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Frater Perdurabo
04-27-2013, 10:26 PM
Not much good to come out of tonight's game.

shingo10
04-27-2013, 10:32 PM
Never anything good to come out of an injury but apparently we have a guy in Double AA- (Think it's Erik Johnson?) who has some pretty impressive numbers. Under 2 ERA, 25 strikeouts, 5 walks. Be interesting to see if he gets the callup.

Other than that, good fight in the 8th to bring the tying run to the plate. Moore dominated, simple as that.

amsteel
04-27-2013, 10:32 PM
I complain about the Sox being predictable, but this is extreme, even for them.

https://twitter.com/ckamka/status/328335204294983681

LoveYourSuit
04-27-2013, 10:57 PM
Guess who leads this team in strikeouts per AB?

Alejandro De Aza. Yes, over Adam Dunn. Congratulations.

.236 Avg and .274 OBP not gonna work from leadoff either.

tstrike2000
04-27-2013, 11:25 PM
Guess who leads this team in strikeouts per AB?

Alejandro De Aza. Yes, over Adam Dunn. Congratulations.

.236 Avg and .274 OBP not gonna work from leadoff either.

I think Flowers wants to be the eventual leader in that category. He's been brutal over the last week or so.

Lip Man 1
04-27-2013, 11:32 PM
At the rate they are going they'll be nobody left to play by Memorial Day.

This is 2001, 2004, 2007 and the stretch run of 2010 all over again.

Oh and injury or no injury Gavin Floyd sucks...period.

Lip

TDog
04-27-2013, 11:48 PM
The Sox needed to get a well-pitched game tonight against Moore, and there were two innings where the Rays didn't score, despite getting a runner into scoring position in both. I wondered if Santiago simply didn't warm up sufficiently. Coming into the game with two outs, none on and two strikes on the hitter, he had the percentages on his side to finish the inning scoreless, and he could have given Floyd a statistical three innings tonight, because the third strike would have given the strike out to Floyd. (The report I saw showed Floyd left with two strikes anyway.) But even after Santiago left the game, it continued to be pad your stats night for the the Rays, even their sub-.200 hitters.

Maybe if Floyd hadn't gone down, the game would have turned out differently. The chance the Sox had was keeping the game close, wearing Moore down and getting to the bullpen. As it was, Moore left with a higher ERA than he came in with. The Dunn homer was hit while the game was still close. And it felt like Moore came out because he was tiring, not because of the big lead.

I wonder if it frustrates Rays fans to see their team seem to be able to score at will when their strongest pitcher is going after losing two close games.

Whether the Sox would have come back in a close game isn't certain. The Rays were trying to get innings out of their B relievers tonight. It was still good to see the tying run come up in eighth after all that had gone wrong tonight. If the bullpen hadn't allowed so many bad things to happen, this loss would have been downright frustrating with the Sox twice leaving the bases loaded.

Not the way I wanted to see Reed get the night off.

amsteel
04-28-2013, 12:07 AM
I think Flowers wants to be the eventual leader in that category. He's been brutal over the last week or so.

Flowers leads right now in K rate. 36.1%, nearly twice the league average.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2013, 12:23 AM
A few more thoughts if I may. Gonzo told me that scouts were actually looking at Floyd anticipating a Sox fire sale come July. You've got to figure with three trips to the DL for an elbow issue in less than a season AND (let's not forget) he couldn't finish his first two years with the club due to a hip issue, the Sox will be lucky to get a bag of balls for him even if he does come back to pitch.

Unfortunately it looks like another 9.5 million flushed down the toilet.

Offensively offensive numbers:

After tonight, the Sox are last in the A.L. in runs scored (3.3 per game)

The Sox are last in the A.L. in on base percentage (I think it's .277)

And the Sox are now 24-133 for the year with RISP. That's .180 for the year which God help us is actually an improvement. It was as low as .160.

When Floyd goes on the DL it'll be five (Septimo was removed from the list and sent to the minors where he can continue to feed his gopher ball)...four of whom were either starters or considered important pieces. Santiago according to Robin takes Floyd's place in the rotation.

This could be one of those seasons.

