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Viva Magglio
07-31-2002, 04:26 PM
He was moved to the Red Sox for a pair of unnamed minor leaguers.

Soxheads
07-31-2002, 04:27 PM
Awww, damn.

kevingrt
07-31-2002, 04:29 PM
What's wrong, HR Howry will do better in a lefty friendly park

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2002, 04:32 PM
Watch out!

Embree and Howry in the same bullpen.

LMAO!!!

Soxheads
07-31-2002, 04:35 PM
We got 2 minor leaguers.

delben91
07-31-2002, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
We got 2 minor leaguers.

Any info on who?

Kilroy
07-31-2002, 04:38 PM
This is starting to get ridiculous. he's trading players just to be trading.

We're ****ed.

kevingrt
07-31-2002, 04:39 PM
I agree Kilroy , but he's dealing the right players...

MarkEdward
07-31-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Watch out!

Embree and Howry in the same bullpen.

LMAO!!!


Actually, Embree's been one of the 30 best relievers in the league this year. Howry was probably the Sox best reliever this year (I'm using Baseball Prospectus' ARP stat), but he is replaceable.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-31-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
I agree Kilroy , but he's dealing the right players...

:crede :manos :hitless
"You're joking, right?"

No-Neck
07-31-2002, 04:42 PM
with Howry, he's dumping a large salary in 2003. This might be a good thing. Gascan is history :walk
I'm still a Sox

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Actually, Embree's been one of the 30 best relievers in the league this year. Howry was probably the Sox best reliever this year (I'm using Baseball Prospectus' ARP stat), but he is replaceable.

Both have pitched better, but I can't see Howry or Embree pitching lights out in the playoffs.

Jjav829
07-31-2002, 04:54 PM
The names are in.

The Red Sox acquired reliever Bobby Howry from the Chicago White Sox for minor league pitchers Frankie Francisco and Byeong Hak An, who were pitching in Single-A Sarasota.

Working out of the White Sox pen, Howry had a 3.91 ERA in 50 2/3 innings this season. Howry has closer experience, getting 28 saves for the White Sox in 1999.

spaz
07-31-2002, 04:56 PM
The minor leaguer's are both from the red sox single a club

they are Frankie Francisco and Byeong Hak An. good luck finding their stats!

MarkEdward
07-31-2002, 04:56 PM
Anybody know whom the Sox have brought up? Almonte? Vining?

TheBigHurt
07-31-2002, 04:58 PM
im not complaining!!!!!! :D:

rmusacch
07-31-2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
The names are in.



Where did you get that info. I have not seen it anywhere. I hate to see him go. He seems like a nice guy and was starting to pitch well.

Jjav829
07-31-2002, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


Where did you get that info. I have not seen it anywhere. I hate to see him go. He seems like a nice guy and was starting to pitch well.

It's on ESPN. Here (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0731/1412380.html) The second story.

Jjav829
07-31-2002, 05:01 PM
Their stats:

An:
Florida State League» Sarasota Red Sox 04/06 to 06/22
W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
2 7 0 5.82 15 68.0 75 50 44 25 39 8
----
Francisco
Florida State League» Sarasota Red Sox 05/13 to 06/24
W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
1 1 0 1.95 10 27.2 17 9 6 11 32 0

Eastern League» Trenton Thunder 04/06 to 05/06
W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
2 2 0 5.63 9 16.0 10 13 10 16 18 0

doublem23
07-31-2002, 05:04 PM
According to www.minorleaguebaseball.com...

FRANKIE FRANCISCO....

R/R, 6'2'', 179 lbs.
1-1, 10 G, 1.95 ERA, 27.2 IP, 17 H, 9 R, 9 ER, 11 BB, 32 K, 0 HR
(Stats for Sarasota Red Sox, 5/13-6/24)

BYEONG AN...

L/L, 6'2'', 190 lbs.
2-7, 15 G, 5.82 ERA, 68.0 IP, 75 H, 50 R, 44 ER, 25 BB, 39 K, 8 HR
(Stats for Sarasota Red Sox, 4/06-6/22)

DrCrawdad
07-31-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
According to www.minorleaguebaseball.com...

FRANKIE FRANCISCO....

R/R, 6'2'', 179 lbs.
1-1, 10 G, 1.95 ERA, 27.2 IP, 17 H, 9 R, 9 ER, 11 BB, 32 K, 0 HR
(Stats for Sarasota Red Sox, 5/13-6/24)

BYEONG AN...

