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View Full Version : *Official* 5/22 Seeing "Red"; Red Sox-6 White Sox-2


thomas35forever
05-22-2013, 10:28 PM
Wish we could have gotten a sweep.

Tragg
05-22-2013, 10:32 PM
Our back of the bullpen is questionable. It's hard to get sweeps when we go to them en masse every 3rd or 4th game.
Santiago is really getting good. Tonight, off of 3 days rest.

We're going to have to hit against the Marlins. They won't score much, but we need to hit them.

Lip Man 1
05-22-2013, 10:33 PM
Random Musings:

These guys just can't get back to a game under can they?

Nice to see Paul get the home run but the fact is right now, he and Dunn are killing the club in the middle of the order. Left seven on base tonight. Dunn, the cleanup hitter is batting .163, Konerko at #5 is hitting .224

I'm amazed at how bad Nate Jones looks. I honestly thought this kid was going to be a pretty solid bullpen guy for a long time. Maybe it's the sophomore jinx...maybe he's tipping his pitches but he looks completely clueless.

Speaking of clueless, I give you Brian Omogrosso and Donnie Veal. Brutal, just brtual...have no business being on the roster. I suspect when Danks gets activated, Santiago goes to the bullpen (they have to have a second lefty) and one of these guys is sent back to Charlotte. (Both should be released but that's just my opinion...)

Sox have won seven of the last 11 (which is good) but the offense still isn't close to being even average. In six of those 11 games they've scored three runs or less. The starting pitching has been giving them a chance but the offense still can't seem to consistently produce. Could Beckham make any kind of difference?

Lip

Mohoney
05-22-2013, 10:33 PM
Is there any worse feeling in baseball than watching a bad bullpen give up runs? IMO it's a thousand times worse than watching an offense that can't hit.

tstrike2000
05-22-2013, 11:24 PM
Omogrosso, Jones, and Veal probably shouldn't even be on an MLB roster, but we need the pitching. TFlo is not ready to be a starting catcher.

Lip Man 1
05-22-2013, 11:26 PM
Great point about Flowers.

They let A.J. go and all Flowers has done so far is hit the occasional home run, strike out a ton, hit less than the Mendoza line AND is probably leading the league in passed balls.

Another great move eh?

Lip

LoveYourSuit
05-22-2013, 11:40 PM
Another Don Cooper bullpen implosion in the making here.
It feels like the same story every year. A ton of promise from the pen early and then the train wreck happens.

The guy who almost started the season on the DL and subject of trade rumors is the only shut down arm in the pen (Crain). The rest of them give you fingernail biting every time out. Reed has been good so far too, but there's still a little bit of un-easy feeling for me when he's out there. And his numbers are impressive so far.

shingo10
05-22-2013, 11:53 PM
Omogrosso, Jones, and Veal probably shouldn't even be on an MLB roster, but we need the pitching. TFlo is not ready to be a starting catcher.

Great point about Flowers.

They let A.J. go and all Flowers has done so far is hit the occasional home run, strike out a ton, hit less than the Mendoza line AND is probably leading the league in passed balls.

Another great move eh?

Lip


And on top of that he was touted as a much better defensive catcher than AJ (definitely throws better) but the past two nights he has tried to backhand balls and they have wound up going to the screen. Cost a run tonight. And I don't even know our backups name. Giminez I think? Not a good situation.

shingo10
05-22-2013, 11:55 PM
Another Don Cooper bullpen implosion in the making here.
It feels like the same story every year. A ton of promise from the pen early and then the train wreck happens.

The guy who almost started the season on the DL and subject of trade rumors is the only shut down arm in the pen (Crain). The rest of them give you fingernail biting every time out. Reed has been good so far too, but there's still a little bit of un-easy feeling for me when he's out there. And his numbers are impressive so far.


And it seems like Crain has been used in about all of our games so far so you wonder how long he can keep it up...last night he looked like he was hanging a lot of pitches and he was fortunate to get away with it.

This bullpen and this team are an enigma.

