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blandman
12-05-2012, 12:25 PM
3 year deal

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/white-sox-to-sign-jeff-keppinger.html

Domeshot17
12-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Perfect fit for what we need!

blandman
12-05-2012, 12:28 PM
Perfect fit for what we need!

There was talk of 3 years and $13 million for this guy. Shades of Mark Teahen contract.

doublem23
12-05-2012, 12:29 PM
Good move.

aryzner
12-05-2012, 12:30 PM
I understand Keppinger is quite the contact hitter. Is this right?

blandman
12-05-2012, 12:31 PM
I wonder if he's the new utility guy or the new third basemen.

ChiSoxGal85
12-05-2012, 12:31 PM
I think I like this move. :thumbsup:

blandman
12-05-2012, 12:31 PM
I understand Keppinger is quite the contact hitter. Is this right?

Yes. Not a lot of power though.

Also, it should be stated that Keppinger will be 33 this season.

soxfan21
12-05-2012, 12:36 PM
I like it.

TaylorStSox
12-05-2012, 12:39 PM
Ouch.

amsteel
12-05-2012, 12:46 PM
3 yrs of Keppinger = 1 yr of Youkilis

Unless Keppinger regresses to Morel-level production this is a good deal

DeadMoney
12-05-2012, 12:46 PM
Well this is just about on par with my expectations. IMO, the amount of years are a probably one too many, but it's not like there were many options

aryzner
12-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Looking at his numbers, he looks like the same player as Marco Scutaro, just a little younger and (hopefully) cheaper. And look what Scutaro just got paid.

palehozenychicty
12-05-2012, 12:48 PM
It's a good move. Let's see if he can keep it up.

Marqhead
12-05-2012, 12:49 PM
3 Years, $12 Million.

HomeFish
12-05-2012, 12:51 PM
0% chance that he is worse than Brent Morel.

TaylorStSox
12-05-2012, 01:06 PM
I'm not a big fan of signing a 33 year old mediocre player to a 3 year deal. At least Teahen had upside.

samurai_sox
12-05-2012, 01:11 PM
Not a bad deal.

Look what Angel Pagan just got from the Giants.

soxinem1
12-05-2012, 01:12 PM
I think they had no choice.

One, Keppinger should be a solid #2 hitter. I think that will really help this team.

Two, it looks obvious that Youkilis will get either a year for $10-12 million, or two-years for $20+ million. No way is that a good signing for us.

Three, the chances of acquiring anyone either at or between Keppinger and Youkilis skill set without spending a lot or giving up a ton was remote.

Four, he will have maybe a third of the K's Morel, Hudson, and Youkilis totaled, meaning a more versatile batter in that spot.

And lastly, defensively he is better than Youkilis by far.

Not a bad deal.

Look what Angel Pagan just got from the Giants.

Yes, just a year after he was nearly non-tendered.

blandman
12-05-2012, 01:14 PM
Not a bad deal.

Look what Angel Pagan just got from the Giants.

I'm not a fan of that deal either :shrug:

Both of these guys were extremely late bloomers. While it doesn't always follow, most late bloomers tend to fall off a cliff really early.

I like Keppinger. I don't like the deal. Even if it was our best option.

Noneck
12-05-2012, 01:22 PM
Desperate times calls for desperate measures. Youk was not a solution and wouldnt be had, Morel will be playing a harp soon, Sanchez isnt ready and may never be ready, Viciedo would be a carnival show at 3rd, so 3yrs at 4m each is what had to be done.

russ99
12-05-2012, 01:26 PM
Awesome pickup. I've been calling for this guy to fill the 3B hole since before FA started, and I've been a fan of Keppinger since he's been with the Astros.

Perfect #2 bat for our lineup, especially considering the cost and experience issues with other options. Plus $4M for a good contact hitter isn't an exhorbitant number.

Sounds like we beat out both the Cubs and Yanks for his services. Well done Mr. Hahn. Now about that catching issue.

Thome25
12-05-2012, 01:30 PM
I'm not a big fan of signing a 33 year old mediocre player to a 3 year deal. At least Teahen had upside.

Comparing this signing to Teahen is beyond ludicrous. :rolleyes:

We just solved the 3B situation by signing a guy who hits for average and gets on base. Which is what this team needs.

Give me a break.

Crestani
12-05-2012, 01:31 PM
I think I like this move. :thumbsup:




That says it all..!!

Procol Harum
12-05-2012, 01:32 PM
Given our situation and the fact that a boffo, blockbuster option is not a reasonable possibility, I find Keppinger a very sound solution--me likee. Certainly beats the prospect of having Morel or a disintegrating Youk there all year. :clap:

PaleHoser
12-05-2012, 01:34 PM
The third year at age 35 scares me a bit.

On the upside, with the stick he looks like the anti-Dunn. Total of 173 K's in over 2700 PA's in his career (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/keppije01.shtml).

ChiSoxFann
12-05-2012, 01:34 PM
Sounds like we beat out both the Cubs and Yanks for his services. Well done Mr. Hahn. Now about that catching issue.


