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View Full Version : *Official* 9-29 Hudson for 2013 DH? TB 10 SOX 4 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
09-29-2012, 07:34 PM
Pathetic

JB98
09-29-2012, 07:37 PM
There was a flicker of hope last night. It was extinguished with that poor performance right there. Suckage. The Sox need to win out and get help.

johnnyg83
09-29-2012, 07:38 PM
Twins go 1-9 with RISP ... leaving 9 on.

JB98
09-29-2012, 07:40 PM
Twins go 1-9 with RISP ... leaving 9 on.

At least Minnesota isn't lying down. They struggled against Verlander (who doesn't?) today and tried to mount a rally against the Detroit bullpen. I can't blame the Twins. They've already given us help this weekend.

The Sox just can't get it done.

BigKlu59
09-29-2012, 07:41 PM
Sucks when the bats have turned into Charmin paper toilet rolls.... Gee, we of the big bat are watching long flys leave the yard and we cant get a dinger , or hit for the life of us..

Sill keeping the faith, but these guys do make it ****ing frustrating...

Props to Hudson, loan the bat out... It looks like its the last one with a Lightning Bolt on it...

BK59

slavko
09-29-2012, 07:41 PM
Shut. Down. Sale.

Now.

JB98
09-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Shut. Down. Sale.

Now.

He won't pitch again this year. This was his last start.

Lip Man 1
09-29-2012, 07:45 PM
Hey at least they scored more than three runs! (only got four hits of course...)

Sale at one point was 14-3 by the way. He's faded just like this team.

Two down, four to go. All over but the shouting.

Three game lead with 15 to play turns into a two game gap inside of 11 games. That's what happens when you go 2-9.

Lip

Zakath
09-29-2012, 07:46 PM
11-16 so far in September, 2-9 since the 19th and Cy Chen.

Detroit's going to win the division by 3-4 games when they should have won it by 20. Here's to Texas or New York stomping the **** out of them in the playoffs.

DSpivack
09-29-2012, 07:49 PM
Xqojf_ZSRV0

Frater Perdurabo
09-29-2012, 07:49 PM
11-16 so far in September, 2-9 since the 19th and Cy Chen.

Detroit's going to win the division by 3-4 games when they should have won it by 20. Here's to Texas or New York stomping the **** out of them in the playoffs.

Actually I hope the Tigers win it all so their ancient owner can die happy and he'll stop plowing money into the team.

LoveYourSuit
09-29-2012, 07:57 PM
Hey at least they scored more than three runs! (only got four hits of course...)

Sale at one point was 14-3 by the way. He's faded just like this team.

Two down, four to go. All over but the shouting.

Three game lead with 15 to play turns into a two game gap inside of 11 games. That's what happens when you go 2-9.

Lip

Lip, for some reason your posts always give me the tone of joy.

Seems like you're having fun throwing up these stupid stats after every loss.

Enjoy I guess. :shrug:

Patrick134
09-29-2012, 07:59 PM
Hudson and Dan Johnson have had more good at bats lately than the starters.

Dan H
09-29-2012, 08:04 PM
At least the suspense is over.

RadioheadRocks
09-29-2012, 08:16 PM
Sox and Twins with "too little, too late" grand slams... if those weren't the cherries on top of the **** sundae.

RadioheadRocks
09-29-2012, 08:27 PM
Mama it was too laaaate... she's come undun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLMF5GM0Kt8

TommyGavinFloyd
09-29-2012, 08:51 PM
Actually I hope the Tigers win it all so their ancient owner can die happy and he'll stop plowing money into the team.

Maybe I'm just an *******, but I'd rather have him die without getting to see them win it.

Tragg
09-29-2012, 08:55 PM
Was there any reason to pull our leadoff hitter? Hurt or something.

JB98
09-29-2012, 08:58 PM
Was there any reason to pull our leadoff hitter? Hurt or something.

De Aza was a late scratch, according to both the Tribune website and the Fox broadcast. No elaboration on whether injury caused the change. I would guess so, but I can't confirm.

Patrick134
09-29-2012, 09:00 PM
De Aza was a late scratch, according to both the Tribune website and the Fox broadcast. No elaboration on whether injury caused the change. I would guess so, but I can't confirm.


On the broadcast , they said flu-like symptoms, which all Sox fans watching started feeling a few innings into the game.

