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View Full Version : Will Stone return to the booth in '13?


kba
09-30-2012, 08:04 PM
Talking with Boers and Bernstein last week, Stone seemed unenthusiastic about returning to the TV booth next year. He's under contract until 2014, but when asked directly if he'll be back next year, he said the travel is getting harder and said, "we'll have to see what happens." Also, in a not-too-thinly-veiled criticism of Hawk, he talked about how much he enjoyed the "conversational" broadcast with Mike Huff on the night Hawk was sick.

Comments are at 16:07 on this link (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2F redirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd1%2Fd1%2FdD%2Fd5%2Fd7%2F11D57_4.MP3%3Fauthto k%3D5561890649027269357_SBxulTjyJNjYs4xYupALpVeaE&podcast_name=Boers+and+Bernstein+Hour+2+-+9%2F28%2F12&podcast_artist=Boers+and+Bernstein&station_id=391&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.CHI).

I'd miss Stone if he decides to leave, but I hope the Sox would take the opportunity to refresh both the TV and radio crews and bring in some major-market quality talent. (Please, no more ex-players without broadcast experience, no matter how loyal they've been to the team.) Listening to John Rooney call the Sox-Tigers Sunday night game on ESPN radio a couple weeks ago brought back a lot of good memories.

KingXerxes
09-30-2012, 08:06 PM
Talking with Boers and Bernstein last week, Stone seemed unenthusiastic about returning to the TV booth next year. He's under contract until 2014, but when asked directly if he'll be back next year, he said the travel is getting harder and said, "we'll have to see what happens." Also, in a not-too-thinly-veiled criticism of Hawk, he talked about how much he enjoyed the "conversational" broadcast with Mike Huff on the night Hawk was sick.

Comments are at 16:07 on this link (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2F redirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd1%2Fd1%2FdD%2Fd5%2Fd7%2F11D57_4.MP3%3Fauthto k%3D5561890649027269357_SBxulTjyJNjYs4xYupALpVeaE&podcast_name=Boers+and+Bernstein+Hour+2+-+9%2F28%2F12&podcast_artist=Boers+and+Bernstein&station_id=391&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.CHI).

I'd miss Stone if he decides to leave, but I hope the Sox would take the opportunity to refresh both the TV and radio crews and bring in some major-market quality talent. (Please, no more ex-players without broadcast experience, no matter how loyal they've been to the team.) Listening to John Rooney call the Sox-Tigers Sunday night game on ESPN radio a couple weeks ago brought back a lot of good memories.

I heard that interview as well. It almost seemed like a farewell address. It was interesting as well that he referenced Harrelson without saying his name in the interview.

tstrike2000
09-30-2012, 08:26 PM
I like both Hawk and Stone for what they bring. I've grown up with Hawk's enthusiasm and Stone's overall knowledge during in-game situations. Sometimes though, Hawk debates or overrides Stone with what he knows and Stone seems to just go through the motions and do nothing but state the obvious. Whether it's ego, the travel or whatever I hope the Sox find a viable replacement.

SephClone89
09-30-2012, 08:28 PM
Hawk completely stifles Stone.

Would this be the third guy Hawk has run out of the booth?

KingXerxes
09-30-2012, 08:31 PM
I've posted in another thread about this, but will repeat it.

Most people agree the White Sox have a marketing problem, and its hard to argue that your biggest marketing dynamic are your daily broadcasts of games, but their are a lot of White Sox fans, evidently, who view Harrelson (and Farmer although to a much lesser extent) as a sacred cow.

Dump Harrelson, keep Stone and get a professional PBP guy.

soltrain21
09-30-2012, 08:39 PM
I've posted in another thread about this, but will repeat it.

Most people agree the White Sox have a marketing problem, and its hard to argue that your biggest marketing dynamic are your daily broadcasts of games, but their are a lot of White Sox fans, evidently, who view Harrelson (and Farmer although to a much lesser extent) as a sacred cow.

Dump Harrelson, keep Stone and get a professional PBP guy.

Yep. If they keep Hawk over Stone then, well, just add it to the list of disappointments.

Brian26
09-30-2012, 08:56 PM
In terms of marketing the team, Steve Stone is the worst thing to happen to the Sox in the past four years.

I'm surprised so many people are oblivious to this fact.

I'd take Hawk and DJ back in a heartbeat over Stone being in the booth. I don't think at this point that is the solution to the problem, but it's a statement to the fact that the Sox fanbase wants to listen homer announcers, either on the radio or tv side. Even John Rooney was a homer announcer. Steve Stone has gone out of his way to be as anti-homer and unenthusiastic about the Sox product as anyone possibly could, whether goofing on how bad the bobbleheads looked this year, to making fun of fans eating food in the stands when the tv cameras are on them, to refusing to show any enthusiasm after a big Sox hit or homer. Steve Stone hasn't sold a ticket to a Sox game since he joined the radio side in 2008.

My dream would be for Rooney to come back to Chicago. Team him back with Farmer and try to rekindle that magic.

Second choice would be for the Sox to raid the Mariners broadcast booth and bring Rick Rizz and Dave Sims over.

Third choice would be to get Dave Wills back to town.

A house-cleaning is in order. Stone and Farmer should be the first ones to go. Hawk may need to go after that. I'm the biggest Harrelson supporter there is, but his behavior over the past two weeks have been inexcusable and is pretty much a basis for firing. I know 1-9 in ten games is awful, but at least show up and try to do a professional broadcast. Of the four announcers, amazingly, the one guy I might consider keeping is DJ.

In the back of my mind, I still remember the series from Oakland in 2003 when Rooney went over to the tv side and teamed with DJ. Hawk was out for some reason. It was a great series. Unfortunately, I think DJ's been relegated to the goofy sidekick role with Hawk and Farmer for the past 13 years. If he was ever teamed up with a real announcer, he'd probably be able to shine.

Ok - that went longer than I thought. Point is, Stone sucks and he can go back to the Cubs.

TaylorStSox
09-30-2012, 08:57 PM
I've posted in another thread about this, but will repeat it.

Most people agree the White Sox have a marketing problem, and its hard to argue that your biggest marketing dynamic are your daily broadcasts of games, but their are a lot of White Sox fans, evidently, who view Harrelson (and Farmer although to a much lesser extent) as a sacred cow.

Dump Harrelson, keep Stone and get a professional PBP guy.
This. The franchise needs to re-brand. The product on the field, and in the booth, is stale. I always said I'd be livid if Hawk's bully ass ran Stone out of town. The prospect of listening to Hawk with some "yes man" crony seems unbearable at this point. It'll really kill my enthusiasm for the Sox and baseball in general. Frankly, Stone is the only reason I can deal with Hawk. I might have to take some time away from baseball until Hawk retires. I just can't deal with him anymore.

soxfan21
09-30-2012, 08:58 PM
Bring Wimpy back?

Tragg
09-30-2012, 08:59 PM
Wimpy just hypes Hawk. It becomes Hawk to the 3rd power.

I'd rather a more professional broadcast. Stone and someone else.

TaylorStSox
09-30-2012, 09:00 PM
In terms of marketing the team, Steve Stone is the worst thing to happen to the Sox in the past four years.

I'm surprised so many people are oblivious to this fact.

I'd take Hawk and DJ back in a heartbeat over Stone being in the booth. I don't think at this point that is the solution to the problem, but it's a statement to the fact that the Sox fanbase wants to listen homer announcers, either on the radio or tv side. Even John Rooney was a homer announcer. Steve Stone has gone out of his way to be as anti-homer and unenthusiastic about the Sox product as anyone possibly could, whether goofing on how bad the bobbleheads looked this year, to making fun of fans eating food in the stands when the tv cameras are on them, to refusing to show any enthusiasm after a big Sox hit or homer. Steve Stone hasn't sold a ticket to a Sox game since he joined the radio side in 2008.

My dream would be for Rooney to come back to Chicago. Team him back with Farmer and try to rekindle that magic.

Second choice would be for the Sox to raid the Mariners broadcast booth and bring Rick Rizz and Dave Sims over.

Third choice would be to get Dave Wills back to town.

A house-cleaning is in order. Stone and Farmer should be the first ones to go. Hawk may need to go after that. I'm the biggest Harrelson supporter there is, but his behavior over the past two weeks have been inexcusable and is pretty much a basis for firing. I know 1-9 in ten games is awful, but at least show up and try to do a professional broadcast. Of the four announcers, amazingly, the one guy I might consider keeping is DJ.

In the back of my mind, I still remember the series from Oakland in 2003 when Rooney went over to the tv side and teamed with DJ. Hawk was out for some reason. It was a great series. Unfortunately, I think DJ's been relegated to the goofy sidekick role with Hawk and Farmer for the past 13 years. If he was ever teamed up with a real announcer, he'd probably be able to shine.

Ok - that went longer than I thought. Point is, Stone sucks and he can go back to the Cubs.

Since most people don't get it, I'm going to yell it. WE DON'T MIND THAT HAWK'S A HOMER! The problem is that he's a bully, a one trick pony, a sound board, washed up, tired, irritating and most importantly, a baby.

ChiSoxGal85
09-30-2012, 09:03 PM
I've noticed some pretty long stoney (heh heh) silences during the Hawk-Stone TV broadcasts these past few weeks. I suppose some of that could be attributed to disappointment in the Sox collapse of late, but it sure seems awkward in there.

KingXerxes
09-30-2012, 09:08 PM
A house-cleaning is in order. Stone and Farmer should be the first ones to go. Hawk may need to go after that. I'm the biggest Harrelson supporter there is, but his behavior over the past two weeks have been inexcusable and is pretty much a basis for firing. I know 1-9 in ten games is awful, but at least show up and try to do a professional broadcast. Of the four announcers, amazingly, the one guy I might consider keeping is DJ.

I don't mind Jackson either, but he is saddled with Farmer throwing conversations over to him to which the fastest minds in the world couldn't respond:

:farmer

"Seeing that line drive hit the chalk line and kick up some of that chalk powder reminds me of my rookie season.................anybody ever make you lick the chalk stripe as a rookie?????"

:DJ

"......................................What?"

SephClone89
09-30-2012, 09:15 PM
I don't mind Jackson either, but he is saddled with Farmer throwing conversations over to him to which the fastest minds in the world couldn't respond:



I saw a brilliant transcription of an actual Farmer/DJ conversation on another site:

:farmer
"Did you see Southpaw today?"

:DJ
"No. Did you?"

:farmer
"No."

KingXerxes
09-30-2012, 09:18 PM
Precisely.

Can you imagine your job being a person who is supposed to compliment the conversations started by the guy sitting next to you, and you never have any clue as to what he's going to say next?

It's got to be exhausting.

jdm2662
09-30-2012, 09:18 PM
Hawk needs to go, period. And no, I won't miss him. I don't care if he is a homer. All local announcers in all sports are homers in some way. Hell, Wayne Larrivere was a life time Packers fan. And yet, he pretended to be a Bears fan for 13 seasons. Why? Because, the Bears signed his pay checks.

It's quite obvious Stone and Hawk aren't going to work anymore. Both men have giant egos. In Hawks case, he has to be the show and will only work with yes men. And, if you question him, how dare you! But, it's time to re-brand. Both the TV and radio broadcasts are unbearable and almost embarassing sometimes. I will fully admit I didn't quite go down with the ship. Why? Part of it was because I don't know what would be worse, the broadcasts or the play itself.

DSpivack
09-30-2012, 09:20 PM
I saw a brilliant transcription of an actual Farmer/DJ conversation on another site:

:farmer
"Did you see Southpaw today?"

:DJ
"No. Did you?"

:farmer
"No."

The only way I can deal with that radio team is to just listen to whatever nonsense they come up with next and laugh at it.

tstrike2000
09-30-2012, 09:20 PM
I, too, actually liked DJ in the booth with Hawk. Granted, I haven't listend to Farmer and DJ a ton over the last two or three years, but when I have, their banter was sometimes unlistenable.

SephClone89
09-30-2012, 09:22 PM
The only way I can deal with that radio team is to just listen to whatever nonsense they come up with next and laugh at it.

I haven't listend to Farmer and DJ a ton over the last two or three years, but when I have, their banter was sometimes unlistenable.

I honestly listen to games less often because of it. Sometimes I opt for 620 and listen to Uecker instead. Hell, sometimes I pick WGN, too.

My father apparently got the Cleveland feed of one of this past week's games in the car the other night and was listening to that over Farmer and DJ.

Brian26
09-30-2012, 09:25 PM
Since most people don't get it, I'm going to yell it. WE DON'T MIND THAT HAWK'S A HOMER! The problem is that he's a bully, a one trick pony, a sound board, washed up, tired, irritating and most importantly, a baby.

Like I said, I've defended Hawk for years. His behavior over the past two weeks has been pretty despicable. The dude had no business being on the air this weekend. He was unfit to broadcast.

DSpivack
09-30-2012, 09:28 PM
Like I said, I've defended Hawk for years. His behavior over the past two weeks has been pretty despicable. The dude had no business being on the air this weekend. He was unfit to broadcast.

I often watch games with the volume on low or just completely tune out Hawk and Stoney. What has he done/said in the past fortnight?

TommyGavinFloyd
09-30-2012, 09:29 PM
Like I said, I've defended Hawk for years. His behavior over the past two weeks has been pretty despicable. The dude had no business being on the air this weekend. He was unfit to broadcast.

Who cares. The team was also unfit to be playing. Anything Hawk did the last few weeks, I honestly could not care less because it will be blocked out of my mind faster than you can say "He Gone". See you in April, Hawk.

As for Stone, I don't care if he is there or not. He's alright but I liked DJ better.

WhiteSox5187
09-30-2012, 09:29 PM
It would be difficult for the White Sox to justify losing the one professional broadcaster they have.

SephClone89
09-30-2012, 09:31 PM
It would be difficult for the White Sox to justify losing the one professional broadcaster they have.

They'll just say something about "brand" and they'll be set.

Brian26
09-30-2012, 09:37 PM
It would be difficult for the White Sox to justify losing the one professional broadcaster they have.

The one that exudes the least emotional stake in the team and could be replaced with a robot that would do a better job of selling the product?

tstrike2000
09-30-2012, 09:38 PM
Like I said, I've defended Hawk for years. His behavior over the past two weeks has been pretty despicable. The dude had no business being on the air this weekend. He was unfit to broadcast.

Besides the childish behavior, do you think it's just time for him to do something else based on the fact that he's also too emotionally tied to the team? It's almost like he's crossed that line where now it's just too much of a conflict of interest.

The Immigrant
09-30-2012, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't miss him a bit.

The Immigrant
09-30-2012, 09:40 PM
Besides the childish behavior, do you think it's just time for him to do something else based on the fact that he's also too emotionally tied to the team? It's almost like he's crossed that line where now it's just too much of a conflict of interest.

He should retire and spend some time with his grandkids before another disappointing season kills him.

Iron Dragon2
09-30-2012, 09:45 PM
Like I said, I've defended Hawk for years. His behavior over the past two weeks has been pretty despicable. The dude had no business being on the air this weekend. He was unfit to broadcast.
Wow, what'd he say??

kba
09-30-2012, 10:02 PM
Wow, what'd he say??

Almost nothing. That's the problem.

DickAllen72
09-30-2012, 10:21 PM
Wow, what'd he say??
He said something about the five worst words you can tell a hitter is "He has a good changeup."

WhiteSox5187
09-30-2012, 10:27 PM
The one that exudes the least emotional stake in the team and could be replaced with a robot that would do a better job of selling the product?

I think he is better than the guy who sulks in total silence half the time and divides the fan base let alone new customers. What new customers does Hawk bring to US Cellular Field? Half of White Sox fans can't stand him.

shingo10
09-30-2012, 10:32 PM
As long as Hawk is alive and in good health he will be broadcasting for the White Sox. Jerry Reinsdorf's extreme loyalty will assure that. I am the biggest Hawk supporter out there because he is the last of a dying (or maybe dead) breed. His old time stories and nostalgia he brings to the booth is what makes me so excited to watch Sox games. Also the passion he shows is unmatched by any other announcer. I always run to listen to his calls of certain key moments (either good or bad) in games.

That being said it's obvious that Stone is not comfortable embracing the Sox as "his" team. As Brian26 has said he just will not do anything to show support of the Sox brand and product and its inexcusable IMO. Hawk's unique style works with anybody who also cares that the Sox succeed. It doesn't work with a national style broadcast which is what Stone tries to bring.

Like I said I'm extremely biased towards Hawk and would be devastated if he was ever forced to leave...the game with Stone and Huff was painful to listen to. Lacked the excitement that a Sox game should bring. Just my two cents.

Lip Man 1
09-30-2012, 10:57 PM
You never say never but the chances of Dave coming back are pretty remote. He's liked in Tampa, they have a good thing going (save for attendance) and from what I've been told some folks in the Sox front office where never able to get JR to sign-off on him.

I think Dave is pretty good myself and there's no question he's a Sox fan but apparently the connection with the owner never happened and it appears that's part of the deal to get the job.

Lip

TaylorStSox
09-30-2012, 11:10 PM
As long as Hawk is alive and in good health he will be broadcasting for the White Sox. Jerry Reinsdorf's extreme loyalty will assure that. I am the biggest Hawk supporter out there because he is the last of a dying (or maybe dead) breed. His old time stories and nostalgia he brings to the booth is what makes me so excited to watch Sox games. Also the passion he shows is unmatched by any other announcer. I always run to listen to his calls of certain key moments (either good or bad) in games.

That being said it's obvious that Stone is not comfortable embracing the Sox as "his" team. As Brian26 has said he just will not do anything to show support of the Sox brand and product and its inexcusable IMO. Hawk's unique style works with anybody who also cares that the Sox succeed. It doesn't work with a national style broadcast which is what Stone tries to bring.

Like I said I'm extremely biased towards Hawk and would be devastated if he was ever forced to leave...the game with Stone and Huff was painful to listen to. Lacked the excitement that a Sox game should bring. Just my two cents.

I'm on the complete opposite end of the scale. I'm at my breaking point with Hawk. My passion for White Sox baseball will always be there, but I'm not going to subject myself to Hawk anymore. Stone does his best to keep Hawk in check. If the Sox replace him with an enabler, I can't see myself watching White Sox games until Harrelson retires. Stone doesn't act like a fan because he tries to bring some sort of balance to the broadcast. He keeps his composure. I appreciate that he remains a professional despite the way the Sox are playing. Hawk pouts. He bitches and moans. He worsens the mood. I watch games for entertainment. Hawk fails in that regard.

LoveYourSuit
09-30-2012, 11:22 PM
Bad baseball = Bad broadcast

Nellie_Fox
10-01-2012, 12:15 AM
Precisely.

Can you imagine your job being a person who is supposed to compliment the conversations started by the guy sitting next to you, and you never have any clue as to what he's going to say next?

It's got to be exhausting.First of all, I think it's better to complement rather than compliment your partner in this situation. Second, I've heard many instances this year where Hawk dropped a statement that was clearly designed for Stone to expand on, and Stone started talking about something else entirely; either deliberately ignoring what Hawk had said or not listening to him. There's times when I've felt an "I'm too good to be stuck in the booth with this guy" attitude from Stone.

Besides the childish behavior, do you think it's just time for him to do something else based on the fact that he's also too emotionally tied to the team? It's almost like he's crossed that line where now it's just too much of a conflict of interest.How in the hell can the home-team announcer have a "conflict of interest" by being "emotionally tied to the team?" What interest is in conflict with what other interest?

RCWHITESOX
10-01-2012, 12:16 AM
I don't know who might be available as a broadcaster; but something has to be done. I've allways enjoyed Steve Stone; but Hawk Harrelson has just been terrible over the last few years. Being a homer is one thing but he has become more of a cornball than a professional.

MARTINMVP
10-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Would it be out of line to move Hawk to the radio broadcast?

LITTLE NELL
10-01-2012, 06:53 AM
I'm a Hawk fan and for all I care Stone can go back to the Cubs.
I can't remember in his stint here so far saying things like ''we need a hit right here''. When the Sox hit a homer all he does is tell you what number HR it was and how many RBIs the guy has, he shows no emotion at all. He is exciting as white bread. If he wants to leave, good riddance.

harwar
10-01-2012, 07:08 AM
Everyone has different tastes is suppose and mine lean in the direction of Hawk retiring .. i didn't listen to Steve Stone during his cub years very much just because i don't watch cub games that often, but i did hear him quite a bit when he worked for espn .. he was a totally different guy .. animated .. talkative .. joking .. full of baseball insight .. it was that insight that first drew my attention to him .. when he came here he just changed like someone threw a switch and i know it's because he shares the booth with hawk .. i was at a loss to understand why he signed that contract,knowing full well what he was getting into, but i guess that maybe he thought that if he could work with Harry then he could work with Hawk .. Hawk just isn't the kind of pbp guy that anyone can have a running conversational type broadcast with .. he tells the stories and who ever is next to him has to agree and also i think that people forget how he used to bully Wimpy all the time .. they weren't always buddy buddy like they are now .. i have always loved Hawk because he lived and died with each pitch the same as me, and because i'm of the same age bracket,but he has really gone downhill the last few years and often i will listen to the other teams feed just to get away from him .. i would love if he retired and a polished,intelligent and articulate pbp man would be brought in, maybe even letting Stone have a say on the replacement .. i feel a bit like a traitor talking against Hawk like this,but enough is enough .. on the radio side, it is what it is .. i would love to have Dave Wills on the radio side doing pbp and keep Farmer or DJ as color guy, but how is that ever going to happen when he has a pretty good setup in florida ..

MARTINMVP
10-01-2012, 07:35 AM
I thought Stone showed some emotion the day Joe West called those two balks on Mark Buehrle. Stone wasn't whiney or animated, but the emotion in his voice seemed that he was not happy.

Stone used to joke more when working for the Cubs, but he didn't go out of his way to show more enthusiasm or make it obvious he was cheering for the Cubs.

102605
10-01-2012, 07:41 AM
Keep Stone and fire everybody else. Time to clean house.

tstrike2000
10-01-2012, 08:00 AM
How in the hell can the home-team announcer have a "conflict of interest" by being "emotionally tied to the team?" What interest is in conflict with what other interest?

By letting his emotions get to him to the point where he's not doing his job of announcing the game to a listening audience. I think the same could be said in times where Hawk has to make sure everyone knows how much he knows (or thinks he knows about a subject) or just his rants about something. In those times, it's not announcing, it's a pissing contest.

Everyone here who listens to Hawk knows his emotions and for the most part I've enjoyed them. However, if he's going to let things affect him to the point where he shouldn't be in the booth, maybe it's time for something else.

slavko
10-01-2012, 08:36 AM
Bad baseball = Bad broadcast

Brevity is the soul of wit (Hamlet). And this thread, as well. We're starting to attack ourselves. When the battle is over, I hope we don't eat the remains.

None of these guys ever sold a ticket to a game. I include Rooney, who gets greater every year in the eyes of some of you. Harry sold tickets but he was one of a kind.

russ99
10-01-2012, 08:40 AM
In terms of marketing the team, Steve Stone is the worst thing to happen to the Sox in the past four years.

I'm surprised so many people are oblivious to this fact.

I'd take Hawk and DJ back in a heartbeat over Stone being in the booth. I don't think at this point that is the solution to the problem, but it's a statement to the fact that the Sox fanbase wants to listen homer announcers, either on the radio or tv side. Even John Rooney was a homer announcer. Steve Stone has gone out of his way to be as anti-homer and unenthusiastic about the Sox product as anyone possibly could, whether goofing on how bad the bobbleheads looked this year, to making fun of fans eating food in the stands when the tv cameras are on them, to refusing to show any enthusiasm after a big Sox hit or homer. Steve Stone hasn't sold a ticket to a Sox game since he joined the radio side in 2008.

My dream would be for Rooney to come back to Chicago. Team him back with Farmer and try to rekindle that magic.

Second choice would be for the Sox to raid the Mariners broadcast booth and bring Rick Rizz and Dave Sims over.

Third choice would be to get Dave Wills back to town.

A house-cleaning is in order. Stone and Farmer should be the first ones to go. Hawk may need to go after that. I'm the biggest Harrelson supporter there is, but his behavior over the past two weeks have been inexcusable and is pretty much a basis for firing. I know 1-9 in ten games is awful, but at least show up and try to do a professional broadcast. Of the four announcers, amazingly, the one guy I might consider keeping is DJ.

In the back of my mind, I still remember the series from Oakland in 2003 when Rooney went over to the tv side and teamed with DJ. Hawk was out for some reason. It was a great series. Unfortunately, I think DJ's been relegated to the goofy sidekick role with Hawk and Farmer for the past 13 years. If he was ever teamed up with a real announcer, he'd probably be able to shine.

Ok - that went longer than I thought. Point is, Stone sucks and he can go back to the Cubs.

+1, my sentiments exactly.

Seems like they hired Stone due to history as being the #2 guy with iconic broadcasters, and he wants to be the main guy.

If Hawk does hang it up (hopefully not too soon), then they should clean house and start over with a new crew.

doublem23
10-01-2012, 08:58 AM
Just out of curiosity, and I don't like Hawk very much, either, but do people really think the TV and radio announcers bring fans to the park? Like, do you actually think there is this subgroup of Sox fans that want to go see the team live and in person, but don't because Hawk Harrelson and Ed Farmer are butchering the games on TV and the radio?

SephClone89
10-01-2012, 09:02 AM
Just out of curiosity, and I don't like Hawk very much, either, but do people really think the TV and radio announcers bring fans to the park? Like, do you actually think there is this subgroup of Sox fans that want to go see the team live and in person, but don't because Hawk Harrelson and Ed Farmer are butchering the games on TV and the radio?

I'm more likely to see the team live and in person because Hawk and Farmer are butchering the games.

If we had a great broadcasting team I'd probably go to fewer games.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-01-2012, 09:14 AM
Just out of curiosity, and I don't like Hawk very much, either, but do people really think the TV and radio announcers bring fans to the park? Like, do you actually think there is this subgroup of Sox fans that want to go see the team live and in person, but don't because Hawk Harrelson and Ed Farmer are butchering the games on TV and the radio?

In many respects, this is the most important question facing Sox brass. If the announcers can be seen as part of the marketing arm of the team (which I believe), then in my opinion some of the blame on the attendance problems over the past decade can be traced to Harrelson. He is one of the biggest homers when it comes to announcers on in TV (from a recent poll), so you can draw a conclusion that he has not been successful in creating new fans, since the Sox have had attendance problems for years.

Fandom is not all created merely by wins and losses (as can be seen by the support of teams like the Cubs) but by latent and nurtured feelings about a team, what it stands for, its public perception, how it plays to a person's feelings and sense of belonging. Harrelson creates a feeling of persecution, made up of bad calls, bad luck, and incessant woe-is-me play by play. People tune it to baseball as a diversion and they don't want to hear all this negativity.

Harrelson has not created new fans because he only preaches to the choir. And the choir does not like him universally, either.

Would we be having this discussion if Vin Scully were the announcer for the past 20 years?

lpneck
10-01-2012, 09:21 AM
The deal with Hawk is simple: (and generally I like him, but he does do some things that make me cringe...)

When the Sox are winning, he typically makes it more fun.
When the Sox are losing, he typically makes it even worse.

The issue is on everyone's mind because the last 2 weeks have been so awful.

Would we be having this discussion if Vin Scully were the announcer for the past 20 years?

I can't staaaaaaaand Vin Sc.... zzzzzzzzzzzzz

doublem23
10-01-2012, 09:31 AM
Would we be having this discussion if Vin Scully were the announcer for the past 20 years?

Once people woke up from their Vin Scully enduced nap, probably

:twocents:

shingo10
10-01-2012, 09:37 AM
One guy who I thought had a really bright future broadcasting in the Sox family was BlackJack McDowell. His insights were awesome and he was never afraid to let his true opinions be known even when it went directly against the manager (Ozzie at the time) Maybe him and the Sox can mend fences and he can get back into it. He is very knowledgeable and would be a great addition next to Hawk. The two of them would be very passionate but very informative IMO.

russ99
10-01-2012, 09:55 AM
One guy who I thought had a really bright future broadcasting in the Sox family was BlackJack McDowell. His insights were awesome and he was never afraid to let his true opinions be known even when it went directly against the manager (Ozzie at the time) Maybe him and the Sox can mend fences and he can get back into it. He is very knowledgeable and would be a great addition next to Hawk. The two of them would be very passionate but very informative IMO.

I think Black Jack was only filling in on the west coast because he lived there and wasn't willing to travel. Not sure if he'd move his family and his other interests just to broadcast the Sox, even if it were a full-time gig.

doublem23
10-01-2012, 10:04 AM
I think Black Jack was only filling in on the west coast because he lived there and wasn't willing to travel. Not sure if he'd move his family and his other interests just to broadcast the Sox, even if it were a full-time gig.

That's kind of what I thought, too, although, a lot of people said the same thing about Robin when he was doing fill-in broadcasting for the Sox, too; that he was happy to help when convenient for him but wasn't interested in a full-time gig. Who knows?

kba
10-01-2012, 10:18 AM
Like, do you actually think there is this subgroup of Sox fans that want to go see the team live and in person, but don't because Hawk Harrelson and Ed Farmer are butchering the games on TV and the radio?

Of course not. The announcers aren't keeping established fans from buying tickets, but they're also not doing much to attract new fans to the team. Just like if you're an established Budweiser drinker, you're not going to stop drinking it because Anheuser-Bush is running annoying TV commercials. But bad ads won't attract new customers.

I would guess the Sox have done market research on their announcers, and I have no idea what it's found. But it's hard for me to imagine that either the TV or radio crews are increasing the fan base -- even when the team is playing well.

Martinigirl
10-01-2012, 10:20 AM
Like I said, I've defended Hawk for years. His behavior over the past two weeks has been pretty despicable. The dude had no business being on the air this weekend. He was unfit to broadcast.

Can I ask what he did? I didn't hear or see the games though I am sure I could guess. A lot of silence and overall pouting?

dwalteroo
10-01-2012, 10:30 AM
The deal with Hawk is simple: (and generally I like him, but he does do some things that make me cringe...)

When the Sox are winning, he typically makes it more fun.
When the Sox are losing, he typically makes it even worse.



This.

And you can't separate the two. When the Sox are winning I love him. When the Sox are losing I can't stand him.

I have no idea what they should do, but I don't like the thought of losing Steve Stone.

TaylorStSox
10-01-2012, 10:36 AM
Can I ask what he did? I didn't hear or see the games though I am sure I could guess. A lot of silence and overall pouting?

Somewhere between angry old cuss and petulant child.

jdm2662
10-01-2012, 10:37 AM
I think Black Jack was only filling in on the west coast because he lived there and wasn't willing to travel. Not sure if he'd move his family and his other interests just to broadcast the Sox, even if it were a full-time gig.

