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View Full Version : *Official* 4.20 White Sox Avoid Loss Through 9... Postgame Thread


BRDSR
04-20-2013, 06:19 PM
...but lose in the 10th. Squander great outing by Jake.

Can't believe I'm starting this post game thread...apathy abounds among White Sox faithful.

CoopaLoop
04-20-2013, 06:20 PM
Sox are banished from my television for a few days. Excruciating.

shingo10
04-20-2013, 06:43 PM
This is not a major league roster on offense. It is embarrassing and a total slap in the face to everyone who supports this team year after year.

They knew damn well after last season about the shortcomings of this team on offense and did NOTHING to change it. They added zero depth even though it was clear that was an area we were lacking in. Don't know what the hell Hahn was doing.

Boneheaded plays on defense are becoming the norm and that is surprising to me but when maybe they are feeling more pressure knowing that if they allow a run to cross home plate its probably a loss.


And we suck in extra innings.

delben91
04-20-2013, 06:48 PM
This is not a major league roster on offense. It is embarrassing and a total slap in the face to everyone who supports this team year after year.

They knew damn well after last season about the shortcomings of this team on offense and did NOTHING to change it. They added zero depth even though it was clear that was an area we were lacking in. Don't know what the hell Hahn was doing.

Boneheaded plays on defense are becoming the norm and that is surprising to me but when maybe they are feeling more pressure knowing that if they allow a run to cross home plate its probably a loss.


And we suck in extra innings.

A couple of Hahn's moves have actually been amongst the few bright spots this year, specifically Gillaspie and Lindstrom.

I get the argument he should've done more, but if he had his hands tied by the payroll gods he's done well in some of the moves at the edges.

You can cite Keppinger as a rebuttal but I don't think anyone figured he'd be this atrocious.

Noneck
04-20-2013, 06:49 PM
This is not a major league roster on offense. It is embarrassing and a total slap in the face to everyone who supports this team year after year.

They knew damn well after last season about the shortcomings of this team on offense and did NOTHING to change it. They added zero depth even though it was clear that was an area we were lacking in. Don't know what the hell Hahn was doing.



I agree and disagree. Keppinger seemed like the right move at the time. Regarding depth, well that involved resources which were probably not provided to Hahn. I guess he could have done more dumpster diving but that would have probably been fruitless anyway.

Soxman219
04-20-2013, 06:54 PM
We are lucky this is a horrible division. The Royals are in first place at 8-7. If the Sox can get one good week, they can be in first place! Oh wait...that requires scoring, which the Sox can't do.:mad:

The Immigrant
04-20-2013, 06:59 PM
That was a wasted afternoon. I thought about going down to the ballpark with the kids tomorrow, but after today's performance I have zero motivation to do that.

Oh, and if Adam Dunn is batting cleanup tomorrow I will seriously stop watching altogether.

soltrain21
04-20-2013, 07:11 PM
I've seen about 12 innings total this year, six of them today. It may stay that way a while.

kruzer31
04-20-2013, 07:21 PM
Just a bad team with quite possibly the worst hitter in the history of baseball. Get some stones and bench this guy

Boondock Saint
04-20-2013, 07:22 PM
I'm not gonna spend much time watching this team this year. It's just not fun to watch guys flailing for 20 run HR's like it's little league.

gobears1987
04-20-2013, 07:32 PM
I didn't purchase MLB.tv this season due to a lack of time to watch baseball. I was planning on enjoying a game that was broadcast over the satellite channels we get in Israel.

So much for the enjoyment of the game.

Brian26
04-20-2013, 07:37 PM
How bad was that Alexei Ramirez play in the 10th? Farmer said Alexei would have had the runner at third by 20 feet.

WhiteSox5187
04-20-2013, 07:38 PM
How bad was that Alexei Ramirez play in the 10th? Farmer said Alexei would have had the runner at third by 20 feet.

It wasn't a great throw but it is the sort of throw that Paulie is able to scoop up. I also seem to recall that he had to move so throwing to third wasn't much of an option.

GlassSox
04-20-2013, 07:41 PM
Just a bad team with quite possibly the worst hitter in the history of baseball. Get some stones and bench this guy

yes bench him

guillensdisciple
04-20-2013, 07:45 PM
We suck. Fire Adam Dunn. That is all.

shingo10
04-20-2013, 07:49 PM
I agree and disagree. Keppinger seemed like the right move at the time. Regarding depth, well that involved resources which were probably not provided to Hahn. I guess he could have done more dumpster diving but that would have probably been fruitless anyway.


