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View Full Version : *Official* 4-28 Walks, errors, Axe yet another quality start; TB 8 SOX 3 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
04-28-2013, 05:24 PM
Such a shame to continue wasting quality starts...

amsteel
04-28-2013, 05:27 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgc9rbILYD1qburhno1_500.jpg

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2013, 05:27 PM
Such a shame to continue wasting quality starts...

We're not a good baseball team. Simple as that. I don't think we're this bad, but we are certainly not good.

LITTLE NELL
04-28-2013, 05:29 PM
4 games under with 15 out of the next 18 on the road, this isn't good.

SoxSpeed22
04-28-2013, 05:29 PM
I get we're not a great offensive team, but the defensive lapses are quite alarming.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2013, 05:33 PM
When you think about it folks this was pretty much a typical Sox performance this season:

Three lousy runs...
Six lousy hits...
Two costly errors...
12 more strikeouts...

Frankly I was shocked the Sox actually got three runs off Price considering they ran out a triple A lineup.

It is what it is and probably won't get much better even if the injured guys make quick recoveries.

Lip

BigKlu59
04-28-2013, 05:37 PM
4 games under with 15 out of the next 18 on the road, this isn't good.

Talk about going from the frying pan and into the fire... Definitely a "character building" or "capitulating" next stretch.. We'll see.. Time to break out the Talismans...

BK59

Lip Man 1
04-28-2013, 05:43 PM
Just saw this comment from Robin: "There are opportunities that guys need to take advantage of. If it doesn’t happen for us, there are other teams that are looking at them when they get opportunities.”

My impression is that Robin is preparing everyone for what could be (probably??) a fire sale come July.

Oh Heath also looks as bad as Septimo (and that's about as bad as you can get...)

Lip

shingo10
04-28-2013, 05:47 PM
I know Hahn said "let's wait and see" in regards to a firesale but you really have to wonder if we need to move now before things gets worse. Floyd's value is already diminished. What if Peavy or Rios gets hurt? We are lucky enough to have a few guys that other teams might want so I hope we are least testing the waters.

The offense is one big mess. Not really set up to score other than homeruns, and there is no flow to it at all.

Maybe these 15 road games coming up will somehow be a positive turning point going forward. All we can hope for.

amsteel
04-28-2013, 05:52 PM
Darvish might strike out 15+ on Tuesday

amsteel
04-28-2013, 05:53 PM
I know Hahn said "let's wait and see" in regards to a firesale but you really have to wonder if we need to move now before things gets worse. Floyd's value is already diminished. What if Peavy or Rios gets hurt?

Floyd's value is zero right now, Konerko will get hot in June then the phone will start ringing. Rios and Peavy are the only movable pieces right now.

amsteel
04-28-2013, 05:58 PM
Tekotte sent down, TBD which underperformer will be called up.

https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/328626439865913344

Lip Man 1
04-28-2013, 06:04 PM
Amsteel:

Does it even matter? :D:

Lip

amsteel
04-28-2013, 06:15 PM
Amsteel:

Does it even matter? :D:

Lip

Yes, only insofar as if its a reliever it determines who will squander the next quality start.

Wedema
04-28-2013, 06:19 PM
After Jones pitched an easy seventh inning, he struggled with his control in the eighth and Robin left him in two batters too long. Thornton was ready in the pen but he left Jones in to face Joyce and Zobrist who got the big hit.

Soxman219
04-28-2013, 06:30 PM
15 of next 18 on the road? I see only 5 wins. I have no confidence in any hitter on this team.

MarySwiss
04-28-2013, 06:35 PM
Looking to buy a new Sox T-shirt. I was trying to decide which player's shirt to buy. After today, my decision became simple--NONE.

This team is embarrassing! :angry:

TDog
04-28-2013, 06:37 PM
When you think about it folks this was pretty much a typical Sox performance this season:

Three lousy runs...
Six lousy hits...
Two costly errors...
12 more strikeouts...

