PDA

View Full Version : ESPN's top 100 MLB players.


chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 04:56 PM
They didn't discount steroids or character or count Negro League stats, only what players did in the field. These are the top 100.

Honorable mentions

125. Roy Campanella...3 MVPS should have him ranked higher even though he missed out alot of years due to integration.
124. Arky Vaughan....He's deff a top 100 player, I have him as 2nd or 3rd best shortstop of alltime.
123. Don Drysdale......Carl Hubbell and Ed Walsh are top 100. Drysdale is with Catfish Hunter, Jim Bunning and Early Wynn
122. Edgar Martinez...One of the ESPN voters felt he deserved top 100 and that voter is probably why this list is off.
121. Ed Delahanty.....19th century guys are gonna get snubbed no matter what. He should be higher though.
120. Billy Williams
119. Rube Waddell
118. Lou Boureau
117. Sam Crawford
116. Dennis Eckersley
115. Tim Keefe
114. Goerge Sisler...always liked him but I really can't argue.
113. Bill Dickey
112. Ryne Sandberg.....Same voter who wanted Edgar Martinez in top 100 wanted Sandberg as top 100 too.
111. Pud Galvin......for 19th century pitchers John Clarkson is usually regarded as a top 5 so Pud Galvin shouldn't be on this list.
110. Harry Heilmann
109. Don Sutton
108. Rafael Palmeiro....Honestly if theyr'e not discounting steroids I would think he would be higher.
107. Johnny Mize.....Huge snub, he's at least top 75 maybe top 60.
106. Whitey Ford
105. Curt Schilling
104. Dave Winfield
103. Eddie Plank.....He's a pretty big snub for top 100 too.
102. Joe Jackson....He's deff deserving of top 100 but short career and obvious reasons probably hurt him. I would have him top between 80 and 90.
101. Luke Appling
.....................................
100. Phil Niekro
99. Al Simmons
98. Joe Cronin
97. Ron Santo....He is a top 6 thirdbaseman but I don't think he makes my top 100.
96. Tim Raines....He's deff a saber god but he wouldn't make my list either.
95. Sammy Sosa.....There is no way he makes my list even without discounting peds.
94. Jim Thome
93. Tom Glavine
92. Roy Halladay....I like him but its hard to include him since he's not finished yet.
91. Paul Waner
90. Craig Biggio......a bit of a compiler, he's ranked a little high.
89. Jim Palmer
88. Cap Anson
87. Frankie Frisch
86. Gary Carter
85. Manny Ramirez
84. Willie Stargell
83. Mark McGwire
82. Kid Nichols
81. Duke Snider
80. Charlie Gehringer
79. Robin Roberts....ranked a little high
78. Mike Piazza.....I would take him over Fisk.
77. Paul Molitor
76. Carlton Fisk....I think both Carter and Piazza were better.
75. John Smoltz....He's deff ranked too high.
74. Barry Larkin....overrated
73. Roberto Alomar.....overrated
72. Bert Blyleven
71. Ivan Rodriguez
70. Juan Marichal
69. Frank Thomas....not trying to be biased but he should be a little higher.
68. Jeff Bagwell
67. Mariano Rivera
66. Gaylord Perry
65. Eddie Murray
64. Harmon Killebrew
63. Hank Greenberg
62. Fergie Jenkins
61. Tony Gwynn
60. Ozzie Smith....I'm starting to like his career more but he's probably a little high.
59. Bob Feller
58. Robin Yount
57. Willie McCovey
56. Yogi Berra
55. Reggie Jackson
54. Wade Boggs
53. Rod Carew......Boggs was better.
52. Jackie Robinson.....He deff would have been a top player but discounting Mize and Campanella isn't really fair.
51. Ernie Banks
50. Pete Alexander......Ridiculous, one of the best pitchers of all time.
49. Chipper Jones
48. Nap Lajoie.....underrated, third best 2ndbasema of alltime.
47. Lefty Grove.....another strange pick...hands down the best lefty ever.
46. Al Kaline
45. Warren Spahn
44. Sandy Koufax...good peak but no way better than Grove or Spahn careerwise.
43. Brooks Robinson....no way should he be in the top 50 let alone top 43.
42. Eddie Collins..he's a top 20-25 player for me.
41. Pedro Martinez
40. Carl Yastrzemski
39. Eddie Mathews
38. Derek Jeter....I'm surprised ESPN didn't put him in the top 20. overrated.
37. Pete Rose....he should be in the 70-80 range.
36. Mel Ott
35. Nolan Ryan....same with Pete Rose, 70-80 range.
34. Ken Griffey Jr. he's a little high for me.
33. Roberto Clemente...he should be where Kaline is ranked but since he's the saint of baseball he's gonna be ranked alot higher.
32. Bob Gibson
31. Cal Ripken Jr....I wouldn't put him this high
30. Goerge Brett
29. Christy Mathewson
28. Jimmy Foxx.....He would make my top 20.
27. Johnny Bench
26. Steve Carlton....does ESPN really feel he's the 2nd best lefty of alltime..Big mistake here.
25. Tris Speaker
24. Tom Seaver
23. Randy Johnson....he's ranked a little high, i'd have Speaker over him.
22. Frank Robinson
21. Joe DiMaggio....he's somewhat glorified but he's top 25.
20. Joe Morgan.....I don't think so but these saber guys love him.
19. Albert Pujols....Its still too early to put him in the top 20.
18. Alex Rodriguez
17. Cy Young...I don't really agree but its not a horrible choice.
16. Mike Schmidt
15. Roger Hornsby
14. Rickey Henderson
13. Greg Maddux
12. Walter Johnson...I would pick him over Clemens
11. Lou Gehrig
10. Honus Wagner
9. Mickey Mantle....I'd switch Gehrig and him
8. Stan Musial
7. Roger Clemens
6. Ty Cobb...he's better than Aaron
5. Hank Aaron
4. Ted Williams
3. Barry Bonds...I would take him over Mays but Mays is still a good choice.
2. Willie Mays
1. Babe Ruth

