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View Full Version : Ben Zobrist or Adam Lind? Per Phil Rogers 12/27/12


Brian26
12-27-2012, 02:44 PM
Phil Rogers hints in the Trib this morning (in his column about AJ leaving) that the Sox may try to acquire Ben Zobrist or Adam Lind.

In typical Phil Rogers' style, it's not mentioned whether this is an actual substantiated rumor from someone connected with the Sox or just something he made up because it sounds interesting.

Brian26
12-27-2012, 02:51 PM
Zobrist is 31 and a switch hitter. Lind is 29 and a LH hitter.

Zobrist can pretty much play anywhere on the field, but you have to wonder if he could replace Beckham at 2B or Rios in RF.

Lind is primarily 1B/DH and maybe LF (hasn't played out there since 2010 though). Seems a little redundant with Dunn and PK signed, unless Viciedo is shipped out.

Both guys are interesting thoughts.

DonnieDarko
12-27-2012, 02:54 PM
Getting Lind doesn't make sense: the Sox already got enough players at 1B. However, I'd have no problem with Zobrist as a utility player, I guess.

LITTLE NELL
12-27-2012, 03:07 PM
Getting Lind doesn't make sense: the Sox already got enough players at 1B. However, I'd have no problem with Zobrist as a utility player, I guess.

If we get Zobrist I doubt that it would be in a utility role. He has averaged 19 HRs and 83 RBIs the last 4 years while hitting .268.
I watch most of the Rays games and always liked him and always hoped he would wind up on the Southside. He was also born and raised in Eureka Illinois.

PalehosePlanet
12-27-2012, 03:45 PM
Not sure why Rogers believes the Rays would make Zobrist available. They just lost BJ Upton to free agency which leaves them with Zobrist, Jennings, and Joyce (coming off a bad year) in the outfield. If they trade Zobrist, they would start...who, Sam Fuld? I don't think so.

Besides, Tampa is hard to deal with in trades it seems. They've made other teams overpay mightily in recent years. I don't see this happening.

Domeshot17
12-27-2012, 04:44 PM
Zobrist makes a ton of sense!

Zobrist at 2b, Keppinger at 3b, Gordon off the bench in a utility role where he would be better suited, that would be hugggeeeee

kittle42
12-27-2012, 04:46 PM
Thrilling. The offseason race for third place continues.

johnnyg83
12-27-2012, 04:59 PM
I love Zobrist, but if it's Zobrist for Floyd, I'd defer.

SoxSpeed22
12-27-2012, 05:18 PM
Zobrist would be awesome, but I also don't understand why Tampa would make him available.

Frater Perdurabo
12-27-2012, 06:03 PM
Would the Rays want a presumably cheaper OF in return, such as Viciedo or DeAza? Or would they want prospects?

DSpivack
12-27-2012, 06:19 PM
I love Zobrist, but if it's Zobrist for Floyd, I'd defer.
Rays are deep at SP and wouldn't need to add one, let alone a mediocre one making just shy of $10 million.

SI1020
12-27-2012, 07:11 PM
If we get Zobrist I doubt that it would be in a utility role. He has averaged 19 HRs and 83 RBIs the last 4 years while hitting .268.
I watch most of the Rays games and always liked him and always hoped he would wind up on the Southside. He was also born and raised in Eureka Illinois. I like him too. He's versatile and productive.

dickallen15
12-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Ben Zobrist would cost a ton. If you are into advanced metrics, he is one of the most valuable players in baseball. If he is available, the Sox would be wise to inquire. I just think he is going to coast a lot more than what is posted here.

dickallen15
12-27-2012, 09:39 PM
I love Zobrist, but if it's Zobrist for Floyd, I'd defer.

If Gavin Floyd could get you Zobrist, you make the deal before the drugs wear off the Tampa people.

johnnyg83
12-27-2012, 11:08 PM
If Gavin Floyd could get you Zobrist, you make the deal before the drugs wear off the Tampa people.

Whoa, my bad, especially if you go by WAR -- even massive amounts of drugs may not be enough.

I was thinking Gavin's a relatively inexpensive starter who averages 29+ starts and may give them a 3 or 4 with some experience.

DaveFeelsRight
12-27-2012, 11:29 PM
Yeah, if the Rays would accept Floyd for Zobrist straight up then they must be on something.

DSpivack
12-27-2012, 11:44 PM
Whoa, my bad, especially if you go by WAR -- even massive amounts of drugs may not be enough.

I was thinking Gavin's a relatively inexpensive starter who averages 29+ starts and may give them a 3 or 4 with some experience.
I think Floyd can get us something back, but he just doesn't fit with the Rays.

geofitz
12-28-2012, 07:07 AM
Like "Little Nell" I watch many Rays games. Zobrist is their type of player--versatile, good defensively at several positions, a little speed, above average power. I don't believe there's any Sox position player that would net him in a head up deal. Floyd certainly doesn't seem to fit the Rays model. Their organization historically has been extremely deep in starting pitchers. Every season they debut a couple of youngsters that get their feet wet in the bigs and are ready to contribute quickly. Floyd and his $$$ won't be enjoying the sunset over the white sandy beaches.

getonbckthr
12-28-2012, 03:03 PM
I would assume Zobrist has to be nearing the end of his contract soon. Maybe Thornton, DeAza and a prospect? also if we were getting Zobrist that might indicate talks about Alexei and Tank as the main pieces to Arizona for Upton were somewhat realistic.

kittle42
12-28-2012, 03:10 PM
I would assume Zobrist has to be nearing the end of his contract soon.

Club options for '14 and '15.

russ99
12-28-2012, 07:49 PM
Zobrist would be a great fit for the Sox.

Two reasons the Rays entertain this - He's making $5.5M next season with a $7M option for 2014, i.e. getting priced out of their range for a secondary player and they need a cost-controlled power bat with Upton gone - which means Viciedo going the other way.

IMO, Viciedo alone wouldn't get a deal done for Zobrist, we'd probably have to throw in one of our OF prospects and/or a young reliever like Nate Jones.

The question for me is would the Sox risk Viciedo potentially equaling Zobrist's numbers in the near future - making the deal for a more refined and reliable hitter but one who's likely hitting FA in 1-2 more years?

If I were Hahn, I'd push for a younger player with more upside if they're thinking of dealing Viciedo.

dickallen15
12-28-2012, 10:04 PM
Zobrist would be a great fit for the Sox.

Two reasons the Rays entertain this - He's making $5.5M next season with a $7M option for 2014, i.e. getting priced out of their range for a secondary player and they need a cost-controlled power bat with Upton gone - which means Viciedo going the other way.

IMO, Viciedo alone wouldn't get a deal done for Zobrist, we'd probably have to throw in one of our OF prospects and/or a young reliever like Nate Jones.

The question for me is would the Sox risk Viciedo potentially equaling Zobrist's numbers in the near future - making the deal for a more refined and reliable hitter but one who's likely hitting FA in 1-2 more years?

If I were Hahn, I'd push for a younger player with more upside if they're thinking of dealing Viciedo.
He's not a secondary player. At 7.5 million in 2 years he is still one of the best bargains in baseball. This thread is way off what it would cost to acquire him, of he is even available. Please check Zobrist's numbers the past few seasons.

CoopaLoop
12-28-2012, 11:30 PM
On what planet is Ben Zobrist a utility player or a "secondary" player?

Four straight seasons of 600 plate appearances.

.297 .405 .543
.238 .346 .353
.269 .353 .469
.270 .377 .471

Brian26
12-28-2012, 11:58 PM
The question for me is would the Sox risk Viciedo potentially equaling Zobrist's numbers in the near future

I wouldn't worry too much about that happening.

russ99
12-29-2012, 12:31 AM
He's not a secondary player. At 7.5 million in 2 years he is still one of the best bargains in baseball. This thread is way off what it would cost to acquire him, of he is even available. Please check Zobrist's numbers the past few seasons.

I don't consider Zobrist a secondary player as far as performance or even value, my reasoning was his value vs. salary specifically for Tampa, since they are committed to pay Longoria $6M in 2013 with his salary going up every year to $7.5M in 2014, and $11M in 2015.

They've always had issues holding onto players when their salaries are raised to market level. They chose to let Upton go this offseason. For what Zobrist gives them on a raw numbers level, I don't see him staying with Tampa much longer.

Sure they could keep him for 1 or 2 more years, but then get nothing for him in FA, and they need an infusion of hitting talent that can take over some spots at the big league level and hold down positions at a lowered cost for a number of seasons.

Not sure if the Sox are that team even if we give them my suggested offer of Viciedo, Trayce Thompson or Keenyn Walker, and a young reliever like Nate Jones.

Since Zobrist is going to be paid $7M next year and a FA in 2 years, I don't see Tampa getting much more for him than that despite his good numbers.

dickallen15
12-29-2012, 08:12 AM
I don't consider Zobrist a secondary player as far as performance or even value, my reasoning was his value vs. salary specifically for Tampa, since they are committed to pay Longoria $6M in 2013 with his salary going up every year to $7.5M in 2014, and $11M in 2015.

