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Frater Perdurabo
04-25-2013, 11:02 PM
Nice job by Sale to pitch around the walks.

Frater Perdurabo
04-25-2013, 11:03 PM
Credit to Dunn for clobbering a big two-run tater to pad the lead.

Stanley
04-25-2013, 11:04 PM
Reed has great stuff.

BleacherBandit
04-25-2013, 11:05 PM
Credit to Dunn for clobbering a big two-run tater to pad the lead.

look who raised his BA over .100 today!

apart from the walks, Sale looked good today going seven innings.

Nice bullpen work, too.

Also: Gillespie was safe.

ChiSoxGal85
04-25-2013, 11:08 PM
Sale a little shaky with command, but dug his heels in and got 'er done.

Yeah, I know I'm off a day but....
DnVrSZHnvYY

aryzner
04-25-2013, 11:30 PM
Credit to Dunn for clobbering a big two-run tater to pad the lead.

To his credit also, I didn't see his 4th AB but his first 3 including the HR were hard hit balls.

Zakath
04-25-2013, 11:32 PM
Only 7 hits, but they made them count. Flowers has definitely come back to earth at the plate.

Sox have not won 3 in a row this season, a goal to shoot for with Jake on the mound tomorrow night.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2013, 11:40 PM
They try to win three straight for the first time this season tomorrow night.

2-5 tonight with RISP has jumped the season average up to .170. WOO HOO! :D:

Hey it's progress...:tongue:

Still aren't hitting well overall.

Lip

shingo10
04-25-2013, 11:41 PM
Nothing to complain about here. Wins are precious and it just feels good to get a few in a row. Hopefully Peavy keeps it rolling and hopefully Dunn has turned a corner that can get him back to what he was doing last season.

Kepp is starting to come up with some nice hits for us as well.

TWTW.

TDog
04-25-2013, 11:45 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would want to watch any sports draft, and that was before I heard a football writer in San Francisco today insist that the NFL draft was something that would should be shown to enemy combatants during interrogations. Fortunately, the sam couldn't be said of the White Sox tonight.

A pretty good game. As with most wins, it started with the pitching. Sale got off to a bit of a slow start, and he walked too many. But after the Sox got to Hellickson for three quick runs of their own, he was in control. The Sox struck out too much once again. But while they didn't make the most out of their opportunites, they came close.

Tonight's Dunn home run might have been as big as the Rios home run Wednesday. He seemed to be swinging the bat well tonight and was one of the few White Sox hitters who didn't strike out. The extra two runs probably helped the three in the first stand up.

Turning the game over the bullpen for only two innings with a three-run lead feels like a winning formula. And it's nice to see the bullpen throwing strikes. Nice to see another two-hit game from Keppinger, who appears to be coming around offensively. Generally, I have to feel good about whent the White Sox get the game winning hit with one out in the first.

The Sox had their ace going. It's really the sort of win you should have a right to expect. But tonight it feels especially nice not to be disappointed.

soxnut1018
04-26-2013, 12:08 AM
Twtw.

Boondock Saint
04-26-2013, 12:14 AM
Sale a little shaky with command, but dug his heels in and got 'er done.

Yeah, I know I'm off a day but....
DnVrSZHnvYY

We should just pepper every postgame thread with Major League references/clips until the Sox turn things around.

kittle42
04-26-2013, 12:46 AM
Great to win.

"TWTW" sucks.

amsteel
04-26-2013, 01:01 AM
We should just pepper every postgame thread with Major League references/clips until the Sox turn things around.

It's pretty much impossible for me every time the Sox win to not picture the Japanese groundskeepers. 'They're still ****ty'.

JB98
04-26-2013, 02:49 AM
The Sox have the pitching to compete in the American League. They'd win more games with just average offensive production.

Tonight, they got average offensive production. And they won.

cards press box
04-26-2013, 05:15 AM
Still aren't hitting well overall.

Lip

The Sox have the pitching to compete in the American League. They'd win more games with just average offensive production.

Tonight, they got average offensive production. And they won.

I have to wonder how long the Sox will go before doing something about the catching position. Tyler Flowers is a decent defensive catcher and can hit the occasional homer but pitchers really seem to have his number, especially with any halfway decent type of breaking pitches.

Anyway, this was a good game tonight and it's nice to say

:winner

SephClone89
04-26-2013, 08:25 AM
Off-topic: I actually had no idea that last night was the NFL draft until I turned on the radio this morning.

doublem23
04-26-2013, 08:55 AM
The Sox have the pitching to compete in the American League. They'd win more games with just average offensive production.

Tonight, they got average offensive production. And they won.

Pretty much

Railsplitter
04-26-2013, 09:00 AM
Sale a little shaky with command, but dug his heels in and got 'er done.