Lip

Boondock Saint
04-28-2013, 12:40 AM
At the rate they are going they'll be nobody left to play by Memorial Day.

This is 2001, 2004, 2007 and the stretch run of 2010 all over again.

Oh and injury or no injury Gavin Floyd sucks...period.

Lip

I agree. He's either missing the strike zone completely, or throwing meat up there.

doublem23
04-28-2013, 12:50 AM
I agree. He's either missing the strike zone completely, or throwing meat up there.

Honestly, at what point are people going to just learn to see Floyd for what he is? He's had 5 starts this season, 2 good, 3 bad. That's exactly the kind of guy he's been for most of his Sox career, especially the last few years. He'll give you some good starts but he's also going to lay an egg just as often. He's still a valuable SP to even an above average to good team. He's just not a frontline kind of a guy, especially not at 30.

CoopaLoop
04-28-2013, 12:56 AM
Matt Moore is really ****ing good.

CoopaLoop
04-28-2013, 12:56 AM
Honestly, at what point are people going to just learn to see Floyd for what he is? He's had 5 starts this season, 2 good, 3 bad. That's exactly the kind of guy he's been for most of his Sox career, especially the last few years. He'll give you some good starts but he's also going to lay an egg just as often. He's still a valuable SP to even an above average to good team. He's just not a frontline kind of a guy, especially not at 30.

Yup he is a 4th starter, that's what 4th starters do.

lpneck
04-28-2013, 06:10 AM
The stat I think I would be worried about if I ran the White Sox right now is 12 posts on WSI the morning after losing a Saturday night home game following a 3 game winning streak.

SI1020
04-28-2013, 08:45 AM
The stat I think I would be worried about if I ran the White Sox right now is 12 posts on WSI the morning after losing a Saturday night home game following a 3 game winning streak. Apathy and silence abounds.

rainbow6
04-28-2013, 08:51 AM
Yup he is a 4th starter, that's what 4th starters do.

The problem with that is that on a team with limited financial flexibility, you are paying someone nearly 10 million dollars to be "just a 4th starter" or have "two good games, three bad ones.."

It's not that the fans don't know what to expect from Gavin; it's just difficult not to express frustration with how this organization has chosen to allocate funds.

Tragg
04-28-2013, 09:00 AM
Whether the Sox would have come back in a close game isn't certain. The Rays were trying to get innings out of their B relievers tonight. It was still good to see the tying run come up in eighth after all that had gone wrong tonight. If the bullpen hadn't allowed so many bad things to happen, this loss would have been downright frustrating with the Sox twice leaving the bases loaded.


Ventura essentially punted the game when he wouldn't get Santiago out of there. He tends to do that sometime - let pitchers pitch us completely out of the game. Maybe he didn't have much choice tonight, but, as you said, the Rays were using their B relievers, as were we.

It's one thing to lecture fans about Floyd being a 4th starter. The Sox don't think he is, as per the salary they pay him...that's the problem.

Fire Sale - just keep Peavy healthy and, honestly, maybe even Sale. And negotiate. No give aways.

Tragg
04-28-2013, 09:02 AM
Never anything good to come out of an injury but apparently we have a guy in Double AA- (Think it's Erik Johnson?) who has some pretty impressive numbers. Under 2 ERA, 25 strikeouts, 5 walks. Be interesting to see if he gets the callup.

I will just point out that now is not the time to rush prospects, if that's what we would be doing.

Frater Perdurabo
04-28-2013, 10:06 AM
Lip is right; every third year since 2001 seems to get detailed by injuries.

A dose of realism for the chicken littles: With his contract up after this season and his inconsistency, even a healthy Floyd was never going to bring much more than a B prospect in return.

If the season is going to go down the drain due to injuries, better that it happens now, before we get emotionally invested.

I had planned to watch Sunday's game on WGN, but I'd rather go to Costco.

kittle42
04-28-2013, 10:10 AM
Maybe if Floyd hadn't gone down, the game would have turned out differently. The chance the Sox had was keeping the game close, wearing Moore down and getting to the bullpen. As it was, Moore left with a higher ERA than he came in with.

