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View Full Version : Bob Nightengale Reports that Rick Hahn is New Sox GM; Kenny Williams to President


WhiteSox5187
09-20-2012, 04:05 PM
The article he links too doesn't mention that, but take it for what it is worth.

https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/248872008983666688

DonnieDarko
09-20-2012, 04:06 PM
...lolwut? This came outta left field. What prompted this sudden change?

Moses_Scurry
09-20-2012, 04:07 PM
Timing seems odd. I guess at this point, Kenny's main duties are finished for the season.

WhiteSox5187
09-20-2012, 04:10 PM
...lolwut? This came outta left field. What prompted this sudden change?

I am not so sure that this is going to happen as I haven't seen it reported anywhere else, but I suppose it lets Kenny leave on top (assuming the White Sox win the division) and allows Hahn to get the promotion he has been in line for for awhile.

doublem23
09-20-2012, 04:12 PM
I would assume that, if true, these are changes that would officially take effect at some point in the off-season.

WhiteSox5187
09-20-2012, 04:13 PM
I would assume that, if true, these are changes that would officially take effect at some point in the off-season.

When did Schueler resign? Wasn't it the day after the World Series? I assume that that is how it would work here as well if this is true.

Luke
09-20-2012, 04:13 PM
Am I remembering wrong? Weren't these rumors around this off season?

Mohoney
09-20-2012, 04:13 PM
This means that a GM job for Rick Hahn with any other team represents a lateral move. This is a pretty savvy move by Jerry Reinsdorf if the report turns out to be true.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-20-2012, 04:13 PM
...well then, that's quite interesting.

russ99
09-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Kind of crazy. May or may not be true, we'll have to see.

Also, there's a similar blurb out there saying Peavy's option isn't getting picked up, which is an even worse case of bad timing.

I was always a bit afraid of Hahn taking over, since promotions from within to GM usually don't work too well, and he may sit still (more than Kenny) on a payroll-cutting offseason with more focus on rebuilding than competing.

Say what you want about Kenny, but the guy has done a great job here and has always tried to push the envelope to get a better team on the field than ownership would had they their druthers.

WhiteSox5187
09-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Am I remembering wrong? Weren't these rumors around this off season?

I seem to recall reading a thread on WSI that the board of directors was not happy with Kenny and that he would be replaced at the end of the year. That was back in March when a lot of people thought that the White Sox would be terrible.

doublem23
09-20-2012, 04:15 PM
When did Schueler resign? Wasn't it the day after the World Series? I assume that that is how it would work here as well if this is true.

I think so. I guess they'd make the change now so Hahn can start on working on the team for next year. There's probably plenty of bull**** that needs to get done under the radar. No worrying about the chain of command, if true.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-20-2012, 04:16 PM
Also, there's a similar blurb out there saying Peavy's option isn't getting picked up, which is an even worse case of bad timing.

The only way his option was getting picked up was if he won the Cy Young this year, and even then, probably not.

russ99
09-20-2012, 04:17 PM
The only way his option was getting picked up was if he won the Cy Young this year, and even then, probably not.

Yeah it's fairly obvious, but why leak it now?

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 04:25 PM
RicKenny=GarPax?

DeadMoney
09-20-2012, 04:28 PM
Kenny responds with a non-denial:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-soxs-williams-mum-on-team-president-report-20120920,0,1621611.story

salty99
09-20-2012, 04:30 PM
I love it!

palehosepub
09-20-2012, 04:30 PM
if this is true it will be interesting to watch - I can't see Kenny letting go and not being actively involved with the GM duties which could cause a problem with Hahn. Kenny has always had the "difficult to work with" label, hope they have a clear understanding of their roles.

Makes sense though because JR is a fan of both and Hahn is highly regarded among mlb

kittle42
09-20-2012, 04:32 PM
Second best thing to letting him go. Good news all around!

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 04:33 PM
if this is true it will be interesting to watch - I can't see Kenny letting go and not being actively involved with the GM duties which could cause a problem with Hahn. Kenny has always had the "difficult to work with" label, hope they have a clear understanding of their roles.

Makes sense though because JR is a fan of both and Hahn is highly regarded among mlb

I really doubt this changes much on how the team works. Maybe Hahn will just be in charge of the more day-to-day stuff as GM, but KW has ultimate say in major personnel moves. Much like the Bulls with GarPax.

asindc
09-20-2012, 04:44 PM
Second best thing to letting him go. Good news all around!

Where are you and Tragg buying your champagne?:D:

thomas35forever
09-20-2012, 04:56 PM
This would be an interesting move to announce at this very point in time (if they even do).

LITTLE NELL
09-20-2012, 04:59 PM
The way I read it, it's more of a prediction than fact.

WhiteSox5187
09-20-2012, 05:24 PM
The way I read it, it's more of a prediction than fact.

Well Jon Heyman is reporting it and stating it is "confirmed."
https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/248893775005499392

mzh
09-20-2012, 05:30 PM
Given the timing of this I wonder if Hahn told JR that he would be seeking a GM gig somewhere else after this season if he wasn't bumped up here.

WhiteSox5187
09-20-2012, 05:36 PM
Given the timing of this I wonder if Hahn told JR that he would be seeking a GM gig somewhere else after this season if he wasn't bumped up here.

I suspect that if this is true it was agreed to at some point in the off season last year.

DonnieDarko
09-20-2012, 05:42 PM
Also, there's a similar blurb out there saying Peavy's option isn't getting picked up, which is an even worse case of bad timing.

Not picking up his dumbass option is fine by me.

I just hope that they try to work out a (sane) deal with him after this season's done.

white sox bill
09-20-2012, 05:44 PM
The media has seemed to put Hahn on a pedestal, but then they did same to Danny Evans too IIRC. I still gotta think KW will have a direct influence on what Hahn transacts

Boondock Saint
09-20-2012, 05:51 PM
The media has seemed to put Hahn on a pedestal, but then they did same to Danny Evans too IIRC. I still gotta think KW will have a direct influence on what Hahn transacts

Hahn has been a highly sought-after GM candidate for years now. I don't think he'd take a job as a puppet here when he could go just about anywhere and build a team exactly how he wants to.

Soxman219
09-20-2012, 05:55 PM
I'm feeling another GarPax situation here.

white sox bill
09-20-2012, 06:00 PM
Hahn has been a highly sought-after GM candidate for years now. I don't think he'd take a job as a puppet here when he could go just about anywhere and build a team exactly how he wants to.

I dont think he'll be a puppet but I think it'l be like the changing of the guard for a bit. Remember the Corleone's from the Godfather :) Or at least until he figures out the remote for the retractable curtains....

Domeshot17
09-20-2012, 06:04 PM
I'm feeling another GarPax situation here.

Similar situation but Kenny and Rick don't suck at their jobs like GarPax.

hawkjt
09-20-2012, 06:08 PM
After the season that Kenny has had, it would be a fitting time to call it a day,and let Hahn take all the brickbats for awhile. Kenny has kicked butt this year,and he can go out in a blaze of glory if the Sox finish strong.

Happy for Hahn if this is true,as he has been a loyal soldier for years,and from what I hear,he is good.

Boondock Saint
09-20-2012, 06:09 PM
Sorry if this sounds foolish, but who currently holds the position that KW would be taking over, and where is that person going?