Yeah, I know I'm off a day but....
DnVrSZHnvYY

Sox are the only AL Central team that has won it's past two games.
:bandance::bandance:

Stanley
04-26-2013, 09:47 AM
They are still ****ty, but last nights game was nice to see.

Detroit at 10-10 is hilarious to say the least.

hawkjt
04-26-2013, 12:41 PM
Sox are second in the league in ERA...of course,not sure that the saber folks consider that a viable stat anymore.

Good to see Dunn making solid contact in three straight at bats.
Need more bombs.
Weather starting to moderate...could be time to win,Sox!

kepp needs to have a big series against his old mates...so far,so good!

Baby steps...unlike kittle, I have not given up as of April 25.

Now, Jake...go get us a win!

SI1020
04-26-2013, 12:54 PM
Sox are second in the league in ERA...of course,not sure that the saber folks consider that a viable stat anymore.
Top 5 MLB teams in all time winning pct.

Yanks .568
Giants .538
Dodgers .524
Cardinals .518
Red Sox .517

Top 5 MLB teams in all time ERA

Dodgers 3.54
Giants 3.55
Braves 3.64
Yanks 3.67
Cardinals 3.68

kittle42
04-26-2013, 01:00 PM
Sox are second in the league in ERA...of course,not sure that the saber folks consider that a viable stat anymore.

It is questionable how important it is for judging pitchers, but for a team, I argue it is relevant. More relevant is runs allowed per game, which I think the Sox place 4th or 5th in the majors in, so same difference here.

[quote]Baby steps...unlike kittle, I have not given up as of April 25.

I haven't "given up" in the sense that "anything is possible." I just hate the makeup of this team and the franchise's insistence on this treading water/barely able to "compete" in the division approach. A team underperforming with talent (Tigers) is different than a team with glaring holes (not that the Tigers are perfect) that are already showing themselves.

hawkjt
04-26-2013, 01:13 PM
It is questionable how important it is for judging pitchers, but for a team, I argue it is relevant. More relevant is runs allowed per game, which I think the Sox place 4th or 5th in the majors in, so same difference here.

[quote]Baby steps...unlike kittle, I have not given up as of April 25.

I haven't "given up" in the sense that "anything is possible." I just hate the makeup of this team and the franchise's insistence on this treading water/barely able to "compete" in the division approach. A team underperforming with talent (Tigers) is different than a team with glaring holes (not that the Tigers are perfect) that are already showing themselves.

Ok, makes sense. Call me a romantic,but I still believe in baseball magic...Sox achieved that for 33 weeks last year,but no closure...hope springs eternal in this man's heart.

dickallen15
04-26-2013, 01:16 PM
It is questionable how important it is for judging pitchers, but for a team, I argue it is relevant. More relevant is runs allowed per game, which I think the Sox place 4th or 5th in the majors in, so same difference here.

[quote]Baby steps...unlike kittle, I have not given up as of April 25.

I haven't "given up" in the sense that "anything is possible." I just hate the makeup of this team and the franchise's insistence on this treading water/barely able to "compete" in the division approach. A team underperforming with talent (Tigers) is different than a team with glaring holes (not that the Tigers are perfect) that are already showing themselves.

The Tiger bullpen is problematic for them. I really don't know how you can call that anything but a "glaring hole". And it today's game, a bullpen hole is usually a lot bigger than glaring.

kittle42
04-26-2013, 01:37 PM
The Tiger bullpen is problematic for them. I really don't know how you can call that anything but a "glaring hole". And it today's game, a bullpen hole is usually a lot bigger than glaring.

Every team has a weakness - that's theirs. Ours? The entire offense (I could list everything, but we know what it is), the backend of the rotation til Danks gets his crap together, defense...

shingo10
04-26-2013, 02:31 PM
They are still ****ty, but last nights game was nice to see.

Detroit at 10-10 is hilarious to say the least.


Unfortunately I doubt that they have too many concerns about getting into the postseason after last year. They were a floundering team for much of last year and then cruised into the World Series. Must be nice to have that kind of talent.


TWTW.

doublem23
04-26-2013, 03:24 PM
It is questionable how important it is for judging pitchers, but for a team, I argue it is relevant. More relevant is runs allowed per game, which I think the Sox place 4th or 5th in the majors in, so same difference here.

Basically. ERA is nice overview stat, it tells you basically what you need to know but doesn't offer too much depth. It's basically the pitcher's equivalent of OPS. You can make some snap judgments based on those stats but if you really want to learn more about what's going on you need to dig deeper. Saying someone is a good pitcher because he has the best ERA in the league is a valid statement. Saying someone is the best pitcher in the league because he has the best ERA is more of a gray area.

SI1020
04-26-2013, 03:39 PM
Basically. ERA is nice overview stat, it tells you basically what you need to know but doesn't offer too much depth. It's basically the pitcher's equivalent of OPS. You can make some snap judgments based on those stats but if you really want to learn more about what's going on you need to dig deeper. Saying someone is a good pitcher because he has the best ERA in the league is a valid statement. Saying someone is the best pitcher in the league because he has the best ERA is more of a gray area. If I'm not 100% in agreement with this then I'm pretty damn close.

kittle42
04-26-2013, 03:52 PM
If I'm not 100% in agreement with this then I'm pretty damn close.

Same here. Even just on stats alone, so many other things are better indicators of success.

cards press box
04-26-2013, 06:09 PM
Sox are second in the league in ERA...of course,not sure that the saber folks consider that a viable stat anymore

I think ERA is still pretty important. Ever look at the team ERA leaders at the end of a season? It almost always matches the teams that made the playoffs.

WhiteSox5187
04-26-2013, 08:01 PM
Basically. ERA is nice overview stat, it tells you basically what you need to know but doesn't offer too much depth. It's basically the pitcher's equivalent of OPS. You can make some snap judgments based on those stats but if you really want to learn more about what's going on you need to dig deeper. Saying someone is a good pitcher because he has the best ERA in the league is a valid statement. Saying someone is the best pitcher in the league because he has the best ERA is more of a gray area.

I think for starters at least ERA is a pretty reliable stat. Ultimately EVERY stat provides just a snap shot, but I am hard pressed to think of a starter who posted a good ERA that wasn't actually that good.

ChiSoxGal85
04-26-2013, 08:11 PM
We should just pepper every postgame thread with Major League references/clips until the Sox turn things around.
I'm up for it.

TDog
04-26-2013, 09:51 PM
I think for starters at least ERA is a pretty reliable stat. Ultimately EVERY stat provides just a snap shot, but I am hard pressed to think of a starter who posted a good ERA that wasn't actually that good.

Like any stat, sometimes a starter's ERA can be misleading. I've seen some starters who give up a lot of unearned runs because they have a great deal of difficulty pitching over mistakes. In 2008, it seemed Gavin Floyd gave up an excessive number of unearned runs, really many more than you could blame on the defense. Sometimes it's a dropped two-out fly, but even unearned runs aren't created equal. I once saw the Cubs score 10 unearned runs in an inning after a two-out error that loaded the bases in a still scoreless first inning. And sometimes pitchers stay in the game longer than they should to save an otherwise overworked staff. There is something to be said for a pitcher who eats innings, even if he gives up a few more runs by doing so.

ERAs meant more when starters regularly pitched complete games. Now multimplying earned runs allowed per inning by nine feels a little arbritray. Still, I don't know if I've seen a starter with a great ERA who wasn't a very effective pitcher.

WhiteSox5187
04-26-2013, 10:24 PM
Like any stat, sometimes a starter's ERA can be misleading. I've seen some starters who give up a lot of unearned runs because they have a great deal of difficulty pitching over mistakes. In 2008, it seemed Gavin Floyd gave up an excessive number of unearned runs, really many more than you could blame on the defense. Sometimes it's a dropped two-out fly, but even unearned runs aren't created equal. I once saw the Cubs score 10 unearned runs in an inning after a two-out error that loaded the bases in a still scoreless first inning. And sometimes pitchers stay in the game longer than they should to save an otherwise overworked staff. There is something to be said for a pitcher who eats innings, even if he gives up a few more runs by doing so.

ERAs meant more when starters regularly pitched complete games. Now multimplying earned runs allowed per inning by nine feels a little arbritray. Still, I don't know if I've seen a starter with a great ERA who wasn't a very effective pitcher.

I had no idea that Gavin gave up 19 unearned runs. I am willing to bet that that is an exception rather than the rule, I would think the difference between unearned and earned runs is far less.

I also wouldn't say that it indicates a pitcher can't overcome mistakes made by his defense (though sometimes that is the case), I think it is also indicative of a bad defensive team. Buerhle gave up a lot of unearned runs back in 2003, while he had a bad year that year, the 2003 was horrendous defensively. If you're a ground ball pitcher like Buerhle you need your defense to come through for you.

kittle42
04-26-2013, 10:30 PM
I think for starters at least ERA is a pretty reliable stat. Ultimately EVERY stat provides just a snap shot, but I am hard pressed to think of a starter who posted a good ERA that wasn't actually that good.

I can probably find a guy whose xERA was like a run or more higher than his ERA, but I'm too lazy right now.

WhiteSox5187
04-26-2013, 10:34 PM
I can probably find a guy whose xERA was like a run or more higher than his ERA, but I'm too lazy right now.

I'm sure there are a ton of a relievers like that, but a starter? And again, there is the question of whether or not that says something about the pitcher or about the defense behind him. A sinkerball guy who gives up a lot of unearned runs is probably being let down by his defense more than anything else.

TDog
04-26-2013, 11:37 PM
I had no idea that Gavin gave up 19 unearned runs. I am willing to bet that that is an exception rather than the rule, I would think the difference between unearned and earned runs is far less.

I also wouldn't say that it indicates a pitcher can't overcome mistakes made by his defense (though sometimes that is the case), I think it is also indicative of a bad defensive team. Buerhle gave up a lot of unearned runs back in 2003, while he had a bad year that year, the 2003 was horrendous defensively. If you're a ground ball pitcher like Buerhle you need your defense to come through for you.

I didn't look up Gavin Floyd's unearned runs, although I was guessing it would be around 20. Yes, even 19 unearned runs is excessive for a season. I was remembering innings where an error prevented a third out and he gave up a couple of hits after that. Many unearned runs, while unearned, are runs that strong pitching can prevent.

WhiteSox5187
04-27-2013, 12:29 AM
I didn't look up Gavin Floyd's unearned runs, although I was guessing it would be around 20. Yes, even 19 unearned runs is excessive for a season. I was remembering innings where an error prevented a third out and he gave up a couple of hits after that. Many unearned runs, while unearned, are runs that strong pitching can prevent.

Again, I think it depends on the pitcher. I would say that Mark Buehrle is a strong pitcher but he relies on his defense. If his shortstop boots a ground ball that is right at him, there isn't much that Buerhle can do about that.

TDog
04-28-2013, 01:54 PM
Again, I think it depends on the pitcher. I would say that Mark Buehrle is a strong pitcher but he relies on his defense. If his shortstop boots a ground ball that is right at him, there isn't much that Buerhle can do about that.

You can make assumptions by looking at raw stats based on your experience, and you might be right. My assumpiton when I see a pitcher giving up a lot of unearned runs is that he couldn't pitch over mistakes as well as other pitchers. If Mark Buehrle is giving up five or so unearned runs in a season, I can assume a few infield defenive mistakes, maybe one or two botched double plays that led to a runners scoring from second base. But in 2008, there were games when he couldn't stop the bleeding, although not as much as often as Floyd who could give me the impression that he didn't care about giving up unearned runs because they didn't count against him.

My assumption when I see a pitcher with 10 or 20 unearned runs in a season is that the the pitcher is to blame for a lot of those unearned runs. I saw it happen with Floyd and Buehrle in 2008. A good example of what I'm talking about was on display in the fourth inning of Saturday night's Giants-Padres game. Barry Zito gave up six runs, five of which were unearned, in the fourth inning. There was one error, coming on a ball Carlos Quentin hit the outfield with one out and none on. At that point, Zito had a 5-0 lead. Zito got only one more out before the Padres knocked him out.

Not all unearned runs are created equal.

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2013, 02:00 PM
You can make assumptions by looking at raw stats based on your experience, and you might be right. My assumpiton when I see a pitcher giving up a lot of unearned runs is that he couldn't pitch over mistakes as well as other pitchers. If Mark Buehrle is giving up five or so unearned runs in a season, I can assume a few infield defenive mistakes, maybe one or two botched double plays that led to a runners scoring from second base. But in 2008, there were games when he couldn't stop the bleeding, although not as much as often as Floyd who could give me the impression that he didn't care about giving up unearned runs because they didn't count against him.

My assumption when I see a pitcher with 10 or 20 unearned runs in a season is that the the pitcher is to blame for a lot of those unearned runs. I saw it happen with Floyd and Buehrle in 2008. A good example of what I'm talking about was on display in the fourth inning of Saturday night's Giants-Padres game. Barry Zito gave up six runs, five of which were unearned, in the fourth inning. There was one error, coming on a ball Carlos Quentin hit the outfield with one out and none on. At that point, Zito had a 5-0 lead. Zito got only one more out before the Padres knocked him out.

Not all unearned runs are created equal.

That is true and there is one game in 2008 in particular that I recall Buerhle couldn't pitch over a mistake by the defense (I think it was against the Angels and I think that was the game Buehrle took a bat to a cooler in the dugout). I think for unearned runs you have to watch the game to see. A sinker ball guy needs his defense to back him up and if he is getting guys to hit ground balls and guys behind him are either booting the ball or just can't quite get there, that is on the defense. But if it is the sort of thing that happened to Bartolo Colon in 2009 where one guy makes an error and then all of a sudden Colon gives up 7 runs, that's on the pitcher.