TDog
05-22-2013, 11:58 PM
The Red Sox had their best pitcher going, unbeaten with an ERA under 2, a well rested closer, who has been successful this season, and the White Sox had a bullpen pitcher who replace an injured starter in the rotation who in his last start reminded the Angels that they have a pretty good offense AND he was going on short rest because the staff ace couldn't go tonight.

I can't complain that the White Sox took two of three from the Red Sox this week.

Brian26
05-22-2013, 11:59 PM
Great point about Flowers.

They let A.J. go and all Flowers has done so far is hit the occasional home run, strike out a ton, hit less than the Mendoza line AND is probably leading the league in passed balls.

Another great move eh?

Lip

Come on now. I loved AJ, but the Sox were in no position to hand out another bad contract to a veteran. If you are going to complain about Dunn, then you are not allowed to complain they let AJ go.

JB98
05-23-2013, 12:07 AM
Come on now. I loved AJ, but the Sox were in no position to hand out another bad contract to a veteran. If you are going to complain about Dunn, then you are not allowed to complain they let AJ go.

They wouldn't have had to give out a bad contract to keep Pierzynski though. He only got one year from Texas. The Sox could have matched that deal. I wasn't necessarily opposed to moving on from A.J. What I don't like is they let him go without replacing him. Anyone with an IQ over 15 knew Flowers would not be an adequate replacement. Holes in his swing like swiss cheese, and all that "improved defense" talk was just that -- nothing more than talk.

Getting back to tonight's game, the Sox bullpen is looking thinner and thinner by the day. Once you get past Reed and Crain, there are problems. This was a winnable game until Omogrosso, Jones and Veal came on to commit arson. Santiago pitched a decent ballgame. Just didn't get much help.

Winningugly23
05-23-2013, 01:01 AM
I Agee 125% ur right on the money with all that bro.

SI1020
05-23-2013, 07:08 AM
They wouldn't have had to give out a bad contract to keep Pierzynski though. He only got one year from Texas. The Sox could have matched that deal. I wasn't necessarily opposed to moving on from A.J. What I don't like is they let him go without replacing him. Anyone with an IQ over 15 knew Flowers would not be an adequate replacement. Holes in his swing like swiss cheese, and all that "improved defense" talk was just that -- nothing more than talk.
I agreed with you then and now but IIRC correctly that was not a popular thing to post in the off season. He'll do all right, or give him a chance seemed to be the consensus. That and good riddance to AJ.

doublem23
05-23-2013, 08:34 AM
That and good riddance to AJ.

I'm pretty sure if you look at the "AJ signs with Texas" thread, you'll see a number of people were surprised and dismayed the Sox let him leave for such a small offer from Texas. Yes, most everyone here, I believe, was resigned to see AJ off after they thought his spectacular 2012 season had bought him one last, large multiyear payday, but when the Rangers signed him to 1 year and only a few million bucks, that was surprising.

I'll admit I was wrong about Flowers; I thought Tyler would be fine, at least as a short-term stopgap if not reveal himself to be an OK MLB catcher, but this is going to need to be addressed soon. Whether or not you think the Sox are actually capable of doing anything this season, his level of play has been inexcusably bad.

SCCWS
05-23-2013, 09:15 AM
Random Musings:


Nice to see Paul get the home run but the fact is right now, he and Dunn are killing the club in the middle of the order. Left seven on base tonight. Dunn, the cleanup hitter is batting .163, Konerko at #5 is hitting .224

Lip

Lip: I am disappointed, you being a stat guy. Paulie is hitting over .300 with runners in scoring position. Dunn is hitting .224 but the big problem is Rios who is hitting .179 w runners in scoring position

BainesHOF
05-23-2013, 09:18 AM
Flowers lost me last night. His mental effort is unacceptable. The passed ball was bad enough. At this point, you think he'd be ready to shift his body and block any ball that's even remotely wild. His meek, backhanded stab at the ball smacked of someone who wasn't aware of the situation.

What really disturbed me was his at-bat following that passed ball. He stepped into the box and started a rather lengthy conversation with either the catcher or umpire. Then he snapped out of it just in time for the pitch, as if his at-bat was an afterthought. He proceeded to strike out on four pitches, taking a called third strike.

