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russ99
10-04-2012, 08:27 PM
White Sox 2013 Payroll Info: (source: Cot's)

Guaranteed players:
------------------
Danks, John - SP - $15,750,000 (with $1.5 annual bonus) - 4 yrs left (partial NTC)
Dunn, Adam - DH/1B - $15,000,000 - 2yrs left
Rios, Alex - RF/CF - $12,500,000 - 2yrs + TmOpt left (partial NTC)
Konerko, Paul - 1B.DH - $13,500,000 - 2014 FA (10/5 NTC rights)
Ramirez, Alexei - SS - $7,000,000 - 3yrs + TmOpt left
Thornton, Matt - RP - $5,500.00 - 1yr + TmOpt left
Crain, Jesse - RP - $4,500,000 - 2014 FA
Sale, Chris - SP - $775,000 (est. raise from 500K), first arb year 2014
===========================
Total 2013 obligations: $74,525,000


Near-minimum players, multiple yrs before arb
---------------------------------------------
Reed, Addison - $675,000 (est. raise from 480K),
Jones, Nate - RP - $625,000 (est. raise from 480K),
Santiago, Hector - $600,000 (est. raise from 480K),
Morel, Brent - 3B - $535,000 (est. raise from 490K),
Flowers, Tyler - C - $535,000 (est. raise from 483K),
Danks, Jordan - OF- minimum - $490,000 in 2013
Quintana, Jose - P - minimum - $490,000
Veal, Donald - P - minimum - $490,000
=============================
Running total: $78,965,000
--------------------

Arbitration eligible:
--------------------
Viciedo, Dayan - LF - Arb1 - $6,000,000** (est.) 2012 salary:$3,250,00)
DeAza, Alejandro - CF - Arb1 - $2,500,000 (est.) 2012: $495,000)
Beckham, Gordon - 2B - Arb1 - $2,250,000 (est.) 2012: $520,000)
Humber, Phil - P - Arb1 - $1,750,000 (est.) 2012: $530,000)
Olmedo, Rey - IF - Arb1 - $570,000 (est.) 2012: minimum)
====================
21 players - Running Total: $92,035,000
--------------------
** Estimate for Viciedo is raised due to Boras representation, previous salary, 2012 power numbers, and potential of going to hearing.

By comparison, when similar hitter Carlos Quentin hit arb in 2011 with a similar $3.2M salary, he signed for $5.05M with more injury concerns and non-Boras rep.


Options:
---------------
Peavy, Jake - SP - $22,000,000 team option - $4,000,000 buyout
Youkilis, Kevin - 3B - $13,000,000 team option - $1,000,000 buyout
Myers, Brett - RP - $10,000,000 team option - $3,000,000 buyout
Floyd, Gavin - Sp - $9,500,000 team option - zero buyout. See below.
====================
Running Total with Peavy, Youkilis and Myers buyouts: $100,035,000
--------------------

Free Agents:
------------
Pierzynski, A.J. - C - '12: $6,000,000 (est '13 salary: $8,000,000)
Hudson, Orlando - IF - '12: $5,500,000 (est '13 salary: $2,250,000)
Liriano, Francisco - SP - '12: $5,500,000 (est '13 salary: $9,250,000)
-------------


OFFSEASON SCENARIOS:
Scenario 1:
-----------
No FA's come back, Floyd's option is refused and all buyouts exercised.
Add 4 players at minimum to fill roster: $1,960,000
TOTAL ESTIMATED PAYROLL: $101,995,000

Scenario 2:
-----------
No FA's come back, Floyd's option year picked up and all buyouts exercised.
Add 3 players at minimum to fill roster: $1,470,000
TOTAL ESTIMATED PAYROLL: $111,005,000

Scenario 3:
-----------
No FA's come back, Floyd's option refused and all buyouts exercised, and Dunn is traded, which would under my estimation would require a large contract coming back. Max Savings for 2013 - $5M.
Add 4 players at minimum to fill roster: $1,960,000
TOTAL ESTIMATED PAYROLL: $96,995,000

Scenario 4:
-----------
A.J re-signs at a team friendly $7,500,000; Floyd's option year picked up and all buyouts exercised.
Add 2 players at minimum to fill roster: $980,000
TOTAL ESTIMATED PAYROLL: $118,015,000

Scenario 5:
------------
No FA's come back, Floyd's option refused and all buyouts exercised, and Viciedo is traded for prospects before arbitration.
Add 2 players at minimum to fill roster: $1,960,000
TOTAL ESTIMATED PAYROLL: $98,445,000

--
For reference, the Opening Day 2012 payroll was: $97,669,500.