They've always had issues holding onto players when their salaries are raised to market level. They chose to let Upton go this offseason. For what Zobrist gives them on a raw numbers level, I don't see him staying with Tampa much longer.

Sure they could keep him for 1 or 2 more years, but then get nothing for him in FA, and they need an infusion of hitting talent that can take over some spots at the big league level and hold down positions at a lowered cost for a number of seasons.

Not sure if the Sox are that team even if we give them my suggested offer of Viciedo, Trayce Thompson or Keenyn Walker, and a young reliever like Nate Jones.

Since Zobrist is going to be paid $7M next year and a FA in 2 years, I don't see Tampa getting much more for him than that despite his good numbers.

He is owed less than $20 million total the next 3 years. He has been one of the most valuable players in baseball the last 4 seasons. Fangraphs says his performance has averaged about $25 million a year. It would take a huge package to get him from Tampa. A lot bigger than anyone has mentioned. This thread is way off. He instantly would be the White Sox best player, and it really isn't even close. If he became available, every team would want him. They could do a lot better than the offers in this thread. People have no idea how good of a player this guy is.

moochpuppy
12-29-2012, 09:21 AM
The Sox don't have the players the Rays need anyway. Tampa needs middle infielders which the Sox don't have (good enough to get Zobrist). They Rays don't need pitching or OFers.

mzh
12-29-2012, 11:50 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about that happening.
You really don't think Dayan could potentially put up at least .268/19/83? That's what Zobrist averaged over the last 4 years. He'll never walk as much as Zobrist, but people here seem to undercut Viciedo's value as a 24 year old who despite his flaws can ****ing mash.

SephClone89
12-29-2012, 11:58 AM
You really don't think Dayan could potentially put up at least .268/19/83? That's what Zobrist averaged over the last 4 years. He'll never walk as much as Zobrist, but people here seem to undercut Viciedo's value as a 24 year old who despite his flaws can ****ing mash.

I'm not one of the Viciedo bashers by any means, but the thing that makes Zobrist signicantly more valuable is not only his OBP but his ability to play just about every position with some proficiency.

If Viciedo does get to that slash line(though that's not exactly the triple slash I would use) he'd definitely be considerably less valuable than Zobrist. He's a (poor to mediocre) corner outfielder, not an incredibly versatile middle infielder who can also play OF better than Viciedo.

russ99
12-29-2012, 02:53 PM
You really don't think Dayan could potentially put up at least .268/19/83? That's what Zobrist averaged over the last 4 years. He'll never walk as much as Zobrist, but people here seem to undercut Viciedo's value as a 24 year old who despite his flaws can ****ing mash.

Just because he can mash has little impact on his future value, there's tons of guys with power who didn't hit well enough otherwise to become an impact player.

If you want to have fun with numbers, how about these: Both players first full season in the majors - one at 22 and one at 23

Player 1 - 364 AB, 26 HR, 66 RBI, 108Ks, .259/.316/.527

Player 2 - 505 AB, 25 HR, 78 RBI, 120Ks, .255/.300/.444

Player 2 is Viciedo, player 1 is Willy Mo Pena, who had a better first year than Viciedo in 150 less ABs, and yet still fell off the map.

There is a possibility that Viciedo will break some his bad hitting habits, be more patient at the plate, go the other way against tough outside pitches, work his way to better hitter counts, strike out less, etc.

But until he does, he doesn't belong in the same breath as a guy like Zobrist, especially if that is just because some people are in love with the long ball.

Tragg
12-31-2012, 10:46 PM
Zobrist is 31 and a switch hitter. Lind is 29 and a LH hitter.

Zobrist can pretty much play anywhere on the field, but you have to wonder if he could replace Beckham at 2B or Rios in RF.

Lind is primarily 1B/DH and maybe LF (hasn't played out there since 2010 though). Seems a little redundant with Dunn and PK signed, unless Viciedo is shipped out.

Both guys are interesting thoughts.

Zobrist is high end utility talent. Not an impact bat we need.
Reminding me more and more of 2007.

dickallen15
01-01-2013, 06:34 AM
Zobrist is high end utility talent. Not an impact bat we need.
Reminding me more and more of 2007.

He put up an .848 OPS last year, .822 the year before that and .927 in 2009. High end utility? He would be the best player on the White Sox.

