PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 4/22 Blow It Up Cle 3 Sox 2 Postgame Thread


shingo10
04-22-2013, 11:06 PM
Seriously, this is garbage.

End the cycle now.

DrCrawdad
04-22-2013, 11:08 PM
It's ugly, very ugly.

:therapy:

WhiteSox5187
04-22-2013, 11:09 PM
Seriously, this is garbage.

End the cycle now.

How? No one would take any of these guys. This is a bad baseball team playing bad baseball, a result of years of bad moves and totally neglecting the farm system.

ohiosoxfan
04-22-2013, 11:10 PM
wow. . amazing how long it took for someone to start a post game post. . . should be a pretty telling statement about how things are going. Wonder if anyone notices on the Sox staff. .

WhiteSox5187
04-22-2013, 11:11 PM
wow. . amazing how long it took for someone to start a post game post. . . should be a pretty telling statement about how things are going. Wonder if anyone notices on the Sox staff. .

Oh I am sure they know that they have a bad team, but will anyone do anything to fix it? I don't know. It's hard to fix something like this when the guys responsible for this sort of mess wind up getting promoted.

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2013, 11:12 PM
I hate this franchise and everything about it.

billyvsox
04-22-2013, 11:13 PM
oh i am sure they know that they have a bad team, but will anyone do anything to fix it? I don't know. It's hard to fix something like this when the guys responsible for this sort of mess wind up getting promoted.

+1

ohiosoxfan
04-22-2013, 11:13 PM
Oh I am sure they know that they have a bad team, but will anyone do anything to fix it? I don't know. It's hard to fix something like this when the guys responsible for this sort of mess wind up getting promoted.

It's amazing but Cleveland is in the same boat. . . Shapiro is now the president of that club that he basically destroyed. Teams seem to be following the government- reward mediocrity.

MUsoxfan
04-22-2013, 11:13 PM
This team is not very good at playing baseball.

doublem23
04-22-2013, 11:14 PM
How? No one would take any of these guys. This is a bad baseball team playing bad baseball, a result of years of bad moves and totally neglecting the farm system.

You could probably fetch a nice return for Rios and Peavy. Maybe Konerko. Maybe Alexei.

The rest? Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh....

Tragg
04-22-2013, 11:15 PM
There was zero positional depth to start the year....when Wise is your bench bat, you aren't making a serious effort. And with 2 injuries, it's AAAA time and that's that. The infield defense is stunningly poor.

ohiosoxfan
04-22-2013, 11:15 PM
well, if you want to go to any games this year, Stub Hub will have some great deals as the year goes on!

WhiteSox5187
04-22-2013, 11:15 PM
You could probably fetch a nice return for Rios and Peavy. Maybe Konerko. Maybe Alexei.

The rest? Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh....

Peavy could probably get something, I still think Rios' contract is prohibitive. Konerko has 10/5 rights (though why he would want to stay), Alexei might get something as well.

ChiSoxGal85
04-22-2013, 11:15 PM
This team is really hard to watch right now.

roylestillman
04-22-2013, 11:17 PM
The first five months of the 2012 season was the aberration. This is the 2011 team. I really think Dunn is single handedly wrecking this franchise.

ohiosoxfan
04-22-2013, 11:18 PM
The first five months of the 2012 season was the aberration. This is the 2011 team. I really think Dunn is single handedly wrecking this franchise.

The best thing they could do right now is to release Dunn tomorrow. . .would make the lineup better and make a statement to both the team AND the fans that this performance is unacceptable.

thomas35forever
04-22-2013, 11:19 PM
Glad I didn't watch this one. I'd have been mighty depressed otherwise.

doublem23
04-22-2013, 11:19 PM
Peavy could probably get something, I still think Rios' contract is prohibitive. Konerko has 10/5 rights (though why he would want to stay), Alexei might get something as well.

Rios only has one more year at $12.5 million and then a $1 million buyout for 2015 which is very reasonable for a guy whose hitting .313/.387/.597 and 3 stolen bases already.

Hopefully he stays healthy and productive for a few more months, I really do think some contender looking to add a bat would add him at this point. The nightmare of 2011 is long in the rear view mirror.

RockJock07
04-22-2013, 11:19 PM
The unfortunate part is that the offense has no help on the way. Gordon, while hurt, has been below average at the plate since after his rookie year.

I don't really know what to say. Is Hahn really the answer, IDK but it's probably to early to tell on that.

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2013, 11:20 PM
This team is really hard to watch right now.


I have been saying it for the last 3-4 seasons now. There is nothing worse than having a team that can't hit.