Frankly I was shocked the Sox actually got three runs off Price considering they ran out a triple A lineup.

It is what it is and probably won't get much better even if the injured guys make quick recoveries.

Lip

Typical if you ignore the fact that Axelrod was even with Pirce after six. Price is a superior pitcher. He came into the game with an ERA infated by two rough games, particularly a 13-0 loss to the Indians in his second start, but he was the more skilled starter in today's game.

This was a game the Sox could have won and probably should have won, even with the score tied after six. Every loss but Saturday's on this homestand was lost by the bullpen, a couple with the help of defensive lapses. And the bullpen played a factor in Saturday's loss.

I think the game turned, no twith the game-tying home run against Axelrod, but with the line-drive double play. The Sox seemed to be getting to Price, who may have been in the game too long because he wanted to get his first win, which he couldn't get if he left with the score tied. If Flowers gets the ball though the infield, the Sox have a very good chance of at least pushing across a run. That woudl have been a different ballgame. I don't know if Ventura tries to get another inning out of Jones

If the Sox had the lead. If the game is tied late, you don't want to burn too many pitchers, and I can see how it's tempting to leave Jones in for another inning. He has such great stuff. Unfortunately, he is often behind in the count. While his stuff is good enough to pitch from behind in the count he isn't as effective after he puts runners on basse. I don't know if he tires after one inning, necesarily, althogh a couple of times this year he has had bad second innngs. It might be that he stiffens up on the bench or he loses his rhythm.

The game was still winnable when Thornton got Loney, but the error let it get away, reminiscent of a Rays win with Juan Pierre dropping a fly iin left a couple of Aprils ago. All hope seemed lost when Rios finished a brutal inning by grouning into the double play. Ventura putting in the pitcher who just got into town for the ninth to give up two more tells me he is concerned about overworking his bullpen.

Really, I think the Sox have a pretty good bullpen, but this weekend, this homestand doesn't back that up.

Tragg
04-28-2013, 06:39 PM
Ventura just has this habit of leaving these reliever in too long. Two days in a row 1 reliever essentially pitched us out of a game.

I don't Ventura has the stomach for what this season looks like it's going to be.

Tragg
04-28-2013, 06:42 PM
Floyd's value is zero right now, Konerko will get hot in June then the phone will start ringing. Rios and Peavy are the only movable pieces right now.

And Sale. I realize we don't want to move him, but you have to listen.

Peavy should bring high value. Somebody will pay it. Rios - pretty decent, as RH hitters are in demand. No special deals for friendly teams....they all can pay. Let the bidding begin.

amsteel
04-28-2013, 07:13 PM
And Sale. I realize we don't want to move him, but you have to listen.


If they move Sale there would be MASSIVE revolt from Sox fans. Too young, too much potential. It may not pan out (looking at you Gordon Beckham) but you can't move him now.

Brian26
04-28-2013, 07:20 PM
I know Hahn said "let's wait and see" in regards to a firesale but you really have to wonder if we need to move now before things gets worse. Floyd's value is already diminished. What if Peavy or Rios gets hurt? We are lucky enough to have a few guys that other teams might want so I hope we are least testing the waters.

The maximum value in a trade would be obtained in a deal right before the deadline. With the extra wild card in play, it is entirely too early for any team to know where they stand. You are going to give Peavy away if you try to trade him now.

Brewski
04-28-2013, 07:21 PM
Lip

No possible way you could have any other impression. Back up the truck!

RCWHITESOX
04-28-2013, 08:01 PM
Lip

No possible way you could have any other impression. Back up the truck!

Why in the world would you want to trade Peavy,Sale, or any of other young players under contracts. Do you want to turn this team into the Astros. Sure they need to improve ;and but dumping all there good young players isn't the answer. Unfortunately it's going to take time to develop more good young players. Free agency isn't the way to go just ask Toronto or the Angels. Williams did a great job in 2005the but in doing so he decemated the farm system. I just hope Hahn will set things right.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2013, 08:35 PM
RC:

Brewski was commenting on Robin's comment. I was wondering what he meant by it and speculated that Robin could be preparing everyone for a fire sale.

