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View Full Version : *Official* 9-7 Walk into Trouble; KC 7 SOX 5 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
09-07-2012, 10:12 PM
What a pathetic loss.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:12 PM
Hey Robin, The Royals and Tigers have something for you:

http://hcoey.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/thankyoucake.jpg

Blueprint1
09-07-2012, 10:13 PM
This team is bad right now. If we have any chance at the post season we need to change things fast.

GlassSox
09-07-2012, 10:13 PM
Disgusting :angry:

guillensdisciple
09-07-2012, 10:13 PM
The yankees have this big of a payroll for a reason, saw this coming.

25 games left sox, maybe playing a couple of games over .500 will do you well? Just saying.

RadioheadRocks
09-07-2012, 10:13 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSz0bqtvBs9jv-VUJhGQiUaI_vFDCBc_hdLMtOwcwBSUftebp8G

"This team needs an enema"

Hitmen77
09-07-2012, 10:13 PM
I have a feeling this is a going to be a LONG 7 game stretch vs. the Royals and Tigers.

The Sox can't beat either team.

guillensdisciple
09-07-2012, 10:14 PM
I have a feeling this is a going to be a LONG 7 game stretch vs. the Royals and Tigers.

The Sox can't beat either team.

If it will be, this season is done.

Tragg
09-07-2012, 10:14 PM
Bunting
Order an automatic out and leave it up to Beckham.
Good lord.
And if you could think 2 moves in advance, it was obvious what would happen if Beckham couldn't drive them in - leave it up to the AAAA player who, for some reason, we decided to award the 2nd most at bats tonight.
Maybe it was a bunt for a hit - I hope so.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:14 PM
Oh yeah, the September rallying cry continues: GO TIGERS' OPPONENT!

ChiSoxGal85
09-07-2012, 10:15 PM
An easily winnable game given away. Can't score with RISP, giving up walks, bunting in weird spots, closer can't keep the ball in the park. That pretty much sucked. :angry:

Go Angels.

Patrick134
09-07-2012, 10:15 PM
Great AB by Johnson there. He got completely hosed on that strike 3 call.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:15 PM
Terrible loss. Huge holes like Beckham and Reed caught up to them.

Frater Perdurabo
09-07-2012, 10:15 PM
As I said in the Game Thread, I've been quite patient with the bullpen management this year. I think Cooper and Ventura generally have done well given all the injuries and the generally ineffectiveness of so many pitchers.

Nevertheless, I find it inexplicable that they would bring Reed into pitch the top of the ninth in a tie game at home. Reed is terrible in non-save situations, and the bullpen was both rested and has a surplus of arms to use. There is no reason, none, to use the closer in that situation.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:16 PM
Oh yeah, the September rallying cry continues: GO TIGERS' OPPONENT!

That is growing tiresome. They will start beating teams besides the Sox soon.

Brian26
09-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Fire Jose Lopez.

tstrike2000
09-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Nice that we had a couple of comebacks, but some poor baseball all the way around. Too many walks (as usual), poor managing, and Gordon Beckham attempting to hit.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:18 PM
Bunting
Order an automatic out and leave it up to Beckham.
Good lord.
And if you could think 2 moves in advance, it was obvious what would happen if Beckham couldn't drive them in - leave it up to the AAAA player who, for some reason, we decided to award the 2nd most at bats tonight.
Maybe it was a bunt for a hit - I hope so.

I like bunting in that situation normally but not with Beckham coming up. I did think it looked like he bunted on his own as I didn't see him look down to third. Either way, we have been struggling to bring runners in for about a month now. It's going to be a long month with a lot of ups and downs.

Soxman219
09-07-2012, 10:18 PM
That's six straight losses to KC. Wow. I never thought I'd see the day.

cv sox fan
09-07-2012, 10:18 PM
stick a fork in them Robin there done! What a pathetic game there get up and go got up and went

voodoochile
09-07-2012, 10:18 PM
Lopez in the two hole is a bad idea... Gotta start hitting with runners in scoring position again. Right now this team just is scuffling every which way. Very frustrating to watch.

