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Konerko05
04-15-2013, 02:42 AM
Viciedo 0 BB/13 SO
Dunn 2 BB/15 SO
Flowers 2 BB/15 SO
De Aza 2 BB/11 SO

Combined 6 BB/54 SO

That is 4/9 of our lineup. I understand they are all slumping right now so the numbers are a little skewed, but it's scary they all have the ability to be this bad and it happens to all four at the same exact time.

Gillaspie, Konerko, Rios, and Keppinger are all going to have to hit at least .300 for this offense to be formidable.

Golden Sox
04-15-2013, 08:52 AM
1) Batting Dunn in the cleanup spot is just crazy. I realize the White Sox are stuck with him through 2014, but he has no business batting 4th on this team. Move him down in the lineup somewhere.
2) The Tank isn't hitting his weight. If this continues with this lack of hitting, demote him to the Minors and bring up Mitchell or some other outfielder.

Lip Man 1
04-15-2013, 12:50 PM
Sox have drawn the fewest walks in the majors to this point of the season.

Lip

dickallen15
04-15-2013, 01:08 PM
Sox have drawn the fewest walks in the majors to this point of the season.

Lip
Fire Greg Walker.

34 Inch Stick
04-15-2013, 01:14 PM
All of those numbers were foreseeable. I don't expect them to get much better

pythons007
04-15-2013, 02:14 PM
Yeah, for the past couple of years there isn't anyone on this team that really gets on base regularly.

kobo
04-15-2013, 02:26 PM
Sox have drawn the fewest walks in the majors to this point of the season.

Lip
I saw a few tweets yesterday that said Joey Votto has more walks (18) than the White Sox (15). Pathetic.

All of those numbers were foreseeable. I don't expect them to get much better
Exactly. We all knew that Viciedo, Dunn and Flowers were going to strike out in bunches and barely draw walks. This is what happens when your organization wants sluggers and not hitters.

TDog
04-15-2013, 04:42 PM
Sox have drawn the fewest walks in the majors to this point of the season.

Lip

Part of it has been the pitching they have faced. I believe De Aza and Dunn aren't walking because pitchers are throwing strikes to them and working not to walk them. Dunn may be getting challenged more because he has Konerko hitting behind him and Konerko is a more feared hitter. Protecting a hitter in your lineup with a strong hitter behind him means you don't want pitchers to pitch around him. You want pitchers to give him pitches he can hit. If Dunn were batting eighth, he would be walking more. Dunn, in a strange way, still provides protection for Rios that keeps pitchers pitching to him because pitchers would rather face Dunn without Rios on base.

With Flowers and Viciedo, pitchers don't seem to need to throw strikes to get them to strike out. Both need more plate discipline.

I expected more from Viciedo, but if he doesn't improve, he may be replaced. Flowers really can't be replaced with an upgrade, short of a deal I don't see coming down. Dunn won't be replaced, although he should be. De Aza is a good leadoff man and centerfielder. If he gets hot offensively, pitchers will give him less to hit and he will walk more.

The lack of hitting is more of a concern than the lack of walking, but the two elements are intertwined.

TaylorStSox
04-15-2013, 06:30 PM
I saw a few tweets yesterday that said Joey Votto has more walks (18) than the White Sox (15). Pathetic.


Exactly. We all knew that Viciedo, Dunn and Flowers were going to strike out in bunches and barely draw walks. This is what happens when your organization wants sluggers and not hitters.

Dunn and Flowers are supposed to "barely draw walks?" Did I read that right? ***?

RKMeibalane
04-15-2013, 07:00 PM
2) The Tank isn't hitting his weight. If this continues with this lack of hitting, demote him to the Minors and bring up Mitchell or some other outfielder.

Does anyone else think the Tank nickname should be dropped for the time being? If Viciedo doesn't start hitting, I'm going to start calling Blank. The Tank was actually Frank's nickname until the night that Robin hit the walk-off grandslam against Gossage. That was the game in which Hawk dubbed him the Big Hurt, and the moniker stuck.

In all seriousness, I don't know if sending Viciedo back to Charlotte will solve anything. Remember, he's already been there, and whatever he may have learned while playing at Triple-A, it wasn't enough to fix the holes in his swing, or improve his mental approach to hitting. Who's the hitting instructor in Charlotte now? Is it someone who knows Viciedo and can help him refine his outlook at the plate? If not, it's probably best to keep him in Chicago, in spite of how poorly he's played. He's not going to help the team by playing elsewhere, and the Sox have no one to replace him.

WhiteSox5187
04-15-2013, 07:42 PM
Dunn and Flowers are supposed to "barely draw walks?" Did I read that right? ***?

