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DumpJerry
04-14-2013, 10:24 PM
Awesome movie. Just awesome.

chicagowhitesox1
04-14-2013, 10:36 PM
Decent movie and it's alot better than the Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb movie but like both of those Hollywood went a little to far with being to dramatic. Then again I suppose you have to so they can sell the movie.

TDog
04-15-2013, 12:16 AM
Decent movie and it's alot better than the Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb movie but like both of those Hollywood went a little to far with being to dramatic. Then again I suppose you have to so they can sell the movie.

I haven't seen it, hoping to see it soon. But the criticism I've heard from more than one source is that the movie wasn't as dramatic as the reality. Even The Sporting news came out editorially against Jackie Robinson.

If it was overdramatized, it was done so for reasons different thatn other sports movies because the intent was to drive home the contribution that Jackie Robinson and a few others made to America. which really cam't be exaggerated. Robinson's 10-year career, at least the initial years of it, probably took at least 10 years off his life.

I woudl hope it's a darn good movie, because the story is importnat enough that it nees to be. When I was in college in the mid-1970s, I gave a speech about racial prejudice in major league baseball. The graduate assisting who graded it found it hard to believe that baseball was all white before 1947. There are baseball fans today who don't understand why No. 42 is on the wall of all the major league ballparks.

spawn
04-15-2013, 07:54 AM
I saw it Saturday. If you knew little or nothing about Jackie Robinson, you would love this movie. I took a date to see it, and she really liked it. My problem with it is I feel like they only scratched the surface of what he endured, and it only captured his time with the Montreal team and his rookie season in the bigs. He had to deal with that for two years without retaliation, and it probably shortened his career. That said, what pleasantly surprised me was the theater I was at was packed, and the attendees were mostly young white kids. And even if the movie didn't go far enough with the treatment he received, at least you did get a glimpse and feel for it. And i'm glad they touched on his being court martialed while in the army, something i don't think a lot of people know. Definitely worth the price of admission.

doublem23
04-15-2013, 07:55 AM
Decent movie and it's alot better than the Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb movie but like both of those Hollywood went a little to far with being to dramatic. Then again I suppose you have to so they can sell the movie.

I'm not sure what you mean, to fit the saga of Jackie Robinson's first season into a 2-hour movie, they had to bleach a ton of stuff out. I think they did a good job of condensing the story for everyone to be able to see and digest. But to tell the truth about what he faced it would probably take an epic that would make The Godfather look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

My only criticism is that the movie is extremely formulaic, but that's true for a lot of good sports movies. Protagonist hero is presented, faces external struggle and challenges, internalizes these forces and is unsure if he can go on, is guided by older, wiser friend, overcomes adversity and wins everyone's respect by end. You can take the script to the bank every. Single. Time. I got the feeling that they want you to think that by October 1947, everyone has accepted Jackie Robinson and the idea of African Americans playing "white" baseball, which isn't true at all.

That said, if you like baseball, you will like this movie, if for nothing else than the sweet, sweet retro uniforms.

:cool:

spawn
04-15-2013, 07:58 AM
That said, if you like baseball, you will like this movie, if for nothing else than the sweet, sweet retro uniforms.

:cool:
Made me want to buy a retro Brooklyn Dodgers jersey!

doublem23
04-15-2013, 08:02 AM
Made me want to buy a retro Brooklyn Dodgers jersey!

They all looked great. Alan Tudyk was probably the best dressed horrible racist ******* in the last 50 years. :cool:

Golden Sox
04-15-2013, 08:03 AM
I'm surprised that JR hasn't been interviewed more about the movie. I read where he saw the movie and he thought that Harrison Ford did a good job playing the role of Branch Rickey. Other than that, nothing else was said about Jackie Robinson. I'm sure he could add alot on the subject because JR was at the first game Jackie Robinson played for the Dodgers in 1947 at Ebbets Field. JR grew up in Brooklyn and was a die hard Brooklyn Dodgers fan. I would imagine that JR is one of the few people still around who was at that first game that Robinson played in.

RKMeibalane
04-15-2013, 08:04 AM
Made me want to buy a retro Brooklyn Dodgers jersey!

And a cap. I've always wanted to buy one, as the "B" would also be a nice homage to my undergraduate years.

spawn
04-15-2013, 10:12 AM
And a cap. I've always wanted to buy one, as the "B" would also be a nice homage to my undergraduate years.

I've got the cap.

spawn
04-15-2013, 10:13 AM
They all looked great. Alan Tudyk was probably the best dressed horrible racist ******* in the last 50 years. :cool:

LOL...yeah he was! :redneck

spawn
04-15-2013, 10:14 AM
I'm surprised that JR hasn't been interviewed more about the movie. I read where he saw the movie and he thought that Harrison Ford did a good job playing the role of Branch Rickey. Other than that, nothing else was said about Jackie Robinson. I'm sure he could add alot on the subject because JR was at the first game Jackie Robinson played for the Dodgers in 1947 at Ebbets Field. JR grew up in Brooklyn and was a die hard Brooklyn Dodgers fan. I would imagine that JR is one of the few people still around who was at that first game that Robinson played in.

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/dan-hayes/reinsdorf-impressed-jackie-robinson-movie-42

jdm2662
04-15-2013, 11:28 AM
I saw it Saturday. If you knew little or nothing about Jackie Robinson, you would love this movie. I took a date to see it, and she really liked it. My problem with it is I feel like they only scratched the surface of what he endured, and it only captured his time with the Montreal team and his rookie season in the bigs. He had to deal with that for two years without retaliation, and it probably shortened his career. That said, what pleasantly surprised me was the theater I was at was packed, and the attendees were mostly young white kids. And even if the movie didn't go far enough with the treatment he received, at least you did get a glimpse and feel for it. And i'm glad they touched on his being court martialed while in the army, something i don't think a lot of people know. Definitely worth the price of admission.

When I went to KC, the Negro League Museum was quite crowded and about 95% of the crowd were young white families. It is a must see for any baseball fan. It was by far the best part of the trip, other than awesome BBQ and winning lots of money at the casino...

I probably will see this eventually. I don't have the luxury of going to the movies as I please anymore. I did catch John Goodman's the Babe last night. I was reminded why Bill Jauss went ape **** on how terrible it was. He even hated the popcorn...

chicagowhitesox1
04-15-2013, 02:39 PM
I think the movie is great for teaching younger fans about what Robinson went through but I find hard to believe any kid over 7 wouldn't know who Jackie Robinson is. I know Jackie Robinson went through alot and I respect him for his courage but the movie doesn't tell the whole story on him and thats what I was hoping for.

spawn
04-15-2013, 02:58 PM
I think the movie is great for teaching younger fans about what Robinson went through but I find hard to believe any kid over 7 wouldn't know who Jackie Robinson is. I know Jackie Robinson went through alot and I respect him for his courage but the movie doesn't tell the whole story on him and thats what I was hoping for.

I don't know why you are surprised by that. I'm sure there are teenagers that don't know who he is, or even realize blacks weren't allowed to play once the gentlemen's agreement banning blacks from playing went into effect.

And no, the movie doesn't tell the whole story, and there's no way you could fit the whole story in a two hour movie. But if it gets 1 teenager, or young adult to do some research and learn about him on their own, the movie is a success IMO.

doublem23
04-15-2013, 03:09 PM
I think the movie is great for teaching younger fans about what Robinson went through but I find hard to believe any kid over 7 wouldn't know who Jackie Robinson is. I know Jackie Robinson went through alot and I respect him for his courage but the movie doesn't tell the whole story on him and thats what I was hoping for.

