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guillen4life13
07-29-2002, 11:02 AM
just on am 1000. crede is being called up and will be in the starting lineup on tuesday night.


WOOHOO!!!

who's gonna be called up to take alomar's place? paul or olivo?

Tragg
07-29-2002, 11:03 AM
Great news.

And what the hell, let Jose play some OF. Maybe he could become a super utility man like jerry royster. Let him pitch some too? (:-

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-29-2002, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
just on am 1000. crede is being called up and will be in the starting lineup on tuesday night.


WOOHOO!!!

who's gonna be called up to take alomar's place? paul or olivo?

It's about friggin time!!! I was wondering if that guy would EVER get out of the minors.

MarkEdward
07-29-2002, 11:41 AM
Finally. Maybe it's just me, but with Harris and now Crede being called up, I'm starting to excited about the rest of the season.

doctor30th
07-29-2002, 11:45 AM
Jose, I think he's going to Seattle.

Dadawg_77
07-29-2002, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
just on am 1000. crede is being called up and will be in the starting lineup on tuesday night.


WOOHOO!!!

who's gonna be called up to take alomar's place? paul or olivo?


Paul will be. I don't think Olivo has any major league time, so need to waste it by calling him up

Keystone Combo
07-29-2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Finally. Maybe it's just me, but with Harris and now Crede being called up, I'm starting to excited about the rest of the season.

Definitely, Harris, Crede, ROWAND, and Paul......... nice to see a change and give some guys a chance....... one thing you will see is enthusiasm and hustle...... something these other guys were starting to lack. Daver, Randar, and all the others........ you guys must be feeling ill seeing these changes but I think overall most White Sox fans feel the opportunities to these players are about time............ I want to see D'Jimenez too...... don't worry about his errors, minor league infields are not quite as good as major league infields......besides you guys were happy with 35 errors with Valentin a few years back.......lol Your turn, here we go again, but I still get to see MY FRIENDS play. Time will tell.

JoseCanseco6969
07-29-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
just on am 1000. crede is being called up and will be in the starting lineup on tuesday night.


WOOHOO!!!

who's gonna be called up to take alomar's place? paul or olivo?


hell yes, i've been waiting for this to happen for a long time, i hope crede an show us what he's capable of and prove to KW that he shouldve been playing all year

rmusacch
07-29-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by doctor30th
Jose, I think he's going to Seattle.

I have not even heard a rumor about this.

chisoxfanatic
07-29-2002, 02:11 PM
All I have to say is FFFFFFFFFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAALLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY!!!!

It took em long enough to bring up Crede! I thought he should've been brought up over a month ago. That man has no business in the minors when he's been tearing em up like he has. He has the HUNGER, something that much of our team has lacked nearly all season. The rest of this season should be a lot more exciting.

And the good news is that we do still have 12 games left with the Twins! We still have semi-control of our own destiny. Can we pull off a similar feat that the 1969 Mets did? It's possible...ANYTHING is possible!

Let's not lose hope.

Heather the Redbird

MarkEdward
07-29-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo


Definitely, Harris, Crede, ROWAND, and Paul......... nice to see a change and give some guys a chance....... one thing you will see is enthusiasm and hustle...... something these other guys were starting to lack. Daver, Randar, and all the others........ you guys must be feeling ill seeing these changes but I think overall most White Sox fans feel the opportunities to these players are about time............ I want to see D'Jimenez too...... don't worry about his errors, minor league infields are not quite as good as major league infields......besides you guys were happy with 35 errors with Valentin a few years back.......lol Your turn, here we go again, but I still get to see MY FRIENDS play. Time will tell.


Let's not get carried away here. Jimenez still needs some work in AAA. I understand the reasoning behind keeping him down. Josh Paul shouldn't be up here (or in the Sox organization). Harris and Crede are up because they deserve it, and are ready for the MLB.

Fianlly, I do think Daver and Randar want to see the young players up. They just understand it's not time for some of them (Jimenez).

Randar68
07-29-2002, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
Daver, Randar, and all the others........ you guys must be feeling ill seeing these changes but I think overall most White Sox fans feel the opportunities to these players are about time............ I want to see D'Jimenez too...... don't worry about his errors, minor league infields are not quite as good as major league infields......besides you guys were happy with 35 errors with Valentin a few years back

*****! Are you this irrational and knee-jerk in everyday life? I have been a proponent and I am excited to see the yound guys play. Namely, Crede, Harris, LTP, Rauch. I asked for Durham, Clayton, and Sandy to be dealt 2 months ago and for them to be replaced by Harris, Crede, etc. This is not some new idea. I really enjoy watching young TALENT on the field and like to see heart and desire in young players.

