PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 5-5 Walking into losses; KC 6 SOX 5 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
05-05-2013, 05:47 PM
Pathetic

ChiSoxGal85
05-05-2013, 05:48 PM
Embarrassing.

kevingrt
05-05-2013, 05:48 PM
Why are you intentionally walking Chris Getz? Really?

Why is Rios not trying in RF?

Tragg
05-05-2013, 05:49 PM
We intentionally walked Chris Getz? Good lord.

mark1529
05-05-2013, 05:50 PM
good grief :(:

Frater Perdurabo
05-05-2013, 05:50 PM
Three of their walks came around to score. That's the difference in today's game.

Bucky F. Dent
05-05-2013, 05:57 PM
Was that a poor effort by Rios, or an injured effort by Rios?

tstrike2000
05-05-2013, 05:59 PM
At least in '07 we didn't start sucking until Memorial Day weekend. Pitiful.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2013, 06:17 PM
Supposedly playing in the WBC helped Rios.....no really that's what some were saying. :?:

3rd game this year the Sox lost when leading in the 7th or later.

1-3 in extra inning games this season...Sox now 6-12 in extra inning games dating back to last year.

Dunn left five men on base today with two strikeouts, yet he continues to hit up in the lineup.

Walks will kill you.

It just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.

Lip

Chez
05-05-2013, 06:40 PM
Congratulations to Coop and Robin for deciding to issue Chris Getz his 3d career IBB (and first since 2010).

Soxman219
05-05-2013, 06:46 PM
Sigh............:(:

Dan H
05-05-2013, 06:49 PM
Supposedly playing in the WBC helped Rios.....no really that's what some were saying. :?:

Dunn left five men on base today with two strikeouts, yet he continues to hit up in the lineup.


Lip

Just out of curiosity I found a Cub fan website yesterday after the Cubbies blew another late inning lead. One actual intelligent Cub fan asked how long were they going to keep bringing in Marmol when he keeps hurting the team. Same goes for the Sox and Dunn.

Tragg
05-05-2013, 06:51 PM
Was that a poor effort by Rios, or an injured effort by Rios?

What do you expect him to do? Dive for it?

shingo10
05-05-2013, 07:01 PM
The Chris Getzs and Wilson Betemits and Jason Nixs of the world always seem to play a pivotal role in beating us. So frustrating.

With Peavy probably heading to the DL any delusions of actually competing this year might be wiped away by the end of this month. And both him and Floyd have lost their trade value (Floyd obviously has none if he's gone for the season)

If Rios is really hurt then his value also diminishes leaving us with....a really bad situation.

Just because I don't like feeling so down I will point out that in 2005 the Astros made the world series after being 15 games under in May. I know their roster was (slightly) better than ours but I just want to believe that this season can turnaround.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2013, 07:08 PM
Shingo:

Even more frustrating is that those type guys (throw Swisher in as well) always seem to actually play well when they leave the Sox, yet suck when they are with them.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Dunn with another team in two years and 'suddenly' start hitting .240 again with 30 home runs and 90 RBI's.

Typical.

Lip

RKMeibalane
05-05-2013, 07:12 PM
Shingo:

Even more frustrating is that those type guys (throw Swisher in as well) always seem to actually play well when they leave the Sox, yet suck when they are with them.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Dunn with another team in two years and 'suddenly' start hitting .240 again with 30 home runs and 90 RBI's.

Typical.

Lip

I have the feeling that team may be in Japan.

SBSoxFan
05-05-2013, 07:20 PM
Three of their walks came around to score. That's the difference in today's game.

Keppinger's play at second in the 5th played a big role as well.

Golden Sox
05-05-2013, 07:31 PM
Why in the world did the White Sox intentionally walk Chris Getz in the 10th inning? This has to be the low point in Robin Venturas decision making as a White Sox manager.

JB98
05-05-2013, 08:11 PM
Everybody knows I hate walks, but in today's case, it was *who* we walked that really bothered me. In both the eighth and ninth innings, we walked the No. 8 and No. 9 hitters back-to-back. Getz and Kottaras? Neither of these two players is a good hitter. They are batting .229 and .222, respectively.

