013, 12:17 AM
There's no accountability in this organization. Drafts/minor league development has been terrible for years and people get promoted. Dunn has sucked for the better part of three seasons and his .150 average continues to show up in the cleanup spot. Danks does not have major league stuff/velocity and he's inserted into the rotation. Ramirez makes repeated mental mistakes and refuses to bunt properly yet never leaves the field. Viciedo hacks like a fool and plays everyday. I can go on and on, but I'm losing interest in this team and organization, which can't even do the right thing with a pregame video. The whole thing is just so old.

Chez
05-30-2013, 07:31 AM
Hey, look! The sun did rise this morning!!! Win today and most of us will feel better about life.

nsolo
05-30-2013, 07:38 AM
Thrilling. Navarro had a HR for every Dunn K. At that rate, he could hit 250 HRs this season.
Sarcasm at its finest. Love the quote, hate the team's performance.

By the way, if any of you could see your way to it, I might need some bail money before today is over. Two cub fans at work might require a tuneup.

October26
05-30-2013, 08:02 AM
For once, glad I was at work instead of watching more pathetic offense and a loss to a garbage dump team.

It's not really good for me to walk around muttering and stewing after a bad loss, so I'm trying hard to stay positive. Well, maybe not stay positive - more like, I'm trying to have closer mentality: tomorrow, I must forget what happened today.

It's getting really difficult to do so, though, as the Sox continue the slide into sub-mediocrity. Danks only goes 4, relief pitching ineffective, offense mostly non-existent, and defense shaky? Does not get much uglier than this one, and it makes it more painful that it was done against the Cubs.

+1

I was also at work and could not watch this game, which is probably a good thing for my general well-being, including my blood pressure.

I did watch Monday night's game and was annoyed to see the anemic Sox offense against this bad Cubs team. From reading this postgame thread, it sounds like the Sox offensive woes continued. Add in bad Sox defense and ineffective Sox pitching and you have the recipe for another painful Sox loss.

Glad to hear that Robin is talking lineup changes. C'mon Sox offense, wake up! Need to salvage a win today.

Carolina Kenny
05-30-2013, 08:48 AM
Given the current roster, I'd think outside the box, and do this:

Alexei, Gillaspie, Rios, Paulie, Keppinger, Viciedo, Dunn, Flowers, DeAza.

Clusters all the high-strikeout bums at the bottom of the order. Yes, it basically gives up every third inning, but it puts our best hitters together where they can actually do some things.

I agree but Kepp batting 5th? Ugh.

BainesHOF
05-30-2013, 09:06 AM
Keppinger shouldn't even be in baseball.

doublem23
05-30-2013, 09:26 AM
Keppinger shouldn't even be in baseball.

The guy's hitting like .350 the past 2 weeks

beasly213
05-30-2013, 09:37 AM
The guy's hitting like .350 the past 2 weeks

Exactly .350 actually.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=2&season1=2013&ind=0&team=4&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

kittle42
05-30-2013, 09:48 AM
I'm not sure this isn't the WORST team in baseball, period.

Come on, Munch. The Fish and Astros are playing, and the Sox are better than the Cubs despite this series. They dropped a series to the Astros last year at home. Did that make the Astros a better team? None of us is happy right now, but this is over the top.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 09:50 AM
It's not just Viciedo. The defense is PUTRID! HORRIBLE! EMBARRASSING! :angry:

As I said in the game thread, it's nearing Ozzie-like proportions. Hell, it might be worse. This team looks like a T-ball team at times.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 09:50 AM
1)I would really be surprised if JR sold the White Sox now. I have no doubt in my mind he will keep the team until he dies.

Well, the Hawks are good now after a similar ownership situation.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 09:53 AM
So utter humiliation is good for 38 posts. That in itself is a cause for worry, because no one gives a ****. Hardcore fans like us are giving up or dying off and the stands are filled with casual observers doing the wave.

30k at both the Cell and Wrigley for these two games. People don't care as much about the games and, moreso, the actual teams.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 09:55 AM
One of the finest starting rotations? I don't know about that, there's a plethera of great starting rotations in baseball. Sale Peavy have been a really good top two so far, but...realistically I can name about ten rotations 1-5 that are better.