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 06:13 PM
Sorry if this sounds foolish, but who currently holds the position that KW would be taking over, and where is that person going?

No one. Which is why I don't understand what changes under the current Sox regime except for job titles. Maybe Hahn becomes more of a day-to-day guy and KW steps back a bit, but it's not some radical change or change of regime for the Sox or anything like that.

Vernam
09-20-2012, 06:27 PM
No one. Which is why I don't understand what changes under the current Sox regime except for job titles. Maybe Hahn becomes more of a day-to-day guy and KW steps back a bit, but it's not some radical change or change of regime for the Sox or anything like that.

Major benefit of being Prez is not having to deal as often (if ever) with the media. Also probably a whole lot less travel and late nights, unless you're the micromanagey type who can't let go.

Vernam

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 06:38 PM
Major benefit of being Prez is not having to deal as often (if ever) with the media. Also probably a whole lot less travel and late nights, unless you're the micromanagey type who can't let go.

Vernam

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. Not exactly a regime change or anything like that.

kobo
09-20-2012, 06:48 PM
I really doubt this changes much on how the team works. Maybe Hahn will just be in charge of the more day-to-day stuff as GM, but KW has ultimate say in major personnel moves. Much like the Bulls with GarPax.
No way this happens. Why would Hahn be GM in name only if he doesn't have the ability to make the moves he feels are best for the team? The guy has had GM interviews the last few years and has reportedly turned down offers to be a GM elsewhere. If he's staying, he's staying to be GM and not KW's puppet.

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 07:10 PM
No way this happens. Why would Hahn be GM in name only if he doesn't have the ability to make the moves he feels are best for the team? The guy has had GM interviews the last few years and has reportedly turned down offers to be a GM elsewhere. If he's staying, he's staying to be GM and not KW's puppet.

Job title and pay increase, I would think.

Jerry Reinsdorf's other team works the same exact way. John Paxson was the GM, got a promotion upstairs and isn't the day to day guy anymore, GM Gar Forman is.

#1swisher
09-20-2012, 07:21 PM
CTL Gamenight Extra

White Sox are not confirming or denying anything. "We are focused on trying to get to the playoffs."

WhiffleBall
09-20-2012, 07:23 PM
So like the old Lucchino/Epstein setup in Boston and now the Epsten/Hoyer for the cubs. What other teams have a President/GM set up like this?

#1swisher
09-20-2012, 07:35 PM
Source: Dan hayes, csnchicago.com today

"We won't be discussing anyone's contract prior to the season's end, not even mine. The focus, as it's been all year, is on winning tonight's game. Anything else serves as another distraction from the outside and we don't allow this."

gf2020
09-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Similar situation but Kenny and Rick don't suck at their jobs like GarPax.
When Kenny and Rick build a team that finishes with the best record in the league two seasons in a row or get us to a conference/league finals/championship series in the last six years, let me know.

Boondock Saint
09-20-2012, 08:34 PM
When Kenny and Rick build a team that finishes with the best record in the league two seasons in a row or get us to a conference/league finals/championship series in the last six years, let me know.

How many teams in baseball can claim to have done that?

asindc
09-20-2012, 08:43 PM
When Kenny and Rick build a team that finishes with the best record in the league two seasons in a row or get us to a conference/league finals/championship series in the last six years, let me know.

Apples and Kumquats.

voodoochile
09-20-2012, 08:47 PM
CTL Gamenight Extra

White Sox are not confirming or denying anything. "We are focused on trying to get to the playoffs."

In other words it's true. If it weren't they'd definitely deny it.

gf2020
09-20-2012, 08:48 PM
How many teams in baseball can claim to have done that?
16 teams have gotten to the league championship series since we last did. (And the Phillies had the best record in the baseball the last two consecutive years.) I'm not saying that Kenny and Rick had to accomplish any of that, although I don't think a championship series appearance every six years is a crazy expectation. I'm just find it hilarious that they don't suck and yet GarPax apparently do.

Apples and Kumquats.
Obviously, there is no real comparison here but DomeShot17 went ahead and made one anyway so i thought it made sense to at least point out that GarPax don't suck, especially when compared to KW's recent results.

voodoochile
09-20-2012, 09:06 PM
16 teams have gotten to the league championship series since we last did. (And the Phillies had the best record in the baseball the last two consecutive years.) I'm not saying that Kenny and Rick had to accomplish any of that, although I don't think a championship series appearance every six years is a crazy expectation. I'm just find it hilarious that they don't suck and yet GarPax apparently do.


Obviously, there is no real comparison here but DomeShot17 went ahead and made one anyway so i thought it made sense to at least point out that GarPax don't suck, especially when compared to KW's recent results.

Well if KW was able to draft the equivelent of Derrick Rose recently, then maybe he would have better results too. Honestly, If the Sox hold on to win the division, they will have made the playoffs 3 times in 8 years. In baseball, that's successful.

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 09:14 PM
Well if KW was able to draft the equivelent of Derrick Rose recently, then maybe he would have better results too. Honestly, If the Sox hold on to win the division, they will have made the playoffs 3 times in 8 years. In baseball, that's successful.

I only brought up GarPax initially because Reinsdorf also owns the Bulls and their management set up seems similar to what the proposed KW-Hahn move would be.

Team-building is obviously very different in the two sports.

gf2020
09-20-2012, 09:18 PM
Well if KW was able to draft the equivelent of Derrick Rose recently, then maybe he would have better results too. Honestly, If the Sox hold on to win the division, they will have made the playoffs 3 times in 8 years. In baseball, that's successful.
I'm more than happy with KW, just don't see the need to say GarPax suck, especially since they've been incredibly successful lately. Getting handed an all star is one thing, successfully building around them another and GarPax did that. GarPax also hired Thibs and drafted Taj Gibson and Nikola Mirotic late and didn't draft Devin Harris and Spencer Hawes like certain posters wanted. They've gotten to a conference finals once, which is what KW and Hahn have essentially done. Just don't like Dome dragging his random and irrational GarPax hate into the thread especially since he once said this in 2010:
A title is a longshot, but I want to GET TO the ECF. If we do it next year ill be satisfied.
What did they do the next year? Make the ECF. The year after? A one seed that was undone by a random injury to their best player. According to Dome, they suck. Meanwhile, KW and Hahn get us into the playoffs once since 2005 and they apparently don't.

102605
09-20-2012, 09:44 PM
Sounds like a plan.

How about a Thank You Kenny Williams appreciation thread?

Seriously, this guy may have made some bold moves over his time but for the one season everything came together and worked I will be forever grateful for the rest of my life.

THANK YOU KENNY! What the White Sox achieved in 2005 means everything to me. :gulp:

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 09:48 PM
Sounds like a plan.

How about a Thank You Kenny Williams appreciation thread?

Seriously, this guy may have made some bold moves over his time but for the one season everything came together and worked I will be forever grateful for the rest of my life.

THANK YOU KENNY! What the White Sox achieved in 2005 means everything to me. :gulp:

He's not really going anywhere.

102605
09-20-2012, 09:56 PM
I still see it as a major change that he is stepping aside.

Hitmen77
09-20-2012, 10:24 PM
Do the Sox have a team "President" now? If not, what would a team president do that isn't the job of the GM?

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 10:34 PM
I still see it as a major change that he is stepping aside.