1. Yes, the game would have turned out differently. The Rays would have had all 10 runs in the first four innings.

2. It is not hard to leave with a higher ERA when you came in with a 1.04 or whatever it was. 1 run in 8 innings would raise that ERA. Not exactly a bright spot to point out.

kittle42
04-28-2013, 10:16 AM
Let me sum up this lineup:

De Aza - last year was a fluke. This is what he really was
Keppinger - Nice buy off a career year he'd never repeat. Guy is a bench player/super UT guy, not an everyday starter
Rios - our best player (sigh)
Dunn - yeah
Konerko - let's hope he gets hot so the Sox can get something for him come July
Ramirez - ambivalent
Flowers - see Dunn
Gillaspie - a nice surprise, but also not an everyday guy
Viciedo - see Flowers, Dunn, but a little better than them
The rotating replacement for Viciedo - they all stink
Beckham - what you see is what you get

This team will not do anything spectacular and, more annoyingly, was not in any way set up to do so. There is no plan here. The future is dismal. Konerko, Peavy, and Rios, at the least, should be moved in July. I would add Dunn, but he's an albatross, even at only $12 mil. I would add Floyd, but don't expect anything significant in return. Lindstrom may end up having value to someone, too.

And for those who say, "Well, then don't watch the games," I'm already not.

#1swisher
04-28-2013, 10:37 AM
Ventura said that Santiago would move into Floyd's rotation spot, with right-handed reliever Deunte Heath being called up from Triple-A Charlotte.

TaylorStSox
04-28-2013, 10:38 AM
The stat I think I would be worried about if I ran the White Sox right now is 12 posts on WSI the morning after losing a Saturday night home game following a 3 game winning streak.

Well, the "dark clouds" won. This site is so negative that I don't even bother posting in the clubhouse anymore. Most of the posters just try to one up each other with melodramatic garbage.

GlassSox
04-28-2013, 11:07 AM
Ventura said that Santiago would move into Floyd's rotation spot, with right-handed reliever Deunte Heath being called up from Triple-A Charlotte.

That's less than exciting :o:

Noneck
04-28-2013, 11:26 AM
I watch this club and wonder how many of the position players will have roster spots on a major league team in a couple years. Not many.

MarksBrokenFoot
04-28-2013, 11:26 AM
Well, the "dark clouds" won. This site is so negative that I don't even bother posting in the clubhouse anymore. Most of the posters just try to one up each other with melodramatic garbage.

The dark clouds block out the view of the pie in the sky? Undeserved optimism is every bit as annoying as overly dramatic pessimism. The dark clouds didn't win, they just happen to be right.

asindc
04-28-2013, 11:57 AM
The dark clouds block out the view of the pie in the sky? Undeserved optimism is every bit as annoying as overly dramatic pessimism. The dark clouds didn't win, they just happen to be right.

If the Sox's record was reversed and the optimists were being loud and proud, many if the dark clouds would point out that it is only April 28.

LITTLE NELL
04-28-2013, 12:15 PM
Let me sum up this lineup:

De Aza - last year was a fluke. This is what he really was
Keppinger - Nice buy off a career year he'd never repeat. Guy is a bench player/super UT guy, not an everyday starter
Rios - our best player (sigh)
Dunn - yeah
Konerko - let's hope he gets hot so the Sox can get something for him come July
Ramirez - ambivalent
Flowers - see Dunn
Gillaspie - a nice surprise, but also not an everyday guy
Viciedo - see Flowers, Dunn, but a little better than them
The rotating replacement for Viciedo - they all stink
Beckham - what you see is what you get

This team will not do anything spectacular and, more annoyingly, was not in any way set up to do so. There is no plan here. The future is dismal. Konerko, Peavy, and Rios, at the least, should be moved in July. I would add Dunn, but he's an albatross, even at only $12 mil. I would add Floyd, but don't expect anything significant in return. Lindstrom may end up having value to someone, too.

And for those who say, "Well, then don't watch the games," I'm already not.

Very depressing but true.
We could see a rebuild of Cub proportions except people will still come to the Urinal while USCF might become a ghost town.