I would take the no pitching all slugging Jerry Manuel teams over this crap all day any day.

Didn't win ****, but at least kept me interested to watch every night. Tired of 5 hit 2-3 run performances every night. I rather watch Soccer.

Lip Man 1
04-22-2013, 11:21 PM
Again the lack of offense is giving the pitching staff no room for any mistakes.

Sox have now failed to drive in a runner in scoring position in their last 10 opportunities. Now 17-104 on the year (.163)

Sox have now scored three runs or less in 10 of their 19 games (53% -that's high even for the Sox)

Defense is awful, hitting is worse. The good thing I guess is that unless they snap out of it (or get healthy) by June it's not going to matter. Easier on the fans.

Lip

Noneck
04-22-2013, 11:21 PM
Peavy could probably get something, I still think Rios' contract is prohibitive. Konerko has 10/5 rights (though why he would want to stay), Alexei might get something as well.

Peavy and Rios will get them something. Ramirez not much, Konerko nada.

soltrain21
04-22-2013, 11:23 PM
The unfortunate part is that the offense has no help on the way. Gordon, while hurt, has been below average at the plate since after his rookie year.

I don't really know what to say. Is Hahn really the answer, IDK but it's probably to early to tell on that.

Way way way too early to know that. Guy was given nothing.

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2013, 11:23 PM
The best thing they could do right now is to release Dunn tomorrow. . .would make the lineup better and make a statement to both the team AND the fans that this performance is unacceptable.


The Sox will never do that.

At the very least, bench him for good. Piss him off so much he negotiates a buy out/deferment with the Sox as opposed to riding the bench the entire year.

Not sure if it's allowed with the CBA, not an expert in that department.

MUsoxfan
04-22-2013, 11:24 PM
I rather watch Soccer.

Lets not start making crazy statements we can't take back :cool:

WhiteSox5187
04-22-2013, 11:24 PM
Peavy and Rios will get them something. Ramirez not much, Konerko nada.

The problem is, I am not sure I have faith in the White Sox scouting department to identify talent worth getting back from those guys. Aren't a lot of the guys who thought that Wilson Betemit was the next Juan Uribe and Jeff Marquez was the next Jon Garland still around?

doublem23
04-22-2013, 11:24 PM
Peavy and Rios will get them something. Ramirez not much, Konerko nada.

I think Konerko could get you a busted prospect in need of a change of scenery. Plenty of teams have those guys lying around. Early returns on Gillaspie seem positive.

Nice thing about the expanded playoffs is there are going to be more contenders, which means more buyers, which means it's a seller's market.

Soxman219
04-22-2013, 11:26 PM
I truly think that Ventura has already checked out and doesn't want to manage next season. Can't say I blame him, the offense was abysmal before he got here. An absolute disgrace.

doublem23
04-22-2013, 11:27 PM
The problem is, I am not sure I have faith in the White Sox scouting department to identify talent worth getting back from those guys. Aren't a lot of the guys who thought that Wilson Betemit was the next Juan Uribe and Jeff Marquez was the next Jon Garland still around?

FWIW, I don't know if it was Ozzie or the Sox, who seem to be black hole for talent lately, but since he moved on from here, he's actually been a pretty productive player. 2010-2012 his line is .280/.346/.459 while playing about 100 games per season.

DrCrawdad
04-22-2013, 11:27 PM
Lets not start making crazy statements we can't take back :cool:

Laugh.

The problem is, I am not sure I have faith in the White Sox scouting department to identify talent worth getting back from those guys. Aren't a lot of the guys who thought that Wilson Betemit was the next Juan Uribe and Jeff Marquez was the next Jon Garland still around?

Lose lunch.

I think Konerko could get you a busted prospect in need of a change of scenery. Plenty of teams have those guys lying around. Early returns on Gillaspie seem positive.

Nice thing about the expanded playoffs is there are going to be more contenders, which means more buyers, which means it's a seller's market.

That weird moment of serenity after puking.

Noneck
04-22-2013, 11:28 PM
I truly think that Ventura has already checked out and doesn't want to manage next season.


I really thought he was going leave after last year. I bet he wish he did.

AnkleSox
04-22-2013, 11:29 PM
The Sox will never do that.

At the very least, bench him for good. Piss him off so much he negotiates a buy out/deferment with the Sox as opposed to riding the bench the entire year.

Not sure if it's allowed with the CBA, not an expert in that department.

I don't really think Dunn gives a ****. He'd probably be happy to make his millions and not have to stand up 4 times a game and take 3 ****ty hacks.