sullythered
12-13-2012, 05:06 PM
Gary Carter was not better than Pudge. Piazza was a better hitter, but who's to say why <taps nose>.

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 05:19 PM
Gary Carter was not better than Pudge. Piazza was a better hitter, but who's to say why <taps nose>.

Gary Carter in 19 seasons
66.4 war
11 allstars
4 top 10 mvps
5 silver sluggers

Carlton Fisk in 24 seasons
63.7 war
11 allstars
3 top 10 mvps
3 silver sluggers

I would pick Carter but its not a huge differance. Carter was a much better defensive catcher too.

TheVulture
12-13-2012, 06:04 PM
Barry Bonds is probably seething right now.

Until Pujols leads his team to a World Series victory on the mound, I have no problem with Ruth at #1. That will always give him the edge over everybody.

RKMeibalane
12-13-2012, 06:15 PM
Frank Thomas should be higher on that list. The DH may have been held against him.

I have Stan Musial in my top five, as he ranks only second to Ted Williams among the best pure hitters of all time. Phenomenal.

TheVulture
12-13-2012, 06:25 PM
I was just looking at Jimmie Foxx and wondering how he's any different from some of the guys in the top 10, I noticed his trade from Philadelphia to Boston had to be one of the worst trades of all time.

Traded along with Johnny Marcum for George Savino, Gordon Rhodes and cash. Rhodes pitched one season for the A's, lost 20 games with a 5.74 ernie and then retired. It's not like that was a huge drop off, he went 2 and 10 with an ERA of 5.41 with the Red Sox the year before. Marcum was as good or better than Rhodes ever was. Savino was a career minor league journeyman who never made the majors and didn't even reach AAA until age 36, some ten years later.

roylestillman
12-13-2012, 06:28 PM
Not getting to Bob Gibson until 32 is nuts. They changed the rules of the game because of his dominance.

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 06:35 PM
Not getting to Bob Gibson until 32 is nuts. They changed the rules of the game because of his dominance.

When they raised the mound I doubt Gibson would have dominated like he did. I think Gibson is ranked pretty well.

I wanna know where Mickey Cochrane is, I always had him as a top 3 catcher.