Boondock Saint
09-07-2012, 10:19 PM
Stupid, hideous, pathetic, butt-ugly mind-numbingly frustrating game.

Watching that game was a special kind of hell. Pitchers, hitters and the manager all choked away chances to win this game repeatedly. I would have preferred it for Liriano to have given up 10 in the first so I could have turned off that crapfest earlier.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:19 PM
Anyone who didn't foresee September follies was delusional. That much inexperience in the BP and manager's chair will cost you.

You just have to hope the Tigers continue to underperform.

Boondock Saint
09-07-2012, 10:21 PM
Anyone who didn't foresee September follies was delusional. That much inexperience in the BP and manager's chair will cost you.

You just have to hope the Tigers continue to underperform.

It's not just the young guys screwing up.

happydude
09-07-2012, 10:21 PM
That's six straight losses to KC. Wow. I never thought I'd see the day.

Hasn't happened since 1982 and, then, KC was an American League powerhouse so it was understandable. Now its just mindboggling.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:21 PM
I blame Youk for being too fertile.

guillensdisciple
09-07-2012, 10:21 PM
Gotta say, if we make the playoffs that first round sweep will be oh so sweet.

billyvsox
09-07-2012, 10:22 PM
Oh yeah, the September rallying cry continues: GO TIGERS' OPPONENT!

The pitching matchups are horrible in LA this weekend. Santana stinks, Weaver skipping his start, Verlander gets a fill in. Wouldnt be suprised if Tigers sweep the Laaaaaaaaaaa Angels

JB98
09-07-2012, 10:22 PM
Just a bad loss. I hate Ozzie Ball. No reason to bunt Ramirez in the eighth to give RBI opportunities to weaker hitters.

Aside from Thornton's nice eighth inning, pitching stunk tonight.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:22 PM
Anyone who didn't foresee September follies was delusional. That much inexperience in the BP and manager's chair will cost you.

You just have to hope the Tigers continue to underperform.

Honestly the only reason that anyone could have suspected there would be a September collapse would be because of the innings of our starters. Even though we have a lot of rookies in our pen we also have Crain, Thornton and Myers for the late innings and Reed has looked fairly impressive most of the year.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:23 PM
It's not just the young guys screwing up.

True, but playoff chases are defined by close games. Close games are defined by managers, bullpens, and clutch hitting. All of which Detroit has in spades over the Sox. Not to mention the extra innings the young rookies in the rotation are seeing.

Also, lets not let Liriano off the the hook. God damn, he sure is Francisco Liriano.

russ99
09-07-2012, 10:23 PM
Badly coached and executed game tonight. Maybe one of our relievers could actually hold a lead... I'm more upset with that that the lack of a killer instinct at the plate and the awful bunt call with two poor situational hitters coming up. As I said I the game thread, a squeeze would probably been the only way that run comes in.

Now we have Cy Chen going against us tomorrow. Robin: maybe it would help to bench your crappy hitters tomorrow and spare us a few 0-4's. Wise can pitch, can he play 2B? (teal?)

CoopaLoop
09-07-2012, 10:24 PM
I blame Youk for being too fertile.

http://www.gifcrap.com/d/2037-1/Nicolas+Cage+trying+not+to+laugh.gif

WisSoxFan
09-07-2012, 10:25 PM
I'm half in the bag. I'm pissed off. This team sucks right now. ****.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:25 PM
I blame Youk for being too fertile.

True story: His wife wasn't pregnant until he got that 'stache.

CHISOXFAN13
09-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Ramirez hits a bomb in the sixth and lays down a sacrifice in his next at-bat.

Garbage.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Now we have Cy Chen going against us tomorrow. Robin: maybe it would help to bench your crappy hitters tomorrow and spare us a few 0-4's. Wise can pitch, can he play 2B? (teal?)

Sale needs to be a big time stopper tomorrow. Chen needs to get hit by a bus tonight.