Adding prorated partial seasons for Youkilis, Liriano, Hudson and call-ups increases 2012 maximum another $7-8M or so, give or take a few million, the Sox spent $105,000,000.

Noneck
10-04-2012, 08:38 PM
Very interesting. It sure looks like the Sox cant be competitive at 97M and probably not even at the 118M option.

getonbckthr
10-04-2012, 08:49 PM
I can definately see Thornton and Crain traded this offseason. Might have to eat some money for Crain but Thornton should be able to be moved cleanly. I don't see any scenario where Humber is back. This offseason may be a good time to trade Rios as well.

DSpivack
10-04-2012, 09:16 PM
I think Viciedo's $6 million is overestimated. Viewing it as similar to Quentin's year is a mistake, IMHO, as Quentin's 2010 was better than Viciedo's 2012, and TCQ also had an MVP-type year in his past in 2008.

LoveYourSuit
10-04-2012, 09:28 PM
Looking at those numbers, how depressing.

I might get the itch for this (baseball) come February.

But if the Sox want to board up the Cell and close for business in 2013, go right ahead.

Brian26
10-04-2012, 09:40 PM
White Sox 2013 Payroll Info: (source: Cot's)

Guaranteed players:
------------------
Danks, John - SP - $15,750,000 (with $1.5 annual bonus) - 4 yrs left (partial NTC)
Dunn, Adam - DH/1B - $15,000,000 - 2yrs left
Rios, Alex - RF/CF - $12,500,000 - 2yrs + TmOpt left (partial NTC)
Konerko, Paul - 1B.DH - $13,500,000 - 2014 FA (10/5 NTC rights)
Ramirez, Alexei - SS - $7,000,000 - 3yrs + TmOpt left
Thornton, Matt - RP - $5,500.00 - 1yr + TmOpt left
Crain, Jesse - RP - $4,500,000 - 2014 FA
Sale, Chris - SP - $775,000 (est. raise from 500K), first arb year 2014
===========================
Total 2013 obligations: $74,525,000


Every team can stomach having one or maybe two guys grossly overpaid, but look at that list above. Brutal.

Dibbs
10-04-2012, 09:56 PM
Nice post, but I didn't realize how bleak next year is looking.

Lip Man 1
10-04-2012, 10:08 PM
It's all going to depend on how much payroll Hahn has to work with and only JR knows the answer to that...although I suspect with all the hints Kenny has said recently about the number of people looking into the Sox attendance issues, what they have to say and projections they have are also going to factor in heavily.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
10-04-2012, 10:16 PM
Every team can stomach having one or maybe two guys grossly overpaid, but look at that list above. Brutal.

Been a huge Kenny supporter since he took the job.

But those numbers there are very close to Jim Hendry material.

palehozenychicty
10-04-2012, 11:40 PM
Yeah. They're too expensive for a middling level of production. Not the most athletic team in the world. Ov vey.

Brewski
10-05-2012, 12:17 AM
Those tomatoes I grew in the backyard for the price of a couple handsful of 10-10-10 fertilizer are far better than the ones I see at the grocery store for $4.00 a pound.

That's an analogy, if anyone needs a hint.

DSpivack
10-05-2012, 12:41 AM
Those tomatoes I grew in the backyard for the price of a couple handsful of 10-10-10 fertilizer are far better than the ones I see at the grocery store for $4.00 a pound.

That's an analogy, if anyone needs a hint.

