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Thome25
01-10-2013, 04:22 AM
THE GREATEST offensive player in White Sox history will be on the ballot next year.

I was watching MLB network during their HOF special last night and they were discussing next year's potential HOFers. At that moment, I realized how much of a ****ing jackass idiot Mitch Williams really is.

Personally I think Frank Thomas is a without question a first-ballot HOFer. Offensive machine and has no links to the PED scandal. Only player who VOLUNTEERED to testify in front of Congress several years back.

He never hit 50 homers in a single season. If a guy like Frank who already had the natural body size and hitting ability took PEDs he would have easily topped 60-70 homers in a season.

What "wild thing" had to say almost floored me. If I literally had something nearby to throw, I would have broken my flat screen.

He basically said that Frank has no links to PEDs "that we know of" (he said it in a very suspicious tone) and that there's no way Frank Thomas gets voted in because voters are going to look at his body size and assume that he was using PEDs.

But enough about that *******.

What do you think about Frank's impending induction? Will he get voted in?

Also how many of you are planning a trip to Cooperstown next year to represent the White Sox?

Chrisaway
01-10-2013, 05:14 AM
If Frank gets in, I will make my first trip to Cooperstown. Easily the best hitter I've ever seen.

jamokes
01-10-2013, 06:17 AM
Frank will be a Hall of Famer. If he was a Yankee, he would be a first ballot winner.

SephClone89
01-10-2013, 06:32 AM
I think you're blowing Williams's comments totally out of proportion. He wasn't implying that he would be suspicious, but that the writers will be. And after seeing how they voted on Piazza and Bagwell this year, would it really shock anyone if Thomas didn't get in next year?

moochpuppy
01-10-2013, 07:12 AM
He basically said that Frank has no links to PEDs "that we know of"

He could say this about any athlete on the face of the earth.

As for Big Hurt, I think he'll be voted in by his 3rd year on the ballot. Phenomenal hitter.

Dibbs
01-10-2013, 07:45 AM
It would be a shame if Frank does not get voted in on the first ballot. He is one of the best hitters ever to play baseball.

Funny to think a guy like Ron Santo is worthy of the Hall of Fame, and next year writers could say Frank is not yet worthy. Crazy world we live in.

tstrike2000
01-10-2013, 07:52 AM
No question, a first ballot HOFer. I happily told him that last year while getting his autograph at Soxfest and he smiled like I think he's anticipating that, too.

Thome25
01-10-2013, 07:57 AM
I think you're blowing Williams's comments totally out of proportion. He wasn't implying that he would be suspicious, but that the writers will be. And after seeing how they voted on Piazza and Bagwell this year, would it really shock anyone if Thomas didn't get in next year?

You may be right. I may have blown Williams' comments out of proportion.

With that said, I still think it's completely ludicrous that he would insinuate that the voters would "look at his body size" to decide that he possibly used PEDs and because of that doesn't deserve to be voted in next year. Especially when there is more evidence to the contrary.

Bobby Thigpen
01-10-2013, 08:08 AM
If Frank Thomas isn't a HOFer, no one should get in ever again.

Arguably the best clean hitter since Ted Williams.

russ99
01-10-2013, 08:16 AM
If Frank Thomas isn't a HOFer, no one should get in ever again.

Arguably the best clean hitter since Ted Williams.

As in the other thread, IMO, Thomas primarily being a DH will push him to second ballot more than any perceived circumstantial links to PED.

I hope thats not the case, but the BBWA are a bunch of sanctimonious blowhards.

WisSoxFan
01-10-2013, 08:23 AM
He'll never get in on the first ballot. Not because he's not deserving, rather because - as has been previously mentioned - the BBWAA (or whatever the acronym is) are sanctimonious blowhards.

sox1970
01-10-2013, 08:26 AM
I think there's a little too much paranoia here. Frank will go in next year. It may be 75-80%, when 10 years ago it would have been 85-95%, but he'll get in first ballot.

eriqjaffe
01-10-2013, 08:34 AM
I think there's a little too much paranoia here. Frank will go in next year. It may be 75-80%, when 10 years ago it would have been 85-95%, but he'll get in first ballot.I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. Biggio didn't get in on his first ballot, and he has 3,000 hits and I've never heard anybody link him to PEDs.