He's not really stepping aside, though.

Do the Sox have a team "President" now? If not, what would a team president do that isn't the job of the GM?

No, they don't.

Mark Gonzales' article explains it a bit:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0921-side-white-sox-royals-chicago--2-20120921,0,1956044.story

palehozenychicty
09-20-2012, 11:18 PM
Well if KW was able to draft the equivelent of Derrick Rose recently, then maybe he would have better results too. Honestly, If the Sox hold on to win the division, they will have made the playoffs 3 times in 8 years. In baseball, that's successful.

It's good. But they can do better. As the third major market in America, in the more competitive league, with the highest revenue teams like the Yanks, Carmines, etc., they can do better.

The Rangers and Angels have figured it out. I know that my team can do it.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2012, 11:22 PM
This and that:

The Sox do not have a team president for those that asked the question.

Russ: It's been in the papers for months that the Sox aren't going to pick up the option. Peavy himself was quoted months ago as understanding the situation. The speculation was that because Jake said he enjoyed playing in Chicago, that perhaps something could be worked out on a deal after the Sox declined the option at 22 million. They'll owe him a four million dollar buyout and then can talk to him again if both sides choose to.

Kenny has commented often in recent years how the day to day pressure is starting to effect him health-wise. Remember many said that Kenny would never quit or get fired because of his close association with J.R. but that he might get 'promoted.'

This may not be a bad thing, many felt the Sox didn't go far enough last year after they let Ozzie go, that Kenny should have been kicked upstairs and a brand new team put into place.

Seems to be happening.

Time for new blood. It'll be interesting as Hahn (assuming it is him) will have significant challenges with Youk, Peavy, Liriano, A.J. as free agents and Floyd potentially as one (Sox hold the option) plus Danks' uncertain status plus who knows what type of payroll he'll have to work with.

Lip

Lip Man 1
09-20-2012, 11:25 PM
Pale:

The Rangers and Angels "figured it out" because they are getting more money than the U.S. Mint because of their new regional TV deals. That's how they signed every free agent out there worth a damn.

The Sox deal with Comcast doesn't expire until 2016 and they'll get nowhere near the money, not even close.

I understand your overall point and I agree they can do better but TV money has become the driving factor in a lot of this and the Sox and not well positioned. (Through no fault of their own...)

Lip

SoxSpeed22
09-20-2012, 11:49 PM
We all figured this would happen at some point. Kenny had his ups and downs as a GM, but he did a great job reshaping this year's team. I've said before that he might be a better big picture guy while Hahn handles the day to day operations. The farm system is starting to show some signs of life, so hopefully Hahn builds on that.

shingo10
09-20-2012, 11:53 PM
The timing of this is just terrible. The only thing that should matter right now is winning so why in the hell would this come out now? Just awful. This will be the story for the rest of the season and it will get magnified with every loss.

DSpivack
09-21-2012, 12:02 AM
The timing of this is just terrible. The only thing that should matter right now is winning so why in the hell would this come out now? Just awful. This will be the story for the rest of the season and it will get magnified with every loss.

How it plays in the media is one thing, but I don't see why this would affect the players in any way.

shingo10
09-21-2012, 12:09 AM
How it plays in the media is one thing, but I don't see why this would affect the players in any way.


I sure hope so. Guess I'm just wound a little tight after the past two nights....just want to see this club winning.

voodoochile
09-21-2012, 12:25 AM
It's good. But they can do better. As the third major market in America, in the more competitive league, with the highest revenue teams like the Yanks, Carmines, etc., they can do better.

The Rangers and Angels have figured it out. I know that my team can do it.

This has been debunked. The Sox only have half of the third major market at their disposal. Call it 4.5M potential fans if they indeed can capture half the market, but again, the only thing that draws people to UCSF is baseball, there's no other reason to go, so it's not like they are located in the middle of tourist heaven ala the flubbies.

For reference sake, Detroit has 4.3, Minnesota has 3.1, Cleveland and KC both have ~2M.

Texas has exclusive rights to the D-FW area with 6.3M potential fans and one of the highest per capita levels of wealth in the country. They've made the playoffs 5 times since 1996, twice in the new millennium and won two pennants - both the last two years and no WS titles.

The Angels have 6M potential fans (half of the LA area( and again are located in an area with MASSIVE personal wealth. They have made the playoff 6 times since 2004 with one WS title to show for it.

It's not like these teams are significantly out performing the Sox.

The Sox have been spending like a big market team for several years too, some of those moves haven't worked out, but you can't say they haven't been trying.

kufram
09-21-2012, 06:45 AM
The timing of this is just terrible. The only thing that should matter right now is winning so why in the hell would this come out now? Just awful. This will be the story for the rest of the season and it will get magnified with every loss.

But this is not a story... well, except for here.

wassagstdu
09-21-2012, 08:56 AM
The timing of this is just terrible. The only thing that should matter right now is winning so why in the hell would this come out now? Just awful. This will be the story for the rest of the season and it will get magnified with every loss.

If they waited until the Sox miss the playoffs it would seem that the architect of Gio for Swisher-to-play-CF was being kicked upstairs because of his miserable performance. E.g., even with Dunn, Rios, and Peavy performing as projected, the team he built was a flop. Right now, at least for a few more days, they can pretend it was a reward for success.

Noneck
09-21-2012, 09:51 AM
This has been debunked. The Sox only have half of the third major market at their disposal. Call it 4.5M potential fans if they indeed can capture half the market, but again, the only thing that draws people to UCSF is baseball, there's no other reason to go, so it's not like they are located in the middle of tourist heaven ala the flubbies.

For reference sake, Detroit has 4.3, Minnesota has 3.1, Cleveland and KC both have ~2M.

Texas has exclusive rights to the D-FW area with 6.3M potential fans and one of the highest per capita levels of wealth in the country. They've made the playoffs 5 times since 1996, twice in the new millennium and won two pennants - both the last two years and no WS titles.

The Angels have 6M potential fans (half of the LA area( and again are located in an area with MASSIVE personal wealth. They have made the playoff 6 times since 2004 with one WS title to show for it.

It's not like these teams are significantly out performing the Sox.

The Sox have been spending like a big market team for several years too, some of those moves haven't worked out, but you can't say they haven't been trying.

Maybe you cant put the Sox in the rangers or angels category( and of course the yanks and boston) but you can definitely put them in and above the detroit category. That puts the Sox in the upper 1/3 in the AL, right below the rangers and angels.

shingo10
09-21-2012, 10:34 AM
If they waited until the Sox miss the playoffs it would seem that the architect of Gio for Swisher-to-play-CF was being kicked upstairs because of his miserable performance. E.g., even with Dunn, Rios, and Peavy performing as projected, the team he built was a flop. Right now, at least for a few more days, they can pretend it was a reward for success.


I guess...as long as they close this thing out and get the 12 last wins/tiger losses they need then it becomes a non-issue going into the playoffs. But until then I'm worried that it might be a bad time for this to come out for a team who's had relatively no controversies all year.

On a sidenote there was a poster before the season began who said someone up high in the organization had told him this very thing was going to happen. Kudos to him (whoever you are) and your good information.

voodoochile
09-21-2012, 10:56 AM
Maybe you cant put the Sox in the rangers or angels category( and of course the yanks and boston) but you can definitely put them in and above the detroit category. That puts the Sox in the upper 1/3 in the AL, right below the rangers and angels.