WhiteSox5187
04-22-2013, 11:30 PM
FWIW, I don't know if it was Ozzie or the Sox, who seem to be black hole for talent lately, but since he moved on from here, he's actually been a pretty productive player. 2010-2012 his line is .280/.346/.459 while playing about 100 games per season.

Well, when he was acquired Kenny was touting him as a potential shortstop. It might be the change of scenery because it's not like he was that good before he got here.

ohiosoxfan
04-22-2013, 11:33 PM
I don't really think Dunn gives a ****. He'd probably be happy to make his millions and not have to stand up 4 times a game and take 3 ****ty hacks.

It would be well worth the millions spent so that we WOULDN'T have to watch him take those 3 ****ty hacks. . .

tstrike2000
04-22-2013, 11:34 PM
For the most part, the starting pitching's been good lately. Not much else positive to say. The defense started out bad and Beckham's injury just compounds that. The other unfortunate thing is Tank was hitting pretty well when he went down. Walks, errors, mental lapses, and an anemic offense aren't making for too much fun.

doublem23
04-22-2013, 11:35 PM
Well, when he was acquired Kenny was touting him as a potential shortstop. It might be the change of scenery because it's not like he was that good before he got here.

I would hope people by now realize that front office personnel of all teams always project a positive vibe for the cameras and the press.

The bottom line is, though, that for whatever reason, Betemit has bounced around to 3 different teams in the last 3 years and he has played well at every stop. Didn't work out here for whatever reason, but he was clearly a talented player.

soxfan21
04-22-2013, 11:40 PM
This crap is getting really old really quick, really debating renewing season tickets next year.

amsteel
04-22-2013, 11:46 PM
I'd hate to be a season ticket rep come August trying to convince all the new STHs to renew.

Lip Man 1
04-22-2013, 11:52 PM
I would hope people by now realize that front office personnel of all teams always project a positive vibe for the cameras and the press.

The bottom line is, though, that for whatever reason, Betemit has bounced around to 3 different teams in the last 3 years and he has played well at every stop. Didn't work out here for whatever reason, but he was clearly a talented player.

Double's point is a good one and when you think about it the same things seems to hold true for Swisher.

Very productive with the Yankkes and off to a good start in Cleveland.

Makes you just wonder if he really wanted to play for the Sox in the first place.

Lip

DrCrawdad
04-22-2013, 11:58 PM
Double's point is a good one and when you think about it the same things seems to hold true for Swisher.

Very productive with the Yankkes and off to a good start in Cleveland.

Makes you just wonder if he really wanted to play for the Sox in the first place.

Lip

The Sox did quite a bit to put Swisher in a more difficult place to succeed. Swisher is a 1st baseman and corner outfielder. The Sox trotted Swisher in CF for 70 games. And IIRC put him all over the lineup even leading off.

The Sox lost in the two Swisher trades, badly.

amsteel
04-23-2013, 12:06 AM
I really thought he was going leave after last year. I bet he wish he did.

What was the story in the offseason, did he turn down an extension, or just didn't want to negotiate quite yet?

I would love to know his reason for not taking guaranteed money when it was essentially offered to him.

SoxSpeed22
04-23-2013, 12:12 AM
Whatever voodoo magic we seem to use for pitchers has certainly had the opposite effect with our position players. Sometime ago, Coop was talking about trying to put the pitchers in the best position to succeed. You don't really see that in our position players, as Doub, Lip, Crawdad and several others have brought up. They were either playing out of position, moved all over the order or shuffled in and out of the lineup. The Sox have created this crappy environment for position players to play well below their abilities. I do not have an answer, so I'm not going to pretend like I know how to solve this.

Noneck
04-23-2013, 12:15 AM
What was the story in the offseason, did he turn down an extension, or just didn't want to negotiate quite yet?

I would love to know his reason for not taking guaranteed money when it was essentially offered to him.


I think he is a ethical man and will abide by a contract. Maybe he had and has second thoughts but will fulfill a contract. With the money Ventura made as a player this gig is not for the money. Most managers are in it for the money.

Tragg
04-23-2013, 12:16 AM
The problem is, I am not sure I have faith in the White Sox scouting department to identify talent worth getting back from those guys. Aren't a lot of the guys who thought that Wilson Betemit was the next Juan Uribe and Jeff Marquez was the next Jon Garland still around?
That's a big concern. As is the ability of the front office to negotiate and execute a trade.

The bottom line on Betemit is that we got nothing out of him, which means we got nothing for Gio except 1 year of Swisher that we weren't happy with anyway.

shingo10
04-23-2013, 12:17 AM
3 out the past 4 seasons we have had horrific starts to the season. If the past is any indication we might bounce back when it heats up only to run out of gas after the all star break.

I have no answers, only frustration.

Pluses: Solid pitching, Good young arms in the bullpen, Rios,

Negatives: Everything else.

Once again no idea what you can do about it and there doesn't seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel. Will Danks and Beckham make that big of a difference? Probably not. Will having a great draft pick next year mean anything?

Ahh. Rough times.

amsteel
04-23-2013, 12:18 AM
I think he is a ethical man and will abide by a contract. Maybe he had and has second thoughts but will fulfill a contract. With the money Ventura made as a player this gig is not for the money. Most managers are in it for the money.

Is there something ethically that would prevent him from extending a contract before its up?

Noneck
04-23-2013, 12:21 AM
Is there something ethically that would prevent him from extending a contract before its up?


No, my point is I think he doesnt want to continue this gig but will abide by the contract he has.

StillMissOzzie
04-23-2013, 12:24 AM
Wow, yet another two run offensive deluge?

Ugh.

SMO
:angry::mad:

Golden Sox
04-23-2013, 12:24 AM
With all the justifed criticism of Adam Done and Keppinger on these posts, we all to have seemed to overlook how bad DeAza has been. He hasn't hit or played good defense this year at all. I thought when he was benched in Toronto he might get his head out of his rear end, but that hasn't been the case. I hope he comes out of it because we have nothing to replace him with.

amsteel
04-23-2013, 12:28 AM
No, my point is I think he doesnt want to continue this gig but will abide by the contract he has.

Gotcha. I agree, he wouldn't walk away from the job or the cash.

amsteel
04-23-2013, 12:31 AM
With all the justifed criticism of Adam Done and Keppinger on these posts, we all to have seemed to overlook how bad DeAza has been. He hasn't hit or played good defense this year at all. I thought when he was benched in Toronto he might get his head out of his rear end, but that hasn't been the case. I hope he comes out of it because we have nothing to replace him with.

He was a career AAAAer til last year (age 28), no? Expecting him to become an MLB lead off man at that point was wishful thinking.

slavko
04-23-2013, 12:36 AM
Dismal and getting moreso. Don't like a team that won't take a walk? It's part of the plan. At least Dunn said so the first week. Swing early in the count and get better balls to hit, he and the hitting coach came up with it. Still want to fire Greg Walker? Hitting does seem to be a bit of a problem right now. So does more than a decade of patch, patch, patch as a business model.

The AL Central has the Tigers and four teams chasing the cellar. The other three manage to put some young talent on the field. The Sox patch. Kenny lost his job because of it, deservedly so. The blame goes beyond Kenny. If I were running a business and there was no new product in the pipeline, I'd be asking my CEO why. I know some of you don't like the owner interfering with the CEO, but if I were running a business, I damn sure would. Wouldn't you? But we don't have an owner running a business, we have an old man with a hobby. To some of you he's the smartest businessman in the world. To me he's an old man with a hobby.

If an old man looking for a hobby reads this, may I suggest woodworking?

doublem23
04-23-2013, 12:43 AM
The AL Central has the Tigers and four teams chasing the cellar. The other three manage to put some young talent on the field. The Sox patch. Kenny lost his job because of it, deservedly so. The blame goes beyond Kenny. If I were running a business and there was no new product in the pipeline, I'd be asking my CEO why. I know some of you don't like the owner interfering with the CEO, but if I were running a business, I damn sure would. Wouldn't you? But we don't have an owner running a business, we have an old man with a hobby. To some of you he's the smartest businessman in the world. To me he's an old man with a hobby.

The problem with this entire analogy is that you seem to think JR is losing money on his "hobby" when in reality, the Sox are most likely easily taking in tens of millions of dollars in profit every year.

Zakath
04-23-2013, 12:44 AM
Right now, we have absolutely no room for error. One part of the club doesn't function, and we lose. The starters have done their jobs very well, as we haven't surrendered more than 5 runs in the last 8 games (and that was only once). Take out Sale's disastrous start on Saturday the 13th, and it's 8 of 10 where the starters have had good-to-great starts (Floyd's start last Monday vs. Toronto was bad, but he didn't leave us in a position that we couldn't come back from).