As has been said before, it's the BBWAA being sanctimonious. One or two bad apples spoils the whole bunch.

sox1970
01-10-2013, 08:40 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. Biggio didn't get in on his first ballot, and he has 3,000 hits and I've never heard anybody link him to PEDs.

As has been said before, it's the BBWAA being sanctimonious. One or two bad apples spoils the whole bunch.

Thomas has historic peak numbers. He won MVP's. Biggio did not.

Without the steroid smell, Thomas is getting in. I bet when the ballots come out next year, most of the voters will instantly check Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas...and then start thinking again.

skobabe8
01-10-2013, 08:57 AM
Heart says he'll get in next year. Head says they will make him wait 2-3 years.

Mr. Jinx
01-10-2013, 09:02 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. Biggio didn't get in on his first ballot, and he has 3,000 hits and I've never heard anybody link him to PEDs.

As has been said before, it's the BBWAA being sanctimonious. One or two bad apples spoils the whole bunch.

Agree. I do not think he will get in next year due to being a DH half his career and playing in the steroid era. I do think he is pretty much a lock to get in his 2nd year.

Hitmen77
01-10-2013, 09:06 AM
I think Frank Thomas should be a 1st ballot HOFer. Period. His numbers speak for themselves. I don't care if he played half his career at DH.

beasly213
01-10-2013, 09:17 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thomafr04.shtml

Just look at his numbers from 91-00. It is incredible! Even in his "Down years" during that time frame in 98 he hit .265 with 29 HR then in 99 he bumped his avg back up to .305 but the power went down to 15 hr. Just incredible.

mahagga73
01-10-2013, 09:20 AM
I think you're blowing Williams's comments totally out of proportion. He wasn't implying that he would be suspicious, but that the writers will be. And after seeing how they voted on Piazza and Bagwell this year, would it really shock anyone if Thomas didn't get in next year?
yes. Frank was better than those two. The baseball writers are clearly incompetent and they need to either widen the pool of voters or change the requirements for induction. These same writers who lauded these steroid induced players and their historic achievements at the time, all the while knowing something was amiss, are now acting all holier than thou like they are the guardians of baseball integrity. Most of them are idiots. I'm not sure how much validity the Hall of Fame is going to have if they plan on erasing an entire era of the game and a lot of it's greatest players. These writers like to bring up this character nonsense nonstop but overlook the fact people like Cap Anson and Judge Landis, who both set back intergration for decades due to their racial bigotry are already in. And Ty Cobb is another example, virulent racist who was suspected strongly of throwing games in an era where this was commonplace. All the while this nonsense goes on , players like Raines,Biggio, Mc Griff, Piazza, and others are going to suffer the consequences because the numbers they put up are still being compared to the steroid users of the era and making them look less worthy.

wilburaga
01-10-2013, 09:23 AM
I'd really be surprised if he got in on the first ballot. Of the five tools, he aces two of them, but is probably in the bottom 10% in the other three, and possibly dead last in one (throwing).

He had no notable success in the postseason. Of the four postseason series in which he participated, he 0-ferred two of them.

#35, with a bat in his hand, is a first ballot HOFer. Without the bat, not so fast.

blandman
01-10-2013, 09:25 AM
Do I think Frank should be a first ballot hall of famer? Absolutely.

Will he be? No.

Frank's got too much working against him. Stubborn writers not voting any slugger in due to the PED situation, stubborn writers not voting in guys who DH'ed, and stubborn writers not wanting to vote too many players in (as both Maddux and Glavine will also be eligible for induction and more likely to be voted in).

I think he'll get in. But it may take a few years. Or five.

mahagga73
01-10-2013, 09:29 AM
I'd really be surprised if he got in on the first ballot. Of the five tools, he aces two of them, but is probably in the bottom 10% in the other three, and possibly dead last in one (throwing).

He had no notable success in the postseason. Of the four postseason series in which he participated, he 0-ferred two of them.