Brian26
09-29-2012, 09:12 PM
Missed the game today so I'm catching up on DVR. 7-0 Rays in the 7th. So Hudson's going to hit a grandslam? Wow.

Meanwhile, I see the Twins also put up a complimentary 4-spot in the 8th inning, only to lose by two runs. Give them credit for not quitting.

The Rays are difficult to dislike. Their #3 hitter, Zobrist, laid down a picture perfect bunt. And, Zobrist is actually playing a decent SS for them.

Zobrist and Matt Joyce would both look good in Sox uniforms. I'd take them both in a heartbeat.

Brian26
09-29-2012, 09:14 PM
BTW, I'll take credit for this one. I've got Sale and Matt Moore on my fantasy team. I started Sale and benched Moore.

Lip Man 1
09-29-2012, 09:17 PM
Love:

No enjoyment at all, I'm as pissed as anybody...more so. That's my way of getting this **** off my chest.

Just another season where they piss away a playoff spot because they fall apart in the second half.

I'm putting together numbers on this for when things 'officially' finish. They'll shock you how many times in the past 10 years this has gone on.

Part of the reason the Sox are losing fans every year attendance-wise. And they simply can't seem to figure out why this happens as often.

Lip

Brian26
09-29-2012, 09:31 PM
Rios and Wise wearing their sunglasses on their hats....Tim McCarver on commentary...endless Triple-A pitchers that have no business being on the mound...there's so much to hate about this game.

BainesHOF
09-29-2012, 09:44 PM
Rios and Wise wearing their sunglasses on their hats....Tim McCarver on commentary...endless Triple-A pitchers that have no business being on the mound...there's so much to hate about this game.

Sending minor league pitchers to the mound at this point was ridiculous. So was emptying the bench. Fans can give up. The team shouldn't. You don't chuck your chance to come back, no matter what the odds.

F4L
09-29-2012, 10:10 PM
I was unfortunately at the game (can't turn down free tickets in 136, 5 rows off the field), and I let the entire team have it today. They deserve to be booed, and heckled at this point. As someone said, "if they don't care, why should we?" I'm NEVER "that" fan to boo your home team, or say anything negative to the players about their performance, but dammit, I did my part my bringing my ass out to the Cell to support them, to only get **** on every time. They deserve to be ridiculed. Its unacceptable. I once again don't blame anyone for not showing up. Good luck getting fans behind this team for next year. Can't even draw 30,000 on a FOX Saturday midday game in a pennant race on the final homestand of the year. Its not our fault, its the team/organization. So sick of them showing absolutely no heart, no care, and giving almost lethargic effort. Absolutely unacceptable, while once again, Detroit attempts to nearly give us another game to live.

Part of me is glad Detroit won today just so I don't have to care anymore, while the diehard in me is still hoping for a complete, and utter miracle.

Today was the worst time I've ever had a sporting event in my life, and I spent a total of $15 on two dogs and a drink. Absolutely pathetic.

Domeshot17
09-29-2012, 10:17 PM
Season comes to a quiet, lackluster end. Would have been nice to see some fight, but this team didn't have any left this month.

SCCWS
09-29-2012, 10:18 PM
I'm putting together numbers on this for when things 'officially' finish. They'll shock you how many times in the past 10 years this has gone on.

Part of the reason the Sox are losing fans every year attendance-wise. And they simply can't seem to figure out why this happens as often.

Lip

Lip: looking forward to your info. I think an interesting breakout would include whether the offense or pitching seems to be the reason for this 2nd half swoon. Probably both but it could tell a story

SCCWS
09-29-2012, 10:20 PM
i was unfortunately at the game (can't turn down free tickets in 136, 5 rows off the field), and i let the entire team have it today. They deserve to be booed, and heckled at this point. As someone said, "if they don't care, why should we?" i'm never "that" fan to boo your home team, or say anything negative to the players about their performance, but dammit, i did my part my bringing my ass out to the cell to support them, to only get **** on every time. They deserve to be ridiculed. Its unacceptable. I once again don't blame anyone for not showing up. Good luck getting fans behind this team for next year. Can't even draw 30,000 on a fox saturday midday game in a pennant race on the final homestand of the year. Its not our fault, its the team/organization. So sick of them showing absolutely no heart, no care, and giving almost lethargic effort. Absolutely unacceptable, while once again, detroit attempts to nearly give us another game to live.

