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View Full Version : What's it going to take to make Sox a consistent playoff team?


mahagga73
02-17-2013, 11:02 AM
This is a question I have often thought of and really have no answer for. It's not like they sit on their hands and don't make a move when they are in contention every year, but the results are always the same, somewhere a little above or below .500 most years recently. Even in 05, they couldn't break out and make the playoffs in 06. I've heard theories about lack of prospects killing team depth late in the season when it is needed and all, but I really have no answer. The main goal of any baseball team should be to make the playoffs on a consistent basis. If you do that, you will win the series eventually in most cases. The Giants, not all that impressive on paper compared to a lot of teams, now have 2 titles in 3 years. The Cardinals are always in the playoffs and have won 2 titles, etc. Interested in what others think, since a lot of you ,I know, are probably smarter about this than I am. I want to see another series before I die.

SephClone89
02-17-2013, 11:19 AM
Overhauling of the draft process (perhaps already taking place), instituting actual organizational philosophies, producing and acquiring players who can get on base above a .300 clip...

LITTLE NELL
02-17-2013, 11:24 AM
More fannies in the ballpark.
More investment in the farm system.
New ownership.

shingo10
02-17-2013, 11:26 AM
I think they were set up after the 2005 season to have a long run of success and it just came down to players not performing. The 2006 team still won 90 games but unfortunately the central was the toughest division in baseball that year. Still had the pitching held up there easily could have been a repeat.

Then in 2007 injuries and a mentally frazzled Contreras did us in (as well as the power arms) and the next couple years were kind of overhauls thrown together with no real longevity.

I think we are off to a good start with this coaching staff who seems to be hammering the fundamentals. Solid pitching and defense will always put you in a good position to win. Now for the hitting...

SoxSpeed22
02-17-2013, 11:30 AM
I will go with consistency in talent. Year after year, the Sox have made a lot of changes, and the only talented guys that they could bring in (besides Buehrle and Konerko) were other teams castoffs/baggage. Examples include Floyd, Edwin Jackson, Rios, Dunn, Peavy etc. Some of these have worked out, but not very consistently. Ramirez was a nice signing, bringing in De Aza gave the team a nice shot in the arm when he was healthy. The trade to bring in Danks was nice, but there were not enough of those.
The Tigers are also guilty of this to an extent, but they were able to get better talents in Cabrera, Fielder, Young and Fister (Verlander was drafted). They were also able to bring in a few young guys to fill positions either from within or that trade that got Jackson there.
The Giants were also guilty of having a lot of bad signings, but they were able to make up for it with strong starting pitching and Buster Posey.
The point is, the Sox need to bring in top-tier talent in important spots. People that other teams would love to build around. They have been doing better with young guys. They had 9 rookies on the roster, the pitchers were solid, until rookie troubles happened, but they give me hope. The coaching needs to be consistent across each minor league level, where they hear the same things, instead of too many things at once. Organizational philosophy was mentioned, and I agree. The young hitters is something they must improve upon. I hope we got that guy in Hawkins, but we will have to see. I've said plenty of things about the farm system in previous posts, but getting solid contributors is also needed.

DSpivack
02-17-2013, 11:42 AM
I will go with consistency in talent. Year after year, the Sox have made a lot of changes, and the only talented guys that they could bring in (besides Buehrle and Konerko) were other teams castoffs/baggage. Examples include Floyd, Edwin Jackson, Rios, Dunn, Peavy etc. Some of these have worked out, but not very consistently. Ramirez was a nice signing, bringing in De Aza gave the team a nice shot in the arm when he was healthy. The trade to bring in Danks was nice, but there were not enough of those.
The Tigers are also guilty of this to an extent, but they were able to get better talents in Cabrera, Fielder, Young and Fister (Verlander was drafted). They were also able to bring in a few young guys to fill positions either from within or that trade that got Jackson there.
The Giants were also guilty of having a lot of bad signings, but they were able to make up for it with strong starting pitching and Buster Posey.
The point is, the Sox need to bring in top-tier talent in important spots. People that other teams would love to build around. They have been doing better with young guys. They had 9 rookies on the roster, the pitchers were solid, until rookie troubles happened, but they give me hope. The coaching needs to be consistent across each minor league level, where they hear the same things, instead of too many things at once. Organizational philosophy was mentioned, and I agree. The young hitters is something they must improve upon. I hope we got that guy in Hawkins, but we will have to see. I've said plenty of things about the farm system in previous posts, but getting solid contributors is also needed.