The Sox do need to do a much better job in the long-run at developing their own position players and stars. Relying on expensive veterans I do think is penny-wise and dollar-foolish. That said, I don't think that is necessarily relevant in building the 2013 team. The Sox can't afford to rebuild and give up on a season or two as other teams can.

russ99
10-05-2012, 07:39 AM
I think Viciedo's $6 million is overestimated. Viewing it as similar to Quentin's year is a mistake, IMHO, as Quentin's 2010 was better than Viciedo's 2012, and TCQ also had an MVP-type year in his past in 2008.

Certainly possible. Maybe I'm overestimating the Boras factor. Since he has a high salary for his age at $3.25M and will get a decent raise due to his 2012 numbers, $4.5-$5M is probably the lowest we can expect.

Hahn has worked pretty well with Boras in the past, Kenny is the one with issues, so maybe we won't get taken to the cleaners on this one.

I'm thinking the key for next year is what Jerry decides with the payroll. Hopefully Kenny's end of year comments mean that we won't see another cut next year due to attendance. Since we were around $105-106 with the in-season additions, I agree we can get some wiggle room by dealing Thornton and Crane.

The other thing I find odd is some of the rumors our there that the Sox may look to re-sign Peavy and/or Youk to lower deals. That would push payroll much higher.

doublem23
10-05-2012, 08:02 AM
The other thing I find odd is some of the rumors our there that the Sox may look to re-sign Peavy and/or Youk to lower deals. That would push payroll much higher.

Wow, you mean like all these people saying how they think the Sox will go back to pre-2005 levels of payroll after one disappointing season are nothing but internet sensationalists reacting emotionally without any basis of fact to back their claims???

I'm quite sure if you go back to this thread last year, you'd see the same kind of apocalyptic pants-pissing by probably the same posters with the same agendas to push that haven't yet been convinced they really don't know what they're talking about. So let's all keep that in mind.

Furthermore, I would suspect that Humber will be non-tendered. I think he's gone. I also think your arb and pre-arb contracts are all running on the high side. But we'll see.

amsteel
10-05-2012, 08:17 AM
I don't see any value in any of the options. I wouldn't mind seeing everyone but Youkilis back, but it would have to be for way less than the options, so they probably won't be back.

Also, Danks better have an above average 2013 or people are gonna do some serious grumbling.

Like others, I'm interested in how Viciedo's arbitration goes since he's the only one on that list with any real leverage. I certainly hope they keep him.

doublem23
10-05-2012, 08:37 AM
Like others, I'm interested in how Viciedo's arbitration goes since he's the only one on that list with any real leverage. I certainly hope they keep him.

What leverage does he have that the others don't?

russ99
10-05-2012, 09:26 AM
Also, if there is some payroll room next year, it would behoove the Sox to get Sale locked up.

With another quality year, he could be looking at a huge increase in his first arbitration year next offseason.

KenBerryGrab
10-05-2012, 10:17 AM
Floyd's option is pretty reasonable, actually, if you look at what starters are paid.

amsteel
10-05-2012, 10:32 AM
What leverage does he have that the others don't?

He's the only one of the 5 that potentially has some unrealized potential, at this point I think we all know who Olmedo, Beckham, Humber and DeAza are.

Viciedo would appear to have some room for growth, whether he does that or not, who knows, but I'm sure they'll use his young age and 'potential' as a bargaining chip.

kittle42
10-05-2012, 10:39 AM
The Sox can't afford to rebuild and give up on a season or two as other teams can.

People keep saying this, but that's what they avoided doing this year and attendance still declined, including the pathetic September showing when the team was in first damn place!

doublem23
10-05-2012, 10:46 AM
People keep saying this, but that's what they avoided doing this year and attendance still declined, including the pathetic September showing when the team was in first damn place!

Right... So, how does that counter his point? Sox fans can't be bothered to show up for a team in 1st place, they certainly aren't willing to sit through any sort of rebuilding effort.

russ99
10-05-2012, 10:47 AM
People keep saying this, but that's what they avoided doing this year and attendance still declined, including the pathetic September showing when the team was in first damn place!