Part of me is glad detroit won today just so i don't have to care anymore, while the diehard in me is still hoping for a complete, and utter miracle.

Today was the worst time i've ever had a sporting event in my life, and i spent a total of $15 on two dogs and a drink. Absolutely pathetic.


did you boo chris sale???????

F4L
09-29-2012, 10:23 PM
did you boo chris sale???????

Absolutely not. Him & Rios are the only two from the "regulars" today that don't deserve it. Sale logged 192 IP this year, NOBODY expected that. Kid's a legit stud.

tstrike2000
09-29-2012, 10:24 PM
Watching the last month, in some ways, is like watching the '07 team. The offense can't do anything and after our starter leaves, it's eight AAA garbage pitchers that come in. The only difference is Robin makes more trips to the mound than Joe Mauer.

Why does he keep bringing in inferior AAA pitching and making 18 pitching changes a game? Is it because Robin already conceded the season? Has early onset dimentia set in? Does Don Coooper have blackmail material on the organization and demands to see all our future "young guns?" Is he really just that bad of a manager and the first four months were smoke and mirrors? Is the lack of MLB coaching experience rearing its ugly head?

RadioheadRocks
09-29-2012, 10:29 PM
Watching the last month, in some ways, is like watching the '07 team. The offense can't do anything and after our starter leaves, it's eight AAA garbage pitchers that come in. The only difference is Robin makes more trips to the mound than Joe Mauer.

Why does he keep bringing in inferior AAA pitching and making 18 pitching changes a game? Is it because Robin already conceded the season? Has early onset dimentia set in? Does Don Coooper have blackmail material on the organization and demands to see all our future "young guns?" Is he really just that bad of a manager and the first four months were smoke and mirrors? Is the lack of MLB coaching experience rearing its ugly head?

As far as "bullpen roulette" goes, I couldn't understand why Robin would mostly use Veal to face only one or two hitters, then take him out. If I'm not mistaken, in several of those instances his followup relief ended up costing us the game. I've heard that the reason is that "they're getting him ready for 2013", but in the heat of a pennant race I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with the cost of tomatoes...

Lip Man 1
09-29-2012, 10:41 PM
I don't know if this answer solves the situation completely but it looks to me like Robin might be one of the most 'match-up' prone managers in the game.

It's clear, crystal clear, he's a percentage guy for right or wrong. If that means making four changes to get through two innings that's what he's going to do apparently.

In that respect (and only that respect) he could make Ozzie look moderate.

Nothing wrong with that philosophy I guess if you have a stud bullpen and can mix and match six guys all pitching 'lights-out' like the Sox bullpens in the mid 60's, 1990 or 2005.

But if you don't have those guys...you could be in deep ****.

Lip

russ99
09-29-2012, 10:43 PM
As far as "bullpen roulette" goes, I couldn't understand why Robin would mostly use Veal to face only one or two hitters, then take him out. If I'm not mistaken, in several of those instances his followup relief ended up costing us the game. I've heard that the reason is that "they're getting him ready for 2013", but in the heat of a pennant race I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with the cost of tomatoes...

This is my only real gripe against Robin, and who knows if it's inexperience or giving Coop too much say on pitching changes.

How can our relievers prepare themselves and have any kind of consistency when they're jerked in and out of the game at whim?

The way almost every other team does it is giving their guys roles. That way they know what know of situation they're going to face. Usually you have a closer, an 8th inning guy, a 7th inning guy who can go the 8th when needed, and a LOOGY - which are used when the team is ahead by a few, the game is tied, or situations when they just need work.The rest of the guys are divided into short and long roles and go in when the team is behind.

I know this was frowned upon here early, along with most other things that Ozzie did, but it makes a difference over a season.

slavko
09-29-2012, 11:14 PM
Watching the last month, in some ways, is like watching the '07 team. The offense can't do anything and after our starter leaves, it's eight AAA garbage pitchers that come in. The only difference is Robin makes more trips to the mound than Joe Mauer.

Why does he keep bringing in inferior AAA pitching and making 18 pitching changes a game? Is it because Robin already conceded the season? Has early onset dimentia set in? Does Don Coooper have blackmail material on the organization and demands to see all our future "young guns?" Is he really just that bad of a manager and the first four months were smoke and mirrors? Is the lack of MLB coaching experience rearing its ugly head?