And amazingly enough they spend like it too...

Lip Man 1
09-21-2012, 12:49 PM
Voodoo:

My only quibble is with your comment that the Rangers and Angels haven't significantly outperformed the Sox.

As you know you can't get to the World Series if you are on the golf course the day after the regular season ends.

Texas and the Angels have in my opinion been pretty consistent in making the postseason, certainly more times than the Sox.

I think that is a big stat when judging how well a franchise is doing and in that regards to me, they are doing much better.

Lip

Lip Man 1
09-21-2012, 12:53 PM
Shingo:

Again for what it's worth, Peavy told the Sun-Times today he knew it was coming, he's not bothered by it, all he wants to do is pitch the Sox to the playoffs and he said again, that he likes playing in Chicago and would like to return.

Lip

doublem23
09-21-2012, 12:55 PM
Voodoo:

My only quibble is with your comment that the Rangers and Angels haven't significantly outperformed the Sox.

As you know you can't get to the World Series if you are on the golf course the day after the regular season ends.

Texas and the Angels have in my opinion been pretty consistent in making the postseason, certainly more times than the Sox.

I think that is a big stat when judging how well a franchise is doing and in that regards to me, they are doing much better.

Lip

:rolling:

The Rangers hadn't made the playoffs in a decade before this little run they're on. The Angels did have a nice little run of dominating the AL West, but if they miss the postseason again, and if the season ended today, they would, this would be 3 years in a row for them.

If you were on RangersInteractive or AngelsInteractive, absolutely no doubt you'd be slamming either of those teams for their performance.

DSpivack
09-21-2012, 01:06 PM
:rolling:

The Rangers hadn't made the playoffs in a decade before this little run they're on. The Angels did have a nice little run of dominating the AL West, but if they miss the postseason again, and if the season ended today, they would, this would be 3 years in a row for them.

If you were on RangersInteractive or AngelsInteractive, absolutely no doubt you'd be slamming either of those teams for their performance.

The big difference lies not in their success on the field, but in generating revenue. As Voodoo and others have said, that comes down to TV audience and the market they are in. The Sox just don't have as high of a potential for massive TV revenue that the Rangers, Angels (and Dodgers and others) have. Thus, Texas and LA of Anaheim can spend gobs of money on free agents and the Sox can't, at least not as much.

voodoochile
09-21-2012, 01:16 PM
Voodoo:

My only quibble is with your comment that the Rangers and Angels haven't significantly outperformed the Sox.

As you know you can't get to the World Series if you are on the golf course the day after the regular season ends.

Texas and the Angels have in my opinion been pretty consistent in making the postseason, certainly more times than the Sox.

I think that is a big stat when judging how well a franchise is doing and in that regards to me, they are doing much better.

Lip

Check it again, Lip. Prior to 2010 the Rangers didn't make the post season since the late 90's.

doublem23
09-21-2012, 01:17 PM
The big difference lies not in their success on the field, but in generating revenue. As Voodoo and others have said, that comes down to TV audience and the market they are in. The Sox just don't have as high of a potential for massive TV revenue that the Rangers, Angels (and Dodgers and others) have. Thus, Texas and LA of Anaheim can spend gobs of money on free agents and the Sox can't, at least not as much.

Luckily for me, all I really give a **** about is success on the field

Lip Man 1
09-21-2012, 01:35 PM
Voodoo:

I understand that. I'm going by your numbers and your comment from a post earlier in this thread. You said since 1996 Texas has made it five times and twice in the World Series.

Since 1996 the Sox have made it three times and once to the World Series.

That's doing a better job in my opinion.

You can make the case that the Sox have wasted as many excellent chances to get to the post season in that time frame as they've actually gotten in.

Lip

Noneck
09-21-2012, 01:37 PM
And amazingly enough they spend like it too...


We will see if that trend continues, considering the large discrepancy between detroit and the Sox salaries this year.

DSpivack
09-21-2012, 01:41 PM
Voodoo:

I understand that. I'm going by your numbers and your comment from a post earlier in this thread. You said since 1996 Texas has made it five times and twice in the World Series.

Since 1996 the Sox have made it three times and once to the World Series.

That's doing a better job in my opinion.

You can make the case that the Sox have wasted as many excellent chances to get to the post season in that time frame as they've actually gotten in.

Lip

Well, going by your own past standards, what matters is winning titles.

In that same time span, the Sox have won 1 World Series and the Rangers none (nor ever, for that matter).

doublem23
09-21-2012, 01:42 PM
Voodoo:

I understand that. I'm going by your numbers and your comment from a post earlier in this thread. You said since 1996 Texas has made it five times and twice in the World Series.

Since 1996 the Sox have made it three times and once to the World Series.

That's doing a better job in my opinion.

You can make the case that the Sox have wasted as many excellent chances to get to the post season in that time frame as they've actually gotten in.

Lip

:rolling:

This is silly. You're splitting hairs over 2 extra trips to the play-offs in 16 year? GMAB. This is a joke, right?

Oh, and here's something:

http://kelly.jefferson.net/soxforum/blog/whitesoxring.jpg

I'll wait for you to post a picture of the Rangers World Series championship ring, which I'm sure they must have won, since they've been doing things so much better than the Sox for the last 20 years.

:rolling:

Never change, Lip, these boards would be A LOT less funny without you around.

:rolling:

voodoochile
09-21-2012, 02:00 PM
Voodoo:

I understand that. I'm going by your numbers and your comment from a post earlier in this thread. You said since 1996 Texas has made it five times and twice in the World Series.

Since 1996 the Sox have made it three times and once to the World Series.

That's doing a better job in my opinion.

You can make the case that the Sox have wasted as many excellent chances to get to the post season in that time frame as they've actually gotten in.

Lip

I was going off of history, those 5 times are the only 5 times the Rangers have made the playoffs, or the same number of time the Sox have made the playoffs under JR's ownership. The Sox have made it twice since 2005 (same as the Rangers) and won a WS (one more than the Rangers).

voodoochile
09-21-2012, 02:05 PM
We will see if that trend continues, considering the large discrepancy between detroit and the Sox salaries this year.

2012 11th
2011 5th
2010 7th
2009 12th
2008 5th
2007 5th
2006 4th

Yes the Sox cut payroll this year after not making the playoffs last year and seeing the attendance not support the levels.

Honestly, the KW regime has proved the Sox are willing to spend for a FA or two or three to try to get to the next level. They've done it time and time again. The attacks on the Sox for being cheap are meaningless, trollish and sad.

Just my opinion...

Tragg
09-21-2012, 02:06 PM
I don't know much about Hahn, but it's time for a change.

TheOldRoman
09-21-2012, 02:06 PM
Ganging up on Lip is fun and all, but the Rangers are a better organization than the Sox right now. Nolan Ryan turned the franchise around when he became team president. He became partial owner in 2010 and for the first time in a long time the Rangers had an owner who actually cared about winning. Look at the team the last three seasons and the farm system they have. They are quickly becoming a model franchise. And this is from someone who generally defends Ken Williams.

voodoochile
09-21-2012, 02:08 PM
Ganging up on Lip is fun and all, but the Rangers are a better organization than the Sox right now. Nolan Ryan turned the franchise around when he became team president. He became partial owner in 2010 and for the first time in a long time the Rangers had an owner who actually cared about winning. Look at the team the last three seasons and the farm system they have. They are quickly becoming a model franchise. And this is from someone who generally defends Ken Williams.