Overhauling of the draft process (perhaps already taking place), instituting actual organizational philosophies, producing and acquiring players who can get on base above a .300 clip...

I agree with both of these posts. A core group of young talent is the best way to build a team, even if you're the Yankees (and they're having more problems as Jeter, Rivera, et al age). That's how the Sox were a continued success leading up to the strike. That team, however, was built on high draft picks after a few years of losing in the late 80s. I don't think they have luxury of just blowing up the team for a few years and getting talent that way (nor do I think that method works with any regularity), it will require more international investment and better scouting, drafting, and developing young talented players. Hopefully the new CBA will make that more of a reality for the White Sox.

doublem23
02-17-2013, 11:43 AM
Luck

Noneck
02-17-2013, 12:07 PM
A big tv contract. And spending like a drunken sailor.

johnnyg83
02-17-2013, 12:32 PM
A big tv contract. And spending like a drunken sailor.

Sometimes I wish our owner was closer to death without a WS win.

Lip Man 1
02-17-2013, 12:39 PM
Great question...one there isn't an easy answer for. I'd say it's a combination of things:

In no particular order:

1. A better farm system. Getting better prospects regardless of who the agent is, hiring the best scouts and minor league coaches to develop the prospects to reach their potential.

2. Change in organizational attitude. It's not enough anymore to "contend" in a garbage division. Let's talk about contending for the pennant on a regular basis. That requires acquiring talent by any and all means. Getting it in depth to protect against injuries and slumps.

3. Aggressively looking to 'take back' Chicago (as it was in the 1950's). No more of this, "we don't compete with the Cubs nonsense." Of course you do, you are in competition for the casual fans money, not the die hard's. That money goes a long way to getting done the first two points in this post.

4. A new TV contract. It comes open in 2016, now is the time to position the franchise to get the best possible deal.

5. Time for new ownership. This is not a slam at JR, after 20 years of major, serious, poor decisions that cost the franchise dearly on and off the field he has changed many (not all) of his ways...but it's simply the fact that after 31 years the organization has become stale and rigid in it's mindset. Time for new blood, new faces, new ideas.

Lip

Bucky F. Dent
02-17-2013, 01:03 PM
............. better scouting, drafting, and developing young talented players...............

That is the essential element right there.

Daver
02-17-2013, 01:31 PM
Money.

gosox41
02-17-2013, 01:34 PM
This is a question I have often thought of and really have no answer for. It's not like they sit on their hands and don't make a move when they are in contention every year, but the results are always the same, somewhere a little above or below .500 most years recently. Even in 05, they couldn't break out and make the playoffs in 06. I've heard theories about lack of prospects killing team depth late in the season when it is needed and all, but I really have no answer. The main goal of any baseball team should be to make the playoffs on a consistent basis. If you do that, you will win the series eventually in most cases. The Giants, not all that impressive on paper compared to a lot of teams, now have 2 titles in 3 years. The Cardinals are always in the playoffs and have won 2 titles, etc. Interested in what others think, since a lot of you ,I know, are probably smarter about this than I am. I want to see another series before I die.

Build a strong base of talent through the farm system. In terms of making trades, I think Hahn is tkaing the right approach. Stop trading prospects right now unless you are really close. It's one of the ingredients of build a strong farm system (drafting better and player developement are also part of the equation and something that needs to be done more.)

The only trades he should make now are to move vets for prospects...as long as he gets what he considers fair value or better. This team can contend this year, but long term they need a better farm system so they're no longer throwing money away at the Manny Ramirez's of the world when you are close and hoping an overpaid, over the hill vet can help.

The next step is to get people to the games. Something the Sox are working on by reducing prices. More attendence=more money=more opportinity to make your team better.


