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View Full Version : Why Not a Six-Man Rotation?


24thStFan
05-24-2013, 03:12 PM
Sale
Peavy
Danks
Quintana
Axelrod
Santiago

From what I've read, the cons of a 6-man rotation seem to be:
a. don't let your ace pitch so often;
b. mess with your bullpen;and,
c. weaken your bench.

But given the current situation with the Sox;
a. Sale might benefit from more rest (he just missed a start);
b. our bull pen is already unsettled;
c. well, you know all about our bench.

In addition, wouldn't Peavy and Danks benefit from some extra rest? I'm not a baseball expert like some other posters here, so I'm asking an honest question. I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts of others.

Foulke You
05-24-2013, 03:14 PM
Sale
Peavy
Danks
Quintana
Axelrod
Santiago

From what I've read, the cons of a 6-man rotation seem to be:
a. don't let your ace pitch so often;
b. mess with your bullpen;and,
c. weaken your bench.

But given the current situation with the Sox;
a. Sale might benefit from more rest (he just missed a start);
b. our bull pen is already unsettled;
c. well, you know all about our bench.

In addition, wouldn't Peavy and Danks benefit from some extra rest? I'm not a baseball expert like some other posters here, so I'm asking an honest question. I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts of others.
I see this as a negative. The Sox need Sale and Peavy to pitch as much as they can this year to have a chance. Going to a six man would be reducing the amount of times they can help you win a game. I understand the point about Sale's health but it is hard to even say if giving him 1 extra day would save him from an injury.

doublem23
05-24-2013, 03:20 PM
I see this as a negative. The Sox need Sale and Peavy to pitch as much as they can this year to have a chance. Going to a six man would be reducing the amount of times they can help you win a game. I understand the point about Sale's health but it is hard to even say if giving him 1 extra day would save him from an injury.

That's generally my feeling, as well, not to mention the Sox bullpen is really thin behind Crain and Reed, I don't know if further diluting the talent is the right move. If Santiago (or Axelrod, I suppose) can pitch as well out of the bullpen as they have as starters, that gives the Sox 3 legitimately good arms in the bullpen and that is a nice luxury to have. If they had 1-2 more really dependable arms in the bullpen, maybe the 6-man rotation makes more sense, but as it is right now, I don't think they have enough to support a short-armed bullpen.

Maybe give a guy a spot start here and there during long stretches without days off to give guys extra rest, but going strictly 6-man, I think under utilizes your best pitchers and risk overtaxing your worst.

24thStFan
05-24-2013, 03:27 PM
Maybe give a guy a spot start here and there during long stretches without days off to give guys extra rest, but going strictly 6-man, I think under utilizes your best pitchers and risk overtaxing your worst.

We may have to do this out of necessity, anyways. But what you all have said makes sense. I'm just a little worried about everyone holding up over the long haul given their past history.

doublem23
05-24-2013, 04:30 PM
We may have to do this out of necessity, anyways. But what you all have said makes sense. I'm just a little worried about everyone holding up over the long haul given their past history.

No, I understand your concern, it's perfectly valid, but this is also the corner you paint yourself in when you play like **** for the first month of the season and bury yourself early. The Sox, unfortunately, don't have the luxury to not ride their best players now, they're in catch up mode. So you're kind of damned if you do or damned if you don't. But I think it's preferable that if you're going to go down, you do so with your best players contributing as much to the cause as possible (just my opinion).

vinny
05-24-2013, 06:06 PM
"Peavy and Sale, then pray for hail!" :redneck

WLL1855
05-24-2013, 08:01 PM
This **** again?

WLL1855
05-24-2013, 08:02 PM
Sale
Peavy
Danks
Quintana
Axelrod
Santiago

From what I've read, the cons of a 6-man rotation seem to be:
a. don't let your ace pitch so often;
b. mess with your bullpen;and,
c. weaken your bench.