L/L, 6'2'', 190 lbs.
2-7, 15 G, 5.82 ERA, 68.0 IP, 75 H, 50 R, 44 ER, 25 BB, 39 K, 8 HR
(Stats for Sarasota Red Sox, 4/06-6/22)

F. Franciso - 24 yrs. old.
B. An - 22 yrs. old.

34 Inch Stick
07-31-2002, 05:11 PM
I would love to assume the best but I think you understand my pessimism.

At the very least with these trades Kenny is adding to the diversity of the organization. We have Dominican's, Southerners, Koreans (I'm assuming An is) and who knows what else. If they all end up sucking, Chairman Jerry can demolish Comiskey and build a new "Small World" ride.

NUCatsFan
07-31-2002, 05:12 PM
Yippee...we picked up two more minor league pitchers. Why not pick up some freakin fielders?!?

hold2dibber
07-31-2002, 05:20 PM
This appears to me to be a salary dump. Howry will earn $1.6 mm next year. And check out the following list of guys who realistically could earn a spot on an 11 or 12 man pitching staff next year:

1. Buehrle
2. Garland
3. Ritchie
4. Wright
5. Glover
6. Biddle
7. Ginter
8. Foulke
9. Marte
10. Rauch
11. Parque
12. Wunsch
13. Almonte
14. Barcelo
15. Simas
16. Kieshnick
17. Adkins (Ha!)

My point is, we have a surplus of arms that are at or near major league ready, and KW probably thinks he can get just as good production out of Glover/Ginter/Biddle/Simas as they'd get out of Howry but for much less $. That said, I like Howry, always have. He's not great, but he is a solid middle reliever, who, at times can be dominant. He has his lapses, but so do all pitchers. He's better than average and yet we didn't seem to get squat for him. I sure would be happier if we had pulled off the rumored Howry for Gagne deal before the season!

danman31
07-31-2002, 05:20 PM
Francisco sucked at double A and got demoted to advanced A, where he is dominating. Unfortunately I think he is a career minor leaguer because a 24 year old that can't play AA isn't going anywhere. As for An, I don't know.

Daver
07-31-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
This appears to me to be a salary dump. Howry will earn $1.6 mm next year. And check out the following list of guys who realistically could earn a spot on an 11 or 12 man pitching staff next year:

1. Buehrle
2. Garland
3. Ritchie
4. Wright
5. Glover
6. Biddle
7. Ginter
8. Foulke
9. Marte
10. Rauch
11. Parque
12. Wunsch
13. Almonte
14. Barcelo
15. Simas
16. Kieshnick
17. Adkins (Ha!)

My point is, we have a surplus of arms that are at or near major league ready, and KW probably thinks he can get just as good production out of Glover/Ginter/Biddle/Simas as they'd get out of Howry but for much less $. That said, I like Howry, always have. He's not great, but he is a solid middle reliever, who, at times can be dominant. He has his lapses, but so do all pitchers. He's better than average and yet we didn't seem to get squat for him. I sure would be happier if we had pulled off the rumored Howry for Gagne deal before the season!

You can scratch Barcelo off that list......

PaleHoseGeorge
07-31-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by NUCatsFan
Yippee...we picked up two more minor league pitchers. Why not pick up some freakin fielders?!?

Quick!

Somebody tell me how many of these "prospects" and "young talents" have progressed beyond "A" ball? Of that sub-set, how many haven't already had arm trouble?

If you haven't made it to at least Advanced-A, your chances of ever making the Show are very, very small.

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/images/Caruso.jpg
"PHG rests his case!"

Bob Howry was arguably the most valuable piece left from the six-player White Flag trade. Figures we would dump him five years after we dumped somebody else to acquire him. This outfit is beyond pathetic...

Anybody here still think we're building towards a future championship? If so, you need clinical help.

Chisox353014
07-31-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Anybody here still think we're building towards a future championship? If so, you need clinical help.

I'm trying to figure out exactly what we are building here. Judging by the last week or so, I think what we're buliding would look something like the house the townspeople built Ned Flanders on "The Simpsons".

34rancher
07-31-2002, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Quick!

Somebody tell me how many of these "prospects" and "young talents" have progressed beyond "A" ball? Of that sub-set, how many haven't already had arm trouble?

If you haven't made it to at least Advanced-A, your chances of ever making the Show are very, very small.

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/images/Caruso.jpg
"PHG rests his case!"