Bob

MtGrnwdSoxFan
02-17-2013, 01:39 PM
Not wetting their pants in September.

gosox41
02-17-2013, 01:41 PM
Great question...one there isn't an easy answer for. I'd say it's a combination of things:


5. Time for new ownership. This is not a slam at JR, after 20 years of major, serious, poor decisions that cost the franchise dearly on and off the field he has changed many (not all) of his ways...but it's simply the fact that after 31 years the organization has become stale and rigid in it's mindset. Time for new blood, new faces, new ideas.

Lip

I don't mind the mind set or the things have been done. I was more tired of KW's lack of regard the farm system. Loved being aggressive. But aggressive with stupid is not so good.

I like the fact that JR is more hands off when compared to other owners but who will also spend allocate funds to win when they are close. It's more the GM's fault for not allocating the assets correctly than anything.

Quick points:

1. The last couple of years, the team's payroll has ranked higher then where the attendence has ranked. That shows some commitment. He does spend wat he has.

2. While money helps (this is a circular discussion that will never end) it's not the be all end all of winning. It helps to hide mistakes but look at the playoffs the last couple of years and where some of the more recent WS champs have ranked.

3. Whose to say a new owner will be any better. Everyone assumes that a new owner will spend. What if a new owner wants to come in and live off revenue sharing, a decent TV deal, and a low payroll.

Or take the case of Loria in FL. There is a reason he's not selling the team.


Bob

shingo10
02-17-2013, 01:47 PM
Look at a situation like Tampa Bay... I mean how many years in a row did they have a very decent draft pick and eventually all that talent was able to come up and contribute. Not saying the Sox should suck for 10 years just to build a decent club but there is no quick way to do this. It doesn't help when you just spin your wheels however. There seemed like there was no real agenda this offseason so...we'll see I guess.

SCCWS
02-17-2013, 01:49 PM
More fannies in the ballpark.
More investment in the farm system.
New ownership.

That may mean moving to another city. How about the Havana White Sox

WhiteSox5187
02-17-2013, 02:29 PM
People have already come up with a number of good points but I will reiterate what others have already said and that is there needs to be a complete overhaul of organizational philosophy. Usually that means bringing in a new front office but due to Jerry's sense of loyalty (especially to Kenny), I just can't imagine that that will ever happen. I think new ownership is needed, but I hope Hahn can be the change that is needed for the White Sox front office but I am skeptical if his tenure will be much different from Kenny's or if Kenny is completely out of the picture in terms of personnel decisions.

Frater Perdurabo
02-17-2013, 02:34 PM
Better global pro and amateur scouting, better drafting (including spending for talent), and better minor league coaching and player development, will result in a more productive pipeline of talent flowing to the major league club. With better talent flowing in when it is young and cheap, the Sox then won't have to pay high prices (in dollars and/or prospects) for mediocre veterans to fill holes, and therefore will have the financial resources to keep the best of their homegrown talent, and sign top-tier free agents when appropriate.

Lip Man 1
02-17-2013, 04:56 PM
Gosox 41:

Well the ownership question is a moot point because sooner or later JR is going to be out of the picture and based on the latest information that he himself has made public in print and on TV, no one in his family wants to take over when he is gone.

It's going to come regardless and we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Daver's point is also very, very valid. Money. Money solves a ton of problems, can buy your way out of a lot of situations.

I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.

Lip

DumpJerry
02-17-2013, 05:12 PM
Getting rid of Mullet Night.

slavko
02-17-2013, 05:28 PM
Gosox 41:

Well the ownership question is a moot point because sooner or later JR is going to be out of the picture and based on the latest information that he himself has made public in print and on TV, no one in his family wants to take over when he is gone.

It's going to come regardless and we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Daver's point is also very, very valid. Money. Money solves a ton of problems, can buy your way out of a lot of situations.

I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.

Lip

What gives JR the right to name his successor? Isn't his ownership percentage about 20%? Can't the other partners choose a new managing partner at any time? They're not the North Korea White Sox, are they?

Lip Man 1
02-17-2013, 07:00 PM
Slavko:

Actually JR's ownership percentage has reportedly been listed at 5% or so but that is still enough for him to be in day to day control as per agreement with the other owners for putting together the original deal to buy the club from Bill Veeck.

Because he is in day to day control (which is also written into his contract by the way which states he can do as he wishes without having to consult the other minority owners on baseball matters) he has the right to sell to whom he chooses to first before any other individual or company can get involved.