That allowed the lineup to turn over, and it put the Sox in a position where Gordon, Escobar or Butler could hurt them. Butler hurt them in the ninth. Gordon hurt them in the 10th.

You have to make bums like Getz and Kottaras hit their way on. Sox relievers refused to do so. Or in the one case, the bench was inexplicably fearful of Getz and ordered an intentional walk.

That's just bad baseball. It's embarrassing.

Who is more likely to beat you? Getz or Kottaras? Or Butler and Gordon? I think there's an easy answer to that question. So why the hell are we walking Getz and Kottaras?

Tragg
05-05-2013, 08:37 PM
Who is more likely to beat you? Getz or Kottaras? Or Butler and Gordon? I think there's an easy answer to that question. So why the hell are we walking Getz and Kottaras?

I assume the answer is to set up a force. But that makes no sense either, as if he gets on from an infield hit because we couldn't make an easy throw for a force, we're in the exact same spot as if we had intentionally walked him. So that doesn't make any sense either.

Chez
05-05-2013, 08:43 PM
Who is a worse defensive second baseman Keppinger or Lillibridge? Lillibridge was horrible at 2B. Keppinger is pretty bad too.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2013, 08:49 PM
Sox have now lost 13 of the last 17 games in Kansas City.

Starting to look like another Oakland in the early 00's and then Minnesota from say 03 through the end of the Metrodome.

Lip

RKMeibalane
05-05-2013, 09:29 PM
Who is a worse defensive second baseman Keppinger or Lillibridge? Lillibridge was horrible at 2B. Keppinger is pretty bad too.

Every time I see Lillibridge's name, I think of that poor child whose parents videotaped him crying about the trade with Boston. I also find myself thinking about a former poster who insisted on calling him "the elf," for reasons I don't even begin to understand.

amsteel
05-05-2013, 09:37 PM
We all knew they were gonna lose 2 in KC. Too bad they only played 2.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2013, 09:43 PM
They play again tomorrow, the make up game from Friday night.

Asked Gonzo if Robin said anything about why they walked Getz. Gonzo replied that Robin said, "you got to pick one of them (left handed hitters)." He said without saying it that facing Kottaras was the better option."

I'm assuming part of the decision making process was because the Sox only had one left handed relief pitcher on the roster now with Thornton.

Lip

ChiSoxGal85
05-05-2013, 10:34 PM
Was that a poor effort by Rios, or an injured effort by Rios?

What do you expect him to do? Dive for it?

I thought Rios just didn't read the ball off the bat. It seemed he hesitated for a second, just long enough to make it impossible to catch. Damn bad time for a bad read, that's for sure.

Jurr
05-05-2013, 10:52 PM
The only good thing about days like this is the fact that it puts this roster closer to the enema it needs.

Dump salary. Get prospects. Let the veterans waste payroll somewhere else on a team that can get that last little bit of production and motivation out of them.

Noneck
05-05-2013, 11:01 PM
Get prospects.

Thats not going to be so easy. Rios may get you some, will Thornton, Crain? Forget Floyd, Peavy now maybe not much. Ramirez salary may negate the type of prospect you can get. Paul if he wants out wont get the Sox much. There isnt anyone else. Its easy to say get prospects but a heck of a lot harder to actually be able to do it.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2013, 11:11 PM
What I'll be curious when all is said and done to this season, if it continues to head south is this...does the organization honestly feel the injuries derailed what could have been a winning group or do they feel it's time for a rebuild and a change in some philosophies.

I have no idea how they would look at things. Injuries in fact are crippling this club but even if everyone stayed healthy would they be able to 'contend?' Guess that depends on your definition of contending doesn't it?

Tough question but one that at least has to be asked by the front office.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-05-2013, 11:11 PM
Thats not going to be so easy. Rios may get you some, will Thornton, Crain? Forget Floyd, Peavy now maybe not much. Ramirez salary may negate the type of prospect you can get. Paul if he wants out wont get the Sox much. There isnt anyone else. Its easy to say get prospects but a heck of a lot harder to actually be able to do it.