My guess is the 3rd year is what did it since I read a lot about 2 yr deals for Keppinger. I like the signing and 4 mil really isn't that bad compared to the alternatives.

palehosepub
12-05-2012, 01:46 PM
I like the deal, gives us help at 3B immediately with a guy who rarely strikes out and has decent OBP. I didnt want to pay Youk the money it likes like he will receive, it can be better spent on a starter or a catcher. In today's baseball world $4 million per annum is a below average salary. Gives us better bench depth too in the future if Sanchez comes up next year or if we obtain a 3B prospect for Floyd....

... and I agree that the comparison to Teahan is off base... Keppinger has been a more consistnt two way player and is a known quantity

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-05-2012, 01:49 PM
I like this move. If the Sox manage to find a good third baseman to fulfill the starting role next year, Keppinger could slide into a supersub role and give you solid output, offensively and defensively.

He's not THE piece, but he is certainly A piece. Good signing Mr. Hahn. Now get a catcher and a reliever or two, and we are good.

LITTLE NELL
12-05-2012, 01:49 PM
As most know I watch most of the Rays games and Keppinger is a solid contact hitter. Trouble in TB is that Madden plays musical infielders a lot especially with Longoria missing a large part of last season. One never got the feeling of how guys played at any one position because they were constantly moved around. I still think Keppinger can be our answer at 3b and fill the role of a number 2 hitter in the lineup.

DaveFeelsRight
12-05-2012, 01:52 PM
Did someone say Teahen had upside? Joke of the year.

TaylorStSox
12-05-2012, 01:53 PM
Comparing this signing to Teahen is beyond ludicrous. :rolleyes:

We just solved the 3B situation by signing a guy who hits for average and gets on base. Which is what this team needs.

Give me a break.

How is unfair to compare our last 3rd baseman deal to this one? This guy's a poor fielding, aging journeyman. I don't hate the deal, but I sure as he'll don't like it. But hey, he doesn't strike out. Teal implied.

KRS1
12-05-2012, 01:58 PM
I'm a bit puzzled by some of the skepticism. Nothing to not like about him for $4M per. He is a style of hitter we are sorely lacking, and though he isn't the sexy move to compete offensively that we always hope for, he makes us better immediately in a position of weakness.

Soxman219
12-05-2012, 01:58 PM
Guy hits for contact, still relatively young, and hit .325 for the Rays while Longoria was injured at 3B. This is a good pickup.

samurai_sox
12-05-2012, 01:58 PM
Yankees fans are freaking out, Sox beat them out for Kepp and Arizona just signed Eric Chavez,

Youk is still in play for them, but as of right now their opening day starter for 3rd base could possibly be.... Jayson Nix. :rolling:

russ99
12-05-2012, 02:00 PM
Yankees fans are freaking out, Sox beat them out for Kepp and Arizona just signed Eric Chavez,

Youk is still in play for them, but as of right now their opening day starter for 3rd base could possibly be.... Jayson Nix. :rolling:

Probably less due to money than a question of who'd sign there knowing they'd be benched when A-Rod comes back.

SCCWS
12-05-2012, 02:01 PM
I believe he is very slow. Very few stolen bses or doubles in his career. Sounds like a good contact hitter but he Dunn and Paulie may really clog the bases.
Also I thought he just got injured????

LoveYourSuit
12-05-2012, 02:05 PM
Dbacks getting Chaves on a 1 year deal.

I would have preferred that move.

russ99
12-05-2012, 02:07 PM
I believe he is very slow. Very few stolen bses or doubles in his career. Sounds like a good contact hitter but he Dunn and Paulie may really clog the bases.
Also I thought he just got injured????

Not Paulie slow, more like average. His lack of SBs and 2Bs are two separate issues. He hits like Pierre, same level of making contact but without the bunts and more liners than ground balls, but little gap power. SBs are due to a slow first step.

He did get hurt, broken leg, but will be fine for ST. As I recall he had a serious injury with Houston too that led him to miss a partial season, so that could be a concern moving forward. His bat is worth the risk, IMO.

aryzner
12-05-2012, 02:07 PM
Dbacks getting Chaves on a 1 year deal.

I would have preferred that move.

This tweet was posted on soxtalk, per DKnobler:

https://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/276415695493943296

White Sox talked to Chavez before signing Keppinger, but Chavez preferred Arizona.

Foulke You
12-05-2012, 02:11 PM
It should be noted that Keppinger plays SS and 2B as well as 3B. While he has likely been signed to be the everyday 3B for the Sox, this signing could also be a precursor to a trade.

TheVulture
12-05-2012, 02:12 PM
How is unfair to compare our last 3rd baseman deal to this one? This guy's a poor fielding, aging journeyman. I don't hate the deal, but I sure as he'll don't like it. But hey, he doesn't strike out. Teal implied.

How do you figure he's a poor fielder? From what I've read he's solid at all the IF positions and more than solid at third, though I have to admit I haven't seen much of his play.

thomas35forever
12-05-2012, 02:15 PM
Not sure if I like the length of the deal, but that's why I'm not the GM. If he's as good a contact hitter as Youk, I'll be happy.

TheVulture
12-05-2012, 02:19 PM
Not sure if I like the length of the deal, but that's why I'm not the GM. If he's as good a contact hitter as Youk, I'll be happy.
Well, he's a far superior contact hitter to the Youk of the last few years, so you should be ecstatic.

