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View Full Version : The fall of the defense


thomas35forever
04-30-2013, 08:59 PM
It just amazes me how one of the most defensively proficient teams in the history of the franchise could suddenly turn into the laughable bunch we're seeing right now. Everyone from the rookies to the newbies to the veterans are making mistakes uncharacteristic to the last bunch. I wasn't expecting them to repeat 2012 in that regard, but how could they take such a nosedive so quickly? At the very least, I thought they'd remain above average. It's hard to believe we're seeing a lot of the same players. They better straighten up over the final five months or we're going to see a lot more games lost this way. I'll deal with the ****ty offense. Just get the defense back in order.

all*star quentin
04-30-2013, 09:10 PM
Tyler Greene at 3rd, Conor at 2nd, Alejandro playing left, and T-Flo and Gimenez catching. This isn't the same 2012 defense.

EDIT: I forgot, Dunn's playing 1st.

Frater Perdurabo
04-30-2013, 09:23 PM
DeAza has looked inept out in left tonight.

Jurr
04-30-2013, 09:38 PM
Yeah, this team is bad.
Let us hope that Hahn knows how to leverage veterans into good prospects.

Consider it a "Reverse Williams Maneuver".

amsteel
04-30-2013, 09:43 PM
Is there a correlation between defensive performance in year x and defensive performance in year x+1? There might not be.

Hitmen77
04-30-2013, 09:44 PM
This team/organization just looks sloppy all around. Sloppy defense on the field just fits with everything else. It really makes me wonder if the guys in charge really know what they're doing to let this franchise fall to such an inept level.

WhiteSox5187
04-30-2013, 09:53 PM
This team/organization just looks sloppy all around. Sloppy defense on the field just fits with everything else. It really makes me wonder if the guys in charge really know what they're doing to let this franchise fall to such an inept level.

Well, assuming Hahn has total control over personnel choices, he has to clean up the mess left behind by Kenny and that wasn't going to happen overnight or during one off season. If Kenny still has a lot of say in personnel moves though, the White Sox might be in a LOT trouble.

Lip Man 1
04-30-2013, 10:29 PM
Also don't underestimate the players in this. They might have simply eased off things, not staying mentally sharp, that turn into physical ones.

In 1995 Robin and the Sox got off to a horrid start defensively, in fact they had a bad strike shortened season.

Years later both Robin and Alex Fernandez admitted that mentally they just weren't into things.

Lip

asindc
04-30-2013, 10:53 PM
Also don't underestimate the players in this. They might have simply eased off things, not staying mentally sharp, that turn into physical ones.

In 1995 Robin and the Sox got off to a horrid start defensively, in fact they had a bad strike shortened season.

Years later both Robin and Alex Fernandez admitted that mentally they just weren't into things.

Lip

It is always the players' fault when they don't play well. Always.

JB98
05-01-2013, 01:35 AM
Also don't underestimate the players in this. They might have simply eased off things, not staying mentally sharp, that turn into physical ones.

In 1995 Robin and the Sox got off to a horrid start defensively, in fact they had a bad strike shortened season.

Years later both Robin and Alex Fernandez admitted that mentally they just weren't into things.

Lip

Yeah, I don't know that I can blame the coaches for De Aza looking like **** in left field.

I suppose I could blame the coaches for moving him to LF, but that's about it.

Noneck
05-01-2013, 04:58 AM
I remember late last year when De Aza chose to play left rather than center. This year a starting cfer shouldnt be playing left while AAAA guys are playing center. But I think its his choice.

wassagstdu
05-01-2013, 07:47 AM
Yeah, I don't know that I can blame the coaches for De Aza looking like **** in left field.

It looks to me like DeAza is playing hurt. He seems to be favoring one leg when he runs -- not limping exactly but favoring one leg.

TomBradley72
05-01-2013, 08:04 AM
DeAza is a 4th/5th OF on a good team- average everything on defense, no plus skills other than speed.

TCM seems to be playing "sleepy" to me.

Dunn is a downgrade from PK, PK is aging.