Bob Howry was arguably the most valuable piece left from the six-player White Flag trade. Figures we would dump him five years after we dumped somebody else to acquire him. This outfit is beyond pathetic...

Anybody here still think we're building towards a future championship? If so, you need clinical help.


I might argue that Foulke was the most valuable.

Daver
07-31-2002, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by 34rancher



I might argue that Foulke was the most valuable.

Actually Caruso was the heart of that deal,but Schueler ruined that by rushing him to the MLB club to show some result from the trade and ruined his confidence,instead of letting him develop in the minors and work on his game.

LongDistanceFan
07-31-2002, 05:59 PM
some been saying that that francisco kid is 24, according to BA he is 21.

Tragg
07-31-2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
This appears to me to be a salary dump. Howry will earn $1.6 mm next year.

1.6MM is more than we can afford? I might buy that salary stuff IFF he didn't pay Royce Clayton 4.5 million to come here and ruin this team.

All these minor league pitchers is just peachy. We've had a minor league system stuffed with pitchers for 10+ years. What do we do with them?

Meanwhile, we have no SS, we remain extraordinarily thin in the outfield. Same weaknesses, new minor league faces.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-31-2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by 34rancher
I might argue that Foulke was the most valuable.

Overall, yes. However, based on the last 3 months, I would argue it's Howry. The guy was coming off arm surgery and has adapted. Foulke appears to be going nowhere fast. Manuel doesn't trust him in save situations anymore.

LongDistanceFan
07-31-2002, 06:04 PM
should see him go bye bye during the summer

Mathew
07-31-2002, 06:05 PM
We can watch Caruso play in Omaha or whatever, I wouldn't say we're thin in the outfield, SS is of course a no-brainer.

Tragg
07-31-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge



Bob Howry was arguably the most valuable piece left from the six-player White Flag trade. Figures we would dump him five years after we dumped somebody else to acquire him. This outfit is beyond pathetic...

Anybody here still think we're building towards a future championship? If so, you need clinical help.

But why give Howry away? Is it simply a matter of if someone wants him, Kenny Williams just hands him over. And if the player was initially acquired by Kenny williams, he demands a bit more (Lofton).

I think the free agent to be Cliff Floyd garnedered a tad bit more than the free agent to be Ray durham, as we were told "Rent a players" had no value in today's market: Boston's top pitching prospect v. nothing.

34rancher
07-31-2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Overall, yes. However, based on the last 3 months, I would argue it's Howry. The guy was coming off arm surgery and has adapted. Foulke appears to be going nowhere fast. Manuel doesn't trust him in save situations anymore.

But remember, players don't win championships, organizations do, , therefore Schueler and JR were the best things out of that trade.

hold2dibber
07-31-2002, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Overall, yes. However, based on the last 3 months, I would argue it's Howry. The guy was coming off arm surgery and has adapted. Foulke appears to be going nowhere fast. Manuel doesn't trust him in save situations anymore.

I don't trust Manuel's judgment as to who is valuable - after all, he has never really wavered in his support for Royce.

In any event, the Sox seem to be continuing with their organizational philosophy of stocking the minor league system with arms, any arms. This philosophy will work if only (1) the arms are good arms connected to heads that know how to pitch and/or (2) the club's GM is wise enough to use those arms to make trades to fill other needs. At this point, I am less than optimistic that either is the case.

The ONLY way this team becomes a contender in the next few years, is if several of our young pitchers crank it up several notches and become very good MLB pitchers. If Garland quickly turns into Freddy Garcia and Wright turns into Kevin Brown and Biddle turns into Matt Morris, then we'll be really good. If they don't, we could be really, really bad. Don Cooper - our fate rests in your hands.

RedPinStripes
07-31-2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by 34rancher


But remember, players don't win championships, organizations do, , therefore Schueler and JR were the best things out of that trade.


HA!

Tragg
07-31-2002, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I don't trust Manuel's judgment as to who is valuable - after all, he has never really wavered in his support for Royce.

In any event, the Sox seem to be continuing with their organizational philosophy of stocking the minor league system with arms, any arms. This philosophy will work if only (1) the arms are good arms connected to heads that know how to pitch and/or (2) the club's GM is wise enough to use those arms to make trades to fill other needs. At this point, I am less than optimistic that either is the case.

The ONLY way this team becomes a contender in the next few years, is if several of our young pitchers crank it up several notches and become very good MLB pitchers. If Garland quickly turns into Freddy Garcia and Wright turns into Kevin Brown and Biddle turns into Matt Morris, then we'll be really good. If they don't, we could be really, really bad. Don Cooper - our fate rests in your hands.