TaylorStSox
12-05-2012, 02:21 PM
How do you figure he's a poor fielder? From what I've read he's solid at all the IF positions and more than solid at third, though I have to admit I haven't seen much of his play.

Just going by what I read. He plays 3 positions, but isn't good at any. I do agree that he's the type of hitter the team can use. 3 years is just excessive. Apparently they approached Chavez, but he didn't want to play here. Which makes me dislike the deal less.

LoveYourSuit
12-05-2012, 02:22 PM
This tweet was posted on soxtalk, per DKnobler:

https://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/276415695493943296

White Sox talked to Chavez before signing Keppinger, but Chavez preferred Arizona.


Good to hear at least they tried.

Chavez would have provided more pop and from the left side which we will now need if AJ leaves.

But I'll take Keppinger over Youk/Morel.

amsteel
12-05-2012, 02:35 PM
Fun Fact:
Keppinger has fewer career Ks and the same # of HRs as Dunn had last season.

TheVulture
12-05-2012, 02:48 PM
Just going by what I read. He plays 3 positions, but isn't good at any. I do agree that he's the type of hitter the team can use. 3 years is just excessive. Apparently they approached Chavez, but he didn't want to play here. Which makes me dislike the deal less.

I know it doesn't mean much, but his career fielding percentages at 2b, 3b, SS and 1b are all above league average while his range factors are on the low side of average. Seems solid to me, but you can't really draw a definitive conclusion from those stats. His ratings at third base last year were all well above average, the first time he played more than a dozen games at the position. At worst, he seems like he would make a very strong utility player, and his contract to me is well within in the range for a strong utility player these days.

Tragg
12-05-2012, 03:04 PM
He's bad defensively, but he'll be our best bench bat and better than anything we had last year.

DonnieDarko
12-05-2012, 03:05 PM
Keppinger's signing looks like he'll be the starting 3B (no way do you pay that much money to a bench player).

I'm...okay with this. I mean, considering how bad the 3B market is.

24thStFan
12-05-2012, 03:18 PM
Underwhelming, but seems like Hahn whiffed on Chavez and we were painted into a (hot) corner.

Go Sox!

soxnut1018
12-05-2012, 03:32 PM
Not sure if I like the length of the deal, but that's why I'm not the GM. If he's as good a contact hitter as Youk, I'll be happy.

Youkilis' strike out %: 18.5
Keppinger's strike out %: 6.4

So yeah, you should be happy.

TheVulture
12-05-2012, 03:53 PM
(no way do you pay that much money to a bench player).


I don't know about that. Depends what kind of a bench player you are talking about. If he were a bench player, he would probably be in a super utility role where he might still start eighty or more games, especially with Dunn in the lineup. We would be better off with a slap hitter such as Keppinger at DH against lefties than Dunn who is completely worthless against them. The Sox could rest Konerko by DH'ing against lefties and have Keppinger at first.

Say somehow Morel rebounds to the point where he would be worthwhile or Lopez emerges to take over third, it would still be well worth it to pay Keppinger four million a year, as he could start forty or fifty games at DH(or first with Konerko at DH) and an equal amount in the infield. He would not be worth that kind of money only if the Sox had someone in the system who could fill the same role, which the Sox clearly do not.

It all comes down to need, and the Sox need a guy like Keppinger considering he can be inserted into the lineup based on matchups at three positions where the Sox could use his bat. The Sox have open third base, a second baseman who has his share of struggles and a DH who can't hit lefties. We just went through a season that clearly demonstrated the lack of a quality hitter off the bench to come in start during stretches as needed can hurt the team big time. If a guy can step in and produce for half the lineup, surely he is worth half of what a typical starting player would be paid.

Personally, I see him getting the bulk of playing time at third this year and then moving into a role such as I described as hopefully Lopez will be the long term answer at third.

palehosepub
12-05-2012, 04:00 PM
I like the fact that he would rather play in Chicago than for more money in NY:

According to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter (https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/276431391904907264)), the Yankees bid higher than the White Sox for Jeff Keppinger (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/keppije01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com), but the utility infielder chose Chicago.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#2Qxy6KbogXt3EWMy.99

PorkChopExpress
12-05-2012, 04:09 PM
I like the fact that he would rather play in Chicago than for more money in NY:

According to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter (https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/276431391904907264)), the Yankees bid higher than the White Sox for Jeff Keppinger (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/keppije01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com), but the utility infielder chose Chicago.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#2Qxy6KbogXt3EWMy.99

I think someone here may have mentioned this, or maybe it was another board, but I suspect the fact that when ARod comes back, he will basically be out of a job probably played a role in that, too. Jeter at SS, Cano at 2B and Texiera at 1B doesn't leave anywhere else for Keppinger to play once ARod is back, but the bench. With the Sox it looks like the starting 3B job is his to lose. Plus, the rumors are that AJ Pierzynski might be a Yankee, and no one wants to be in a clubhouse with him.

TDog
12-05-2012, 04:14 PM
I like Keppinger as a hitter. He makes contact, puts the ball in play. He doesn't strike out much by today's standards. I liked what I saw of him with the Giants in 2011. I think he would make a pretty good No. 2 hitter, especially behind a good and fast leadoff man. I hope my concerns about his defense prove unfounded.