Chez
04-28-2013, 12:23 PM
Amazing that the Sox were able to bring the tying run to the plate in the 8th inning.

BainesHOF
04-28-2013, 12:30 PM
I attended my first game last night and saw a lackluster effort. The whole team walked/barely jogged on and off the field. There were many bad throws whether it was Ramirez's error or numerous throws from the outfield, even on routine throws back to the infield. De Aza was most guilty of this, and his head down, moping act is the opposite of you want from a leadoff hitter. Greene, of all people, exuded a too-cool-for-the-room attitude. This year, the team has TERRIBLE body language. Some kind of move needs to be made to jolt this club into giving a full effort. This reflects badly on Ventura.

Floyd's injury is a blessing in disguise at this point (beyond him being healthy to get something for him in trade). He's been the most disappointing player on the team. He hasn't even been medicore. He's just bad. Whatever you think of Santiago, he's a much better option than Floyd at this point.

Speaking of Santiago, he warmed up in the strangest way I've ever seen from a pitcher who entered the game in a pinch because of injury. By his third or fourth warmup pitch, he was throwing very hard. It was like he thought he was on a time limit. Very, very odd. Perhaps the super-quick way he warmed up was responsible for his underwhelming performance that followed.

I had good seats 10 rows above the Sox dugout. From there, you could clearly see that Flowers has a bit of a hitch in his approach to the ball that causes his load to drag. The guy sitting next to me said the same thing. We had the same view angle that the coaches have in the dugout. Very surprised that this hasn't been removed from his swing by now. I don't see how he has any chance to succeed consistently with it.

Could this be Konerko's last season in the big leagues?

As I was watching the game last night, I found myself thinking how much of a shame it is that we're wasting the talent and performance of Rios and Peavy. They should be leading us to victory. Instead, they'll likely be part of a fire sale in a couple months.

I'd add that the Sox have created a weird atmosphere in the park. The two bad pregame videos have already been talked about him a lot so I won't get into that outside of saying they they need to be permanently removed (and the person/people responsible for them need to answer for really bad judgement). What was striking, though, was the odd way music was used. All the little music cuts were just incessant throughout the game, regardless of the situation. Some were just horribly out of place and inappropriate. It smacked of a minor league game meets Bozo's Circus. For some reason and despite all their surveys, the Sox seem to be rapidly losing their way in how to present a ballgame.

TDog
04-28-2013, 12:39 PM
1. Yes, the game would have turned out differently. The Rays would have had all 10 runs in the first four innings.

2. It is not hard to leave with a higher ERA when you came in with a 1.04 or whatever it was. 1 run in 8 innings would raise that ERA. Not exactly a bright spot to point out.

I wouldn't say it's not hard for the Sox to send Moore out of the game with a higher ERA than he had coming in. If it was easy, he wouldn't have such a low ERA against the rest of the league.

If your bullpen gives up eight runs, it's not a winnable game. If Floyd isn't hurt and only gives up two or three, or your long reliever comes in and shuts down the offense, as it very much is. Moore has been vey good this season, but a pitchng duel would have been winnable, despite Moore's ERA. Even with a comfortable lead, Moore seemed to have gone as far as he could go, at least at that level, Saturday night. If the game is close when he leaves, the Sox have a good,although not great, chance in the game.

This game could be compared with a game last year in St. Petersburg when Quintana had to come out in the fourth. I think we remember why. In that game the Sox had a 2-1 lead at the time, but the bullpen didn't let the game get out of hand. The Sox won that one 4-3.

I don't know why Ventura put in Santiago or left in Santiago. It appeared the A relievers needed the rest and he needed Santiago to step up. It didn't happen. I don't think Ventura wasn't trying to win the game. It looked like he didn't want to overuse relievers in a situation where he wasn't protecting a lead.

MarksBrokenFoot
04-28-2013, 12:51 PM
If the Sox's record was reversed and the optimists were being loud and proud, many if the dark clouds would point out that it is only April 28.

You mean like last year? When they said Detroit was gonna catch us and Detroit caught us? It's kinda sad that being correct isn't a defense around here.