Lip

SephClone89
02-17-2013, 07:30 PM
I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.

You could literally say this about any club in literally any team sport.

russ99
02-17-2013, 08:18 PM
This is easy. Commitment to win. In all areas. Not commitment to break even, not pay for amateur talent, not pay for a good farm system, not pay for the best players.

What sucks is that we were there in 2006, and even though we didn't make the playoffs, ownership should have kept the post 2005 commitment to get back to the Series like Arte Moreno did in Anaheim.

2007 was an epic fail for a lack of "50 cents" and the franchise went backward rather than forward.

2006 proved that the fans will fill the park for a winner, and Jerry quit on those fans.

doublem23
02-17-2013, 10:38 PM
2006 proved that the fans will fill the park for a winner, and Jerry quit on those fans.

So then what does 2012 prove?

The amount of finger pointing and whining in this thread is really, really pathetic. You know what it takes to be a consistent playoff team? Just get good players.

gosox41
02-17-2013, 11:10 PM
People have already come up with a number of good points but I will reiterate what others have already said and that is there needs to be a complete overhaul of organizational philosophy. Usually that means bringing in a new front office but due to Jerry's sense of loyalty (especially to Kenny), I just can't imagine that that will ever happen. I think new ownership is needed, but I hope Hahn can be the change that is needed for the White Sox front office but I am skeptical if his tenure will be much different from Kenny's or if Kenny is completely out of the picture in terms of personnel decisions.

I have to disagree. Imagine you're Rick Hahn. Teams have been after you the last 3-4 yrs to be the GM, heck he even turned other teams down. But why? he'd had multiple oppprtunities to have his dream job of running an organization. Why turn that chance down (even with a team like the Pirates) to be a puppet for Kenny Williams? There's no reason to if he takes pride in what he does. I'm sure he wants to create his own legacy and if he is being honest with himself, he wouldn't take a job in title only if he couldn't do what he wants.

Based on what I readn and what little I know about Rick and Kenny, I think Rick will be a lot more patient and is a lot more conservative and will take a big picture POV of things. Kenny grew up on that football mentality of win now with the future be damned. Rick's background isn't like that.



Bob

WhiteSox5187
02-17-2013, 11:15 PM
I have to disagree. Imagine you're Rick Hahn. Teams have been after you the last 3-4 yrs to be the GM, heck he even turned other teams down. But why? he'd had multiple oppprtunities to have his dream job of running an organization. Why turn that chance down (even with a team like the Pirates) to be a puppet for Kenny Williams? There's no reason to if he takes pride in what he does. I'm sure he wants to create his own legacy and if he is being honest with himself, he wouldn't take a job in title only if he couldn't do what he wants.

Based on what I readn and what little I know about Rick and Kenny, I think Rick will be a lot more patient and is a lot more conservative and will take a big picture POV of things. Kenny grew up on that football mentality of win now with the future be damned. Rick's background isn't like that.



Bob

I hope you're right and I will say right now that I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that Rick would be Kenny's puppet or anything like that and to be honest the moves of this off season would suggest that Hahn isn't Kenny's puppet. It just seems to me that in previous situations like this the GM emeritus still holds most of the power, if you want to make a deal with the Cubs for example, you call Theo. Not Jed Hoyer.

gosox41
02-17-2013, 11:17 PM
Slavko:

Actually JR's ownership percentage has reportedly been listed at 5% or so but that is still enough for him to be in day to day control as per agreement with the other owners for putting together the original deal to buy the club from Bill Veeck.

Because he is in day to day control (which is also written into his contract by the way which states he can do as he wishes without having to consult the other minority owners on baseball matters) he has the right to sell to whom he chooses to first before any other individual or company can get involved.

Lip

The team is set up as a Limited Partnership. This isn't ground breaking in the business world. There is a board of directors who have very little input on the day to day things.

As for selling the team, I believe he can sell to whom he wants but he is obligated legally to get the best deal possible for his partners. He can't go sell the team to his son for $1 or anything like ridculous like that.


Bob

doublem23
02-17-2013, 11:27 PM
The team is set up as a Limited Partnership. This isn't ground breaking in the business world. There is a board of directors who have very little input on the day to day things.