There's plenty of people who don't know what's the capital of the state they live in, don't assume anything

DumpJerry
04-15-2013, 04:34 PM
I saw it Saturday. If you knew little or nothing about Jackie Robinson, you would love this movie. I took a date to see it, and she really liked it. My problem with it is I feel like they only scratched the surface of what he endured, and it only captured his time with the Montreal team and his rookie season in the bigs. He had to deal with that for two years without retaliation, and it probably shortened his career. That said, what pleasantly surprised me was the theater I was at was packed, and the attendees were mostly young white kids. And even if the movie didn't go far enough with the treatment he received, at least you did get a glimpse and feel for it. And i'm glad they touched on his being court martialed while in the army, something i don't think a lot of people know. Definitely worth the price of admission.
Knowing that the movie was only about two hours long, I did not expect an in-depth depiction of what Robinson went through during his career because the move could not start cold with his debut with the Dodgers. I think the movie did a good job of showing what the attitudes were leading up to his signing and how widespread those attitudes were (not just in the South, but throughout MLB regardless of geography).

When the movie "ended" I felt a little cheated, but then they went into the postscript stuff which gave a sense of what happened to Robinson and some of the significant other people in the movie after his rookie year.

Baseball fans might be disappointed by the amount of actual baseball scenes, but I think the movie's message was contained mostly in what happened off the field. They showed enough baseball stuff to show how the other players, reporters and one Manager in particular felt about Robinson's presence in what they felt was their exclusive domain.

The fact that Durocher was the only person officially punished by MLB in direct connection to Robinson (the reason cited was total pretext) speaks volumes of how strong the attitudes were back then. I know Chapman never managed after that year, but there was no official word from MLB banning him for his actions.

Poor Durocher was later further punished by being forced to manage the Cubs in, among other great years, 1969.......

SI1020
04-15-2013, 06:33 PM
If it was overdramatized, it was done so for reasons different thatn other sports movies because the intent was to drive home the contribution that Jackie Robinson and a few others made to America. which really cam't be exaggerated. Robinson's 10-year career, at least the initial years of it, probably took at least 10 years off his life.
I agree with that. Robinson was actually an intelligent man, you might have even called him an intellect, a rarity in baseball then and now. It's an important reason among many others that Rickey chose him to be the first. Robinson had a highly competitive nature that he had to stifle partly in the early years. Oh he was allowed to beat you with his legs, arm and bat but he had to endure some really cruel abuse. Things got better as the 40's became the 50's, but the early years had to take their toll. I remember seeing Robinson on TV at game 2 of the 1972 World Series in Cincinnati and thinking how bad he looked. He was gone 9 days later at the young age of 53.

DSpivack
04-15-2013, 06:47 PM
Can anyone recommend a good book about Robinson's life and/or career? Or Larry Doby, for that matter?

ChiSoxGirl
04-15-2013, 08:28 PM
I saw it Saturday. If you knew little or nothing about Jackie Robinson, you would love this movie. I took a date to see it, and she really liked it. My problem with it is I feel like they only scratched the surface of what he endured, and it only captured his time with the Montreal team and his rookie season in the bigs. He had to deal with that for two years without retaliation, and it probably shortened his career. That said, what pleasantly surprised me was the theater I was at was packed, and the attendees were mostly young white kids. And even if the movie didn't go far enough with the treatment he received, at least you did get a glimpse and feel for it. And i'm glad they touched on his being court martialed while in the army, something i don't think a lot of people know. Definitely worth the price of admission.

I teach seventh grade and a bunch of my students said they saw this movie over the weekend. All of them loved it and, knowing how much of a baseball fan I am, said I have to see it.

chicagowhitesox1
04-15-2013, 08:41 PM
Can anyone recommend a good book about Robinson's life and/or career? Or Larry Doby, for that matter?

I read two books about him. I can't recall the names of them but both were very good books. Apparently Robinson wasn't as well liked as some may think. If I recall correctly, Robinson got along more with his white teammates than he did with Campanella and Newcombe. I know the book touched on this so i'm not sure how much Robinson didn't get along with his black teammates. But I always thought it was kind of a shame that they hand picked Robinson for this honor instead of Josh Gibson or Satchel Paige. I feel baseball did a great thing in finally letting blacks into baseball but I always felt they snubbed alot of people by how they chose. I realize they chose Robinson because he had the strength and courage and smarts to take the namecalling but these other guys like Gibson and Paige had been busting their tails off for years and to not get chosen to be the first black mlb player because they weren't smart or level headed enough is disrespectful in it's own way.

cub killer
04-16-2013, 02:14 AM
I read an article a while ago saying that instead of integration into MLB, the World Series should have been Negro League Champion vs MLB Champion. And that that would have been better for the black community, since this would have elevated the Negro Leagues higher than the AL and NL.

happydude
04-16-2013, 02:44 AM
I read two books about him. I can't recall the names of them but both were very good books. Apparently Robinson wasn't as well liked as some may think. If I recall correctly, Robinson got along more with his white teammates than he did with Campanella and Newcombe. I know the book touched on this so i'm not sure how much Robinson didn't get along with his black teammates. But I always thought it was kind of a shame that they hand picked Robinson for this honor instead of Josh Gibson or Satchel Paige. I feel baseball did a great thing in finally letting blacks into baseball but I always felt they snubbed alot of people by how they chose. I realize they chose Robinson because he had the strength and courage and smarts to take the namecalling but these other guys like Gibson and Paige had been busting their tails off for years and to not get chosen to be the first black mlb player because they weren't smart or level headed enough is disrespectful in it's own way.

Perhaps it was. However, the overall goal was to integrate baseball permanently for the foreseeable future. In order to do that, it was necessary to demonstrate to those within the sport and the much larger and more influential multitudes outside of it, many of whose only information about Blacks consisted of racist propaganda, that the American pastime would only be enhanced by the skills of these wonderful Black ballplayers.

Incidents created by frustrated and angry responses to the type of race-baiting and abuse that went on would have only served to undermine this objective by giving ammunition to the vocal opponents of integration in any arena; the reason why Blacks and Whites needed to be separate "for their own good". To be successful long term instead of just one big splash, it needed to be as smooth a transition as possible and that was always going to fall on the shoulders of whichever Black player came first.

Skill was important but not as important as mental and emotional makeup and disposition.

spawn
04-16-2013, 04:29 AM
I read two books about him. I can't recall the names of them but both were very good books. Apparently Robinson wasn't as well liked as some may think. If I recall correctly, Robinson got along more with his white teammates than he did with Campanella and Newcombe. I know the book touched on this so i'm not sure how much Robinson didn't get along with his black teammates. But I always thought it was kind of a shame that they hand picked Robinson for this honor instead of Josh Gibson or Satchel Paige. I feel baseball did a great thing in finally letting blacks into baseball but I always felt they snubbed alot of people by how they chose. I realize they chose Robinson because he had the strength and courage and smarts to take the namecalling but these other guys like Gibson and Paige had been busting their tails off for years and to not get chosen to be the first black mlb player because they weren't smart or level headed enough is disrespectful in it's own way.
I don't know which books you read, but you may want to go back and re-read them. happydude already touched on this , but Jackie Robinson wasn't chosen because he was the best player in the Negro Leagues. He was chosen because Rickey felt he was the best for integrating baseball. Josh Gibson had a history of emotional issues and baggage. Satchel Paige was too old. So no, it wasn't disrespectful. There was a little more thought put into it than simply who was the best player available.