PorkChopExpress
12-05-2012, 04:28 PM
Also, he has a couple of ties to our clubhouse already. He played 2 years with Dunn in Cincy, and he's a Georgia Bulldog, like Gordo.

kobo
12-05-2012, 05:17 PM
Underwhelming, but seems like Hahn whiffed on Chavez and we were painted into a (hot) corner.

Go Sox!
How do you whiff on someone when that person doesn't want to play here?

Lip Man 1
12-05-2012, 05:19 PM
Sox didn't have many options so this signing is OK by me.

Lip

JB98
12-05-2012, 05:24 PM
Keppinger's strengths are his versatility and the fact that he hits the **** out of left-handed pitching.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=keppije01&year=2012&t=b

He batted .376 with an OPS over .900 against LHP last season. He's a career .333 hitter against LHP.

BainesHOF
12-05-2012, 05:44 PM
It looks like we have a Major League third baseman. Now we need a Major League second baseman.

Foulke You
12-05-2012, 05:52 PM
Keppinger's strengths are his versatility and the fact that he hits the **** out of left-handed pitching.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=keppije01&year=2012&t=b

He batted .376 with an OPS over .900 against LHP last season. He's a career .333 hitter against LHP.
He also popped 9 HRs out of the park last year which was a career high for him. I hope that continues. If he hits for high avg, makes good contact, and supplies 8-10HRs, I'll be happy. My only reservation about this signing is that we won't be getting a ton of power out of the 3B spot which is traditionally a power type position. Perhaps his HR total will be helped by those warm July games at 35th and Shields when the ball is jumping.

LoveYourSuit
12-05-2012, 06:05 PM
He also popped 9 HRs out of the park last year which was a career high for him. I hope that continues. If he hits for high avg, makes good contact, and supplies 8-10HRs, I'll be happy. My only reservation about this signing is that we won't be getting a ton of power out of the 3B spot which is traditionally a power type position. Perhaps his HR total will be helped by those warm July games at 35th and Shields when the ball is jumping.

I'm not too worried about the HRs.

The Sox need people who can put the ball in play, badly.

TomBradley72
12-05-2012, 06:11 PM
Sounds like a "Herbert Perry" type of fill in at 3rd- the 3rd year doesn't really thrill me- but sounds like he can help as a utility guy if we find a real stud for 3rd by 2015.

What's the word on his defense?

Medford Bobby
12-05-2012, 06:14 PM
Sox didn't have many options so this signing is OK by me.

Lip

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xckdYv43XtY/TqRRHxT0P_I/AAAAAAAAH84/nqAQUuY34aU/s320/Keppinger+Topps+All-Black+F.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xckdYv43XtY/TqRRHxT0P_I/AAAAAAAAH84/nqAQUuY34aU/s1600/Keppinger+Topps+All-Black+F.jpg) I agree...Nice glove!!:D:

thomas35forever
12-05-2012, 06:15 PM
I'm not too worried about the HRs.

The Sox need people who can put the ball in play, badly.
We took a positive step in that direction last season. Still a lot of progress to be made though. And it would help if we were built for six months instead of five-and-a-half.

JB98
12-05-2012, 06:16 PM
Sounds like a "Herbert Perry" type of fill in at 3rd- the 3rd year doesn't really thrill me- but sounds like he can help as a utility guy if we find a real stud for 3rd by 2015.

What's the word on his defense?

Probably better than what the Sox were getting from gimpy Youk at 3B, but he won't wow you. Good hands, but nothing special range-wise.

palehozenychicty
12-05-2012, 06:35 PM
He also popped 9 HRs out of the park last year which was a career high for him. I hope that continues. If he hits for high avg, makes good contact, and supplies 8-10HRs, I'll be happy. My only reservation about this signing is that we won't be getting a ton of power out of the 3B spot which is traditionally a power type position. Perhaps his HR total will be helped by those warm July games at 35th and Shields when the ball is jumping.

Of course you want power in that role. But there was VERY little out there who would supply that wish.

RV is walking through the door, but not on the diamond.

johnnyg83
12-05-2012, 07:33 PM
He also popped 9 HRs out of the park last year which was a career high for him. I hope that continues. If he hits for high avg, makes good contact, and supplies 8-10HRs, I'll be happy. My only reservation about this signing is that we won't be getting a ton of power out of the 3B spot which is traditionally a power type position. Perhaps his HR total will be helped by those warm July games at 35th and Shields when the ball is jumping.

Makes one seriously consider DHing him for Dunn against LHP.

spawn
12-05-2012, 07:41 PM
I'm a bit puzzled by some of the skepticism. Nothing to not like about him for $4M per. He is a style of hitter we are sorely lacking, and though he isn't the sexy move to compete offensively that we always hope for, he makes us better immediately in a position of weakness.

:welcome:

shingo10
12-05-2012, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=Foulke You;3010864]He also popped 9 HRs out of the park last year which was a career high for him. I hope that continues. If he hits for high avg, makes good contact, and supplies 8-10HRs, I'll be happy. My only reservation about this signing is that we won't be getting a ton of power out of the 3B spot which is traditionally a power type position. Perhaps his HR total will be helped by those warm July games at 35th and Shields when the ball is jumping.[/QUOTE


I just hope no one seriously thinks that guys are going to hit 5-7 more home runs a year because they play at the Cell anymore. Not saying you do but after hearing it about Dunn, Rios, Teahen, pretty much every batter the Sox have traded for the last couple years I've grown weary of it. Doesn't seem like it makes all that much of a difference to be honest.