Yes, the Rangers are well run at the moment, that doesn't mean the Sox are poorly run. It's actually possible for both teams to be having successful runs at the same time, unless your only standard is winning World Series in which case since 2006 both teams suck...:tongue:

Noneck
09-21-2012, 02:14 PM
2012 11th
2011 5th
2010 7th
2009 12th
2008 5th
2007 5th
2006 4th

Yes the Sox cut payroll this year after not making the playoffs last year and seeing the attendance not support the levels.

Honestly, the KW regime has proved the Sox are willing to spend for a FA or two or three to try to get to the next level. They've done it time and time again. The attacks on the Sox for being cheap are meaningless, trollish and sad.

Just my opinion...


Way too early to go into this. I'll wait to see what happens next year with attendance being lower than previous year and salary able to be taken off the books.

My point was that they should always be in the top 1/3 but it has been trending down.

DSpivack
09-21-2012, 02:16 PM
2012 11th
2011 5th
2010 7th
2009 12th
2008 5th
2007 5th
2006 4th

Yes the Sox cut payroll this year after not making the playoffs last year and seeing the attendance not support the levels.

Honestly, the KW regime has proved the Sox are willing to spend for a FA or two or three to try to get to the next level. They've done it time and time again. The attacks on the Sox for being cheap are meaningless, trollish and sad.

Just my opinion...

I don't think the Sox are cheap, I just worry going forward if they will have the resources to compete with the few teams getting huge TV deals. It seems in the past decade or so that only the Red Sox and Yankees had truly huge payrolls in the AL, but the Rangers and Angels (and Tigers, as long as Illitch is alive, but that's a bit of different case as I don't think he cares about how much the team makes or loses) have these now huge TV deals and corresponding revenues such that they can spend accordingly. I don't think the Sox have those resources, nor are they likely to in the near future.

voodoochile
09-21-2012, 02:23 PM
Way too early to go into this. I'll wait to see what happens next year with attendance being lower than previous year and salary able to be taken off the books.

My point was that they should always be in the top 1/3 but it has been trending down.

One year is a trend? The average of these years is 7th. Remember, it only started spiking in 2006 too. The 2005 club that won it all was a middle of the pack payroll. I don't know if the Sox will be a top 10 payroll next year, it's been a bad year for attendance, but maybe if they make the playoffs it will feed some season ticket sales next year. There wasn't really a choice but to cut payroll this year when the big ticket acquisitions the last few years fell mostly flat, though they've rebounded to have solid years this year for the most part. There should be money to spend next year though and I expect it to get spent. I can't picture the Sox falling off the map from a payroll perspective and becoming Cleveland or KC. It maybe a few years until they get back to $110M+ though and that's okay with me. If the core talent looks to be good enough to make a push with some tweaks than spend and go for it. If the pitching staff stays solid, the team will be there, the question is what to tweak for the position players.

TheOldRoman
09-21-2012, 02:40 PM
Yes, the Rangers are well run at the moment, that doesn't mean the Sox are poorly run. It's actually possible for both teams to be having successful runs at the same time, unless your only standard is winning World Series in which case since 2006 both teams suck...:tongue:My point was, it's a little disingenuous to go back to 1996 to say the Rangers are a bad franchise. Since Ryan became president, the team has improved every year. After missing the playoffs the first two years, they will have made it the last three (with two pennants). The Rangers in 2012 are a completely different franchise than the Rangers of 2004. The only thing they share are hats.

Dibbs
09-21-2012, 03:09 PM
Nothing will change, just the title of their positions.

kobo
09-21-2012, 03:25 PM
Nothing will change, just the title of their positions.
I don't understand why anyone believes this. Rick Hahn has been in demand as a GM candidate for the last couple years. You really think he's going to take the GM position in title only?

Noneck
09-21-2012, 03:37 PM
This will mean that the larger deals will now have to go through the president and then chairman, rather than just through chairman.

Lip Man 1
09-21-2012, 04:07 PM
Spivak:

You are confusing me with someone else.

My bottom lines for success are in order (lowest to highest)

1. Have a winning season
2. Make the playoffs

Anything above that is gravy to me. I've never said it's World Series title or bust, that's ludicrous.

That's saying a 95 win season in 2000 was a failure, that's ridiculous.

Double:

Glad I can entertain you. At least I do it without personally insulting people which is by far your M.O. It must be a burden being smarter than anyone else and having all the answers all the time isn't it?

Lip

russ99
09-21-2012, 04:23 PM
My point was, it's a little disingenuous to go back to 1996 to say the Rangers are a bad franchise. Since Ryan became president, the team has improved every year. After missing the playoffs the first two years, they will have made it the last three (with two pennants). The Rangers in 2012 are a completely different franchise than the Rangers of 2004. The only thing they share are hats.

And yes, they results need to come on the field for the expected impact of the Rangers to be realized, but difference here is they have more resources than the Sox and leverage those resources better than the Sox. TV deals are now a big part of it. Any word on if the Sox are going after that?

The Rangers go after the very best players and invest in their minor league systems, while the Sox mostly do it on the cheap, and blame the fans for not coming to the park.

And sadly, it doesn't seem that changing the GM will really change any of that.

doublem23
09-21-2012, 04:26 PM
The Rangers go after the very best players and invest in their minor league systems, while the Sox mostly do it on the cheap, and blame the fans for not coming to the park.


This is the first year since 2003 the Rangers have outspent the White Sox on payroll

kobo
09-21-2012, 04:45 PM
This is the first year since 2003 the Rangers have outspent the White Sox on payroll
Payroll is just one aspect of the MLB franchise. I think what Russ was referring to was the lack of money being spent on the minor league system and player development, and not going after many high priced free agents. In that regard, the Sox are cheap.

doublem23
09-21-2012, 04:49 PM
Payroll is just one aspect of the MLB franchise. I think what Russ was referring to was the lack of money being spent on the minor league system and player development, and not going after many high priced free agents. In that regard, the Sox are cheap.

The irony, of course, is that I think the White Sox and Rangers have about an equal number of exclusively homegrown players on their roster.

Noneck
09-21-2012, 04:52 PM
Payroll is just one aspect of the MLB franchise. I think what Russ was referring to was the lack of money being spent on the minor league system and player development, and not going after many high priced free agents. In that regard, the Sox are cheap.


Thats a good point the Sox should be able to keep their payroll in the top 1/3 and spend on minor league signings and of course scouting and player development.

Tragg
09-21-2012, 11:56 PM
Other than perhaps some of the current year trades to prop up this team of declining veterans, Williams hasn't made a quality trade in years.
Time for a change.

The irony, of course, is that I think the White Sox and Rangers have about an equal number of exclusively homegrown players on their roster.

The Rangers have far more usable or marketble prospects, and a superior current team.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2012, 12:15 AM
The irony, of course, is that I think the White Sox and Rangers have about an equal number of exclusively homegrown players on their roster.