You have to think this at least has already been discussed by Hahn and his staff.

They see what's happening just as much as the players themselves and the fans.

Why do it? Well if you are going to try to rebuild I assume you can get more by trading younger players under contract for a few years. But those that follow the minor leagues more closely can weigh in if that's true or not.

Lip

LITTLE NELL
04-28-2013, 08:46 PM
RC:

Brewski was commenting on Robin's comment. I was wondering what he meant by it and speculated that Robin could be preparing everyone for a fire sale.

You have to think this at least has already been discussed by Hahn and his staff.

They see what's happening just as much as the players themselves and the fans.

Why do it? Well if you are going to try to rebuild I assume you can get more by trading younger players under contract for a few years. But those that follow the minor leagues more closely can weigh in if that's true or not.

Lip

I would build around Sale, Peavy, Quintana, Jones, Reed and maybe Beckham and Viciedo. I'd love to see PK finish his career in a Sox uni, everybody else can go.

JB98
04-28-2013, 08:59 PM
After Jones pitched an easy seventh inning, he struggled with his control in the eighth and Robin left him in two batters too long. Thornton was ready in the pen but he left Jones in to face Joyce and Zobrist who got the big hit.

Three batters too long. Jones faced Joyce, Zobrist AND Longoria. He retired none of them. Thornton should have been in to face Joyce and Zobrist. Then, if the inning is still going, you go to Crain for Longoria. It wasn't all Robin's fault. That was boneheaded managing, but damn, the players didn't execute worth a **** either.

I'd also like to note that there isn't going to be any "firesale" until at least July. Be careful what you wish for, folks. I know it's bad right now, but yes, it can get worse. Remember, every player who gets traded needs to be replaced by *somebody*. I don't want to hear any "Just play the kids" ****. We don't have any kids to play.

Golden Sox
04-28-2013, 09:16 PM
This team is not the same team we had on Opening Day. We're minus Beckham, Tank and this past weekend Keppinger. That's three everyday players the White Sox were counting on heavily in 2013. I'm hoping Keppinger is back this Tuesday. He was starting to hit and he got hurt. This eight game road trip can be a diffucult one. I hope we get out of it with at least 4 wins. I'm also hoping Hahn makes a move to improve this team offensively, sooner rather than later.

shingo10
04-28-2013, 09:27 PM
I'd also like to note that there isn't going to be any "firesale" until at least July. Be careful what you wish for, folks. I know it's bad right now, but yes, it can get worse. Remember, every player who gets traded needs to be replaced by *somebody*. I don't want to hear any "Just play the kids" ****. We don't have any kids to play.


I just think that if an injury pops up for another team in which they have a need that we could supply why not get going with it? I fear any value guy we have will be worth nothing by the time July rolls around. We are simply spinning our wheels and we are already playing Greene, Gillaspie, Flowers, and Danks. Our lineup is not major league quality as is. Yes it can get worse but this is not working. Beckham and Tank will certainly help when they return but it might be too late by then if we continue to not win series.

amsteel
04-28-2013, 09:30 PM
I would build around Sale, Peavy, Quintana, Jones, Reed and maybe Beckham and Viciedo. I'd love to see PK finish his career in a Sox uni, everybody else can go.

PK can go and still get resigned in the winter.

I like that list minus Beckham plus Alexei.

Wedema
04-28-2013, 09:55 PM
Typical if you ignore the fact that Axelrod was even with Pirce after six. Price is a superior pitcher. He came into the game with an ERA infated by two rough games, particularly a 13-0 loss to the Indians in his second start, but he was the more skilled starter in today's game.

This was a game the Sox could have won and probably should have won, even with the score tied after six. Every loss but Saturday's on this homestand was lost by the bullpen, a couple with the help of defensive lapses. And the bullpen played a factor in Saturday's loss.