TDog
04-28-2013, 01:04 PM
You mean like last year? When they said Detroit was gonna catch us and Detroit caught us? It's kinda sad that being correct isn't a defense around here.

Or in 1964 after sweeping the Yankees in four in August to reach first place. The dark clouds were right. Move along, nothing to see here. In the end that White Sox team lost, like they always do.

Why bother?

SephClone89
04-28-2013, 01:25 PM
I wouldn't say it's not hard for the Sox to send Moore out of the game with a higher ERA than he had coming in. If it was easy, he wouldn't have such a low ERA against the rest of the league.

...

Mr. Jinx
04-28-2013, 01:35 PM
You mean like last year? When they said Detroit was gonna catch us and Detroit caught us? It's kinda sad that being correct isn't a defense around here.

WSI rules:

If you make an optimistic prediction, you are fine. If you are right, you will be praised, if you are wrong, nothing will be said.

If you make a pessimistic prediction, you will be called a dark cloud. If you are wrong, you will be reminded as such, if you are right, you better not say anything or else you will be told to shut up and move along.

The sooner you learn these rules, the better off you will be.

TDog
04-28-2013, 01:44 PM
WSI rules:

If you make an optimistic prediction, you are fine. If you are right, you will be praised, if you are wrong, nothing will be said.

If you make a pessimistic prediction, you will be called a dark cloud. If you are wrong, you will be reminded as such, if you are right, you better not say anything or else you will be told to shut up and move along.

The sooner you learn these rules, the better off you will be.

If you're gloating over being right about the Sox not winning the division in 2012 in this forum, you're pretty much being a jerk.

Noneck
04-28-2013, 01:48 PM
WSI rules:

If you make an optimistic prediction, you are fine. If you are right, you will be praised, if you are wrong, nothing will be said.

If you make a pessimistic prediction, you will be called a dark cloud. If you are wrong, you will be reminded as such, if you are right, you better not say anything or else you will be told to shut up and move along.

The sooner you learn these rules, the better off you will be.

You forgot one.

If you predicted a bad move , you can pat yourself on the back for years to come. And remind everyone of this even though others also predicted but dont have arms long enough to pat themselves on their back.

MISoxfan
04-28-2013, 02:59 PM
Last year there were 5 playoff teams for the first time ever. To gloat over being right about a team that even the most optimistic fans hoped could maybe just barely sneak into the playoffs is awful. You're bragging about being right when the odds were heavily in your favor.

Mr. Jinx
04-28-2013, 03:34 PM
If you're gloating over being right about the Sox not winning the division in 2012 in this forum, you're pretty much being a jerk.

No, but if people are going to give you **** for making an honest prediction, they deserve to get **** on themselves when it comes true.

Mr. Jinx
04-28-2013, 03:36 PM
Last year there were 5 playoff teams for the first time ever. To gloat over being right about a team that even the most optimistic fans hoped could maybe just barely sneak into the playoffs is awful. You're bragging about being right when the odds were heavily in your favor.

It isn't a matter of gloating. No one here wants to see the Sox lose. But it gets tiresome when anyone who happens to think differently than the majority gets called a dark cloud and is marginalized with regularity.

Frater Perdurabo
04-28-2013, 04:14 PM
I joined WSI in 2003. IIRC, "dark cloud" or "pants pissing dark cloud" began being used in 2005 to mock the people who were cynical despite the Sox remaining in first place throughout the year. The "dark clouds" were out in force in August and September 2005, when the Sox were playing .500, the Indians were playing .900, and the lead shrunk from 15 games to 1.5 games.

IMHO, the proper context to call someone a "dark cloud" is if/when he/she is crapping all over a first place club, or one that has a winning record and is within striking distance of first place.

Expressing cynicism during a losing season is entirely appropriate. Just don't overdo it.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2013, 04:51 PM
Lip is right; every third year since 2001 seems to get detailed by injuries.

A dose of realism for the chicken littles: With his contract up after this season and his inconsistency, even a healthy Floyd was never going to bring much more than a B prospect in return.

If the season is going to go down the drain due to injuries, better that it happens now, before we get emotionally invested.