Flowers is nothing special.

Gillaspie/Koeppinger are stop gaps for the hole at 3rd since Crede left.

Beckham is sorely missed on defense.

A very blah team- back up the truck.

TaylorStSox
05-01-2013, 08:07 AM
De Aza has never been a good defender and I'm not sure why he ever had that reputation. Last night, he got one of the worst breaks on a ball I've seen in a long time (breaking in on an absolute rocket). The rest of the defensive lapses I saw last night were from back ups or guys playing out of position.

Irishsox1
05-01-2013, 09:42 AM
The team being fielded right now, with all of the injuries and old players is the worst Sox team I've seen since the 1987-1989 teams.

It's sucks but it's the nature of pro sports. The build up, the success and then the slow decline.

We're in the decline and could be here for a couple of years.

LITTLE NELL
05-01-2013, 12:01 PM
The team being fielded right now, with all of the injuries and old players is the worst Sox team I've seen since the 1987-1989 teams.

It's sucks but it's the nature of pro sports. The build up, the success and then the slow decline.

We're in the decline and could be here for a couple of years.

I'm going to go back to 68,69 and 70 seasons as the most depressing years for me, there is nothing right now that excites me about the future of this club.
and I'm getting depressed to the point of those years I mentioned. The current roster has a lot of bad players and there is no help in the minors so things could get a lot worse before they get better.

amsteel
05-01-2013, 12:30 PM
Is there a correlation between defensive performance in year x and defensive performance in year x+1? There might not be.

There is: R=0.6358. There's plenty of variability, but statistically this shouldn't be happening.

http://homepage.smc.edu/nestler_andrew/mathmag.jpg

Hitmen77
05-01-2013, 03:37 PM
Well, assuming Hahn has total control over personnel choices, he has to clean up the mess left behind by Kenny and that wasn't going to happen overnight or during one off season. If Kenny still has a lot of say in personnel moves though, the White Sox might be in a LOT trouble.

Hahn was also part of Kenny's management team that brought us this mess over the last 5 years. I'm doubtful there's going to be a change in how the organization builds this team. Maybe the biggest change we'll see is less of KW's "gun slinging" way of running the team, but it's still essentially the same management team

The team being fielded right now, with all of the injuries and old players is the worst Sox team I've seen since the 1987-1989 teams.

It's sucks but it's the nature of pro sports. The build up, the success and then the slow decline.

We're in the decline and could be here for a couple of years.

At least in 1989, even though the Sox were on their way to a last place finish, they had a ton of promising prospects. I actually found that year a little exciting because it looked to me like a good solid nucleus was about to arrive in a year or two. I have absolutely no indication of that now. I suppose Hawkins is someone who could maybe be a star for us in 3 years or so, and it sounds like there are a few pitching prospects who could turn out to be decent. But it doesn't appear that there is a new core of competitive talent coming any time soon.

Tragg
05-01-2013, 04:31 PM
If it weren't for the starting pitching, this team would rival the 1970 Sox for the worst team in my lifetime.

TaylorStSox
05-01-2013, 05:17 PM
If it weren't for the starting pitching, this team would rival the 1970 Sox for the worst team in my lifetime.

Remember the good ol days when we waited til at least June to make these kind of definitive statements? My god, some of you guys need a hug.:D:

GoSox2K3
05-02-2013, 09:15 AM
Yeah, this team is bad.
Let us hope that Hahn knows how to leverage veterans into good prospects.

Consider it a "Reverse Williams Maneuver".

I really hope so. When was the last time the Sox successfully traded a veteran player for a prospect that ever did anything? We might have to go back to Danks and Floyd (in 2007) for that.

Since then, we traded Edwin Jackson away for failed or failing prospects, we traded Nick Swisher for garbage, we traded Quentin for Simon Castro and I don't know if he's expected to pan out. The track record has been pretty abysmal. ....and if Hahn was part of the decision making team on KW's recent trades, I'm not looking forward to seeing what new bag of balls we get for our current veterans.