Especially with this organization no?

Lip

Noneck
05-05-2013, 11:34 PM
Especially with this organization no?

Lip


Indubitable

DrCrawdad
05-05-2013, 11:43 PM
Was that a poor effort by Rios, or an injured effort by Rios?

That looked like a catchable ball.

Supposedly playing in the WBC helped Rios.....no really that's what some were saying. :?:

3rd game this year the Sox lost when leading in the 7th or later.

1-3 in extra inning games this season...Sox now 6-12 in extra inning games dating back to last year.

Dunn left five men on base today with two strikeouts, yet he continues to hit up in the lineup.

Walks will kill you.

It just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.

Lip

Awful defense, awful offense, pitching one step behind the opposition. This is an ugly recipe.

SoxSpeed22
05-06-2013, 12:05 AM
I'm not going to hold that last one against Rios, although you have to worry about what the team's struggles are going to do to him as the season goes on.
I'm all for blowing it up, but there really isn't much to work with in the big team and the other levels.

Tragg
05-06-2013, 12:17 AM
Thats not going to be so easy. Rios may get you some, will Thornton, Crain? Forget Floyd, Peavy now maybe not much. Ramirez salary may negate the type of prospect you can get. Paul if he wants out wont get the Sox much. There isnt anyone else. Its easy to say get prospects but a heck of a lot harder to actually be able to do it.

The relievers should bring prospects. Lindstrom, Crain, Thornton - pitchers like that have brought decent returns.
If Peavy could pitch, he should bring someone really good. Even better, if we pick up salary.

Noneck
05-06-2013, 12:23 AM
The relievers should bring prospects. Lindstrom, Crain, Thornton - pitchers like that have brought decent returns.


I forgot about Lindstrom but all 3 are FA's after this year. You think the Sox can get good prospects for a couple months?

JB98
05-06-2013, 01:29 AM
I forgot about Lindstrom but all 3 are FA's after this year. You think the Sox can get good prospects for a couple months?

I don't.

I oppose the nuclear option because I don't believe these players are nearly as valuable on the trade market as many here believe.

IMO, the bounty of prospects everyone wants or thinks the Sox are going to get is not forthcoming.

StillMissOzzie
05-06-2013, 02:10 AM
I'm putting this loss on Addison Reed's shoulders. In the 9th, Keppinger's muffed potential double play was water under the bridge, and he started the 9th with a two run lead. He then walks two guys who both come around to score.

I know Steve Stone says that with closers, saves are all that matters, but I for one am getting a bit weary of Reed's ineffectiveness being glossed over with a save. Can't this guy just come in and retire the side in order for a change?

SMO
:angry:

Noneck
05-06-2013, 05:18 AM
I oppose the nuclear option because I don't believe these players are nearly as valuable on the trade market as many here believe.



What other choice is there but the nuclear option with the upcoming FAs? Pick up their options?

Hartman
05-06-2013, 09:03 AM
The lack of offense and hitting with RISP is a problem, but the fact is, our good pitching staff walks too many hitters at critical points in games.

doublem23
05-06-2013, 09:05 AM
The lack of offense and hitting with RISP is a problem, but the fact is, our good pitching staff walks too many hitters at critical points in games.

Truth. This has been an issue since September.

dickallen15
05-06-2013, 09:29 AM
Considering the White Sox track record developing draft picks, why, unless you want something to complain about for the next 10-15 years, would anyone want them to go into a total rebuild? Do people really want to see guys in Chicago that are having a tough time playing in Charlotte and Birmingham?

Jerko
05-06-2013, 09:37 AM
Everybody knows I hate walks, but in today's case, it was *who* we walked that really bothered me. In both the eighth and ninth innings, we walked the No. 8 and No. 9 hitters back-to-back. Getz and Kottaras? Neither of these two players is a good hitter. They are batting .229 and .222, respectively.