RadioheadRocks
09-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Gotta say, if we make the playoffs that first round sweep will be oh so sweet.


Unless this team gets its **** together, if by some miracle it makes the playoffs most likely they'll be on the down side of that first round sweep.

guillensdisciple
09-07-2012, 10:27 PM
Unless this team gets its **** together, if by some miracle it makes the playoffs most likely they'll be on the down side of that first round sweep.

Trust me, I meant exactly that.

russ99
09-07-2012, 10:28 PM
Honestly the only reason that anyone could have suspected there would be a September collapse would be because of the innings of our starters. Even though we have a lot of rookies in our pen we also have Crain, Thornton and Myers for the late innings and Reed has looked fairly impressive most of the year.

Also the extra at bats on our regular hitters because Robin ran out the same lineup every day and didn't use his bench much the first 3 months.
Would Dunn have helped tonight? Maybe... Had Dunn, Konerko and Youk had more frequent days off earlier, would they be so worn down now? Maybe not.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:29 PM
Gotta say, if we make the playoffs that first round sweep will be oh so sweet.

Unless we go on some sort of crazy hot streak, I don't see us doing much damage in the playoffs. It's not just the maddeningly inconsistent offense but our staff looks pretty gassed. Only Peavy and Floyd have ever wracked up more than 200 innings and that was a long time ago.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:29 PM
Ramirez hits a bomb in the sixth and lays down a sacrifice in his next at-bat.

Garbage.

I have no problem with the sacrifice there. Doing with Beckham and Lopez as 2 of next 3 hitters is what's no good.

voodoochile
09-07-2012, 10:30 PM
Unless this team gets its **** together, if by some miracle it makes the playoffs most likely they'll be on the down side of that first round sweep.

Yeah but think of the fun you're gonna have the day they clinch the playoff spot. Everything after that would be gravy. Heck we're kind of into gravy territory now given what most of us expected this year.

Noneck
09-07-2012, 10:30 PM
Ramirez hits a bomb in the sixth and lays down a sacrifice in his next at-bat.



When I saw Ramirez lay one down, I wasnt pleased but figured it was for Dunn. But for Beckham? No good.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:31 PM
I have no problem with the sacrifice there. Doing with Beckham and Lopez as 2 of next 3 hitters is what's no good.

Agreed. It's not a bad move if you pinch hit for Beckham.

voodoochile
09-07-2012, 10:31 PM
I have no problem with the sacrifice there. Doing with Beckham and Lopez as 2 of next 3 hitters is what's no good.

Yeah given the success Hudson has been having since he came back and given the fact there was a RHP on the mound, not hitting him for one of those two was a mistake. Lopez looked overmatched all night long.

CHISOXFAN13
09-07-2012, 10:32 PM
I have no problem with the sacrifice there. Doing with Beckham and Lopez as 2 of next 3 hitters is what's no good.

That's what I mean. You take the bat out of the hands of a much better hitter.

RadioheadRocks
09-07-2012, 10:32 PM
Yeah but think of the fun you're gonna have the day they clinch the playoff spot. Everything after that would be gravy. Heck we're kind of into gravy territory now given what most of us expected this year.


Be that as it may, a sugar-coated turd is still a turd.

Brian26
09-07-2012, 10:32 PM
Honestly the only reason that anyone could have suspected there would be a September collapse would be because of the innings of our starters. Even though we have a lot of rookies in our pen we also have Crain, Thornton and Myers for the late innings and Reed has looked fairly impressive most of the year.

Agree with you except for Crain. I have no faith in him right now. Watch his pitches - he's got no movement and is basically a one-pitch pitcher. He got hit hard all over the field tonight but was lucky there were fielders there to catch them.

Thornton's had a little breather and looks better now.

tstrike2000
09-07-2012, 10:32 PM
Badly coached and executed game tonight. Maybe one of our relievers could actually hold a lead... I'm more upset with that that the lack of a killer instinct at the plate and the awful bunt call with two poor situational hitters coming up. As I said I the game thread, a squeeze would probably been the only way that run comes in.