As for selling the team, I believe he can sell to whom he wants but he is obligated legally to get the best deal possible for his partners. He can't go sell the team to his son for $1 or anything like ridculous like that.


I don't believe JR will sell his stake in the Sox as long as he lives, but, and pardon my ignorance here, what would be the situation that unfolds when he passes away? Obviously I don't know the Reinsdorfs but everything I have ever read suggests the family is interested in keeping their interest with the Bulls but not the Sox. Would they only be able to sell whatever their share of ownership and just have the board appoint a new acting chairman but basically have the same operational leadership or could they sell the franchise to an entirely new ownership group that may radically alter the way the Sox are run?

gosox41
02-17-2013, 11:28 PM
Gosox 41:


Daver's point is also very, very valid. Money. Money solves a ton of problems, can buy your way out of a lot of situations.

I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.

Lip

Money helps but isn't the sole answer.

I've also fantasized about having an owner with unlimited funds as have 27 other teams in baseball.

But the stuff that has kept me up more at night is:

What if Dybzinski didn't screw up in the '83 playoffs?
What if Lamont didn't start his 20 game winner in 1993 knowing he hadn't pitched well against that team?
What if Frank were healthy enough to play 1B in the '93 playoffs?
What would of happened in 1994?
How did 1994 effect 1995-1999 for the Sox?
What if David Wells showed some heart in 2001 and actually pitched like he did in 2000?
What if Ozzie took KW's suggestion of a 6 man rotation in 2006 to ease the load on the starters? To take it one step further-how does a playoff appearance in 2006 alter the next 5 years?

As bad a move as it was, if Harrelson wasn't hired as GM of this team, we probably would have spent the last 20 some years wishing we could produce a hitter like Frank. Or for that matter, would Robin ever be a manager of this team let alone a player?


I'm sure the are more things. Didn't Cora throw to the wrong base in the '93 playoffs extending an inning for the Blue Jays? I can't remember.


Bob

gosox41
02-17-2013, 11:34 PM
I hope you're right and I will say right now that I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that Rick would be Kenny's puppet or anything like that and to be honest the moves of this off season would suggest that Hahn isn't Kenny's puppet. It just seems to me that in previous situations like this the GM emeritus still holds most of the power, if you want to make a deal with the Cubs for example, you call Theo. Not Jed Hoyer.

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that KW wants to be more hands off and not have to deal with the grind anymore.

And people forget that the Sox spent the late '80's and '90's with a strong focus on building up a a strong farm system. KW brought a whole new level of win now aggresiveness that I've never seen this franchise have since I've been old enough to understand baseball. The same old philosohpy that people speak of here seems to be a myth. We went from a guy like Schu who was pretty solid with the farm system to KW who would do just about anything to win now.

I don't think this teams philosophy under the Reinsdor regime is stale at all.


Bob

amsteel
02-18-2013, 06:25 AM
$

dickallen15
02-18-2013, 07:34 AM
Gosox 41:

Well the ownership question is a moot point because sooner or later JR is going to be out of the picture and based on the latest information that he himself has made public in print and on TV, no one in his family wants to take over when he is gone.

It's going to come regardless and we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Daver's point is also very, very valid. Money. Money solves a ton of problems, can buy your way out of a lot of situations.

I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.

Lip

Lip,
As I told you when the article came out several years ago which stated Jerry's kids wanted no part of the "family business" that I knew someone who did business with his son, and his son would love to follow in his father's footsteps. Since then, his son has become president of the Bulls. He would love to head the Sox as well.

DumpJerry
02-18-2013, 09:28 AM
Money helps but isn't the sole answer.

I've also fantasized about having an owner with unlimited funds as have 27 other teams in baseball.

But the stuff that has kept me up more at night is:

What if Dybzinski didn't screw up in the '83 playoffs?
What if Lamont didn't start his 20 game winner in 1993 knowing he hadn't pitched well against that team?
What if Frank were healthy enough to play 1B in the '93 playoffs?
What would of happened in 1994?
How did 1994 effect 1995-1999 for the Sox?
What if David Wells showed some heart in 2001 and actually pitched like he did in 2000?
What if Ozzie took KW's suggestion of a 6 man rotation in 2006 to ease the load on the starters? To take it one step further-how does a playoff appearance in 2006 alter the next 5 years?