Yes, he was only doing fill in games when the Sox were on the west coast. Of course, he had a blog and wasn't 100% pro-White Sox or Hawk didn't care for his opinion. Since he went against the ol Hawk, "He will never work in the booth with me again." Those were Hawk's exact words.

jdm2662
10-01-2012, 10:44 AM
I'm more likely to see the team live and in person because Hawk and Farmer are butchering the games.

If we had a great broadcasting team I'd probably go to fewer games.

I guess since Harry sold the brand like none other, announcers are suposed to do the same. My father wasn't a huge baseball fan and the White Sox were pretty terrible in the 70s. Yet, my father would watch the White Sox games just to listen to Harry and Jimmy. I'm certainly not going to watch the Sox just to listen to Hawk, that's for sure. Hell, I barely can watch if the Sox are losing. He's that unbearable.

Hawk is nothing but a kiss ass and spokesperson for the chairman. That has what he has been for years. Not that it's the worst thing in the world. The chairman signs his paychecks. It sucks the Sox fell apart in the end. But, you still have a job to do.

tick53
10-01-2012, 11:08 AM
History has taught us that the Chairman isn't going to dump those who are loyal to him no matter how bad they are at their jobs so I believe with all sincerity that Mr Stone will be gone and Mr Harrelson will remain. As someone stated earlier, Hawk stifles Stoney and even when it comes to matters concerning pitching. Hawk seems to know more than his Cy Young Award winning counterpart. Hawk has turned Stone into nothing more than another boring analyst, a far cry from what he was with his days with the Cubs. Then he could almost perdict what was going to happen in the game before it happened. I was ecstatic when I heard that Stoney was coming to the South Side but it's typical that due to one know-it-all like Ken Harrelson, that we as fans could not benefit from the talents of Stone as the Cub fans did because noboby is allowed to be smarter than Hawk. I've been all for the retirement of Ken Harrelson for years now but I know that it will only happen when he's ready. If Stoney departs, all the club will do is give the job to someone else who's already in the organisation somewhere who hasn't got a clue like DJ and Farmer, who sucks too, by the way. They'll put some bore-ass like Mike Huff or a similar sort in with King Kenny unless maybe Wimpy can suck it in and put up with the Hillbilly Harrelson once again. After 50 years , I can honestly say that it becoming harder and harder to be a White Sox fan but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

tick53
10-01-2012, 11:12 AM
Would it be out of line to move Hawk to the radio broadcast?

The TV booth is named after Harrelson so that will never happen. Even if it wasn't, that would never happen. The Chairman is loyal to those who hump his leg and Hawk's been doing that for years.

KingXerxes
10-01-2012, 11:22 AM
Interesting article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444180004578016652376246198.html

Lip Man 1
10-01-2012, 11:33 AM
King:

I think there's a thread on this started last week...just FYI.

Lip

Nellie_Fox
10-01-2012, 11:35 AM
The TV booth is named after Harrelson so that will never happen. Even if it wasn't, that would never happen. The Chairman is loyal to those who hump his leg and Hawk's been doing that for years.
Because we all know that you are only intellectually honest if you disrespect your employer.

hawkjt
10-01-2012, 12:03 PM
The deal with Hawk is simple: (and generally I like him, but he does do some things that make me cringe...)

When the Sox are winning, he typically makes it more fun.
When the Sox are losing, he typically makes it even worse.

The issue is on everyone's mind because the last 2 weeks have been so awful.



I can't staaaaaaaand Vin Sc.... zzzzzzzzzzzzz


Nailed it. If the Sox were rolling to a division title right now...all good!

I like both Hawk and Stone,so would not like to see Stone leave.
This last two weeks have been so brutal, the good Lord himself in the booth could not make it fun.
I agree somewhat that Hawk might be getting a bit too old to handle the disappointment gracefully,and the last few broadcasts have seemed very,very quiet. But, being Sox fans,we feel the same,right?

SI1020
10-01-2012, 12:15 PM
Interesting article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444180004578016652376246198.html I want a biased announcer. I want a homer. Does everybody have to be a blow dried boring ESPN clone? Jack Brickhouse, Bob Prince, Harry Caray, Jack Buck, Chuck Thompson, even Ernie Harwell in his quiet subdued way were homers.

kba
10-01-2012, 12:41 PM
This last two weeks have been so brutal, the good Lord himself in the booth could not make it fun.

Nobody could have made the last two weeks fun, but a major-market announcer has to bring something to the broadcast other than silence and angry pouting.

What I would have liked to hear from the announcers the past couple weeks is some insight and analysis on what's gone wrong with the team. Are the players taking a different approach than they did earlier in the season? Are opposing pitchers doing something different? Is it mental? Did the team just run out of gas?

The announcers have unusual access to the players and coaches -- they fly on the team plane, they can get into the lockerroom and onto the field before games, and as ex-athletes themselves, they should have a lot of insider knowledge of the game. Yet I haven't heard much analysis from the announcers that goes beyond the obvious stuff that I can see myself.

mahagga73
10-01-2012, 12:58 PM
I like both Hawk and Stone for what they bring. I've grown up with Hawk's enthusiasm and Stone's overall knowledge during in-game situations. Sometimes though, Hawk debates or overrides Stone with what he knows and Stone seems to just go through the motions and do nothing but state the obvious. Whether it's ego, the travel or whatever I hope the Sox find a viable replacement.
I'm thinking Stone might be done with the Hawk. I have noticed what you are saying about Hawk muzzling Stone . He may be done with it. This might just be an excuse to get out.

mahagga73
10-01-2012, 01:02 PM
History has taught us that the Chairman isn't going to dump those who are loyal to him no matter how bad they are at their jobs so I believe with all sincerity that Mr Stone will be gone and Mr Harrelson will remain. As someone stated earlier, Hawk stifles Stoney and even when it comes to matters concerning pitching. Hawk seems to know more than his Cy Young Award winning counterpart. Hawk has turned Stone into nothing more than another boring analyst, a far cry from what he was with his days with the Cubs. Then he could almost perdict what was going to happen in the game before it happened. I was ecstatic when I heard that Stoney was coming to the South Side but it's typical that due to one know-it-all like Ken Harrelson, that we as fans could not benefit from the talents of Stone as the Cub fans did because noboby is allowed to be smarter than Hawk. I've been all for the retirement of Ken Harrelson for years now but I know that it will only happen when he's ready. If Stoney departs, all the club will do is give the job to someone else who's already in the organisation somewhere who hasn't got a clue like DJ and Farmer, who sucks too, by the way. They'll put some bore-ass like Mike Huff or a similar sort in with King Kenny unless maybe Wimpy can suck it in and put up with the Hillbilly Harrelson once again. After 50 years , I can honestly say that it becoming harder and harder to be a White Sox fan but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.
That's pretty spot on. Hawk has to own every conversation and Stone does not seem to even bother to refute or chime in with his expertise anymore. You can almost tell Stone is done with the Hawk. as far as the being a White Sox fan , we are all gluttons for punishment and are hooked no matter what happens.

Dibbs
10-01-2012, 01:06 PM
I am hoping Stone is out of the booth. I'm not saying Stone is the problem, but I think Hawk and Wimpy or Hawk and DJ is our best realistic bet. Hawk is going nowhere.

Like someone said a few posts up:

When things are going well, Hawk makes the game more enjoyable for me.
When things are going poorly, Hawk makes me even more upset.

Tragg
10-01-2012, 01:09 PM
In terms of marketing the team, Steve Stone is the worst thing to happen to the Sox in the past four years.

I'm surprised so many people are oblivious to this fact.

I'd take Hawk and DJ back in a heartbeat over Stone being in the booth. I don't think at this point that is the solution to the problem, but it's a statement to the fact that the Sox fanbase wants to listen homer announcers, either on the radio or tv side. Even John Rooney was a homer announcer. Steve Stone has gone out of his way to be as anti-homer and unenthusiastic about the Sox product as anyone possibly could, whether goofing on how bad the bobbleheads looked this year, to making fun of fans eating food in the stands when the tv cameras are on them, to refusing to show any enthusiasm after a big Sox hit or homer. Steve Stone hasn't sold a ticket to a Sox game since he joined the radio side in 2008.
Announcers can be homers to the point of being a negative on the marketing end. For one thing, the Sox play c. 25 games on WGN - that's the opportunity to develop a national fan base. Harrelson doesn't cut it. He's not lovable like Harry. A professional announcer would be better.
Rooney was first and foremost a PROFESSIONAL announcer. He was a homer in the sense of most baseball PBP people are homer...which is to say he was nothing like Harrelson. And if you bring Wimpy back with Hawk, it's Hawk to the 4th power.
I like Stone, but I see your point there.
I think the big problem is that there are really zero professional announcers on the Sox team (although I consider Stone one because he's done it for a long time and with many teams).

thomas35forever
10-01-2012, 01:26 PM
When I interned at WGN-TV in 2010, I heard that Hawk and Stoney had gone out to dinner exactly once since being teamed up. That number probably hasn't changed since then, so I can understand why Stoney would wanna get out of that booth sooner rather than later. Though frankly, I have to tip my cap to anybody who's able to stay in the same booth with Hawk for six months. It must be unbearable when the Sox are playing horribly as they have for the past two weeks. Put Stoney back on the radio, where he can really stand out as he did with Farmer in '08. I could care less what happens to DJ.

Domeshot17
10-01-2012, 01:57 PM
I can't stand Hawk anymore, I wish he would retire. He is just a shell of what he used to be. Every game with him calling it is the same:

(1) Open with sound board options 1 through 3
(2) Complain about Umps and talk about how he got screwed
(3) More Sound board statements
(4) Make sure once an inning to reference time spent playing, especially with former Red Sox greats
(5) More Sound board statements
(6) Remind everyone we got screwed on a bad call
(7) Sound board
(8) Sound board
(9) Leave for an extended bathroom break
(10) Complain about Umps more
(11) Sound board
(12) Make excuse for losing

Its just unwatchable, I don't get how anyone can enjoy it.

chisox12
10-01-2012, 02:57 PM
I can't stand Hawk anymore, I wish he would retire. He is just a shell of what he used to be.



Yep. Unfortunately he won't be going anywhere. Maybe I'll just get the extra innings package next season and listen to the opposing team's announcers. Wouldn't blame Stoney one bit if he decided he couldn't take working with Hawk anymore.

doublem23
10-01-2012, 03:08 PM
Yep. Unfortunately he won't be going anywhere. Maybe I'll just get the extra innings package next season and listen to the opposing team's announcers. Wouldn't blame Stoney one bit if he decided he couldn't take working with Hawk anymore.

I'm pretty sure they're blacked out in the local team's market

Nellie_Fox
10-01-2012, 03:26 PM
I'm pretty sure they're blacked out in the local team's marketYep, and unless it's changed since last year, Extra Innings doesn't give you a choice of feeds; you get the home team feed if available. You have to do MLB.tv Premium to have your choice of feeds, and they also black out the local market. When the Sox play the Twins, I have to watch the regular Twins coverage; my MLB.tv is blacked out.

fisk4ever
10-01-2012, 03:57 PM
Hawk has turned into a caricature. He is all shtick. Does he ever call a single play without the "can of corn", "we got a man there", "stretch" or "hang wiffem"? The addition of "It's all goood" to the cliche repertoire was the last straw. All repetition, all the time.

I wasn't prepared to like Stone, but found that I do like his insight, especially about pitching.

Homerism doesn't matter either way to me. Intelligent commentary does.

DeadMoney
10-01-2012, 04:00 PM
Hawk has turned into a caricature. He is all shtick. Does he ever call a single play without the "can of corn", "we got a man there", "stretch" or "hang wiffem"? The addition of "It's all goood" to the cliche repertoire was the last straw. All repetition, all the time.

I wasn't prepared to like Stone, but found that I do like his insight, especially about pitching.

Homerism doesn't matter either way to me. Intelligent commentary does.

I like Domeshot's take on it being like a soundboard majority of the game. Heck, you could probably replace Hawk with a soundboard (that has plenty of old, exaggerated - or made up - Red Sox stories) for a game and no one would know the difference.

TaylorStSox
10-01-2012, 04:04 PM
All these make me cringe...

Dreaded lead off walk.
What new?
Don't stop now boys.
Your what hurts?
Where was that pitch?
He may not be the best, but there's no one better.

salty99
10-01-2012, 04:15 PM
All these make me cringe...

Dreaded lead off walk.
What new?
Don't stop now boys.
Your what hurts?
Where was that pitch?
He may not be the best, but there's no one better.

Don't forget STRETCH!

DickAllen72
10-01-2012, 04:29 PM
Bad baseball = Bad broadcast
Harry and Jimmy managed to make White Sox broadcasts fun and entertaining even when the Sox were playing terrible baseball.

Hawk makes bad baseball unbearable.

KingXerxes
10-01-2012, 04:58 PM
I want a biased announcer. I want a homer. Does everybody have to be a blow dried boring ESPN clone? Jack Brickhouse, Bob Prince, Harry Caray, Jack Buck, Chuck Thompson, even Ernie Harwell in his quiet subdued way were homers.

Very true concerning Brickhouse, Prince and Caray - but I still respectfully disagree with your defense of Ken Harrelson.

While any play-by-play announcer is going to slant toward his team of employment, you act as if there are no degrees of "homerism". You would never have heard tirades out of these guys the way you do with Ken Harrelson. Sure they got excited when the Cubs/White Sox, Pirates or Cardinals/Browns/A's/White Sox/Cubs hit a 3-run homer to win a game, but you would never hear these guys incorporating themselves into the game ala Ken Harrelson. I don't think anybody can truly argue that Harrelson isn't the furthest degree of homerism anybody's ever seen out of a play-by-play announcer, but this is only my second biggest problem with Harrelson.

First and foremost, I don't think Ken Harrelson promotes the White Sox brand as much as he promotes the Ken Harrelson brand. Beat the Hawk (NBC local) and The Hawk Wants You! (White Sox Schedule) are just of couple of examples of what I'm talking about. This guy realized in the 1960's that "The Hawk" brand was a potential money maker for him, and he's gone down that road ever since (I'll do all the favor of not bringing up the Nehru Jackets or the Cowboy Attire). The problem now is the "Hawk" branding is obsolete at best, or beaten into the ground at worst. He just doesn't look good driving around in a mauve dune buggy anymore, and it all seemed so contrived to begin with. He pretty much admits this in his book from the 1960's.

Just my opinion.

Brian26
10-01-2012, 10:54 PM
Great exchange between Hawk and Stone in the 3rd inning:

:hawk
"Ask any GM, it's all about money now."

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/steve-stone-420-316.jpg?w=300
"I'll ask the Tampa Bay Rays."

:hawk
"Well, that's only because they have the best manager in baseball today."

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/steve-stone-420-316.jpg?w=300
"I think it has something to do with all of that homegrown starting pitching."

:hawk
"Well, how many years did they have to finish in last place to get that?"

LoveYourSuit
10-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Great exchange between Hawk and Stone in the 3rd inning


Ouch how awkward.

There was a moment where Hawk was rambling off all the good things abot our rookie pitching staff for about 2 minutes and Stone totally ingored him and countered about only two balls hit into the OF all game vs Santiago .


I think this marriage is over for sure.

Lip Man 1
10-01-2012, 11:43 PM
The thing is though both men make valid points in the exchange.