WhiteSox5187
12-13-2012, 06:53 PM
When they raised the mound I doubt Gibson would have dominated like he did. I think Gibson is ranked pretty well.

I wanna know where Mickey Cochrane is, I always had him as a top 3 catcher.

Well the first year they lowered the mound Gibson put up a 2.18 ERA with a 1.102 WHIP and 269 Ks (one more than he had in 1968). I'd say that is pretty dominant. Gibson pretty much dominated until he was 38 in 1974 and even then he still threw 240 innings with 3.83 ERA.

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 06:54 PM
I was just looking at Jimmie Foxx and wondering how he's any different from some of the guys in the top 10, I noticed his trade from Philadelphia to Boston had to be one of the worst trades of all time.

Traded along with Johnny Marcum for George Savino, Gordon Rhodes and cash. Rhodes pitched one season for the A's, lost 20 games with a 5.74 ernie and then retired. It's not like that was a huge drop off, he went 2 and 10 with an ERA of 5.41 with the Red Sox the year before. Marcum was as good or better than Rhodes ever was. Savino was a career minor league journeyman who never made the majors and didn't even reach AAA until age 36, some ten years later.


That was more Connie Mack dumping salarys because he was broke on why Foxx got traded.

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 06:56 PM
Well the first year they lowered the mound Gibson put up a 2.18 ERA with a 1.102 WHIP and 269 Ks (one more than he had in 1968). I'd say that is pretty dominant. Gibson pretty much dominated until he was 38 in 1974 and even then he still threw 240 innings with 3.83 ERA.


He was deff still great but I don't see a 1.12 era in 68 which makes him seem better than what he was.

WhiteSox5187
12-13-2012, 07:00 PM
He was deff still great but I don't see a 1.12 era in 68 which makes him seem better than what he was.

Well, no he never replicated his 1968 numbers again but you have to go back to the dead ball era to find numbers like that. Gibson has got to be in the discussion for top ten pitchers of all time.

sullythered
12-13-2012, 07:03 PM
When they raised the mound I doubt Gibson would have dominated like he did. I think Gibson is ranked pretty well.

I wanna know where Mickey Cochrane is, I always had him as a top 3 catcher.

I assume you mean lowered the mound.

The year they lowered the mound, Bob Gibson was 20-13 with a 2.18 ERA and a 1.10 WHIP with 269 K's at 33 years of age. Oh, and he had a 11.2 WAR that year.

I'm 33, but my dad still says, if his life depended on a pitcher getting a guy out, he would pick Bob Gibson, in his prime.

Edit: somebody beat me to the punch while I was typing...

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 07:14 PM
Well, no he never replicated his 1968 numbers again but you have to go back to the dead ball era to find numbers like that. Gibson has got to be in the discussion for top ten pitchers of all time.


Yeah he's right there as a top 10.

1. Walter Johnson
2. Greg maddux
3. Pete Alexander
4. Lefty Grove
5. Christy Mathewson
6. Tom Seaver
7. Cy Young
8. Roger Clemens-PED dedeuction
9. Randy Johnson
10. Warren Spahn
11. Bob Gibson...I can see anywhere between 9-12
12. Pedro Martinez
13. Kid Nichols
14. Carl Hubbell....didn't even make the list for ESPN
15. Bob Feller

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 07:17 PM
I assume you mean lowered the mound.

The year they lowered the mound, Bob Gibson was 20-13 with a 2.18 ERA and a 1.10 WHIP with 269 K's at 33 years of age. Oh, and he had a 11.2 WAR that year.

I'm 33, but my dad still says, if his life depended on a pitcher getting a guy out, he would pick Bob Gibson, in his prime.

Edit: somebody beat me to the punch while I was typing...


Your dad like my dad would probably say Koufax was the best lefthander of alltime.

I did mean lowered the mound too.

Bucky F. Dent
12-13-2012, 10:26 PM
So my loathing blinded me to the fact that I was watching the 7th best player of all time (Clemens)?

Boondock Saint
12-13-2012, 11:19 PM
So my loathing blinded me to the fact that I was watching the 7th best player of all time (Clemens)?