Sorting out the garbage guys is part of it, I guess. Half gone, couple to AAA, maybe a couple will work out. Ax is not a reliever, lord knows, but I can't ignore those few big starts. Need some warm ones to replace the departed guys in 2013. Hahn will fix everything in no time.

guillensdisciple
09-29-2012, 11:45 PM
The only good thing that happened to me today was buying a fitted Cuban national team hat for the world baseball classic. Looks pretty cool.

The white sox, oh those white sox.

Wedema
09-29-2012, 11:59 PM
As far as "bullpen roulette" goes, I couldn't understand why Robin would mostly use Veal to face only one or two hitters, then take him out. If I'm not mistaken, in several of those instances his followup relief ended up costing us the game. I've heard that the reason is that "they're getting him ready for 2013", but in the heat of a pennant race I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with the cost of tomatoes...

Robin managed the bullpen better when it was only a 25 man roster. With the extra bodies out there, his is over managing the pen.

Dibbs
09-30-2012, 12:11 AM
Sox last 10 games: 2-8 record

Wise last 10 games: 0-19

I know Wise wasn't the only reason we choked away the division. But please take note Robin: if you play bums, you lose games.

happydude
09-30-2012, 12:29 AM
Sox last 10 games: 2-8 record

Wise last 10 games: 0-19

I know Wise wasn't the only reason we choked away the division. But please take note Robin: if you play bums, you lose games.

Wise isn't the problem. Wise has shown that in limited situations he can do some damage with the bat; he then cools off considerably and begins to suck. The problem lies in needing him in the first place. That's a front office problem; not a Dewayne Wise or Robin Ventura problem. We have a middling roster.

DSpivack
09-30-2012, 12:37 AM
Sox last 10 games: 2-8 record

Wise last 10 games: 0-19

I know Wise wasn't the only reason we choked away the division. But please take note Robin: if you play bums, you lose games.

So today would you have forced De Aza to play injured because you think Wise is a bum?

amsteel
09-30-2012, 01:15 AM
Showed up in the 3rd, left in the 6th and still feel like I wasted an afternoon.

Thanks 2012 White Sox for being exactly the team I thought you were 6 months ago.

palehozenychicty
09-30-2012, 01:22 AM
Oh well. What can you do?

Jurr
09-30-2012, 01:28 AM
Showed up in the 3rd, left in the 6th and still feel like I wasted an afternoon.

Thanks 2012 White Sox for being exactly the team I thought you were 6 months ago.

If you thought the Sox could make a run into the last week of the season, congrats. I had no such delusions.

As I posted on the Facebook page, I am happy to have been able to get entertainment from the Sox through September. This team overachieved until it ran out of gas.

Jurr
09-30-2012, 01:32 AM
At the end of the day, you want your team to win it all.
If this squad snuck into the playoffs and was bounced immediately, we would still be disappointed.

As we saw in 2005, you need solid depth along the pitching staff, bullpen, and even far into the bench (Blum, Ozuna) to win it all.

This team was not built for such exploits.

Nelson Foxtrot
09-30-2012, 01:41 AM
If the Sox had gone 4-5 instead of 1-8 during that nightmare stretch during the last couple weeks, they would be in sole possession of first. They are now 36-37 since the All-Star break.

RadioheadRocks
09-30-2012, 01:42 AM
If you thought the Sox could make a run into the last week of the season, congrats. I had no such delusions.

As I posted on the Facebook page, I am happy to have been able to get entertainment from the Sox through September. This team overachieved until it ran out of gas.

At the end of the day, you want your team to win it all.
If this squad snuck into the playoffs and was bounced immediately, we would still be disappointed.

As we saw in 2005, you need solid depth along the pitching staff, bullpen, and even far into the bench (Blum, Ozuna) to win it all.

This team was not built for such exploits.


Jurr hit the nail on the head. I'm glad that the team exceeded all expectations, however these past four weeks have been absolutely brutal, and it was hard not to see it coming. You can only say "it's one more game off the schedule" and "Detroit also has their problems" so many times before you see the writing on the wall. "Home Run or Nothing" baseball was not going to cut it, plain and simple.