#35, with a bat in his hand, is a first ballot HOFer. Without the bat, not so fast.
He's gonna get in but it might be close for the reasons you mentioned. The fact Piazza didn't get in gives me pause however. He was the same kind of player legendary hitting skills , poor to average defensive skills I think Thomas 2 MVP's and the fact it should be three (cheater Giambi) are going to get him in , and I'll say it is going to be high 70's low 80's, a relatively close call. Also, these writers are going to be feeling the heat to actually elect some of these deserving players they for some reason passed on this yar.

PalehosePlanet
01-10-2013, 09:37 AM
Tim Kurkjian just stated that Frank THomas is a first ballot HOF'er -- along w/Maddux, Glavine and Mussina.

He states that one of the problems is that each voter only gets a certain amount of votes. The other problem is many voters do not use all of their votes.

mahagga73
01-10-2013, 09:48 AM
Frank will be a Hall of Famer. If he was a Yankee, he would be a first ballot winner.
I don't know, it seems like the consensus is that being a Yankee has worked against a lot of players . Bernie Williams, Mattingly, etc.

asindc
01-10-2013, 09:53 AM
For those citing Frank's lack of defensive prowess, I give you Ted Williams.

wilburaga
01-10-2013, 10:31 AM
I don't know, it seems like the consensus is that being a Yankee has worked against a lot of players . Bernie Williams, Mattingly, etc.

Quite right. Joe Dimaggio, Yogi Berra, and Whitey Ford all failed in their first attempt at the HOF.

Chez
01-10-2013, 10:44 AM
Frank, Maddux and Glavine will all be first ballot HOF'ers. Biggio makes it next year too.

rdivaldi
01-10-2013, 11:50 AM
It's a shame that besides Frank's gawdy numbers, most people do not know of his outspoken stance against PEDs. In 2003 he helped organize a revolt against the testing process to make it even harsher and more widespread. Too bad the union talked them down.

When people mention PEDs and drop in Frank's name it's just massively unfair and untrue.

Mr. Jinx
01-10-2013, 01:05 PM
It's a shame that besides Frank's gawdy numbers, most people do not know of his outspoken stance against PEDs. In 2003 he helped organize a revolt against the testing process to make it even harsher and more widespread. Too bad the union talked them down.

When people mention PEDs and drop in Frank's name it's just massively unfair and untrue.

It isn't fair, but it is the reality due to the era he played in.

Irishsox1
01-10-2013, 01:26 PM
I think the odds of Frank getting in are better due to anti-Bonds, Sosa, McGuire position the media has taken.

The media remembers Frank complaining about a lot of things but one big one was drug testing. The media called him a whiner at the time but that's the best thing Frank could have done.

rdivaldi
01-10-2013, 02:10 PM
It isn't fair, but it is the reality due to the era he played in.

True, but I wish the story would get out. A quick google search brings up the team's stance back in 2003, but I doubt that many writers will bother doing research.

WhiteSox5187
01-10-2013, 02:26 PM
True, but I wish the story would get out. A quick google search brings up the team's stance back in 2003, but I doubt that many writers will bother doing research.

Every writer on MLB Network was saying that Frank would get in on the first ballot. The only guy who said he wouldn't was Mitch Williams, as covered earlier in the thread. Writers tend to have a long memory and I think they will remember Frank's early stance against steroids.

TDog
01-10-2013, 04:53 PM
It isn't fair, but it is the reality due to the era he played in.

Or more accurately, the ignorance of Frank Thomas as a player, which is going to happen when people only look at numbers. He had these numbers, this is when he played so he is suspect. The numbers posted in the steroids era don't constitute Hall of Fame qualifications any more than Barry Bonds is beloved by fans as the all-time home run champ. And, sadly, players overshadowed by the performance-enhancers are forgotten.

Baseball writers are supposed to know better, but many of them don't even cover the games anymore. There was a columnist in Costra County, California (A's country, and, of course, the Oakland was ground zero for steroid use for a very long time) who wrote a column alleging that Frank Thomas was a 'roider. I think the whole diminished-sills thing was where he made his numbers-based argument. That was before Thomas signed with the A's.

I used to believe that Frank Thomas wouldn't get into the Hall of Fame n his first year of eligibility. Outside of Chicago and even among many White Sox fans, he was considered something of a whiner. He wasn't respected enough to win the MVP in 2000, which he deserved even before Jason Giambi's secret came out. And Thomas was considered a whiney DH to boot.