Same here. I don't think he belongs nearly that high. He certainly isn't the greatest pitcher of all time.

WhiteSox5187
12-13-2012, 11:23 PM
Same here. I don't think he belongs nearly that high. He certainly isn't the greatest pitcher of all time.

Well he played for both the Yankees and the Red Sox so that accounts for a lot of bonus points with ESPN.

GABP
12-13-2012, 11:34 PM
Jeter at 32 is terrible. So overrated

getonbckthr
12-14-2012, 12:07 AM
Griffey should be top 10. When he was healthy he was the closest thing to perfect on a baseball field.

Mr. Jinx
12-14-2012, 12:27 AM
Well he played for both the Yankees and the Red Sox so that accounts for a lot of bonus points with ESPN.

Winning 7 Cy Youngs and 1 MVP certainly doesn't hurt either.

TDog
12-14-2012, 01:52 AM
Frank Thomas should be higher on that list. The DH may have been held against him.

I have Stan Musial in my top five, as he ranks only second to Ted Williams among the best pure hitters of all time. Phenomenal.

If you are talking best players of all time, you should be holding DHing against men who made the list. By all accounts, Williams was a better hitter than Barry Bonds, but Bonds was higher on the list because of his defense. Nohwere do more people think more of Bonds than San Francisco, but few San Francisco fans would rank Bonds higher than Mays.

I might have put Mays ahead of Ruth (although I never saw Ruth play) if Ruth hadn't pitched so well, once holding the record for consecutive shutout World Series innings, 29.2.

Of course, the list really doesn't mean anything. Shoeless Joe Jackson was a better player than Derek Jeter, or even Reggie Jackson.

chicagowhitesox1
12-14-2012, 03:40 AM
Griffey should be top 10. When he was healthy he was the closest thing to perfect on a baseball field.

No way is he a top 10 player. He should actually be a little lower in this list.

chicagowhitesox1
12-14-2012, 03:45 AM
If you are talking best players of all time, you should be holding DHing against men who made the list. By all accounts, Williams was a better hitter than Barry Bonds, but Bonds was higher on the list because of his defense. Nohwere do more people think more of Bonds than San Francisco, but few San Francisco fans would rank Bonds higher than Mays.

I might have put Mays ahead of Ruth (although I never saw Ruth play) if Ruth hadn't pitched so well, once holding the record for consecutive shutout World Series innings, 29.2.

Of course, the list really doesn't mean anything. Shoeless Joe Jackson was a better player than Derek Jeter, or even Reggie Jackson.

The thing about this is Joe Jackson just didn't have the career as the players you mentioned. Would he have been better, no question he would have been. Should he be top 100? I personally feel he's a no doubt top 100 player.

It's hard to say with Frisco fans picking Mays over Bonds. I feel most of em nowdays are pretty biased towards Bonds. I also think think Yankee fans take a back seat to the arrogance of SF fans.

chicagowhitesox1
12-14-2012, 03:47 AM
Winning 7 Cy Youngs and 1 MVP certainly doesn't hurt either.

Since these guys aren't holding PED's as a factor you are 100 percent right.

MrT27
12-14-2012, 08:06 AM
Not sure what the criteria is for this list, if you had to have been a MLB player. But it's a crime that Josh Gibson is no where to be found on here.

chicagowhitesox1
12-14-2012, 01:27 PM
Not sure what the criteria is for this list, if you had to have been a MLB player. But it's a crime that Josh Gibson is no where to be found on here.

They only used Major League stats. One of the writers did talk about the stars of the Negro Leagues. I think Gibson and Charleston would be top 10-15 players if they were allowed to play. But it is hard to rank them without knowing what they did on a MLB field. Josh Gibson could have been another Bo Jackson, I think he woulda been more like Ruth or Foxx but it still is hard to say.

DoItForDanPasqua
12-15-2012, 05:32 PM
They didn't discount steroids or character or count Negro League stats, only what players did in the field. These are the top 100.