I think the game turned, no twith the game-tying home run against Axelrod, but with the line-drive double play. The Sox seemed to be getting to Price, who may have been in the game too long because he wanted to get his first win, which he couldn't get if he left with the score tied. If Flowers gets the ball though the infield, the Sox have a very good chance of at least pushing across a run. That woudl have been a different ballgame. I don't know if Ventura tries to get another inning out of Jones

If the Sox had the lead. If the game is tied late, you don't want to burn too many pitchers, and I can see how it's tempting to leave Jones in for another inning. He has such great stuff. Unfortunately, he is often behind in the count. While his stuff is good enough to pitch from behind in the count he isn't as effective after he puts runners on basse. I don't know if he tires after one inning, necesarily, althogh a couple of times this year he has had bad second innngs. It might be that he stiffens up on the bench or he loses his rhythm.

The game was still winnable when Thornton got Loney, but the error let it get away, reminiscent of a Rays win with Juan Pierre dropping a fly iin left a couple of Aprils ago. All hope seemed lost when Rios finished a brutal inning by grouning into the double play. Ventura putting in the pitcher who just got into town for the ninth to give up two more tells me he is concerned about overworking his bullpen.

Really, I think the Sox have a pretty good bullpen, but this weekend, this homestand doesn't back that up.

The bullpen was rested with the blowout yesterday and there is an off day tomorrow. You don't worry about using too many pitchers in a tie game in the top of the eighth.

Tragg
04-28-2013, 10:07 PM
I'd also like to note that there isn't going to be any "firesale" until at least July. Be careful what you wish for, folks. I know it's bad right now, but yes, it can get worse. Remember, every player who gets traded needs to be replaced by *somebody*. I don't want to hear any "Just play the kids" ****. We don't have any kids to play.
No doubt about that. It will get worse. When you go into the season with Wise, and his .095 good-clubhouse-chemistry batting average (he should just be released) as your top bench bat, you've given yourself zero room for error.
An impotent farm system, caused mainly by poor drafting and development, is the main culprit. But poor trades (in giving away prospects and in trading for prospects) haven't helped either.

Brewski
04-28-2013, 11:32 PM
RC:

Brewski was commenting on Robin's comment. I was wondering what he meant by it and speculated that Robin could be preparing everyone for a fire sale.

You have to think this at least has already been discussed by Hahn and his staff.

Lip

Thx for explaining what I was doing, Lip. If Robin said what he said, nothing is left to guess about a fire sale. Trouble is and all of us know it, what's waiting in the wings is other teams' rejects. Management may figure that enthusiasm predicts attendance and if this season is headed where it seems to be headed, now's the time to do it, cause we're going to bottom out anyway.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2013, 12:46 AM
This team is not the same team we had on Opening Day. We're minus Beckham, Tank and this past weekend Keppinger. That's three everyday players the White Sox were counting on heavily in 2013. I'm hoping Keppinger is back this Tuesday. He was starting to hit and he got hurt. This eight game road trip can be a diffucult one. I hope we get out of it with at least 4 wins. I'm also hoping Hahn makes a move to improve this team offensively, sooner rather than later.

Good luck with that thought, the Sox have nothing to trade and are already about at the payroll limit.

Nell:

If you are into a rebuild mode you don't keep a pitcher in his 30's (Peavy) who if healthy might actually bring you some good prospects in return, given as well that he has a reasonable three year deal.

JB:

I don't think anybody is "wishing" for a rebuild. I think 99% of all Sox fans wish they were like the Yankees and just reloaded every season spending whatever amount of money it takes. But that's not going to happen and even to me (and I hate the thought of rebuilding) it appears that this approach is one Hahn has to at least consider since as was discussed in another thread the Sox seem to be perpetually stuck in that Twilight Zone of 85 wins. And it honestly looks like they might not even reach that number this season.