Hitmen77
05-23-2013, 09:31 AM
They wouldn't have had to give out a bad contract to keep Pierzynski though. He only got one year from Texas. The Sox could have matched that deal. I wasn't necessarily opposed to moving on from A.J. What I don't like is they let him go without replacing him. Anyone with an IQ over 15 knew Flowers would not be an adequate replacement. Holes in his swing like swiss cheese, and all that "improved defense" talk was just that -- nothing more than talk.

Getting back to tonight's game, the Sox bullpen is looking thinner and thinner by the day. Once you get past Reed and Crain, there are problems. This was a winnable game until Omogrosso, Jones and Veal came on to commit arson. Santiago pitched a decent ballgame. Just didn't get much help.

I've come to expect this from the White Sox. Remember when Josh Fields was going to be an All-Star (according to KW) and was going to shock us with his improved defense (according to Joey Cora)? KW was just selling us snake oil with players like Fields, Morel, and Anderson. It looks like that hasn't changed.

....maybe Hahn just didn't have a choice. Perhaps he was told the $7M it would have taken to keep AJ was beyond the payroll limit and it's not like the organization had a lot of valuable prospects available to trade for a serviceable catcher.

Hitmen77
05-23-2013, 09:36 AM
I agreed with you then and now but IIRC correctly that was not a popular thing to post in the off season. He'll do all right, or give him a chance seemed to be the consensus. That and good riddance to AJ.

IMO, the opinion of some fans on internet chat sites has nothing to do with whether Sox management was right in thinking that Flowers would be an acceptable major league starting catcher.

24thStFan
05-23-2013, 09:48 AM
What really disturbed me was his at-bat following that passed ball. He stepped into the box and started a rather lengthy conversation with either the catcher or umpire. Then he snapped out of it just in time for the pitch, as if his at-bat was an afterthought. He proceeded to strike out on four pitches, taking a called third strike.

That's unacceptable. I hope Robin has a stern talk with Tyler :smile:
We need Tyler to do better, there's no alternative.

Golden Sox
05-23-2013, 09:51 AM
It just amazing how bad Veal and Nate Jones have been this year. Both of them had successful seasons in 2012. They both look as if they can't pitch in the big leagues anymore. The longer I have watched baseball, the more I am convinced that most relief pitchers don't have long successful careers. On that subject, one of the pitchers for the bad guys on the Northside just got removed from their roster and is going to be reassigned. Michael Bowden will probably be pitching in Iowa soon if he accepts the assignment. He goes to the same health club I go to and I have friends who know him. He grew up a Cubs fan and was thrilled to be traded from Boston to the Cubs last year. From what I know he's not to thrilled being demoted to the Minor Leagues. I take it he figures he's not in the long range plans of the bad guys on the Northside. His numbers this year are not all that bad, they're certainly better than Veal or Nate Jones this year. I'm sure the White Sox wouldn't have to give up much for him and if that is the case, it wouldn't be that much of a risk to acquire him.

doublem23
05-23-2013, 10:13 AM
I've come to expect this from the White Sox. Remember when Josh Fields was going to be an All-Star (according to KW) and was going to shock us with his improved defense (according to Joey Cora)? KW was just selling us snake oil with players like Fields, Morel, and Anderson. It looks like that hasn't changed.

This is true of all teams, though, not just the Sox. What do you honestly expect the GM to say publicly? This guy sucks but we can't afford anything better right now? Every team has to take on some risks here and there with their roster for a variety of reasons. Even the $200 million payroll Yankees had to take flyers on retreads like Travis Hafner and Vernon Wells early this year to get enough bodies on the field. The Dodgers, who have a seemingly unlimited payroll, have had to give starts to guys like Chris Capuano, Matt Magill, Ted Lilly, and Stephen Fife.

Though, I do contend you putting BA in the same category with Fields and Morel. Everyone knew it was a stretch to think Fields and Morel could become regular contributing players on a successful team. They really were thrust into their positions because the Sox simply had no better answer. BA was a highly touted prospect throughout the baseball community pre-2006. He just simply never lived up to his hype. Even blue chip prospects fail at an alarmingly high rate.