But I think Thomas is more respected now than when he finished his career, a bit later than he should have. At the end with Oakland, he didn't have much left. Fans do care about performance-enhancing drugs in baseball. They didn't when it was most prevalent, but that is because they really weren't aware of it. I think Thomas will stand out as the anti-'roider when he appears on the ballot. I think he will be appreciated for that and his accomplishments, what he meant for the game.

comiskey2000
01-10-2013, 05:45 PM
But I think Thomas is more respected now than when he finished his career, a bit later than he should have. At the end with Oakland, he didn't have much left. Fans do care about performance-enhancing drugs in baseball. They didn't when it was most prevalent, but that is because they really weren't aware of it. I think Thomas will stand out as the anti-'roider when he appears on the ballot. I think he will be appreciated for that and his accomplishments, what he meant for the game.

In 2006 with the A's, Frank hit 39 HR and 114 RBI. 4th in MVP. Not bad at all!

SephClone89
01-10-2013, 05:59 PM
In 2006 with the A's, Frank hit 39 HR and 114 RBI. 4th in MVP. Not bad at all!

I think he's referring to his return to Oakland in '08.

TDog
01-10-2013, 06:33 PM
I think he's referring to his return to Oakland in '08.

Indeed I was. Thomas' second stint with the A's at the end of his career was the end that I was referring to.

voodoochile
01-10-2013, 08:00 PM
If Frank doesn't make the HOF on the first ballot they should shut the ****er down.

I actually think he will be helped by the fact he was a clean player in a dirty era.

Frater Perdurabo
01-10-2013, 08:04 PM
If Frank doesn't make the HOF on the first ballot they should shut the ****er down.

I will burn with the fury of a thousand suns if Frank does not get inducted next year. Any writer who does not vote for him (or Maddux, for that matter) ought to have his/her eyeballs gouged with flaming pokers.

spawn
01-10-2013, 08:06 PM
If Frank doesn't make the HOF on the first ballot they should shut the ****er down.

I actually think he will be helped by the fact he was a clean player in a dirty era.
Roberto Alomar didn't get in his first year, and he is considered one of the best second basemen to ever play the game. Not saying it would be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get in on the first ballot. HOF voting is a joke.

DSpivack
01-10-2013, 08:08 PM
If Frank doesn't make the HOF on the first ballot they should shut the ****er down.

I actually think he will be helped by the fact he was a clean player in a dirty era.
What might be problematic is that many voters are morons when it comes to the sport and don't accept that the DH was put into place 40 years ago. I can see that hurting Frank, as well as next year's class being a very crowded.

Also, the HOF is already a joke. Phil Rizzuto is a HOFer.

LITTLE NELL
01-10-2013, 08:22 PM
Roberto Alomar didn't get in his first year, and he is considered one of the best second basemen to ever play the game. Not saying it would be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get in on the first ballot. HOF voting is a joke.

The spitting incident with the umpire probably hurt Alomar's chances of a first year election but you are right, the voting is a joke.

mahagga73
01-10-2013, 08:32 PM
What might be problematic is that many voters are morons when it comes to the sport and don't accept that the DH was put into place 40 years ago. I can see that hurting Frank, as well as next year's class being a very crowded.

Also, the HOF is already a joke. Phil Rizzuto is a HOFer.
I bet the local businesses are poed. The writers stupidity is going to cost them big this year.

A. Cavatica
01-10-2013, 09:02 PM
There's a year for Frank and his agent to wage a PR campaign. Most people don't know his history with testing.

rdivaldi
01-10-2013, 09:03 PM
Every writer on MLB Network was saying that Frank would get in on the first ballot. The only guy who said he wouldn't was Mitch Williams, as covered earlier in the thread. Writers tend to have a long memory and I think they will remember Frank's early stance against steroids.

I hope you're right because the man deserves to walk with the greats of the game.

There's a year for Frank and his agent to wage a PR campaign. Most people don't know his history with testing.

This is exactly what concerns me. This is a story worth repeating.

voodoochile
01-10-2013, 09:30 PM
Roberto Alomar didn't get in his first year, and he is considered one of the best second basemen to ever play the game. Not saying it would be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get in on the first ballot. HOF voting is a joke.