KMcMahon817
12-05-2012, 08:14 PM
I like the move. I like like it alot more if the SOX pick up another IF who can play pretty good D all over the diamond, hit LH and hit RHP very well. Play Keppinger at 3B against all LHP plus about half the games against RHP, and let the other IF take 2 games a weeks or so at 3B. Figgins, Rolen, Kelly Johnson, Inge and maybe even Wigginton would all be options on the FA market.

I am sure Hahn will make a few deals before all is said and done. Maybe he will pick up that IF via a trade.

Brian26
12-05-2012, 08:15 PM
Also, he has a couple of ties to our clubhouse already. He played 2 years with Dunn in Cincy, and he's a Georgia Bulldog, like Gordo.

Heyman noted on MLB just now that Keppinger has ties with Buddy Bell also, which is another reason he chose the Sox.

As KRS said, it's not a sexy move, but the Sox got what they needed. I like TDog's idea of slotting Keppinger in at #2 in the lineup.

tstrike2000
12-05-2012, 08:39 PM
Definitely a Kenny-like under the radar move. The only negative is three years may be a bit much, but he's also not real expensive. Don't know a lot about him, but if he can stay somewhere near his career numbers, this is a good move.

central44
12-05-2012, 09:11 PM
As KRS said, it's not a sexy move, but the Sox got what they needed. I like TDog's idea of slotting Keppinger in at #2 in the lineup.

Agreed. Scott Podsednik wasn't a sexy move either, but he filled a giant need for the team. The small moves can make a big difference over the course of a long season.

3 years at 4 million per year is not a bad deal for the Sox, especially for a guy whose history suggests he can flirt with a .300 average and get on base regularly while playing above average defense. I'm sure a lot of teams would love to have a guy like that.

SI1020
12-05-2012, 09:20 PM
Why the fuss about not signing Chavez? He's 2+ years older than Keppinger and last year was the first since 06 that he played in over 100 games. He's nowhere near the GG 3B man he was at Oakland. The Sox did about as well as they could in signing Keppinger.

ChicagoG19
12-05-2012, 09:34 PM
I am okay with this signing. Pretty decent bat and relatively cheap. We'll see how goes it.

LoveYourSuit
12-05-2012, 09:47 PM
Why the fuss about not signing Chavez? He's 2+ years older than Keppinger and last year was the first since 06 that he played in over 100 games. He's nowhere near the GG 3B man he was at Oakland. The Sox did about as well as they could in signing Keppinger.


Neither is a knock my Socks off move.

But I think Chavez would bring more pop and a much needed left handed stick with AJ leaving.

Regardless, both are upgrades over Morel.

palehozenychicty
12-05-2012, 10:02 PM
Neither is a knock my Socks off move.

But I think Chavez would bring more pop and a much needed left handed stick with AJ leaving.

Regardless, both are upgrades over Morel.

He can't stay on the field. His back can't handle it anymore. He was done by the playoffs last season.

Frater Perdurabo
12-05-2012, 10:04 PM
I approve this move. It would be nice to find a LH platoon partner with similar positional flexibility, ideally with some pop and an ability to play LF and RF; someone like a younger Rob Mackowiak (for lack of a better comparison), or a Mark Teahen-type with a smaller contract. Then, I'd like to bring back AJ and ease him into a platoon with Flowers. This would give Ventura a decent lineup with which he could play matchups and have pinch hitting options.

slavko
12-05-2012, 10:06 PM
Heyman noted on MLB just now that Keppinger has ties with Buddy Bell also, which is another reason he chose the Sox.

As KRS said, it's not a sexy move, but the Sox got what they needed. I like TDog's idea of slotting Keppinger in at #2 in the lineup.

He's a #2 hitter but he can't run. Like Youk! I'm still OK with this. If Morel comes back strong (never say never) you have a nice problem which may affect other infield positions.

Lip Man 1
12-05-2012, 10:08 PM
Joe Madden tonight said Keppinger's defense is better than people think for what that's worth to you.

Lip

geofitz
12-06-2012, 06:42 AM
Joe Maddon had enough confidence in Keppinger to use him at all the IF positions and hit him in several slots in the lineup. And IMO Maddon doesn't ask players to do things they're not capable of.

Overall he should fit well with the White Sox.

SI1020
12-06-2012, 07:28 AM
Joe Madden tonight said Keppinger's defense is better than people think for what that's worth to you.

Lip He OK, just doesn't have a lot of range.

blandman
12-06-2012, 10:14 AM
He OK, just doesn't have a lot of range.

Yeah I'd like him a lot better at 2B. If we're gonna just punt offense from one of the spots, why not move Gordon back to 3rd? He's adequate there defensively.

doublem23
12-06-2012, 10:17 AM
Yeah I'd like him a lot better at 2B. If we're gonna just punt offense from one of the spots, why not move Gordon back to 3rd? He's adequate there defensively.