However, I am not akin to letting any no-talent stiff on the field because he ran into a wall once. The lack of critical thinking on some people' parts is astounding. Not because we disagree on some sort of debated level, but because there is absolutely no explanation of why Rowand should be an everyday player. Or, why Jimenez who can't hit or field on the MLB OR AAA level at this point should be playing everyday. Jimenez has 21 E's in only 85 career MLB games at SS! What is the excuse for that? Are Californian infields not as well taken care of as Midwest Infields?

RATIONALE! Try it some time.

Mathew
07-29-2002, 03:34 PM
Randar I was pulling my hair out last night because of how irrational some people are being, it is dissapointing that our team has driven many fans to not think. Carry on Randar just think calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean. I was just thinking, I would play for the major league minimum, crash into walls on every play and only walk 2 1/2% of the time, while hustling my bag off. I want the F.O.M. to unite around me.

basilesox
07-29-2002, 03:51 PM
I dont understand why everybody is so against Rowand. He may not be hall of fame caliber, but the guy did put decent numbers up last year. .293 Avg .385 OBP

Now remember this was last year, when he played regularly....got to see pitchers more than once a game (not just one AB at the end of a game) His .204 average reflects what many bench players hit when only playing sparingly. Hey he even has a little bit of a hot streak. 2 HR in the last week....

He seems to play pretty well in the OF as well. I am one of those guys that doesnt think Josh Paul can hack it, but I am not completely against giving Rowand a shot......at least until the almighty Borchard is ready (Yeah, we'll see)

Randar68
07-29-2002, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
I dont understand why everybody is so against Rowand. He may not be hall of fame caliber, but the guy did put decent numbers up last year. .293 Avg .385 OBP


Please look up Rowand's career OBP numbers against AA and AAA pitching and tell me this isn't a joke. We are not against Rowand, but making him out to be something that he is not, whcih is anything better than a 4th outfielder, is getting rediculous. Proving time and again why he isn't is very tiring and this argument has been beaten beyond belief. He is the backup quarterback for a non-playoff team. Fan favorite, must be better than what we got, and deserves all the PT in the world. Then, when he's given the PT, he turns out to be the dope the realistic folks always knew he was.

I think the Short Bus that got lost around here about 2 months ago was supposed to drop off around Addison and Clark. Unfortunately, the bus load of Iowans found it's way a bit too far south.

Dadawg_77
07-29-2002, 04:08 PM
Rowand isn't our best long term answer for CF, but right now he is the Sox best option. In the off season, I would like to see the Sox go out and pick up somebody to be our long term solution.

But is there anyone better at this point to play CF everyday for the rest of the year?

Daver
07-29-2002, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Rowand isn't our best long term answer for CF, but right now he is the Sox best option. In the off season, I would like to see the Sox go out and pick up somebody to be our long term solution.

But is there anyone better at this point to play CF everyday for the rest of the year?

Yeah Joe Borchard,unfortunately the impending labor situation precludes this.

basilesox
07-29-2002, 04:13 PM
So your saying he is the Shane Mathews of the Chicago Whitesox (OK maybe not that bad)

You may be right, but unfortunately we dont have any other CF options.......So we will have to see how he does. Regardless of what he did in AA or AAA...if from this point on he puts up numbers similar to last year, I will be content in leaving him there for next year. We have plenty of good hitters to drive him in (production guys) if he can just get on base like he did last year. He would be fine for an 8 or 9 spot guy.

.........On a side note, how do I include your post in my post

I tried this.....dont know if it will work

Please look up Rowand's career OBP numbers against AA and AAA pitching and tell me this isn't a joke

basilesox
07-29-2002, 04:14 PM
Ok it worked, but it didnt say originally posted by Randar

Randar68
07-29-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
Ok it worked, but it didnt say originally posted by Randar

Use the "quote" button on the bottom left of the post you wish to quote...

Daver
07-29-2002, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
Ok it worked, but it didnt say originally posted by Randar

Instead of hitting the post reply button hit the Quote button on the bottom of a post,it will automatically quote it for you.

basilesox
07-29-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by daver


Instead of hitting the post reply button hit the Quote button on the bottom of a post,it will automatically quote it for you.