SI1020
05-23-2013, 10:15 AM
IMO, the opinion of some fans on internet chat sites has nothing to do with whether Sox management was right in thinking that Flowers would be an acceptable major league starting catcher. There are some pretty sharp posters on this board and JB is one of them. He called this one correctly. Experts can be wrong. In fact they often are.

asindc
05-23-2013, 10:23 AM
this is true of all teams, though, not just the sox. What do you honestly expect the gm to say publicly? This guy sucks but we can't afford anything better right now? Every team has to take on some risks here and there with their roster for a variety of reasons. even the $200 million payroll yankees had to take flyers on retreads like travis hafner and vernon wells early this year to get enough bodies on the field. The dodgers, who have a seemingly unlimited payroll, have had to give starts to guys like chris capuano, matt magill, ted lilly, and stephen fife.

Though, i do contend you putting ba in the same category with fields and morel. Everyone knew it was a stretch to think fields and morel could become regular contributing players on a successful team. They really were thrust into their positions because the sox simply had no better answer. Ba was a highly touted prospect throughout the baseball community pre-2006. He just simply never lived up to his hype. Even blue chip prospects fail at an alarmingly high rate.

qft.

TaylorStSox
05-23-2013, 10:41 AM
So far, nobody was more wrong about Flowers than me, but AJ wasn't the answer either.

socko82
05-23-2013, 10:54 AM
Great point about Flowers.

They let A.J. go and all Flowers has done so far is hit the occasional home run, strike out a ton, hit less than the Mendoza line AND is probably leading the league in passed balls.

Another great move eh?

Lip

Giminez has 4 passed balls of his own and he only plays once a week. Then you throw in all the wild pitches that should have been blocked, the missed tags and the dropped pop ups. On top of it all they are both automatic outs at the plate. Our catching situation has to be the worst in the league.

Lip Man 1
05-23-2013, 11:27 AM
Come on now. I loved AJ, but the Sox were in no position to hand out another bad contract to a veteran. If you are going to complain about Dunn, then you are not allowed to complain they let AJ go.

Brian:

He signed a one year deal for seven million with Texas. The Sox I understand offered four million. I'm sure there was a number between four and seven that could have kept him here and to me that's not an unreasonable deal for a veteran.

Now if AJ was asking for a multi year deal with the Sox then you have a point and I agree with you.

-----------------------

Or a related note, has anybody noticed what Liriano is doing with Pittsburgh? Where was this last July??

Have been told that former Sox relief pitcher Ray Serage, now the pitching coach with the Pirates is vastly underrated in what he does.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-23-2013, 11:29 AM
Lip: I am disappointed, you being a stat guy. Paulie is hitting over .300 with runners in scoring position. Dunn is hitting .224 but the big problem is Rios who is hitting .179 w runners in scoring position

SCCWS:

I'm a stat guy? First time I've ever been called that. :tongue:

I certainly don't consider myself a stat guy at all. I still think things like BA, HR'S, RBI'S and wins have real meaning.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-23-2013, 11:36 AM
Regarding Jones, am hearing that scouts from other teams still regard him highly and you wonder if this continues, if the Sox would include him in a multi player deal.

Simply can't understand what's wrong. I still think, in my opinion, he's tipping his pitches.

Veal by the way was sent back to Charlotte this morning so I assume Santiago moves into the bullpen and Axelrod stays in the rotation.

Lip

FielderJones
05-23-2013, 11:59 AM
Simply can't understand what's wrong. I still think, in my opinion, he's tipping his pitches.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesna01.shtml

His hit rate is identical to last year. His walk rate is higher by over 1 per 9 innings. To me, that's not tipping pitches, that's not finding the ****ing plate. Jones needs to throw strike 1, get ahead, and stop giving away free passes.

Tragg
05-23-2013, 12:02 PM
Regarding Jones, am hearing that scouts from other teams still regard him highly and you wonder if this continues, if the Sox would include him in a multi player deal.

Simply can't understand what's wrong. I still think, in my opinion, he's tipping his pitches.

Veal by the way was sent back to Charlotte this morning so I assume Santiago moves into the bullpen and Axelrod stays in the rotation.