Gordon is a better 2B than 3B. Beckham, as frustrating as he is is actually not a terrible offensive 2B plus his defense is top notch. Moving him to 3B would absolutely crush what little value he brings to this team.

blandman
12-06-2012, 10:49 AM
Gordon is a better 2B than 3B. Beckham, as frustrating as he is is actually not a terrible offensive 2B plus his defense is top notch. Moving him to 3B would absolutely crush what little value he brings to this team.

IDK...I mean, we're gonna get his offensive production and Keppinger's no matter the position anyway. Keppinger is better than average at 2B. Beckham might be better defensively there, but we might be better defensively overall with these pieces if he plays third.

34 Inch Stick
12-06-2012, 10:52 AM
I think this move signals the end of Beckham in 2014 with a hunt for another 3B that year.

Foulke You
12-06-2012, 11:25 AM
Of course you want power in that role. But there was VERY little out there who would supply that wish.

RV is walking through the door, but not on the diamond.
Yeah, this year's FA 3B class was very weak which is why we did ok with Keppinger considering what was out there. I wasn't advocating for Mark Reynolds or anything. You just don't want to go back to what happened in 2010 where we got out slugged in our own ballpark. We would have likely needed to part with Floyd (or more) to get a quality 3B who could do everything. As I said, if Keppinger gives us 7-10 HRs, I'll be satisfied with his power output considering how he handles the bat and hits for contact.


I just hope no one seriously thinks that guys are going to hit 5-7 more home runs a year because they play at the Cell anymore. Not saying you do but after hearing it about Dunn, Rios, Teahen, pretty much every batter the Sox have traded for the last couple years I've grown weary of it. Doesn't seem like it makes all that much of a difference to be honest.
I agree with you that our ballpark being a pure "launching pad" is a bit overblown. It's really only that way from mid June through late August. In April and May when it is chilly, the ball does not carry well at all. However, there is no question that The Cell gives up its share of cheapies in the warm months, especially in the corners. I'm not sure what part of the field Keppinger likes to hit to, but it isn't out of the question that he adds a *few* to his HR total during the hot days at The Cell that he otherwise wouldn't have gotten. You are correct that it would definitely be a mistake to assume he'll start cranking out 20HRs now just because he is in our ballpark.

SaltyPretzel
12-06-2012, 11:30 AM
Meanwhile, the Yanks are offering a 1-year 12M deal for Youk.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8720052/kevin-youkilis-offered-one-year-deal-new-york-yankees-according-sources

blandman
12-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Meanwhile, the Yanks are offering a 1-year 12M deal for Youk.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8720052/kevin-youkilis-offered-one-year-deal-new-york-yankees-according-sources

Well, I think Keppinger is better at this stage, so that makes this not look as bad.

aryzner
12-06-2012, 12:01 PM
Meanwhile, the Yanks are offering a 1-year 12M deal for Youk.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8720052/kevin-youkilis-offered-one-year-deal-new-york-yankees-according-sources

Wow. The Sox definitely don't need Youkilis for that price.

JB98
12-06-2012, 12:26 PM
IDK...I mean, we're gonna get his offensive production and Keppinger's no matter the position anyway. Keppinger is better than average at 2B. Beckham might be better defensively there, but we might be better defensively overall with these pieces if he plays third.

I completely disagree. I think Beckham is much better at 2B than 3B, and I think Keppinger is much better at 3B than 2B. I don't think there should even be a debate about how the infield should be aligned, given current personnel.

doublem23
12-06-2012, 12:32 PM
I completely disagree. I think Beckham is much better at 2B than 3B, and I think Keppinger is much better at 3B than 2B. I don't think there should even be a debate about how the infield should be aligned, given current personnel.

Agreed. If the Sox want to go get another 3B and bump Keppinger to second and Gordon to the bench that's fine, but right now I think the IF is pretty set.

sunofgold
12-06-2012, 12:46 PM
Remember Don kessinger. Like this move. He looks like a Kepper.

blandman
12-06-2012, 12:54 PM
I completely disagree. I think Beckham is much better at 2B than 3B, and I think Keppinger is much better at 3B than 2B. I don't think there should even be a debate about how the infield should be aligned, given current personnel.

Agreed. If the Sox want to go get another 3B and bump Keppinger to second and Gordon to the bench that's fine, but right now I think the IF is pretty set.

Are you simply basing that on Beckham? Because at least he CAN play an adequate 3rd. Keppinger is a utility guy that's hardly a utility guy. He should be at 1st or 2nd, but has played short and 3rd because he's sound fundamentally. But he's got way too little range and a really weak arm for that half of the infield on any sort of regular basis.

JB98
12-06-2012, 01:37 PM
Are you simply basing that on Beckham? Because at least he CAN play an adequate 3rd. Keppinger is a utility guy that's hardly a utility guy. He should be at 1st or 2nd, but has played short and 3rd because he's sound fundamentally. But he's got way too little range and a really weak arm for that half of the infield on any sort of regular basis.

No, I'm basing it on what I've seen from both players. I agree that Keppinger doesn't have a lot of range, and I think that shows up more at 2B than 3B. I wouldn't want him to play in the middle infield as any more than a fill-in.

