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Domeshot17
12-13-2012, 02:32 PM
5 years 125 mil

Trout-Pujols-Hamilton one of the best 3-4-5 ever (or 2-3-4?)

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/8744414/josh-hamilton-agreed-deal-angels-sources-say

hoosiersoxfan
12-13-2012, 02:35 PM
Wow these LA teams are spending like Crazy. Trout, Pujols, Hamilton, Trumbo, Morales is a scary scary lineup. Glad the Sox don't face them 18 times a year

DeadMoney
12-13-2012, 02:39 PM
White Sox Twist: I wonder if there'll be any discussions about Bourjos now. I'd love to make a run at him (for Floyd..?).

SephClone89
12-13-2012, 02:39 PM
Are the Rangers in trouble?

ChiSoxGal85
12-13-2012, 02:41 PM
White Sox Twist: I wonder if there'll be any discussions about Bourjos now. I'd love to make a run at him (for Floyd..?).
I was thinking the same thing.

Foulke You
12-13-2012, 02:49 PM
White Sox Twist: I wonder if there'll be any discussions about Bourjos now. I'd love to make a run at him (for Floyd..?).
Agreed. It's not out of the realm of possibility they would have interest in Floyd after losing some pitching depth with Grienke and Santana. Back to the thread topic though...mercy, what a lineup the Angels are going to have.

KRS1
12-13-2012, 02:54 PM
White Sox Twist: I wonder if there'll be any discussions about Bourjos now. I'd love to make a run at him (for Floyd..?).
Meh, I keep Floyd over a faster Gordon Beckham.

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 02:58 PM
It looks like a great lineup but this could go South pretty quick.

-Pujols isn't the same player, his ops has gone down each of last three years so he probably is on a decline and he's at the age where this starts to happen.
-Hamilton was pretty inconsistent during the 2nd half last year and he is injury prone.
Trout should be good and should adjust well but the scouts did catch up to him at the end last year so I find it hard to believe he can repeat last year.

Lip Man 1
12-13-2012, 03:02 PM
Wow. Amazing what TV money can do for a franchise isn't it?

At least he's not with the Yankees or Red Sox. I have nothing against the Angels, never had.

Incredible (on paper) lineup.

Lip

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-13-2012, 03:07 PM
Wow. Amazing what TV money can do for a franchise isn't it?

At least he's not with the Yankees or Red Sox.

Lip

Or more importantly, the Tigers.

pythons007
12-13-2012, 03:08 PM
It looks like a great lineup but this could go South pretty quick.

-Pujols isn't the same player, his ops has gone down each of last three years so he probably is on a decline and he's at the age where this starts to happen.
-Hamilton was pretty inconsistent during the 2nd half last year and he is injury prone.
Trout should be good and should adjust well but the scouts did catch up to him at the end last year so I find it hard to believe he can repeat last year.

Players don't just bottom out. Not to mention his line was still awesome. I'm not sure how he isn't the same player. Not to mention he didn't hit his first homer until May. I think he was pressing a lot last year because of that monster contract. I'll be he's closer to his "normal" numbers next year.

amsteel
12-13-2012, 03:08 PM
The Astros might lose 130 games.

russ99
12-13-2012, 03:12 PM
The Astros might lose 130 games.

So that's 32-130? That's ludicrous. With their best prospects coming up they could lose less that 100.

VMSNS
12-13-2012, 03:16 PM
That'll be a scary, scary lineup (if Hamilton can stay healthy).

25 million a year doesn't surprise me, but the 5 year contract does.

thomas35forever
12-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Wow. I feel bad for the Rangers. Their window might have just shut. I'm wondering if choking away the West and then losing the Wild Card Game had to do with Hamilton jumping ship. Great day to be an Angels fan though.

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 03:30 PM
Players don't just bottom out. Not to mention his line was still awesome. I'm not sure how he isn't the same player. Not to mention he didn't hit his first homer until May. I think he was pressing a lot last year because of that monster contract. I'll be he's closer to his "normal" numbers next year.

At age 33 its not uncommon for players to lose their skills pretty fast. Each of the last 5 years Pujols has dropped in ops, obp and slg. He's never going to be the same player he once was unless he pulls a Barry Bonds. He did end up having a good year but he's never gonna be a 175 ops+ type of hitter again. If he stays healthy he'll end up between 135 and 140 ops which is still great but nothing like what he used to put up.