Golden Sox
04-16-2013, 08:01 AM
1) Jackie Robinson book: Opening Day by Jonathan Eig.
2) Larry Doby book: Larry Doby by Joseph Moore.
There are numerous books about Jackie Robinson but I think Opening Day which deals with Robinsons first year is the best one I've read. Some baseball historians have felt that if the Dodgers had brought Robinson up during the 1946 season the Dodgers would of won the pennant in 1946 instead of losing to the Cardinals in the Playoffs. Durocher wanted to bring Robinson up in the 1946 season, but was overruled by Rickey. Durocher thought Robinson had enough talent to be on the team and should of been brought up during the 1946 season.

doublem23
04-16-2013, 08:22 AM
I read an article a while ago saying that instead of integration into MLB, the World Series should have been Negro League Champion vs MLB Champion. And that that would have been better for the black community, since this would have elevated the Negro Leagues higher than the AL and NL.

Yeah, seperate but equal worked out so well

doublem23
04-16-2013, 08:24 AM
I don't know which books you read, but you may want to go back and re-read them. happydude already touched on this , but Jackie Robinson wasn't chosen because he was the best player in the Negro Leagues. He was chosen because Rickey felt he was the best for integrating baseball. Josh Gibson had a history of emotional issues and baggage. Satchel Paige was too old. So no, it wasn't disrespectful. There was a little more thought put into it than simply who was the best player available.

Also, Josh Gibson died before the 1947 season

spawn
04-16-2013, 08:55 AM
Also, Josh Gibson died before the 1947 season

Yeah, but that couldn't have been foreseen. He had stroke in '43 and was hospitalized in '44. That said, the guy battled drugs and alcohol his adult life. Players like Babe Ruth, who the media covered for, could get away with that. The first black player since the game was segregated wouldn't be so lucky, as everyone would be trying to find a reason integrating the game wouldn't be a good idea. Gibson was one of the best to play the game, but would not have been a good choice for breaking the color barrier.

spawn
04-16-2013, 09:02 AM
I read an article a while ago saying that instead of integration into MLB, the World Series should have been Negro League Champion vs MLB Champion. And that that would have been better for the black community, since this would have elevated the Negro Leagues higher than the AL and NL.

In who's eyes? They still would not have been deemed equal in terms of playing side by side with MLB'ers. It was bout more than just a game.

doublem23
04-16-2013, 09:05 AM
Yeah, but that couldn't have been foreseen. He had stroke in '43 and was hospitalized in '44. That said, the guy battled drugs and alcohol his adult life. Players like Babe Ruth, who the media covered for, could get away with that. The first black player since the game was segregated wouldn't be so lucky, as everyone would be trying to find a reason integrating the game wouldn't be a good idea. Gibson was one of the best to play the game, but would not have been a good choice for breaking the color barrier.

Oh, absolutely, I don't think there's any question that Jackie Robinson was the right man for the job, when you understand what he went through, especially those first few years in Brooklyn, it's just amazing he was able to endure it all. And even if he wasn't the best black baseball player of his time, he was still a very, very good player.

DumpJerry
04-16-2013, 09:06 AM
Yeah, but that couldn't have been foreseen. He had stroke in '43 and was hospitalized in '44. That said, the guy battled drugs and alcohol his adult life. Players like Babe Ruth, who the media covered for, could get away with that. The first black player since the game was segregated wouldn't be so lucky, as everyone would be trying to find a reason integrating the game wouldn't be a good idea. Gibson was one of the best to play the game, but would not have been a good choice for breaking the color barrier.
Understatement. Gibson makes Bench and Piazza look like Tyler Flowers.

spawn
04-16-2013, 09:29 AM
Understatement. Gibson makes Bench and Piazza look like Tyler Flowers.

Well, I did say one of the best, not one of the best catchers. :wink:

DumpJerry
04-16-2013, 09:31 AM
Well, I did say one of the best, not one of the best catchers. :wink:
Ok, fair enough. He makes Babe Ruth look like Adam Dunn.:tongue:

(Ruth was a strike out king who held the career record until Slammin' Sammy Sosa broke it).

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 10:11 AM
Ok, fair enough. He makes Babe Ruth look like Adam Dunn.:tongue:

(Ruth was a strike out king who held the career record until Slammin' Sammy Sosa broke it).

Are you sure? I thought Reggie Jackson was the record-holder before Sosa.

Edit: Looks like Jackson is still (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/SO_career.shtml) the record-holder.

spawn
04-16-2013, 12:16 PM
Oh, absolutely, I don't think there's any question that Jackie Robinson was the right man for the job, when you understand what he went through, especially those first few years in Brooklyn, it's just amazing he was able to endure it all. And even if he wasn't the best black baseball player of his time, he was still a very, very good player.

Oh yeah Doub, I know you understand that. But there are still people that believe players like Gibson, Paige, or even Monte Irvin should've been chosen over Robinson, but I don't think these people fully understand the reasons they weren't chosen.

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 12:26 PM
I don't know which books you read, but you may want to go back and re-read them. happydude already touched on this , but Jackie Robinson wasn't chosen because he was the best player in the Negro Leagues. He was chosen because Rickey felt he was the best for integrating baseball. Josh Gibson had a history of emotional issues and baggage. Satchel Paige was too old. So no, it wasn't disrespectful. There was a little more thought put into it than simply who was the best player available.

I realize this but alot of Negro League players did resent MLB on the way they chose Robinson and I don't blame them. Robinson was a great player and he turned out to be the perfect player chosen but it's still a slap in the face to players who put their dues in and were passed up because baseball deemed them unworthy. What Jackie Robinson went through was pure hell but at the same time he did relish in his fame and he snubbed his nose at alot of black players who paid alot more dues in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. I'm not trying to bash Robinson but the movie 42 only showed a part of him that like in 1947 that baseball wants us to see or know about.

spawn
04-16-2013, 01:21 PM
I realize this but alot of Negro League players did resent MLB on the way they chose Robinson and I don't blame them. Robinson was a great player and he turned out to be the perfect player chosen but it's still a slap in the face to players who put their dues in and were passed up because baseball deemed them unworthy. What Jackie Robinson went through was pure hell but at the same time he did relish in his fame and he snubbed his nose at alot of black players who paid alot more dues in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. I'm not trying to bash Robinson but the movie 42 only showed a part of him that like in 1947 that baseball wants us to see or know about.
Please provide proof that Robinson snubbed his nose at black players. I've never read anything of the sort. And It's not like MLB had a black player draft and only chose Robinson. None of what you are saying makes ANY sense. The MLB didn't choose him. Branch Rickey did. And the way MLB players and fans verbally abused him that first season, it's ridiculous to say that MLB chose him. You say you don't want to bash Jackie, but in a backhanded way, you are. Sounds like you wanted the movie to deliver dirt on him. Sorry you were disappointed.

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 02:11 PM
Please provide proof that Robinson snubbed his nose at black players. I've never read anything of the sort. And It's not like MLB had a black player draft and only chose Robinson. None of what you are saying makes ANY sense. The MLB didn't choose him. Branch Rickey did. And the way MLB players and fans verbally abused him that first season, it's ridiculous to say that MLB chose him. You say you don't want to bash Jackie, but in a backhanded way, you are. Sounds like you wanted the movie to deliver dirt on him. Sorry you were disappointed.