Can't argue with that, although I can't tell whether JM plays players based on who he thinks should play , or on who he thinks KW thinks should be playing.
Remember, his goal is to keep his job. One way is to win. That's not happening. Pleasing KW may be way #2.

DrCrawdad
07-31-2002, 06:57 PM
Official account of the deal. (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20020731&content_id=93416&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

Tragg
07-31-2002, 07:01 PM
Thanks for the link Crawdad. I notice that KW is already getting his alibis lined up: "Our scouts Bill Young and Larry Maxie could not be happier to get these two guys in our system,"

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
But why give Howry away? Is it simply a matter of if someone wants him, Kenny Williams just hands him over.

I think the free agent to be Cliff Floyd garnedered a tad bit more than the free agent to be Ray durham, as we were told "Rent a players" had no value in today's market: Boston's top pitching prospect v. nothing.

The Trib made note of the fact that Howry makes 3.2 million next year. Looks like they just wanted to get his salary out of here.

The Durham deal was bad, yes. Floyd is a better player than Ray, and he unlike Durham can make an impact. Throw in the fact that the Yankees got in on the bidding to. The A's were in on it as well, but Floyd wouldn't go there. So Floyd had 3 teams after him, Ray had one. Not a whole lot of leverage for Williams.

Tragg
07-31-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


The A's were in on it as well, but Floyd wouldn't go there. So Floyd had 3 teams after him, Ray had one. Not a whole lot of leverage for Williams.

Then he should have waited, instead of pulling the trigger 5 days before the deadline. And if nobody took him, so what? He isn't saving that much money anyway. And hell he probably could have just waived him and someone would have probably claimed him taking ALL remaining salary.
There was no reason to make that deal as best i can tell.
And while I realize that Shuey is better this year than Howry, the Tribe got one TOP high level prospect and another solid prospect. for Shuey. We got 2 A ball players with marginal upsides.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
There was no reason to make that deal as best i can tell.
And while I realize that Shuey is better this year than Howry, the Tribe got one TOP high level prospect and another solid prospect. for Shuey. We got 2 A ball players with marginal upsides.

They just wanted his salary off the books, the Sox are run by boobs.

Dan Evans is killing the Dodgers with every trade he makes. I'd rather see Williams make deals like this then trading our prospects.

hold2dibber
07-31-2002, 07:24 PM
It sounds like these guys might be half way decent prospects. About what you'd expect for Howry, I suppose. Still, I'd be surprised if either of these guys ever becomes as good as Howry currently is.

And it still looks like the least KW got in any of these deals is Adkins, who was traded for the guy most likely to actually help his team get to the post season. :angry:

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-31-2002, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
He was moved to the Red Sox for a pair of unnamed minor leaguers.

Why can't we trade Roycie for a couple of minor leaguers

Daver
07-31-2002, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


They just wanted his salary off the books, the Sox are run by boobs.

Dan Evans is killing the Dodgers with every trade he makes. I'd rather see Williams make deals like this then trading our prospects.

He is making one of the worst farm systems in baseball into a vast wasteland of talentless career minor leaguers to be honest.

LongDistanceFan
07-31-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Why can't we trade Roycie for a couple of minor leaguers

he is bad for team chemistry. :D: :gulp:

Tragg
07-31-2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


They just wanted his salary off the books, the Sox are run by boobs.

Dan Evans is killing the Dodgers with every trade he makes. I'd rather see Williams make deals like this then trading our prospects.

I agree with that - except that HE DID trade away two of our top pitching prospects, let's not forget.

Daver
07-31-2002, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Why can't we trade Roycie for a couple of minor leaguers

KW tried to trade Royce to Atlanta for an A ball pitcher,and pick up half his salary for the remainder of the year,and was turned down.

LongDistanceFan
07-31-2002, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel




but tragg is right, let him walk. it would've been better.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
And it still looks like the least KW got in any of these deals is Adkins, who was traded for the guy most likely to actually help his team get to the post season. :angry:

A's have not been to hot since they got Ray. 2-4 to be exact. Still 4.5 back in the West, 3.5 back in the wild card.

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND
Why can't we trade Roycie for a couple of minor leaguers

No team wants him. Every executive knows he's a cancer in the clubhouse.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I agree with that - except that HE DID trade away two of our top pitching prospects, let's not forget.