Starters' performances over the last eight:
Tonight - 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K (Axelrod, ND in 3-2 loss to CLE)
Sunday - 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 3 BB, 6 K (Floyd, ND in 5-3 loss to MIN)
Saturday - 7 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 9 K (Peavy, ND in 2-1 loss to MIN)
Thursday - 7 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 6 K (Sale, L in 3-1 loss to TOR)
Wednesday - 6.2 IP, 5 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 7 K (Quintana, W in 7-0 win over TOR)
Tuesday - 6 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 4 K (Axelrod, ND in 4-3 win over TOR)
Monday - 4.1 IP, 9 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 6 K (Floyd, L in 4-3 loss to TOR)
Sunday - 7 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 11 K (Peavy, W in 3-1 win over CLE)

The Friday before, Quintana went 7 innings with 1 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, and 7 K and ended up with a ND in a 1-0 loss.

Over those 9, the starter's combined ERA was 1.89. Even add in Sale's performance against Cleveland (4.1 IP, 8 H, 8 ER, 2 BB, 3 K) and it goes to 2.93.

Most any other club, with those performances, could have gone at least 7-3, if not 8-2 or even 9-1. We went 3-7. The offense doesn't produce enough to give us a comfortable lead, and then either the defense or the bullpen, or both, fails us.

It's already been a very long April.

amsteel
04-23-2013, 12:48 AM
To me he's an old man with a hobby.

He's a businessman with a business. A profitable one at that.

Noneck
04-23-2013, 12:59 AM
To me he's an old man with a hobby.




The only hobby guys like this have is collecting green.

slavko
04-23-2013, 01:11 AM
The problem with this entire analogy is that you seem to think JR is losing money on his "hobby" when in reality, the Sox are most likely easily taking in tens of millions of dollars in profit every year.

I never said that and I don't think it. Don't play mindreader. If he's not demanding excellence he's running it like a hobby.

He's a businessman with a business. A profitable one at that. Which he runs like a hobby because he doesn't demand excellence.

The only hobby guys like this have is collecting green. Explain "guys like this."

amsteel
04-23-2013, 01:14 AM
Which he runs like a hobby because he doesn't demand excellence.


If I could make millions off my hobby without being good at it I'd do it too.

JB98
04-23-2013, 03:01 AM
The White Sox have gift-wrapped each of the last four games for their opposition. Walks, errors, bad baserunning, you name it. As a matter of fact, a throwing error has been a big play in three of these last four losses.

Much of the focus has been on the poor offense. Understandably so. But this team is awful defensively. Of the 12 losses, at least half of them have been gift-wrapped with poor defense.

I feel this club has beaten itself more in the first three weeks of this season than it did the first five months of last year.

The start of this season feels like an extension of last September.

Carolina Kenny
04-23-2013, 08:48 AM
The first five months of the 2012 season was the aberration. This is the 2011 team. I really think Dunn is single handedly wrecking this franchise.

Adam Dunn is unwatchable, unproductive for weeks on end. I'm sick of his stupid bubble gum. Keep it in your mouth for gosh sakes. We could of had Giambi or Hafner for LH DH for less money/commitment.

That the Sox management thought Adam would be fan popular because he couild hit 40 HRS, is a affront to all true Sox fans. We know Donkey Crap when we see it.

I am waiting for Robin to assert himself and move Adam down in the lineup. Dont' make me turn on you Robin, you played the game the right way, don't become a ***** now.

Teams are not paying high dollar/long term contracts for DH's. Once again the Sox are behind the learning curve. From the TV broadcasting booth, radio booth, front office, minor leagues, the Sox are a laughing stock of incompetence. It starts at the top and our fearless leader Jerry, can sit in his office with all his memorabilia and feel fufilled.

If Robin had balls, he would move him down to eighth or ninth in the lineup.

Please eat the money and release him, show the fans that someone in this organization has a clue.

doublem23
04-23-2013, 08:58 AM
Teams are not paying high dollar/long term contracts for DH's. Once again the Sox are behind the learning curve.

Eh, they kind of are. The Angels have used Pujols as their DH in more than 1/2 their games already, the Tigers signed Prince Fielder to a deal that will run well past his serviceable playing days at 1B (and their current regular DH basically has the exact same contract as Adam Dunn)...

Dunn's problem is simply not doing anything of value right now.

Bucky F. Dent
04-23-2013, 09:08 AM
The 2013 White Sox: We're Really Much Better at Golf!

Carolina Kenny
04-23-2013, 09:12 AM
Eh, they kind of are. The Angels have used Pujols as their DH in more than 1/2 their games already, the Tigers signed Prince Fielder to a deal that will run well past his serviceable playing days at 1B (and their current regular DH basically has the exact same contract as Adam Dunn)...

Dunn's problem is simply not doing anything of value right now.