SaltyPretzel
09-30-2012, 02:28 AM
Jurr hit the nail on the head. I'm glad that the team exceeded all expectations, however these past four weeks have been absolutely brutal, and it was hard not to see it coming. You can only say "it's one more game off the schedule" and "Detroit also has their problems" so many times before you see the writing on the wall. "Home Run or Nothing" baseball was not going to cut it, plain and simple.

How much interest would Dunn have from other teams during the offseason?

thomas35forever
09-30-2012, 02:57 AM
So the last game proved to be nothing more than a big tease. What new?

Frater Perdurabo
09-30-2012, 08:15 AM
Robin has "over managed" his bullpen only lately, as starters haven't gone as deep, as innings for Jones, Crain and Thornton have piled up, and as Robin had thus had to turn increasingly to recent callups to get through games. Keep in mind also that due to multiple injuries, the desire to protect the youngsters, and general ineffectiveness, Robin and Coop have had to juggle.

This isn't like 2005, where Ozzie had five veteran workhorses he rode, plus a rookie - McCarthy - that he could plug in where needed.

If you're going to grade Robin on his pitching moves, he needs to be graded on the curve.

Dan H
09-30-2012, 08:24 AM
Wise isn't the problem. Wise has shown that in limited situations he can do some damage with the bat; he then cools off considerably and begins to suck. The problem lies in needing him in the first place. That's a front office problem; not a Dewayne Wise or Robin Ventura problem. We have a middling roster.


I agree with this. Wise is and was never the problem. This team just isn't deep enough and that traces right back to the front office. You can't blame only Ventura or a part time player like Wise. There is enough blame for everyone to share.

SephClone89
09-30-2012, 09:07 AM
Was in the upper deck for a friend's bachelor party.

1) my nacho helmet was REALLY light on guac, salsa and sour cream.

2) Pretty obvious from the get-go that Sale didn't have it. Showed good strikeout stuff the first couple of innings...

3) my friend's father decided he would root just for a Moore perfect game until it was broken up. Which, you know, din't exactly change the complexion of the game.

3) From section 538, we could clearly see Vasgersian and McCarver in the TV booth with the FOX bunting and it added a level to our banter during the slower moments. We usually satirize Hawk half the game, so it was nice to add some variety yesterday and approximate/lampoon Vasgersian's condescending, overarticulate tones and McCarver's general cluelessness.

4) the four consecutive two-out pinch-hitters, all of whom got on base, capped off by an Orlando Hudson opposite-field grand slam, was one of the weirdest and most hilarious things I've ever seen at a game, besides all the homers by no-power Tampa players. We also had fun trying to figure out how all five PHs would fit into the field--I assume Gimenez has outfield experience in the minors; we were surprised when he ran into right field. We were also slightly disappointed the Hudson didn't run out to 2nd base, thereby forfeiting the DH and completing the hilarity of the Cactus League lineup.


5) I got to boo Luke Scott. Loudly.

6) it's pathetic that my friends and I were able to derive our usual bizarre hilarity from this game, one that, y'know, was supposed to be a ridiculously crucial one.

Going back today with my father as the last game of our 7-game plan. Hey, might see the AL Cy Young winner's last start of the year...hoping to raid the Depot for clearance deals. What else happens for Fan Appreciation Day? I understand the autograph session is off.

ChiSoxGal85
09-30-2012, 10:05 AM
I just listened to Robin's press conference after the game yesterday. He said: "We stunk...It's pretty simple. We did. We didn't hit. Everybody that came off the bench seemed to hit, or do something, but that's just...that's the way it goes." That's about as unhappy as I've seen him during a press conference.

Tragg
09-30-2012, 10:12 AM
Wise isn't a problem in the sense that he doesn't insert himself in the lineup. People accurately point out he's good in limited situations - but our managers (both Ventura and Guillen) refused to limit his use to those limited situations. I'll be kind and say that the managers, when looking at the bench, think to themselves "well at least he's capable of getting on hot streaks", and looking for the positive, ignore the horrendous hitting that is his norm, so they insert him into the lineup.
And this entire season, lack of anyone who could hit lick on the bench was a glaring issue. Unfortunately, Wise isn't a legitimate solution to that. But thankfully, he did have his hot streak while on the Sox and while De Aza was hurt.
In fact, the only decent bench player we had all season was Escobar, and we dumped him with others for Liriano.