The numbers thus far disagree with you. The starters have the fifth best ERA in baseball.

Link (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/127)

And munch's theories are blasted out of the water again...

kittle42
05-30-2013, 09:58 AM
Hey, look! The sun did rise this morning!!! Win today and most of us will feel better about life.

It's been a few season since my emotions hung on Sox games - probably since 2008. It makes me sad. I care about as much as this franchise seems to care about us.

tebman
05-30-2013, 10:30 AM
It's not really good for me to walk around muttering and stewing after a bad loss, so I'm trying hard to stay positive. Well, maybe not stay positive - more like, I'm trying to have closer mentality: tomorrow, I must forget what happened today.

It's getting really difficult to do so, though, as the Sox continue the slide into sub-mediocrity. Danks only goes 4, relief pitching ineffective, offense mostly non-existent, and defense shaky? Does not get much uglier than this one, and it makes it more painful that it was done against the Cubs.

I missed this game and that's a good thing. After being dumbfounded by the Sox' poor performance Monday night I also worked to forget what happened Wednesday.

I know that any team on any day can get hot or cold. We've been on the wrong side of that cliché this week and so I want to be analytical. What can the Sox do?

Can Flowers, Viciedo, and De Aza break out of their hitting and fielding funk? I hope so, but if they don't, what's Plan B? Ramirez's frequent lapses (wrong position, not covering a base, etc.) are doubly frustrating because of his skill in getting to balls that others would miss. Konerko might come back to form or he might not. Adam Dunn -- what else can we say?

This is similar to where the Sox were in the late 1980s. Larry Himes was reportedly a difficult guy to work with, but he had a gift for signing talent and the team became competitive and exciting again when Thomas, Ventura, McDowell and the rest joined the big club. Rick Hahn has been on the job less than a year so it's too soon to look for his influence. I only hope that with his and Buddy Bell's stated goal to sign "toolsy" players that we see evidence of that happening through the organization. Given where the team is now, I'm afraid we'll be waiting at least a couple of years before we notice results.

russ99
05-30-2013, 10:34 AM
Exactly .350 actually.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=2&season1=2013&ind=0&team=4&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

Kepp will be OK, I think a lot of his early season funk had to do with recovering from his broken leg.

TaylorStSox
05-30-2013, 10:34 AM
It's been a few season since my emotions hung on Sox games - probably since 2008. It makes me sad. I care about as much as this franchise seems to care about us.

I attribute that to growing up.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 10:39 AM
I attribute that to growing up.

That is a really good point, actually. At some point, life became more important. :smile:

DeadMoney
05-30-2013, 11:41 AM
It's been a few season since my emotions hung on Sox games - probably since 2008. It makes me sad. I care about as much as this franchise seems to care about us.

I attribute that to growing up.

That is a really good point, actually. At some point, life became more important. :smile:

I'm in the same boat. The wins always used to feel great and the losses would always sting, all until the next first pitch. Now, I still go to games and enjoy them, but I enjoy baseball. Heck, this weekend I'm going out to San Diego, Oakland, and San Francisco to catch Toronto and the White Sox play some games and I couldn't care less about the Sox games. I'm much more excited about enjoying a few different teams and ballparks (although, I've been to Petco and the Coliseum already).

I think part of it is growing up, but a big part of it is my feelings about the White Sox organization - top to bottom (including the players). The last time I actually truly felt something meaningful about this franchise was probably this:

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/daily-pitch/2011/09/27/Mark%20Buehrlex-large.jpg

doublem23
05-30-2013, 11:48 AM
I think part of it is growing up, but a big part of it is my feelings about the White Sox organization - top to bottom (including the players). The last time I actually truly felt something meaningful about this franchise was probably this:

No offense, but this is essentially the attitude of bandwagon jumper, isn't it? Nothing about the organization has changed in decades really, except that right now, the team's not all that great. I would understand if the Sox had just been bought or sold or there was a huge shake up in the way the do business, but there isn't. The only difference is that right now the team stinks. But I don't know if you're allowed to call yourself a fan of a team if the only way they can inspire meaningful emotion is when they're good.