Well put.

They could tear down, but it looks like Rios, Ramirez and Viciedo are the only good trade chips that could bring back quality inexpensive players/prospects.

Dunn's contract, Paul's age and 10/5 rights and Danks' injury and salary the next few years would make them a tough sell, and we'd have to either eat dollars or take a bad contract in return.

Also, we gave lots of playing time to young replacement level and above players this season, so I think the Sox philosophy recently is to add a few young players in each year and let older non-core expensive players go as to not affect the gate while getting younger and cheaper over a number of years.

doublem23
10-05-2012, 10:54 AM
He's the only one of the 5 that potentially has some unrealized potential, at this point I think we all know who Olmedo, Beckham, Humber and DeAza are.

OK, I understand your point. I'm not sure I agree with how much unrealized potential affects the arbitration process since arb year contracts are doled out 1-year at a time, but I would agree that if the Sox were looking to extend any of their young players past their arb years, Viciedo probably would have more leverage than any of the other young players with the exception of Chris Sale. I know he's frustraing, but the number of 23-year-olds who will hit 25 HR in their first full season in the Majors is pretty limited.

kittle42
10-05-2012, 11:34 AM
Right... So, how does that counter his point? Sox fans can't be bothered to show up for a team in 1st place, they certainly aren't willing to sit through any sort of rebuilding effort.

I can't predict what the fanbase does when the team is in first - I really can't predict what they'll do if they're in last.

russ99
10-05-2012, 11:55 AM
OK, I understand your point. I'm not sure I agree with how much unrealized potential affects the arbitration process since arb year contracts are doled out 1-year at a time, but I would agree that if the Sox were looking to extend any of their young players past their arb years, Viciedo probably would have more leverage than any of the other young players with the exception of Chris Sale. I know he's frustraing, but the number of 23-year-olds who will hit 25 HR in their first full season in the Majors is pretty limited.

Which is why IMO Rick Hahn should at least look into trading him now for a spectacular return and financial flexibility while he still has that potential.

I know no player is alike, even Cuban players, but look at Alexei. He's been here 5 full seasons, and while he has a bit more patience and gets into slightly better counts now than earlier, he's still the same free swinger and hacker at pitches outside the zone as he was as a rookie.

Also, Alexei's power numbers looked really good to us the first few years too, and have since declined since then due to pitchers knowing how to get him out.

Bottom line, IMO, we really can't expect massive improvement from Viciedo. Could he be a .240-270 hitter with 30 HRs and 100 RBIs in a few years, yes. But with the poor approach, given away at-bats and borderline awful situational hitting that that comes with it, can we really rely on him to hold down cleanup or 5th once Paul and Rios are gone, unless we expect less from those spots than we do now?

Someone had a famous saying that you know all about a hitter after 1000 at-bats. Well Viciedo has 711 at the end of this season.

hawkjt
10-05-2012, 12:13 PM
Every team can stomach having one or maybe two guys grossly overpaid, but look at that list above. Brutal.


Who is grossly overpaid,based on 2012 performance,outside of the injured Danks?

Rios is probably underpaid,as the best all around rightfielder in the league this year.
Dunn at DH? Probably the most productive DH in the league,by far.

PK? ....maybe, but his first two months before injury carried the team...and he still hit .300,despite concussion,wrist injury,back injury ect.

I think when a team is in first place for 117 days, and finish 3 games back,they had to have performances that are worth good salaries.
The Tigers had a payroll that was probably 40 million higher for 3 more wins....did they get value?

KyWhiSoxFan
10-05-2012, 12:24 PM
Which is why IMO Rick Hahn should at least look into trading him now for a spectacular return and financial flexibility while he still has that potential.

I know no player is alike, even Cuban players, but look at Alexei. He's been here 5 full seasons, and while he has a bit more patience and gets into slightly better counts now than earlier, he's still the same free swinger and hacker at pitches outside the zone as he was as a rookie.

Also, Alexei's power numbers looked really good to us the first few years too, and have since declined since then due to pitchers knowing how to get him out.