Wedema
09-30-2012, 10:25 AM
Going back today with my father as the last game of our 7-game plan. Hey, might see the AL Cy Young winner's last start of the year...hoping to raid the Depot for clearance deals. What else happens for Fan Appreciation Day? I understand the autograph session is off.[/QUOTE]

I confirmed at customer service yesterday that there is no autograph session planned for today. The Sox have signed autographs on fan appreciation day for as long as I can remember.

SCCWS
09-30-2012, 10:37 AM
A statistic that confuses me is the number of doubles that the White Sox hit. If you look at AL batting stats the White Sox tend to rank between #3( home runs) to #8 ( batting average) in just about every category. Obviously most of the offensive stats are inflated by the 1st half of the season. But the White Sox are ranked last in doubles. Now obviously several of the main hitters are deathly slow. But for the Sox to rank deadlast, especially w the long ball potential of so many in the lineup, would indicate to me we still have players who do not hit for the gaps. Is the Cell a major reason???

Chez
09-30-2012, 10:42 AM
Robin has "over managed" his bullpen only lately, as starters haven't gone as deep, as innings for Jones, Crain and Thornton have piled up, and as Robin had thus had to turn increasingly to recent callups to get through games. Keep in mind also that due to multiple injuries, the desire to protect the youngsters, and general ineffectiveness, Robin and Coop have had to juggle.

This isn't like 2005, where Ozzie had five veteran workhorses he rode, plus a rookie - McCarthy - that he could plug in where needed.

If you're going to grade Robin on his pitching moves, he needs to be graded on the curve.

Totally agree. Robin managed the bullpen better when his starters were going 6 and 7 innings rather than 3 and 4 innings! It's the weaing down/ineffectiveness of the starters (Sale yesterday; Lirianao and Quintana regularly) that has contributed to the use of the Triple A guys. Who was he supposed to bring in to the game in the 4th? Crain? Thornton? His only options yesterday were Humber or the Triple A guys. I agree that the higher number of pitching changes in the 7th and 8th innings are curious, but I attribute some of that to the effectiveness of Veal and Robin wanting Veal to get one (and seemingly only one) left handed hitter out per game -- something Will Ohman couldn't due during the first half of the season.

Cat Thief
09-30-2012, 11:23 AM
Highlight of the game was watching some young kid get tossed from the bleachers. It took 5 security guards to get him out.


:cool:

SOXSINCE'70
09-30-2012, 11:43 AM
If Robin Ventura can put the same ****ing lineup out there with no changes at all when the offense is nonexistent,I can repeat myself.Again.

To paraphrase Dennis Green:

"The Tigers are who we thought they were.That's why we took the damn field.You wanna crown 'em,then CROWN THEIR ASS!! They're a good team and we let 'em off the hook!" :angry::angry:

SOXSINCE'70
09-30-2012, 11:46 AM
I agree with this. Wise is and was never the problem. This team just isn't deep enough and that traces right back to the front office. You can't blame only Ventura or a part time player like Wise. There is enough blame for everyone to share.

Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams,FIX THIS!!:angry:

GlassSox
09-30-2012, 11:51 AM
Highlight of the game was watching some young kid get tossed from the bleachers. It took 5 security guards to get him out.


:cool:

Do you happen to know what that was all about?

WhiffleBall
09-30-2012, 11:53 AM
To add insult to injury the season ticket holder post season tickets arrived yesterday. My spirits really picked up after Friday's win and having possible world series tickets in my possession and then this game happened. :whiner:

SI1020
09-30-2012, 11:54 AM
How much interest would Dunn have from other teams during the offseason? I hope it's enough to move him. Some posters have been savaged for criticizing Dunn this year when he got off to such a "good" start, but I've seen more than enough.

GlassSox
09-30-2012, 11:59 AM
To add insult to injury the season ticket holder post season tickets arrived yesterday. My spirits really picked up after Friday's win and having possible world series tickets in my possession and then this game happened. :whiner:

:yup:

Lip Man 1
09-30-2012, 12:15 PM
Robin wants to return, so I think those rumors can end:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2012/09/ventura-wants-to-come-back.html

Lip

LITTLE NELL
09-30-2012, 12:34 PM
I hope it's enough to move him. Some posters have been savaged for criticizing Dunn this year when he got off to such a "good" start, but I've seen more than enough.

It would be tough to give up a guy with 40+ homers and 90+ RBIs but all those Ks and a .205 BA drive me to drink.