Alot of people seem to think he's not 33 either but somewhere between 35 and 36 which will make it even more difficult for him to stay healthy. I just don't think this lineup is as scary as it looks.

Lip Man 1
12-13-2012, 03:37 PM
It's been a great "day" for the Angel fans ever since Moreno bought the club.

Lip

soxfanatlanta
12-13-2012, 03:46 PM
I was expecting a 4 year gig, but 5?

Sheesh.

getonbckthr
12-13-2012, 04:10 PM
A friend of mine went to school with a guy who is a trainer for the Angels. He said this is part of another big move they are planning. My thoughts with what was said in Tampa in the past week about David Price wanting top dollar, how about Trumbo and prospects for Price? Also how quick does Texas make a snap judgement and trade Andrus for Upton?

LoveYourSuit
12-13-2012, 04:14 PM
Wow. I feel bad for the Rangers. Their window might have just shut. I'm wondering if choking away the West and then losing the Wild Card Game had to do with Hamilton jumping ship. Great day to be an Angels fan though.

The Rangers still have the money to compte.

Don't feel bad for them.

Feel bad for the AL Central.

The East and West because of money will buy playoff slots every year going forward.

Still have to play 162, but their odds are better.


The AL Central might not see a Wild Card in a long time.

DSpivack
12-13-2012, 04:22 PM
A friend of mine went to school with a guy who is a trainer for the Angels. He said this is part of another big move they are planning. My thoughts with what was said in Tampa in the past week about David Price wanting top dollar, how about Trumbo and prospects for Price? Also how quick does Texas make a snap judgement and trade Andrus for Upton?
I think Dickey may be more realistic than Price.

Chez
12-13-2012, 04:51 PM
You just never know. Last year when the Angels picked up Pujols and C.J. Wilson, I thought they would be unbeatable. When the Tigers signed Prince Fielder, I thought the Sox would finish 20 games out. You still have to play the games.

amsteel
12-13-2012, 05:04 PM
The AL Central might not see a Wild Card in a long time.

That's nothing new, there's been one once in 18 years.

Saracen
12-13-2012, 05:05 PM
The Angels will have so much fun when Hamilton goes into a slump because he switched from Diet Coke to Diet Pepsi, or his glove isn't quite the right color, or his sunglasses don't fit correctly, or....whatever his crazy issue of the month happens to be. And oh yeah, when he goes into a slump for 3 months and swings at every pitch thrown, regardless of location.

doublem23
12-13-2012, 05:24 PM
Players don't just bottom out.

Adam Dunn says hello

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 05:26 PM
The Angels will have so much fun when Hamilton goes into a slump because he switched from Diet Coke to Diet Pepsi, or his glove isn't quite the right color, or his sunglasses don't fit correctly, or....whatever his crazy issue of the month happens to be. And oh yeah, when he goes into a slump for 3 months and swings at every pitch thrown, regardless of location.

Yeah he kinda came out of that slump later in the year but I think your right, he's got some head issues.

palehozenychicty
12-13-2012, 07:27 PM
It's been a great "day" for the Angel fans ever since Moreno bought the club.

Lip

They have contended, but not returned to the series since he bought the team. He has invested deeply, but it's been 11 years.

Lip Man 1
12-13-2012, 07:30 PM
Pale:

They have consistently been a real contender and have made numerous playoff appearances. Can't speak for you or any other Sox fan but as for me, I'd take that in a heartbeat. To say nothing of the fact that Moreno refuses to accept the 'status quo' (i.e. the Angels were second class citizens in SoCal) and is doing something about it.

Lip

cards press box
12-13-2012, 07:41 PM
White Sox Twist: I wonder if there'll be any discussions about Bourjos now. I'd love to make a run at him (for Floyd..?).

Great thought. A great defender and a hitter who could lead off or bat second, Peter Bourjos would fit in nicely with the Sox. In the one season where he played every day, Bourjos had 26 doubles, 11 triples, 12 homers and 22 stolen bases.

He would give the Sox more athleticism at the plate and in the field. And he is a local kid, to boot.

The Sox should explore this.

It looks like a great lineup but this could go South pretty quick.

-Pujols isn't the same player, his ops has gone down each of last three years so he probably is on a decline and he's at the age where this starts to happen.
-Hamilton was pretty inconsistent during the 2nd half last year and he is injury prone.
Trout should be good and should adjust well but the scouts did catch up to him at the end last year so I find it hard to believe he can repeat last year.

My concern about Hamilton is this: he has thrived playing in Arlington, Texas. Los Angeles is a much bigger stage and the contract is enormous. It is difficult to predict how he responds to this new situation.

The AL Central might not see a Wild Card in a long time.

We'll see. The L.A. Angels were supposed to run away and hide last year, too. They finished 3rd.

chicagowhitesox1
12-13-2012, 08:00 PM
Great thought. A great defender and a hitter who could lead off or bat second, Peter Bourjos would fit in nicely with the Sox. In the one season where he played every day, Bourjos had 26 doubles, 11 triples, 12 homers and 22 stolen bases.

He would give the Sox more athleticism at the plate and in the field. And he is a local kid, to boot.

The Sox should explore this.



My concern about Hamilton is this: he has thrived playing in Arlington, Texas. Los Angeles is a much bigger stage and the contract is enormous. It is difficult to predict how he responds to this new situation.



We'll see. The L.A. Angels were supposed to run away and hide last year, too. They finished 3rd.

Yeah alot of times these big buyers never really pan out. Although it does seem hard to believe that they wont run away with AL West.

doublem23
12-13-2012, 08:03 PM
We'll see. The L.A. Angels were supposed to run away and hide last year, too. They finished 3rd.

Yeah, and still finished with a better record than the team that won our division

SephClone89
12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Yeah, and still finished with a better record than the team that won our division

Not to mention the fact that the Rangers have apparently been weakened this offseason, whereas last year it still looked like they were the best team in the AL even after the Angels' free agent splashes.

Soxman219
12-13-2012, 08:13 PM
And just to think, if Nelson Cruz moves his glove 12 more inches to the right, the Rangers would have a World Series in 2011. Now the Rangers' championship window is closed shut. Baseball is truly a game of inches.

CoopaLoop
12-13-2012, 09:18 PM
So who is moving to center for the Rangers? Andrus or Kinsler?

Bucky F. Dent
12-13-2012, 10:12 PM
White Sox Twist: I wonder if there'll be any discussions about Bourjos now. I'd love to make a run at him (for Floyd..?).

MLB TV was talking about the fact that he might be dealt for starting pitching.

Huisj
12-14-2012, 09:29 AM
MLB TV was talking about the fact that he might be dealt for starting pitching.

IS Bourjos really worth much starting pitching? He had a nice year in 2011, but in 2012 and 2010 he was crap.

russ99
12-14-2012, 09:40 AM
You had to figure that Hamilton was going elsewhere after how poorly the Rangers handled his "slip" last offseason.

pythons007
12-14-2012, 12:53 PM
Adam Dunn says hello

At age 33 its not uncommon for players to lose their skills pretty fast. Each of the last 5 years Pujols has dropped in ops, obp and slg. He's never going to be the same player he once was unless he pulls a Barry Bonds. He did end up having a good year but he's never gonna be a 175 ops+ type of hitter again. If he stays healthy he'll end up between 135 and 140 ops which is still great but nothing like what he used to put up.

Alot of people seem to think he's not 33 either but somewhere between 35 and 36 which will make it even more difficult for him to stay healthy. I just don't think this lineup is as scary as it looks.

My point is, a player just doesn't fall flat on his face. Adam Dunn had one bad year, then followed that up with what he normally does. Pujols switched leagues and had a brutal 2 months to start the season. I'm willing to bet he has another Pujols type season this year.

SephClone89
12-14-2012, 01:18 PM
My point is, a player just doesn't fall flat on his face. Adam Dunn had one bad year, then followed that up with what he normally does. Pujols switched leagues and had a brutal 2 months to start the season. I'm willing to bet he has another Pujols type season this year.

I'm not one to dwell on bashing Dunn, but this is very false.

Mr. Jinx
12-14-2012, 01:30 PM
You just never know. Last year when the Angels picked up Pujols and C.J. Wilson, I thought they would be unbeatable. When the Tigers signed Prince Fielder, I thought the Sox would finish 20 games out. You still have to play the games.

I feel like that should be the Sox' slogan to combat their decisions not to hand out monster contracts. "White Sox baseball - You still have to play the games"

Mr. Jinx
12-14-2012, 01:33 PM
I'm not one to dwell on bashing Dunn, but this is very false.