Lip

BainesHOF
10-01-2012, 11:56 PM
In many respects, this is the most important question facing Sox brass. If the announcers can be seen as part of the marketing arm of the team (which I believe), then in my opinion some of the blame on the attendance problems over the past decade can be traced to Harrelson. He is one of the biggest homers when it comes to announcers on in TV (from a recent poll), so you can draw a conclusion that he has not been successful in creating new fans, since the Sox have had attendance problems for years.

Fandom is not all created merely by wins and losses (as can be seen by the support of teams like the Cubs) but by latent and nurtured feelings about a team, what it stands for, its public perception, how it plays to a person's feelings and sense of belonging. Harrelson creates a feeling of persecution, made up of bad calls, bad luck, and incessant woe-is-me play by play. People tune it to baseball as a diversion and they don't want to hear all this negativity.

Bingo, especially the part about the negativity.

BainesHOF
10-02-2012, 12:31 AM
When the final out is called Wednesday, the Stone-Hawk partnership will be ovah.

They started out working pretty well together this season, but then for some reason things went downhill. It was obvious that at some point Stone complained to someone about Hawk calling him "Stone Pony" because both stopped using nicknames. I'm sure that aggravated the relationship as far as Hawk was concerned.

Then in the second half of the season I heard Stone twice disagree with Hawk by name during his Score appearances. Both times came when the team was on the road so Hawk had no chance of hearing it, but I'm sure that got back to Hawk.

I'm all for Stone leaving. His analysis has always been overrated in this town. Sure, compared to the clowns on the Score, Stone makes a lot of great points. But far too often he's a master of the obvious. Most of the ex-players on the MLB Network are far more insightful than Stone Pony.

One thing I think most people can agree on about Hawk is the guy is genuine. I don't think the same can be said of Stone. Stone has often been an ass toward fans. I saw it firsthand at Soxfest. Then he tries to follow Hawk's lead on broadcasts regarding a fondness for fans and it's incredibly hollow. Brian's right, too, about Stone never selling the product. He has no real enthusiam about the team and organization. It's been pretty obvious down the stretch that Stone knows he's not coming back. He's been giving Hawk some of his own medicine whether trying to get the last word in on a subject or making comments that have nothing to do with what Hawk said.

I'm tired of Hawk's negativity. There's no reason for the broadcasts to be filled with such tension. He's losing his marbles. This is the year he started to making bad mistakes on a regular basis due to age. And of course we all know that he lets his emotions get the best of him. I'm afraid that he's doing to have a Woody Hayes moment. I still like Hawk a lot, but it's time for him to retire for everyone's sake including his own.

I also like Farmer, but I'm tired of his "clever" sidetracking commentary. It's not Jackson's fault. He simply tries to roll with Farmer. The star of the radio broadcast should be the game, not constant D-list humor. Yeah, if the game is a laugher one way or the other then it's okay to get goofy, but Farmer doesn't ever stop with his quirky nonsense. I want to hear about what's happening on the field in the late innings of a close game not some bad, comedic exchanges. Plus I'm more than tired of jokes about Farmer's hits and Jackson's pitching appearance. It was funny the first 100 times, but now it's really stale.

It's time to clean house and present top-notch broadcasts on radio and TV that are worthy of a major market. I was listening to Pat Hughes the other day and it struck me as a revelation. As horrible as the Cubs are, Hughes conveyed a great deal of excitement, enthusiasm and description about the game. We could use a lot more of all those things in both booths.

slavko
10-02-2012, 09:26 AM
When the final out is called Wednesday, the Stone-Hawk partnership will be ovah.

They started out working pretty well together this season, but then for some reason things went downhill. It was obvious that at some point Stone complained to someone about Hawk calling him "Stone Pony" because both stopped using nicknames. I'm sure that aggravated the relationship as far as Hawk was concerned.

Then in the second half of the season I heard Stone twice disagree with Hawk by name during his Score appearances. Both times came when the team was on the road so Hawk had no chance of hearing it, but I'm sure that got back to Hawk.

I'm all for Stone leaving. His analysis has always been overrated in this town. Sure, compared to the clowns on the Score, Stone makes a lot of great points. But far too often he's a master of the obvious. Most of the ex-players on the MLB Network are far more insightful than Stone Pony.

One thing I think most people can agree on about Hawk is the guy is genuine. I don't think the same can be said of Stone. Stone has often been an ass toward fans. I saw it firsthand at Soxfest. Then he tries to follow Hawk's lead on broadcasts regarding a fondness for fans and it's incredibly hollow. Brian's right, too, about Stone never selling the product. He has no real enthusiam about the team and organization. It's been pretty obvious down the stretch that Stone knows he's not coming back. He's been giving Hawk some of his own medicine whether trying to get the last word in on a subject or making comments that have nothing to do with what Hawk said.

I'm tired of Hawk's negativity. There's no reason for the broadcasts to be filled with such tension. He's losing his marbles. This is the year he started to making bad mistakes on a regular basis due to age. And of course we all know that he lets his emotions get the best of him. I'm afraid that he's doing to have a Woody Hayes moment. I still like Hawk a lot, but it's time for him to retire for everyone's sake including his own.

I also like Farmer, but I'm tired of his "clever" sidetracking commentary. It's not Jackson's fault. He simply tries to roll with Farmer. The star of the radio broadcast should be the game, not constant D-list humor. Yeah, if the game is a laugher one way or the other then it's okay to get goofy, but Farmer doesn't ever stop with his quirky nonsense. I want to hear about what's happening on the field in the late innings of a close game not some bad, comedic exchanges. Plus I'm more than tired of jokes about Farmer's hits and Jackson's pitching appearance. It was funny the first 100 times, but now it's really stale.

It's time to clean house and present top-notch broadcasts on radio and TV that are worthy of a major market. I was listening to Pat Hughes the other day and it struck me as a revelation. As horrible as the Cubs are, Hughes conveyed a great deal of excitement, enthusiasm and description about the game. We could use a lot more of all those things in both booths.

That's pretty good. Seriously. Hawk's ovah the hill. Stone's not being used right, I usually have thought of his brilliant insights before he says them. The someone he complained to was probably Hawk himself. We need some pro's. Maybe we can get Gary Thorne back (yawn). Maybe Len Kasper will change sides (yawn). Still the right idea. Not likely to be able to sell the steak for a few years, sell the sizzle instead.

Maybe John McDonough will come to work here and do what he did for the Hawks and Cubs, which is to say, he fell into a situation where he couldn't fail and managed to not fail.

The only anybody who might sell some tickets and punch up the broadcasts is Willsy and he ain't coming back. I wish he would.

SOXSINCE'70
10-02-2012, 10:27 AM
All these make me cringe...

Dreaded lead off walk.
What new?
Don't stop now boys.
Your what hurts?
Where was that pitch?
He may not be the best, but there's no one better.

"Don't stop now,boys" makes me hurl objects at mt flat screen while screaming at hawk to shut up.

No one said being a Sox fan was going to be easy.

SOXSINCE'70
10-02-2012, 10:37 AM
Great exchange between Hawk and Stone in the 3rd inning:

:hawk
"Ask any GM, it's all about money now."

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/steve-stone-420-316.jpg?w=300
"I'll ask the Tampa Bay Rays."

:hawk
"Well, that's only because they have the best manager in baseball today."

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/steve-stone-420-316.jpg?w=300
"I think it has something to do with all of that homegrown starting pitching."

:hawk
"Well, how many years did they have to finish in last place to get that?"

Good points made by both.Where the hell was this all season??

KingXerxes
10-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Good points made by both.Where the hell was this all season??

I don't want to pick fly crap out of a pile of pepper, but would like to weigh in on this conversation.

Allow me to sum it up this way:
1. Harrelson contended money is the key to success in baseball.
2. Stone countered about Tampa Bay doing it without money.
3. Harrelson then explained this away by giving credit to Madden.
4. Stone said much of the credit belonged to their player development.
5. Harrelson contended the reason they got the players in the first place was due to all the high draft picks Tampa received for finishing last all the time (which - by implication - costs money).

OK - It would appear to me that Harrelson's initial point of money being the sole factor keeps changing as he's challenged. If the manager is to be credited (as he says in #3) then it isn't "all about money". His own response to Stone undermines his initial assertion. Then he further switches away from the "all about money" statement to contend that high draft choices come at a cost - and that cost is finishing last (I'm guessing here this was Harrelson's point).

Stone stayed on point by twice pointing out that "it isn't all about money", but Harrelson wavers off that point considerably, even intrducing elements into his argument which contradict his initial blanket generalization.

For the record - The Tampa Bay Rays finished last from 1998 through 2007 with the exception of 2004 when they finished fourth. The only starting pitcher, however, which Tampa Bay gained from the last place finishes was David Price who was the first overall pick in the 2007 draft. Shields was a 16th round amateur draft pick, Moore was an 8th round amateur draft pick, Cobb was a 4th round amateur draft pick and Hellickson was a 4th round amateur draft pick. The point being that, other than David Price, all of these other pitchers were available to all teams before Tampa Bay drafted them, and were not the result of Tampa Bay finishing in the cellar.

Stone wins.

shingo10
10-02-2012, 02:19 PM
I don't want to pick fly crap out of a pile of pepper, but would like to weigh in on this conversation.

Allow me to sum it up this way:
1. Harrelson contended money is the key to success in baseball.
2. Stone countered about Tampa Bay doing it without money.
3. Harrelson then explained this away by giving credit to Madden.
4. Stone said much of the credit belonged to their player development.
5. Harrelson contended the reason they got the players in the first place was due to all the high draft picks Tampa received for finishing last all the time (which - by implication - costs money).

OK - It would appear to me that Harrelson's initial point of money being the sole factor keeps changing as he's challenged. If the manager is to be credited (as he says in #3) then it isn't "all about money". His own response to Stone undermines his initial assertion. Then he further switches away from the "all about money" statement to contend that high draft choices come at a cost - and that cost is finishing last (I'm guessing here this was Harrelson's point).

Stone stayed on point by twice pointing out that "it isn't all about money", but Harrelson wavers off that point considerably, even intrducing elements into his argument which contradict his initial blanket generalization.

For the record - The Tampa Bay Rays finished last from 1998 through 2007 with the exception of 2004 when they finished fourth. The only starting pitcher, however, which Tampa Bay gained from the last place finishes was David Price who was the first overall pick in the 2007 draft. Shields was a 16th round amateur draft pick, Moore was an 8th round amateur draft pick, Cobb was a 4th round amateur draft pick and Hellickson was a 4th round amateur draft pick. The point being that, other than David Price, all of these other pitchers were available to all teams before Tampa Bay drafted them, and were not the result of Tampa Bay finishing in the cellar.

Stone wins.

Hawk is saying that its all about money and if you do it without money you either have a great manager or have spent many years being terrible acquiring top picks.

Stone is being his smug arrogant self. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out buddy...

TaylorStSox
10-02-2012, 02:33 PM
Hawk is saying that its all about money and if you do it without money you either have a great manager or have spent many years being terrible acquiring top picks.

Stone is being his smug arrogant self. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out buddy...

So basically Hawk's argument is wrong and inconsistent?

KingXerxes
10-02-2012, 03:10 PM
"Hawk is saying that it's all about money and if you do it without money you either have a great manager or have spent many years being terrible acquiring top picks."

Hawk's initial proclamation was "It's all about money." and he only started lengthening the point of his statement when he was challenged on it.

If Stone had simply said, "Yep!", I sincerely doubt Harrelson would have continued with other ways in which to be successful in baseball.

Also - If Harrelson had made a statement like the one you attribute to him in the quote above, it would be a great statement of the obvious and still wouldn't account for making good draft picks and/or developing those draft picks.

Chez
10-02-2012, 03:34 PM
Bingo, especially the part about the negativity.

And yet the two most negative, critical broadcasters I've ever heard (and it's not even close) were Jimmy and Harry. And people fall all over themselves to say how great they were.

Nellie_Fox
10-02-2012, 03:47 PM
And yet the two most negative, critical broadcasters I've ever heard (and it's not even close) were Jimmy and Harry. And people fall all over themselves to say how great they were.Yeah, Harry became such a house shill when he went to the north side that people forget (or never knew) how much he ripped on the Sox from the booth, his voice often dripping with sarcasm. Was it Jay Johnstone that Harry refused to announce his batting average because it was too low, and Harry would bring it up pretty much every game? "I'm not going to say his batting average until he gets it up over .XXX (whatever the line was)." "That wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth." And Jimmy, with his "you young ballplayers out there, make sure you don't do it the way so-and-so does, the right way to do it is..."

KingXerxes
10-02-2012, 03:47 PM
And yet the two most negative, critical broadcasters I've ever heard (and it's not even close) were Jimmy and Harry. And people fall all over themselves to say how great they were.

Piersall and Caray had a certain endearing quality about them - kind of like your favorite uncle when he's drunk and arguing with your aunt about the right lead in a game of Pinochle.

Harrelson has the quality of that "know it all" two houses down who comes out to tell you you're not watering your lawn correctly.

Nellie_Fox
10-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Piersall and Caray had a certain endearing quality about them - kind of like your favorite uncle when he's drunk and arguing with your aunt about the right lead in a game of Pinochle.

Harrelson has the quality of that "know it all" two houses down who comes out to tell you you're not watering your lawn correctly.Oh, please. Piersall was a huge know-it-all.

KingXerxes
10-02-2012, 03:54 PM
Agreed - But he was viewed as the aunt who could never lead the right card. He would never shut up, he would never stop criticizing, yet it was endearing.

There is nothing in Harrelson's delivery even remotely pointing in the direction of lighthearted or humorous. Just the billowing of a guy who has no sense of the fact that he's delivering an entertainment product.

Nellie_Fox
10-02-2012, 04:03 PM
Agreed - But he was viewed as the aunt who could never lead the right card. He would never shut up, he would never stop criticizing, yet it was endearing.

There is nothing in Harrelson's delivery even remotely pointing in the direction of lighthearted or humorous. Just the billowing of a guy who has no sense of the fact that he's delivering an entertainment product.Definite example of "eye of the beholder" then, because I never found Jimmy "endearing."

slavko
10-02-2012, 04:10 PM
Hawk is saying that its all about money and if you do it without money you either have a great manager or have spent many years being terrible acquiring top picks.

Stone is being his smug arrogant self. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out buddy...

But what if the smug, arrogant self is right, as Xerxes has just proven to us? (Ya know, the fact that only one of the pitchers was a top pick.)

KingXerxes
10-02-2012, 04:26 PM
Definite example of "eye of the beholder" then, because I never found Jimmy "endearing."

I'm fine with that Nellie, but have to ask you if you found the Caray/Piersall broadcasts to be more fun than the Harrelson/Stone or Farmer/Jackson broadcasts.

This is about having fun after all.

Noneck
10-02-2012, 04:53 PM
Definite example of "eye of the beholder" then, because I never found Jimmy "endearing."


I never found Jimmy to be endearing either but had compassion for him because of his past, his on going problems and could overlook his arrogance. Harrelsons I can not.

Golden Sox
10-02-2012, 04:59 PM
Nellie: Harry Caray wouldn't announce Jay Johnstones BA when he was with the Sox, but he called Johnstone "The Old Pro" when Johnstone was with the Cubs and Harry became a houseman for the Cubs.

Lip Man 1
10-02-2012, 05:56 PM
Jimmy absolutely knew the game and how it should be played. He retired with one of the best defensive percentages in history.

His style might have been grating but he knew the game to the nth degree.

He and Harry were a terrific tandem.