That allowed the lineup to turn over, and it put the Sox in a position where Gordon, Escobar or Butler could hurt them. Butler hurt them in the ninth. Gordon hurt them in the 10th.

You have to make bums like Getz and Kottaras hit their way on. Sox relievers refused to do so. Or in the one case, the bench was inexplicably fearful of Getz and ordered an intentional walk.

That's just bad baseball. It's embarrassing.

Who is more likely to beat you? Getz or Kottaras? Or Butler and Gordon? I think there's an easy answer to that question. So why the hell are we walking Getz and Kottaras?


If you're afraid of Chirs friggin Getz, you need a new job. Omgrosso (sp) isn't good enough to be putting anybody on base on purpose. Like you said; that was one batter closer to turning over the lineup. I can't stand this "managing scared" bull**** either. IT'S CHRIS GETZ.

Frater Perdurabo
05-06-2013, 09:52 AM
JB is right; our veterans will not fetch the prospects for which we clamor.

SI1020
05-06-2013, 10:02 AM
JB is right; our veterans will not fetch the prospects for which we clamor. Yes he is and that shows how dire the situation is right now. It very well could be very tough in the next few years.

Frater Perdurabo
05-06-2013, 10:05 AM
Yes he is and that shows how dire the situation is right now. It very well could be very tough in the next few years.

Actually, I feel good about the state of our pitching.

Fixing the hitting requires drafting, signing and developing better position players.

35th and Shields
05-06-2013, 11:53 AM
Considering the White Sox track record developing draft picks, why, unless you want something to complain about for the next 10-15 years, would anyone want them to go into a total rebuild? Do people really want to see guys in Chicago that are having a tough time playing in Charlotte and Birmingham?

Yes. I can't stand watching the same, going through the motion product on the field anymore. I know they're trying and playing all out, but sometimes it really doesn't look like it. I could at least get excited about some young guys playing with energy and passion. Something we haven't seen in years. How much worse would we be? Our pitching is the ONLY thing winning/keeping us in games. A random guy in A ball could hit as well as Dunn and a few others our team. It's a joke. Keep the staff intact, everyone else is available.

SI1020
05-06-2013, 12:02 PM
Actually, I feel good about the state of our pitching.

Fixing the hitting requires drafting, signing and developing better position players. You do? How much can you depend on Danks, Peavy and Floyd? I know there has been a lot of chippiness lately so I'm just asking and not trying to start a you don't what you're talking about type of argument.

Huisj
05-06-2013, 01:35 PM
To all who think the Sox will be able to help the rebuilding process through trading a bunch of mediocre players, consider the list of guys they've received in the last decade or so when trying to trade established players for prospects or young guys (with the guys they traded in parentheses):


Corey Lee (Herbert Perry trade)
Ryan Meaux and Felix Diaz (Kenny Lofton)
Byeong Hak An and Frank Francisco (Bob Howry)
Neal Cotts and Daylon Holt with Billy Koch (Keith Foulke, Mark Johnson, Joe Valentine)
Travis Hinton with Podsednik and Vizcaino (Carlos Lee)
Carlos Vasquez and David Aardsma (Neal Cotts)
Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez (Freddy Garcia)
Andy Sisco (Ross Gload)
Jacob Rasner, John Danks, Nick Massett (Brandon McCarthy and David Paisano)
Michael Dubee (Tadahito Iguchi)
Jon Link (Rob Mackowiak)
Wilson Betemit, Jeff Marquez, Jhonny Nunez (Nick Swisher and Kanekoa Texeira)
Jon Gilmore, Santos Rodriguez, Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge (Javy Vazquez, Boone Logan)
Justin Fuller (Jim Thome)
Brandon Hynick (Jose Contreras)
Kyle Cofield (Scott Linebrink)
Jason Frasor, Zach Stewart (Edwin Jackson and Mark Teahen)
Jhan Marinez, Osvaldo Martinez (Ozzie Guillen)
Nestor Molina (Sergio Santos)
Simon Castro, Pedro Hernandez (Carlos Quentin)
Daniel Webb, Myles Jaye (Jason Frasor)


I put guys who were not yet established big-leaguers and have contributed something sort of positive in bold.