Also, Mark Buehrle sucks now and, as much flak as the team deserves for a litany of poor decisions that have predictably backfired (Swisher trades, draft strategy, Latin America fiasco, etc.) not matching that ridiculous contract the Marlins have him was clearly a good move.

Chez
05-30-2013, 11:58 AM
No offense, but this is essentially the attitude of bandwagon jumper, isn't it? Nothing about the organization has changed in decades really, except that right now, the team's not all that great. I would understand if the Sox had just been bought or sold or there was a huge shake up in the way the do business, but there isn't. The only difference is that right now the team stinks. But I don't know if you're allowed to call yourself a fan of a team if the only way they can inspire meaningful emotion is when they're good.

Also, Mark Buehrle sucks now and, as much flak as the team deserves for a litany of poor decisions that have predictably backfired (Swisher trades, draft strategy, Latin America fiasco, etc.) not matching that ridiculous contract the Marlins have him was clearly a good move.

Uh-oh. The dreaded B-Word. :D:

Crestani
05-30-2013, 11:58 AM
I'll give danks the benefit of the doubt. He made bad pitches that any major leaguer could hit out. Our offense is incapable of coming back anyway.

My fear is that he will now become nothing more than a journeyman pitcher the rest of his career..!! The kind on injury he had is difficult to come all the way back from and unless you can stay on the corners, your hitable. Danks has never had excellent control even when healthy..!!

DeadMoney
05-30-2013, 12:44 PM
No offense, but this is essentially the attitude of bandwagon jumper, isn't it? Nothing about the organization has changed in decades really, except that right now, the team's not all that great. I would understand if the Sox had just been bought or sold or there was a huge shake up in the way the do business, but there isn't. The only difference is that right now the team stinks. But I don't know if you're allowed to call yourself a fan of a team if the only way they can inspire meaningful emotion is when they're good.

Also, Mark Buehrle sucks now and, as much flak as the team deserves for a litany of poor decisions that have predictably backfired (Swisher trades, draft strategy, Latin America fiasco, etc.) not matching that ridiculous contract the Marlins have him was clearly a good move.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not just when they're good that brought out good/bad emotions. For some reason though, I just have very little emotion when it comes to this team and it's been that way for a couple years now. I still support the hell out of them, I go to games, etc... I just don't know where my emotion about this franchise has gone. Maybe it's growing up/getting older, but I also have to say that I know those emotions are still there for other teams that I follow. It's just that for this team and organization, I feel very little right now. Whether it be the perceived lack of direction, the players, the type of baseball they play, the notion that the organization seems to think they know more than the fans about what fans want ... I don't know what it is, but this team (that I've loved for 25+ years now and lived/died with the results) in its current state - is boring to me and generates very little of that same emotion I've had in the past (good/bad/other). The most emotion I have/feel about them is when I talk about blowing it up and starting over.

Also, I have no problem with what occurred with Buehrle. It was the right decision and it always will be. I'm just saying that Buehrle's last start is probably the last time I truly felt something about this organization or someone in this organization from a White Sox fan standpoint. Last year was nice/enjoyable for 90% of the season, and I went to over 40 games (including Humber's perfect game in Seattle), and as much as that one game had me 'feeling' something, it was baseball me that felt something, not White Sox fan me.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 12:48 PM
I understand what you're saying, but it's not just when they're good that brought out good/bad emotions. For some reason though, I just have very little emotion when it comes to this team and it's been that way for a couple years now. I still support the hell out of them, I go to games, etc... I just don't know where my emotion about this franchise has gone. Maybe it's growing up/getting older, but I also have to say that I know those emotions are still there for other teams that I follow. It's just that for this team and organization, I feel very little right now. Whether it be the perceived lack of direction, the players, the type of baseball they play, the notion that the organization seems to think they know more than the fans about what fans want ... I don't know what it is, but this team (that I've loved for 25+ years now and lived/died with the results) in its current state - is boring to me and generates very little of that same emotion I've had in the past (good/bad/other). The most emotion I have/feel about them is when I talk about blowing it up and starting over.