As bad a move as it was, if Harrelson wasn't hired as GM of this team, we probably would have spent the last 20 some years wishing we could produce a hitter like Frank. Or for that matter, would Robin ever be a manager of this team let alone a player?


I'm sure the are more things. Didn't Cora throw to the wrong base in the '93 playoffs extending an inning for the Blue Jays? I can't remember.


Bob
"If" is the biggest word in the English language.

Jollyroger2
02-18-2013, 11:44 AM
Money helps but isn't the sole answer.

I've also fantasized about having an owner with unlimited funds as have 27 other teams in baseball.

But the stuff that has kept me up more at night is:

What if Dybzinski didn't screw up in the '83 playoffs?
What if Lamont didn't start his 20 game winner in 1993 knowing he hadn't pitched well against that team?
What if Frank were healthy enough to play 1B in the '93 playoffs?
What would of happened in 1994?
How did 1994 effect 1995-1999 for the Sox?
What if David Wells showed some heart in 2001 and actually pitched like he did in 2000?
What if Ozzie took KW's suggestion of a 6 man rotation in 2006 to ease the load on the starters? To take it one step further-how does a playoff appearance in 2006 alter the next 5 years?

As bad a move as it was, if Harrelson wasn't hired as GM of this team, we probably would have spent the last 20 some years wishing we could produce a hitter like Frank. Or for that matter, would Robin ever be a manager of this team let alone a player?


I'm sure the are more things. Didn't Cora throw to the wrong base in the '93 playoffs extending an inning for the Blue Jays? I can't remember.


Bob

Some of those are just plain one-offs though. I mean would they really have affected the outcome of an entire season or series? The Dybzinski thing hurt but the Sox as a whole scored what, three runs in that entire series? After destroying the ball and the AL from August on? That's one of those inexplicable things with baseball. To me that was one of the most disappointing Sox teams ever. Luzinski didn't help either by guaranteeing a sweep...

Shoulda woulda, if....to me the first thing the Sox need to do is rebuild the farm system.....it's going to take years.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2013, 12:03 PM
Dick:

Time will tell.

To me if his son is interested why doesn't JR just come out and say it? What's to be gained by 'hiding' that??

JR doesn't strike me as a guy who plays the intrigue factor a lot. He seems more straight forward, if his son is really interested, he'd say so.

Just my opinion.

Lip

Paulwny
02-18-2013, 12:04 PM
I'm sure the are more things. Didn't Cora throw to the wrong base in the '93 playoffs extending an inning for the Blue Jays? I can't remember.


Bob

If I remember correctly, Cora was late covering 2nd on a ball hit to Ventura. Ventura then double clutched and threw to 1st, the batter beat the throw.

Hitmen77
02-18-2013, 04:48 PM
As others have said, the main thing the Sox need to do is get much better at developing major league quality players through their farm system. As was discussed in a minor league thread, they haven't developed a quality major league position player since Aaron Rowand was drafted 15 years ago.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3022822#post3022822

Until they get their act together in this regard, I don't see them being a consistent playoff team. Their key to success over the last decade or so is to find good players off the scrap heap. That's a useful thing to be able to do, but it can't be the cornerstone of a team's attempt to compete. The Sox have also shown a willingness to spend on veteran players at times (Dunn, Peavy, re-signing Konerko, etc.). However, this usually isn't enough to put them over the top when there is almost no organizational talent to fill the remaining holes.

The Sox are the only one of the original 16 MLB teams who have never made the playoffs in consecutive seasons. In 18 full seasons since the 3 division/wild card format started, the Sox have only made the the playoffs 3 times. Three stinking times in 18 years out of the AL Central. That's unacceptable.

Perennial playoff contenders spend money on MLB payroll AND invest in a good farm system. Sox ownership has simply not shown either a commitment or an interest in committing to both. It's been about 5 years since KW had his "shakeup" of the Sox farm system - when they hired Buddy Bell. It's been 5 years and i'm still waiting for enough of a talent core to help put this team into the playoffs.

Maybe the new CBA will change things, maybe there's talent already in the pipeline that'll burst upon the scene in a couple of years......we'll see.