Domeshot17
09-30-2012, 01:39 PM
The problem is not Dunn, The bigger problem is Konerko. You need 2 things from your 3-4-5, hits (preferably HR) and RBIs. Station to Station baseball is not the result of the heart of your order, its the result of lack of talent surrounding it. This year, we had poor offensive production from 3b, 2b, LF, and only average production from SS, CF and 1b.

when 2/3 of your lineup is Average at best, you are screwed.

Frater Perdurabo
09-30-2012, 02:07 PM
The problem is not Dunn, The bigger problem is Konerko. You need 2 things from your 3-4-5, hits (preferably HR) and RBIs. Station to Station baseball is not the result of the heart of your order, its the result of lack of talent surrounding it. This year, we had poor offensive production from 3b, 2b, LF, and only average production from SS, CF and 1b.

when 2/3 of your lineup is Average at best, you are screwed.

If 2/3 of the lineup is average, we need the other 1/3 to be All-Star quality. AJ, Rios and Dunn are among the best at their positions, but they cannot produce like Fielder and Cabrera (and next year, Victor Martinez).

central44
09-30-2012, 02:09 PM
The problem is not Dunn, The bigger problem is Konerko. You need 2 things from your 3-4-5, hits (preferably HR) and RBIs. Station to Station baseball is not the result of the heart of your order, its the result of lack of talent surrounding it. This year, we had poor offensive production from 3b, 2b, LF, and only average production from SS, CF and 1b.

when 2/3 of your lineup is Average at best, you are screwed.

Yup.

Dunn has done exactly what he was expected to do--hit home runs and drive runs in. The strikeouts come with the territory. Nobody will be disappointed if he's moved, but he's not the problem.

Konerko has been flat out awful since the All Star Break, and he's been hitting fourth all year. I don't know if it's the injury or if he's just lost it (like 2009 Dye). But he has not provided what is needed in the heart of the order.

WhiteSox5187
09-30-2012, 02:13 PM
The problem is not Dunn, The bigger problem is Konerko. You need 2 things from your 3-4-5, hits (preferably HR) and RBIs. Station to Station baseball is not the result of the heart of your order, its the result of lack of talent surrounding it. This year, we had poor offensive production from 3b, 2b, LF, and only average production from SS, CF and 1b.

when 2/3 of your lineup is Average at best, you are screwed.

I think the problem with Dunn is that you need to surround him with fairly good hitters in order to live with that .205 average, when you have a lineup full of .250 hitters that .205 average and all those strikeouts become very glaring.

BainesHOF
09-30-2012, 02:54 PM
I was unfortunately at the game (can't turn down free tickets in 136, 5 rows off the field), and I let the entire team have it today. They deserve to be booed, and heckled at this point. As someone said, "if they don't care, why should we?" I'm NEVER "that" fan to boo your home team, or say anything negative to the players about their performance, but dammit, I did my part my bringing my ass out to the Cell to support them, to only get **** on every time. They deserve to be ridiculed. Its unacceptable. I once again don't blame anyone for not showing up. Good luck getting fans behind this team for next year. Can't even draw 30,000 on a FOX Saturday midday game in a pennant race on the final homestand of the year. Its not our fault, its the team/organization. So sick of them showing absolutely no heart, no care, and giving almost lethargic effort. Absolutely unacceptable, while once again, Detroit attempts to nearly give us another game to live.

Grow up. You think the players don't care? Get a clue.

BigKlu59
09-30-2012, 03:01 PM
Not just glaring.... Some a bats have looked absolutely futile and pathetic in crunch situations... When they do get a pitcher in any kind of jam, they dont even make the guy work to get out of it... How many times have we seen when a guy has lost the plate after a walk to Dunn, Paulie comes up hacking at the first pitch? Dude, you have atleast a 4 pitch Muligan in that situation.. It just seems all of their hitting sense evaporated in the second half.. Agree with an earlier post of the lack of doubles output. Whats that all about?..Everbody trying to crush the ball to Omaha?