Yeah, although his HR numbers came back, his OPS was 70 points below his average, BA was 36 points under, and he had 31 more Ks than average. But on the plus side he had as many SBs last year as he did the previous 5.

SephClone89
12-14-2012, 01:43 PM
Yeah, although his HR numbers came back, his OPS was 70 points below his average, BA was 36 points under, and he had 31 more Ks than average. But on the plus side he had as many SBs last year as he did the previous 5.

All things considered, it was almost definitely his second-worst season in the majors, after 2011 of course.

palehozenychicty
12-14-2012, 01:59 PM
Pale:

They have consistently been a real contender and have made numerous playoff appearances. Can't speak for you or any other Sox fan but as for me, I'd take that in a heartbeat. To say nothing of the fact that Moreno refuses to accept the 'status quo' (i.e. the Angels were second class citizens in SoCal) and is doing something about it.

Lip

Sure. They're in the mix every year. But they seem to still not quite have that magic. It's not easy to make a WS and win it. They are missing something, though.

As for the Sox, they should have taken the next step as a perennial postseason contender, especially after winning the Series. But they didn't.

Why is a whole different topic.

mahagga73
12-14-2012, 02:04 PM
5 years 125 mil

Trout-Pujols-Hamilton one of the best 3-4-5 ever (or 2-3-4?)

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/8744414/josh-hamilton-agreed-deal-angels-sources-say
If Hamilton stays healthy, history says he won't.

mahagga73
12-14-2012, 02:08 PM
You had to figure that Hamilton was going elsewhere after how poorly the Rangers handled his "slip" last offseason.
Whatever, it will prove to be another stupid contract by the Angels, like the Pujols one will be too. They would have been better off resigning Greinke than another bat from an injury prone player like Hamilton, who is a major risk off the field as well. They still don't have a WS title type pitching staff. Pretty soon, after Pujols production drops significantly and Hamilton is out with a hangnail, they will have to spend 300 mill a year to field even a decent team. 2 years, 2 bad contracts.

JB98
12-14-2012, 02:16 PM
I'm not going to crown the Angels, not even in that division.

After Weaver and Wilson, who is going to pitch?

mahagga73
12-14-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm not going to crown the Angels, not even in that division.

After Weaver and Wilson, who is going to pitch?
Greinke , as overrated as I think he is, would have made them a better team than another big bat. I agree . I suppose they will be the favorites to win the division because Texas is losing a lot, but I'm not seeing the kind of pitching it takes to succeed in the playoffs. Maybe Oakland will stay ahead of Texas this year.

Thome25
12-14-2012, 03:33 PM
It's contracts like this and teams like the Angels (who spend exorbitant amounts of money on multiple players) that are making me completely lose interest in MLB baseball altogether.

No player is worth 25+ million dollars a year IMO.

Lip Man 1
12-14-2012, 03:53 PM
Thome:

A player is "worth" whatever the market will bear and whatever someone is willing to pay them as in every other employment position in life.

I'm not saying that a major league player is more valuable to society than say a police office or a teacher. I will say that there are only 750 or so jobs at the major league level.

The odds are very, very, very long of anyone getting to that position. When they do, they deserve to collect big.

Lip

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-14-2012, 04:16 PM
That would be really funny if Oakland could somehow win that division, but I'm just not seeing it. They have a lot of nice young guys, but that lineup on paper looks just blah to me.

Boondock Saint
12-14-2012, 04:40 PM
Thome:

A player is "worth" whatever the market will bear and whatever someone is willing to pay them as in every other employment position in life.

I'm not saying that a major league player is more valuable to society than say a police office or a teacher. I will say that there are only 750 or so jobs at the major league level.

The odds are very, very, very long of anyone getting to that position. When they do, they deserve to collect big.

Lip

This needs to be posted on a billboard somewhere so that it never needs to be repeated.

mahagga73
12-14-2012, 04:55 PM
Thome:

A player is "worth" whatever the market will bear and whatever someone is willing to pay them as in every other employment position in life.

I'm not saying that a major league player is more valuable to society than say a police office or a teacher. I will say that there are only 750 or so jobs at the major league level.

The odds are very, very, very long of anyone getting to that position. When they do, they deserve to collect big.