Honorable mentions

125. Roy Campanella...3 MVPS should have him ranked higher even though he missed out alot of years due to integration.
124. Arky Vaughan....He's deff a top 100 player, I have him as 2nd or 3rd best shortstop of alltime.
123. Don Drysdale......Carl Hubbell and Ed Walsh are top 100. Drysdale is with Catfish Hunter, Jim Bunning and Early Wynn
122. Edgar Martinez...One of the ESPN voters felt he deserved top 100 and that voter is probably why this list is off.
121. Ed Delahanty.....19th century guys are gonna get snubbed no matter what. He should be higher though.
120. Billy Williams
119. Rube Waddell
118. Lou Boureau
117. Sam Crawford
116. Dennis Eckersley
115. Tim Keefe
114. Goerge Sisler...always liked him but I really can't argue.
113. Bill Dickey
112. Ryne Sandberg.....Same voter who wanted Edgar Martinez in top 100 wanted Sandberg as top 100 too.
111. Pud Galvin......for 19th century pitchers John Clarkson is usually regarded as a top 5 so Pud Galvin shouldn't be on this list.
110. Harry Heilmann
109. Don Sutton
108. Rafael Palmeiro....Honestly if theyr'e not discounting steroids I would think he would be higher.
107. Johnny Mize.....Huge snub, he's at least top 75 maybe top 60.
106. Whitey Ford
105. Curt Schilling
104. Dave Winfield
103. Eddie Plank.....He's a pretty big snub for top 100 too.
102. Joe Jackson....He's deff deserving of top 100 but short career and obvious reasons probably hurt him. I would have him top between 80 and 90.
101. Luke Appling
.....................................
100. Phil Niekro
99. Al Simmons
98. Joe Cronin
97. Ron Santo....He is a top 6 thirdbaseman but I don't think he makes my top 100.
96. Tim Raines....He's deff a saber god but he wouldn't make my list either.
95. Sammy Sosa.....There is no way he makes my list even without discounting peds.
94. Jim Thome
93. Tom Glavine
92. Roy Halladay....I like him but its hard to include him since he's not finished yet.
91. Paul Waner
90. Craig Biggio......a bit of a compiler, he's ranked a little high.
89. Jim Palmer
88. Cap Anson
87. Frankie Frisch
86. Gary Carter
85. Manny Ramirez
84. Willie Stargell
83. Mark McGwire
82. Kid Nichols
81. Duke Snider
80. Charlie Gehringer
79. Robin Roberts....ranked a little high
78. Mike Piazza.....I would take him over Fisk.
77. Paul Molitor
76. Carlton Fisk....I think both Carter and Piazza were better.
75. John Smoltz....He's deff ranked too high.
74. Barry Larkin....overrated
73. Roberto Alomar.....overrated
72. Bert Blyleven
71. Ivan Rodriguez
70. Juan Marichal
69. Frank Thomas....not trying to be biased but he should be a little higher.
68. Jeff Bagwell
67. Mariano Rivera
66. Gaylord Perry
65. Eddie Murray
64. Harmon Killebrew
63. Hank Greenberg
62. Fergie Jenkins
61. Tony Gwynn
60. Ozzie Smith....I'm starting to like his career more but he's probably a little high.
59. Bob Feller
58. Robin Yount
57. Willie McCovey
56. Yogi Berra
55. Reggie Jackson
54. Wade Boggs
53. Rod Carew......Boggs was better.
52. Jackie Robinson.....He deff would have been a top player but discounting Mize and Campanella isn't really fair.
51. Ernie Banks
50. Pete Alexander......Ridiculous, one of the best pitchers of all time.
49. Chipper Jones
48. Nap Lajoie.....underrated, third best 2ndbasema of alltime.
47. Lefty Grove.....another strange pick...hands down the best lefty ever.
46. Al Kaline
45. Warren Spahn
44. Sandy Koufax...good peak but no way better than Grove or Spahn careerwise.
43. Brooks Robinson....no way should he be in the top 50 let alone top 43.
42. Eddie Collins..he's a top 20-25 player for me.
41. Pedro Martinez
40. Carl Yastrzemski
39. Eddie Mathews
38. Derek Jeter....I'm surprised ESPN didn't put him in the top 20. overrated.
37. Pete Rose....he should be in the 70-80 range.
36. Mel Ott
35. Nolan Ryan....same with Pete Rose, 70-80 range.
34. Ken Griffey Jr. he's a little high for me.
33. Roberto Clemente...he should be where Kaline is ranked but since he's the saint of baseball he's gonna be ranked alot higher.
32. Bob Gibson
31. Cal Ripken Jr....I wouldn't put him this high
30. Goerge Brett
29. Christy Mathewson
28. Jimmy Foxx.....He would make my top 20.
27. Johnny Bench
26. Steve Carlton....does ESPN really feel he's the 2nd best lefty of alltime..Big mistake here.
25. Tris Speaker
24. Tom Seaver
23. Randy Johnson....he's ranked a little high, i'd have Speaker over him.
22. Frank Robinson
21. Joe DiMaggio....he's somewhat glorified but he's top 25.
20. Joe Morgan.....I don't think so but these saber guys love him.
19. Albert Pujols....Its still too early to put him in the top 20.
18. Alex Rodriguez
17. Cy Young...I don't really agree but its not a horrible choice.
16. Mike Schmidt
15. Roger Hornsby
14. Rickey Henderson
13. Greg Maddux
12. Walter Johnson...I would pick him over Clemens
11. Lou Gehrig
10. Honus Wagner
9. Mickey Mantle....I'd switch Gehrig and him
8. Stan Musial
7. Roger Clemens
6. Ty Cobb...he's better than Aaron
5. Hank Aaron
4. Ted Williams
3. Barry Bonds...I would take him over Mays but Mays is still a good choice.
2. Willie Mays
1. Babe Ruth