Thanks

guillen4life13
07-29-2002, 04:27 PM
all i have to say is that joe crede better be here to stay.

btw what's his jersey number on the big league club? i think it's 24 but i'm not sure.

RedPinStripes
07-29-2002, 08:52 PM
:crede
About damn time! Here i come Chicago!!!!!!!!



YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: This makes my day!

Chisoxfn
07-29-2002, 09:03 PM
I don't see the harm in giving Aaron a shot to prove his worth. If he plays good, let him be our everyday centerfielder, if not then we could always go with Borchard, try to pick up someone like Beltran or Nixon or go and try to get Erstad who I think will end up getting overpaid by the Angels.

I stick to it, Joe still needs more time in the minors and to be honest I wouldn't mind leaving him in AAA another couple months next year. I also think he should be our rf, with Maggs in left and either Caballo or Frank as our DH. One has got to go if you ask me. Whether its now, in the offseason, or early next year.

guillen4life13
07-29-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
I don't see the harm in giving Aaron a shot to prove his worth. If he plays good, let him be our everyday centerfielder, if not then we could always go with Borchard, try to pick up someone like Beltran or Nixon or go and try to get Erstad who I think will end up getting overpaid by the Angels.

I stick to it, Joe still needs more time in the minors and to be honest I wouldn't mind leaving him in AAA another couple months next year. I also think he should be our rf, with Maggs in left and either Caballo or Frank as our DH. One has got to go if you ask me. Whether its now, in the offseason, or early next year.

beltran is probably not going to sign with us, considering he is a GG CF and could lead the league in SB's next year (he's leading the league right now).

one thing though: what you said leads me to believe that you think we should have aaron rowand instead of hurt or caballo? dude either you need to explain more or you need to think a lil bit, cuz i have trouble believing that anyone would rather have aaron over frank or c lee.

Chisoxfn
07-29-2002, 09:30 PM
No, I wouldn't rather have Aaron over Frank or Lee. The thing is I don't think that Borchard should play center, I think he should play right, moving Maggs to left. That means that Lee goes to DH or moves out, or Thomas goes elsewhere.

Rowand can play center, or we could get someone else to play center. I believe in putting a good defensive club out there because I feel defense helps win close games and thats where we have our flaws.

I happen to like Crash a lot and want to give him every opportunity to win the job. Also, a side note, if Harris plays good and Rowand flops as a starter, Harris could move to center while Hummel comes up and plays 2nd.

Basically my point is, no matter who we have play center next year, I strongly feel that Lee or Thomas needs to go. We can only have one DH and to be honest I wouldn't mind it being Lee cause it would mean we'd have a DH that could actually play in the field on ocassions so we could use the Dh to give other guys a rest or play the matchups better. Of course this is just me and I'm sure its not what the majority thinks. Usually I don't think like the majority thinks as I've backed Royce over Jose and have openly said I don't really want either of them here and have said it for the past year to year and a half.

We'll just have to see what happens. I will say I like our chances and I don't think we are getting worse moving these vets. The only guy to me that is a big loss is Durham. The rest can easily be replaced if you ask me. I think Crede at worse is just as good as Jose while Rowand is just as good as Lofton or near it and if we can get Jimenez to play short its better then Jose or Royce at short(mainly royce cause I'm comparing Jose to Crede the 3rd baseman). Plus we still keep our big bats in the lineup and with them we will always be competitive. We also keep our good young arms and gain a few more as well. I think that we picked up one future starter from the Giants and have tons of bullpen depth in the minors which kind of hints that we are gonna do our best to move Howry and Foulke or at least one of them. If not this year, then definately next year cause I don't see us bringing Keith back.

Randar68
07-29-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
while Rowand is just as good as Lofton or near it and if we can get Jimenez to play short its better then Jose or Royce at short(mainly royce cause I'm comparing Jose to Crede the 3rd baseman).

*****! Are you serious?

1) Do you think Rowand bring defense, speed, or OBP like Lofton Does?
2) Have you ever seen Jimenez play 1 game?

If you are going to have a strong opinion on something, at least educate yourself on the facts....

chisoxfanatic
07-29-2002, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
:crede
About damn time! Here i come Chicago!!!!!!!!



YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: This makes my day!

I guess that Homie the Clown is coming up from the minors!!!