I think Keppinger will be OK at 3B. No Gold Glove in his future or anything like that, but he's better than some of the bums who have played the position for the Sox in the past.

blandman
12-06-2012, 01:45 PM
No, I'm basing it on what I've seen from both players. I agree that Keppinger doesn't have a lot of range, and I think that shows up more at 2B than 3B. I wouldn't want him to play in the middle infield as any more than a fill-in.

I think Keppinger will be OK at 3B. No Gold Glove in his future or anything like that, but he's better than some of the bums who have played the position for the Sox in the past.


2B is more of a fundamental position, with lots of short range throws and receptions. Range is nice there but not the expectation (it's further from home plate than third and hot smashes generally come only from lefties). Range and a strong arm are the two most important parts of 3B. You have to cover a lot of ground really fast and then fire across the diamond 120 feet.

I don't think Keppinger will be okay at 3B. Or rather, I don't think our pitching staff will be okay with Keppinger at 3rd base for 100+ games.

It should be noted that 2B is the position Keppinger has played the most, and he's actually good at it.

Tragg
12-06-2012, 02:30 PM
I completely disagree. I think Beckham is much better at 2B than 3B, and I think Keppinger is much better at 3B than 2B. I don't think there should even be a debate about how the infield should be aligned, given current personnel.

I think Beckhams's good at 2nd and 3rd, Keppinger's not good at 2nd, but since I've never seen him play 3rd, I'll vote for him to play there.

cws05champ
12-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Good move....now I can go back to hating Youkulis.

TheVulture
12-06-2012, 04:29 PM
2B is more of a fundamental position, with lots of short range throws and receptions..

I completely disagree with this assessment of the second base position compared to third base. I'd rather have the plus arm at 2b for three reasons. First, IMO, the throw from the second basemen when he is on the grass behind 2b and moving directly away from 1st base is probably the toughest throw an infielder can make. Secondly, the second basemen turns the majority of double plays, I want a cannon making those throws. Lastly, the second basemen makes nearly all the relay throws from the OF to thirdbase and around half of those to home. Again, I want a cannon. Sure, the throw from deep at the third base line requires a good arm, but most of the throws a thirdbasemen makes he has momentum towards first and those throws from the third base line are less frequent than those throws from the second basemen.

KenBerryGrab
12-06-2012, 05:39 PM
And range is far less important at third than at second. At third, if a guy has hands in the mouth of the cannon, he'll be OK, but a second baseman needs to go into the hole in both directions.

tstrike2000
12-07-2012, 07:59 AM
Yeah I'd like him a lot better at 2B. If we're gonna just punt offense from one of the spots, why not move Gordon back to 3rd? He's adequate there defensively.

You could, but since Gordon has been playing gold glove caliber defense at 2B, plus being his most recent position, it would be too tough to move him away from there. Another huge reason to keep Gordon at 2B is he can still throw guys out with balls he fields that pull him toward CF. Having that gun when he's being pulled toward second is nice. We need to continue having a stud defense up the middle.

It sounds like Keppinger has more experience at 3B and is comfortable there, so all we're doing is swapping Youk.

johnnyg83
12-07-2012, 08:45 AM
3 yrs of Keppinger = 1 yr of Youkilis

Unless Keppinger regresses to Morel-level production this is a good deal

This I think is the key.

Let's use the other $ from Youk and AJ on a catcher, a UI and some relievers. Might be able to get all of that for what we would have paid Youk ... or close.

wilburaga
12-07-2012, 09:25 AM
This discussion of the relative merits of the skill infield positions makes me realize how much I miss Juan Uribe. Has any other Sox player ever had a significant tenure as a regular at shortstop, second base, and third base? I'm not advocating getting him back, but a large percentage of my favorite Sox memories feature his fat ass. And cannon arm.

Red Barchetta
12-07-2012, 09:47 AM
This discussion of the relative merits of the skill infield positions makes me realize how much I miss Juan Uribe. Has any other Sox player ever had a significant tenure as a regular at shortstop, second base, and third base? I'm not advocating getting him back, but a large percentage of my favorite Sox memories feature his fat ass. And cannon arm.

I agree. I'm glad we have Alexi at SS, however I miss Uribe's versatility. I was happy for him when he earned another WS ring with the Giants.

russ99
12-07-2012, 10:35 AM
Gordon is a better 2B than 3B. Beckham, as frustrating as he is is actually not a terrible offensive 2B plus his defense is top notch. Moving him to 3B would absolutely crush what little value he brings to this team.

Depends on what you consider not terrible. I'd say he's got bipolar results at the plate. Pretty good run production for when he gets a good swing on the ball, but tons of K's, awful at-bat after at-bat and he's averaged hitting .232 the last two seasons.

If he could find some consistency, he'd be a keeper. We'll have to see.

Without A.J., we still have potentially one 40+, one 30+ and three 20+ home run hitters in the lineup.

Power isn't the issue this offseason, balance is. Every position doesn't require a hitter with power as long as he can handle the bat.

doublem23
12-07-2012, 11:00 AM
Depends on what you consider not terrible. I'd say he's got bipolar results at the plate. Pretty good run production for when he gets a good swing on the ball, but tons of K's, awful at-bat after at-bat and he's averaged hitting .232 the last two seasons.

Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.

WhiteSoxNation
12-10-2012, 03:32 PM
Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.

Love this, thanks for the data to back it up......That's what I've been telling people. Decent glove, and average offensively (for the position) for what 650k??

