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BackInBlack
08-01-2002, 11:30 AM
My Yankee loving buddy is talking about how Mariano Rivera is described as "the best closer ever." This seems to be generally accepted in baseball circles. I seem to recall him blowing the World Series against Mark Grace and Luis Gonzalez. Anybody have his stats in the World Series or have a personal opinion on this matter?

Paulwny
08-01-2002, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
My Yankee loving buddy is talking about how Mariano Rivera is described as "the best closer ever." This seems to be generally accepted in baseball circles. I seem to recall him blowing the World Series against Mark Grace and Luis Gonzalez. Anybody have his stats in the World Series or have a personal opinion on this matter?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riverma01.shtml

Jjav829
08-01-2002, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
My Yankee loving buddy is talking about how Mariano Rivera is described as "the best closer ever." This seems to be generally accepted in baseball circles. I seem to recall him blowing the World Series against Mark Grace and Luis Gonzalez. Anybody have his stats in the World Series or have a personal opinion on this matter?

Sorry, but your Yankee loving buddy is right. Rivera is the best closer ever. True he did blow the World Series last year, but that aside he is one of the best big game closers ever.

BackInBlack
08-01-2002, 02:20 PM
He could be right, Rivera could be the best closer of all time. He asked me to name someone better. I said I really wasn't familiar with the game's greatest closers of all time, and my only arguement was Rivera didn't live up to my definition of "the best closer EVER."

IMO, the role of a closer is to put the fate of the game in his hands when the game is on the line in the last inning. You expect him to persevere through the most intense and extreme circumstances. Mariano Rivera was given the stage, however he failed to execute his job in the most important inning of the year game 7 against the D-backs for the title.

You don't expect "the best closer EVER" to fail in such situations, you expect them to thrive. Maybe the definition is too difficult to attain, maybe there is nobody worthy and Mariano comes closest. I do agree that he definitely deserves consideration for the honor and I acknowledge that he may be the most "consistent" closer of all time. But the best? I expect "the best" to come out on top when it's all on the line.

FarmerAndy
08-01-2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


Sorry, but your Yankee loving buddy is right. Rivera is the best closer ever. True he did blow the World Series last year, but that aside he is one of the best big game closers ever.

I haven't compared numbers yet, but I'm sure that one could make a case for Trevor Hoffman being the best closer ever.

Jjav829
08-01-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
He could be right, Rivera could be the best closer of all time. He asked me to name someone better. I said I really wasn't familiar with the game's greatest closers of all time, and my only arguement was Rivera didn't live up to my definition of "the best closer EVER."

IMO, the role of a closer is to put the fate of the game in his hands when the game is on the line in the last inning. You expect him to persevere through the most intense and extreme circumstances. Mariano Rivera was given the stage, however he failed to execute his job in the most important inning of the year game 7 against the D-backs for the title.

You don't expect "the best closer EVER" to fail in such situations, you expect them to thrive. Maybe the definition is too difficult to attain, maybe there is nobody worthy and Mariano comes closest. I do agree that he definitely deserves consideration for the honor and I acknowledge that he may be the most "consistent" closer of all time. But the best? I expect "the best" to come out on top when it's all on the line.

So wait, your basing your whole decision based on one inning last year? It wasn't like they crushed him either. He made a bad throw to 2nd base, and gave up a weak hit which would have been caught if the infield was playing back. Im sorry but making your decision based on one single game makes no sense. That's like saying Mike Caruso is the best SS ever because he hit a HR to beat the Cubs. Rivera in his career in the postseason has an ERA of about 1.10 with a record of 8-2 and 32 saves in 70 games. Hes not perfect, no one is.

WinningUgly!
08-01-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy


I haven't compared numbers yet, but I'm sure that one could make a case for Trevor Hoffman being the best closer ever.

I'd put Rivera right up there with Eck as the top closers of all time.

BackInBlack
08-01-2002, 02:46 PM
Jjav, I know, he has incredible numbers. I guess my problem is I looked past the numbers to the end result, and the one time I saw a World Series title in his hands, he gave it to the other team. That's all. Maybe I'm crazy.

BTW, what kind of case could we make for Dennis Eck?

34 Inch Stick
08-01-2002, 03:10 PM
Isn't Eck the only pitcher in history with 200 wins and 200 saves?

The best closer ever debate should be easier than other positions. I think there is only about 2 closers in the hall of fame.

You have to throw Rollie Fingers in there and I always thought Goose Gossage was great. For the Cub fans out there Bruce Sutter was great and an inovator.

And then there is Thigpen...

soxrme
08-01-2002, 03:44 PM
HE IS RIGHT. MR IS ONE OF THE BEST IF NOT THE BEST EVER.

Daver
08-01-2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by soxrme
HE IS RIGHT. MR IS ONE OF THE BEST IF NOT THE BEST EVER.

Please turn off the caps lock button on your keyboard.

Thank you.

Tragg
08-01-2002, 04:38 PM
For about 3 years, Bruce Sutter was the best closer of all time.

ISUSoxfan
08-01-2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
And then there is Thigpen...
...who holds the single season save record with 56 in 1990.