Homey the Clown, don't mess around!!! :D:

Heather the Redbird

Chisoxfn
07-29-2002, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


*****! Are you serious?

1) Do you think Rowand bring defense, speed, or OBP like Lofton Does?



As far as Rowand I Think he's quick, not Lofton quick but I do think he has good speed. To me he is similar to Trot Nixon with less ability and major league experience, as well as a right-handed bat. I do know that I liked what I saw from him last year and I say why not give him a shot. We all know Kenny won't be back next year so why keep him. Rowand won't bring the same obp but I think he can bring similar defense. It looked to me that Kenny just wasn't the same this season in center and I can guarantee you that Aaron has a much better arm then Kenny.

Originally posted by Randar68

2) Have you ever seen Jimenez play 1 game?

If you are going to have a strong opinion on something, at least educate yourself on the facts....


Yes I have seen him play. I live in Socal and saw Padres game this year and last year as well as heard plenty of people talk about him in the Pads organization. I base most everything on a player from what I've seen and I liked what I saw from D'Angelo and I know one thing, and thats that I didn't like Jose or Royce. I think they both are lousy in other ways and I don't see how it hurts giving this guy a shot. If he fails..so what, its not like Jose or Royce is the answer and if you think they are then I disagree but respect that opinion. This is whats great about baseball, you can have many opinions and discuss them.

bc2k
07-30-2002, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
No, I wouldn't rather have Aaron over Frank or Lee. The thing is I don't think that Borchard should play center, I think he should play right, moving Maggs to left. That means that Lee goes to DH or moves out, or Thomas goes elsewhere.

Rowand can play center, or we could get someone else to play center. I believe in putting a good defensive club out there because I feel defense helps win close games and thats where we have our flaws.

I happen to like Crash a lot and want to give him every opportunity to win the job. Also, a side note, if Harris plays good and Rowand flops as a starter, Harris could move to center while Hummel comes up and plays 2nd.

Basically my point is, no matter who we have play center next year, I strongly feel that Lee or Thomas needs to go. We can only have one DH and to be honest I wouldn't mind it being Lee cause it would mean we'd have a DH that could actually play in the field on ocassions so we could use the Dh to give other guys a rest or play the matchups better. Of course this is just me and I'm sure its not what the majority thinks. Usually I don't think like the majority thinks as I've backed Royce over Jose and have openly said I don't really want either of them here and have said it for the past year to year and a half.


I agree with your post chisoxfn. I would like to see the Sox use your outfield.

Great analysis on the close games point and how Lee at DH could give regulars days off at DH while still keeping their bats in the lineup.

I've been hoping for Lee over Thomas at DH for a while because I'm not a fan of Thomas. But the analysis of how Lee can play the field giving starters breathers is just another reason why I would prefer Lee over Thomas.

The only idea I disagree with is the Royce over Jose opinion.

LongDistanceFan
07-30-2002, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


I agree with your post chisoxfn. I would like to see the Sox use your outfield.

Great analysis on the close games point and how Lee at DH could give regulars days off at DH while still keeping their bats in the lineup.

I've been hoping for Lee over Thomas at DH for a while because I'm not a fan of Thomas. But the analysis of how Lee can play the field giving starters breathers is just another reason why I would prefer Lee over Thomas.

The only idea I disagree with is the Royce over Jose opinion.

i would like to see clee traded maybe not this yr, maybe in the summer. we can use him to get us a prospect cat or something.

delben91
07-30-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by Randar68

1) Do you think Rowand bring defense, speed, or OBP like Lofton Does?


All right, now Randar, I usually have your back most of the time, we share a lot of opinions. Here though, I think you may be remembering the briefly revived Lofton of April, and not what we've seen recently. The aging and slowly breaking down Lofton that will probably be present more often than not for the rest of his career. If this were the Lofton of 4 years ago, Rowand couldn't hold a candle to him. Now though, with the nagging injuries, Lofton's speed hadn't disappeared, but had ceased to be useful, and it in turn hurt his defense. Rowand, purely by virtue of being younger probably has more "useable" speed and also, more consistent defense. Offensively, I think he can come close to Lofton's .259 AVG, walks, obviously aren't Aaron's strong suit, and thus OBP won't be either. Long term, he's nothing more than a 4th outfielder. Right now though, he won't be much worse than Lofton, at least for the remainder of the year.