In the mean time, this team is mired in 2nd or 3rd place, attendance has fizzled after 4 seasons with varying degrees of disappointment, and Sox fans bear the brunt (not from ownership, but from the media and from other fans) of not supporting an uninspiring team.

shingo10
02-18-2013, 06:17 PM
The last 10 years would look a whole lot different if the Sox would play decent in August/September.

2003, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2012 are all years in which the Sox could have legitimately been in the playoffs if not for September swoons.

I'll give a pass to 2004 because of no Thomas/Maggs but the other years were just choke jobs. If they finish those seasons out then we wouldn't need to be having this conversation.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2013, 08:18 PM
Shingo:

EXCELLENT point.

Lip

Railsplitter
02-18-2013, 09:10 PM
Strong pitching, strong defense, and multi-faceted offense.

Mr. Jinx
02-18-2013, 09:14 PM
Spiking the bubble gum with HGH.

Brian26
02-18-2013, 10:42 PM
Some of those are just plain one-offs though. I mean would they really have affected the outcome of an entire season or series? The Dybzinski thing hurt but the Sox as a whole scored what, three runs in that entire series? After destroying the ball and the AL from August on? That's one of those inexplicable things with baseball. To me that was one of the most disappointing Sox teams ever. Luzinski didn't help either by guaranteeing a sweep...

Actually Dybzinski's the one tangible example of a singular play or moment on that list that probably re-writes Sox history. If Dybzinski doesn't holds up on that play, the Sox win Game 4. Hoyt wasn't going to lose in Game 5 at home. The Sox bats would have re-awakened and beat the Phillies easily.

palehozenychicty
02-19-2013, 12:45 AM
The last 10 years would look a whole lot different if the Sox would play decent in August/September.

2003, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2012 are all years in which the Sox could have legitimately been in the playoffs if not for September swoons.

I'll give a pass to 2004 because of no Thomas/Maggs but the other years were just choke jobs. If they finish those seasons out then we wouldn't need to be having this conversation.

Goes back to not having enough organizational depth and talent throughout the roster.

The team has had the fewest injuries in the game for a long time. But the roster is too thin and the starters, while solid, get tired.

I don't see it changing much until Jerry retires. Sorry.

Golden Sox
02-24-2013, 07:45 PM
John Danks is going to come back strong this 2013 season. He's going to help get the White Sox in the 2013 Playoffs. 2013 will start a new era in White Sox history. 2013 will be the start of many Playoff appearances for the White Sox. With Danks at the top of the White Sox rotation we will have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. Pitching gets teams into the Playoffs and Danks will help lead the White Sox into a new glorius era.

Lip Man 1
02-24-2013, 07:50 PM
OK........................................

:?:

Lip

LITTLE NELL
02-24-2013, 08:21 PM
John Danks is going to come back strong this 2013 season. He's going to help get the White Sox in the 2013 Playoffs. 2013 will start a new era in White Sox history. 2013 will be the start of many Playoff appearances for the White Sox. With Danks at the top of the White Sox rotation we will have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. Pitching gets teams into the Playoffs and Danks will help lead the White Sox into a new glorius era.

Here's hoping your predictions come true.

SephClone89
02-24-2013, 09:20 PM
John Danks is going to come back strong this 2013 season. He's going to help get the White Sox in the 2013 Playoffs. 2013 will start a new era in White Sox history. 2013 will be the start of many Playoff appearances for the White Sox. With Danks at the top of the White Sox rotation we will have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. Pitching gets teams into the Playoffs and Danks will help lead the White Sox into a new glorius era.

OK........................................

:?:

Lip

Here's hoping your predictions come true.

Here we've wasted three pages talking about changes in organization philosophies, marketing, scouting, drafting...

But the answer--and how could we not see it?

:Danks:

thomas35forever
02-25-2013, 12:26 PM
What'll it take? Stronger starting pitching that won't flame out down the stretch, an offense that won't rely on the home run to get out of holes, an above-average bullpen and a closer that can pitch just as well in non-save situations as when the game is on the line. Bottom line, more experience and players who know their roles will make this team a contender, one that will strike fear into the hearts of opponents and can back that up on the field.