Also Keppy is a huge addition, as of now he's starting 3B......Brings a ton of utility and opens a lot of trade windows...

I'd like to see some fuel to the Ellsbury talks. BOS wants a SP, Floyd for Ellsbury........Possibly beckham and flowers for ellsbury and salti????

cheezheadsoxfan
12-10-2012, 07:25 PM
did someone say teahen had upside? Joke of the year.
lol!

cheezheadsoxfan
12-10-2012, 07:45 PM
This discussion of the relative merits of the skill infield positions makes me realize how much I miss Juan Uribe. Has any other Sox player ever had a significant tenure as a regular at shortstop, second base, and third base? I'm not advocating getting him back, but a large percentage of my favorite Sox memories feature his fat ass. And cannon arm.
Well put. As much as that corkscrew swing drove me nuts, he was great to watch on defense.

cheezheadsoxfan
12-10-2012, 07:48 PM
Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.
Thank you. I think a lot of fans, disappointed that Beckham hasn't lived up the the hype, feel that he worthless. We could do a lot worse.

sunofgold
12-10-2012, 08:16 PM
Contract for the Keppenger.

2013 3.5m
2014 4 m
2015 4.5 m

Guess that is it. Re-signed peavy, wise and got Kep. Pulled angel Sanchez away.

russ99
12-10-2012, 09:25 PM
Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.

My point being above that regardless of the 16 homers and 62 RBI, Beckham posted an awful .234/.296

In the majors, of qualifying second basemen, there are 10 guys that hit over .260; 16 guys (one more than average) who hit over .250 and Beckham was second to last of all 2B qualifiers in OBP. If you want to really put the spotlight on run production, there were 10 qualifiers who hit the same number of or more homers and 15 qualifiers who had more RBIs.

Run production is a bonus from the 2B position, but he should at least be able to hit close to the average BA and OBP for his position.
At some point the above average glove won't make up for such mediocre numbers.

Maybe Keppinger on the team will get him to put up better at-bats.

thomas35forever
12-10-2012, 09:38 PM
Contract for the Keppenger.

2013 3.5m
2014 4 m
2015 4.5 m

Guess that is it. Re-signed peavy, wise and got Kep. Pulled angel Sanchez away.
That's it for now. Gotta shore up the 'pen though.

Golden Sox
12-11-2012, 08:26 AM
I get the impression that Hahn is not through making some deals. He keeps saying as of now Keppenger is our third baseman. Maybe I'm reading into this, but maybe he might be our new second baseman. Perhaps Beckham will be moved in a trade with someone else for a third baseman.

doublem23
12-11-2012, 08:45 AM
My point being above that regardless of the 16 homers and 62 RBI, Beckham posted an awful .234/.296

In the majors, of qualifying second basemen, there are 10 guys that hit over .260; 16 guys (one more than average) who hit over .250 and Beckham was second to last of all 2B qualifiers in OBP. If you want to really put the spotlight on run production, there were 10 qualifiers who hit the same number of or more homers and 15 qualifiers who had more RBIs.

Run production is a bonus from the 2B position, but he should at least be able to hit close to the average BA and OBP for his position.
At some point the above average glove won't make up for such mediocre numbers.

Maybe Keppinger on the team will get him to put up better at-bats.

But the thing is .234/.296 is actuall pretty close to the league average for a 2B. It's below average, yes, but it's not like this is a forceful offensive position. And whatever bit he leaves in terms of OBP and BA he more than makes up for with his run production, which is the name of the game, after all.

In a perfect world, maybe the Sox would look to upgrade their offense from 2B but that's not the most pressing need for this team. Considering the Tigers won the division and the league pennant despite getting absolutely miserable production from their 2B all year long, I'd say this is one of those items you can place on the Sox's dream list.

Oh, and Gordon's BAbip last year was .254, over 30 points lower than his career average entering the 2012 season, so it's not unrealistic to think he could bounce back to at least standard league averages in terms of BA and OBP next season. There's probably upgrades out there but the Sox can surely win with Gordon at 2B, too. I'm not too worried about it.

Foulke You
12-11-2012, 01:02 PM
I get the impression that Hahn is not through making some deals. He keeps saying as of now Keppenger is our third baseman. Maybe I'm reading into this, but maybe he might be our new second baseman. Perhaps Beckham will be moved in a trade with someone else for a third baseman.
If you scroll to the bottom of this article linked below, check out the full quote Hahn gives about the Keppinger signing. It definitely hints at the possibility of a trade. He doesn't mention 2B or Beckham specifically but he talks about the flexibility Keppinger gives him to make other moves as the offseason progresses.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121210&content_id=40598448&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

DonnieDarko
12-11-2012, 03:44 PM
Oh, and Gordon's BAbip last year was .254, over 30 points lower than his career average entering the 2012 season, so it's not unrealistic to think he could bounce back to at least standard league averages in terms of BA and OBP next season.

One of the major reasons his BABIP was so low was because he popped up the ball so damned much. So unless he can stop doing that, I don't see it improving.

sunofgold
12-11-2012, 05:51 PM
That's it for now. Gotta shore up the 'pen though.
Reed
Nate Jones
veal
Thornton
Crain
Omogrosso

Maybe one more arm.