Also, I have no problem with what occurred with Buehrle. It was the right decision and it always will be. I'm just saying that Buehrle's last start is probably the last time I truly felt something about this organization or someone in this organization from a White Sox fan standpoint. Last year was nice/enjoyable for 90% of the season, and I went to over 40 games (including Humber's perfect game in Seattle), and as much as that one game had me 'feeling' something, it was baseball me that felt something, not White Sox fan me.

Well stated.

Lip Man 1
05-30-2013, 01:06 PM
I understand what you're saying, but it's not just when they're good that brought out good/bad emotions. For some reason though, I just have very little emotion when it comes to this team and it's been that way for a couple years now. I still support the hell out of them, I go to games, etc... I just don't know where my emotion about this franchise has gone. Maybe it's growing up/getting older, but I also have to say that I know those emotions are still there for other teams that I follow. It's just that for this team and organization, I feel very little right now. Whether it be the perceived lack of direction, the players, the type of baseball they play, the notion that the organization seems to think they know more than the fans about what fans want ... I don't know what it is, but this team (that I've loved for 25+ years now and lived/died with the results) in its current state - is boring to me and generates very little of that same emotion I've had in the past (good/bad/other). The most emotion I have/feel about them is when I talk about blowing it up and starting over.

Also, I have no problem with what occurred with Buehrle. It was the right decision and it always will be. I'm just saying that Buehrle's last start is probably the last time I truly felt something about this organization or someone in this organization from a White Sox fan standpoint. Last year was nice/enjoyable for 90% of the season, and I went to over 40 games (including Humber's perfect game in Seattle), and as much as that one game had me 'feeling' something, it was baseball me that felt something, not White Sox fan me.

Dead:

I understand completely the way you are feeling. There's no buzz anymore with the club / organization...it's like they are simply drifting for who knows where or when.

Lip

jdm2662
05-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Could it be that maybe just maybe there is more than life than sports? I want the White Sox to win as much as the next person along with all the other teams I follow. I don't go to bed worrying about them if they lose. Why? Because, my life goes on as is. Sports are entertainment. I watch them for that very reason.

Even yesterday's Hawks game. Sure, it would've sucked that they lost. Had they lost, the world wouldn't had come to an end. Had they lost, I would've said, oh well, and went to bed. Since they won, I will be watching them in another series.

I have a 13-month-old son along with a wife and family. I have many more things to worry about. I was going through a really rough time in my life in 2000. Sure, the 2000 White Sox were fun to watch, but they didn't turn my life around. And, that's why I laugh at major tragedies like Katrina, for example, revolved around sports teams. Had the Saints won the Super Bowl in 2006, it wouldn't had turned the people's lives around and made them happy. It just would've given them something to watch.

blandman
05-30-2013, 01:29 PM
The numbers thus far disagree with you. The starters have the fifth best ERA in baseball.

Link (http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/127)

And munch's theories are blasted out of the water again...

There are lots and lots of pitchers that are obviously better. We have three pitchers that have outpitched, as a singular example, Justin Verlander. Those pitchers are not better than Justin Verlander.

What I find the most hilarious is that no one here can objectively take 60 days, look at how terrible we've been in series, how terrible we've been against the division, how terrible we've been against teams with winning records, and how we've got a terrible -24 run differential through two months and NOT see that we're indeed absolutely terrible.

But judge our starters on 9 or less starts apiece? Absolutely. They're the best in the business.

DSpivack
05-30-2013, 01:39 PM
There are lots and lots of pitchers that are obviously better. We have three pitchers that have outpitched, as a singular example, Justin Verlander. Those pitchers are not better than Justin Verlander.

What I find the most hilarious is that no one here can objectively take 60 days, look at how terrible we've been in series, how terrible we've been against the division, how terrible we've been against teams with winning records, and how we've got a terrible -24 run differential through two months and NOT see that we're indeed absolutely terrible.

But judge our starters on 9 or less starts apiece? Absolutely. They're the best in the business.