That is true but the Rangers were also able to identify and trade for young prospects like Feliz, Harrison, and Andrus, when was the last time the White Sox were able to identify and trade for young players? Part of the White Sox problem isn't just the inability to develop young guys we draft but also an inability to identify and trade for young prospects in other organizations. As such the Sox are forced to rely on free agents (who are usually in their 30s) or failed prospects and washed up veterans.

DSpivack
09-22-2012, 12:20 AM
That is true but the Rangers were also able to identify and trade for young prospects like Feliz, Harrison, and Andrus, when was the last time the White Sox were able to identify and trade for young players? Part of the White Sox problem isn't just the inability to develop young guys we draft but also an inability to identify and trade for young prospects in other organizations. As such the Sox are forced to rely on free agents (who are usually in their 30s) or failed prospects and washed up veterans.

Funny you mention those three together! All acquired in that Mark Teixeira trade. Man, would the Braves love a do-over on that one. How good would the Rangers be without those three?

Brian26
09-22-2012, 12:23 AM
Funny you mention those three together! All acquired in that Mark Teixeira trade. Man, would the Braves love a do-over on that one. How good would the Rangers be without those three?

That's one of the great trades of the last 20 years when you consider they also got Salty who is now with Boston.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2012, 12:25 AM
Funny you mention those three together! All acquired in that Mark Teixeira trade. Man, would the Braves love a do-over on that one. How good would the Rangers be without those three?

Seeing as how the Braves have a playoff spot all but locked up and made the playoffs two years after making the trade, I would argue it hasn't hurt them terribly. It was a terrific trade by the Rangers and an excellent job by their scouting department.

DSpivack
09-22-2012, 12:26 AM
That's one of the great trades of the last 20 years when you consider they also got Salty who is now with Boston.

It reminds me the Randy Johnson to Houston trade. Help build another team for a 3-month rental. Teams don't undervalue their prospects anymore like that.

DSpivack
09-22-2012, 12:27 AM
Seeing as how the Braves have a playoff spot all but locked up and made the playoffs two years after making the trade, I would argue it hasn't hurt them terribly. It was a terrific trade by the Rangers and an excellent job by their scouting department.

They gave up 4 good, if not great, prospects, for a 3-month rental. I'd say that's a pretty disastrous trade for Atlanta.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2012, 12:39 AM
They gave up 4 good, if not great, prospects, for a 3-month rental. I'd say that's a pretty disastrous trade for Atlanta.

That was a bad trade but it didn't destroy the future of the franchise. They were back in the playoffs within two years. Most organizations couldn't recover from a trade like that, that was my point.

DSpivack
09-22-2012, 12:45 AM
That was a bad trade but it didn't destroy the future of the franchise. They were back in the playoffs within two years. Most organizations couldn't recover from a trade like that, that was my point.

Of course not, but the Braves certainly would have had a much better last few years had they never made that trade.

Tragg
09-22-2012, 07:50 PM
but also an inability to identify and trade for young prospects in other organizations
As per nothing from Swisher 2, Jackson 2 (a pure giveaway), and so far nothing from Quentin or Santos.
Time for a change.

Frater Perdurabo
09-22-2012, 08:01 PM
As per nothing from Swisher 2, Jackson 2 (a pure giveaway), and so far nothing from Quentin or Santos.
Time for a change.

Those trades - and the free agent dollars spent to fill the holes they created - continue to hamstring this team. However, I cannot fault the Santos trade; had we not traded him he'd be on the shelf for us right now. But the Swisher and Jackson deals were disastrous.

Tragg
09-22-2012, 11:05 PM
Those trades - and the free agent dollars spent to fill the holes they created - continue to hamstring this team. However, I cannot fault the Santos trade; had we not traded him he'd be on the shelf for us right now. But the Swisher and Jackson deals were disastrous.

I didn't mind trading any of those 4 guys. I don't really know what the real objection to Quentin was though. I guess the injuries.
We just didn't get a thing for any of them. All were basically prospects off of off years and they continued to decline (except for Swisher 2 - I don't know what that was - we traded for several AAAA players - not real prospect in the bunch). Sometimes it's better to trade for younger less developed prospects with potential.
I said it before, and I'll say it again - these veterans have given it all they have this year - they are just past their prime and most of the ones who aren't aren't complete players.

Harry Chappas
09-23-2012, 12:33 AM
I seem to recall reading a thread on WSI that the board of directors was not happy with Kenny and that he would be replaced at the end of the year. That was back in March when a lot of people thought that the White Sox would be terrible.

I posted it. That's what I had heard at the time from someone with strong connections to the brass.

Frater Perdurabo
09-23-2012, 08:17 AM
I didn't mind trading any of those 4 guys. I don't really know what the real objection to Quentin was though. I guess the injuries.
We just didn't get a thing for any of them. All were basically prospects off of off years and they continued to decline (except for Swisher 2 - I don't know what that was - we traded for several AAAA players - not real prospect in the bunch). Sometimes it's better to trade for younger less developed prospects with potential.
I said it before, and I'll say it again - these veterans have given it all they have this year - they are just past their prime and most of the ones who aren't aren't complete players.

Agreed. If they had gotten useful players in return, we'd have a deeper roster today. Or of we had just kept the original players we had, we'd be deeper today.

#1swisher
10-03-2012, 01:40 PM
Jon Heyman
Rick Hahn will ascend to GM on south side. now comes hard part: what to do about peavy, a.j. & youk. http://cbsprt.co/VvbQQi (http://t.co/zadRt2xF)

DSpivack
10-03-2012, 01:44 PM
Jon Heyman
Rick Hahn will ascend to GM on south side. now comes hard part: what to do about peavy, a.j. & youk. http://cbsprt.co/VvbQQi (http://t.co/zadRt2xF)

Thanks for the link. I had been skeptical that this change would mean a lot in terms of who makes decisions, but the article states directly that Hahn would be doing that and not KW. Interesting.

hawkjt
10-03-2012, 02:52 PM
So Heyman thinks that AJ and Youk will be retained,with Jake headed to LA? Hmmm.....interesting.

Certainly, I would be ok with that scenario. Sox have no ready replacements at 3rd or catcher. Now, how much do they have left?

I think AJ can be productive for 2 more years...not so sure about Youk.

jdm2662
10-03-2012, 03:10 PM
So Heyman thinks that AJ and Youk will be retained,with Jake headed to LA? Hmmm.....interesting.

Certainly, I would be ok with that scenario. Sox have no ready replacements at 3rd or catcher. Now, how much do they have left?

I think AJ can be productive for 2 more years...not so sure about Youk.

It makes some sense. The Sox did have plenty of young arms come up this year with some success. They don't have much in terms of position players. So, they may have no choice but to keep Youk and AJ. But, a foundation is going to need to be built eventually.

MARTINMVP
10-03-2012, 03:38 PM
From today's David Haugh column:
[Tribune Link -- Requires Subscriber Login]
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-1003-haugh-white-sox-chicago--20121003,0,5533563.column"Now the primary focus is on enhancing the fan experience and looking not at our fans as to why they didn't come out as we anticipated, but at ourselves first,'' Williams said. "It's a mistake to have great expectations of how people spend their discretionary income with all the economic uncertainties. What can we do creatively to enhance the experience, more than just the baseball team, so that once again we can be aggressive with our projections and, as a result, payroll?''