Bottom line, IMO, we really can't expect massive improvement from Viciedo. Could he be a .240-270 hitter with 30 HRs and 100 RBIs in a few years, yes. But with the poor approach, given away at-bats and borderline awful situational hitting that that comes with it, can we really rely on him to hold down cleanup or 5th once Paul and Rios are gone, unless we expect less from those spots than we do now?

Someone had a famous saying that you know all about a hitter after 1000 at-bats. Well Viciedo has 711 at the end of this season.

I don't think you gain any financial flexibility in trading Viciedo. Let's say he gets $6million--and you're freeing up $4million from this year--that does not gain you much out of a total of $100m payroll. The big boosts would be in somehow trading Danks or Dunn.

But I do agree with you on Ramirez. He has not improved at the plate (despite having the most? RBIs or a SS this year). I would rather have Viciedo at $6m than Ramirez at $7m. Trade Ramirez when you can get something pretty good for him (like a 3B, C, or outfielder). He's not going to get any better, while Viciedo has a chance to get better. (Especially if he stopped trying to hit every pitch 600 feet.)

Bring in a good fielding SS that can do the little things at the plate and use the Ramirez money on someone else.

palehozenychicty
10-08-2012, 03:48 PM
Right... So, how does that counter his point? Sox fans can't be bothered to show up for a team in 1st place, they certainly aren't willing to sit through any sort of rebuilding effort.

So we'll just be a dreary, mediocre team with flashes until the end of time. Great.

Tragg
10-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Been a huge Kenny supporter since he took the job.

But those numbers there are very close to Jim Hendry material.

Nah -no Soriano numbers on that list.
And Thornton's overpaid - way overpaid on a percentage bases (probably 40% overpaid) but still only a few million.
That's a high buyout for Myers. $3 mill for him? He won't get but $5 mill or so in the open market.

24thStFan
10-09-2012, 12:38 PM
According to the USA Today 2012 MLB salaries database, the White Sox ranked 11th in total payroll. By comparison, the highest ranked club, not surprisingly the Yankees, had a payroll over 101 million dollars higher!

I've been a Sox fan for 58 years and can remember my dad telling me that the Sox would never win anything because they were "cheap." I think this perception continues even today, which may partially explain the attendance issue. I KNOW that in the recent past, the Sox have opened up the purse strings a little, but I still contend that the average fan sees the organization as "cheap."

If the Sox want to REALLY want to make a statement to the fans, spend some money and sign our own and some other big name free agents. We need to compete with the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, Tigers in terms of payroll.

This is Chicago, we should have a big market mentality and be able to attract big name players. It's time to put up the money and show the fans that we're not going to concede the central division to freaking Detroit.

ChicagoG19
10-17-2012, 08:10 PM
Who is grossly overpaid,based on 2012 performance,outside of the injured Danks?

Rios is probably underpaid,as the best all around rightfielder in the league this year.
Dunn at DH? Probably the most productive DH in the league,by far.

PK? ....maybe, but his first two months before injury carried the team...and he still hit .300,despite concussion,wrist injury,back injury ect.

I think when a team is in first place for 117 days, and finish 3 games back,they had to have performances that are worth good salaries.
The Tigers had a payroll that was probably 40 million higher for 3 more wins....did they get value?

Yes, because they are in the playoffs and we are not.

ChicagoG19
10-17-2012, 08:13 PM
According to the USA Today 2012 MLB salaries database, the White Sox ranked 11th in total payroll. By comparison, the highest ranked club, not surprisingly the Yankees, had a payroll over 101 million dollars higher!

I've been a Sox fan for 58 years and can remember my dad telling me that the Sox would never win anything because they were "cheap." I think this perception continues even today, which may partially explain the attendance issue. I KNOW that in the recent past, the Sox have opened up the purse strings a little, but I still contend that the average fan sees the organization as "cheap."

If the Sox want to REALLY want to make a statement to the fans, spend some money and sign our own and some other big name free agents. We need to compete with the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, Tigers in terms of payroll.