Honestly if you read a few books on the Negro Leagues instead of watching a movie geared towards kids you will learn a little more on how alot of the old black players felt. I don't mean to say Robinson was hated by players in the Negro Leagues because he was viewed as a hero in alot of ways but alot of players did feel slighted by him. It's pretty well known about his clashes with Campanella and Newcombe and even if you watch interviews by Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil they give him respect but they always made a point of saying that there were others who were better players.

There's actually a movie that gives a little insight to how Robinson was viewed. It wasn't the best movie but it's called "Soul of the Game" I read alot of baseball books and I found it interesting how Robinson was viewed by alot of black players in the old Negro Leagues.

I'm not trying to bash Robinson in a backhanded way either but after reading more and more about the Nero Leagues I kinda feel bad for the forgotten players.

spawn
04-16-2013, 02:21 PM
Honestly if you read a few books on the Negro Leagues instead of watching a movie geared towards kids you will learn a little more on how alot of the old black players felt. I don't mean to say Robinson was hated by players in the Negro Leagues because he was viewed as a hero in alot of ways but alot of players did feel slighted by him. It's pretty well known about his clashes with Campanella and Newcombe and even if you watch interviews by Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil they give him respect but they always made a point of saying that there were others who were better players.

There's actually a movie that gives a little insight to how Robinson was viewed. It wasn't the best movie but it's called "Soul of the Game" I read alot of baseball books and I found it interesting how Robinson was viewed by alot of black players in the old Negro Leagues.

I'm not trying to bash Robinson in a backhanded way either but after reading more and more about the Nero Leagues I kinda feel bad for the forgotten players.
First of all, you have no idea who I am, what I've read, and what movies I've seen. Second, it's been stated REPEATEDLY here that there were better players in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. You seem to keep missing that point. Third, you said he snubbed his nose to other black players. Prove it. Post a link to back it up. This (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/columns/story?id=5096485) interview given by Don Newcombe sure doesn't sound like someone treated badly by Jackie. But yeah, I'm sure you'll just blow it off as someone not wanting to stir controversy. But until you provide proof to back up your assertions, nothing you say will have merit.

Last but not least...there is a museum dedicated to the players from the Negro Leagues. They may not have played in the Majors, but they have not been forgotten. And if this particular movie gets someone to learn about the Negro Leagues, then it is a success.

TomBradley72
04-16-2013, 02:39 PM
Honestly if you read a few books on the Negro Leagues instead of watching a movie geared towards kids you will learn a little more on how alot of the old black players felt. I don't mean to say Robinson was hated by players in the Negro Leagues because he was viewed as a hero in alot of ways but alot of players did feel slighted by him. It's pretty well known about his clashes with Campanella and Newcombe and even if you watch interviews by Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil they give him respect but they always made a point of saying that there were others who were better players.

There's actually a movie that gives a little insight to how Robinson was viewed. It wasn't the best movie but it's called "Soul of the Game" I read alot of baseball books and I found it interesting how Robinson was viewed by alot of black players in the old Negro Leagues.

I'm not trying to bash Robinson in a backhanded way either but after reading more and more about the Nero Leagues I kinda feel bad for the forgotten players.

I know what you mean- the musuem is great- but relatively new and unless someone visit KC- not a huge impact.

Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell- all should be as well known as Jackie- and as well known as Mickey Cochrane, Cy Young and Ty Cobb-

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 02:51 PM
First of all, you have no idea who I am, what I've read, and what movies I've seen. Second, it's been stated REPEATEDLY here that there were better players in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. You seem to keep missing that point. Third, you said he snubbed his nose to other black players. Prove it. Post a link to back it up. This (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/columns/story?id=5096485) interview given by Don Newcombe sure doesn't sound like someone treated badly by Jackie. But yeah, I'm sure you'll just blow it off as someone not wanting to stir controversy. But until you provide proof to back up your assertions, nothing you say will have merit.

Last but not least...there is a museum dedicated to the players from the Negro Leagues. They may not have played in the Majors, but they have not been forgotten. And if this particular movie gets someone to learn about the Negro Leagues, then it is a success.

The museum was made in 1990, years after many Negro leaguers had died. I don't have links for this but Negro Leaguers were pretty upset they had to wait so many years to finally get a museum. As for providing proof on why Negro Leaguers felt slighted by Robinson, I'll admit on searches, I find nothing but read a few more books on the Negro leagues. I'm not trying to get into a argument with you but I know what i've read and I have no reason to believe it's not true. Maybe read a book on Josh Gibson, I really can't recall which book it was where I learned all this but I know it was in more than one book.

spawn
04-16-2013, 03:06 PM
The museum was made in 1990, years after many Negro leaguers had died. I don't have links for this but Negro Leaguers were pretty upset they had to wait so many years to finally get a museum. As for providing proof on why Negro Leaguers felt slighted by Robinson, I'll admit on searches, I find nothing but read a few more books on the Negro leagues. I'm not trying to get into a argument with you but I know what i've read and I have no reason to believe it's not true. Maybe read a book on Josh Gibson, I really can't recall which book it was where I learned all this but I know it was in more than one book.

Well,yes, Negro Leaguers have a right to be upset. I don't dispute that at all. My issue with you is you saying Jackie Robinson snubbed his nose at other black baseball players, and you have yet to provide proof of this.

As far as Josh Gibson goes...the man died in January, 1947, before Robinson broke into the majors. Are you saying he was snubbed by Jackie from his grave?

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 03:15 PM
I know what you mean- the musuem is great- but relatively new and unless someone visit KC- not a huge impact.

Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell- all should be as well known as Jackie- and as well known as Mickey Cochrane, Cy Young and Ty Cobb-

Thanks, yeah that is what what I mean, Robinson is a legend by all means but these guys put the time into building the Negro Leagues and they were never really mentioned and I think that is why alot of Negro League players felt slighted or even snubbed by Robinson. Jackie Robinson spent a very short time in the Negro Leagues and all of a sudden he's the toast of the town while these guys who did alot in promoting the Negro Leagues finally got their due much later in life.

jdm2662
04-16-2013, 03:17 PM
Well,yes, Negro Leaguers have a right to be upset. I don't dispute that at all. My issue with you is you saying Jackie Robinson snubbed his nose at other black baseball players, and you have yet to provide proof of this.

As far as Josh Gibson goes...the man died in January, 1947, before Robinson broke into the majors. Are you saying he was snubbed by Jackie from his grave?

What is your opinion on Larry Doby? I don't think he's recognized enough. Obviously, he wasn't the first, but he was the first in the AL. The leagues meant a whole lot more back then than it does now.

spawn
04-16-2013, 03:24 PM
What is your opinion on Larry Doby? I don't think he's recognized enough. Obviously, he wasn't the first, but he was the first in the AL. The leagues meant a whole lot more back then than it does now.

I agree. He should be recognized more. He broke in only a few weeks after Robinson. Unfortunately, I think the reason he's not given more recognition is because he didn't have the success Robinson had, and he played in Cleveland. Had he played for the Red Sox or the Giants, I'm sure it would've been a different story. He did go through the same abuse as Jackie, but he only played in 29 games, and didn't have much of an impact for the team his rookie season. Robinson won the inaugural Rookie of the Year award.

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 03:26 PM
Well,yes, Negro Leaguers have a right to be upset. I don't dispute that at all. My issue with you is you saying Jackie Robinson snubbed his nose at other black baseball players, and you have yet to provide proof of this.