Williams talking about improving the fan experience made him sound like a team president more than a general manager which he likely will be soon. Regarding reports of his promotion with Rick Hahn taking over as GM, Williams neither confirmed nor denied the moves but made clear nothing will happen until after he takes a week off to "clear my head.''

slavko
10-03-2012, 03:39 PM
So Heyman thinks that AJ and Youk will be retained,with Jake headed to LA? Hmmm.....interesting.

Certainly, I would be ok with that scenario. Sox have no ready replacements at 3rd or catcher. Now, how much do they have left?

I think AJ can be productive for 2 more years...not so sure about Youk.

I wasn't impressed with Youk after his initial couple weeks in which he practically carried the team. Too much of an injury risk, besides. Wish I had some faith in Morel. AJ and Youk are the closest we had to situational hitters. PK, when he's right, could be added to that.

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 03:53 PM
Our pitching should be set already. I say this with Peavy returning and Danks coming back as strong as Jake did this year. Our rookies with a year under their belt should be better.

Starters: Sale, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Quintana or Santiago

Middle Relief and late relief: Jones, Veal, Crain, Thornton

Closers: Reed, Myers

It looks to me like Humber is a forgotten man and I don't want to see Septimo or Liriano again.

The big decisions will be with Youk and AJ. I'm on the fence with both of them, neither is getting any younger. Love to pick up another Rios type outfielder by trading Dunn, I would then have a rotating OF with one of them being DH for each game. BJ Upton comes to mind as I'm sure the Rays won't be able to sign him.

Madvora
10-03-2012, 03:58 PM
From today's David Haugh column:
[Tribune Link -- Requires Subscriber Login]
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-1003-haugh-white-sox-chicago--20121003,0,5533563.column"Now the primary focus is on enhancing the fan experience and looking not at our fans as to why they didn't come out as we anticipated, but at ourselves first,'' Williams said. "It's a mistake to have great expectations of how people spend their discretionary income with all the economic uncertainties. What can we do creatively to enhance the experience, more than just the baseball team, so that once again we can be aggressive with our projections and, as a result, payroll?''

Nothing else matters to me. I don't want this to be Wrigley Field. I don't care if there are bars around the neighborhood or a fundamentals deck for little kids. All nice stuff to have, but focus on the team and win the damn games.

Noneck
10-03-2012, 03:59 PM
Our pitching should be set already. I say this with Peavy returning and Danks coming back as strong as Jake did this year. Our rookies with a year under their belt should be better.

Starters: Sale, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Quintana or Santiago

Middle Relief and late relief: Jones, Veal, Crain, Thornton

Closers: Reed, Myers

It looks to me like Humber is a forgotten man and I don't want to see Septimo or Liriano again.

The big decisions will be with Youk and AJ. I'm on the fence with both of them, neither is getting any younger. Love to pick up another Rios type outfielder by trading Dunn, I would then have a rotating OF with one of them being DH for each game. BJ Upton comes to mind as I'm sure the Rays won't be able to sign him.


I see the chances being extremely slim that either Peavy or Myers come back.

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 04:09 PM
I see the chances being extremely slim that either Peavy or Myers come back.

Only time will tell.
How does a buyout work, if the Sox don't pick up Jake's option and another team signs him do the Sox still have to pay the 4 million buyout?

Huisj
10-03-2012, 04:25 PM
Only time will tell.
How does a buyout work, if the Sox don't pick up Jake's option and another team signs him do the Sox still have to pay the 4 million buyout?

Yeah, the Sox have to either exercise the full $22mm option, or they do the $4mm buyout and he becomes a free agent.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
10-03-2012, 04:31 PM
Only time will tell.
How does a buyout work, if the Sox don't pick up Jake's option and another team signs him do the Sox still have to pay the 4 million buyout?

The Sox can either pick up his option and pay him the amount of the contract and keep him for the duration, or they can buy out the contract, after which he becomes a FA.

So, it's basically like an "early termination fee".

Nellie_Fox
10-03-2012, 04:43 PM
I see the chances being extremely slim that either Peavy or Myers come back.I'd like to have Peavy back if possible, but Myers I won't miss.

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 04:48 PM
Nothing else matters to me. I don't want this to be Wrigley Field. I don't care if there are bars around the neighborhood or a fundamentals deck for little kids. All nice stuff to have, but focus on the team and win the damn games.

I've never gone to a game to see sausages running around the ballpark or races on the scoreboard. I go hoping to see a White Sox win in a clean ballpark. That being said we had a first place team for most of the year and the fans did not come out and support the team, there is only one answer, the ticket and parking prices are too damn much and lets hope that the Sox braintrust come to the same conclusion.

Nellie_Fox
10-03-2012, 04:51 PM
I've never gone to a game to see sausages running around the ballpark or races on the scoreboard. I go hoping to see a White Sox win in a clean ballpark. That being said we had a first place team for most of the year and the fans did not come out and support the team, there is only one answer, the ticket and parking prices are too damn much and lets hope that the Sox braintrust come to the same conclusion.That you'll have to take up with the City of Chicago, unless you expect the White Sox to lose money on every car by paying the tax themselves.

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 04:54 PM
That you'll have to take up with the City of Chicago, unless you expect the White Sox to lose money on every car by paying the tax themselves.

How much is the tax that it costs 25 bucks to park?

doublem23
10-03-2012, 05:05 PM
That you'll have to take up with the City of Chicago, unless you expect the White Sox to lose money on every car by paying the tax themselves.

How much is the tax that it costs 25 bucks to park?

City tax is $5 on weekdays and $3 on weekends. This leaves each car having paid $20 less Chicago city taxes.

I'd suspect there's probably some state and county taxes in there, too, but their websites, unlike the city's, were apparently designed by jackasses and are not very user friendly.

Nellie_Fox
10-03-2012, 05:06 PM
How much is the tax that it costs 25 bucks to park?
Well, I just researched it, and it turns out that what Rongey said on the radio is wrong. He said the tax was $20. Turns out the tax is $5 per car on weekdays, $3 on weekends, so the Sox are charging $20 regardless of day, and the rest is tax (parking is $25 on weekdays and $23 on weekends.)

So, they could lower it without losing money. Statement withdrawn.

Noneck
10-03-2012, 05:08 PM
How much is the tax that it costs 25 bucks to park?


Probably no more than 5 bucks and with the red line shutting down, I'd imagine it will be 30 bucks next year to park.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
10-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Probably no more than 8 bucks and with the red line shutting down, I'd imagine it will be 30 bucks next year to park.

There's still the Metra line.

getonbckthr
10-03-2012, 05:12 PM
When everyone compares the Sox to Texas please remember, even though it has paid off, traded for Hamilton which is a risk I wouldn't want the Sox to take.

SaltyPretzel
10-03-2012, 05:12 PM
From today's David Haugh column:
[Tribune Link -- Requires Subscriber Login]
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-1003-haugh-white-sox-chicago--20121003,0,5533563.column"Now the primary focus is on enhancing the fan experience and looking not at our fans as to why they didn't come out as we anticipated, but at ourselves first,'' Williams said.


Nice to hear him say that.

eriqjaffe
10-03-2012, 05:14 PM
There's still the Metra line.Which is fine if you live in the south suburbs. For the rest of us, there's the green line, which is only another couple blocks. IIRC, the red line trains are going to be run on those tracks next year, so it won't be impossible. I'm not sure if the Bronzeville/IIT station is big enough to handle the post-game crush, though.

doublem23
10-03-2012, 05:15 PM
Probably no more than 5 bucks and with the red line shutting down, I'd imagine it will be 30 bucks next year to park.