Now we have Cy Chen going against us tomorrow. Robin: maybe it would help to bench your crappy hitters tomorrow and spare us a few 0-4's. Wise can pitch, can he play 2B? (teal?)

Bench Beckham and Lopez and play pretty much anyone else, at this point I don't care who. Play Hudson, who cares what his average is, can't be any worse and at least bats lefthanded.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:33 PM
Also the extra at bats on our regular hitters because Robin ran out the same lineup every day and didn't use his bench much the first 3 months.
Would Dunn have helped tonight? Maybe... Had Dunn, Konerko and Youk had more frequent days off earlier, would they be so worn down now? Maybe not.

I really don't think that that is the case. Konerko is on pace to play as many games as he has in the past two years, Youkilis has been given a lot of days off and Dunn didn't really have anything wrong with him physically until this oblique strain. Konerko has been banged up all year, Youkilis is on his last legs it seems like and Dunn is what he is. I don't think there is anything Robin could have done differently with his lineup to result in more wins. The roster is thin and he's gotten the most out of it that he can, the flaws that this team has always had are starting to expose themselves.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:34 PM
That's what I mean. You take the bat out of the hands of a much better hitter.

I agree, had Beckham bunted those two guys over with De Aza and anyone but Lopez up next I wouldn't have objected.

voodoochile
09-07-2012, 10:35 PM
Be that as it may, a sugar-coated turd is still a turd.

A day of happiness like that you can call it what you want. It's still priceless. It's part of why we watch. However this season ends, you can't tell me you haven't had fun this summer, more so given the low expectations. Yeah, right now things are frustrating, but we're still in it and that's still cool.

thomas35forever
09-07-2012, 10:36 PM
Do they even want this thing? The offense is regressing back to what it's been the last few years. Whatever the reason for it, it's not very good.

voodoochile
09-07-2012, 10:36 PM
Bench Beckham and Lopez and play pretty much anyone else, at this point I don't care who. Play Hudson, who cares what his average is, can't be any worse and at least bats lefthanded.
Becham saved at least one run with his glove tonight and was just the PTC the other day.

russ99
09-07-2012, 10:37 PM
I agree, had Beckham bunted those two guys over with De Aza and anyone but Lopez up next I wouldn't have objected.

Agree. A tie game late with no outs and first and second is the perfect time to sac bunt as a single could give you a 2 run lead. But only if you have guys coming up or being pinch hit who can succeed in that situation. That was setting up bad hitters up to fail.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:38 PM
Do they even want this thing? The offense is regressing back to what it's been the last few years. Whatever the reason for it, it's not very good.

That's silly. Of course they do. The problem is the starting staff is running out of gas, the bullpen and offense have been inconsistent all year long and the roster is thin. Desire has little to do with it. Talent on the other hand has plenty.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 10:38 PM
Sox are now 8-20 against KC and DET this year.

Blarg

Tragg
09-07-2012, 10:38 PM
Agreed. It's not a bad move if you pinch hit for Beckham.

Except that any way you slice it it was going to take the bat out of at least Alexei's hands and, if failed, De Aza's hands. I'd rather those 2 hitting than these Charlotte pinch hitters.
B 8 in a tie game isn't theoretically a bad spot to bunt.
But in this situation, it was inane. Just not thinking beyond the bunt itself.
We can't have this naive strategy in a pennant race.

rainbow6
09-07-2012, 10:39 PM
If this team does not have someone to pinch hit for Beckham in late inning situations he has no place on this team. I'm hard pressed to recall how many slick fielding middle infielders hitting. 220 earned the right to never be pinch hit for.

JB98
09-07-2012, 10:39 PM
Do they even want this thing? The offense is regressing back to what it's been the last few years. Whatever the reason for it, it's not very good.

Of course they do. But wanting it doesn't mean anything if you can't execute.

The offense hasn't been great, but there were five runs up on the board tonight. That's enough to win with average pitching. Yeah, they should have scored more, but five runs wins a fair number of games.

tstrike2000
09-07-2012, 10:39 PM
Becham saved at least one run with his glove tonight and was just the PTC the other day.