I had planned to watch Sunday's game on WGN, but I'd rather go to Costco.

Frater:

Complicating the situation is that the Sox don't have the minor league players who can step in and actually perform when injuries happen and they don't have the financial payroll ability to buy players at the deadline (in essence) to replace guys who are hurt or slumping.

Just another 'caught in the middle between a rock and a hard place' situation.

Also the Sox make a lot of the fact that over the past 10 years or so they have had a remarkable ability to keep guys healthy and on the field and that's exactly correct especially when you compare it to other teams.

However when the Sox have got hit by injuries as in the previous seasons I mentioned, they basically were done with little to no hope of being able to overcome them. Other clubs (the Cardinals come to mind) have been able to.

Lip

asindc
04-28-2013, 05:40 PM
If you're gloating over being right about the Sox not winning the division in 2012 in this forum, you're pretty much being a jerk.

Isn't it bizarre that some members here make posts that would be considered trolling if a Tigers or Royals fan made them?

asindc
04-28-2013, 05:46 PM
I joined WSI in 2003. IIRC, "dark cloud" or "pants pissing dark cloud" began being used in 2005 to mock the people who were cynical despite the Sox remaining in first place throughout the year. The "dark clouds" were out in force in August and September 2005, when the Sox were playing .500, the Indians were playing .900, and the lead shrunk from 15 games to 1.5 games.

IMHO, the proper context to call someone a "dark cloud" is if/when he/she is crapping all over a first place club, or one that has a winning record and is within striking distance of first place.
Expressing cynicism during a losing season is entirely appropriate. Just don't overdo it.

Well said on all accounts. If someone can't bring themselves to temper his pessimism enough to at least be hopeful, I think he might as well post here: http://www.motownsports.com/. What come across as troll-like comments here would fit right in over there.

Mr. Jinx
04-28-2013, 07:52 PM
Expressing cynicism during a losing season is entirely appropriate. Just don't overdo it.

My point exactly in much better terms than I could put it in. And just don't overdo the criticism of those who express an appropriate level of cynicism.

doublem23
04-29-2013, 01:14 AM
Floyd's injury is a blessing in disguise at this point (beyond him being healthy to get something for him in trade). He's been the most disappointing player on the team. He hasn't even been medicore. He's just bad. Whatever you think of Santiago, he's a much better option than Floyd at this point.


He's not even close

pudge
04-29-2013, 02:02 PM
I'd add that the Sox have created a weird atmosphere in the park. The two bad pregame videos have already been talked about him a lot so I won't get into that outside of saying they they need to be permanently removed (and the person/people responsible for them need to answer for really bad judgement). What was striking, though, was the odd way music was used. All the little music cuts were just incessant throughout the game, regardless of the situation. Some were just horribly out of place and inappropriate. It smacked of a minor league game meets Bozo's Circus. For some reason and despite all their surveys, the Sox seem to be rapidly losing their way in how to present a ballgame.

This! The last couple times I was at the park, it was just a bizarre atmosphere. Nobody really seemed to want to be there. Maybe I'm just getting old, maybe it's the lousy product that has been on the field, but something just feels "off". Amazing how quickly this organization killed the energy that was in the park in the few years following '05.

bunkaroo
04-29-2013, 02:07 PM
This! The last couple times I was at the park, it was just a bizarre atmosphere. Nobody really seemed to want to be there. Maybe I'm just getting old, maybe it's the lousy product that has been on the field, but something just feels "off". Amazing how quickly this organization killed the energy that was in the park in the few years following '05.

I was there yesterday and it definitely does feel off. If they weren't going to keep the "Pirates" video they should have come up with something better or at least as good. I didn't even realize the video was on until it was basically over.

Oh, and they ran out of damn corn in the 6th inning? Opening Day I can understand, but on a Sunday with the place a little more than half full?

At this point I am happy I only bought a 7-game plan. Once a month seems about right. If it gets really bad I may give away my tickets later in the season.