Flowers isn't likely to draw many walks. Dunn will likely walk half as often as he strikes out.

kobo
04-15-2013, 08:02 PM
Dunn and Flowers are supposed to "barely draw walks?" Did I read that right? ***?
Should I edit it to say Flowers and Viciedo will barely draw walks?

TaylorStSox
04-15-2013, 08:17 PM
Should I edit it to say Flowers and Viciedo will barely draw walks?

Considering Dunn leads the league in walks for like, the last decade and Flowers was an OBP machine in the minors, you might want to reconsider.

Also, yeah, let's send Viciedo down after 2 weeks. Some of these posts are ridiculous.

WhiteSox5187
04-15-2013, 09:27 PM
Considering Dunn leads the league in walks for like, the last decade and Flowers was an OBP machine in the minors, you might want to reconsider.

Also, yeah, let's send Viciedo down after 2 weeks. Some of these posts are ridiculous.

Flowers certainly doesn't appear to be an OBP machine in the majors so far.

blandman
04-15-2013, 09:44 PM
I hope that most people are realizing not that Viciedo and Flowers won't hit for average or draw walks, but instead that players that don't hit for average or draw walks have no place in a major league lineup because they are black holes.

TaylorStSox
04-15-2013, 09:47 PM
Flowers certainly doesn't appear to be an OBP machine in the majors so far.
I'll wait until he has consistent AB's to judge.

RKMeibalane
04-15-2013, 10:11 PM
I hope that most people are realizing not that Viciedo and Flowers won't hit for average or draw walks, but instead that players that don't hit for average or draw walks have no place in a major league lineup because they are black holes.

That still doesn't answer the question of who replaces them if they're sent back to Charlotte or traded. That's the problem.

blandman
04-15-2013, 11:40 PM
That still doesn't answer the question of who replaces them if they're sent back to Charlotte or traded. That's the problem.

That's a problem that could have been addressed in the off-season and wasn't. And the team said it would be fine and these guys were gonna be stars. And everyone bought it. That's the problem. No one is looking passed what the team says. And at the end of the year, when everyone looks back, the team will say they didn't expect this. And people will believe it. Because they bought in before. So the cycle of misinformation continues.

Meanwhile, there isn't another organization that would touch either of these guys. Not now, not before the season.

LITTLE NELL
04-16-2013, 07:06 AM
Our offense stinks but could be worse, check out the Rays stats at ESPN baseball.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/year/2013/seasontype/2/league/al

Golden Sox
04-16-2013, 09:26 AM
If Dunn continues to stink up the team the rest of the year, I just can't help but wonder. Will the White Sox eat the last year of his contract in 2014? Rather than just be subjected to another year of him, wouldn't it just be better to release him and try to go on to bigger and better things without him? I couldn't imagine any team trading for him and picking up his contract. If this continues the rest of the year, I could definitely see 2013 being the last year for Dunn in the major leagues. I remember when Dunn was with Washington and was going to be a free agent, the GM of Toronto was asked if the Blue Jays were interested in signing Dunn. He said he had absolutely no interest in him at all because amongst other things Dunn has not done one thing to improve himself as a player in all of the years he's been playing. The GM was forced to apologize after that hit the papers. But Toronto didn't try to sign Dunn, instead the White Sox did, unfortunately.

Jerko
04-16-2013, 09:31 AM
I think the last 2 times Dunn scored, he got on via a walk and a HBP. Otherwise, pretty useless obviously.

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 11:18 AM
That's a problem that could have been addressed in the off-season and wasn't. And the team said it would be fine and these guys were gonna be stars. And everyone bought it. That's the problem. No one is looking passed what the team says. And at the end of the year, when everyone looks back, the team will say they didn't expect this. And people will believe it. Because they bought in before. So the cycle of misinformation continues.

I don't know of anyone who believes Viciedo or Flowers will be a star.

blandman
04-16-2013, 12:31 PM
I don't know of anyone who believes Viciedo or Flowers will be a star.

:o:

There's a ton here, and the organization has said so publicly.

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 12:35 PM
:o:

There's a ton here, and the organization has said so publicly.

Well, I don't pay much attention to the Sox organization's press releases or interviews, as most of what they share with the public is meaningless fluff. Reinsdorf won't allow anyone to be candid: we learned that lesson after Hawk's umpire rant last season.

As for what I think, I don't believe that either Viciedo or Flowers is anything special, but I do think they deserve more time to figure things out at the Major League level. As bad as they've been, there are no capable replacements available, and as the Sox have invested more than thirteen million dollars in the Blank, it's better to try and get something out of that investment, rather than jettisoning Viciedo and eating the cost of his salary.