But given the current situation with the Sox;
a. Sale might benefit from more rest (he just missed a start);
b. our bull pen is already unsettled;
c. well, you know all about our bench.

In addition, wouldn't Peavy and Danks benefit from some extra rest? I'm not a baseball expert like some other posters here, so I'm asking an honest question. I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts of others.

If it was such a great idea, why don't other teams do it?

kittle42
05-24-2013, 08:06 PM
If it was such a great idea, why don't other teams do it?

Amen.

We ain't got six aces out there.

WLL1855
05-24-2013, 08:07 PM
We may have to do this out of necessity, anyways. But what you all have said makes sense. I'm just a little worried about everyone holding up over the long haul given their past history.

Please elaborate.

I don't know if you caught it or not. The Sox have probably the best head trainer in sports. They have been by far the healthiest MLB for well over a decade.

doublem23
05-24-2013, 08:11 PM
This **** again?

Uh, when was the last time someone brought up the idea of running out a 6-man rotation?

Lip Man 1
05-24-2013, 08:26 PM
Sale
Peavy
Danks
Quintana
Axelrod
Santiago

From what I've read, the cons of a 6-man rotation seem to be:
a. don't let your ace pitch so often;
b. mess with your bullpen;and,
c. weaken your bench.

But given the current situation with the Sox;
a. Sale might benefit from more rest (he just missed a start);
b. our bull pen is already unsettled;
c. well, you know all about our bench.

In addition, wouldn't Peavy and Danks benefit from some extra rest? I'm not a baseball expert like some other posters here, so I'm asking an honest question. I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts of others.

Because the Sox badly need a second left hander in the bullpen, that guy appears to be Santiago (short of a trade...)

Lip

doublem23
05-24-2013, 08:28 PM
Because the Sox badly need a second left hander in the bullpen, that guy appears to be Santiago (short of a trade...)

Lip

Which is funny, because of Hector's screwball, he throws much more like a righty if you're looking at the splits.

SCCWS
05-24-2013, 08:32 PM
Actually, wouldn't the "odd man out" be better off going to Charlotte ( as long as he has options) and remaining a starter than going to the White Sox bullpen and getting spot duty. That way if another starter goes down for a stretch, we have one ready to go at AAA.

doublem23
05-24-2013, 08:37 PM
Actually, wouldn't the "odd man out" be better off going to Charlotte ( as long as he has options) and remaining a starter than going to the White Sox bullpen and getting spot duty. That way if another starter goes down for a stretch, we have one ready to go at AAA.

In a perfect world, yeah, probably, but I don't think Donnie Veal gave them a choice as to who was going to be the odd man out.

WLL1855
05-24-2013, 09:36 PM
Uh, when was the last time someone brought up the idea of running out a 6-man rotation?

I seem to recall the idea being thrown around fairly frequently last season.

Sometimes in conjunction with the idea of Sale's elbow exploding with the force of a hydrogen bomb if he pitched too many innings. Or something like that.

doublem23
05-24-2013, 09:38 PM
I seem to recall the idea being thrown around fairly frequently last season.

Sometimes in conjunction with the idea of Sale's elbow exploding with the force of a hydrogen bomb if he pitched too many innings. Or something like that.

Yeah, no, yeah... No, yeah, it wasn't

Perhaps you're thinking of 2011 when the Sox did have a 6-man rotation?

WLL1855
05-24-2013, 11:11 PM
It is possible that it was 2011. I'm getting old enough that my past is becoming a blur.

Zakath
05-24-2013, 11:35 PM
If you had a larger roster, I could see potentially going to six starters, if you had six arms worth it. However, with only 25 guys (13 regular players and 12 pitchers), that puts a ton of pressure on your bullpen, since there would only be six arms out there. You could also end up with guys who go a week or longer without pitching, and that's too infrequently.