BK59

LITTLE NELL
09-30-2012, 03:24 PM
Not just glaring.... Some a bats have looked absolutely futile and pathetic in crunch situations... When they do get a pitcher in any kind of jam, they dont even make the guy work to get out of it... How many times have we seen when a guy has lost the plate after a walk to Dunn, Paulie comes up hacking at the first pitch? Dude, you have atleast a 4 pitch Muligan in that situation.. It just seems all of their hitting sense evaporated in the second half.. Agree with an earlier post of the lack of doubles output. Whats that all about?..Everbody trying to crush the ball to Omaha?

BK59

I agree but what the hell are the manager and coaches doing about it, don't they say anything to these guys about working the count or trying to hit the ball to the opposite field. This same crap has been going on since 2006.

tstrike2000
09-30-2012, 03:39 PM
Robin has "over managed" his bullpen only lately, as starters haven't gone as deep, as innings for Jones, Crain and Thornton have piled up, and as Robin had thus had to turn increasingly to recent callups to get through games. Keep in mind also that due to multiple injuries, the desire to protect the youngsters, and general ineffectiveness, Robin and Coop have had to juggle.

This isn't like 2005, where Ozzie had five veteran workhorses he rode, plus a rookie - McCarthy - that he could plug in where needed.

If you're going to grade Robin on his pitching moves, he needs to be graded on the curve.

Frater, as always, make a lot of good points and you're right about starters not being able to go deep into games and our regulars just feeling the results of a heavy workload. The team is running on fumes.

I just feel that out of all the MLB teams that are in the hunt, you'll never see a big league manager use guys like Omogrosso, Heath, Axelrod, Septimo, and Marinez all in the same game. Some of those guys arguably shouldn't even been on a MLB 40 man roster, let alone pitching in a game where we're supposedly fighting for our playoff lives.

Lip Man 1
09-30-2012, 05:04 PM
Nell:

Robin told the hitters he recommended bunting against Cabrera with his bad legs when they last played at Detroit.

Gonzo said he was basically ignored except for a player or two.

What can you do?

The days when Eddie Stanky could fine them or bench them unfortunately are long gone.

Lip

SI1020
09-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Not just glaring.... Some a bats have looked absolutely futile and pathetic in crunch situations... When they do get a pitcher in any kind of jam, they dont even make the guy work to get out of it... How many times have we seen when a guy has lost the plate after a walk to Dunn, Paulie comes up hacking at the first pitch? Dude, you have atleast a 4 pitch Muligan in that situation.. It just seems all of their hitting sense evaporated in the second half.. Agree with an earlier post of the lack of doubles output. Whats that all about?..Everbody trying to crush the ball to Omaha?
BK59

I agree but what the hell are the manager and coaches doing about it, don't they say anything to these guys about working the count or trying to hit the ball to the opposite field. This same crap has been going on since 2006. Yes both of you guys have it right. I'd like to add that this is possibly the rottonest I've ever felt at the end of a season. Yeah I know, nobody expected them to be in it in September and all that. Well they were in it, had so many chances to put it away and then to die quietly like this. Just a rotten feeling.

LITTLE NELL
09-30-2012, 05:26 PM
Nell:

Robin told the hitters he recommended bunting against Cabrera with his bad legs when they last played at Detroit.

Gonzo said he was basically ignored except for a player or two.

What can you do?

The days when Eddie Stanky could fine them or bench them unfortunately are long gone.

Lip

If that's true then we have a bunch of losers that all they care about is HRs and not doing the little things to win games, but we know that, its been that way for years.

Nellie_Fox
10-01-2012, 12:57 AM
Nell:

Robin told the hitters he recommended bunting against Cabrera with his bad legs when they last played at Detroit.

Gonzo said he was basically ignored except for a player or two.

What can you do?

The days when Eddie Stanky could fine them or bench them unfortunately are long gone.

LipThe manager still fills out the lineup card. You put on a bunt sign; if the player ignores it, he sits. They'll get the message. If managers can no longer sit a player down, then we clearly don't need managers at all.

BigKlu59
10-02-2012, 03:43 AM
Seems like we all got a case of Bitter Old Man "sick and tired of watching this **** "... Disease :D: I hear about these parts this:gulp: helps take the edge off.

BK59

RadioheadRocks
10-02-2012, 05:57 PM
The manager still fills out the lineup card. You put on a bunt sign; if the player ignores it, he sits. They'll get the message. If managers can no longer sit a player down, then we clearly don't need managers at all.


True, but sad to say it looks like Robin is taking the "Gandhi" approach, and we all know how that turned out when Manuel was our manager.