As far as Josh Gibson goes...the man died in January, 1947, before Robinson broke into the majors. Are you saying he was snubbed by Jackie from his grave?

I obviously wouldn't say that but Josh Gibson really wanted to be the first Negro League player to break the barrier but baseball waited until they found the right man which Robinson obviously was but at the same time is it really right to pick Robinson over Gibson. Gibson was going to be called up in the early 40's but baseball decided to pass on him. Jackie Robinson never payed very much respect to those veteran Negro Leaguers. Maybe because he figured they were jealous of him and maybe Robinson didn't realize he was slightng them but alot of those guys did feel slighted. It's kinda like how a guy at work gets a promotion and everyone is clapping their hands for him but in the background they are saying he didn't deserve this.

happydude
04-16-2013, 03:45 PM
I obviously wouldn't say that but Josh Gibson really wanted to be the first Negro League player to break the barrier but baseball waited until they found the right man which Robinson obviously was but at the same time is it really right to pick Robinson over Gibson. Gibson was going to be called up in the early 40's but baseball decided to pass on him. Jackie Robinson never payed very much respect to those veteran Negro Leaguers. Maybe because he figured they were jealous of him and maybe Robinson didn't realize he was slightng them but alot of those guys did feel slighted. It's kinda like how a guy at work gets a promotion and everyone is clapping their hands for him but in the background they are saying he didn't deserve this.

Its possible that you're correct. However, if this is true it only serves to provide further justification to the selection of Robinson over these other players. The inability, or unwillingness, to derive joy from the successes of others can be a reflection of selfishness or immaturity; the very type of character traits that may have resulted in the type of incident or conduct that the "fist black ballplayer" needed to avoid during the early years of integration.

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 04:01 PM
Its possible that you're correct. However, if this is true it only serves to provide further justification to the selection of Robinson over these other players. The inability, or unwillingness, to derive joy from the successes of others can be a reflection of selfishness or immaturity; the very type of character traits that may have resulted in the type of incident or conduct that the "fist black ballplayer" needed to avoid during the early years of integration.

True but these guys from the Negro Leagues endured alot too and instead of MLB bringing in one of their own, they went with a guy who wasn't in the inner circle of the Negro Leagues. If I was them I would feel angry about that. Jackie Robinson was getting all the accolades and fame while these guys had to be standup guys and give interviews praising Robinson while basiacally being ignored by the general public. I find alot of them just as honorable if not more honorable.

spawn
04-16-2013, 04:02 PM
I obviously wouldn't say that but Josh Gibson really wanted to be the first Negro League player to break the barrier but baseball waited until they found the right man which Robinson obviously was but at the same time is it really right to pick Robinson over Gibson.
You're asking, and keep asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is why Robinson was picked over Gibson. And the answer has nothing to do with who the better player was. You keep missing that point! And you keep saying MLB brought Jackie up. It wasn't the league. It was Rickey, and at almost the same time, it was Veeck in the AL.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall here. I'm done.

jdm2662
04-16-2013, 04:33 PM
I agree. He should be recognized more. He broke in only a few weeks after Robinson. Unfortunately, I think the reason he's not given more recognition is because he didn't have the success Robinson had, and he played in Cleveland. Had he played for the Red Sox or the Giants, I'm sure it would've been a different story. He did go through the same abuse as Jackie, but he only played in 29 games, and didn't have much of an impact for the team his rookie season. Robinson won the inaugural Rookie of the Year award.

Yeah, when I looked it up yesterday, I saw he was just a bench player his rookie season. With Jackie being the Rookie of the Year and playing every day, I can see why he got all the attention. But, Doby shouldn't be completely forgotten. It seems he's only remembered in Cleveland. I know they've honored him quite a bit.

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 05:37 PM
You're asking, and keep asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is why Robinson was picked over Gibson. And the answer has nothing to do with who the better player was. You keep missing that point! And you keep saying MLB brought Jackie up. It wasn't the league. It was Rickey, and at almost the same time, it was Veeck in the AL.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall here. I'm done.

I feel like i'm banging my head against the wall with you. I say MLB because Happy Chandler who was the commisioner played a huge role in letting blacks play. If it wasn't for Chandler, Robinson wouldn't have played in 1947. The movie portrayed Chandler as some goof which was way off. I'm guessing thats why your giving Branch Rickey so much credit.

spawn
04-16-2013, 07:37 PM
I feel like i'm banging my head against the wall with you. I say MLB because Happy Chandler who was the commisioner played a huge role in letting blacks play. If it wasn't for Chandler, Robinson wouldn't have played in 1947. The movie portrayed Chandler as some goof which was way off. I'm guessing thats why your giving Branch Rickey so much credit.
Chandler indeed played a role in allowing blacks to play as Landis did everything in his power to keep the game white. He didn't choose which black player would break the color barrier. That was Rickey. So to say MLB chose Robinson over all of the other black players available just sounds ridiculous.

And I'm still waiting on you to provide proof that Robinson snubbed other black players.

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 08:10 PM
Chandler indeed played a role in allowing blacks to play as Landis did everything in his power to keep the game white. He didn't choose which black player would break the color barrier. That was Rickey. So to say MLB chose Robinson over all of the other black players available just sounds ridiculous.

And I'm still waiting on you to provide proof that Robinson snubbed other black players.

:popcorn:

chicagowhitesox1
04-16-2013, 08:16 PM
Chandler indeed played a role in allowing blacks to play as Landis did everything in his power to keep the game white. He didn't choose which black player would break the color barrier. That was Rickey. So to say MLB chose Robinson over all of the other black players available just sounds ridiculous.

And I'm still waiting on you to provide proof that Robinson snubbed other black players.

Your giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for this and thats a totally wrong. I'm just saying MLB because i'm not giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for allowing Jackie Robinson into baseball. I know you know that there was alot more going on behind the scenes to give Branch Rickey credit like that. Actually Rickey voted no to keep Robinson out I think in 1946 but Chandler intervined. That movie went a little in making Rickey into some sort of saint. In reality it wasn't realy like that.

I can try and find some sort proof on the snubbing deal but when I did searches nothing came up. You'd have to read books about the Negro Leagues.

Red Barchetta
04-16-2013, 08:16 PM
I took my 12 year-old son to see it on Sunday. Overall, I thought it was really good, but as others mentioned, very scripted. Some scenes really made old Florida look bad! :?:

Funniest part was after the movie when my son asked, "Was that Han Solo?"

:D:

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 08:19 PM
I can try and find some sort proof on the snubbing deal but when I did searches nothing came up. You'd have to read books about the Negro Leagues.

This entire place is starting to reek of horse****.

spawn
04-16-2013, 08:44 PM
Your giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for this and thats a totally wrong. I'm just saying MLB because i'm not giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for allowing Jackie Robinson into baseball. I know you know that there was alot more going on behind the scenes to give Branch Rickey credit like that. Actually Rickey voted no to keep Robinson out I think in 1946 but Chandler intervined. That movie went a little in making Rickey into some sort of saint. In reality it wasn't realy like that.
I don't think I've made Rickey into a saint at all. The bottom line is, Rickey probably saw more dollars at the gate, black people spending their money, to watch blacks play baseball. And I've never said Rickey was 100% responsible for Robinson breaking the color barrier. I'm giving Ricky credit for the player chosen to integrate the league. You seem to be giving MLB the credit. And you said Rickey voted to keep Robinson out in '46? He signed Robinson to a minor league contract in '45. Why would he then vote to keep him out in '46? That makes absolutely no sense. Do you have proof? You keep making these outlandish statements, but have nothing to back them up.