Great point about Arky Vaughan; I think he should be ranked higher than Jeter. I'm also a little surprised about Berra not being given a better ranking.

DoItForDanPasqua
12-15-2012, 05:40 PM
The thing about this is Joe Jackson just didn't have the career as the players you mentioned. Would he have been better, no question he would have been. Should he be top 100? I personally feel he's a no doubt top 100 player.

It's hard to say with Frisco fans picking Mays over Bonds. I feel most of em nowdays are pretty biased towards Bonds. I also think think Yankee fans take a back seat to the arrogance of SF fans.

It's difficult to rank someone who did not play for many years as with Shoeless Joe. One cannot assume he will play at the same level and simply fill in the blanks. This is unfortunate for players who got injured (Al Rosen), those who fought in wars (Virgil Trucks), and those who got into trouble (Jackson). Still, during his 12 years, he complied the third highest batting average of all time and was definitely one of the great hitters of the deadball era. He belongs in the top 100.

chicagowhitesox1
12-15-2012, 06:11 PM
It's difficult to rank someone who did not play for many years as with Shoeless Joe. One cannot assume he will play at the same level and simply fill in the blanks. This is unfortunate for players who got injured (Al Rosen), those who fought in wars (Virgil Trucks), and those who got into trouble (Jackson). Still, during his 12 years, he complied the third highest batting average of all time and was definitely one of the great hitters of the deadball era. He belongs in the top 100.

I agree, it's too bad he didn't get to play longer or at least started earlier. The Philadelphia A's would have been a force if he never got homesick during his first few years.

I always thought those WW2 players should get more consideration for the hof. Cecil Travis, Mickey Vernon, Johnny Pesky in my opinion should already be in. I always thought Cecil Travis and his case for the Hall of Fame was interesting yet he's completly forgotten to the veterans commitee.

chicagowhitesox1
12-15-2012, 08:23 PM
Great point about Arky Vaughan; I think he should be ranked higher than Jeter. I'm also a little surprised about Berra not being given a better ranking.

I still can't believe they didn't include Mickey Cochrane. I have the best catchers as...

1. Johnny Bench
2. Yogi Berra
3. Mickey Cochrane...I guess he was kind of a jerk at times but great all around catcher.
4. Ivan Rodriguez.....Not deducting steroids
5. Mike Piazza....He actually called a good game. Defense hurts him a bit but he wasn't as bad as some think.
6. Gay Carter
7. Gabby Hartnett....Pretty underrated, He threw out 50% of base stealers.
8. Bill Dickey
9. Roy Campanella....Hate to put him so low.
10. Carlton Fisk.....I hate to rank him so low but I really feel these guys were better.