Lip

No question that Jones has promise. Just don't start dumping our promising young players for declining veterans, especially as the odds that we really contend this year remain against us.

hawkjt
05-23-2013, 12:07 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesna01.shtml

His hit rate is identical to last year. His walk rate is higher by over 1 per 9 innings. To me, that's not tipping pitches, that's not finding the ****ing plate. Jones needs to throw strike 1, get ahead, and stop giving away free passes.


The whole staff,but the bullpen specifically,all have walked too many guys this year.....get it fixed,Coop!

Great comeback by my guy,Hector. He looked dead in the 1st inning,but battled back to give a quality start.
I agree that bullpen guys are rarely consistent year to year,it seems.

Reed is better, Crain is healthier...otherwise everyone is worse.
Getting Hector into the bullpen would help.
Veal was a worldbeater last year...this year..cannot find the plate.
Thornton has to figure it out quickly.

PK hit the ball well last nite...2 for 4 with a homer,and the hardest hit ball could have been a huge key in this game...with bases loaded in the 1st,his rocket right at Gomes was just bad luck. If that gets to the gap, Sox score three and take a lead,and maybe win that game.

Buchholz did settle down,but the Sox had plenty of chances.

doublem23
05-23-2013, 12:15 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesna01.shtml

His hit rate is identical to last year. His walk rate is higher by over 1 per 9 innings. To me, that's not tipping pitches, that's not finding the ****ing plate. Jones needs to throw strike 1, get ahead, and stop giving away free passes.

Yeah. If I remember correctly, Jones was never much of a heralded prospect, even in the Sox's relatively bare organization. He was the Spring Training surprise of 2012 who pitched well enough to earn the 25th spot on the Opening Day roster and stuck around. But bullpen production is notoriously streaky, even for veterans, let alone young guys who made a huge developmental leap. Perhaps having 71 innings of MLB tape on the kid has allowed other teams to scout him a bit better now.

All that said, for as good as Jones' numbers looked last year, let's not forget he allowed something like 45% of all inherited runners to score, as well. So while I do think he has a promising arm, let's not pretend like the guy was coming off a year in which he was flat-out dominant. Stats like W-L record and ERA tell a very, very small part of the story, especially for middle inning relievers.

FielderJones
05-23-2013, 12:20 PM
All that said, for as good as Jones' numbers looked last year, let's not forget he allowed something like 45% of all inherited runners to score, as well.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3054067

Yep, 44% (24 of 54). That number is actually down to 31% this year (5 of 16). I worry less about his inherited runners than I do about the runners he puts on with walks. They seem to score with alarming regularity.

doublem23
05-23-2013, 12:24 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3054067

Yep, 44% (24 of 54). That number is actually down to 31% this year (5 of 16). I worry less about his inherited runners than I do about the runners he puts on with walks. They seem to score with alarming regularity.

Oh yeah, I agree, I merely pointing out that while some of Jones numbers last year looked great (8-0 record, 2.39 ERA, >8 K/9 IP) you're still talking about a guy who had some issues. I don't think it would be fair to him to talk about him like he was lights out last season

JB98
05-23-2013, 12:39 PM
So far, nobody was more wrong about Flowers than me, but AJ wasn't the answer either.

I understood all the reasons for moving on from Pierzynski. He's 36 years old. He wasn't going to duplicate his 2012 numbers. He's never been great defensively. He's a pain in the ass in the clubhouse, etc.

But, all that said, if you're going to move on from a guy, you have to replace him with another guy who is capable of giving you a good 120 games behind the plate. The Sox didn't do that. They simply promoted Flowers for reasons unknown. There was nothing about his previous performance that suggested he could handle the job. He just happened to be around, and he's cheap, so I guess that's all that matters.

As a result, we've got a backup catcher as the starter and a Triple-A catcher as the backup. That position is a major problem for the Sox, and anyone with two eyes and a brain should have been able to see that coming into the season.

"Getting more at-bats" wasn't going to fix all the holes in Flowers' swing. He'll run into a few and knock 'em out of the yard, sure, but he's never going to hit more than .220 with his current approach. And even .220 may be overly optimistic.

asindc
05-23-2013, 01:23 PM
I understood all the reasons for moving on from Pierzynski. He's 36 years old. He wasn't going to duplicate his 2012 numbers. He's never been great defensively. He's a pain in the ass in the clubhouse, etc.

