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Lip Man 1
04-04-2013, 06:48 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-chicago-white-sox-robin-ventura-sacrifice-bunt-20130404,0,1877710.story

Lip

Zakath
04-04-2013, 07:03 PM
That might have been nice today, had de Aza bunted in the third when we had 1st and 3rd and 1 out instead of GIDP'ing.

Kind of knew it was not going to be a good day at that point...

BigKlu59
04-04-2013, 07:12 PM
That might have been nice today, had de Aza bunted in the third when we had 1st and 3rd and 1 out instead of GIDP'ing.

Kind of knew it was not going to be a good day at that point...

Brilliant minds think alike.. That was the perfect time to push one.

BK59

shingo10
04-05-2013, 03:14 PM
Nothing wrong with what Robin is saying here. It's the manager's job to know his players and know the situations. It would be ridiculous to say either "bunt all the time" or "don't ever bunt."

Still waiting for the A's to win their world series with the no bunt philosophy...

doublem23
04-05-2013, 03:16 PM
Still waiting for the A's to win their world series with the no bunt philosophy...

I'm sure it has everything to do with their no bunt philosophy and nothing to to with their historically miniscule payrolls.

RKMeibalane
04-05-2013, 06:52 PM
Nothing wrong with what Robin is saying here. It's the manager's job to know his players and know the situations. It would be ridiculous to say either "bunt all the time" or "don't ever bunt."

Still waiting for the A's to win their world series with the no bunt philosophy...

I don't remember the 1989 A's bunting that much, and they won the World Series.

TDog
04-05-2013, 07:43 PM
I don't remember the 1989 A's bunting that much, and they won the World Series.

You probably aren't suggesting that Tony LaRussa disdained bunting. It's true that that A's team in 1989 was credited with fewer sacrfices than Felix Fermin and most of the teams in the American League that year. But the 1989 A's ended up with 50 percent more bunts than the 2012 White Sox.

Most managers bunt more than their teams' fans would like. But managers are in a position where they do what they believe they need to do to win, regardless of abstract theory. I think that's what Ventura was saying in the article.

RKMeibalane
04-05-2013, 07:50 PM
You probably aren't suggesting that Tony LaRussa disdained bunting. It's true that that A's team in 1989 was credited with fewer sacrfices than Felix Fermin and most of the teams in the American League that year. But the 1989 A's ended up with 50 percent more bunts than the 2012 White Sox.

Not at all. I was simply pointing out that there have been teams who rarely utilized the bunt, but were successful.

Most managers bunt more than their teams' fans would like. But managers are in a position where they do what they believe they need to do to win, regardless of abstract theory. I think that's what Ventura was saying in the article.

I agree, and I think Robin must do what he thinks is right in a particular situation, even if it isn't popular with fans or the media. Be that as it may, one would hope that any manager who chooses to bunt has personnel on his team who are capable of executing the bunt properly. I vaguely remember Ozzie Guillen trying to bunt with Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez during Spring Training of 2004 and cringing, because neither was a particularly good bunter.

TDog
04-05-2013, 08:08 PM
Not at all. I was simply pointing out that there have been teams who rarely utilized the bunt, but were successful. ...
I agree, and I think Robin must do what he thinks is right in a particular situation, even if it isn't popular with fans or the media. Be that as it may, one would hope that any manager who chooses to bunt has personnel on his team who are capable of executing the bunt properly. I vaguely remember Ozzie Guillen trying to bunt with Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez during Spring Training of 2004 and cringing, because neither was a particularly good bunter.

By today;s standards, the 1989 A's actually bunted a lot, especially when you consider that this A's team was already into the steroids era.

I don't have any problem with power hitters bunting in spring training games. Really, that's the sort of thing spring training games are for.

RKMeibalane
04-05-2013, 08:15 PM
By today;s standards, the 1989 A's actually bunted a lot, especially when you consider that this A's team was already into the steroids era.

Beyond Canseco and McGwire, that A's team featured a number of light-hitting players (Carney Lansford, Mike Gallego, Walt Weiss, etc.) who were asked to bunt to move runners over until the A's power came up, so it's not surprising that they bunted a fair amount. Not everyone on that team was cheating, just a select few who've chosen not to talk about the past, unless they stand to profit from it by selling books.

I don't have any problem with power hitters bunting in spring training games. Really, that's the sort of thing spring training games are for.

I'm okay with it if a manager actually plans to do it during the regular season and wants each of his players to practice the skill, but Ozzie never asked either man to do so in a regular season game, partly because neither could stay in the lineup.

shingo10
04-05-2013, 09:44 PM
I'm sure it has everything to do with their no bunt philosophy and nothing to to with their historically miniscule payrolls.


If they wouldn't have made a movie about their no bunt philosophy I'd just leave it alone but the whole moneyball thing gave them what? One playoff series win? Just saying that having the mindset of either "bunt all the time" or "never bunt" is wrong. Depends on situations, players, ect. Just what Robin was saying.

WhiteSox5187
04-06-2013, 10:56 AM
Not at all. I was simply pointing out that there have been teams who rarely utilized the bunt, but were successful.



I agree, and I think Robin must do what he thinks is right in a particular situation, even if it isn't popular with fans or the media. Be that as it may, one would hope that any manager who chooses to bunt has personnel on his team who are capable of executing the bunt properly. I vaguely remember Ozzie Guillen trying to bunt with Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez during Spring Training of 2004 and cringing, because neither was a particularly good bunter.

I seem to recall at some point Manuel tried to have Thomas bunt during a game. If a manager is having power guys bunt during Spring Training, I have no problem with that. Spring Training is a good time to try crazy ideas because what the hell, if it works maybe it can work in a real game.

CoopaLoop
04-06-2013, 12:05 PM
I seem to recall at some point Manuel tried to have Thomas bunt during a game. If a manager is having power guys bunt during Spring Training, I have no problem with that. Spring Training is a good time to try crazy ideas because what the hell, if it works maybe it can work in a real game.

http://media.tumblr.com/a2b00fadba844f9890efdab45508ee71/tumblr_inline_mk88a4AbAI1qz4rgp.gif
How about middle of the order power guys never bunt ever unless it's beating a shift with nobody on base.

johnny_mostil
04-06-2013, 07:42 PM
I'm sure it has everything to do with their no bunt philosophy and nothing to to with their historically miniscule payrolls.

That, and they actually do bunt, if only about once a week.

RKMeibalane
04-06-2013, 08:04 PM
I seem to recall at some point Manuel tried to have Thomas bunt during a game. If a manager is having power guys bunt during Spring Training, I have no problem with that. Spring Training is a good time to try crazy ideas because what the hell, if it works maybe it can work in a real game.

Jerry "The Tinkerer" Manuel tried any number of things that didn't work, and then he kept doing them, all the while admitting that he knew they didn't work. But, hey, Buehrle starting at Yankee Stadium was a bigger deal for him than it was for the White Sox as a whole.

FielderJones
04-06-2013, 08:22 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eD2ucgyyjqI/UVl_sYwuZZI/AAAAAAAAA2E/o09LvX6-S1M/s1600/opening2013.jpg

RKMeibalane
04-06-2013, 08:48 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eD2ucgyyjqI/UVl_sYwuZZI/AAAAAAAAA2E/o09LvX6-S1M/s1600/opening2013.jpg

The guy with the turtleneck is jeremyb1. :cool: