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34 Inch Stick
07-30-2002, 10:02 AM
It was reported in the Sun Times that he has quit current job as pitching coach to care for a family member. I assume everything will have resolved itself be next spring. I wouldn't mind seeing smoke as our pitching coach next year. He has seemed to do a good job as both a coach and a front office man since his retirement as a player.

LongDistanceFan
07-30-2002, 10:07 AM
the man we have is a good coach and deserves a chance.

Dadawg_77
07-30-2002, 10:11 AM
But our pitchers couldn't hold his jock.

34 Inch Stick
07-30-2002, 10:12 AM
Still he'd be able to tell them where to find the best shemale pros in town.

LongDistanceFan
07-30-2002, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Still he'd be able to tell them where to find the best shemale pros in town.

:?:

LongDistanceFan
07-30-2002, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
But our pitchers couldn't hold his jock.

didn't understand this

Dadawg_77
07-30-2002, 10:23 AM
Stewart on the 93 Jays was quote as saying the white sox pitchers couldn't hold his jock strap.

LongDistanceFan
07-30-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Stewart on the 93 Jays was quote as saying the white sox pitchers couldn't hold his jock strap.

thanks

34 Inch Stick
07-30-2002, 10:25 AM
1) He had some problems with the Sox when he was still pitching for the A's. His response was that none of the Sox, except for Baines, could hold his jock.

2) He was arrested in the back seat of a car with a shemale pro early in his career

I still have a lot of respect for his knowledge and demeanor. I think he would be a good coach for young pitchers.

Dadawg_77
07-30-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
1) He had some problems with the Sox when he was still pitching for the A's. His response was that none of the Sox, except for Baines, could hold his jock.


I guess I remeber incorrectly. I thought he siad that while he was on the Jays.

Cheryl
07-30-2002, 11:02 AM
Stewart was mostly pissed off at something Steve Lyons did. I don't remember what it was--hit a grand slam off him or something.

MisterB
07-30-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Stewart was mostly pissed off at something Steve Lyons did. I don't remember what it was--hit a grand slam off him or something.

I thought it was a Sox-A's game in Oakland and McDowell had hit McGwire with a pitch. There was a lot of jawing back and forth between the benches and a fight nearly broke out. At least that's my recollection...

Mathew
07-30-2002, 05:50 PM
Why do we want Dave Stewart? All he did in Toronto is bitch about how he wasn't the manager and was bigger than the team. He is an I person and on top of the the Jays staff still sucked. Stewart is an idiot and his attitude hasn't changed a bit. He's mad because he feels he's passed on because he's black not because he's not the best man for the job.

hold2dibber
07-30-2002, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
Why do we want Dave Stewart? All he did in Toronto is bitch about how he wasn't the manager and was bigger than the team. He is an I person and on top of the the Jays staff still sucked. Stewart is an idiot and his attitude hasn't changed a bit. He's mad because he feels he's passed on because he's black not because he's not the best man for the job.

I have no idea why Stewart is mad, but I do agree that he is an "I" guy and not the right guy for the job. I still like the idea of hiring Joe Kerrigan - the Red Sox always seemed to get a lot out of their pitchers when he was their coach (although they didn't really develop young pitchers from their system - I don't know if that's his fault or if Duquette simply didn't give him decent arms to work with).

Daver
07-30-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I have no idea why Stewart is mad, but I do agree that he is an "I" guy and not the right guy for the job. I still like the idea of hiring Joe Kerrigan - the Red Sox always seemed to get a lot out of their pitchers when he was their coach (although they didn't really develop young pitchers from their system - I don't know if that's his fault or if Duquette simply didn't give him decent arms to work with).

I hope they can convince Don Cooper to keep the job.

hold2dibber
07-30-2002, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by daver


I hope they can convince Don Cooper to keep the job.

I don't know enough about Cooper to make that call. My concern is that he has been with the organization for a while, and the guys that have come up through the ranks, other than Buehrle, haven't broken through. My concern is that he may be able to get pitchers from point A to point B, but not from point B to point C! (I can't believe I just wrote that).

Daver
07-30-2002, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I don't know enough about Cooper to make that call. My concern is that he has been with the organization for a while, and the guys that have come up through the ranks, other than Buehrle, haven't broken through. My concern is that he may be able to get pitchers from point A to point B, but not from point B to point C! (I can't believe I just wrote that).