If the Sox are absolutely terrible, what does that make the 6 AL teams with a worse record than them?

doublem23
05-30-2013, 01:39 PM
But judge our starters on 9 or less starts apiece? Absolutely. They're the best in the business.

You're right, we should judge players based on name recognition alone, which is apparently your system. Nobody has posted that the Sox aren't a bad team, but you're going to have to live with the fact that to this point, basically any data you look at shows the Sox are one of the best starting staffs in baseball. I understand this fact doesn't align with your clearly pre-determined opinion, but unfortunately, facts don't always bend to meet the needs of everyone.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 01:51 PM
What I find the most hilarious is that no one here can objectively take 60 days, look at how terrible we've been in series, how terrible we've been against the division, how terrible we've been against teams with winning records, and how we've got a terrible -24 run differential through two months and NOT see that we're indeed absolutely terrible.

I understand how bad this team is. But I also think they would have their way with Houston, Miami, the Cubs, and a few others over a full season playing only those teams, meaning there are teams worse than the Sox. You made the statement that the Sox are perhaps the worst team.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 01:52 PM
You're right, we should judge players based on name recognition alone, which is apparently your system. Nobody has posted that the Sox aren't a bad team, but you're going to have to live with the fact that to this point, basically any data you look at shows the Sox are one of the best starting staffs in baseball. I understand this fact doesn't align with your clearly pre-determined opinion, but unfortunately, facts don't always bend to meet the needs of everyone.

Hey, Roy Halladay and Tim Lincecum are great!

blandman
05-30-2013, 01:59 PM
You're right, we should judge players based on name recognition alone, which is apparently your system. Nobody has posted that the Sox aren't a bad team, but you're going to have to live with the fact that to this point, basically any data you look at shows the Sox are one of the best starting staffs in baseball. I understand this fact doesn't align with your clearly pre-determined opinion, but unfortunately, facts don't always bend to meet the needs of everyone.

When all is said and done, I doubt we'll have any more than 2 of the top fifty starters. It would be nice if that was wrong, but I have a hard time believing we will. The stuff isn't there.

I understand how bad this team is. But I also think they would have their way with Houston, Miami, the Cubs, and a few others over a full season playing only those teams, meaning there are teams worse than the Sox. You made the statement that the Sox are perhaps the worst team.

That remains to be seen, I suppose. There is a case to be made. I didn't say we were for sure the worse, but we're also getting our asses handed to us by one of those teams. We're at least in the conversation.

Crestani
05-30-2013, 02:05 PM
By the way, is anybody else sick of the phrase,
"You just tip your hat"...coming from every player on the Sox..?? It is the most overused phrase from our clubhouse and starts with Robin...!!! :cuss:

kittle42
05-30-2013, 02:06 PM
by the way, is anybody else sick of the phrase,
"you just tip your hat"...coming from every player on the sox..?? It is the most overused phrase from our clubhouse and starts with robin...!!! :cuss:

yes!

JB98
05-30-2013, 02:11 PM
By the way, is anybody else sick of the phrase,
"You just tip your hat"...coming from every player on the Sox..?? It is the most overused phrase from our clubhouse and starts with Robin...!!! :cuss:

Yes. I've been sick of the hat- and cap-tipping for years.

SI1020
05-30-2013, 02:12 PM
By the way, is anybody else sick of the phrase,
"You just tip your hat"...coming from every player on the Sox..?? It is the most overused phrase from our clubhouse and starts with Robin...!!! :cuss: I was tired of it years ago.

SCCWS
05-30-2013, 02:25 PM
When all is said and done, I doubt we'll have any more than 2 of the top fifty starters. It would be nice if that was wrong, but I have a hard time believing we will. The stuff isn't there.



That remains to be seen, I suppose. There is a case to be made. I didn't say we were for sure the worse, but we're also getting our asses handed to us by one of those teams. We're at least in the conversation.

Because it is a rivalry game, I think some Chicago based fans over-react to the Cubs series. The White Sox took 2 out of 3 off Boston last week, one of the better teams in baseball. They then swept Miami which is one of the teams with a terrible record and may be getting swept by the Cubs.