Lip

tstrike2000
04-29-2013, 12:48 AM
No doubt about that. It will get worse. When you go into the season with Wise, and his .095 good-clubhouse-chemistry batting average (he should just be released) as your top bench bat, you've given yourself zero room for error.
An impotent farm system, caused mainly by poor drafting and development, is the main culprit. But poor trades (in giving away prospects and in trading for prospects) haven't helped either.

Yet, the person responsible for some of this was promoted. Hahn wasn't given much to work with, and he's only been in the job a very short time, but it's not looking good for him right now. This team was banking on too many things working out, which includes having very little margin for error when it comes to injuries. Too many defensive lapses to go along with Robin still plagued by some inexperienced managing have also been a problem.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2013, 12:53 AM
No doubt about that. It will get worse. When you go into the season with Wise, and his .095 good-clubhouse-chemistry batting average (he should just be released) as your top bench bat, you've given yourself zero room for error.
An impotent farm system, caused mainly by poor drafting and development, is the main culprit. But poor trades (in giving away prospects and in trading for prospects) haven't helped either.

Tragg:

What I can't figure out is this. I've spoken to Rick a few times and he comes across as a sharp guy, intelligence-wise and baseball-wise.

He's got to know his bench was woefully inadaquate, yet he did nothing about it, not even taking a sniff at guys who were released with major league experience. As you said he was rolling the dice from an injury standpoint and he's come up snake eyes.

As smart as he is, that doesn't make sense, there's got to be more to the story here. I just can't figure out what it could be unless he was told to do some things (or not do some things) by those above him.

Lip

JB98
04-29-2013, 01:47 AM
I just think that if an injury pops up for another team in which they have a need that we could supply why not get going with it? I fear any value guy we have will be worth nothing by the time July rolls around. We are simply spinning our wheels and we are already playing Greene, Gillaspie, Flowers, and Danks. Our lineup is not major league quality as is. Yes it can get worse but this is not working. Beckham and Tank will certainly help when they return but it might be too late by then if we continue to not win series.

Because it is April 28. Only a coward gives up 24 games into a 162-game season. Let's not pretend the Sox are 10 games out. This team has played terrible and has bit hit hard by key injuries, yet the gap between the Sox and the top of the division is just four games.

Granted, "We play in a crappy division" isn't much of a rallying cry, and I know it's a Chicago tradition to throw in the towel at the first sign of adversity. But the season is not even close to being over. In fact, it has barely started.

If the team is still playing like this into June, then yes, you start thinking about making changes. I figure about 60 games into the season, you should start to have a pretty good feel about where things stand. We aren't even halfway to that point yet, and we won't be for another week.

And I hate to tell you, but I think Peavy is the only veteran on this roster who would bring a nice return in a trade. Barring injury, his trade value isn't going to be any less in July than it is right now. I don't believe in trading guys because you're fearful they might get hurt. I think the prudent thing to do is hold on to him, see what happens with this team, and if you do decide to deal him, offer him to multiple teams and try to create a July bidding war. No sense in just selling him off now because some other team "has a need." That's bad business. Fans can afford to be emotional. GMs cannot.

If the Sox trade Alex Rios, your new starting RF is Dewayne Wise. I know that's a sad truth, but that's how it is. That's not a move that builds for the future. That's just plain ol' bull****, and you'll never see me advocate that on this board.

JB98
04-29-2013, 01:50 AM
Tragg:

What I can't figure out is this. I've spoken to Rick a few times and he comes across as a sharp guy, intelligence-wise and baseball-wise.

He's got to know his bench was woefully inadaquate, yet he did nothing about it, not even taking a sniff at guys who were released with major league experience. As you said he was rolling the dice from an injury standpoint and he's come up snake eyes.

As smart as he is, that doesn't make sense, there's got to be more to the story here. I just can't figure out what it could be unless he was told to do some things (or not do some things) by those above him.