Don't remind me! :)

TornLabrum
07-31-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014


I'm trying to figure out exactly what we are building here. Judging by the last week or so, I think what we're buliding would look something like the house the townspeople built Ned Flanders on "The Simpsons".

Remember the episode with the monorail? This is the "Escalator to Nowhere." :angry: :angry:

doublem23
07-31-2002, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
We can watch Caruso play in Omaha or whatever, I wouldn't say we're thin in the outfield, SS is of course a no-brainer.

Just having guys who know how to play in the outfield doesn't make you strong there.

Who's any good after Maggs and Borchard?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-31-2002, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


Remember the episode with the monorail?

:KW
"Donuts. Is there anything they can't do???"

doublem23
07-31-2002, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


They just wanted his salary off the books, the Sox are run by boobs.

Dan Evans is killing the Dodgers with every trade he makes. I'd rather see Williams make deals like this then trading our prospects.

Thank you, JM. Unless Evans continues to get extraordinarily lucky, the Dodgers are going to crash and burn in the not too distant future.

And that unlimited Fox money for payroll helps... just a little.

doublem23
07-31-2002, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Why can't we trade Roycie for a couple of minor leaguers

No one else is stupid enough to grab that buffoon.

:hitless
Man, I'm one of the greatest shortstops ever. I don't have to take batting practice like the peons.

Mathew
07-31-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Just having guys who know how to play in the outfield doesn't make you strong there.

Who's any good after Maggs and Borchard?

I'm in the Lee camp so I'd my answear is simple. Don't be alarmed I not saying HOF Rowand is what gives us strength there. Rowand is a bung untill a CF is possible, be it Borchard or another, granted not the best but of our holes I don't feel OF will be one of the top 2.

rmusacch
07-31-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by daver


He is making one of the worst farm systems in baseball into a vast wasteland of talentless career minor leaguers to be honest.

Who, Evans or Williams?

Daver
07-31-2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


Who, Evans or Williams?

Evans,he has no clue when it comes to minor league talent.
But he does have that Fox budget to back him up.

baggio202
07-31-2002, 10:30 PM
kenny williams really is an idiot...can someone explain why he gave howry a 2 year 3 .2 million dollar contract when he wasnt even in the league 3 seasons yet???....he was only making 375k in '01...so lets give him 3 million so we have to dump that contract the next season....if howry went to arbitration what would he have made???...double his 375 to 750???...maybe less than that with his poor stats last year...we were paying him 1.2 million of that 3.2 this year so we pissed away about somewhere in the neighborhood of 500k...1.2 minus 750k...

brilliant move KW...

LongDistanceFan
07-31-2002, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by daver


KW tried to trade Royce to Atlanta for an A ball pitcher,and pick up half his salary for the remainder of the year,and was turned down.

when was this

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-31-2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
kenny williams really is an idiot...can someone explain why he gave howry a 2 year 3 .2 million dollar contract when he wasnt even in the league 3 seasons yet???....he was only making 375k in '01...so lets give him 3 million so we have to dump that contract the next season....if howry went to arbitration what would he have made???...double his 375 to 750???...maybe less than that with his poor stats last year...we were paying him 1.2 million of that 3.2 this year so we pissed away about somewhere in the neighborhood of 500k...1.2 minus 750k...

brilliant move KW...

You really expect KW to do anything intelligent? Come on now we all should be used to his utter stupidity by now.

LongDistanceFan
07-31-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by daver


Evans,he has no clue when it comes to minor league talent.
But he does have that Fox budget to back him up.

evans, like bos is emptying their farm for the run this yr. i am still confuse with the talent he is giving up. however, if he is depending on next yr fa's, there are very capable players to get.

i think he is going on this assumption. but it still baffles me.

DrCrawdad
08-01-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
I notice that KW is already getting his alibis lined up: "Our scouts Bill Young and Larry Maxie could not be happier to get these two guys in our system,"

Are these the same two scouts who last year recommended Onanism Masaoka?

duke of dorwood
08-01-2002, 11:00 AM
And after all this, we simply do not have enough MAJOR league talent to fill a roster.

DrCrawdad
08-01-2002, 11:10 AM
Last year KW was saying that this guy was a great pick-up for Baldwin.

Baldwin is still in MLB and contributing. Hell, JB is pitching better than Ritchie and JB makes less money!