This is Chicago, we should have a big market mentality and be able to attract big name players. It's time to put up the money and show the fans that we're not going to concede the central division to freaking Detroit.

Unfortunately it goes back to the chicken and egg argument. The Sox will spend money fans show up and fans claim they will show up when the team spends money. It is my opinion that the Sox held up their end of the bargain. Jerry started to spend the cash when Sox were drawing nearly 3 million in 2006.

Hitmen77
10-17-2012, 08:40 PM
Unfortunately it goes back to the chicken and egg argument. The Sox will spend money fans show up and fans claim they will show up when the team spends money. It is my opinion that the Sox held up their end of the bargain. Jerry started to spend the cash when Sox were drawing nearly 3 million in 2006.

I totally disagree with this statement. Fans don't show up because of the Sox payroll, they show up because of the performance of the team on the field. There is a difference. Look at 2011. High payroll, but do you really think Sox fans were supposed to show up after the team totally stunk up the place that season?

Sure the Sox opened up the purse strings on the major league payroll, but they've also had 4 straight disappointing seasons and 6 disappointing seasons in the last 7. That's why attendance has declined every year, not because the payroll is $X million - it's because the performance on the field has caused the Sox attendance and season ticket number bleed from their highs in 2006 to their status today.

I really, really hope people in Sox management/ownership understands this difference. If they seriously think the way things work is that they throw money at certain players and then fans have to "hold up their end of the deal" even if the team flops, then I don't see much hope in the situation improving any time soon. Just spending money on players like Adam Dunn won't help if the team falls apart during the pennant stretch each year.

In the end, it's not only about spending money on veterans for the major league payroll. Sox management needs to succeed in putting together a team that can go up against the big boys in the AL for more that 1 year. Heck, how about just putting up a team that can string together at least some titles in the weaker AL Central more than once every 5 years or so?

If the current Sox management can't pull of that task, then maybe there needs to be changes in management.

One last thing about payroll - yes, JR ponied up money for the MLB payroll in recent years. That's good because it's often a key component for a competitive team. But how much has Sox ownership invested in scouting, player development, etc. over the last 10 years? I really don't know much about what they're doing with the minor league system, but I can plainly see that it's not working in terms of giving this team enough depth to be a pennant contender.

If Sox management really has questions about why attendance is declining, I hope they're looking no further than the mirror.

Mr. Jinx
10-18-2012, 07:22 AM
Unfortunately it goes back to the chicken and egg argument. The Sox will spend money fans show up and fans claim they will show up when the team spends money. It is my opinion that the Sox held up their end of the bargain. Jerry started to spend the cash when Sox were drawing nearly 3 million in 2006.

Absolutely not. Sox fans show up if the team is winning, not because they throw around money on bad contracts like Peavy, Dunn, Rios, etc

asindc
10-18-2012, 08:15 AM
Been a huge Kenny supporter since he took the job.

But those numbers there are very close to Jim Hendry material.

Not even close. Thornton is grossly overpaid, but that's it. John Danks is overpaid, but he would have gotten that deal from several different teams, so it reflects the market. So do the rest of the contracts.

socko82
10-18-2012, 10:32 AM
Like others, I'm interested in how Viciedo's arbitration goes since he's the only one on that list with any real leverage. I certainly hope they keep him.

According to Scott Merkin, Viciedo has 1.123 years of Major League service time and is not arbitration eligible until after the 2014 season so unless he plans on holding out he has zero leverage. He's not getting a raise to 6 million per.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121012&content_id=39750752

Lip Man 1
10-18-2012, 11:44 AM
Gonzo mentioned this today in a column:

"Contrary to an internet report, the Sox have committed $65.25 million to seven players for 2013 (Paul Konerko will earn $6.5 million in 2013, plus $1 million annually from 2014-20)."

Lip

DSpivack
10-18-2012, 01:55 PM
Gonzo mentioned this today in a column:

"Contrary to an internet report, the Sox have committed $65.25 million to seven players for 2013 (Paul Konerko will earn $6.5 million in 2013, plus $1 million annually from 2014-20)."