Lip

For lack of a better explanation, the Sox have a lot of immovable salary on this team. They're pretty much stuck where they are, waiting for some of these big-dollar deals to come off the books.

doublem23
04-29-2013, 01:56 AM
I just think that if an injury pops up for another team in which they have a need that we could supply why not get going with it? I fear any value guy we have will be worth nothing by the time July rolls around. We are simply spinning our wheels and we are already playing Greene, Gillaspie, Flowers, and Danks. Our lineup is not major league quality as is. Yes it can get worse but this is not working. Beckham and Tank will certainly help when they return but it might be too late by then if we continue to not win series.

Guys become more valuable as the trade deadline nears, though, as well.

I mean, seriously, is this the first year you've been a baseball fan? Big time trades don't happen in April.

Calm down, people. Sheesh.

doublem23
04-29-2013, 02:00 AM
For lack of a better explanation, the Sox have a lot of immovable salary on this team. They're pretty much stuck where they are, waiting for some of these big-dollar deals to come off the books.

I would think Dunn's the only guy whose contract is so terrible that the Sox just aren't going to be able to move him. Rios only has $12.5 M guaranteed on his deal after this year plus a $1 M buy out in 2015. Peavy's contract's not bad. Konerko and Floyd's deals expire after this year. Assuming Gavin's not too hurt, they won't fetch a ton, but you would think you could get something... There's always 1 dumb ass team always willing to overpay for a middle of the road SP rental.

We shall see.

JB98
04-29-2013, 02:10 AM
I would think Dunn's the only guy whose contract is so terrible that the Sox just aren't going to be able to move him. Rios only has $12.5 M guaranteed on his deal after this year plus a $1 M buy out in 2015. Peavy's contract's not bad. Konerko and Floyd's deals expire after this year. Assuming Gavin's not too hurt, they won't fetch a ton, but you would think you could get something... There's always 1 dumb ass team always willing to overpay for a middle of the road SP rental.

We shall see.

I think Rios has a reputation around baseball as having a "don't-give-a-****" attitude. I don't know how eager other clubs would be to add him to their clubhouse midseason. Obviously just speculating, but I would guess the Sox would have to eat some of that contract to deal him.

Peavy's contract is very fair. He's still a quality pitcher, a guy any team could use. I think the Sox could get good value in return if it comes to that.

I would guess Floyd will be with the Sox for the rest of the year, and then he'll be hitting the bricks. This is his third DL stint in the last two years. You're correct that it only takes one idiot who is willing to overpay for a SP rental, but even bad GMs stay away from oft-injured pitchers.

Paulie is another guy that other teams would want, but his 10/5 rights would allow him to dictate his destination. It's hard to get great value in those situations. Just ask the Cubs. Because of the circumstances surrounding his situation, he might be more valuable to the Sox as a rostered player than he would be in any trade.

Besides Dunn, the first guy I think of in terms of bad money on this team is Danks. He's obviously the other completely immovable object on the roster.

kittle42
04-29-2013, 02:14 AM
Because it is April 28. Only a coward gives up 24 games into a 162-game season.

Even Marlins and Astros fans?

doublem23
04-29-2013, 02:18 AM
I think Rios has a reputation around baseball as having a "don't-give-a-****" attitude. I don't know how eager other clubs would be to add him to their clubhouse midseason. Obviously just speculating, but I would guess the Sox would have to eat some of that contract to deal him.

We'll see, but you're talking about only a 1 1/2 year commitment to the guy, and whatever attitude problems, the guy's still hit .301/.338/.519 the last 2 seasons and has been in the Top 3 in the AL Power/Speed # for 3 of the last 4 seasons. He's still quite a talented player.

I forgot about Danks. You're right he's dead weight right now.

LITTLE NELL
04-29-2013, 06:20 AM
PK can go and still get resigned in the winter.

I like that list minus Beckham plus Alexei.

I just don't know about Alexei, he's a full fledged vet now and I just don't see a guy who has figured out what hitting is all about, I see him coming out of his shoes on every swing. I was hoping by now he would turn into a Jeter type hitter. Maybe we can make PK a playing-hitting coach, the man knows how to hit.