But, all that said, if you're going to move on from a guy, you have to replace him with another guy who is capable of giving you a good 120 games behind the plate. The Sox didn't do that. They simply promoted Flowers for reasons unknown. There was nothing about his previous performance that suggested he could handle the job. He just happened to be around, and he's cheap, so I guess that's all that matters.

As a result, we've got a backup catcher as the starter and a Triple-A catcher as the backup. That position is a major problem for the Sox, and anyone with two eyes and a brain should have been able to see that coming into the season.

"Getting more at-bats" wasn't going to fix all the holes in Flowers' swing. He'll run into a few and knock 'em out of the yard, sure, but he's never going to hit more than .220 with his current approach. And even .220 may be overly optimistic.

He was promoted to see if he could hack it. Apparently, he cannot. There is also the chance that Sox management suspected that he is not the long term answer, but needed him as a stop gap until Phegley or another option became available.

Hitmen77
05-23-2013, 01:47 PM
I understood all the reasons for moving on from Pierzynski. He's 36 years old. He wasn't going to duplicate his 2012 numbers. He's never been great defensively. He's a pain in the ass in the clubhouse, etc.

But, all that said, if you're going to move on from a guy, you have to replace him with another guy who is capable of giving you a good 120 games behind the plate. The Sox didn't do that. They simply promoted Flowers for reasons unknown. There was nothing about his previous performance that suggested he could handle the job. He just happened to be around, and he's cheap, so I guess that's all that matters.

As a result, we've got a backup catcher as the starter and a Triple-A catcher as the backup. That position is a major problem for the Sox, and anyone with two eyes and a brain should have been able to see that coming into the season.

"Getting more at-bats" wasn't going to fix all the holes in Flowers' swing. He'll run into a few and knock 'em out of the yard, sure, but he's never going to hit more than .220 with his current approach. And even .220 may be overly optimistic.

It could be that Sox wanted to, but simply were unable to acquire anyone to replace AJ as opposed to simply deciding to give the job to Flowers.

I don't know what the FA situation was for catchers last year. It could be that Hahn had a payroll limit that he already was at or above and didn't have the ability to sign a veteran catcher. If they were looking to acquire a serviceable catcher via trade, maybe they just didn't have the enough valuable players to trade away to make such an acquisition.

I'm just trying to give Hahn the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't just simply sold on Flowers being good enough to be a major league starting catcher. They probably weren't really expecting the Sox to be serious playoff contenders this year regardless of who was catcher. So, maybe they felt Flowers would be enough of a stop gap for this year.

doublem23
05-23-2013, 01:53 PM
It could be that Sox wanted to, but simply were unable to acquire anyone to replace AJ as opposed to simply deciding to give the job to Flowers.

I don't know what the FA situation was for catchers last year. It could be that Hahn had a payroll limit that he already was at or above and didn't have the ability to sign a veteran catcher. If they were looking to acquire a serviceable catcher via trade, maybe they just didn't have the enough valuable players to trade away to make such an acquisition.

I'm just trying to give Hahn the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't just simply sold on Flowers being good enough to be a major league starting catcher. They probably weren't really expecting the Sox to be serious playoff contenders this year regardless of who was catcher. So, maybe they felt Flowers would be enough of a stop gap for this year.


I sincerely can't believe anyone though Tyler would prove to be THIS BAD if handed the starting job. Last year in limited at bats, he still hit .213/.296/.412. Not great numbers, but better than what he is doing now. His numbers are down across the board. In fact, last year, in his limited time, he did acquire 1.0 WAR, which if extrapolated to 162 games would have been about 2.5-3.0 for a full season, which is acceptable starter-level performance.

I don't fault the Sox at all in seeing what they had with Flowers, but his time has to be running out, especially with Phegley crushing the ball in AAA right now. There's got to come a time when you just throw him to the wolves, too, and see if he can make it.

TheVulture
05-23-2013, 01:57 PM
KW was just selling us snake oil with players like Fields, Morel, and Anderson.