Lip

russ99
10-02-2012, 06:18 PM
Yeah, Harry became such a house shill when he went to the north side that people forget (or never knew) how much he ripped on the Sox from the booth, his voice often dripping with sarcasm. Was it Jay Johnstone that Harry refused to announce his batting average because it was too low, and Harry would bring it up pretty much every game? "I'm not going to say his batting average until he gets it up over .XXX (whatever the line was)." "That wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth." And Jimmy, with his "you young ballplayers out there, make sure you don't do it the way so-and-so does, the right way to do it is..."

My admittedly young (at the time) and naive perspective on Harry and Jimmy was that they were on the fans side, and wouldn't put up with guff from both the players and management's end. I ate it up. Harry was like your jolly drunk uncle and Jimmy was like your squirrely uncle mad at the world today.

kba
10-02-2012, 08:14 PM
And yet the two most negative, critical broadcasters I've ever heard (and it's not even close) were Jimmy and Harry. And people fall all over themselves to say how great they were.

It's true that Harry and Jimmy could be brutal in their criticism of players and umpires. But it was never long before Harry was back to singing along with Nancy, pointing out pretty girls in the crowd, and reminding us, "You can't beat fun at the old ballpark." (In other words, doing things that sold tickets.)

Hawk can sound angry and bitter for nine innings and leave you feeling like there's nothing at all fun about baseball.

shingo10
10-02-2012, 08:48 PM
But what if the smug, arrogant self is right, as Xerxes has just proven to us? (Ya know, the fact that only one of the pitchers was a top pick.)


Then he'll still be gone at the end of year.

mahagga73
10-02-2012, 09:20 PM
When the final out is called Wednesday, the Stone-Hawk partnership will be ovah.

They started out working pretty well together this season, but then for some reason things went downhill. It was obvious that at some point Stone complained to someone about Hawk calling him "Stone Pony" because both stopped using nicknames. I'm sure that aggravated the relationship as far as Hawk was concerned.

Then in the second half of the season I heard Stone twice disagree with Hawk by name during his Score appearances. Both times came when the team was on the road so Hawk had no chance of hearing it, but I'm sure that got back to Hawk.

I'm all for Stone leaving. His analysis has always been overrated in this town. Sure, compared to the clowns on the Score, Stone makes a lot of great points. But far too often he's a master of the obvious. Most of the ex-players on the MLB Network are far more insightful than Stone Pony.

One thing I think most people can agree on about Hawk is the guy is genuine. I don't think the same can be said of Stone. Stone has often been an ass toward fans. I saw it firsthand at Soxfest. Then he tries to follow Hawk's lead on broadcasts regarding a fondness for fans and it's incredibly hollow. Brian's right, too, about Stone never selling the product. He has no real enthusiam about the team and organization. It's been pretty obvious down the stretch that Stone knows he's not coming back. He's been giving Hawk some of his own medicine whether trying to get the last word in on a subject or making comments that have nothing to do with what Hawk said.

I'm tired of Hawk's negativity. There's no reason for the broadcasts to be filled with such tension. He's losing his marbles. This is the year he started to making bad mistakes on a regular basis due to age. And of course we all know that he lets his emotions get the best of him. I'm afraid that he's doing to have a Woody Hayes moment. I still like Hawk a lot, but it's time for him to retire for everyone's sake including his own.

I also like Farmer, but I'm tired of his "clever" sidetracking commentary. It's not Jackson's fault. He simply tries to roll with Farmer. The star of the radio broadcast should be the game, not constant D-list humor. Yeah, if the game is a laugher one way or the other then it's okay to get goofy, but Farmer doesn't ever stop with his quirky nonsense. I want to hear about what's happening on the field in the late innings of a close game not some bad, comedic exchanges. Plus I'm more than tired of jokes about Farmer's hits and Jackson's pitching appearance. It was funny the first 100 times, but now it's really stale.

It's time to clean house and present top-notch broadcasts on radio and TV that are worthy of a major market. I was listening to Pat Hughes the other day and it struck me as a revelation. As horrible as the Cubs are, Hughes conveyed a great deal of excitement, enthusiasm and description about the game. We could use a lot more of all those things in both booths.
Man, how refreshing, someone who doesn't think Stone invented baseball . I think he is pretty good at what he does, but if he is gone I will not miss him. This worship of him as some kind of genius cracks me up.

SI1020
10-02-2012, 09:37 PM
It's true that Harry and Jimmy could be brutal in their criticism of players and umpires. But it was never long before Harry was back to singing along with Nancy, pointing out pretty girls in the crowd, and reminding us, "You can't beat fun at the old ballpark." (In other words, doing things that sold tickets.)

Hawk can sound angry and bitter for nine innings and leave you feeling like there's nothing at all fun about baseball. I really wanted to comment about the Harry/Jimmy era because despite the mostly lousy baseball I spent a lot of time at the ball park or listening to those two. Jimmy Pearsall like Hawk, has a mean streak, albeit a different kind. Harry and Jimmy were like fans, but very knowledgeable fans. They might not have always sold the team, but they always sold the experience of the game. Both flawed men, they were a great broadcast team, and the Sox owed them big time for holding fan interest when the product on the field was mostly bad.

Viva Medias B's
10-02-2012, 09:41 PM
Keep Stone. Allow Hawk to retire. Bring Willsy up from Tampa Bay?

Lip Man 1
10-02-2012, 09:55 PM
Viva:

Dave's not coming back.

Lip

SI1020
10-02-2012, 09:55 PM
When the final out is called Wednesday, the Stone-Hawk partnership will be ovah.

They started out working pretty well together this season, but then for some reason things went downhill. It was obvious that at some point Stone complained to someone about Hawk calling him "Stone Pony" because both stopped using nicknames. I'm sure that aggravated the relationship as far as Hawk was concerned.

Then in the second half of the season I heard Stone twice disagree with Hawk by name during his Score appearances. Both times came when the team was on the road so Hawk had no chance of hearing it, but I'm sure that got back to Hawk.

I'm all for Stone leaving. His analysis has always been overrated in this town. Sure, compared to the clowns on the Score, Stone makes a lot of great points. But far too often he's a master of the obvious. Most of the ex-players on the MLB Network are far more insightful than Stone Pony.

One thing I think most people can agree on about Hawk is the guy is genuine. I don't think the same can be said of Stone. Stone has often been an ass toward fans. I saw it firsthand at Soxfest. Then he tries to follow Hawk's lead on broadcasts regarding a fondness for fans and it's incredibly hollow. Brian's right, too, about Stone never selling the product. He has no real enthusiam about the team and organization. It's been pretty obvious down the stretch that Stone knows he's not coming back. He's been giving Hawk some of his own medicine whether trying to get the last word in on a subject or making comments that have nothing to do with what Hawk said.

I'm tired of Hawk's negativity. There's no reason for the broadcasts to be filled with such tension. He's losing his marbles. This is the year he started to making bad mistakes on a regular basis due to age. And of course we all know that he lets his emotions get the best of him. I'm afraid that he's doing to have a Woody Hayes moment. I still like Hawk a lot, but it's time for him to retire for everyone's sake including his own.

I also like Farmer, but I'm tired of his "clever" sidetracking commentary. It's not Jackson's fault. He simply tries to roll with Farmer. The star of the radio broadcast should be the game, not constant D-list humor. Yeah, if the game is a laugher one way or the other then it's okay to get goofy, but Farmer doesn't ever stop with his quirky nonsense. I want to hear about what's happening on the field in the late innings of a close game not some bad, comedic exchanges. Plus I'm more than tired of jokes about Farmer's hits and Jackson's pitching appearance. It was funny the first 100 times, but now it's really stale.

It's time to clean house and present top-notch broadcasts on radio and TV that are worthy of a major market. I was listening to Pat Hughes the other day and it struck me as a revelation. As horrible as the Cubs are, Hughes conveyed a great deal of excitement, enthusiasm and description about the game. We could use a lot more of all those things in both booths. Good post. I've been a fan of Hawk, despite knowing full well his personality and broadcast flaws. I have made known my disdain for the modern day blow dried broadcaster, making me perhaps more loyal to Hawk than I should have been. He is now way too predictably cliched and his penchant for wanting his sidekick to be a lackey has become ever so tiresome. I have always admired Stone for his knowledge of the game, but the criticisms here and previously by Brian are well taken. Changes are definitely in order.

Nellie_Fox
10-02-2012, 11:54 PM
I'm fine with that Nellie, but have to ask you if you found the Caray/Piersall broadcasts to be more fun than the Harrelson/Stone or Farmer/Jackson broadcasts.

This is about having fun after all.I think everyone is filtering Harry and Jimmy through the mists of time. And they were only together for, what, four or five years? Harry for ten or eleven? If they had hung around as long as Hawk, a lot of people would have been tired of them too. How many times did you have to hear Harry plugging some restaurant or bar he frequented in order to continue getting comped in all these places while not paying any attention to the play on the field? And slamming back the "ice-cold Falstaffs" until he was slurring his words by late in the game? With Harry, it was much more about the "Mayor of Rush Street" stuff than it was about the White Sox.

Yeah, I enjoyed aspects of it, but a lot of the bitching about Hawk has been about wanting a "professional announcer." Harry and Jimmy were a lot of things, but a focused on the game, professional duo they weren't.

Tragg
10-02-2012, 11:57 PM
Keep Stone. Allow Hawk to retire. Bring Willsy up from Tampa Bay?

Like

SI1020
10-03-2012, 08:36 AM
I think everyone is filtering Harry and Jimmy through the mists of time. And they were only together for, what, four or five years? Harry for ten or eleven? If they had hung around as long as Hawk, a lot of people would have been tired of them too. How many times did you have to hear Harry plugging some restaurant or bar he frequented in order to continue getting comped in all these places while not paying any attention to the play on the field? And slamming back the "ice-cold Falstaffs" until he was slurring his words by late in the game? With Harry, it was much more about the "Mayor of Rush Street" stuff than it was about the White Sox.

Yeah, I enjoyed aspects of it, but a lot of the bitching about Hawk has been about wanting a "professional announcer." Harry and Jimmy were a lot of things, but a focused on the game, professional duo they weren't. Maybe the "mists of time" have affected us in different ways. First of all times have changed, many things Harry said on the air like "plugging a restaurant" would be unacceptable today. Announcers were more free to be independent and show some personality on the air. Today announcers like Ian Eagle are the standard of excellence. Second Harry's drinking was the stuff of legend, spawning many rumors about his personal life. This went back all the way to his St. Louis days, in fact one of those rumors concerned why he left the Cardinals in the first place. Despite it all Harry was one of the best baseball announcers I ever heard. He did all the things an announcer should do and more. You knew the count, the score, the game situation and interesting anecdotes as they pertained to the action. Whatever his alcohol consumption in the booth or the bleachers he still kept up with the game. When Harry went to the north side they tamed the beast within him and then he had a stroke in 1987. It was all downhill after that. FWIW my three favorite baseball announcers of all time are in order, Mel Allen, Harry Caray and Bob Prince. I wish I could turn on my TV or radio and hear those guys do it one more time. The modern day guys and gals are so woeful.

DeadMoney
10-03-2012, 08:36 AM
Like

I think we'd all like that... Unfortunately, I get the sense - from what others have said here - that he's pretty damn comfortable right where he is and/or JR has something against him.

SI1020
10-03-2012, 08:41 AM
I'd like Dave Wills too. I don't dislike every single announcer today and Wills does call a good game and bring some personality to a broadcast. It just ain't happening.

harwar
10-03-2012, 08:46 AM
Keep Stone. Allow Hawk to retire. Bring Willsy up from Tampa Bay?


i said the same thing a few days ago .. Hawk isn't going anywhere .. Dave Wills has a great setup in florida .. as for Stone, i hope he stays but he and Hawk have to do couples counseling or something, since it's really seems that they can barely stand each other .. also, since he has a contract through 2014 (with option on 2015) i don't see how he can just leave if he wants to ..

SOXSINCE'70
10-03-2012, 09:49 AM
Jimmy absolutely knew the game and how it should be played. He retired with one of the best defensive percentages in history.

His style might have been grating but he knew the game to the nth degree.

He and Harry were a terrific tandem.

Lip

Agreed.My favorite Harry/Jimmy moments:

1. Any time Jimmy had to say "Pulaski".He always pronounced it "Pu-laski".:D:

2. Any live "Chicken Unlimited" read Jimmy did on air.If you listened closely,you could hear Harry wolfing down an order of wings. :gulp:

mahagga73
10-03-2012, 09:58 AM
I was skeptical about how bad the divide between the two was till you guys brought it up on this thread. I watched the game last night, and since I was paying attention could feel the tension and awkwardness between the two , it is worse than I thought.

wassagstdu
10-03-2012, 11:07 AM
I remember listening to Harry Caray broadcasting from St Louis when I was in college at UI and being blown away by how good he was. Years later with the Sox he was godawful and impossible to listen to, especially when he droned on and on about what group or family was at the game. I also listened to Prince when I lived in central PA near the end of his career, and he was terrible, constantly moaning about the decline of the Pirates. (Of course that decline proved permanent -- a caution to those of us who favor rebuilding the Sox). In fact Prince sounded a lot like Hawk this year. I have been a big fan of Hawk and won't listen to any other broadcast of a Sox game, but this year he has become a cardboard caricature of himself, and I think his time is up. I like Stone a lot and hope he is the one who stays.

Nellie_Fox
10-03-2012, 11:18 AM
...also, since he has a contract through 2014 (with option on 2015) i don't see how he can just leave if he wants to ..All a contract does is prevent him from going to work for someone else during that time. It does not prevent him from just retiring.

hawkjt
10-03-2012, 11:51 AM
I was skeptical about how bad the divide between the two was till you guys brought it up on this thread. I watched the game last night, and since I was paying attention could feel the tension and awkwardness between the two , it is worse than I thought.


I agree. I listened with an ear toward picking up tension last nite,and it was very apparent that this marriage is over. Hawk would make a comment about miggy and dead silence. Stone only spoke when he had to with action on the field. It was the worst dynamic between two that I have ever heard....its ovah!

I have defended Hawk thru the years,but I am about ready for a change.
Stone is ok,but if this is going to be the atmosphere,something has to give.

SI1020
10-03-2012, 12:45 PM
I also listened to Prince when I lived in central PA near the end of his career, and he was terrible, constantly moaning about the decline of the Pirates. (Of course that decline proved permanent -- a caution to those of us who favor rebuilding the Sox). Bob Prince was fired after the 1975 season. The Pirates had just won their 5th division title in 6 years, including a WS in 1971. They had a fearsome lineup and were not perceived in any way to be in decline. Pittsburgh continued to have winning seasons until 1983, except for the strike shortened year of 1981, including another WS win in 1979, piloted by Chuck Tanner. Prince could show a prickly personality and frequently clashed with Westinghouse Broadcasting management, which resulted in his ultimate dismissal. The decision was met with near universal scorn by fans in SW PA. Also Prince unlike Hawk was able to get along with his co announcers despite having that alpha personality. He did very well with both Jim Woods and Nellie King for example. Prince was called upon to announce some Penguin games on TV after leaving the Pirates. He was truly awful as a hockey announcer, calling the puck the ball and being totally unable to keep up with the swift tempo of a hockey game. He worked briefly for the Astros and it didn't work out for him. All of his little Pittsburghisms did not work in Texas. His schtick didn't work out well on Monday Night Baseball either. Prince died in 1985 of cancer. On May 3 of that year, despite the fact that he was weak and dying he announced two innings of a Pirates game in which they managed to score 9 runs, one for each year of his absence. The Pirates lost 104 games that year and were clearly in decline. The late Mayor Richard Caliguiri managed to put together a consortium that bought the team and kept them in Pittsburgh. Jim Leyland came aboard in 1986 and they were big winners again in the early 90's. So there it is. I have no idea where you are coming from.

slavko
10-03-2012, 01:40 PM
I remember listening to Harry Caray broadcasting from St Louis when I was in college at UI and being blown away by how good he was. Years later with the Sox he was godawful and impossible to listen to, especially when he droned on and on about what group or family was at the game. I also listened to Prince when I lived in central PA near the end of his career, and he was terrible, constantly moaning about the decline of the Pirates. (Of course that decline proved permanent -- a caution to those of us who favor rebuilding the Sox). In fact Prince sounded a lot like Hawk this year. I have been a big fan of Hawk and won't listen to any other broadcast of a Sox game, but this year he has become a cardboard caricature of himself, and I think his time is up. I like Stone a lot and hope he is the one who stays.