You're right that it would be have dumpster diving but it seems like other teams are much better at it than we are.

I can't ever recall being this upset so early in the year. Even the horrific start of '11 was more bearable to me because I really felt like we had tried to improve the team in the offseason and it just wasn't working. This feels like no one really gives a damn.

GlassSox
04-20-2013, 07:50 PM
We suck. Fire Adam Dunn. That is all.

Amen over and out

guillensdisciple
04-20-2013, 07:53 PM
The reason why this team sucks is the same reason that saying exists, the one that sais you're an idiot for repeating the thing that didn't work for you the firs time. This sox team has tried this and has finished as well as it could last year. That's it; there is no magical potion or addition that would have taken this team into amazing levels. Nope, we did nothing, tried the same formula and hoped I would work. This team will do horribly, and everything will suffer. The white sox have no farm system and an aging club. A dark time in baseball might be ahead of us.

Brian26
04-20-2013, 08:50 PM
It wasn't a great throw but it is the sort of throw that Paulie is able to scoop up. I also seem to recall that he had to move so throwing to third wasn't much of an option.

Did Alexei have a play at third though? There was a runner on second at the time.

StillMissOzzie
04-20-2013, 08:52 PM
You're right that it would be have dumpster diving but it seems like other teams are much better at it than we are.

I can't ever recall being this upset so early in the year. Even the horrific start of '11 was more bearable to me because I really felt like we had tried to improve the team in the offseason and it just wasn't working. This feels like no one really gives a damn.

Well, there was one year not that long ago where the Sox were out of it by Memorial Day. I am in no mood to look it up to revive those old memories.

The pitching has been pretty solid, but the anemic offense has been magnified by the pathetic defense so far. A home run in the first inning, and NOTHING the rest of the way? Pathetic.

SMO
:gulp:

DumpJerry
04-20-2013, 09:03 PM
Signature update time.


I did this before I saw similar thoughts in this thread.

It worked when I said Fire Lovie. Adam better contact a moving van company......

amsteel
04-20-2013, 09:06 PM
Dunn's performance has been unacceptable for 80% of the time he's been here, at some point you have to start blaming the management for insisting to keep playing him.

The 2012 Sox over performed, this team is playing to its (low) potential thus far.
It's frustrating, but no one can say they didn't see it coming. Throw in a few injuries and this is a bad team.

GlassSox
04-20-2013, 09:12 PM
Dunn's performance has been unacceptable for 80% of the time he's been here, at some point you have to start blaming the management for insisting to keep playing him.

The 2012 Sox over performed, this team is playing to its (low) potential thus far.
It's frustrating, but no one can say they didn't see it coming. Throw in a few injuries and this is a bad team.

Amen.

Golden Sox
04-20-2013, 09:21 PM
With Adam Done and Keppinger not hitting, and factor in the injuries to Beckham and the Tank, its easy to see why this team is struggling offensively.
Hahn said today now is not the time to panic. I wish I could agree with him. The team has lost 2 games in the last week because of a lack of hitting. We have wasted 2 good pitching outings by Quintana and Peavy. I hope something is done and like quickly to help this offense.

WhiteSox5187
04-20-2013, 09:22 PM
Did Alexei have a play at third though? There was a runner on second at the time.

It is hard to tell because I was watching the game on TV.

tstrike2000
04-20-2013, 09:47 PM
Yes, it's April, but .098 isn't gonna work.

wassagstdu
04-20-2013, 09:48 PM
Dunn's performance has been unacceptable for 80% of the time he's been here, at some point you have to start blaming the management for insisting to keep playing him.

You mean other than the incessant ranting about Ozzie's insistence on playing him in 2011 -- which was evidence Ozzie had quit on the team? And by the way I am sure glad we have new management that emphasizes fundamentals during spring training.

Lip Man 1
04-20-2013, 09:50 PM
We've seen Ramirez **** up at key times before. He's not going to change just like he refuses to bunt.

Crying shame to keep wasting good pitching performances because the offense is absolute dog****. 6th time in the last 10 games three runs or less.

Even more embarrassing they couldn't solve a pitcher with a sky-high ERA.

13 more strikeouts today.

White Sox baseball...a swing...and a miss!

Lip

WhiteSox5187
04-20-2013, 09:55 PM
We've seen Ramirez **** up at key times before. He's not going to change just like he refuses to bunt.

Crying shame to keep wasting good pitching performances because the offense is absolute dog****. 6th time in the last 10 games three runs or less.

Even more embarrassing they couldn't solve a pitcher with a sky-high ERA.