That's a travesty. A serious argument can be made that Alomar was the best 2B to ever play the game.

RKMeibalane
01-10-2013, 09:39 PM
That's a travesty. A serious argument can be made that Alomar was the best 2B to ever play the game.

I agree. He hit for average and power. He could steal bases. He was a great defensive second baseman. He could hit at almost any spot in the batting order. But what I remember most about Alomar was that he played on some absolutely loaded Toronto and Baltimore teams in the '90s, and he was the best player on every one of those teams.

Brian26
01-10-2013, 09:56 PM
Roberto Alomar didn't get in his first year, and he is considered one of the best second basemen to ever play the game. Not saying it would be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get in on the first ballot. HOF voting is a joke.

This year, of all years, was the point where baseball writers threw up their hands and said "I give up." Every interview I heard on the radio and saw on tv with the writers echoed the same sentiment..."how can we do this?". Next year's vote is a slam dunk. This is what the writers want. I think Maddux, Frank and Glavine all go in next year.

WhiteSox5187
01-10-2013, 10:00 PM
This year, of all years, was the point where baseball writers threw up their hands and said "I give up." Every interview I heard on the radio and saw on tv with the writers echoed the same sentiment..."how can we do this?". Next year's vote is a slam dunk. This is what the writers want. I think Maddux, Frank and Glavine all go in next year.

When you say "this year" you mean the 2012 ballot, right? Because every writer I have heard speak has somewhat implied that they got it right this year by not voting in Bonds and Clemens. After Alomar didn't get in (and I think he missed it by two or three votes), I recall a lot of writers being upset at the process.

Brian26
01-10-2013, 10:17 PM
When you say "this year" you mean the 2012 ballot, right? Because every writer I have heard speak has somewhat implied that they got it right this year by not voting in Bonds and Clemens. After Alomar didn't get in (and I think he missed it by two or three votes), I recall a lot of writers being upset at the process.

I'm talking about this year's (2013) HOF vote. I specifically heard Heyman, Verducci and Morosi all say the same thing referring to guys like Piazza, Bagwell, Biggio, etc...in other words, guys like Bonds, Clemens and Sosa are the easy decisions right now, but the other guys are still the question marks.

I don't think you'll have those same questions next year with the two pitchers and Frank.

WhiteSox5187
01-10-2013, 10:19 PM
I'm talking about this year's (2013) HOF vote. I specifically heard Heyman, Verducci and Morosi all say the same thing referring to guys like Piazza, Bagwell, Biggio, etc...in other words, guys like Bonds, Clemens and Sosa are the easy decisions right now, but the other guys are still the question marks.

I don't think you'll have those same questions next year with the two pitchers and Frank.

Yea, all of the writers I heard yesterday said that there will be at least three inductees next year and maybe even four depending on how Biggio does.

A. Cavatica
01-10-2013, 10:52 PM
Roberto Alomar didn't get in his first year, and he is considered one of the best second basemen to ever play the game. Not saying it would be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get in on the first ballot. HOF voting is a joke.

Lou Whitaker, who was in Alomar's class as a second baseman, has an even bigger grievance.

RKMeibalane
01-10-2013, 11:35 PM
Lou Whitaker, who was in Alomar's class as a second baseman, has an even bigger grievance.

I don't know. Their power numbers are similar, but Alomar's batting average was more than twenty points higher. He also won several more Gold Gloves, and was phenomenal in the postseason (.313/.448/.829), whereas Whitaker was mediocre (.204/.306/.656). Whitaker was a good player, no question, but I tend to think of him the same way that I think of his teammates (Allan Trammel, Kirk Gibson, Lance Parrish, etc.). They were All Stars, but not HOF'ers.

chicagowhitesox1
01-10-2013, 11:36 PM
Lou Whitaker, who was in Alomar's class as a second baseman, has an even bigger grievance.

Yeah that's amazing how he was knocked off for failing to reach 5 percent in his first year eligible.

WLL1855
01-10-2013, 11:58 PM
Lou Whitaker, who was in Alomar's class as a second baseman, has an even bigger grievance.