Lip

I didn't realize Konerko's contract was deferred. Also, that number is exactly what Gonzo says, the dollars committed to those players signed for next season. It does not take into account buyouts for Peavy ($4 million), Youkilis ($1 milion), and Myers ($3 million). It also does not factor in contracts for arbitration-eligible players such as Humber, Beckham and De Aza (I suspect Humber will be released, however); I also am not sure who, if else, is arbitration-eligible.

24thStFan
10-18-2012, 02:42 PM
I totally disagree with this statement. Fans don't show up because of the Sox payroll, they show up because of the performance of the team on the field. There is a difference. Look at 2011. High payroll, but do you really think Sox fans were supposed to show up after the team totally stunk up the place that season?

Sure the Sox opened up the purse strings on the major league payroll, but they've also had 4 straight disappointing seasons and 6 disappointing seasons in the last 7. That's why attendance has declined every year, not because the payroll is $X million - it's because the performance on the field has caused the Sox attendance and season ticket number bleed from their highs in 2006 to their status today.

I really, really hope people in Sox management/ownership understands this difference. If they seriously think the way things work is that they throw money at certain players and then fans have to "hold up their end of the deal" even if the team flops, then I don't see much hope in the situation improving any time soon. Just spending money on players like Adam Dunn won't help if the team falls apart during the pennant stretch each year.

In the end, it's not only about spending money on veterans for the major league payroll. Sox management needs to succeed in putting together a team that can go up against the big boys in the AL for more that 1 year. Heck, how about just putting up a team that can string together at least some titles in the weaker AL Central more than once every 5 years or so?

If the current Sox management can't pull of that task, then maybe there needs to be changes in management.

I agree that performance on the field matters. And I know that, since the world championship, the Sox have been one of the top five paying MLB teams four times ('06, '07, '08, and '11).

However, I still believe there is a perception among "general" fans that the Sox management won't spend the dough to compete with the "big boys" and sign some really outstanding players. It's my opinion that this perception also impacts attendance.

soxfanreggie
10-19-2012, 01:22 PM
Who is grossly overpaid,based on 2012 performance,outside of the injured Danks?

Rios is probably underpaid,as the best all around rightfielder in the league this year.
Dunn at DH? Probably the most productive DH in the league,by far.

PK? ....maybe, but his first two months before injury carried the team...and he still hit .300,despite concussion,wrist injury,back injury ect.

I think when a team is in first place for 117 days, and finish 3 games back,they had to have performances that are worth good salaries.
The Tigers had a payroll that was probably 40 million higher for 3 more wins....did they get value?

1.) For how much he's getting paid, I still think Dunn is overpaid. Yes, he was a productive power hitter, but I still wouldn't pay $15 million for him.

2.) If they win the World Series, then yes it was worth it. They're four wins away from being there.

russ99
11-01-2012, 10:32 AM
Updated White Sox 2013 Payroll as of 11/1/12 (source: Cot's)

Guaranteed players:
------------------
Danks, John - SP - $15,750,000 ($1.5 bonus/yr) - 4 yrs left (partial NTC)
Dunn, Adam - DH/1B - $15,000,000 - 2yrs left
Peavy, Jake - SP - $14,500,000 - 2yrs left with conditional option + 2012 buyout($1M each in 2016-19)
Rios, Alex - RF/CF - $12,500,000 - 2yrs + TmOpt left (partial NTC)
Konerko, Paul - 1B/DH - $13,500,000 - 2013 FA (10/5 NTC rights)
Floyd, Gavin - SP - $9,500,000 - 2013 FA
Ramirez, Alexei - SS - $7,000,000 - 3yrs + TmOpt left
Thornton, Matt - RP - $5,500.00 - 1yr + TmOpt left
Crain, Jesse - RP - $4,500,000 - 2013 FA
Viciedo, Dayan - LF - $3,750,000 (est. raise from $3,250,00, Boras may get $4M), first arb year likely 2013
Sale, Chris - SP - $775,000 (est. raise from 500K), first arb year 2013
===========================
Total: $102,275,000