13 more strikeouts today.

White Sox baseball...a swing...and a miss!

Lip

I don't know if I would say throwing over to first to get the second out is a **** up. I thought it was a good throw that a good first baseman makes.

Zakath
04-20-2013, 10:01 PM
Dunn hasn't had a hit since April 11 and is in a 0-for-29 slump. 6 hits and 23 K's on the season so far.

Tragg
04-20-2013, 10:25 PM
It's amazing that there isn't single major league outfielder in this organization after the starting 3....and the only real prospects, and there aren't many, are years away.
They certainly could have added more depth to this major league team over the winter.
Keppinger looks bad, and should improve, but he's never been particularly good .

Lip Man 1
04-20-2013, 10:28 PM
WhiteSox 5187:

To me it looked like Ramirez nonchalanted it. I agree that a good glove man probably would have had it. Don't know how much Keppinger has played first though.

Tragg:

Bench looks absolutely abysmal. Not even close to major league caliber. As you said, like last year there were some released guys / possible options out there. Sox said no thanks. OK...they have to live with it.


Lip

WhiteSox5187
04-20-2013, 10:32 PM
WhiteSox 5187:

To me it looked like Ramirez nonchalanted it. I agree that a good glove man probably would have had it. Don't know how much Keppinger has played first though.

Lip

He non-chalanted it because it was a non-chalant play. Keppinger has 229 innings played at first btw.

SoxSpeed22
04-20-2013, 10:42 PM
So the easily movable object wins out over the very resistible force. I'm not going to hold it against a team that just stinks. At least the pitchers will have plenty of free steak dinners this season. :(:

billyvsox
04-20-2013, 11:07 PM
It's amazing that there isn't single major league outfielder in this organization after the starting 3....and the only real prospects, and there aren't many, are years away.
They certainly could have added more depth to this major league team over the winter.
Keppinger looks bad, and should improve, but he's never been particularly good .

Maybe so, but I would rather see Jared Mitchelll or Keenan Walker go 0-4 then eVer watch Adam Dunn anymore

Noneck
04-20-2013, 11:21 PM
Dunn hasn't had a hit since April 11 and is in a 0-for-29 slump. 6 hits and 23 K's on the season so far.


Dont forget about the 3 walks hes had so far this year.

Lip Man 1
04-20-2013, 11:51 PM
This and That:

Sox are hitting an A.L. low of .173 batting average with runners in scoring position, which includes an 0-for-2 Saturday.

Dunn is now hitting .098 with 23 strikeouts in 63 at-bats. He has one hit in his last 37 at-bats.

Jeff Keppinger's hitting .159 which includes a current 0-for-21 stretch after an 0-for-16 earlier in the season.

Five players now on the DL, three of them Dayan, Beckham and John Danks are considered important members of the team.

Counting a rehab assignment, they are saying Dayan could be out about three weeks.

Postgame quotes:

"I think (Dunn's) frustrated, anybody would be. This is not the time for guys to start thinking about other things. Just try to do things to help your team win instead of thinking about little individual stuff."--Robin Ventura.

"We live and die with the home run and we just haven't hit many of them here of late. In the games we have won we won it with the long ball."-- Jake Peavy

(And therein lies the problem doesn't it Jake???)

Also Hahn was quoted as saying that there is a temptation to start
exploring other options, but with just about 10 percent of the season played, you can't draw any conclusions about where things sit.

He said he'd prefer to wait about six to eight weeks before drawing any seasonal type conclusions about players.

He was asked about how long is to long to wait and said that it's more of an art (guess?) than a science but admitted that "there does come a point where, for the mix of the ballclub or for the effectiveness of the ballclub, you might have to make some decisions or changes before getting all the way up to what is a sizable enough sample to feel it's scientifically merited."

I take from that, that Hahn would prefer to wait as long as possible but if he feels in his gut the season is heading south, he's not unwilling to start making moves.

Lip

slavko
04-21-2013, 12:33 AM
I suppose it's safe to say that we can't blame Greg Walker. In fact, we owe him an apology, myself included. We could be headed for last place and for a good long time. Too bad, the pitching could be a staff on a pretty good ball team. I wouldn't mind suffering with some kids, if there were any kids. Some of what's here right now is embarrassing. I mean you Adam. No OBP argument to fall back on anymore.

When does the truck start backing up? Will Hahn have the guts? The authority? I eagerly await the answer. Well, not that eagerly, these guys are hard to watch. Any keepers here? I can't honestly name one position player who's a keeper. Possibly the same on the mound. If I said Quintana would you call me crazy?

doublem23
04-21-2013, 08:20 AM
13 more strikeouts today.