True, however Dunn is not even close to the player that Pujols or Fielder. Also, Pujols is not playing 1b becuase he hurt his left foot.

The overall trend is for a lot of teams to use DH by commitee for roster flexability and to avoid the luxury tax.

vinny
04-23-2013, 09:38 AM
I'd hate to be a season ticket rep come August trying to convince all the new STHs to renew.

I sure won't be moving up from a pick 14 (if we buy anything at all). My son would rather play the game than watch the game. Watching so far, I'd rather play too.

Jerko
04-23-2013, 09:40 AM
The first five months of the 2012 season was the aberration. This is the 2011 team. I really think Dunn is single handedly wrecking this franchise.

I agree. When he comes up, he sucks whatever life is in the crowd out of it. But, keep running him out there every day in the 4 or 5 hole. I know the team is short-handed, but at least TRY something different. Make it look like there's an effort. Move Gillaspie to the 2 hole. Bat Keppinger lower, bat Dunn lower. Yeah, it will be like the bottom of a national league team order, but what they're doing now isn't working either.

voodoochile
04-23-2013, 09:44 AM
I have to be honest here, it's damned hard fore even an optimist like me to feel much hope for the season right now. I know it's super early but man are they struggling bad. Half watching the game while mostly watching basketball last night I just kept expecting the toons to score late and win. When I looked away briefly only to look back and see that had actually happened, all I could do was shake my head.

I didn't expect the offense to be world beaters, but I didn't expect it to be this bad either.

Pitching looks championship caliber, but hard to win scoring less than 3 a game all the time...

russ99
04-23-2013, 09:49 AM
I agree. When he comes up, he sucks whatever life is in the crowd out of it. But, keep running him out there every day in the 4 or 5 hole. I know the team is short-handed, but at least TRY something different. Make it look like there's an effort. Move Gillaspie to the 2 hole. Bat Keppinger lower, bat Dunn lower. Yeah, it will be like the bottom of a national league team order, but what they're doing now isn't working either.

Does it really matter at this point? We have three regulars hitting over .242 and 4 players with more strikeouts than hits.

Either play Dunn or not, shuffling the order is going to do little, if anything.

Jerko
04-23-2013, 09:54 AM
Does it really matter at this point? We have three regulars hitting over .242 and 4 players with more strikeouts than hits.

Either play Dunn or not, shuffling the order is going to do little, if anything.

I'd rather bench his ass too, but at least moving him down lets the fans know our manager is awake.

October26
04-23-2013, 10:02 AM
This team is really hard to watch right now.

+1

Yes they are. I have not been able to watch many games lately but read the newspaper and see that the Sox are playing poorly and losing games.

aryzner
04-23-2013, 10:34 AM
I don't know about you folks, but I'd rather watch the pitcher hit than Dunn. I can't believe that I'm kind of semi-seriously saying this, too.

MushMouth
04-23-2013, 10:35 AM
Right now, we have absolutely no room for error. One part of the club doesn't function, and we lose. The starters have done their jobs very well, as we haven't surrendered more than 5 runs in the last 8 games (and that was only once). Take out Sale's disastrous start on Saturday the 13th, and it's 8 of 10 where the starters have had good-to-great starts (Floyd's start last Monday vs. Toronto was bad, but he didn't leave us in a position that we couldn't come back from).

Starters' performances over the last eight:
Tonight - 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K (Axelrod, ND in 3-2 loss to CLE)
Sunday - 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 3 BB, 6 K (Floyd, ND in 5-3 loss to MIN)
Saturday - 7 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 9 K (Peavy, ND in 2-1 loss to MIN)
Thursday - 7 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 6 K (Sale, L in 3-1 loss to TOR)
Wednesday - 6.2 IP, 5 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 7 K (Quintana, W in 7-0 win over TOR)
Tuesday - 6 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 4 K (Axelrod, ND in 4-3 win over TOR)
Monday - 4.1 IP, 9 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 6 K (Floyd, L in 4-3 loss to TOR)
Sunday - 7 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 11 K (Peavy, W in 3-1 win over CLE)

The Friday before, Quintana went 7 innings with 1 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, and 7 K and ended up with a ND in a 1-0 loss.

Over those 9, the starter's combined ERA was 1.89. Even add in Sale's performance against Cleveland (4.1 IP, 8 H, 8 ER, 2 BB, 3 K) and it goes to 2.93.

Most any other club, with those performances, could have gone at least 7-3, if not 8-2 or even 9-1. We went 3-7. The offense doesn't produce enough to give us a comfortable lead, and then either the defense or the bullpen, or both, fails us.

It's already been a very long April.