I don't think any of those series individually means they are a good team that beat Boston and Miami or a bad team that lost a series to the Cubs. They are still a team that has good pitching with weak hitting and defense. Which if we don't see a major change , usually translates to a .500 team--middle of the pack.

Moses_Scurry
05-30-2013, 02:27 PM
I understand what you're saying, but it's not just when they're good that brought out good/bad emotions. For some reason though, I just have very little emotion when it comes to this team and it's been that way for a couple years now. I still support the hell out of them, I go to games, etc... I just don't know where my emotion about this franchise has gone. Maybe it's growing up/getting older, but I also have to say that I know those emotions are still there for other teams that I follow. It's just that for this team and organization, I feel very little right now. Whether it be the perceived lack of direction, the players, the type of baseball they play, the notion that the organization seems to think they know more than the fans about what fans want ... I don't know what it is, but this team (that I've loved for 25+ years now and lived/died with the results) in its current state - is boring to me and generates very little of that same emotion I've had in the past (good/bad/other). The most emotion I have/feel about them is when I talk about blowing it up and starting over.

Also, I have no problem with what occurred with Buehrle. It was the right decision and it always will be. I'm just saying that Buehrle's last start is probably the last time I truly felt something about this organization or someone in this organization from a White Sox fan standpoint. Last year was nice/enjoyable for 90% of the season, and I went to over 40 games (including Humber's perfect game in Seattle), and as much as that one game had me 'feeling' something, it was baseball me that felt something, not White Sox fan me.

I'm in the same camp. I think last year's choke job broke something in me. The emotion is not there for now, but I don't think it is dead. I just wish we had some stud position players on the horizon to be excited about. Even when they sucked in the late-80's we knew that Frank and Ventura were coming up. I would love to have that again.

doublem23
05-30-2013, 02:43 PM
I'm in the same camp. I think last year's choke job broke something in me. The emotion is not there for now, but I don't think it is dead. I just wish we had some stud position players on the horizon to be excited about. Even when they sucked in the late-80's we knew that Frank and Ventura were coming up. I would love to have that again.

That makes a lot of sense. There certainly is a sizzle missing to this team.

That said, have you guys seen Chris Sale pitch? :o: That guy is amazing.

blandman
05-30-2013, 03:27 PM
Because it is a rivalry game, I think some Chicago based fans over-react to the Cubs series. The White Sox took 2 out of 3 off Boston last week, one of the better teams in baseball. They then swept Miami which is one of the teams with a terrible record and may be getting swept by the Cubs.

I don't think any of those series individually means they are a good team that beat Boston and Miami or a bad team that lost a series to the Cubs. They are still a team that has good pitching with weak hitting and defense. Which if we don't see a major change , usually translates to a .500 team--middle of the pack.

As I said earlier, 6 total series wins all year, and that Boston series is one of two against winning teams. TWICE in two months have we won a series against a decent opponent. That's what really really bad teams do. Barely win series, and only win a handful against good teams. Houston is going to take some series from good teams this year. That doesn't mean they're also not atrocious.

Jerko
05-30-2013, 03:41 PM
I think part of the reason I'm not as emotional when they lose anymore is that I feel like I'm getting fed a **** sandwich every time I see Dunn in the 4 hole. If they don't care enough to put that guy down in the lineup, I don't care enough to get upset anymore when he sucks. I realize moving him down is a drop in the ocean with this bunch, but at least do SOMETHING.

kittle42
05-30-2013, 03:42 PM
As I said earlier, 6 total series wins all year, and that Boston series is one of two against winning teams. TWICE in two months have we won a series against a decent opponent. That's what really really bad teams do. Barely win series, and only win a handful against good teams. Houston is going to take some series from good teams this year. That doesn't mean they're also not atrocious.

This is very true.

Moses_Scurry
05-30-2013, 04:11 PM
That makes a lot of sense. There certainly is a sizzle missing to this team.

That said, have you guys seen Chris Sale pitch? :o: That guy is amazing.

That's great! What do I do for the other 130 games or so?:tongue:

BainesHOF
05-30-2013, 05:43 PM
The guy's hitting like .350 the past 2 weeks

So what? Keppinger is a dog. He's just not a good baseball player.