Carolina Kenny
04-29-2013, 02:09 PM
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2013/02/20/346383.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=TNAhfMFTXdLwLM&tbnid=0slyPVWYm_ZvmM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibtimes.co.uk%2Farticles%2F43 7326%2F20130220%2Firan-rats-tehran-snipers-mutated.htm&ei=l8R-UfLNHoOBrgGL_oD4Aw&psig=AFQjCNFF9SqmksHwqm6782g4DxpOoaPrOg&ust=1367348759547292)

pudge
04-29-2013, 02:11 PM
I joined WSI in 2003. IIRC, "dark cloud" or "pants pissing dark cloud" began being used in 2005 to mock the people who were cynical despite the Sox remaining in first place throughout the year. The "dark clouds" were out in force in August and September 2005, when the Sox were playing .500, the Indians were playing .900, and the lead shrunk from 15 games to 1.5 games.

IMHO, the proper context to call someone a "dark cloud" is if/when he/she is crapping all over a first place club, or one that has a winning record and is within striking distance of first place.

Expressing cynicism during a losing season is entirely appropriate. Just don't overdo it.

I didn't even mind the dark clouds in '05, dropping a 15 game lead in September is cause for some cynicism. I just remember the WSI from '01-'03, lots of smart, balanced, insightful debate. Then the "prospect experts" starting showing up, these guys who supposedly knew everything about every Sox prospect - things just started to decline from there, and you entered the era where everyone who posted anything on the Internet was all of a sudden a genius or expert, and message boards just started losing their luster IMO.

Jerko
04-29-2013, 02:16 PM
**** I didn't hit quote, this is in response to the place feeling "off".

I keep saying it (and I know why the Sox do it), but half of the park is always closed. Little kid walked in yesterday, saw the Shoeless Joe stand, was all excited to get something to eat from there.........and it was closed. Yeah he eventually got his dog or slice, but ***.

Also, there is really one "fan favorite" position player on the team, and he hardly plays the field anymore (Paulie).

The pre-game stuff is BRUTALLY BORING, that doesn't help. We don't really need a pride crew member screeching incoherently into the mic a half hour before the game starts.

And let's face it, the team itself is boring. If they're down a few runs mid-game, the concourse becomes a meeting place and 400 people MIGHT still be watching the game. I feel like I'd get "shushed" if I started making noise.

kittle42
04-29-2013, 03:03 PM
This! The last couple times I was at the park, it was just a bizarre atmosphere. Nobody really seemed to want to be there. Maybe I'm just getting old, maybe it's the lousy product that has been on the field, but something just feels "off". Amazing how quickly this organization killed the energy that was in the park in the few years following '05.

You could not be more right. It really is kinda just blah at the Cell these days, and has been for a couple years, even when the team was in first last year.

Cat Thief
04-29-2013, 03:41 PM
I keep saying it (and I know why the Sox do it), but half of the park is always closed. Little kid walked in yesterday, saw the Shoeless Joe stand, was all excited to get something to eat from there.........and it was closed. Yeah he eventually got his dog or slice, but ***.

The bleachers were packed yesterday and the beer stand by 160-161 was closed. I don't get it.

kittle42
04-29-2013, 04:06 PM
The bleachers were packed yesterday and the beer stand by 160-161 was closed. I don't get it.

It's like they don't even want anyone to come, and want the people there to not come back.

This franchise is getting more moronic by the year. Unless my partners still want in, I will be canceling my season tickets after this year.

BainesHOF
04-29-2013, 05:11 PM
We don't really need a pride crew member screeching incoherently into the mic a half hour before the game starts.

Yes. Just one of countless examples of the Sox not getting it. When I say the "Sox" I mean the marketing people and those who oversee them who don't have any feeling for the game and the people who attend it. The fact that they're still playing the two bad pregame videos smacks of the out-of-touch arrogance that finally got Rob Gallas canned.

Another thing weird thing about Saturday's atmosphere was the relentless showing of fans on the scoreboard. Now I have nothing against showing some fans on the scoreboard throughout the game. But this was something else. It was neverending to the point where the game became an inconvenience to putting a parade of fans on the scoreboard.

TomBradley72
04-29-2013, 05:12 PM
**** I didn't hit quote, this is in response to the place feeling "off".