:o:

I knew starters had been good, but that is really painful to see

ChiSoxGirl
04-23-2013, 10:46 AM
The White Sox have gift-wrapped each of the last four games for their opposition. Walks, errors, bad baserunning, you name it. As a matter of fact, a throwing error has been a big play in three of these last four losses.

Much of the focus has been on the poor offense. Understandably so. But this team is awful defensively. Of the 12 losses, at least half of them have been gift-wrapped with poor defense.

I feel this club has beaten itself more in the first three weeks of this season than it did the first five months of last year.

The start of this season feels like an extension of last September.

Hawk said the exact same thing during last night's broadcast and he's right. The piss poor defense we've been seeing, especially as of late, is really uncharacteristic of the Sox team we've known over the last couple years. If your offense is still in its winter coma, the defense needs to be alert, but it's not, thus leading to all these gift-wrapped games given to the opposition.

As for Dunn, he's epic bad and is making his 2011 batting average of .158 look stellar compared to the .106 or whatever the hell it is he's batting now. At least he was taking walks two years ago. The only walks he's taking now are back to the bench as soon as he strikes out or grounds out to the right side of the infield. YUCK!!!!

Even with all that said, this is baseball and I love it too much to quit going to games. I'm excited to be heading down to the ballpark on Sunday. The weather is supposed to cooperate (sunny and 68) and I'm looking very forward to an afternoon at the ballpark.

salty99
04-23-2013, 11:25 AM
Time to bring back camp Cora!

salty99
04-23-2013, 11:27 AM
Hawk said the exact same thing during last night's broadcast and he's right. The piss poor defense we've been seeing, especially as of late, is really uncharacteristic of the Sox team we've known over the last couple years. If your offense is still in its winter coma, the defense needs to be alert, but it's not, thus leading to all these gift-wrapped games given to the opposition.

As for Dunn, he's epic bad and is making his 2011 batting average of .158 look stellar compared to the .106 or whatever the hell it is he's batting now. At least he was taking walks two years ago. The only walks he's taking now are back to the bench as soon as he strikes out or grounds out to the right side of the infield. YUCK!!!!

Even with all that said, this is baseball and I love it too much to quit going to games. I'm excited to be heading down to the ballpark on Sunday. The weather is supposed to cooperate (sunny and 68) and I'm looking very forward to an afternoon at the ballpark.

And it's been documented that he is now swinging at around 48% of first pitches. Here is the article on Fangraphs that's worth a look: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/adam-dunns-failed-experiment/

I also love going to games and so does my son so we plan on going to most of the Sunday Family days!

wassagstdu
04-23-2013, 11:33 AM
I think Konerko could get you a busted prospect in need of a change of scenery. Plenty of teams have those guys lying around.

Wasn't that how the Sox got Konerko in the first place? Do it now! Also Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Viciedo, and Dunn for decent prospects. Maybe even Chris Sale if the return is right. He will probably be over the hill by the time the Sox contend again. In Dunn's case you have to include his salary and settle for a mediocre reliever facing complete shoulder replacement -- and pay for the surgery.

I am sure Dunn is not a clubhouse cancer, but he certainly is a benign disfiguring tumor, and the sooner it is cut out the better.

Whitesox029
04-23-2013, 11:37 AM
The Sox lost in the two Swisher trades, badly.
That's a huge understatement, considering they basically flipped Gio Gonzalez into Jeff Marquez-- a Cy Young contender for a guy who never even sniffed a major league roster spot.

wassagstdu
04-23-2013, 11:43 AM
As for Dunn, he's epic bad and is making his 2011 batting average of .158 look stellar compared to the .106 or whatever the hell it is he's batting now.

Now we read that he has identified a couple of minor technical issues that are responsible for his 1-for-31 streak. That to my mind hits the Sox problem on the sweet spot: Sox hitters don't know the difference between hitting a pitched baseball and a golf swing. For the latter, you fine tune every aspect of the swing because the ball cooperates completely. In baseball, you have to react. I thought that attitude might have come from Greg Walker, he of the gorgeous swing. Now I wonder if Hawk Harrelson spouts the same gobbledygook in the clubhouse as on the air and how much influence he has.

The Sox will get plenty of chances to work on their golf swings this fall.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2013, 12:08 PM
The White Sox have gift-wrapped each of the last four games for their opposition. Walks, errors, bad baserunning, you name it. As a matter of fact, a throwing error has been a big play in three of these last four losses.

Much of the focus has been on the poor offense. Understandably so. But this team is awful defensively. Of the 12 losses, at least half of them have been gift-wrapped with poor defense.