Paulwny
08-01-2002, 11:16 AM
Part of an article in the Boston Globe:

Numerous teams came calling for Fossum and third baseman Shea Hillenbrand, and while the Sox dealt away six pitching prospects in the last five weeks to acquire Embree, Floyd, and Howry, they traded from what Port called ''a developmental surplus.'' The Sox were happy, he said, that they did not have to include lefthanded prospects Phil Dumatrait or Jorge de la Rosa in either deal, and also were able to hold on to Anastacio Martinez, Josh Hancock, and local prospect Manny Delcarmen.

''The one you have to close your eyes and swallow hard on is Francisco,'' said assistant GM Theo Epstein of the righthander who has potential closer stuff.

steff
08-01-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by daver


Actually Caruso was the heart of that deal,but Schueler ruined that by rushing him to the MLB club to show some result from the trade and ruined his confidence,instead of letting him develop in the minors and work on his game.

Actually.. Mike was his own worst enemy. I saw first hand his "bad habits" ( :gulp: among others). He thought he was the ***** because he was on a MLB team (worse than most others). He was easily equal to how Kobe reacted to being in the NBA (the smarta$$ cockeyness, etc..). The difference is that Kobe is actually good at what he does..

DrCrawdad
08-01-2002, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Part of an article in the Boston Globe:

''The one you have to close your eyes and swallow hard on is Francisco,'' said assistant GM Theo Epstein of the righthander who has potential closer stuff.


I hope that among the guys the Sox have received recently that there are a couple who contribute to the Sox.


:gulp:

DrCrawdad
08-01-2002, 11:51 AM
For what it's worth I've found one Carmine Hose fan who is not sure they won the trade:

Wow--Francisco and An are decent prospects. Francisco throws really hard. He was being groomed as a reliever, but got off to a bad start this year and moved into the rotation, where he did better. An, a lefty, got off to a great start in Augusta last season, but had a rough second half, and hasn't been good this year. Still, both pitchers have some potential. I'm not shedding tears over their losses, and Howry should help the pen, but he's nothing special.

Not sure I like this one. Then again, I blasted the Mirabelli and Embree deals, so take it with a grain of salt. And we got Floyd, so it's been a nice week.

-Bismo.

Randar68
08-01-2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by steff3603


Actually.. Mike was his own worst enemy. I saw first hand his "bad habits" ( :gulp: among others). He thought he was the ***** because he was on a MLB team (worse than most others). He was easily equal to how Kobe reacted to being in the NBA (the smarta$$ cockeyness, etc..). The difference is that Kobe is actually good at what he does..

I have first-hand accounts of some of his OTHER bad habits....


puff...puff....

And, I'm not talking about the occational recreational action....

steff
08-01-2002, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I have first-hand accounts of some of his OTHER bad habits....

puff...puff....

And, I'm not talking about the occational recreational action....


To be "blunt"... I completely understand what you're saying :D:
And daily, too. How in the hell he functioned at all is a mystery in itself.

Randar68
08-01-2002, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by steff3603



To be "blunt"... I completely understand what you're saying :D:
And daily, too. How in the hell he functioned at all is a mystery in itself.

My sentiments exactly.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-01-2002, 12:18 PM
The only good reason Ron Schueler brought Caruso north from spring training, 1998 was to justify the White Flag Trade of the previous summer. He wanted to show off his "centerpiece", especially after his boss, the chairman, stuck his foot in his mouth (for the millionth time) calling Sox Fans crazy.

Caruso was an A-ball player. I have serious doubts he would ever have made the major leagues without Schueler pushing him. As several others have noted, his work ethic sucked and he spent a lot time getting stupid away from the ballpark.

His intelligence was called into question on several occasions, too. The funniest quote came from Manuel. When told Caruso had just had his wisdom teeth pulled, Manuel replied, "Oh no, those were the good ones!"

Jerry does have his moments...

:)

DrCrawdad
08-01-2002, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by steff3603



To be "blunt"... I completely understand what you're saying :D:
And daily, too. How in the hell he functioned at all is a mystery in itself.

CLR01
08-01-2002, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by daver


KW tried to trade Royce to Atlanta for an A ball pitcher,and pick up half his salary for the remainder of the year,and was turned down.


Then thy should pay his entire salary, hell give them (any team) an extra $500,000 for their troubles.

Randar68
08-01-2002, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by CLR01



Then thy should pay his entire salary, hell give them (any team) an extra $500,000 for their troubles.

Or just waive him and say...buh-bye!

Jjav829
08-01-2002, 02:30 PM
Howry is back! The Sox decided to trade to get him again. :smile:

Howry traded to White Sox for 2 minor leaguers (http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teamtransactions?team=chw)