TheVulture
01-01-2013, 05:34 PM
He put up an .848 OPS last year, .822 the year before that and .927 in 2009. High end utility? He would be the best player on the White Sox.

In the sense he can cover a multitude of positions, Zobrist is a utility player. A very good utility player who should be playing 150 games a season.

I'd love to see him in a Sox uniform. Could use him as the fourth OFer, DH him against lefties and plug him for the various infielders. He could get 40 starts at DH, 40-50 in the OF, and plenty of starts in the infield to get him to 150, especially with Konerko presumably needing more time off over the next couple years. He'd move Wise into a more appropriate position of a late game sub and still allow the Sox to carry him as a 5th OFer where I think he would add a lot of value in that role. If guys like Beckham and Viciedo hit at a level where they should be starting 150+ games, you could just plug him in at third full time and move Keppinger into the utility role. This guy would be perfect fit, you could move him all around the lineup as needed as well.

TheVulture
01-01-2013, 05:39 PM
. They Rays don't need pitching or OFers.

You can never have too much pitching. I would imagine someone like Carlos Sanchez would have trade value, not that I'm advocating trading him, but to suggest the Sox don't have the pieces doesn't seem accurate to me.

A package of Floyd/Sanchez/Hawkins and say a young reliever such as Nate Jones couldn't garner a quality player? Not saying it would be worth it, but it's conceivable.

Tragg
01-01-2013, 08:58 PM
He put up an .848 OPS last year, .822 the year before that and .927 in 2009. High end utility? He would be the best player on the White Sox.

He's a good player. Gets on base and fair power. Kind of like Swisher (whom we had to pay out the wazzu for in terms of talent). At a fair price, sure.

PalehosePlanet
01-01-2013, 09:09 PM
As I said earlier, I don't believe this happens because Tampa just seems way too difficult to make deals with; they always want the other team to overpay in trades.

As far as Tampa not needing pitching: nonsense. According to sources they are looking for two relief pitchers. Something like Santiago and Jones might be able to get it done. But again, I don't see us approaching them for Zobrist.

asindc
01-01-2013, 10:22 PM
He put up an .848 OPS last year, .822 the year before that and .927 in 2009. High end utility? He would be the best player on the White Sox.

Sale and Rios are better.

dickallen15
01-02-2013, 07:19 AM
Sale and Rios are better.

There is no GM in baseball that would take Rios over Zobrist.

asindc
01-02-2013, 10:30 AM
There is no GM in baseball that would take Rios over Zobrist.

I disagree.

Tragg
01-02-2013, 11:08 AM
As I said earlier, I don't believe this happens because Tampa just seems way too difficult to make deals with; they always want the other team to overpay in trades.

As far as Tampa not needing pitching: nonsense. According to sources they are looking for two relief pitchers. Something like Santiago and Jones might be able to get it done. But again, I don't see us approaching them for Zobrist.

The trouble is, we need our young pitchers too. Don't need a bunch of Bruneys in our pen.

MISoxfan
01-02-2013, 02:19 PM
I disagree.

Zobrist doesn't fall off the face of the planet every other year. His 2010 was down, but not as down as Rios gets.

dickallen15
01-02-2013, 02:44 PM
Zobrist doesn't fall off the face of the planet every other year. His 2010 was down, but not as down as Rios gets.
Not only is he a better player than Rios and more reliable, he makes less money, and he can play every position.

Bob Roarman
01-02-2013, 05:38 PM
I disagree.

Me too. There are still dumb GMs out there that would take Rios over Zobrist.

Foulke You
01-03-2013, 06:27 PM
Not only is he a better player than Rios and more reliable, he makes less money, and he can play every position.
Just curious, would you say this statement with the same confidence if you could 100% know for sure that Rios would replicate his 2012 season every year? I realize you are using Alex's up and down career to argue on behalf of Zobrist and it is indeed a legit point. I'd give the edge to Rios as the better player if we are talking about the 2012 version. Rios is a legit 5 tool guy when he is "right". However, Zobrist probably does provide more value to a team considering the amount of positions he plays and his lower salary. Assuming 2012 was the real Alex Rios, I still think he would probably the best position player on the White Sox even if Zobrist were here.

mahagga73
01-10-2013, 09:27 PM
If we get Zobrist I doubt that it would be in a utility role. He has averaged 19 HRs and 83 RBIs the last 4 years while hitting .268.
I watch most of the Rays games and always liked him and always hoped he would wind up on the Southside. He was also born and raised in Eureka Illinois.
yep, right outside Peoria about 15 miiles from me. He's a starter .