Nobody's questioning his glove. It's his .232 avg, .285 OBP and inability to catch up to a good MLB fastball that drive you crazy.

RadioheadRocks
09-07-2012, 10:40 PM
Do they even want this thing? The offense is regressing back to what it's been the last few years. Whatever the reason for it, it's not very good.

This is what pisses me off more than anything. The division is theirs for the taking, but the way they've played the last two weeks you wouldn't know it. I wish I could say I'm optimistic about the post-season, but unless someone opens up a can of whoop-ass I'm afraid it's not going to be pretty. Somehow I don't see much success if this team ends up backing up into the playoffs.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:40 PM
Becham saved at least one run with his glove tonight and was just the PTC the other day.

Over the past two weeks Beckham is hitting .280 and has made some adjustments to his swing that is starting to pay off (I think). He is also the best defensive second baseman in the league, I think you have to keep him out there. He was overmatched tonight in his last AB by a guy who was throwing near 100. Lots of guys will look overmatched there but given Beckham's struggles with the high fastball all year long and the situation it was magnified.

Frontman
09-07-2012, 10:42 PM
This one stung. Can the Sox give up on the half-way to Saint Patrick's Day game already? It seems like they never win that night!!!

This team needs to rally soon. If they don't get it done this year, I see a blow up the team during the off season!!!

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:42 PM
Except that any way you slice it it was going to take the bat out of at least Alexei's hands and, if failed, De Aza's hands. I'd rather those 2 hitting than these Charlotte pinch hitters.
B 8 in a tie game isn't theoretically a bad spot to bunt.
But in this situation, it was inane. Just not thinking beyond the bunt itself.
We can't have this naive strategy in a pennant race.

I kind of wondered if Alexei was bunting on his own there. I didn't see him look down to third for a sign. I also wonder if maybe he was bunting for a hit as well.

Tragg
09-07-2012, 10:42 PM
If this team does not have someone to pinch hit for Beckham in late inning situations he has no place on this team. I'm hard pressed to recall how many slick fielding middle infielders hitting. 220 earned the right to never be pinch hit for.
Or, get a good pinch hitter and keep the young glove man.
That's been a flaw in this roster all year - no bench bat at all. Now we're pinch hitting with these AAAA charlotte players.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:42 PM
Except that any way you slice it it was going to take the bat out of at least Alexei's hands and, if failed, De Aza's hands. I'd rather those 2 hitting than these Charlotte pinch hitters.
B 8 in a tie game isn't theoretically a bad spot to bunt.
But in this situation, it was inane. Not thinking beyond the bunt itself.

You have a point. The Sox have some players that contribute as much as a typical bench player. I wouldn't stake the game on them. Beckham has a .3 WAR and Viciedo has a 0 WAR. Both are under .300 in OBP. Neither belong in the starting lineup of a team that's in a pennant race.

Noneck
09-07-2012, 10:43 PM
If this team does not have someone to pinch hit for Beckham in late inning situations he has no place on this team. I'm hard pressed to recall how many slick fielding middle infielders hitting. 220 earned the right to never be pinch hit for.

In this case its a poor bench filled with one has ben and the rest career AAA players.

CoopaLoop
09-07-2012, 10:44 PM
Over the past two weeks Beckham is hitting .280 and has made some adjustments to his swing that is starting to pay off (I think). He is also the best defensive second baseman in the league, I think you have to keep him out there. He was overmatched tonight in his last AB by a guy who was throwing near 100. Lots of guys will look overmatched there but given Beckham's struggles with the high fastball all year long and the situation it was magnified.

There is a major problem when you post hitting .280 over two weeks like it some sort of achievement.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:44 PM
You have a point. The Sox have some players that contribute as much as a typical bench player. I wouldn't stake the game on them. Beckham has a .3 WAR and Viciedo has a 0 WAR. Both are under .300 in OBP. Neither belong in the starting lineup of a team that's in a pennant race.