I can try and find some sort proof on the snubbing deal but when I did searches nothing came up. You'd have to read books about the Negro Leagues.
So you have no proof then. You make the statement, but want me to prove it for you. Yeah...ok.

spawn
04-16-2013, 08:44 PM
I took my 12 year-old son to see it on Sunday. Overall, I thought it was really good, but as others mentioned, very scripted. Some scenes really made old Florida look bad! :?:

Funniest part was after the movie when my son asked, "Was that Han Solo?"

:D:
Just glad he didn't ask if Robinson was Chewbacca. :D:

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 08:49 PM
So you have no proof then. You make the statement, but want me to prove it for you. Yeah...ok.

This reminds me of the time my boss wanted several of my colleagues and me to attend a workshop. He told us that it was our responsibility to arrange time off, find transportation, pay for the conference, etc. I said, "So, you're mandating this, but we're doing all of the heavy lifting?"

He said, "Why would I need to help you with any of it?"

I didn't respond.

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 08:50 PM
Just glad he didn't ask if Robinson was Chewbacca. :D:

I was thinking more along the lines of Lando Calrissian. :cool:

spawn
04-16-2013, 08:51 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of Lando Calrissian. :cool:
Damn. How did I miss that? :redface:

cub killer
04-16-2013, 10:49 PM
In who's eyes? They still would not have been deemed equal in terms of playing side by side with MLB'ers. It was bout more than just a game.
I find this hard to comprehend. So you're saying that if the Negro Leagues proved to the world that they were equal or better than the NL/AL by beating them in the World Series, they would still not be as popular simply because they were black?

If society's mentality was that horrible back then, then I'm glad I didn't live it.

RKMeibalane
04-16-2013, 10:57 PM
I find this hard to comprehend. So you're saying that if the Negro Leagues proved to the world that they were equal or better than the NL/AL by beating them in the World Series, they would still not be as popular simply because they were black?

If society's mentality was that horrible back then, then I'm glad I didn't live it.

It was that bad. I'm not convinced it's much better today, although for somewhat different reasons than racism. I won't say anymore than that for fear of getting my post moved to the ****house.

chicagowhitesox1
04-17-2013, 01:14 AM
I don't think I've made Rickey into a saint at all. The bottom line is, Rickey probably saw more dollars at the gate, black people spending their money, to watch blacks play baseball. And I've never said Rickey was 100% responsible for Robinson breaking the color barrier. I'm giving Ricky credit for the player chosen to integrate the league. You seem to be giving MLB the credit. And you said Rickey voted to keep Robinson out in '46? He signed Robinson to a minor league contract in '45. Why would he then vote to keep him out in '46? That makes absolutely no sense. Do you have proof? You keep making these outlandish statements, but have nothing to back them up.

So you have no proof then. You make the statement, but want me to prove it for you. Yeah...ok.

I'm at work right now but I really don't know how to give you proof. I'm pretty new to the internet. All I can tell you is read articles or books from players who played in the Negro leagues. I'll try to get a decent source tommorow when i come home. All I'm trying to say is the movie 42 as good as it was isn;t as accurate as you think. It;s a little dramatic for my taste. I'll be honest though, everything I look up about robinson on the internet only tells me how great of a person he was. As for Branch Rickey and your quip. I can tell your the type of person who will bash me but in a week or so you will tell others a different story on what you think about jackie Robinson. Your just looking for an argument.

spawn
04-17-2013, 04:01 AM
I'm at work right now but I really don't know how to give you proof. I'm pretty new to the internet. All I can tell you is read articles or books from players who played in the Negro leagues. I'll try to get a decent source tommorow when i come home. All I'm trying to say is the movie 42 as good as it was isn;t as accurate as you think. It;s a little dramatic for my taste. I'll be honest though, everything I look up about robinson on the internet only tells me how great of a person he was. As for Branch Rickey and your quip. I can tell your the type of person who will bash me but in a week or so you will tell others a different story on what you think about jackie Robinson. Your just looking for an argument.

Not looking for an argument. Usually when someone makes a statement like you did, then it is on them to provide proof. Telling me to read articles on the Negro Leagues, something I've done, doesn't cut it. And I'll tell others a different story on Robinson? :rolling: Yeah...ok.

TDog
04-18-2013, 12:44 AM
I obviously wouldn't say that but Josh Gibson really wanted to be the first Negro League player to break the barrier but baseball waited until they found the right man which Robinson obviously was but at the same time is it really right to pick Robinson over Gibson. Gibson was going to be called up in the early 40's but baseball decided to pass on him. Jackie Robinson never payed very much respect to those veteran Negro Leaguers. Maybe because he figured they were jealous of him and maybe Robinson didn't realize he was slightng them but alot of those guys did feel slighted. It's kinda like how a guy at work gets a promotion and everyone is clapping their hands for him but in the background they are saying he didn't deserve this.

Granted, my knowlege isn't first-hand, but I researched Negro League baseball and major league integration long ago when I was in college, reading several histories and going through newspaper stories. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Josh Gibson was diagnosed with a brain tumor in 1943, for which he had brain surgery. Leading up to that and thereafter, he wasn't the same hitter or catcher he was in the earlier in his career. There were also drug problems that seem to have affected his play in the later years and may be linked to the brain surgery.

The popular belief is that Josh Gibson died of a broken heart, being overlooked by major league baseball. He died before Jackie Robinson played his first game, after suffering a stroke. At some points, his sanity seems to have been questioned. There were years in the late 1930 and early 1940s when he didn't even play in the Negro Leagues, but in Mexico and the Dominincan Republic. The leagues he played for didn't keep meticulous records (i.e. no one ever officially counted his home runs, and I have seen no documentation to show he hit 200 let alone 800.) The legend of Babe Ruth is embellished documented fact. The legend of Josh Gibson is legend. It's a fine legend, but he was born to early to play major league baseball.

What most confuses me about your position is the implication that there was some sort of conspiracy to integrate baseball. Branch Rickey was on his own in signing Robinson. Affter the war, after the death of Landis, there were a lot of people who believed MLB integration was inevitable. Wendell Smith, who I used to watch do WGN sports when I was a kid, was one of the journalists leading the fight. But before Jackie Robinson broke in, no one was signing Negro League players except Branch Rickey. And there were many in and around baseball who didn't like it, including The Sporting News.

There wasn't going to be MLB integration as long as Landis was alive, which left Josh Gibson well out of the picture. The best player in the Negro Leagues at the time Robinson broke the color barrier, if you read contemporary reports, was believed to be Monte Irvin, who approached by Branch Rickey in 1945. Irvin reportedly said he wasn't in baseball shape. Irvin didn't make it the majors until 1949 when he debuted with the Giants, who retired his number in San Francisco last summer. (Somewhere, I have a baseball signed by Monte Irvin, Bob Gibson and Bob Feller, but I digress.)

No one, including Robinson, ever said Robinson was the best player in the Negro Leagues. Of course, there were star Negro Leaguers who were publicly jealous that they didn't get the first call. But breaking baseball's color barrier wasn't just about baseball. I don't know if there was anyone who was better who had the character to do what he did.