Near-minimum players, multiple yrs before arb
---------------------------------------------
Reed, Addison - $675,000 (est. raise from 480K),
Jones, Nate - RP - $625,000 (est. raise from 480K),
Santiago, Hector - $600,000 (est. raise from 480K),
Morel, Brent - 3B - $535,000 (est. raise from 490K),
Flowers, Tyler - C - $535,000 (est. raise from 483K),
Danks, Jordan - OF- minimum ($490,000 in 2013)
Quintana, Jose - P - minimum ($490,000)
Veal, Donald - P - minimum ($490,000)
=============================
Running total: $106,715,000
--------------------

Arbitration eligible:
--------------------
DeAza, Alejandro - CF - Arb1 - $2,500,000 (est. - 2012: $495,000)
Beckham, Gordon - 2B - Arb1 - $2,250,000 (est. - 2012: $520,000)
Humber, Phil - P - Arb1 - $1,750,000 (est. - 2012: $530,000)
Olmedo, Rey - IF - Arb1 - $570,000 (est. - 2012: minimum)
====================
23 players - Running Total: $113,785,000

2013 Options:
---------------
Youkilis, Kevin - 3B - $1,000,000 buyout
Myers, Brett - RP - $3,000,000 buyout
====================
Running Total with Youkilis and Myers buyouts: $117,735,000
--------------------

Free Agents:
------------
Youkilis, Kevin - 3B - 2013 Salary: $12,000,000 (est FA signing salary: $10,000,000)
Liriano, Francisco - SP - 2013 salary: $5,500,000 (est FA signing salary: $9,250,000)
Myers, Brett - RP - 2013 Salary: $12,250,000 (est FA signing salary: $8,500,000)
Pierzynski, A.J. - C - 2013 salary: $6,000,000 (est FA signing salary: $8,000,000)
Hudson, Orlando - IF - 2013 salary: $5,500,000 (est FA signing salary: $2,250,000)
-------------

Current total Payroll: $117,735,000

Payroll with A.J. resigning a team-friendly deal for $7.5M $121,285,000

For reference, the Opening Day payroll for 2012 was: $97,669,500.
Adding prorated partial seasons for Youkilis, Liriano, Hudson and call-ups increases 2012 maximum another $8M or so.

--

The Sox are way above where I thought they'd be.
Something has to give. Gotta wonder if one of Danks, Dunn or Rios is dealt to get down to an expected payroll level.

doublem23
11-01-2012, 10:54 AM
Something has to give. Gotta wonder if one of Danks, Dunn or Rios is dealt to get down to an expected payroll level.

It's also very possible that the amount you expected them to spend on payroll was severly underestimated.

russ99
11-01-2012, 01:14 PM
It's also very possible that the amount you expected them to spend on payroll was severly underestimated.

Possible. But cutting ticket prices and raising payroll $10-15M in the same season ain't Jerry's style.

If it happens, awesome. But until we go into spring training with this group, I wonder if the shoe will drop.

doublem23
11-01-2012, 01:24 PM
Possible. But cutting ticket prices and raising payroll $10-15M in the same season ain't Jerry's style.

Yeah but remember the Sox just got an extra $26 million or so annually from the new Fox TV contract to play with

Noneck
11-01-2012, 01:27 PM
Possible. But cutting ticket prices and raising payroll $10-15M in the same season ain't Jerry's style.

If it happens, awesome. But until we go into spring training with this group, I wonder if the shoe will drop.


Not all tic prices are being reduced. The ones that are being increased will be sold and thats sure money in the coffers. Maybe this so called ticket reduction will actually increase revenue. This organization is not stupid when it comes to money.

doublem23
11-01-2012, 01:31 PM
Not all tic prices are being reduced. The ones that are being increased will be sold and thats sure money in the coffers. Maybe this so called ticket reduction will actually increase revenue. This organization is not stupid when it comes to money.

That's very possible. The tickets the Sox have slashed prices on were the ones that were rarely filled except for a handful of games whereas the tickets that are increasing in price were sold out, and likely will continue to sell out, for all 81 home dates.