The Red Line is not being shut down, it is being rerouted to the Green Line tracks south of Roosevelt. Anybody unfamiliar with the CTA can still catch the train where they always have and everyone else even slightly savvy with public transportation in Chicago is undoubtedly already aware of Bronzeville-IIT-35th

Noneck
10-03-2012, 05:16 PM
There's still the Metra line.


Tough sell considering the Sox conveniently dont advertise that option much and neither does metra. People coming from the north would have to pay twice, cta and metra to get to park and then there is the scheduling issue.

Im thinking the Sox will take advantage of next years opportunity.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
10-03-2012, 05:18 PM
Tough sell considering the Sox conveniently dont advertise that option much and neither does metra. People coming from the north would have to pay twice, cta and metra to get to park and then there is the scheduling issue.

Im thinking the Sox will take advantage of next years opportunity.

As doub and eriq said, though, the Red Line is just being re-routed. It's not shutting down. It'll stop at IIT-Bronzeville, which is maybe an extra 2-block walk or so from Sox-35th.

Noneck
10-03-2012, 05:19 PM
The Red Line is not being shut down, it is being rerouted to the Green Line tracks south of Roosevelt. Anybody unfamiliar with the CTA can still catch the train where they always have and everyone else even slightly savvy with public transportation in Chicago is undoubtedly already aware of Bronzeville-IIT-35th


Yes we know but most dont and being dropped off east of the ryan is very scarey for many unknowing fans.

DSpivack
10-03-2012, 05:20 PM
Yes we know but most dont and being dropped off east of the ryan is very scarey for many unknowing fans.

If so, the Sox will have to market that option and make it known of the Green Line option.

As for the ignorance about the neighborhood, I think the Sox have done a terrible job at countering those myths and stereotypes over the years. I hear that crap from people who otherwise know little about the team and may have never even been to a Sox game, or Chicago in general.

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 05:20 PM
Yes we know but most dont and being dropped off east of the ryan is very scarey for many unknowing fans.

Made that walk many, many times before the Dan Ryan was built.

Noneck
10-03-2012, 05:23 PM
Made that walk many, many times before the Dan Ryan was built.


Yea I did also and it was a little dicey back then.

ChiSoxGal85
10-03-2012, 05:25 PM
If they raise parking fees next season, I'll be going to less games. Cost is a big factor for me.

I could care less about fun stuff at the park. Good food for a decent price to accompany a competitive team on the field is enough for me. But we're all individuals and we want different things when we go out and spend our money. I would understand and welcome it if the Sox try some things out at the Cell to increase interest in the team and diversify the fan base. Even if I don't care about in-game entertainment or whatever else they come up with.

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 05:30 PM
Yea I did also and it was a little dicey back then.

In 1962 I had to do the walk after the fans were all gone as my buddy and I were vendors that year and we had to bank out and collect our commission money.

SoxSpeed22
10-03-2012, 05:33 PM
I'd like to have Peavy back if possible, but Myers I won't miss.I think Peavy might be out of our price range, even though I would also like to have him back.
As for Myers, I don't think losing him will be that big of an issue. However, I could see Crain and Thornton getting traded so maybe adding a few more bullpen arms wouldn't hurt.

russ99
10-03-2012, 05:35 PM
If so, the Sox will have to market that option and make it known of the Green Line option.

As for the ignorance about the neighborhood, I think the Sox have done a terrible job at countering those myths and stereotypes over the years. I hear that crap from people who otherwise know little about the team and may have never even been to a Sox game, or Chicago in general.

LOL. What, past the scary Starbucks or the scary popcorn shop? Plus the area is crawling with cops.

This whole "is the neighborhood safe" deal is so overblown, it's ridiculous.

BTW: Me and my friends took the CTA train from 35th to 95th street and waited for the bus outside the 95th station all the time back in the 70's and 80s, with no issues.

Noneck
10-03-2012, 05:35 PM
In 1962 I had to do the walk after the fans were all gone as my buddy and I were vendors that year and we had to bank out and collect our commission money.


Thats good at least you had money in your pockets. I remember making that walk with my dad and him saying, All I have is car fare so if we get stuck up , Im giving them you.

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 05:38 PM
Thats good at least you had money in your pockets. I remember making that walk with my dad and him saying, All I have is car fare so if we get stuck up , Im giving them you.

:rolling:

slavko
10-03-2012, 05:45 PM
Thats good at least you had money in your pockets. I remember making that walk with my dad and him saying, All I have is car fare so if we get stuck up , Im giving them you.

I think I like your dad. :D: I've made that walk more than the one from the Ryan. The automobile took over at a certain age. Walk past IIT, gotta try it, just for nostalgia's sake. Every time I drive in that way it's crawling with cops.

harwar
10-03-2012, 06:06 PM
During the mid and late 60's, we used to ride our bikes from Archer and Ashland to the ballpark 2 or 3 times a week during the summer .. nice memories .. when i was 12, my buddy and i got stranded at Wrigley Field and had to walk all the way home .. that was an interesting walk ..

LITTLE NELL
10-03-2012, 06:31 PM
During the mid and late 60's, we used to ride our bikes from Archer and Ashland to the ballpark 2 or 3 times a week during the summer .. nice memories .. when i was 12, my buddy and i got stranded at Wrigley Field and had to walk all the way home .. that was an interesting walk ..

We walked home a few times from Wrigley and also from Riverview but lived at 6700 north, that walk you had was something else, what route did you take, west on Addison to Ashland and then south the rest of the way?

harwar
10-03-2012, 06:47 PM
We walked home a few times from Wrigley and also from Riverview but lived at 6700 north, that walk you had was something else, what route did you take, west on Addison to Ashland and then south the rest of the way?

Yea, we had bus fair but, but like dopes, we spent it on the concessions .. and yes, we went down Ashland, it was the only way we knew to go .. we got chased a couple of times and i think that we ran most of the way haha .. had some stories to tell when we got home

Mr. Jinx
10-03-2012, 09:22 PM
LOL. What, past the scary Starbucks or the scary popcorn shop? Plus the area is crawling with cops.

This whole "is the neighborhood safe" deal is so overblown, it's ridiculous.

BTW: Me and my friends took the CTA train from 35th to 95th street and waited for the bus outside the 95th station all the time back in the 70's and 80s, with no issues.

I think that's kind of the point though. Although many of us on the board know the area is safe, that really isn't the issue. It is the masses of casual fans who are scared and nothing is done by the Sox to attempt to dispel those myths. I know a decent number of friends/coworkers that are casual baseball (and not necessarily Sox) fans that assume you'll get shot the moment you walk east of the red line or west under the viaduct.

Nellie_Fox
10-04-2012, 01:05 AM
Thats good at least you had money in your pockets. I remember making that walk with my dad and him saying, All I have is car fare so if we get stuck up , Im giving them you.I also remember making that walk with my dad, but he was an off-duty cop, so he was armed.

Tragg
10-04-2012, 01:30 AM
I'd like to have Peavy back if possible, but Myers I won't miss.

Agree.
Myers is utterly replaceable.