When one achieves Beloved status, it doesn't matter how bad you are. I remember with fondness those family callouts with fractured pronunciations. "The Gingivitis family is here from PEE-otone!" "The Pterodactyl group says hello from Os-WHEE-go!"

Hawk's a tired caricature, you're right. And he hasn't achieved universal Beloved status.

WhiteSox5187
10-03-2012, 05:13 PM
I agree. I listened with an ear toward picking up tension last nite,and it was very apparent that this marriage is over. Hawk would make a comment about miggy and dead silence. Stone only spoke when he had to with action on the field. It was the worst dynamic between two that I have ever heard....its ovah!

I have defended Hawk thru the years,but I am about ready for a change.
Stone is ok,but if this is going to be the atmosphere,something has to give.

What is strange about this is that prior to September I thought Hawk and Stone's chemistry had never been better. Once the Sox started to slide in September though it became tense again as there were long, long, LONG silences by Hawk. He took this September very hard and while every fan did, we aren't being paid by the team to broadcast games.

Mohoney
10-03-2012, 08:39 PM
In the back of my mind, I still remember the series from Oakland in 2003 when Rooney went over to the tv side and teamed with DJ. Hawk was out for some reason. It was a great series. Unfortunately, I think DJ's been relegated to the goofy sidekick role with Hawk and Farmer for the past 13 years. If he was ever teamed up with a real announcer, he'd probably be able to shine.

I remember DJ being pretty good on Fox broadcasts without Hawk's nonsense dragging him down.

SI1020
10-03-2012, 08:43 PM
What is strange about this is that prior to September I thought Hawk and Stone's chemistry had never been better. Once the Sox started to slide in September though it became tense again as there were long, long, LONG silences by Hawk. He took this September very hard and while every fan did, we aren't being paid by the team to broadcast games. I thought the same thing.

roylestillman
10-03-2012, 09:02 PM
Anybody catch Stone 's final remark. "...you learn some lessons and one thing you learn is that the clock is ticking and you have to enjoy what you do." If that wasn't a good bye, I don't know what it is.

tsoxman
10-03-2012, 09:02 PM
Steve Stones last line form the broadcast....'One of the lessons from this season is that the clock is ticking...You have to enjoy what you do"...

Sounds like a good bye to me.

harwar
10-03-2012, 09:12 PM
Well, if he does leave,i for one,will miss him ..

ChiSoxGal85
10-03-2012, 09:12 PM
Anybody catch Stone 's final remark. "...you learn some lessons and one thing you learn is that the clock is ticking and you have to enjoy what you do." If that wasn't a good bye, I don't know what it is.
Yeah, heard that, as well as the somewhat awkward brief silence from Hawk after Stone said that. I suspect you're right.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2012, 09:56 PM
From Gonzo's postgame notes tonight: "Sox television announcer Steve Stone, who is in the midst of a multi-year contract, is expected to receive interest from other media outlets but would need permission to get out of his current pact."

Lip

Noneck
10-03-2012, 09:58 PM
Steve Stones last line form the broadcast....'One of the lessons from this season is that the clock is ticking...You have to enjoy what you do"...

Sounds like a good bye to me.


Yea I thought the same.

harwar
10-03-2012, 10:08 PM
Anybody catch Stone 's final remark. "...you learn some lessons and one thing you learn is that the clock is ticking and you have to enjoy what you do." If that wasn't a good bye, I don't know what it is.


Yea, i missed it the first time but i just went back and listened and that i definitely a farewell ..

ChiSoxGal85
10-04-2012, 09:49 AM
Stone is on the Score right now talking about all this.

jdm2662
10-04-2012, 09:59 AM
Stone is on the Score right now talking about all this.

Thanks for the heads up. I tuned in for a bit. Wish I would've heard the entire segement.

hawkjt
10-04-2012, 10:15 AM
I heard the entire inteview on Mac and Spiegs, with Stone. He was pretty honest,admitting that when the Sox lose, ''Hawk gets very grumpy''....and that it is a challenge to work around the roller coaster of a booth produced by the ups and downs of a Sox season.

He said he expects to be back,but clearly was hesitant to guarantee it.
I think if he is offered the D-Backs gig, he would take it. He reiterated that Reinsdorf is the best owner he could ever work for,and no doubt is loyal,but I am sure Jerry would release him if he asked.

He did say that at times when he has a different opinion on baseball,Hawk feels it is a challenge to his own expertise,and instead of just two perspectives on an issue, it becomes a bit of a tug of war...Hawk needs to be validated,always.

I suspect we have seen the last of Stoney with Hawk.

jdm2662
10-04-2012, 10:58 AM
I heard the entire inteview on Mac and Spiegs, with Stone. He was pretty honest,admitting that when the Sox lose, ''Hawk gets very grumpy''....and that it is a challenge to work around the roller coaster of a booth produced by the ups and downs of a Sox season.

He said he expects to be back,but clearly was hesitant to guarantee it.
I think if he is offered the D-Backs gig, he would take it. He reiterated that Reinsdorf is the best owner he could ever work for,and no doubt is loyal,but I am sure Jerry would release him if he asked.

He did say that at times when he has a different opinion on baseball,Hawk feels it is a challenge to his own expertise,and instead of just two perspectives on an issue, it becomes a bit of a tug of war...Hawk needs to be validated,always.

I suspect we have seen the last of Stoney with Hawk.

This is the most telling of Hawk, and it's been obvious for a while. Stone did mention when he worked with Harry (pre-stroke of course), Harry was fine with disagreements. If everyone agreed, it was a boring broadcast.

harwar
10-04-2012, 11:39 AM
Stone is on the Score right now talking about all this.

man o manischewitz .. i haven't listend to the score in so long outside of the ballgame's themselves, but i sure would have liked to have heard that .. i hope i can find it on their website ..

Over By There
10-04-2012, 11:59 AM
I don't see how the Sox can bring them back together next year at this point. Ideally, I'd like to see a clean sweep, even though I've traditionally been a Hawk supporter. Stone hasn't done much for me, but perhaps he has pretty much stopped trying. If Stone could come back with a professional PBP guy, I think that would be interesting, but since it seems we will have Hawk for a few more years, I guess that's out.

Is there any chance in hell that Wimpy would come back to the booth for a full schedule? Maybe it wouldn't work over a full 162 games, but those were Hawk's best games this year.

Foulke You
10-04-2012, 12:52 PM
Is there any chance in hell that Wimpy would come back to the booth for a full schedule? Maybe it wouldn't work over a full 162 games, but those were Hawk's best games this year.
By far Hawk's best games were with Wimpy. I think Hawk and Stone just aren't the right match for each other chemistry wise. They both have big egos, they both like to talk a lot, and one is a "homer" announcer while the other calls more of a neutral game. They just don't mesh well. Wimpy on the other hand compliments Hawk's style better. He doesn't need to talk as much as Stone and his analysis seems more complimentary of Hawk's style. The two of them have great chemistry (always have) and they seem to genuinely have a lot of fun calling the games together which makes for a much more enjoyable broadcast. I'd love it if they brought Wimperoo back full time. The question is whether he would want to come out of retirement for the 162 game grind.

bunkaroo
10-04-2012, 01:01 PM
Is there any chance in hell that Wimpy would come back to the booth for a full schedule? Maybe it wouldn't work over a full 162 games, but those were Hawk's best games this year.

Wasn't one of those games the "WEGNER!" game?

hawkjt
10-04-2012, 01:11 PM
One reason that the Wimpy games were so good this year? Sox were 6-1 in those games. That makes Hawk happy and Sox fans happy,so Wimpy gets some love.

I like Wimpy but he did not really analyze this year,just agreed with Hawk on Hawks opinions,mainly. Ok for a fill-in,but for a full season,Wimpy would have to really re-tool his act and do some real homework.

Dan Bernstein,who loves to mock Hawk, says today that his sources say that Stone would like to return,but only with a different play by play partner.....not gonna happen.

Tragg
10-04-2012, 01:12 PM
He did say that at times when he has a different opinion on baseball,Hawk feels it is a challenge to his own expertise,and instead of just two perspectives on an issue, it becomes a bit of a tug of war...Hawk needs to be validated,always.

I suspect we have seen the last of Stoney with Hawk.
Another reason why Hawk should be gone.

And hawk and wimpy is just an amplification of Hawk.

I hope the Sox take professional direction.

Nellie_Fox
10-04-2012, 01:19 PM
Hawk will be in the booth as long as Hawk wants to be in the booth. Get used to it.

soxtalker
10-04-2012, 01:26 PM
One reason that the Wimpy games were so good this year? Sox were 6-1 in those games. That makes Hawk happy and Sox fans happy,so Wimpy gets some love.

I like Wimpy but he did not really analyze this year,just agreed with Hawk on Hawks opinions,mainly. Ok for a fill-in,but for a full season,Wimpy would have to really re-tool his act and do some real homework.

Dan Bernstein,who loves to mock Hawk, says today that his sources say that Stone would like to return,but only with a different play by play partner.....not gonna happen.

Is it possible that Hawk could try a part-time arrangement (e.g., with Wimpy) to ease into retirement?

Nellie_Fox
10-04-2012, 01:35 PM
Is it possible that Hawk could try a part-time arrangement (e.g., with Wimpy) to ease into retirement?He recently said he has no interest in retiring. He's not going anywhere, no matter how many scenarios you guys come up with.

WhiteSox5187
10-04-2012, 01:36 PM
He recently said he has no interest in retiring. He's not going anywhere, no matter how many scenarios you guys come up with.

That is too bad because his performance in September certainly sounded like a guy who was ready to quit. I mentioned this earlier but I thought that earlier in the year Hawk and Stone had never sounded better but then that series with the Royals came and Hawk just shut down. I have never heard a professional broadcaster mope so much in my life.

SOXSINCE'70
10-04-2012, 01:50 PM
Wasn't one of those games the "WEGNER!" game?

Yes, Paciorek was there for the "Wegner" game.And IIRC, he was blown away that Hawk would go that postal over a call.

Domeshot17
10-04-2012, 01:55 PM
IF the Sox want to grow the fan base, moving Hawk into some kind of Team Ambassador role and out of the face of the ball club role is 100% needed.

His act has just grown tired, stale, and its a joke. He is a joke. Its a shame, he is a nice guy, I think he cares deeply about the White Sox, but he can't do his job anymore.

DeadMoney
10-04-2012, 02:00 PM
IF the Sox want to grow the fan base, moving Hawk into some kind of Team Ambassador role and out of the face of the ball club role is 100% needed.

His act has just grown tired, stale, and its a joke. He is a joke. Its a shame, he is a nice guy, I think he cares deeply about the White Sox, but he can't do his job anymore.

I agree. The problem is it would hurt a lot of people in the organization to even suggest this to Hawk.

I'm not sure if it's possible, but I would even be open to a phasing out, where he does an inning - or a game - here and there (or when Stone is out). But, for the most part he just hangs out at the park and is more like a Moose Skowron type.

SOXSINCE'70
10-04-2012, 02:03 PM
Yes, Paciorek was there for the "Wegner" game.And IIRC, he was blown away that Hawk would go that postal over a call.

I also remember an awkward silence after that rant.I wound up feeling sorry for Wimpy for having to endure the umpire baiting.

shingo10
10-04-2012, 02:18 PM
One reason that the Wimpy games were so good this year? Sox were 6-1 in those games. That makes Hawk happy and Sox fans happy,so Wimpy gets some love.

I like Wimpy but he did not really analyze this year,just agreed with Hawk on Hawks opinions,mainly. Ok for a fill-in,but for a full season,Wimpy would have to really re-tool his act and do some real homework.

Dan Bernstein,who loves to mock Hawk, says today that his sources say that Stone would like to return,but only with a different play by play partner.....not gonna happen.

Are those the same sources that told him Hawk was getting suspended for his umpire rant? Or that Illinois was going to hire a new basketball coach from a top 5 program?

I always felt like Stone was trying to be one of the "cool kids" with all his appearances on talk radio...maybe him and Hawk should have aired out like two grown ups instead of having Stone make little digs at Hawk on the radio all the time and then Hawk ignoring him during games. Who knows maybe they tried.

bunkaroo
10-04-2012, 02:21 PM
Well Hawk gave them their chance to fire him this season and they didn't take it. I'm guessing he'll give them another chance next year.

TommyGavinFloyd
10-04-2012, 02:22 PM
Are those the same sources that told him Hawk was getting suspended for his umpire rant? Or that Illinois was going to hire a new basketball coach from a top 5 program?

I always felt like Stone was trying to be one of the "cool kids" with all his appearances on talk radio...maybe him and Hawk should have aired out like two grown ups instead of having Stone make little digs at Hawk on the radio all the time and then Hawk ignoring him during games. Who knows maybe they tried.

I heard what Bernstein said too, he didn't even say anything about sources. That was his conclusion after "hearing it twice" (the interview). I should ask Dan what the lottery numbers are going to be tomorrow.

Chez
10-04-2012, 02:44 PM
Hawk and Bobby V. in the booth next season.

slavko
10-04-2012, 02:54 PM
That is too bad because his performance in September certainly sounded like a guy who was ready to quit. I mentioned this earlier but I thought that earlier in the year Hawk and Stone had never sounded better but then that series with the Royals came and Hawk just shut down. I have never heard a professional broadcaster mope so much in my life.


You still haven't. :D: This situation needs Willsy so bad it makes the earth move under your feet. I wouldn't mind seeing both TV guys replaced. Wimpy in his brief gigs this year was the most complimentary broadcaster imaginable because all seemed to say was "That's right, Hawk." I love Wimpy, but that's not what a broadcast team needs. Stone is strong where Hawk is weak. That's called complementary and I'm sorry that Hawk can't handle it.

Stone's good but overrated. I wouldn't miss them if both were gone.

Tragg
10-04-2012, 03:11 PM
IF the Sox want to grow the fan base, moving Hawk into some kind of Team Ambassador role and out of the face of the ball club role is 100% needed.

Agree

If they want the Sox to remain insular, Hawk is their man.

kobo
10-04-2012, 03:42 PM
Are those the same sources that told him Hawk was getting suspended for his umpire rant? Or that Illinois was going to hire a new basketball coach from a top 5 program?

I always felt like Stone was trying to be one of the "cool kids" with all his appearances on talk radio...maybe him and Hawk should have aired out like two grown ups instead of having Stone make little digs at Hawk on the radio all the time and then Hawk ignoring him during games. Who knows maybe they tried.
I'm sure they have tried. I don't think Hawk likes Stone and I think most of that is because Stone won't kiss Hawk's ass or agree with everything Hawk says. Hawk wants everything to go his way, god forbid the 2 guys calling the game actually have a meaningful discussion about the game every once in a while.

fisk4ever
10-04-2012, 03:43 PM
I heard the entire inteview on Mac and Spiegs, with Stone.