He's been here since 1988,he was responsible for Alex Fernandez,Wilson Alvarez,and Jack Macdowell,among others.He has been a pitching coach at every level of the Sox minor league system at one point or another,including a brief stint with the Major League team in 1995,when he requested to be returned to the minors.His previous title was director of minor league pitching,which he handed to Kirk Champion to be a consultant to Nardi at the beginning of the season.Still doubt his qualifications?

Chisoxfn
07-30-2002, 06:22 PM
I don't. To me their is only one reason not to have him back next year and thats if he doesn't want to. I think he did an excellent job in the minors since he's been here and I like what he's done with our major leaugers since he came up.

Now I do think we need to bring in a new guy to either take over his old job or to take over the job in Chicago.

I like how Cooper is telling the guys to be agressive and is telling them to just throw strikes. He also is letting them throw more pitches and seems willing to let them work their ways out of jams, something we never saw when Nardi was here. To me its good for a pitcher to be able to work out of jams cause it improves their toughness and mental approach, but it also gives them confidence cause it shows the coaches trust them. That doens't mean you always leave a guy out there, but just cause they give up a hit later in the game it doens't mean they are ready to come out.

hold2dibber
07-30-2002, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
I don't. To me their is only one reason not to have him back next year and thats if he doesn't want to. I think he did an excellent job in the minors since he's been here and I like what he's done with our major leaugers since he came up.

Now I do think we need to bring in a new guy to either take over his old job or to take over the job in Chicago.

I like how Cooper is telling the guys to be agressive and is telling them to just throw strikes. He also is letting them throw more pitches and seems willing to let them work their ways out of jams, something we never saw when Nardi was here. To me its good for a pitcher to be able to work out of jams cause it improves their toughness and mental approach, but it also gives them confidence cause it shows the coaches trust them. That doens't mean you always leave a guy out there, but just cause they give up a hit later in the game it doens't mean they are ready to come out.

You post made me wonder what people generally think the problem has been with Garland, Wright, Ritchie, etc. -- is it a matter of approach, or is it mechanics? It seems to me these are two very different issues and a great pitching coach not only has to be able to help pitchers with the mental approach but also has to be able to identify mechanical flaws and identify mechanical improvements.

I have no idea whether Cooper has both skill sets; his lengthy service is admirable and the Sox have had pretty good success over the last 14 years in terms of developing their own pitchers (in addition to those Daver pointed out, Baldwin, Parque, Buehrle, and Sirotka have all come through the system and been effective MLB pitchers). I have no reason to believe he wouldn't do okay; I think the performance of the pitchers for the remainder of this season will tell a lot.

Daver
07-30-2002, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


You post made me wonder what people generally think the problem has been with Garland, Wright, Ritchie, etc. -- is it a matter of approach, or is it mechanics? It seems to me these are two very different issues and a great pitching coach not only has to be able to help pitchers with the mental approach but also has to be able to identify mechanical flaws and identify mechanical improvements.



Cooper does not try to change a pitchers natural approach,something Nardi tried to do,he works with a pitchers natural move to the plate and refines it from there,based on release point and emphasizing repetition,to try and stop the tipping problem that has plagued some of these guys all season long.

On a side note,it was Cooper that worked with Cal Eldred in the offseason of 99 to work on a release and motion that would lessen the problems Cal had previously,and the season he had in 2000 was not bad compared to other seasons in his career.

hold2dibber
07-30-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by daver


Cooper does not try to change a pitchers natural approach,something Nardi tried to do,he works with a pitchers natural move to the plate and refines it from there,based on release point and emphasizing repetition,to try and stop the tipping problem that has plagued some of these guys all season long.

On a side note,it was Cooper that worked with Cal Eldred in the offseason of 99 to work on a release and motion that would lessen the problems Cal had previously,and the season he had in 2000 was not bad compared to other seasons in his career.

Very helpful insight - the more I learn, the more I like him. Thanks.

34 Inch Stick
07-31-2002, 09:50 AM
After consultation I withdraw my suggestion.

Tragg
07-31-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Stewart on the 93 Jays was quote as saying the white sox pitchers couldn't hold his jock strap.

I think in 1990 when we swept the As in a doubleheader in Oakland, he made some comment like "the Sox can't hold our jockstrap - they don't have any players - Kittle - that's the only good player on that team."

rmusacch
07-31-2002, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Mathew
Why do we want Dave Stewart? All he did in Toronto is bitch about how he wasn't the manager and was bigger than the team. He is an I person and on top of the the Jays staff still sucked. Stewart is an idiot and his attitude hasn't changed a bit. He's mad because he feels he's passed on because he's black not because he's not the best man for the job.

He actually was pissed that he was not the general manager. He was the assistant GM. He is looking for a GM position.