Randar68
07-30-2002, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by delben91


All right, now Randar, I usually have your back most of the time, we share a lot of opinions. Here though, I think you may be remembering the briefly revived Lofton of April, and not what we've seen recently. The aging and slowly breaking down Lofton that will probably be present more often than not for the rest of his career. If this were the Lofton of 4 years ago, Rowand couldn't hold a candle to him. Now though, with the nagging injuries, Lofton's speed hadn't disappeared, but had ceased to be useful, and it in turn hurt his defense. Rowand, purely by virtue of being younger probably has more "useable" speed and also, more consistent defense. Offensively, I think he can come close to Lofton's .259 AVG, walks, obviously aren't Aaron's strong suit, and thus OBP won't be either. Long term, he's nothing more than a 4th outfielder. Right now though, he won't be much worse than Lofton, at least for the remainder of the year.


Well, Lofton had a terrible June. But even at that, look at his OBP, SB, and defense he still provided. This says nothing about his attitude, which I thought was poor.

Despit a terrible June, Lofton still had a .348 OBP. He made a lot of important catches in the outfield (admittedly because he often initially misread the ball). If you are suggesting that Aaron will put up a .348 OBP(.420 in April, .345 in May, .268 in June, and .349 in July) , I want some of whatever you are smoking! hehe... Rowands YTD numbers are .224 OBP. with 0 SB's. Lofton distracted the pitchers on a regular basis and it resulted in better counts and pitches to hit for the guys behind him.

On top of that, Lofton has traditionally been a second half player. Would Lofton have kept up his first 2 month pace? maybe not. However, his OBP was better in his terrible month of June than Rowand's whole season thus far. Last year was a fluke for him. Pitchers have seen him now, and he is back to his minor league pace for OBP in relation to his AVG. he has 3 walks in 113 AB's for cryin out loud!

delben91
07-30-2002, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by delben91


Offensively, I think he can come close to Lofton's .259 AVG, walks, obviously aren't Aaron's strong suit, and thus OBP won't be either. Long term, he's nothing more than a 4th outfielder.


Originally posted by Randar68



If you are suggesting that Aaron will put up a .348 OBP(.420 in April, .345 in May, .268 in June, and .349 in July) , I want some of whatever you are smoking! hehe... Rowands YTD numbers are .224 OBP. with 0 SB's.....

Pitchers have seen him now, and he is back to his minor league pace for OBP in relation to his AVG. he has 3 walks in 113 AB's for cryin out loud!

Actually, I agreed with you on the OBP ideas. My only point was that with where the team is going for the moment, Rowand is probably just as useful to the Sox as Lofton would be. Again, not a long term answer, but for the moment, he'll do.

Randar68
07-30-2002, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by delben91
Actually, I agreed with you on the OBP ideas. My only point was that with where the team is going for the moment, Rowand is probably just as useful to the Sox as Lofton would be. Again, not a long term answer, but for the moment, he'll do.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. Besides, at this point, that fact is not really worth arguing, because we have no one else ready or available for CF.

rmusacch
07-30-2002, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


i would like to see clee traded maybe not this yr, maybe in the summer. we can use him to get us a prospect cat or something.

I don't get why people want to see Carlos traded. I think he is going to develop into a pretty good player. He has shown some signs of it this year.

Iguana775
07-30-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


I don't get why people want to see Carlos traded. I think he is going to develop into a pretty good player. He has shown some signs of it this year.

i think it was due to the fact that he regressed since the allstar break last year.

hold2dibber
07-30-2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


I don't get why people want to see Carlos traded. I think he is going to develop into a pretty good player. He has shown some signs of it this year.

I think it is because he has trade value but is not considered a core player like PK, Maggs or Buehrle. Plus, many believe that Borchard will prove an able replacement. I for one, think Carlos will improve and provide numbers in the .280 AVG, .350 OBP, 30 HR, 100 RBI ranges for the next few years. Nonetheless, I would be willing to trade him if he could bring a quality starting pitcher (NOT another mediocre veteran "innings eater" type of guy).

LongDistanceFan
07-30-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I think it is because he has trade value but is not considered a core player like PK, Maggs or Buehrle. Plus, many believe that Borchard will prove an able replacement. I for one, think Carlos will improve and provide numbers in the .280 AVG, .350 OBP, 30 HR, 100 RBI ranges for the next few years. Nonetheless, I would be willing to trade him if he could bring a quality starting pitcher (NOT another mediocre veteran "innings eater" type of guy).

thank you, my sentiments exactly in ref to value, to address the needs of the team future.