I'm not sure Whitaker was in Alomar territory but I believe he was as good as Sandberg. That might be more of an indictment of Sandberg's HOF election than Whitaker's merit.

TaylorStSox
01-11-2013, 08:27 AM
The Sox need to start a campaign emphasizing Franks anti-PED stance. Remind the voters that he was one of the most outspoken players against steroids.

Lip Man 1
01-11-2013, 11:21 AM
That's an excellent idea, Taylor. Frank started making comments on this subject to the newspapers back in the late 90's.

Lip

shingo10
01-11-2013, 02:48 PM
The Sox need to start a campaign emphasizing Franks anti-PED stance. Remind the voters that he was one of the most outspoken players against steroids.


I honestly hope someone passes this along to the Sox organization so they can do it.

Lip Man 1
01-11-2013, 03:08 PM
Shingo:

Done and done.

Lip

rdivaldi
01-11-2013, 04:45 PM
The Sox need to start a campaign emphasizing Franks anti-PED stance. Remind the voters that he was one of the most outspoken players against steroids.

I agree 100%...

thomas35forever
01-11-2013, 05:39 PM
Not sure if Frank makes it first-ballot, but I'm sure he gets in the second year.

shingo10
01-11-2013, 06:38 PM
Shingo:

Done and done.

Lip


Awesome man.

Now hopefully somebody listens...great job WSI.

BigKlu59
01-12-2013, 03:11 PM
Frank Thomas belongs in the Hall of Fame. Its a shame he yeomanly went about his business and put up HOF numbers only to be overshadowed by his peers lack of ethics and whoreing to the media.

Baseball got the deal it signed with the devil. Now in its state of genuflection and repentence its gonna have to figure out how to deal with this era of chemically enhanced behemoths..

Frank played it straight. In reality, those are the numbers of a clean player for that era.. DH or no DH...


BK59

LITTLE NELL
01-12-2013, 03:43 PM
Frank Thomas belongs in the Hall of Fame. Its a shame he yeomanly went about his business and put up HOF numbers only to be overshadowed by his peers lack of ethics and whoreing to the media.

Baseball got the deal it signed with the devil. Now in its state of genuflection and repentence its gonna have to figure out how to deal with this era of chemically enhanced behemoths..

Frank played it straight. In reality, those are the numbers of a clean player for that era.. DH or no DH...


BK59

:thumbsup:

HomeFish
01-12-2013, 08:16 PM
The Sox used to show baby pictures of players on the scoreboard between innings, and have the crowd guess which player it was.

One day they showed this baby with a gigantic head, and everyone in the crowd knew exactly who it was. Anyone who sees that picture knows that Thomas didn't use PEDs.

JoeYoung
01-13-2013, 12:00 PM
Frank will get in first or second ballot. As long as those like Mr. Liptak remind national press type people Frank was adamantly anti-PED while producing monster numbers, his accomplishments in the "steroid era" will speak for themselves.

Deadguy
01-13-2013, 03:34 PM
The Sox used to show baby pictures of players on the scoreboard between innings, and have the crowd guess which player it was.

One day they showed this baby with a gigantic head, and everyone in the crowd knew exactly who it was. Anyone who sees that picture knows that Thomas didn't use PEDs.

You also just need to look at the numbers over the course of his career.

When Frank entered the league in 1990, his Adjusted OPS was 177, meaning that he was 77% better than the average hitter. That remained fairly consistant until 1998, with the strike shortened season being the one outlier. If he used PEDs, he should demand his money back, because I'm not seeing where his performance was ever enhanced, outside of the strike-shortened year.

When Thomas returned to form in 2000, he was only 63% better than the average hitter. The "average hitter" had improved so much by 2000 because of PEDs, which made Thomas's numbers less impressive compared to his peers. This is another way Thomas was hurt by PEDs.

His career is more in line with classic sluggers like Hank Greenberg, Johnny Mize and Jimmie Foxx.

As far as Bagwell goes, his numbers are not as straight forward. He went from hitting 20 homers in 1993 to having one of the highest slugging percentages since WWII in 1994.

A. Cavatica
01-13-2013, 08:54 PM
Don't forget, Frank was beaten out of another MVP award by Giambi.