I would argue that Beckham's defense (and the fact that his offensive numbers are about par for the course for your average big league second baseman) would allow him to stay in the lineup. Viciedo has certainly shown flashes of brilliance but not much consistency. It's hard to have both guys in the lineup at this stage but what the hell else can you do? Who would you rather see out there?

Tragg
09-07-2012, 10:45 PM
You have a point. The Sox have some players that contribute as much as a typical bench player. I wouldn't stake the game on them. Beckham has a .3 WAR and Viciedo has a 0 WAR. Both are under .300 in OBP. Neither belong in the starting lineup of a team that's in a pennant race.

But the reality is they're the best we have.
I will accept that.
What I can't accept is bypassing superior hitters, to put the bat in their, or AAAA players hands. (it's not like these Charlotte hitters are promising prospects coming off of good AAA seasons; they're the usual bad-veteran fodder we've had around this organization for a decade).

DickAllen72
09-07-2012, 10:45 PM
Stupid green uniforms.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:46 PM
There is a major problem when you post hitting .280 over two weeks like it some sort of achievement.

My point was he has been hitting better. He has changed his swing and is driving the ball more consistently now. I also don't think there is anyone on the roster who is much better than he is right now that can play second as well as he can.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:46 PM
But the reality is they're the best we have.
I will accept that.
What I can't accept is bypassing superior hitters, to put the bat in their, or AAAA players hands. (it's not like these Charlotte hitters are promising prospects coming off of good AAA seasons; they're the usual bad-veteran fodder we've had around this organization for a decade).

I would have an outfield of De Aza, Wise and Rios. There isn't much we can do at second.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 10:51 PM
I would have an outfield of De Aza, Wise and Rios. There isn't much we can do at second.

That might make sense as Wise in left would be better than Viciedo out there so I suppose it could save you some runs but I think offensively Wise will be exposed as much as Dayan is.

LoveYourSuit
09-07-2012, 10:53 PM
The one thing all summer you felt was a pretty sure lock to the end is failing big time. The starting pitching. That was the only thing we could say I would have put up against anyone when you had Sale going at a CY Young pace, Peavy pitching his heart out every start with no wins to show, Quintana the same, and Liriano as this Wild Card Kenny got who could make line-ups looks foolish any night with his stuff. Floyd as your number 5, I'll take it.


Now you have Peavy, what appears to be a limping (fragile/fatigue) Sale, and a bunch of crap after that. So one starter you can hand the ball who will give you 8 innings if you need them.


Don't count on the rest of the team.
- Crappy young closer
- young bullpen with a few veterans who can no longer dominate
- a line up full of holes with 3 guys with OBP% below .300. Below .300, 3 guys! My god!
- Your best power hitter is barely hitting .200 and breaking strikeout records
- Your best average hitter is your 4 hitter who can longer hit the ball out of the park.


As much as I want to rip Robin on the dargest night of the season for me, I can't do it. Robin has managed a miracle of a season with this crap.


There is only one way the Sox will win this division. That's if the starting pitching comes back to what they were. Only way. Win games 3-1, 4-2, or 2-1. Going 6-7 innings quality innings each night.

If not, put a fork in it.

The Immigrant
09-07-2012, 10:53 PM
**** Liriano. Every time the offense scored a run, he gave it right back. Cain's first HR was one of the hardest hit balls I've ever seen in person.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:54 PM
I would argue that Beckham's defense (and the fact that his offensive numbers are about par for the course for your average big league second baseman) would allow him to stay in the lineup. Viciedo has certainly shown flashes of brilliance but not much consistency. It's hard to have both guys in the lineup at this stage but what the hell else can you do? Who would you rather see out there?

Beckham is 10th in WAR amongst the 11 AL second baseman who have at least 400 PAs.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:55 PM
That might make sense as Wise in left would be better than Viciedo out there so I suppose it could save you some runs but I think offensively Wise will be exposed as much as Dayan is.