Zakath
12-15-2012, 08:49 PM
Same here. I don't think he belongs nearly that high. He certainly isn't the greatest pitcher of all time.

+1. Definitely have Gibson, both Johnsons, and possibly Seaver and Carlton ahead of him (and it's a close call on Ryan).

chicagowhitesox1
12-16-2012, 03:08 AM
+1. Definitely have Gibson, both Johnsons, and possibly Seaver and Carlton ahead of him (and it's a close call on Ryan).

Walter Johnson, Tom Seaver, Randy Johnson and Bob Gibson are usually ranked in the top ten for all time pitchers. Steve Carlton is usually 15-20. Nolan Ryan is not really close to Roger Clemens. Without deducting Clemens for steroids he has a case for being the best pitcher of alltime. 354 wins, over 4000 strikeouts, a career era+ over 140 and the second highest career war among all time pitchers. (Cy Young has the highest career war but he pitched in a totally differant era.) Clemens pitched in Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium, Ryan pitched in a pitchers paradise most of his career. Clemens pitched in the steroid era and he had to pitch alot of games in a tough AL East division, Nolan Ryan pitched in a pitchers era against some pretty weak AL West and NL West teams. Now I'm guessing your deducting Clemens for his steroid use. I think everyone knows Clemens used but i'm pretty sure Nolan Ryan was using too. Ryan somehow gets a pass from using steroids. Fact #1 Nolan Ryan pitched for the Texas Rangers who were known for rampant steroid use. Fact #2 Nolans Ryans horse trainer got into trouble with the law for supplying steroids to a Texas college football team. Fact #3 Theres not too many pitchers who pitch effectively in there 40's unless your Roger Clemens or a knuckle ball pitcher. Nolan Ryan should be ranked in the 70's-80's range. He never won a Cy Young and he only made like 4 all star teams which tells you he wasn't even respected by his own generation. Meanwhile Roger Clemens has 7 Cy Youngs and Probably 15 all star appearances, I don't think theres any question Clemens is better.

I know the 7 no hitters Ryan threw look good but seven games shouldn't put you as a top 10 pitcher. Sammy Sosa has the most 3 homerun games and I doubt anyone will be calling him a top ten hitter anytime soon.

slavko
12-16-2012, 10:33 AM
They were in love with longevity as a criterion.

Deadguy
12-16-2012, 12:46 PM
Frank Thomas should be higher on that list. The DH may have been held against him.




I thought his ranking was fair. There are some guys behind him that should be ahead of him, and vice a versa.

He is in the 80s in career WAR.

palehosepub
12-17-2012, 12:21 PM
How could Bagwell be ahead of Frank? Ask 100 knowledegable, unbiased baseball fans who was the better player and I'll bet 80 would pick Thomas.

Thomas will be a Hall of Famer, Bagwell will not be.

asindc
12-17-2012, 12:51 PM
How could Bagwell be ahead of Frank? Ask 100 knowledegable, unbiased baseball fans who was the better player and I'll bet 80 would pick Thomas.

Thomas will be a Hall of Famer, Bagwell will not be.

Actually, Bagwell might be selected for the HoF, but Frank was the better player. I think Frank should be higher on this list and Jeter lower.

SephClone89
12-18-2012, 08:53 AM
How could Bagwell be ahead of Frank? Ask 100 knowledegable, unbiased baseball fans who was the better player and I'll bet 80 would pick Thomas.

Thomas will be a Hall of Famer, Bagwell will not be.

Actually, Bagwell might be selected for the HoF, but Frank was the better player. I think Frank should be higher on this list and Jeter lower.

They're a lot closer than you think...

Thomas was a better hitter, but Bagwell played better defense and was a great baserunner, especially for a first baseman. Plus, Thomas DHing for a large part of his career is a knock against him as an overall player.

I'll take Thomas, but I'm not going to throw a fit if someone picks Bagwell.

They're both among the best 1B of all time and both should make the Hall.