SI1020
04-18-2013, 07:43 AM
I find this hard to comprehend. So you're saying that if the Negro Leagues proved to the world that they were equal or better than the NL/AL by beating them in the World Series, they would still not be as popular simply because they were black?

If society's mentality was that horrible back then, then I'm glad I didn't live it. I don't want to start a ****storm but it is futile to judge a past era by today's standards, and there are a lot of bad misconceptions about what life was like back then. Of course I believe we have come a long way. Also, FWIW it was not uncommon to have a significant white presence at some Negro League games. Negro League teams and players also barnstormed all across small town and rural America and played to big enthusiastic crowds.

doublem23
04-18-2013, 07:46 AM
I don't want to start a ****storm but it is futile to judge a past era by today's standards, and there are a lot of bad misconceptions about what life was like back then. Of course I believe we have come a long way. Also, FWIW it was not uncommon to have a significant white presence at some Negro League games. Negro League teams and players also barnstormed all across small town and rural America and played to big enthusiastic crowds.

I think it's wrong to judge individual people for their actions when they were considered "normal" during their lifetimes, but I think we can all also agree that, for now the majority of the American population, the society of yesteryear was ****ing awful and we're better off now than we were then.

RKMeibalane
04-18-2013, 07:47 AM
I'm at work right now but I really don't know how to give you proof. I'm pretty new to the internet. All I can tell you is read articles or books from players who played in the Negro leagues. I'll try to get a decent source tommorow when i come home. All I'm trying to say is the movie 42 as good as it was isn;t as accurate as you think. It;s a little dramatic for my taste. I'll be honest though, everything I look up about robinson on the internet only tells me how great of a person he was. As for Branch Rickey and your quip. I can tell your the type of person who will bash me but in a week or so you will tell others a different story on what you think about jackie Robinson. Your just looking for an argument.

I don't know what this means.

spawn
04-18-2013, 08:53 AM
I find this hard to comprehend. So you're saying that if the Negro Leagues proved to the world that they were equal or better than the NL/AL by beating them in the World Series, they would still not be as popular simply because they were black?

If society's mentality was that horrible back then, then I'm glad I didn't live it.

Well, considering in parts of the country back then, blacks were forced to sit in the back of the bus, or give their seat up to a white person if there were no other seats available, weren't allowed to eat at lunch counters, weren't allowed to stay in certain hotels, were forced to drink from separate water fountains or use separate bathrooms than whites...I could go on.

chicagowhitesox1
04-18-2013, 12:37 PM
Granted, my knowlege isn't first-hand, but I researched Negro League baseball and major league integration long ago when I was in college, reading several histories and going through newspaper stories. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Josh Gibson was diagnosed with a brain tumor in 1943, for which he had brain surgery. Leading up to that and thereafter, he wasn't the same hitter or catcher he was in the earlier in his career. There were also drug problems that seem to have affected his play in the later years and may be linked to the brain surgery.

The popular belief is that Josh Gibson died of a broken heart, being overlooked by major league baseball. He died before Jackie Robinson played his first game, after suffering a stroke. At some points, his sanity seems to have been questioned. There were years in the late 1930 and early 1940s when he didn't even play in the Negro Leagues, but in Mexico and the Dominincan Republic. The leagues he played for didn't keep meticulous records (i.e. no one ever officially counted his home runs, and I have seen no documentation to show he hit 200 let alone 800.) The legend of Babe Ruth is embellished documented fact. The legend of Josh Gibson is legend. It's a fine legend, but he was born to early to play major league baseball.

What most confuses me about your position is the implication that there was some sort of conspiracy to integrate baseball. Branch Rickey was on his own in signing Robinson. Affter the war, after the death of Landis, there were a lot of people who believed MLB integration was inevitable. Wendell Smith, who I used to watch do WGN sports when I was a kid, was one of the journalists leading the fight. But before Jackie Robinson broke in, no one was signing Negro League players except Branch Rickey. And there were many in and around baseball who didn't like it, including The Sporting News.

There wasn't going to be MLB integration as long as Landis was alive, which left Josh Gibson well out of the picture. The best player in the Negro Leagues at the time Robinson broke the color barrier, if you read contemporary reports, was believed to be Monte Irvin, who approached by Branch Rickey in 1945. Irvin reportedly said he wasn't in baseball shape. Irvin didn't make it the majors until 1949 when he debuted with the Giants, who retired his number in San Francisco last summer. (Somewhere, I have a baseball signed by Monte Irvin, Bob Gibson and Bob Feller, but I digress.)

No one, including Robinson, ever said Robinson was the best player in the Negro Leagues. Of course, there were star Negro Leaguers who were publicly jealous that they didn't get the first call. But breaking baseball's color barrier wasn't just about baseball. I don't know if there was anyone who was better who had the character to do what he did.

I agree with you on this except for Rickey wasn't on his own in signing Robinson. He even admitted that if it wasn't for Chandler, Robinson wouldn't have played. I know Robinson wasn't the best player and I realize he was picked for other reasons than his ability. (which I don't know if anyone could have been better) but basically I was hoping for a movie that was more like a documentary. Jackie Robinson had a problem with black players who weren't into civil rights and he looked down upon players who drank or womanized. If I recall correctly, thats why Campanella and Robinson clashed. I do agree with you on Gibson and I worded that wrong earlier but Monte Irvin got shafted. I'm not exactly sure why he said he wasn't in baseball shape because he sure hit well in the Negro Leagues. But I have no reason not to believe you.

chicagowhitesox1
04-18-2013, 12:37 PM
I don't know what this means.

It means i'm new to the internet.

RKMeibalane
04-18-2013, 12:55 PM
It means i'm new to the internet.

I see. Welcome to the World Wide Web, designed and built by former Vice President Al Gore.

chicagowhitesox1
04-18-2013, 01:01 PM
I see. Welcome to the World Wide Web, designed and built by former Vice President Al Gore.

Thanks.

spawn
04-18-2013, 01:19 PM
Jackie Robinson had a problem with black players who weren't into civil rights and he looked down upon players who drank or womanized. If I recall correctly, thats why Campanella and Robinson clashed. I do agree with you on Gibson and I worded that wrong earlier but Monte Irvin got shafted. I'm not exactly sure why he said he wasn't in baseball shape because he sure hit well in the Negro Leagues. But I have no reason not to believe you.

Ok...I don't see the problem with his opinions of black players that drank or were womanizers. Considering how far they came, the last thing needed at that time was to give a reason why they shouldn't be allowed in the game. It feeds the stereotype. You made it seem like he snubbed his nose at all black players. And his opinion on players that weren't involved in civil rights is fine by me too, given the time and attitudes of that era. And Monte Irvin shafted himself. He told Rickey he wasn't ready.

As far as Chandler and Rickey go...well, yes. Chandler was the commissioner. Without his blessing, Robinson would not have been allowed to play. But again...no one has said Rickey was 100% responsible, but he is 100% responsible with regards to who was chosen.

TDog
04-18-2013, 04:59 PM
I agree with you on this except for Rickey wasn't on his own in signing Robinson. He even admitted that if it wasn't for Chandler, Robinson wouldn't have played. I know Robinson wasn't the best player and I realize he was picked for other reasons than his ability. (which I don't know if anyone could have been better) but basically I was hoping for a movie that was more like a documentary. Jackie Robinson had a problem with black players who weren't into civil rights and he looked down upon players who drank or womanized. If I recall correctly, thats why Campanella and Robinson clashed. I do agree with you on Gibson and I worded that wrong earlier but Monte Irvin got shafted. I'm not exactly sure why he said he wasn't in baseball shape because he sure hit well in the Negro Leagues. But I have no reason not to believe you.