Daver
05-25-2013, 01:31 AM
If you had a larger roster, I could see potentially going to six starters, if you had six arms worth it. However, with only 25 guys (13 regular players and 12 pitchers), that puts a ton of pressure on your bullpen, since there would only be six arms out there. You could also end up with guys who go a week or longer without pitching, and that's too infrequently.

The same argument was probably made when the Orioles in the early seventies started the switch to a five man rotation, soon after every team had to have five starters. I would rather see a move in the opposite direction, strengthen the bullpen by going to a four man rotation.



Nice Dawes reference in your sig BTW.

pmck003
05-25-2013, 01:44 AM
It is interesting to challenge why a five man rotation gives optimal rest for the throwing arm. Why not a four man? Especially if the starters could go shorter innings and the two guys left out could go every few days.

Disclaimer: I have little science in my brain.

Railsplitter
05-25-2013, 08:59 AM
It's hard enough to get five pitchers decent enough to start.

Noneck
05-25-2013, 09:08 AM
With the money paid to Danks and Peavy and their experience, they should be going no more than 5 days probably 4 but unfortunately those days are gone. Sale being young and the type of mechanics he has could maybe get extra time off occasionally. With 6 starters one can relief and be ready for a spot start, no need to ever go to 6 man rotation.

TheVulture
05-25-2013, 05:04 PM
Personally, I think it would be a mistake to take Santiago out of the rotation. Dude's nasty when he's got his stuff working.

#1swisher
05-26-2013, 11:57 AM
Scott Merkin
Santiago to the bullpen, Axelrod staying at No. 5. More to come on MLB.com

Falstaff
05-26-2013, 03:58 PM
Please elaborate.

I don't know if you caught it or not. The Sox have probably the best head trainer in sports. They have been by far the healthiest MLB for well over a decade.
Maybe you did not notice Danks is coming back from major surgery, Peavy will always need to be treated with kid gloves since his own unprecedented shoulder repair. Meanwhile, Sale just missed a start 1/4 of the way into the season due to pain.
I think the 6 man rotation is a valid stategy to consider. Your Aces will not be throwing Wilbur Wood quantity innings and your #4-5-6 pitchers on this team could #2-3-4 on most others. And your aces won't be making any appearances if their bodily needs are not taken seriously.
Don't tell me to shut up because the Sox staff knows best.
Sports chat forums exist so fringe ideas can be batted around by less-than-fully-informed experts.

Lip Man 1
05-26-2013, 08:18 PM
Not sure of this but haven't the Sox lost a starter for the season to a serious injury three years in a row now? Peavy...Danks...Floyd.

Lip

TheVulture
05-27-2013, 01:08 PM
Not sure of this but haven't the Sox lost a starter for the season to a serious injury three years in a row now? Peavy...Danks...Floyd.

At least the third one seems to be a case of addition by subtraction.

It was actually 2010 when Peavy's shoulder snapped though.

TheVulture
05-27-2013, 01:12 PM
Scott Merkin
Santiago to the bullpen, Axelrod staying at No. 5. More to come on MLB.com

I hate that. No way is Axelrod a better pitcher than Santiago, particularly long term. I get they need a lefty in the pen, but I'd work out the pen after selecting the best five for the rotation if it were up to me.

DonnieDarko
05-27-2013, 01:15 PM
I honestly thing that Santiago is better in the bullpen long-term anyway, if only because of the fact that he throws a screwball. I've tried throwing them before and man...it hurt like hell for me. Surely it would hurt less for someone who's used to throwing it, but that pitch can mess up your elbow and wrist something fierce.

TheVulture
05-27-2013, 01:39 PM
Warren Spahn had a screwball and won 23 games at age 42.

DonnieDarko
05-27-2013, 05:29 PM
Warren Spahn had a screwball and won 23 games at age 42.

And John Smoltz regularly threw the screwball. He also ended up having 2 ligament replacement surgeries in his career. I'm not saying that if you throw a screwball that you WILL have an injury, I'm just saying that it's much more likely. The amount of torque it places on the elbow is rather extreme.