White Sox baseball...a swing...and a miss!


Strikeouts have been the inevitable result of baseball still coming down from the steroid era; pitchers are as good as they were in the '90s but hitters have lagged far behind now. The Sox have 140 total strikeouts on the season, which isn't anywhere close to the AL league league. They're not even in the top 4 in the AL.

doublem23
04-21-2013, 08:22 AM
I suppose it's safe to say that we can't blame Greg Walker. In fact, we owe him an apology, myself included.

**** that, Walk sucks, his team in Atlanta has much more offensive talent than these Sox, but they're just as poor. More strikeouts, they've just hit more HR. But it's the same offensive philosophy.

Chez
04-21-2013, 08:30 AM
Words I never thought I would type: "We miss Beckham's bat." That's how bad it has gotten.

Lip Man 1
04-21-2013, 10:21 AM
Double:

As you posted a few weeks ago the Sox are striking out more often than anybody else with men on base...when you can't even put the ball in play with guys on you rob yourself of the other team even making an error or a bad throw.

And I think Daver would argue with you on the steroids point. He contends that pitchers juiced just as much as hitters.

Lip

Zakath
04-21-2013, 10:21 AM
Strikeouts have been the inevitable result of baseball still coming down from the steroid era; pitchers are as good as they were in the '90s but hitters have lagged far behind now. The Sox have 140 total strikeouts on the season, which isn't anywhere close to the AL league league. They're not even in the top 4 in the AL.

As we've discussed before, strikeouts aren't as much how many as when. We're about middle of the pack in K's in the majors with runners on. Interesting we're last in walks with runners on, and we also have the lowest ground ball to fly ball ratio by any team in the majors by a ton when runners are on (the average is 0.92, the Sox are at 0.52; no other team is lower than 0.69), which means when we get guys on, almost everyone's swinging for the fences.

Zakath
04-21-2013, 10:23 AM
Double:

As you posted a few weeks ago the Sox are striking out more often than anybody else with men on base...when you can't even put the ball in play with guys on you rob yourself of the other team even making an error or a bad throw.


Actually, we're not. The Sox have 52 K when there are runners on, which is well behind Detroit's 66.

guillensdisciple
04-21-2013, 10:59 AM
Actually, we're not. The Sox have 52 K when there are runners on, which is well behind Detroit's 66.

Well that's good, we have something.

Tragg
04-21-2013, 11:14 AM
When does the truck start backing up? Will Hahn have the guts?

What's going to take the guts is not only backing up the truck, but taking A and AA players in return. Teams aren't giving up their developed top prospects. Yo have to take chances on undeveloped talent if you want to really rebuild a farm system.
BTW, Escobar whom we sent to the Twins is probably better than any infielder we have except for Konerko and Alexei.

SoxSpeed22
04-21-2013, 11:30 AM
I don't have much of a problem with taking high-upside talent, but I have zero confidence in the minor league coaches to be able to properly develop those guys. Crede might have been the last position player they were somewhat successful with.

doublem23
04-21-2013, 11:48 AM
As we've discussed before, strikeouts aren't as much how many as when. We're about middle of the pack in K's in the majors with runners on. Interesting we're last in walks with runners on, and we also have the lowest ground ball to fly ball ratio by any team in the majors by a ton when runners are on (the average is 0.92, the Sox are at 0.52; no other team is lower than 0.69), which means when we get guys on, almost everyone's swinging for the fences.

See and that's just not correct. 90+% outs are all the same, whether they come via strikeout, groundout, flyout, whatever.

The Sox OBP is .273. Dead last in the AL. 40 points off the league average. There's no better predictor of offensive success than On Base Percentage.

doublem23
04-21-2013, 11:49 AM
BTW, Escobar whom we sent to the Twins is probably better than any infielder we have except for Konerko and Alexei.

:rolling:

Good one. :thumbsup:

Tragg
04-21-2013, 12:08 PM
:rolling:

Good one. :thumbsup:

Heck, we're playing with nothing but utility infielders right now, except for Konerko and Alexei. Gillespie may be more than that - we'll see.

And after one injury, it's utility outfielders time too.

I don't have much of a problem with taking high-upside talent, but I have zero confidence in the minor league coaches to be able to properly develop those guys. Crede might have been the last position player they were somewhat successful with.
Peavy is the one player we have who could really bring some young talent. Rios, could bring in some too, especially if he's hot at the deadline. But the trades have to be executed correctly, for a change.

doublem23
04-21-2013, 12:12 PM
Heck, we're playing with nothing but utility infielders right now, except for Konerko and Alexei. Gillespie may be more than that - we'll see.