I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to selling snake oil. Those guys all had the ability, they just couldn't hack it for various reasons. Anderson, for example, definitely had the tools, he was just too dumb to succeed at the major league level. There was reason to think all of those guys might succeed, unfortunately they all failed.

TaylorStSox
05-23-2013, 02:22 PM
I understood all the reasons for moving on from Pierzynski. He's 36 years old. He wasn't going to duplicate his 2012 numbers. He's never been great defensively. He's a pain in the ass in the clubhouse, etc.

But, all that said, if you're going to move on from a guy, you have to replace him with another guy who is capable of giving you a good 120 games behind the plate. The Sox didn't do that. They simply promoted Flowers for reasons unknown. There was nothing about his previous performance that suggested he could handle the job. He just happened to be around, and he's cheap, so I guess that's all that matters.

As a result, we've got a backup catcher as the starter and a Triple-A catcher as the backup. That position is a major problem for the Sox, and anyone with two eyes and a brain should have been able to see that coming into the season.u

"Getting more at-bats" wasn't going to fix all the holes in Flowers' swing. He'll run into a few and knock 'em out of the yard, sure, but he's never going to hit more than .220 with his current approach. And even .220 may be overly optimistic.

I think it was a combination of the Sox wanting to see what they had in Flowers, who had an excellent minor league career, and AJ wearing out his welcome with staff. Also, AJ was pathetic behind the plate last year.

Hitmen77
05-23-2013, 02:31 PM
I sincerely can't believe anyone though Tyler would prove to be THIS BAD if handed the starting job. Last year in limited at bats, he still hit .213/.296/.412. Not great numbers, but better than what he is doing now. His numbers are down across the board. In fact, last year, in his limited time, he did acquire 1.0 WAR, which if extrapolated to 162 games would have been about 2.5-3.0 for a full season, which is acceptable starter-level performance.

I don't fault the Sox at all in seeing what they had with Flowers, but his time has to be running out, especially with Phegley crushing the ball in AAA right now. There's got to come a time when you just throw him to the wolves, too, and see if he can make it.

Flowers is 27, so i think you're right about his time running out. I didn't realize it's already been almost 4 years since we first saw Flowers as a September call up.

I'm glad to see Phegley bounce back from the serious illness he had a couple of years ago. Hopefully he can continue the success he's having this year.

Crestani
05-23-2013, 02:54 PM
Great point about Flowers.

They let A.J. go and all Flowers has done so far is hit the occasional home run, strike out a ton, hit less than the Mendoza line AND is probably leading the league in passed balls.

Another great move eh?

Lip


I guarantee he is with runners on third and two outs...!!! He is absolutely brutal at blocking pitches in the dirt, or off the corners a little. I still think Pheagley needs to come up and not wait until September.

Crestani
05-23-2013, 03:03 PM
The whole staff,but the bullpen specifically,all have walked too many guys this year.....get it fixed,Coop!

Great comeback by my guy,Hector. He looked dead in the 1st inning,but battled back to give a quality start.
I agree that bullpen guys are rarely consistent year to year,it seems.

Reed is better, Crain is healthier...otherwise everyone is worse.
Getting Hector into the bullpen would help.
Veal was a worldbeater last year...this year..cannot find the plate.
Thornton has to figure it out quickly.

PK hit the ball well last nite...2 for 4 with a homer,and the hardest hit ball could have been a huge key in this game...with bases loaded in the 1st,his rocket right at Gomes was just bad luck. If that gets to the gap, Sox score three and take a lead,and maybe win that game.

Buchholz did settle down,but the Sox had plenty of chances.


Figure what out? That he can't throw 97 anymore, and that his top 95 MPH straight fastball will not get Major league batters out? Oh, and he has no other picthes he can throw for strikes so the hitter can just wait for that 94-95 straight fastball..?? He is done and hopefully we can get something for him by trade deadline..!!

Brian26
05-23-2013, 07:33 PM
I think it was a combination of the Sox wanting to see what they had in Flowers, who had an excellent minor league career, and AJ wearing out his welcome with staff. Also, AJ was pathetic behind the plate last year.

That is pretty much it. Just because the move has not worked, it does not mean it was the wrong move. It was time to give Flowers a shot with everyday at bats. Handing AJ another contract was not the right move.