I suppose that the difference wouldn't be much.

LoveYourSuit
09-07-2012, 10:58 PM
Beckham is 10th in WAR amongst the 11 AL second baseman who have at least 400 PAs.


Which debunks the myth that his glove brings any value to this team.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:58 PM
- Crappy young closer
- young bullpen with a few veterans who can no longer dominate
- a line up full of holes with 3 guys with OBP% below .300. Below .300, 3 guys! My god!
- Your best power hitter is barely hitting .200 and breaking strikeout records
- Your best average hitter is your 4 hitter who can longer hit the ball out of the park.



:(: Ouch. Sad but true.

DoItForDanPasqua
09-07-2012, 10:59 PM
Which debunks the myth that his glove brings any value to this team.

He is never in the top five for range factor amongst second baseman.

WhiteSox5187
09-07-2012, 11:02 PM
I suppose that the difference wouldn't be much.

The one thing offensively it might do is provide a bit more speed in the lineup and maybe allow you to play a bit more small ball rather than sitting back and waiting for big hits or to string together some hits to score runs. But that's about it. I suspect that over a month he and Viciedo would put up similar offensive numbers with Dayan having a higher slugging percentage and Wise having a bit higher of a batting average. I don't know. Might be worth a shot, plus if Dunn is out you can always DH Viciedo.

LoveYourSuit
09-07-2012, 11:06 PM
He is never in the top five for range factor amongst second baseman.


I will say, he does play a solid 2B. But in my lifetime watching baseball I have never accepted the excuse of a guy being all glove below medicore stick. People like to hang their hat on his power numbers. Check his home/road splits. Those numbers are inflated because of US Cellular field.

A guy with his lack of power has no excuse to be sporting an OBP% of .287. That's insulting.

slavko
09-07-2012, 11:06 PM
Beckham is 10th in WAR amongst the 11 AL second baseman who have at least 400 PAs.

Beckham's a halo guy. In the eyes of some of us, he can do no wrong, is always just about to turn the corner, has some cherry-picked stats to back it up.

What my eyeballs tell me is that this has been going on since August of 2009 and isn't going to change. Just because he has an occasional good game doesn't mean he's going to turn any corners and become what you think he is. Someday soon, a kid is going to take his job and he'll be traded away.

LoveYourSuit
09-07-2012, 11:13 PM
Beckham's a halo guy. In the eyes of some of us, he can do no wrong, is always just about to turn the corner, has some cherry-picked stats to back it up.

What my eyeballs tell me is that this has been going on since August of 2009 and isn't going to change. Just because he has an occasional good game doesn't mean he's going to turn any corners and become what you think he is. Someday soon, a kid is going to take his job and he'll be traded away.


OMG. I'm so glad you said this. I honestly don't get it. I don't know if it's the sound of the name, the hair, the crappy walk up music, or what. The guy has captured a place in White Sox fan hearts like not other guy I have seen. Aaron Rowand very close, but Aaron had one good season and won a World Series.

guillensdisciple
09-07-2012, 11:14 PM
Beckham's a halo guy. In the eyes of some of us, he can do no wrong, is always just about to turn the corner, has some cherry-picked stats to back it up.

What my eyeballs tell me is that this has been going on since August of 2009 and isn't going to change. Just because he has an occasional good game doesn't mean he's going to turn any corners and become what you think he is. Someday soon, a kid is going to take his job and he'll be traded away.

As I have been saying, white sox fans have an infatuation with him aka Brian Anderson.

TaylorStSox
09-07-2012, 11:15 PM
I hate Gordon Beckham. That's all I got.

guillensdisciple
09-07-2012, 11:16 PM
I hate Gordon Beckham. That's all I got.

Have not liked him since 2010, but people want to hold on to this guy when they were easy to pile
On alexei earlier for a cold stretch.

LoveYourSuit
09-07-2012, 11:19 PM
As I have been saying, white sox fans have an infatuation with him aka Brian Anderson.


I never cared for Brian Anderson because when a guy sucks he sucks.