So, all those trades basically got us Floyd, Danks, Flowers, a year of Cotts, and a little flash of Lillibridge plus some Griffey Jr. (via Nick Massett). That's not much to build around.

Noneck
05-06-2013, 02:03 PM
Actually, I feel good about the state of our pitching.

Fixing the hitting requires drafting, signing and developing better position players.


How long will this way of fixing the hitting take? 4-5 years if they draft the right players, develop them correctly and of course get lucky. Wheres their pitching going to be at that point?

JB98
05-06-2013, 03:11 PM
What other choice is there but the nuclear option with the upcoming FAs? Pick up their options?

The other choice is to do nothing. Play out the season and regroup in the winter.

You can trade veteran relievers with expiring contracts, sure, but you're not going to get anything other than a couple months of salary relief and maybe an organizational player or two.

I hate to say it, but nobody is going to give up a big prospect to have Crain, Lindstrom or Thornton on their team for a couple months.

Also, somebody has to take those roster spots at the big-league level in the short run. Do the Sox have any prospects at all who are prepared for an opportunity? I'm not sure. I don't want to rush kids who aren't ready just for the sake of saving a couple months salary on a couple guys.

It isn't like holding on to veterans is going to hurt this team's draft position. They are going to lose plenty of games regardless.

The Immigrant
05-06-2013, 03:34 PM
So, all those trades basically got us Floyd, Danks, Flowers, a year of Cotts, and a little flash of Lillibridge plus some Griffey Jr. (via Nick Massett). That's not much to build around.

Don't forget a few months of Kevin Youkilis (via Zach Stewart).

Thanks, by the way, for putting that list together. It really made my day. I will now go jump off the Wells Street bridge with a half-dozen bricks strapped to my chest.

Jurr
05-06-2013, 03:45 PM
So, the Sox get nada for their vets and give up their best bullets for overpriced vets?
Sounds about right. If Kenny Williams didn't catch lightning in a bottle that one year, he would be pelted with old produce every time he set foot out of his house.

TomBradley72
05-06-2013, 04:20 PM
We're old.

We're over priced (Dunn, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Thornton).

We have back ups as starters (De Aza, Flowers, Koeppinger)

We have almost nothing of value at AAA or AA.

It's not much better at the lower levels.

Our manager declined an extension offer.

If we were to "rebuild" we'd be building around Viciedo, Beckham and Gillaspie- not much else.

This will be our 5th consecutive season, 7th out of the last 8, 11th out of the last 13, without getting to the post season.

We lost our pre-game montage video and the diamond patch on the shoulder.

Looks like the late 70's, 80's, 90's- all over again.

SI1020
05-06-2013, 10:18 PM
We're old.

We're over priced (Dunn, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Thornton).

We have back ups as starters (De Aza, Flowers, Koeppinger)

We have almost nothing of value at AAA or AA.

It's not much better at the lower levels.

Our manager declined an extension offer.

If we were to "rebuild" we'd be building around Viciedo, Beckham and Gillaspie- not much else.

This will be our 5th consecutive season, 7th out of the last 8, 11th out of the last 13, without getting to the post season.

We lost our pre-game montage video and the diamond patch on the shoulder.

Looks like the late 70's, 80's, 90's- all over again. I wish I could take some issue with this but I can't. Ouch.

SI1020
05-06-2013, 10:23 PM
So, the Sox get nada for their vets and give up their best bullets for overpriced vets?
Sounds about right. If Kenny Williams didn't catch lightning in a bottle that one year, he would be pelted with old produce every time he set foot out of his house. Kenny did much better work when he only had 50 cents to spend, than he did when he had the whole dollar.

Noneck
05-06-2013, 10:51 PM
Kenny did much better work when he only had 50 cents to spend, than he did when he had the whole dollar.

Maybe he was allowed to spend his 50cents without getting permission how to spend it. When he gets a buck, hes told how to spend it.