Lip
Yep, that's capitalism to a tee, supply and demand dictate compensation . A lot of people just can't wrap their heads around the concept . And if we all acknowledge that the free market is the best way to go we can't complain when a baseball player makes 1000 times more than the president or a school teacher. Amazingly, it seems sports figures are the favorite target of public resentment when movie actors and directors to a large degree dwarf the earnings of the pauper baseball stars. Why is that ? Because millions more people would rather see Brad Pitt in his newest blockbuster than to see Joe Blow writing a report on company waste in his cubicle. If people stop loving going to the movies or the ball game, which I obviously don't condone, they will start falling back down to earth moneywise.

Thome25
12-14-2012, 10:53 PM
Thome:

A player is "worth" whatever the market will bear and whatever someone is willing to pay them as in every other employment position in life.

I'm not saying that a major league player is more valuable to society than say a police office or a teacher. I will say that there are only 750 or so jobs at the major league level.

The odds are very, very, very long of anyone getting to that position. When they do, they deserve to collect big.

Lip

This needs to be posted on a billboard somewhere so that it never needs to be repeated.

Yep, that's capitalism to a tee, supply and demand dictate compensation . A lot of people just can't wrap their heads around the concept . And if we all acknowledge that the free market is the best way to go we can't complain when a baseball player makes 1000 times more than the president or a school teacher. Amazingly, it seems sports figures are the favorite target of public resentment when movie actors and directors to a large degree dwarf the earnings of the pauper baseball stars. Why is that ? Because millions more people would rather see Brad Pitt in his newest blockbuster than to see Joe Blow writing a report on company waste in his cubicle. If people stop loving going to the movies or the ball game, which I obviously don't condone, they will start falling back down to earth moneywise.

I understand supply and demand and what the over inflated free agent market in MLB dictates.

That doesn't change the fact that IMO players in MLB are vastly overpaid by teams that are considered the "haves" and the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" seems to widen each and every year when some stupid owner decides to overpay a player.

The Hamilton signing is the prime example of that IMO

Also, personally I'm still trying to decide whether I like watching and spending my money on sports such as MLB (and other major sports for that matter) where players are sickeningly overpaid.

DSpivack
12-15-2012, 12:48 AM
I understand supply and demand and what the over inflated free agent market in MLB dictates.

That doesn't change the fact that IMO players in MLB are vastly overpaid by teams that are considered the "haves" and the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" seems to widen each and every year when some stupid owner decides to overpay a player.

The Hamilton signing is the prime example of that IMO

Also, personally I'm still trying to decide whether I like watching and spending my money on sports such as MLB (and other major sports for that matter) where players are sickeningly overpaid.
I don't really see them as overpaid, as people have said, they're the ones actually playing the game, and the revenue brings in billions to the sport every year. The players deserve the majority of that revenue, IMHO.

Lip Man 1
12-15-2012, 01:04 AM
Thome:

Maybe the 'have nots' need to get some decent 'have' owners who actually want to compete instead of throwing up their hands, saying 'whoa is me...' and then laughing all the way to the bank with millions in revenue sharing money.

Just sayin'

Lip

Noneck
12-15-2012, 01:10 AM
Lip,

You answered the question. Why bother trying when you make money by not even trying. Its shooting fish in a barrel time for owners.

mark1529
12-15-2012, 10:51 AM
Adam Dunn says hello

damn........that was a good one:redneck

mahagga73
12-15-2012, 09:29 PM
I understand supply and demand and what the over inflated free agent market in MLB dictates.

That doesn't change the fact that IMO players in MLB are vastly overpaid by teams that are considered the "haves" and the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" seems to widen each and every year when some stupid owner decides to overpay a player.

The Hamilton signing is the prime example of that IMO

Also, personally I'm still trying to decide whether I like watching and spending my money on sports such as MLB (and other major sports for that matter) where players are sickeningly overpaid.
I follow you and agree . I think there should be, and I have advocated this in the past, a soft cap, kind of like the NHL has had recently and the players are fighting against for obvious reasons. You must spend to at least a certain amount and you cannot exceed a certain amount. The amount is determined yearly by league revenues . I suppose this is kind of a form of communism but sports leagues are different than the business world in the fact all the teams have a collective interest in the growth and strength of the league and all the individual teams. I believe the biggest problem in baseball is not the rich teams but the fact a lot of these so-called lower revenue small market teams are not putting enough resources back into the team like they should be. We certainly cannot complain that the beloved White Sox are one of those. They struggle in ticket sales, don't have the cash a lot of teams have, but they are always making moves and signing players to make the team better. Don't always work but you got to love the organization for that.