He did say that at times when he has a different opinion on baseball,Hawk feels it is a challenge to his own expertise,and instead of just two perspectives on an issue, it becomes a bit of a tug of war...Hawk needs to be validated,always.


This is exactly how it sounds to me. Very tiring.

Lip Man 1
10-04-2012, 04:47 PM
D-backs have interest in Stone:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-arizona-parts-with-sutton-grace-stone-brenly-could-be-in-play-20121004,0,2533032.story

Lip

slavko
10-04-2012, 05:22 PM
Heard some speculation that Brenly goes to AZ and Stone replaces him.

WhiteSox5187
10-04-2012, 05:45 PM
Heard some speculation that Brenly goes to AZ and Stone replaces him.

Stone is still under contract and I cannot believe that the White Sox would allow him to go to the Cubs. If they did it would be a shame.

GlassSox
10-04-2012, 06:11 PM
Maybe it should be Hawk & Southpaw in the booth in 2013 :redneck

DickAllen72
10-04-2012, 06:14 PM
This is typical of this organization. Why does there always have to be some negative petty BS surrrounding this team every year?

Ozzie used to insult the fans and embarass the organization year after year yet Reinsdorf wouldn't let KW fire him and they only got rid of him after he decided to quit on the team with a year to go on his contract so he could take an offer for more money.

Reinsdorf took Hawk out of the TV booth and made him the GM because he thought he knew so much. He was terrible and quit after a year of failure yet they bring him back as their play by play guy. The guy becomes an unlistenable characture of himself, becomes the punchline of jokes and drives his partners away because of his huge ego, pettiness and mean streak and yet they'd rather lose a respected professional baseball analyst than let Hawk "retire."

Reinsdorf's misplaced loyalties along with the Sox' poor PR keeps this team from becoming a true first class major market franchise.

Brewski
10-04-2012, 06:27 PM
This is typical of this organization. Why does there always have to be some negative petty BS surrrounding this team every year?

Ozzie used to insult the fans and embarass the organization year after year yet Reinsdorf wouldn't let KW fire him and they only got rid of him after he decided to quit on the team with a year to go on his contract so he could take an offer for more money.

Reinsdorf took Hawk out of the TV booth and made him the GM because he thought he knew so much. He was terrible and quit after a year of failure yet they bring him back as their play by play guy. The guy becomes an unlistenable characture of himself, becomes the punchline of jokes and drives his partners away because of his huge ego, pettiness and mean streak and yet they'd rather lose a respected professional baseball analyst than let Hawk "retire."

Reinsdorf's misplaced loyalties along with the Sox' poor PR keeps this team from becoming a true first class major market franchise.

You just gave us the answer of what to do with Hawk. He's even had experience in the field. The Assistant GM job is going to be open.

DSpivack
10-04-2012, 06:45 PM
You just gave us the answer of what to do with Hawk. He's even had experience in the field. The Assistant GM job is going to be open.

:thud:

Over By There
10-04-2012, 06:53 PM
You just gave us the answer of what to do with Hawk. He's even had experience in the field. The Assistant GM job is going to be open.

Hello, Carlos Gomez!

RockJock07
10-04-2012, 07:24 PM
Stone is still under contract and I cannot believe that the White Sox would allow him to go to the Cubs. If they did it would be a shame.

I've always liked Len Kasper, Stone is probably just begging for a quality PBP guy to share the booth with.

fisk4ever
10-04-2012, 07:39 PM
You just gave us the answer of what to do with Hawk. He's even had experience in the field. The Assistant GM job is going to be open.

The Assistant to the Regional Manager position will be open after this season.

Viva Medias B's
10-04-2012, 07:49 PM
The question is whom is Jerry Reinsdorf more loyal to, Hawk or Steve.

WhiteSox5187
10-04-2012, 08:11 PM
The question is whom is Jerry Reinsdorf more loyal to, Hawk or Steve.

The answer there is Hawk. But I am hoping that this season took so much out of him that he will either be talked to about reducing his workload or he will step aside of his own accord. The broadcasts in September were painful to listen to, it was liking going to a funeral.

SI1020
10-04-2012, 08:44 PM
I've always liked Len Kasper, Stone is probably just begging for a quality PBP guy to share the booth with. Pat Hughes is pretty good. Len Kasper is awful.

COACH2005
10-04-2012, 08:52 PM
The best part when I turn the Sox on and there is Hawk is when. I watch the game with the sound off. I like Stone but Hawk is terrible

MarySwiss
10-04-2012, 09:00 PM
I've always liked Len Kasper, Stone is probably just begging for a quality PBP guy to share the booth with.

Len Kasper? I hope you're kidding. Unless you are looking for the melatonin combo. Then Steve and Len just might be it.

cub killer
10-04-2012, 10:43 PM
http://www.shermanreport.com/are-harrelson-stone-breaking-up-stone-talks-candidly-relationship-sox-booth/

http://www.csnchicago.com/baseball-chicago-whitesox/whitesox-talk/Hawk-Stone-up-for-Ford-C-Frick-Award-vot?blockID=782181&feedID=10338&awid=5312754334622155554-914

I'd rather Hawk and Stone continue together, and if there is still friction, then the Sox might as well market it with commercials that say "Two conflicting personalities. But there's one thing they agree on: Go Sox!. Can 2 grown men broadcast Sox games without driving each other crazy? Tune in to White Sox baseball and find out!"

Tragg
10-04-2012, 11:01 PM
Kasper is terrible.

MUsoxfan
10-04-2012, 11:08 PM
I like Hawk, I really do. His level of passion for the Sox is something I aspire to have. However the Foghorn Leghorn schtick has not only grown tiresome, but has also grown exponentially in the last few years

Scottiehaswheels
10-04-2012, 11:20 PM
http://www.shermanreport.com/are-harrelson-stone-breaking-up-stone-talks-candidly-relationship-sox-booth/

http://www.csnchicago.com/baseball-chicago-whitesox/whitesox-talk/Hawk-Stone-up-for-Ford-C-Frick-Award-vot?blockID=782181&feedID=10338&awid=5312754334622155554-914

I'd rather Hawk and Stone continue together, and if there is still friction, then the Sox might as well market it with commercials that say "Two conflicting personalities. But there's one thing they agree on: Go Sox!. Can 2 grown men broadcast Sox games without driving each other crazy? Tune in to White Sox baseball and find out!"
" And the longtime Sox broadcaster hardly didn't view that ranking as an insult. " from the second link...

I nominate this for worst sentence ever constructed.

Dan H
10-05-2012, 07:27 AM
I also remember an awkward silence after that rant.I wound up feeling sorry for Wimpy for having to endure the umpire baiting.

The oldest part of the Hawk's act is the constant battling of umps. We all get frustrated by bad calls, but so what? And to look at almost every strike and ball call during the season would drive me crazy. Hawk's excuse making also drives me crazy.

MARTINMVP
10-05-2012, 08:06 AM
This about sums up my feelings as well.

This is typical of this organization. Why does there always have to be some negative petty BS surrrounding this team every year?

Ozzie used to insult the fans and embarass the organization year after year yet Reinsdorf wouldn't let KW fire him and they only got rid of him after he decided to quit on the team with a year to go on his contract so he could take an offer for more money.

Reinsdorf took Hawk out of the TV booth and made him the GM because he thought he knew so much. He was terrible and quit after a year of failure yet they bring him back as their play by play guy. The guy becomes an unlistenable characture of himself, becomes the punchline of jokes and drives his partners away because of his huge ego, pettiness and mean streak and yet they'd rather lose a respected professional baseball analyst than let Hawk "retire."

Reinsdorf's misplaced loyalties along with the Sox' poor PR keeps this team from becoming a true first class major market franchise.

chisox12
10-05-2012, 08:52 AM
I like Hawk, I really do. His level of passion for the Sox is something I aspire to have. However the Foghorn Leghorn schtick has not only grown tiresome, but has also grown exponentially in the last few years



It's just plain depressing to listen to.

May have to get the baseball package next year so I can listen to the opposing team's announcers.

SephClone89
10-05-2012, 08:57 AM
It's just plain depressing to listen to.

May have to get the baseball package next year so I can listen to the opposing team's announcers.

I think we said this already, but this won't work if you're in-market.

doublem23
10-05-2012, 08:59 AM
May have to get the baseball package next year so I can listen to the opposing team's announcers.

The MLB package doesn't show simultaneous broadcasts of the same game, usually you just get the home team feed so you'd have Hawk 81 times a year anyway, but it's all moot, if you're location is correct and you live in Chicago, as Sox games are blacked out here. You'd still have to watch CSN, WGN, WCIU, etc.

KenBerryGrab
10-05-2012, 10:07 AM
The MLB package doesn't show simultaneous broadcasts of the same game, usually you just get the home team feed so you'd have Hawk 81 times a year anyway, but it's all moot, if you're location is correct and you live in Chicago, as Sox games are blacked out here. You'd still have to watch CSN, WGN, WCIU, etc.

For out-of-market games, the MLB.tv package (the online service, not Extra Innings) does offer the option of which broadcast you would like to watch, with occasional exceptions. You are right about Chicago-area fans and the blackout, of course.

tstrike2000
10-05-2012, 10:14 AM
Listening to Stone Pony on 670's Podcast from yesterday, it sounds like he's very happy with the White Sox organization and him leaving can be put to rest. His comments about Hawk were basically what everyone already knows. He's such a fan of the team that he experiences the high highs and the low lows. Also, Hawk has the tendency to take disagreements during the broadcast personally, but Stone said disagreements happen no matter who the two broadcasters are. It's all in how you handle it. So, nothing really new.

AZChiSoxFan
10-05-2012, 10:58 AM
The Diamondbacks announced today that both of their announcers, Daron Sutton and Mark Grace will not be returning next year.

An Arizona Republic article today stated that for their analyst, the team's top two targets are Bob Brenly and Steve Stone.

tstrike2000
10-05-2012, 12:27 PM
The Diamondbacks announced today that both of their announcers, Daron Sutton and Mark Grace will not be returning next year.

An Arizona Republic article today stated that for their analyst, the team's top two targets are Bob Brenly and Steve Stone.

You never know. Brian26 would certainly be happy.

mahagga73
10-05-2012, 12:58 PM
The Diamondbacks announced today that both of their announcers, Daron Sutton and Mark Grace will not be returning next year.

An Arizona Republic article today stated that for their analyst, the team's top two targets are Bob Brenly and Steve Stone.
Grace is awful .

tstrike2000
10-05-2012, 01:33 PM
Grace is awful .

It would probably also help if he could lay off the sauce.

kittle42
10-05-2012, 01:56 PM
It would probably also help if he could lay off the sauce.

That ties into the other thread we had going on announcers.

Nellie_Fox
10-05-2012, 02:10 PM
The MLB package doesn't show simultaneous broadcasts of the same game, usually you just get the home team feed so you'd have Hawk 81 times a year anyway, but it's all moot, if you're location is correct and you live in Chicago, as Sox games are blacked out here. You'd still have to watch CSN, WGN, WCIU, etc.
MLB.tv Premium package gives you your choice of home or away feed on every game that has both feeds. If you're only given one choice, it means the other team isn't on TV in their home market that day. And you're correct, if you're in the defined market for either team involved in the game, you're blacked out that day. When the Sox play the Twins, I have to watch the game on regular cable with the Twins' announcers, because the game is blacked out on MLB.tv for me.

DSpivack
10-05-2012, 02:11 PM
Grace is awful .

It would probably also help if he could lay off the sauce.

No kidding. Not that I watched it any more than a game or two per season, but what from what I gathered that telecast was awful. People think Hawk is unprofessional? The two of them would be giggling the whole entire time.

GlassSox
10-05-2012, 04:47 PM
I like Hawk, I really do. His level of passion for the Sox is something I aspire to have. However the Foghorn Leghorn schtick has not only grown tiresome, but has also grown exponentially in the last few years

I agree with you, the schtick is getting old. Perhaps it is time for him to retire.

SOXSINCE'70
10-05-2012, 05:07 PM
I've always liked Len Kasper, Stone is probably just begging for a quality PBP guy to share the booth with.

Whenever he calls a home run, he sounds like Kermit The Frog.No teal intended.

SOXSINCE'70
10-05-2012, 05:09 PM
The oldest part of the Hawk's act is the constant battling of umps. We all get frustrated by bad calls, but so what? And to look at almost every strike and ball call during the season would drive me crazy. Hawk's excuse making also drives me crazy.

The umpire bantering is really beginning to piss me off as well.:angry:

Brewski
10-05-2012, 09:29 PM
Just listening to some playoff baseball with Shulman and Hershiser. Now I think all four of our guys have to go. Those two are PRO's!

spongyfungy
10-06-2012, 12:36 AM
Just listening to some playoff baseball with Shulman and Hershiser. Now I think all four of our guys have to go. Those two are PRO's!

Listening to Chris Singleton and Jon Sciambi on the radio. Making the analyst do the play by play was/is a big mistake if you don't have the voice for it. I never had a problem with Singleton's analysis but his play by play was brutal. Now DJ has a bit of experience but I wouldn't mind a booth refresh

hawkjt
10-06-2012, 09:13 AM
The umpire bantering is really beginning to piss me off as well.:angry:


Since they started using the strike zone box at the start of last season,Hawks complaining about balls and strikes has been reduced considerably. He had two blowups this year,and it was on Quintana being tossed out on a umps judgement call,and then a home plate call.

I think Hawks issues with the umps have been muted effectively with the zone box...it had gotten very bad,but now he cannot dispute the evidence.

SephClone89
10-06-2012, 10:08 AM
Just listening to some playoff baseball with Shulman and Hershiser. Now I think all four of our guys have to go. Those two are PRO's!

But professional = milquetoast, bland, dime-a-dozen!

SI1020
10-06-2012, 10:39 AM
But professional = milquetoast, bland, dime-a-dozen! Yes I find Schulman pretty ho hum. I do enjoy Ernie Johnson and his team however.

rockinrobin2312
10-06-2012, 01:48 PM
Stone is kind of boring and has a bit of an ego. I won't mind if he's gone. I think the first time he subbed in he yelled "yes!" with Hawk and it sounded weird.

Someone brought up selling tickets. Honestly, even if you hate Hawk, he probably brings in young fans. More than any one more "professional" And unfortunately, the number of young baseball fans ain't the same as it used to be

Tragg
10-06-2012, 05:08 PM
Stone is kind of boring and has a bit of an ego. I won't mind if he's gone. I think the first time he subbed in he yelled "yes!" with Hawk and it sounded weird.



Hawk saying "Yes" sounds weird. Let's get some professional announcers and try to expand this fanbase and act like a first-class organization.

Konerko05
10-07-2012, 05:14 AM
I always thought Stone was great with the Cubs, and I was excited when he was joining Hawk.

Since he's been with the Sox, he hasn't really said anything at all. A lot can be blamed on Hawk and his immaturity. More should be blamed on Stone. He still has control over his own actions, and there was plenty of silence he could have filled.

From the get go, he never really wanted to work with Hawk at all. I can't blame the guy, but he knew what he was getting himself into. More effort could have been put forth by Stone to work together. Instead he seemed to pout, and hope the smart fans would know Hawk is making it impossible for him to sound smart. I am sure Hawk probably thinks Stone has an ego problem as well, and I could also see Stone acting like he is better than Hawk. Hawk does nothing to help his cause by constantly repeating dumb phrases with different tones of voice.

So I am pretty much indifferent on Stone coming back. It's nice to have the big name that is respected around baseball who we stole from the Cubs, but we wouldn't miss his insight if the Sox found a professional, compatible partner for Hawk.

I also disagree with everyone saying we need to get rid of Hawk to expand the fanbase. Getting an unrecognizable voice in the booth without a strong identity is going to do nothing to expand the fanbase. Although, Hawk gets plenty of negative attention throughout the country, he is one of the few things in our organization that gives the White Sox a little bit of an identity. In case no one noticed, I think we need that nationally with the state of media coverage. As someone else mentioned, Hawk can also bring in young baseball players as fans, who will learn very early in life many of Hawk's dumb catchphrases. This will give them a reason to turn on a White Sox game.

Also, in regards to the fanbase argument, the Sox television ratings went up this past season again. The problem is not lack of people watching the White Sox, it's lack of people watching the White Sox in the stadium. Getting people in to the stadium has little to do with our announcing team.

I am not totally defending Hawk's behavior at all. I like the guy, and I usually defend him to a degree, but he's slowly losing it. I am just saying Stone is not the talent/angel people are making him out to be in this thread.

Dan H
10-07-2012, 08:00 AM
Since they started using the strike zone box at the start of last season,Hawks complaining about balls and strikes has been reduced considerably. He had two blowups this year,and it was on Quintana being tossed out on a umps judgement call,and then a home plate call.

I think Hawks issues with the umps have been muted effectively with the zone box...it had gotten very bad,but now he cannot dispute the evidence.

I see the opposite. Any time I watch, he is complaining a hole Sox pitcher or hitter is put in. Hawk still does a lot of excuse making.

Domeshot17
10-07-2012, 10:36 AM
I always thought Stone was great with the Cubs, and I was excited when he was joining Hawk.

Since he's been with the Sox, he hasn't really said anything at all. A lot can be blamed on Hawk and his immaturity. More should be blamed on Stone. He still has control over his own actions, and there was plenty of silence he could have filled.

From the get go, he never really wanted to work with Hawk at all. I can't blame the guy, but he knew what he was getting himself into. More effort could have been put forth by Stone to work together. Instead he seemed to pout, and hope the smart fans would know Hawk is making it impossible for him to sound smart. I am sure Hawk probably thinks Stone has an ego problem as well, and I could also see Stone acting like he is better than Hawk. Hawk does nothing to help his cause by constantly repeating dumb phrases with different tones of voice.

So I am pretty much indifferent on Stone coming back. It's nice to have the big name that is respected around baseball who we stole from the Cubs, but we wouldn't miss his insight if the Sox found a professional, compatible partner for Hawk.

I also disagree with everyone saying we need to get rid of Hawk to expand the fanbase. Getting an unrecognizable voice in the booth without a strong identity is going to do nothing to expand the fanbase. Although, Hawk gets plenty of negative attention throughout the country, he is one of the few things in our organization that gives the White Sox a little bit of an identity. In case no one noticed, I think we need that nationally with the state of media coverage. As someone else mentioned, Hawk can also bring in young baseball players as fans, who will learn very early in life many of Hawk's dumb catchphrases. This will give them a reason to turn on a White Sox game.

Also, in regards to the fanbase argument, the Sox television ratings went up this past season again. The problem is not lack of people watching the White Sox, it's lack of people watching the White Sox in the stadium. Getting people in to the stadium has little to do with our announcing team.

I am not totally defending Hawk's behavior at all. I like the guy, and I usually defend him to a degree, but he's slowly losing it. I am just saying Stone is not the talent/angel people are making him out to be in this thread.

Getting Nationality is not going to happen. To be an effective marketer you have to know (1) what you have and (2) who you can sell it to. The White Sox proved in 2005-2006 that they will never be a national team, they won't be media darlings etc. If you can't move into that world coming off a world series title, you never will.

The money they need to make is by picking up fans in the state of Illinois. To pick up more fans, they need to swing fans who are jumping off the Cubs bandwagon during the rebuild, and need to pick up the transplant city fans.

You do not do either with Hawk making the product unwatchable. And that is what Hawk is to any non diehard fan. Crap, he is unwatchable to a lot of the die hards at this point.

Hawk is not the Identity the Sox want. Sox Fans have the reputation, both locally and nationally, as being fickle (nicely put). Because of attendance, we get viewed as fans who just tune out when things are not going right. Hawk is the face of that. He doesn't inspire the fanbase any more, and he turns it off. Announcers do not bring fans to the ball park, but they can turn a consumer away from the entire product. That is what Hawk is doing.

KingXerxes
10-07-2012, 01:13 PM
But professional = milquetoast, bland, dime-a-dozen!

Which may very well be the reason almost every team hires a "boring, dime-a-dozen, bland milquetoast" in the first place.

I have never turned on a television or radio in my life to hear the announcer's opinion. I turn them on to watch/listen to the game. It is about the team after all.

Only with very few exceptions does an announcer ever gain such status as to attract viewers/listeners to hear the announcer himself. Ken Harrelson has never, and will never, gain such status. In forever trying to gain said status, he makes watching a White Sox game (particularly when they're losing) a chore.

Say goodbye to him and hire somebody who will simply compliment what is going on in the game, and not try to become a subordinate story to the game itself.

fisk4ever
10-07-2012, 05:38 PM
...but we wouldn't miss his insight if the Sox found a professional, compatible partner for Hawk.

As someone else mentioned, Hawk can also bring in young baseball players as fans, who will learn very early in life many of Hawk's dumb catchphrases. This will give them a reason to turn on a White Sox game.

"Compatible with Hawk" is a problem.

What young fan would think it's cool to hear repetitions of "Stretch, stretch. Dadgummit." "It's all good." "Don't stop now, boys." ?

Tragg
10-07-2012, 06:40 PM
As someone else mentioned, Hawk can also bring in young baseball players as fans, who will learn very early in life many of Hawk's dumb catchphrases.

I doubt those catchphrases appeal to young viewers.

I agree that an outgoing announcer is important. But they've got to be a positive personality, be for the Sox (without over-doing the rooting) and be respectful to the opponent (which Hawk often isn't; "He gone" and "Grab some bench" are bush).

The Sox had 3 announcers who are better than what they have: Singleton, Rooney and Wills.

SephClone89
10-07-2012, 06:53 PM
I doubt those catchphrases appeal to young viewers.

I agree that an outgoing announcer is important. But they've got to be a positive personality, be for the Sox (without over-doing the rooting) and be respectful to the opponent (which Hawk often isn't; "He gone" and "Grab some bench" are bush).

The Sox had 3 announcers who are better than what they have: Singleton, Rooney and Wills.

I hope Hawk becomes an "outgoing" announcer in both senses of the word.

Domeshot17
10-07-2012, 07:15 PM
I doubt those catchphrases appeal to young viewers.

I agree that an outgoing announcer is important. But they've got to be a positive personality, be for the Sox (without over-doing the rooting) and be respectful to the opponent (which Hawk often isn't; "He gone" and "Grab some bench" are bush).

The Sox had 3 announcers who are better than what they have: Singleton, Rooney and Wills.

Well the big thing is too, I am almost 30, so the earliest baseball that I remember was Hawk and Wimpy. I used to love "You can put it on the board, yes"...

BUT, how many parents are going to let their Kids tune into Hawk when every inning he is saying BS, Crap, proclaiming how he wishes they would let him cuss on the air.

The truth is, Hawk is not the vivid and capturing Baseball mind he was 15 years ago. Hawk is an old man who has done what old men do, got old, got grumpy, lost his mind and his ability to be what he once was.

TaylorStSox
10-07-2012, 07:16 PM
The whole organization is far too introverted. I used to think that "loyalty" was a positive. However, this franchise is dying for a fresh perspective. Hiring a new, young, fresh announcer is a great place to start. I know I'm not the only person that thinks the whole franchise is stale.

Noneck
10-07-2012, 07:43 PM
The whole organization is far too introverted. I used to think that "loyalty" was a positive.

Loyalty is a honorable trait, the ability to control others is not.

dickallen15
10-08-2012, 06:15 AM
Anyone ever watch MLB Network? They use Hawk's catch phrases all the time. Game 162 there was one announcer on the Sox TV side enthused about the game. There was one announcer not "grumpy", and it wasn't Steve Stone.

Golden Sox
10-08-2012, 07:54 AM
It's a shame we can't bring back the great Bob Elson. I'm sure he's up in heaven playing gin rummy but I'm also sure he would rather be announcing the White Sox games.

soxinem1
10-08-2012, 10:55 AM
We've sure come a long way from when DJ became the Wally Pipp of broadcasters, when Steve Stone filled in for him and everyone, including myself, thought they were made to broadcast together.

Since that time it is obvious, even when the team was playing well, that this paring was reaching a divorce stage.

It is obvious Hawk's vision is really taking a hit, as now we have too many 'STRETCH' calls that don't even make the warning track, too many missed play calls because of the story telling, and those patented bursts of silence that have plagued the broadcasts too often over the last several years.

As much as I like Hawk and have defended him for several decades and will miss him when he does finally hang it up, I would have no problem if the team revamped the broadcast, if it was done on both the radio and TV. Seven years of Farmer as PBP has made the radio broadcast worse and worse. I actually prefer DJ when he does PBP.

Too bad we can't get Dan Shulman to pair with DJ on the radio, and then get Tommy John with Stone for the TV broadcasts. Then we would have the best paired announcers in the game.

harwar
10-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Hawk is an old man who has done what old men do, got old, got grumpy, lost his mind and his ability to be what he once was.

heh,i have more in common with Hawk than i thought .. i'm around his age and i should love the guy,but the past 3 years it has gotten to the point where i just can't listen anymore ..

102605
10-08-2012, 12:15 PM
I like Hawk but the time has come and past. He needs to GO!

Nellie_Fox
10-08-2012, 01:17 PM
It's a shame we can't bring back the great Bob Elson. I'm sure he's up in heaven playing gin rummy but I'm also sure he would rather be announcing the White Sox games.I have fond memories of listening to Sox games on WCFL as a kid, but come on, Elson was incredibly bland and boring. He was a radio guy, and there'd be extended periods of him saying absolutely nothing, and all you heard was the murmur of the crowd in the background.

LITTLE NELL
10-08-2012, 01:24 PM
I have fond memories of listening to Sox games on WCFL as a kid, but come on, Elson was incredibly bland and boring. He was a radio guy, and there'd be extended periods of him saying absolutely nothing, and all you heard was the murmur of the crowd in the background.

Yeah, but don't forget to call friendly Bob Adams at Andover 3-2020, he will be standing by the whole game to take your call. In the meantime there's a White Sox wallop and a box of White Owl Cigars.
Bob was a little bland but he was our voice for all those thrilling years, he was a great interviewer and has a place in the Hall of Fame.

harwar
10-08-2012, 01:35 PM
It's a shame we can't bring back the great Bob Elson. I'm sure he's up in heaven playing gin rummy but I'm also sure he would rather be announcing the White Sox games.


I have vague memories of him and Lloyd Pettit .. i loved Jack Brickhouse and Lloyd Pettit when they did the White Sox games .. his name reminds me of hockey,which was my first love, of course there was no one better than Lloyd Pettit in the booth for a hockey game ..

fisk4ever
10-08-2012, 02:42 PM
Yeah, but don't forget to call friendly Bob Adams at Andover 3-2020, he will be standing by the whole game to take your call.

How many times I heard that on my transistor radio! Thanks for the memory.

Konerko05
10-08-2012, 02:47 PM
I doubt those catchphrases appeal to young viewers.

If you say so. I have only coached little league baseball and have regularly heard kids saying or shouting these catchphrases on the field.

Noneck
10-08-2012, 02:54 PM
It's a shame we can't bring back the great Bob Elson. I'm sure he's up in heaven playing gin rummy but I'm also sure he would rather be announcing the White Sox games.


I liked the commander best with the red head.

slavko
10-08-2012, 04:10 PM
I have fond memories of listening to Sox games on WCFL as a kid, but come on, Elson was incredibly bland and boring. He was a radio guy, and there'd be extended periods of him saying absolutely nothing, and all you heard was the murmur of the crowd in the background.

Ha! You recall what I recall. Supposedly he was more animated before he went off to WWII, but he was surely more terse than Ed Farmer when he came back. Milo and the like did all the heavy lifting.

Remind me, when Harry came here, didn't Elson replace hin in Oakland? It was simply time for a change. Like now with Hawk.

I mean, if all we can remember is White Owl Wallop and Friendly Bob, what does it say for Elson's broadcasts? Something like Hawk's catchphrases being remembered more than the broadcasts. "Catchphrase" is a term used to describe what an outsider would call a cliche.

LITTLE NELL
10-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Ha! You recall what I recall. Supposedly he was more animated before he went off to WWII, but he was surely more terse than Ed Farmer when he came back. Milo and the like did all the heavy lifting.

Remind me, when Harry came here, didn't Elson replace hin in Oakland? It was simply time for a change. Like now with Hawk.

I mean, if all we can remember is White Owl Wallop and Friendly Bob, what does it say for Elson's broadcasts? Something like Hawk's catchphrases being remembered more than the broadcasts. "Catchphrase" is a term used to describe what an outsider would call a cliche.

One catchphrase I remember was when a Sox player made an error;
''Remember fans, errors like hits and runs are all part of baseball''.
Also ''Pierce looking up at the big board in center field''.
In his pre-game show I remember ''I'll be back with some more Dugout Dope in just a minute''
I loved when he touted an upcoming series ''Dont forget fans the Red Sox with Ted Williams, Jackie Jensen, Mel Parnell and all that gang will be here for Friday night game, a Saturday afternoon game and a tremendous Sunday Double Header''.

Goose
10-08-2012, 09:08 PM
In many respects, this is the most important question facing Sox brass. If the announcers can be seen as part of the marketing arm of the team (which I believe), then in my opinion some of the blame on the attendance problems over the past decade can be traced to Harrelson. He is one of the biggest homers when it comes to announcers on in TV (from a recent poll), so you can draw a conclusion that he has not been successful in creating new fans, since the Sox have had attendance problems for years.

Fandom is not all created merely by wins and losses (as can be seen by the support of teams like the Cubs) but by latent and nurtured feelings about a team, what it stands for, its public perception, how it plays to a person's feelings and sense of belonging. Harrelson creates a feeling of persecution, made up of bad calls, bad luck, and incessant woe-is-me play by play. People tune it to baseball as a diversion and they don't want to hear all this negativity.

Harrelson has not created new fans because he only preaches to the choir. And the choir does not like him universally, either.

Would we be having this discussion if Vin Scully were the announcer for the past 20 years?

The thread should have been closed immediately after this post. Perfect and exactly right.

Well said!

CoopaLoop
10-08-2012, 09:12 PM
Hawk and Wimpy for 2013!

TomBradley72
10-08-2012, 11:27 PM
hawk and wimpy for 2013!

+1

kba
10-09-2012, 09:45 AM
Remind me, when Harry came here, didn't Elson replace him in Oakland? It was simply time for a change. Like now with Hawk.

Bob Elson and Red Rush both went out to Oakland when Harry came here before the 1971 season.

The A's announced the Elson/Rush hiring soon after the 1970 season ended, but it was several months later before the Sox chose to hire Harry from among a group of candidates that included Vince Doyle from Detroit and Jimmy Dudley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Dudley) from the Seattle Pilots.