I keep saying it (and I know why the Sox do it), but half of the park is always closed. Little kid walked in yesterday, saw the Shoeless Joe stand, was all excited to get something to eat from there.........and it was closed. Yeah he eventually got his dog or slice, but ***.

Also, there is really one "fan favorite" position player on the team, and he hardly plays the field anymore (Paulie).

The pre-game stuff is BRUTALLY BORING, that doesn't help. We don't really need a pride crew member screeching incoherently into the mic a half hour before the game starts.

And let's face it, the team itself is boring. If they're down a few runs mid-game, the concourse becomes a meeting place and 400 people MIGHT still be watching the game. I feel like I'd get "shushed" if I started making noise.

I emailed Brooks this morning- and shared my feedback on seeing the new opening video that replace the montage- (my feedback was consistent with most of the posts on the topic here)- he replied that one of their goals was to make the new one "shorter" than the old one.

I shared that most of the people around me at the game didn't like it, and that I don't know any Sox fans (real life or WSI) that like the change- his reply was that they are getting "overwhelingly positive feedback via social media".

I give up.

BainesHOF
04-29-2013, 05:17 PM
I emailed Brooks this morning- and shared my feedback on seeing the new opening video that replace the montage- (my feedback was consistent with most of the posts on the topic here)- he replied that one of their goals was to make the new one "shorter" than the old one.

I shared that most of the people around me at the game didn't like it, and that I don't know any Sox fans (real life or WSI) that like the change- his reply was that they are getting "overwhelingly positive feedback via social media".

I give up.

Boyer's response is both funny and sad.

amsteel
04-29-2013, 05:27 PM
his reply was that they are getting "overwhelingly positive feedback via social media".

Well, that should be fairly easy to prove/disprove.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2013, 05:34 PM
How?

I'd be curious myself if it's fans at WSI that are "out of touch" or if something in the style of Chicago politics is going on with the claim.

Lip

Mr. Jinx
04-29-2013, 09:53 PM
It's like they don't even want anyone to come, and want the people there to not come back.

This franchise is getting more moronic by the year. Unless my partners still want in, I will be canceling my season tickets after this year.

It amazes me how badly the Sox do everything possible to alienate their fans. I had a partial season ticket for about 5 years, dropped out last year, and came back in this year after they dropped prices. At this rate, I'll just drop out again this year and buy a few really nice seats on stubhub next year for a handful of games.

FielderJones
04-29-2013, 10:32 PM
Another thing weird thing about Saturday's atmosphere was the relentless showing of fans on the scoreboard. Now I have nothing against showing some fans on the scoreboard throughout the game. But this was something else. It was neverending to the point where the game became an inconvenience to putting a parade of fans on the scoreboard.

I liked being shown on the scoreboard. :shrug:

Hitmen77
04-30-2013, 01:16 PM
I emailed Brooks this morning- and shared my feedback on seeing the new opening video that replace the montage- (my feedback was consistent with most of the posts on the topic here)- he replied that one of their goals was to make the new one "shorter" than the old one.

I shared that most of the people around me at the game didn't like it, and that I don't know any Sox fans (real life or WSI) that like the change- his reply was that they are getting "overwhelingly positive feedback via social media".

I give up.

How?

I'd be curious myself if it's fans at WSI that are "out of touch" or if something in the style of Chicago politics is going on with the claim.

Lip

This isn't the first time that Sox management has touted fan "surveys" or "feedback" to justify some of their ballpark experience changes. For years, they have seemed obsessed with touting fan surveys to justify their decisions.

I'd like to ask the Sox this: if these "survey"-driven changes are so wonderful, where are the improved ticket sales to support it? They have claimed in the past that fans want very limited organ music, loud PA music, etc.....and now "feedback" supposedly tells them that fans love the new intro. Somehow they're convincing themselves that this is what the fans want, and yet the number of people showing up has been dropping every year for something like 6 or 7 years.

Of course, most of the fan support/better ballpark experience issues would be solved by winning. But, lacking a competitive team (which is also the fault of Sox management), where are they seeing benefits from all their survey-driven PR decisions? :dunno: