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Viva Medias B's
04-24-2013, 08:21 PM
In a desperate attempt to fill seats at Marlins Park, the Miami Marlins have lowered ticket prices.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/24/3362949/miami-marlins-tickets-for-sale.html

Red Barchetta
04-24-2013, 09:12 PM
A real sad story in Miami. Newest ballpark in MLB and they are last in NL attendance.

From what I've seen on TV, it's a nice ballpark. I would change some of the colors, but otherwise, it seems very nice and unique to the market.

They must really hate the owner...

Shoeless_Jeff
04-24-2013, 10:31 PM
So... is this surprising anyone?

WLL1855
04-25-2013, 12:40 AM
A real sad story in Miami. Newest ballpark in MLB and they are last in NL attendance.

From what I've seen on TV, it's a nice ballpark. I would change some of the colors, but otherwise, it seems very nice and unique to the market.

They must really hate the owner...

I don't know. The abomination in the outfield and the whole aquariums motif don't really scream baseball to me. Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm guessing that place is getting a huge overhaul if/when ownership changes.

amsteel
04-25-2013, 12:59 AM
Having been to the park, it's gaudy but very high end, just like Miami, or at least the way Miami portrays itself. Probably my favorite park. Definitely the most unique.

It's in a TERRIBLE neighborhood. I wonder how much of a role that plays in the poor attendance.

Boondock Saint
04-25-2013, 01:49 AM
Who the hell wants to support a team that pulls the rug out from under the fans every time they start to get good so that Loria can make/save an extra buck?

thomas35forever
04-25-2013, 02:10 AM
Are they going to be the first team to pay fans to come to games?

Red Barchetta
04-25-2013, 07:31 AM
I don't know. The abomination in the outfield and the whole aquariums motif don't really scream baseball to me. Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm guessing that place is getting a huge overhaul if/when ownership changes.

Those are all pretty easy changes if they decide to try and improve the park. Brick, mortar and paint is pretty much all they need.

The outfield Marlin looks like a state fair attraction and has the enduring quality of a plastic pink flamingo lawn ornament. :?:

The first thing I would do if I was the owner would bring back the original teal uniforms. Just replace the "F" with a "M".

Max Power
04-27-2013, 10:51 AM
I can't see them drawing a crowd until Loria sells. He and Samson are so toxic mosquitoes won't touch them. If I lived in Miami I wouldn't go either.

If a new owner arrived, brought back their original uniforms and removed the home-run display, their attendance would probably double instantly.

Southsider101
04-27-2013, 05:26 PM
Wow, what a bad situation. Five thousand season ticket holders? That's on the same level as some minor league teams. I know that in past years the St Paul Saints have had more than that. But getting free Marlin's tickets with a purchase of a sandwich or pizza is the complete bottom of the barrel. I don't know Loria's relationship with Selig, but MLB needs to elbow this guy out of the picture and find an owner who will invest in this ball club. The baseball fans of South Florida deserve better than this train wreck.

skobabe8
04-27-2013, 05:35 PM
David Samson is the biggest ******* in MLB.

Milw
04-27-2013, 08:47 PM
Banner ads promoting Marlins Reyes jerseys probably aren't helping things.

StillMissOzzie
04-27-2013, 09:53 PM
It seems to me that the relationship between Loria and Miami in general: the fans, the non-sports fans that paid for that new stadium, and the local politicians - has soured to the point where even free tickets aren't going to help.

SMO
:gulp:

amsteel
04-27-2013, 10:18 PM
Banner ads promoting Marlins Reyes jerseys probably aren't helping things.

That looks like it's the Miami Herald's ad, not the ball club's.

doublem23
04-28-2013, 12:01 AM
Say every bad thing in the book about the Marlins, they deserve it, but it only took them 10 home games and probably no fan surveys to realize their pricing structure was completely unrealistic

amsteel
04-28-2013, 05:26 PM
It seems to me that the relationship between Loria and Miami in general: the fans, the non-sports fans that paid for that new stadium, and the local politicians - has soured to the point where even free tickets aren't going to help.

SMO
:gulp:

Whatever income Loria is losing in ticket sales pales in comparison to the increased value in the franchise from getting the new stadium. So even if people don't show, he's making money in the long run.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/03/30/financial-report-marlins-worth-16-percent-more-than-in-2011/

The guy's a dick, but he's a dick that knows how to make money.

Golden Sox
04-28-2013, 08:07 PM
I could see why the Marlins fans are upset. I somewhat understand why the owner blew up the team after the 2012 season. I can't understand why he blew up the team and wound up with an old team of players who are past there prime. When your lineup features Pierre, Kearns, Polanco and Olivo, you're not exactly building a team with a bright future.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2013, 11:56 PM
Whatever income Loria is losing in ticket sales pales in comparison to the increased value in the franchise from getting the new stadium. So even if people don't show, he's making money in the long run.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/03/30/financial-report-marlins-worth-16-percent-more-than-in-2011/

The guy's a dick, but he's a dick that knows how to make money.

And remember he was getting revenue shared money for years, with an atrocious team he was making millions in profit.

Lip

DSpivack
05-08-2013, 10:09 AM
Now they're closing the upper deck for some games:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/08/3385954/miami-marlins-to-close-upper-bowl.html

WhiteSox5187
05-08-2013, 12:52 PM
Now they're closing the upper deck for some games:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/08/3385954/miami-marlins-to-close-upper-bowl.html

I'm sure that they will have a million tickets sold, but I wonder if they will actually have a million people go thru the turnstiles this year. My guess is no.

mrfourni
05-08-2013, 01:35 PM
Now they're closing the upper deck for some games:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/08/3385954/miami-marlins-to-close-upper-bowl.html

I really wish the Sox played down there this year. Sounds like Sox fans making the trip would have had a ballpark all to themselves.

Lip Man 1
05-08-2013, 04:07 PM
Saw the report on the Marlins on HBO's Real Sports last night, Sampson came across as someone who isn't willing to come to grips with reality.

Lip

Viva Medias B's
05-08-2013, 09:06 PM
Uncle Bud needs to step in and rescue the franchise.

WhiteSox5187
05-08-2013, 09:18 PM
Uncle Bud needs to step in and rescue the franchise.

This is far worse than what was going on with the Dodgers when Selig forced McCourt out, the difference is that Loira is one of Selig's guys. McCourt wasn't.

doublem23
05-08-2013, 09:24 PM
Uncle Bud needs to step in and rescue the franchise.

Short of just giving the city of Miami a ****load of money to help pay off the debt they had to take on to build this ugly ass ballpark nobody goes to, I'm not sure what he can do exactly

Lip Man 1
05-08-2013, 09:46 PM
I guess if the SEC finds him guilty of illegal activities he can be forced out by Bud but that will probably take a few years to work through the court system.

Lip

Irishsox1
05-09-2013, 10:20 AM
The decision to put pro baseball in Miami was and is a horrible decision. There isn't a market there to support it. And now the local government has injected themselves into a market to "create jobs" but in the end, they and the tax payers are trying to support a market where there isn't one.

Even if the owner of the Marlins wasn't a slimeball and the Marlins were good, the fans won't support the team.

They should cut their losses and move to San Antonio.

Lip Man 1
05-09-2013, 11:11 AM
San Antonio is to small of a city in my opinion. Same as Portland and Salt Lake City. If MLB feels the need to move anywhere I suspect the only really viable candidates are Montreal or maybe...maybe...Vancouver.

Lip

Golden Sox
05-09-2013, 11:52 AM
I would think the only place to move to would be to New Jersey. Put a baseball stadium somewhere near the football stadium where the Giants and Jets play. I don't know if the Yankees/Mets would have territorial rights there or not.

doublem23
05-09-2013, 12:10 PM
I would think the only place to move to would be to New Jersey. Put a baseball stadium somewhere near the football stadium where the Giants and Jets play. I don't know if the Yankees/Mets would have territorial rights there or not.

I would think they do, but I agree with you in that's about the only legitimate market that could support a baseball team right now. Maybe Montreal if Selig and Loria hadn't ****ed them so hard.

SI1020
05-09-2013, 12:46 PM
There really aren't very many options for expansion or transfer in MLB today.

Milw
05-09-2013, 12:49 PM
San Antonio is to small of a city in my opinion. Same as Portland and Salt Lake City. If MLB feels the need to move anywhere I suspect the only really viable candidates are Montreal or maybe...maybe...Vancouver.

Lip
A stadium on the Vegas Strip would be incredibly successful, I believe. I know MLB would never go for it due to the league's uneasy history with gambling, and I realize the local market in Vegas is relatively small, but attendance would be strong from visiting fans and just tourists who want a diversion. Pipe dream, but it would be awesome.

Otherwise, the only other market that really makes sense is Montreal. With a modern stadium and an ownership group that is committed to the market, the fans there will come out. Basing Montreal's viability on the Expos' last few years' attendance figures just isn't fair, as Loria and MLB did everything they could to sabotage that fanbase (and playing in easily the worst ballpark I've ever visited surely didn't help).

DSpivack
05-09-2013, 01:27 PM
The new stadium has cost the local government, what, over $2 billion? They ain't moving.

Milw
05-09-2013, 01:37 PM
The new stadium has cost the local government, what, over $2 billion? They ain't moving.
The Marlins (and MLB, for that matter) have shown utter disdain for the government and people of Miami. Unless there's an ironclad lease involved (and there may be, I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't) then what makes you think either entity cares that the city is on the hook?

doublem23
05-09-2013, 01:56 PM
The new stadium has cost the local government, what, over $2 billion? They ain't moving.

Not yet, but it will once all the bonds that were taken out to finance the park's construction are finally paid off.

The only thing I hope is that this Miami deal is so utterly horrendous that it finally acts as the tipping point for local governments to stop handing over millions of dollars to subsidize these billion dollar sports leagues. At least with baseball, there appears to be very little real possible markets that could sustain an MLB team available, unlike the NFL and NBA which are using Los Angeles and Seattle as leverage. But the state legislature in Florida has apparently not been very receptive to the Dolphins' request to publicly finance renovations to Sun Life Stadium. They're making noise that this may force them to move... We'll have to see how it plays out.

asindc
05-09-2013, 03:52 PM
I would think they do, but I agree with you in that's about the only legitimate market that could support a baseball team right now. Maybe Montreal if Selig and Loria hadn't ****ed them so hard.

Loria would be as welcomed back to Montreal as Modell would have been back in Cleveland.

Mr. Jinx
05-09-2013, 04:21 PM
A stadium on the Vegas Strip would be incredibly successful, I believe. I know MLB would never go for it due to the league's uneasy history with gambling, and I realize the local market in Vegas is relatively small, but attendance would be strong from visiting fans and just tourists who want a diversion. Pipe dream, but it would be awesome.


Basing a team around drawing tourists with a small local core crowd would be disastrous. I just don't think people would go to Vegas to watch a team they have no interest in.

DSpivack
05-09-2013, 04:30 PM
Basing a team around drawing tourists with a small local core crowd would be disastrous. I just don't think people would go to Vegas to watch a team they have no interest in.

Exactly. Vegas is/was one of the hardest markets in the recession. There isn't a lot of disposable income there.

Max Power
05-10-2013, 03:48 PM
Good story (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9259370/miami-marlins-fan-woes/) about the scene at and around Marlins Park.

Red Barchetta
05-10-2013, 05:38 PM
Good story (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9259370/miami-marlins-fan-woes/) about the scene at and around Marlins Park.

That's what they get for installing blue seats. Don't they know that you have to have green seats to improve attendance? :tongue:

I also read that they plan to keep the roof closed this season for all games. The "official" reason is that there is an issue with the AC system, however the truth is that it costs a lot of money to open and then reclose the roof and re-cool the ballpark. With such low attendance, why bother with opening the roof?

Florida baseball is in bad shape.

Southsider101
05-15-2013, 07:27 PM
Interesting piece from Atlantic Cities. You know it's a bad situation when pizza chains and The Tilted Kilt are pulling out.


http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2013/05/more-evidence-marlins-park-was-horrible-deal-miami/5533/

Shoeless
05-27-2013, 10:46 AM
San Antonio is to small of a city in my opinion. Same as Portland and Salt Lake City. If MLB feels the need to move anywhere I suspect the only really viable candidates are Montreal or maybe...maybe...Vancouver.

Lip

If San Antonio is too small for a baseball franchise, there are no available markets left that are big enough by your criteria. There are 2.1 million people in the San Antonio metropolitan area. That's big enough. Especially when you consider the Austin metropolitan area is 1.3 million people and it's only an hour north.

I say, if you had to (this will never happen), put the Pirates in the NL East, put the Astros back in the NL Central, and put the San Antonio Whatevers in the AL West.

But the real reason you can't put a baseball team in Texas is it's time zone. The Rangers pull it off (the Astros don't anymore). Every time a team in Texas plays a division game, the game is on at 9 or 10 o'clock at night. Doesn't bode well for a new franchise.

doublem23
05-27-2013, 11:12 AM
If San Antonio is too small for a baseball franchise, there are no available markets left that are big enough by your criteria. There are 2.1 million people in the San Antonio metropolitan area. That's big enough. Especially when you consider the Austin metropolitan area is 1.3 million people and it's only an hour north.

It's probably not when you consider Kansas City, long lamented for it's small market status, is a bigger MSA

Hitmen77
05-28-2013, 01:13 PM
Not yet, but it will once all the bonds that were taken out to finance the park's construction are finally paid off.

The only thing I hope is that this Miami deal is so utterly horrendous that it finally acts as the tipping point for local governments to stop handing over millions of dollars to subsidize these billion dollar sports leagues. At least with baseball, there appears to be very little real possible markets that could sustain an MLB team available, unlike the NFL and NBA which are using Los Angeles and Seattle as leverage. But the state legislature in Florida has apparently not been very receptive to the Dolphins' request to publicly finance renovations to Sun Life Stadium. They're making noise that this may force them to move... We'll have to see how it plays out.

How long will that be? Doesn't the typical publicly financed statdium take a few decades to pay off?

It's probably not when you consider Kansas City, long lamented for it's small market status, is a bigger MSA

Agreed. It looks like San Antonio metro is approximately the same size as Kansas City, Charlotte, and even Indianapolis.

It's been discussed many times, but the problem with finding a new MLB market is that a successful team needs to sell something like 2.5 million tickets every year. We're talking about twice as many games as the NBA or NHL in a stadium that seats about twice as many people as the typical NBA/NHL arena.

There simply aren't enough good alternatives out there for the Marlins, Rays, and A's. The Marlins aren't going anywhere. What I'd be interested in seeing is how the Marlins would do with their new park if they had a team like the Rays - which has been fairly successful/competitive on the field over the past 5 seasons.

Mr. Jinx
05-28-2013, 01:27 PM
How long will that be? Doesn't the typical publicly financed statdium take a few decades to pay off?



Agreed. It looks like San Antonio metro is approximately the same size as Kansas City, Charlotte, and even Indianapolis.

It's been discussed many times, but the problem with finding a new MLB market is that a successful team needs to sell something like 2.5 million tickets every year. We're talking about twice as many games as the NBA or NHL in a stadium that seats about twice as many people as the typical NBA/NHL arena.

There simply aren't enough good alternatives out there for the Marlins, Rays, and A's. The Marlins aren't going anywhere. What I'd be interested in seeing is how the Marlins would do with their new park if they had a team like the Rays - which has been fairly successful/competitive on the field over the past 5 seasons.

Seems that nobody in Miami cares or goes to the games unless they have a winner. Just see the Heat for a perfect example of how big of a bandwagon town that is.

Milw
05-28-2013, 01:34 PM
Seems that nobody in Miami cares or goes to the games unless they have a winner.
Around here, Sox fans wear that sentiment as a badge of pride. (Maybe not the part about caring, but certainly the part about going to games.) Funny how perspectives can change.

Milw
05-28-2013, 02:53 PM
Why not Mexico City? I know it's not the wealthiest market, and there are some security issues to address, but it's an enormous metro area where baseball is very popular... And whatever team is there would become the de facto team for all of Latin America. Seems like a tremendous opportunity.

Further down the road, Communism will eventually fall in Cuba. Seems like Havana could be an option at that point.