I feel this club has beaten itself more in the first three weeks of this season than it did the first five months of last year.

The start of this season feels like an extension of last September.

JB:

That got me thinking, counting last night the Sox are now 11-23 in their last 34 MLB games dating back to last September 19th.

Lip

Lip Man 1
04-23-2013, 12:15 PM
To all those saying Robin should bench Dunn. To be honest I don't know if he has that authority, I'd like to think he does but to bench a guy making 14 million a year, in this organization?

I just don't know if he can do that.

Lip

JB98
04-23-2013, 01:29 PM
To all those saying Robin should bench Dunn. To be honest I don't know if he has that authority, I'd like to think he does but to bench a guy making 14 million a year, in this organization?

I just don't know if he can do that.

Lip

An interesting question. I've discussed this very point with a few different people recently. How long does Robin wait to act? And would he be allowed to act given the money Dunn is making?

Guillen used to talk about how he "makes out the ****ing lineup," yet he left a .160 hitter in the 3 hole nearly all season in 2011. Maybe he was just that stupid, but you also wonder if he was acting on orders from above.

If Dunn continues to be this bad, I hope Robin does have the authority to make a change. But I don't know. I do know Uncle Jer wants a return on his investment.

shingo10
04-23-2013, 02:35 PM
Now we read that he has identified a couple of minor technical issues that are responsible for his 1-for-31 streak. That to my mind hits the Sox problem on the sweet spot: Sox hitters don't know the difference between hitting a pitched baseball and a golf swing. For the latter, you fine tune every aspect of the swing because the ball cooperates completely. In baseball, you have to react. I thought that attitude might have come from Greg Walker, he of the gorgeous swing. Now I wonder if Hawk Harrelson spouts the same gobbledygook in the clubhouse as on the air and how much influence he has.

The Sox will get plenty of chances to work on their golf swings this fall.


Are you seriously suggesting that Hawk is to blame for Dunn's failures? Or for the teams offensive failures?

shingo10
04-23-2013, 02:40 PM
An interesting question. I've discussed this very point with a few different people recently. How long does Robin wait to act? And would he be allowed to act given the money Dunn is making?

Guillen used to talk about how he "makes out the ****ing lineup," yet he left a .160 hitter in the 3 hole nearly all season in 2011. Maybe he was just that stupid, but you also wonder if he was acting on orders from above.

If Dunn continues to be this bad, I hope Robin does have the authority to make a change. But I don't know. I do know Uncle Jer wants a return on his investment.

If Robin can't do what is best for the team then this organization really is operating backwards. I guess I'd equate it to a starting QB in the NFL being benched if he wasn't performing...sometimes things need to be done for the good of the team and theoretically speaking, money shouldn't make a difference in that. Realistically I don't really know what to think about where JR's head is these days.

blandman
04-23-2013, 05:05 PM
Are you seriously suggesting that Hawk is to blame for Dunn's failures? Or for the teams offensive failures?

That's pretty ridiculous.

Our offensive failures are the GM's fault. Yeah, he didn't sign some of the problems. But the moves he made contributed. Keppinger's been brutal. Relying on Dayan and Flowers was a mistake.

Keppinger pretty much got AJ's money. How nice would AJ's line look in our lineup? He's hitting .310 with four bombs and ten rbi's.

Maybe it seemed like the right move to let AJ go...but his replacement bat (whether you consider it flowers by position or Keppinger by money) has cost this team on offense dearly.

And left field is probably the easiest position to get someone league average at for little money. Not finding someone to compete with Dayan is an absolute joke.

wassagstdu
04-24-2013, 08:13 AM
Guillen used to talk about how he "makes out the ****ing lineup," yet he left a .160 hitter in the 3 hole nearly all season in 2011. Maybe he was just that stupid, but you also wonder if he was acting on orders from above.

a. Ozzie was not stupid
b. You do the math

wassagstdu
04-24-2013, 08:15 AM
Are you seriously suggesting that Hawk is to blame for Dunn's failures? Or for the teams offensive failures?

No, of course not. But time after time we have seen players fall into this unproductive pattern. It is a culture in the organization, and I just wonder to what extent Hawk reinforces that culture.

doublem23
04-24-2013, 09:22 AM
Guillen used to talk about how he "makes out the ****ing lineup," yet he left a .160 hitter in the 3 hole nearly all season in 2011. Maybe he was just that stupid, but you also wonder if he was acting on orders from above.


It's hard to read into much of what Ozzie was up to in 2011, as at best, the only way to describe what he was doing was just quitting on the team.