Chandler didn't block Rickey's signings of black players as Landis would have. But it wasn't as if Chandler approached Rickey and said it was time he started signing black players. Chandler's cooperation was more of a vacuum where well-document resistance had been under Landis. It should not diminish Rickey's contributions to history.

Monte Irvin was in San Francisco last summer and said he told Rickey he was not in good enough shape to play major league baseball. I didn't get the impression he believed he was shafted.

chicagowhitesox1
04-18-2013, 05:29 PM
Chandler didn't block Rickey's signings of black players as Landis would have. But it wasn't as if Chandler approached Rickey and said it was time he started signing black players. Chandler's cooperation was more of a vacuum where well-document resistance had been under Landis. It should not diminish Rickey's contributions to history.

Monte Irvin was in San Francisco last summer and said he told Rickey he was not in good enough shape to play major league baseball. I didn't get the impression he believed he was shafted.

I don't think Branch Rickey's contributions should be diminised but I brought up Rickey and Chandler because the movie 42 kind of portrayed Chandler as a misguided commisioner.I just didn't think it was right that Rickey usually gets 100 percent credit for the Robinson signing. I know he played a big part in getting Robinson signed but that movie really made it look like Rickey was the only one. I understand the movie really can't go into full detail without boring half the audience or prolonging it into a 4 hour movie though. I've stated already I like the movie but I was personally hoping for more.

Like I said before, I have no reason to believe otherwise on what you say about Monte Irvin. I have my opinions and others have they'rs and I respect that.

SI1020
04-18-2013, 06:12 PM
At this point, many generations after the fact it seems to me that it is close to impossible to be fair and still criticize the choice of Jackie Robinson to integrate MLB. I will say this, I have tried to corroborate the contentions made here by cws1. At this point, I'm not having any luck but I'll keep trying. Roy Campanella gets a mention here. I have no idea if he was a womanizer, he was married 3 times. Campanella just might be my all time favorite catcher, or at least close to it. Everything I read or learned about him led me believe he had an outgoing live wire kind of personality and was popular with the both fans and teammates. Campanella was a very vocal catcher, not afraid to go out to the mound and chew a pitcher out. He was able to do it in such a way to motivate them. "Hey Nuke. I called for the express and you gave me the local." In 1946 Campanella and Newcombe were teammates for the lower minors then Class B Nashua Dodgers of the New England league. His season there was reported to be mostly trouble free and he even got to manage a few innings when Walter Alston was ejected from a game. Nashua, down by 3 runs was able to come back and win the game. The Boys of Summer were an interesting bunch of guys.

JasonFrasor54
04-18-2013, 07:10 PM
All I can say was I wish they were able to go more in depth. I really liked the movie and thought the acting was excellent from a film stand point. The casting was perfect.

Did anybody else really like John C. McGinley as Red Barber? (the announcer) I thought he went above and beyond in his performance.

DumpJerry
04-19-2013, 07:09 AM
Ok, old timers and highway buffs, maybe you have the answer to this question.

In the scene leading up to the gas station scene, they show the KC Monarchs bus on the road and the caption said it was on an Interstate highway (I think it said I-24). The Interstate highway system was not created until the late 1950's. Was this a mistake? Was it supposed to be U.S Route XX?

doublem23
04-19-2013, 08:17 AM
Ok, old timers and highway buffs, maybe you have the answer to this question.

In the scene leading up to the gas station scene, they show the KC Monarchs bus on the road and the caption said it was on an Interstate highway (I think it said I-24). The Interstate highway system was not created until the late 1950's. Was this a mistake? Was it supposed to be U.S Route XX?

Nice catch. I'm sure it's just a **** up, if it was Interstate 44, that is a real modern-day interstate highway that runs through Missouri, from St. Louis, southwest to Tulsa and Oklahoma City.

TDog
04-19-2013, 09:38 AM
Ok, old timers and highway buffs, maybe you have the answer to this question.

In the scene leading up to the gas station scene, they show the KC Monarchs bus on the road and the caption said it was on an Interstate highway (I think it said I-24). The Interstate highway system was not created until the late 1950's. Was this a mistake? Was it supposed to be U.S Route XX?

I-24 runs through Nashville and involves a bit of Illinois and Kentucky, and into Georgia. I-44 cuts diagonally across Missouri and is one of the interstates that follows the old heavily traveled U.S. 66 route. Neither existed in the 1940s. The Interstate system was an Eisenhower project begun in the 1950s. When my family was moving from the Chicago area to Dallas at the end of 1964, I-44 wasn't finished yet. I remember my father exclaiming in frustration that they call the good roads 44 nd the bad road 66.

Yes, that would have been a screw up, like having modern-style football goalposts in movies set in the 1960s.

tebman
04-19-2013, 10:44 AM
Yes, that would have been a screw up, like having modern-style football goalposts in movies set in the 1960s.

Reminds me of this image from the movie "Good Night and Good Luck," which is about Edward R. Murrow's news broadcasts in the early 1950s. Take a look and see if you can see what doesn't belong in 1954 (answer in white below the picture)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aEW5haQfLL4/TazLOo8Rk5I/AAAAAAAAAD0/uxjMOh16pJs/s320/23luck.1.650.jpg

Plastic water bottle

I read about the tens of millions of dollars that are spent making a movie and wonder sometimes if any of that money was spent learning about the story they're telling. :scratch:

jdm2662
04-19-2013, 10:52 AM
Reminds me of this image from the movie "Good Night and Good Luck," which is about Edward R. Murrow's news broadcasts in the early 1950s. Take a look and see if you can see what doesn't belong in 1954 (answer in white below the picture)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aEW5haQfLL4/TazLOo8Rk5I/AAAAAAAAAD0/uxjMOh16pJs/s320/23luck.1.650.jpg



I read about the tens of millions of dollars that are spent making a movie and wonder sometimes if any of that money was spent learning about the story they're telling. :scratch:

Nice catch. I didn't catch it. I did catch when Forest Gump was playing ping pong in the gym, we saw the college three point line. That didn't exist until the mid-80s...

Red Barchetta
04-20-2013, 07:29 PM
I-24 runs through Nashville and involves a bit of Illinois and Kentucky, and into Georgia. I-44 cuts diagonally across Missouri and is one of the interstates that follows the old heavily traveled U.S. 66 route. Neither existed in the 1940s. The Interstate system was an Eisenhower project begun in the 1950s. When my family was moving from the Chicago area to Dallas at the end of 1964, I-44 wasn't finished yet. I remember my father exclaiming in frustration that they call the good roads 44 nd the bad road 66.

Yes, that would have been a screw up, like having modern-style football goalposts in movies set in the 1960s.

Or that horrible baseball movie "Rookie of the Year" with the kid who gets surgery on his arm and then pitches for Gary Busey and the Chicago Cubs.

I remember one scene where a left handed batter clearly pulls a pitched ball and the next shot is the 3rd baseman diving for the ball down the left field line. :scratch:

DumpJerry
04-20-2013, 09:06 PM
Or that horrible baseball movie "Rookie of the Year" with the kid who gets surgery on his arm and then pitches for Gary Busey and the Chicago Cubs.

I remember one scene where a left handed batter clearly pulls a pitched ball and the next shot is the 3rd baseman diving for the ball down the left field line. :scratch:
The wind was blowing right to left......