And after one injury, it's utility outfielders time too.

All right, so now we're up to 3/4 of the infield and I'm going to assume Keppinger, over 162 games and not 16, will play better than Escobar. So we've established he's no more than a utility infielder on this roster, as well. Super duper.

This is as ridiculous as the people who think the Sox should be bringing back Brent Lillibridge. What is it about people getting attached to bad players?

Zakath
04-21-2013, 01:13 PM
See and that's just not correct. 90+% outs are all the same, whether they come via strikeout, groundout, flyout, whatever.


It's that 10% that makes the difference. Most outs are the same, especially all outs when there's no one on. You can have productive outs when runners are on, but it's damn near impossible to have a productive strikeout. That's why strikeouts when, for instance, you have a runner on 2nd and no out, are more damaging than the same strikeout with 2 outs and no one on.

Dunn's 2-for-19 with 8 K's when we have RISP. Those 8 K's are much more damaging than the other 15, because they either didn't move guys over or didn't bring them in.

Tragg
04-21-2013, 02:00 PM
The Sox OBP is .273. Dead last in the AL. 40 points off the league average. There's no better predictor of offensive success than On Base Percentage.

That's a stunning statistic really.
But I guess it's a matter of a bad OBP team to begin with having a bad year.

Frater Perdurabo
04-21-2013, 02:05 PM
That's a stunning statistic really.
But I guess it's a matter of a bad OBP team to begin with having a bad year.

This is largely a function of the two historically high-OBP players on the roster (Dunn and Keppinger) and one expected to walk a lot (Flowers) failing to walk.

shingo10
04-21-2013, 02:33 PM
All right, so now we're up to 3/4 of the infield and I'm going to assume Keppinger, over 162 games and not 16, will play better than Escobar. So we've established he's no more than a utility infielder on this roster, as well. Super duper.

This is as ridiculous as the people who think the Sox should be bringing back Brent Lillibridge. What is it about people getting attached to bad players?

You are right, it is much easier to be cynical about every single player as that way you have a better chance of being right. No one was saying Escobar or Gillespie is Jeter. They are saying they might develop into something serviceable.

I'm sure Uribe and Crede were "bad" players too...until they played a huge part in us winning the WS in 05.

Tragg
04-21-2013, 02:40 PM
This is largely a function of the two historically high-OBP players on the roster (Dunn and Keppinger) and one expected to walk a lot (Flowers) failing to walk.

Keppinger is not a historically high OBP ballplayer. It's okay, but nothing special. He had a career year last year.
Dunn hasn't had a good obp since before he joined the Sox.
I don't think we stacked up that well to start with, and now we're obviously off the charts bad.

All right, so now we're up to 3/4 of the infield and I'm going to assume Keppinger, over 162 games and not 16, will play better than Escobar. So we've established he's no more than a utility infielder on this roster, as well. Super duper.

This is as ridiculous as the people who think the Sox should be bringing back Brent Lillibridge. What is it about people getting attached to bad players?
I started off by saying he EXCEPT for Konerko and Alexei. It's not that ridiculous

Frater Perdurabo
04-21-2013, 02:48 PM
Keppinger is not a historically high OBP ballplayer. It's okay, but nothing special. He had a career year last year.
Dunn hasn't had a good obp since before he joined the Sox.
I don't think we stacked up that well to start with, and now we're obviously off the charts bad.


I started off by saying he EXCEPT for Konerko and Alexei. So who are we talking about - Keppinger (a mediocre ballplayer most years), Gillespie (who knows), and a bunch of utility players. Hardly ridiculous

I should have used more precise language. Neither Keppinger nor Dunn are career MLB leaders in OBP. But their career histories showed they put up decent OBPs - until they came here.

Tragg
04-21-2013, 03:01 PM
But their career histories showed they put up decent OBPs - until they came here.
Yep
Keppinger will probably end up okay. Even today he's making the "productive out", a reasonable approach when in a slump.
Dunn, though....

doublem23
04-21-2013, 03:17 PM
I started off by saying he EXCEPT for Konerko and Alexei. It's not that ridiculous

I think it's pretty clear that even Beckham, as disappointing as he's been in his career, is a CLEARLY superior player than Escobar. Escobar sucks.

The teams that are that worried about their utility infielders are the teams that are winning 95-100 games. The Sox do not have that kind of luxury.