TomBradley72
04-29-2013, 10:36 AM
Not alot of teams can handle losing 2 starters out of rotation (Danks, Floyd) + 2 starting position players (Viciedo, Beckham)- especially a team as thin in overall org talent as the Sox.

The quality (lack of) of our call ups in this situation and the fact that D. Wise is on the roster are a complete indictment of the last 4 years of the KW era (2009-2012).

I'm not ready to hold Hand accountable (yet)- he has very little to work with- at the 40 man roster level or as far as trade bait goes, etc.

So many misses by Williams (pun intended)- Adam Dunn, Tyler Flowers, Jared Mitchell, Nestor Molina, Brett Morel, Zach Stewart, Simon Castro, Trayce Thompson, Keenyn Walker,etc. It has been many years since a major KW move really paid off- poor trades , poor FA signings, poor draft choices (excluding Sale).

Lip Man 1
04-29-2013, 11:53 AM
I was under the impression Thompson and Walker still have real potential?

Lip

asindc
04-29-2013, 11:56 AM
I was under the impression Thompson and Walker still have real potential?

Lip

That Addison Reed guy is pretty good, too.

TomBradley72
04-29-2013, 12:12 PM
I was under the impression Thompson and Walker still have real potential?

Lip

Could be- hitting <.200 at AA- but it is early-

TomBradley72
04-29-2013, 12:14 PM
That Addison Reed guy is pretty good, too.

You're right- should have given props for Reed & Jones and acquisitions of Quintana and Veal

WisSoxFan
04-29-2013, 12:45 PM
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=330428104

Sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see anything anywhere.

Was anyone at the game and/or close enough to hear the incident. I wasn't watching on TV so I have no idea how it looked when it went down.

doublem23
04-29-2013, 12:52 PM
I was under the impression Thompson and Walker still have real potential?

Lip

Thompson is still very much high risk/high reward. He's so notable here because our system is so utterly bare but probably on 15-20 other teams he'd be an MiLB afterthough.

Barring a miracle, Walker is never going to be a player of any kind of significance.

doublem23
04-29-2013, 12:54 PM
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=330428104

Sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see anything anywhere.

Was anyone at the game and/or close enough to hear the incident. I wasn't watching on TV so I have no idea how it looked when it went down.

It was very odd. My buddy and I, who were in Sect. 128 basically behind the Rays dugout, although about 30 rows up from the field saw the HP ump make the "you're outta here" signal which we assumed was for Maddon. Really had no idea what happened until I read about it later that night.

Really had no consequence on the game considering the player he tossed was a SP that wasn't scheduled to pitch probably unless the game lasted 30 innings.

JB98
04-29-2013, 01:19 PM
You're right- should have given props for Reed & Jones and acquisitions of Quintana and Veal

This regime does seem to be able to identify and develop pitching talent. Hell, they are even getting some decent innings out of Axelrod.

But when it comes to position players, it just seems to be fail after fail.

ChiSoxGal85
04-29-2013, 01:41 PM
I didn't get to see any White Sox baseball this weekend...and I feel much the better for it today. :o:

I'm really disappointed in our supposedly good defense and the bullpen lately. Not to mention the offense. I'm really hoping the Sox can pull themselves out of this black hole, and soon.

thomas35forever
04-29-2013, 02:08 PM
This regime does seem to be able to identify and develop pitching talent. Hell, they are even getting some decent innings out of Axelrod.

But when it comes to position players, it just seems to be fail after fail.
This is very true. The position player problem has been plaguing for years.

As for the pitchers, I have some doubts on whether they can keep up this level of play, notably Jones. He was lights out for much of last year, but he's been somewhat shaky in clutch situations this year. I guess it depends on how often you use him and Robin may be relying a bit too much on his services.

Hitmen77
04-29-2013, 04:37 PM
This regime does seem to be able to identify and develop pitching talent. Hell, they are even getting some decent innings out of Axelrod.

But when it comes to position players, it just seems to be fail after fail.

Who was the last position player to come through the Sox minor league system that turned into a solid, above average MLB player? I'm really having a hard time thinking of anyone decent since 1998. Chris Young? Beckham? Not that I think either of those guys are above average MLB players, but who else is there? 15 years is a long time to be cranking out a bunch of Josh Fields and Brian Anderson and Brent Morel-type players as some of our more notable prospects.

LITTLE NELL
04-29-2013, 04:53 PM
Who was the last position player to come through the Sox minor league system that turned into a solid, above average MLB player? I'm really having a hard time thinking of anyone decent since 1998. Chris Young? Beckham? Not that I think either of those guys are above average MLB players, but who else is there? 15 years is a long time to be cranking out a bunch of Josh Fields and Brian Anderson and Brent Morel-type players as some of our more notable prospects.

All comes down to not investing big bucks in the minor league system.
I've mentioned this before as has Lip but in one of Einhorn's first interviews he said the minor leagues are over-rated, he said you build winners by wise trades and wise free agent signings. We haven't done great there either The one thing he forgot is when the injury bug hits and you have nobody down on the farm who can do the job as a replacement. The only position players that came up and made an impression are Josh Fields who by the next year was a flop and Beckham and the jury is still out on him.

doublem23
04-29-2013, 05:01 PM
Who was the last position player to come through the Sox minor league system that turned into a solid, above average MLB player? I'm really having a hard time thinking of anyone decent since 1998. Chris Young? Beckham? Not that I think either of those guys are above average MLB players, but who else is there? 15 years is a long time to be cranking out a bunch of Josh Fields and Brian Anderson and Brent Morel-type players as some of our more notable prospects.

Rowand and Crede, they both debuted around the 2000/2001 season in the Majors and become regular everyday players around 2003/2004.

amsteel
04-29-2013, 05:39 PM
Rowand and Crede, they both debuted around the 2000/2001 season in the Majors and become regular everyday players around 2003/2004.

The last Sox position player from the Amateur Draft/Amateur Free Agent signing to post a minimum BR-WAR of _____:
2.0 - Alexei (2.5) - 2012
3.0 - Alexei (3.7) - 2011
4.0 - Alexei (5.5) - 2010
5.0 - Alexei (5.5) - 2010

Other seasons by draftees/amateur free agents over 2.0 since 2001:
Crede 2.4 - 2008
Beckham 2.1 - 2009
Crede 4.8 - 2006
Rowand 3.7 - 2005
Rowand 5.7 - 2004
Lee 5.0 - 2004
Crede 2.3 - 2003
Ordonez 5.6 - 2003
Lee 3.2 - 2003
Durham 3.3 - 2002
Ordonez 5.1 - 2002
Lee 2.9 - 2002
Durham 4.3 - 2001
Ordonez 3.4 - 2001

Considering BR considers a 2+ WAR to be 'starter level' that is bleak. And just qualitatively from looking that up: there are WAY fewer draft products on the roster the past few years compared to 10 years ago.

Tragg
04-29-2013, 06:44 PM
I just don't know about Alexei, he's a full fledged vet now and I just don't see a guy who has figured out what hitting is all about, I see him coming out of his shoes on every swing. I was hoping by now he would turn into a Jeter type hitter. Maybe we can make PK a playing-hitting coach, the man knows how to hit.

He'll also be 32 this year....time really rolls by - he's a full blown veteran shortstop who is more likely to decline than improve.

Rios has raked the last 2 years...we should be able to get some nice young players for him (if we don't just give him away like we did Quentin).

Hitmen77
04-29-2013, 10:53 PM
Rowand and Crede, they both debuted around the 2000/2001 season in the Majors and become regular everyday players around 2003/2004.

Yeah, those two must be the last of the good position players that came up through the Sox. Remember, though, that Crede and Rowand were drafted in 1996 and '98. 17 and 15 years ago.

We discussed this in another thread, but this is the big difference between the playoff contender teams of the mid-2000s and today. Once that stream of in-house talent dried up, there was no one left to either fill holes in the Sox line up or to use as trade bait to acquire good talent.