But to be fair, Brian Anderson was not given 3 years to suck this bad to finally say let's move on. I'm saying 3 years and quite frankly I hear of no plan to avoid giving him a 4th.

SBSoxFan
09-07-2012, 11:22 PM
Over the past two weeks Beckham is hitting .280 and has made some adjustments to his swing that is starting to pay off (I think). He is also the best defensive second baseman in the league, I think you have to keep him out there. He was overmatched tonight in his last AB by a guy who was throwing near 100. Lots of guys will look overmatched there but given Beckham's struggles with the high fastball all year long and the situation it was magnified.

I don't think the first pitch --- fastball right down the middle of the plate --- was near 100. What was he waiting for? That was the best pitch he could have hit in the at bat. Lopez did the same thing --- watched a fastball go right down the middle of the plate, then swung at a pitch on his hands. :angry:

TaylorStSox
09-07-2012, 11:23 PM
This Gordon Beckham best second basemen EVAR! crap is getting out of hand. He's solid, sucks up everything that he gets to and turns the double play well. But, he has little to no range. This myth has hit Jeter territory. They're actually similar fielders. He's not a dynamic enough to defender to make up for his bat. He's not a catcher, SS or CF. If he added anything else, I could live with him. Maybe if he stole some bases or gave us good AB's every now and then. Maybe if he was fundamentally sound or bunted well or worked counts. He doesn't do anything really well outside of catch balls he can get to. He sucks.

LoveYourSuit
09-07-2012, 11:24 PM
Have not liked him since 2010, but people want to hold on to this guy when they were easy to pile
On alexei earlier for a cold stretch.


Can you believe Alexei having a dogpile of **** year with power and obp% is tied with Konerko for RBIs on this team? :o:

Not sure if to be happy for Alexei or be pissed at Konerko.

The guy has to be hurt. There is no other way to put it.

amsteel
09-07-2012, 11:27 PM
I don't get the advanced D stats too much, but alot of Gordo's 'over-replacement-player' stats are negative for 2012

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beckhgo01.shtml

guillensdisciple
09-07-2012, 11:32 PM
Can you believe Alexei having a dogpile of **** year with power and obp% is tied with Konerko for RBIs on this team? :o:

Not sure if to be happy for Alexei or be pissed at Konerko.

The guy has to be hurt. There is no other way to put it.

I do, but alexei has been consistently above average for us for years. It's a bad year for paulie, and the same old for Alexei. The only thing that has dipped are the power numbers and a few more might our him where he should be.

I hope these are injuries for Paulie. I don't want this to be his decline, even though we only have one year of him left. I want him to leave a great player.

And just to say it one more time, Gordon beckham is a horrible baseball player. Addison Reed is not that good of a pitcher either, and I think Nate jones might be your future closed.

RCWHITESOX
09-07-2012, 11:48 PM
Which debunks the myth that his glove brings any value to this team.

He also has the worst batting average and run production of any player in MLB on the road this season.

Parrothead
09-07-2012, 11:52 PM
The question I have is why did try to score On that ball hit right? He was out by a mile. Yeah, there were the previously mentioned issues but that one burns my ass.

Frater Perdurabo
09-07-2012, 11:55 PM
Agreed. It's not a bad move if you pinch hit for Beckham.

Agreed. I would have had Johnson pinch-hit for Beckham. Would they then walk him to bring up DeAza? Then you have Hudson play second in the top of the ninth.

Noneck
09-07-2012, 11:55 PM
The guy has to be hurt. There is no other way to put it.

Maybe but sometimes father time makes an abrupt appearance, like it did to Dye.

TheOldRoman
09-08-2012, 12:01 AM
Tigers lose! Keep it up, Angels. Lord knows we need the help.

palehozenychicty
09-08-2012, 12:10 AM
Yeah but think of the fun you're gonna have the day they clinch the playoff spot. Everything after that would be gravy. Heck we're kind of into gravy territory now given what most of us expected this year.

Indeed. Their lack of depth may be catching up to them. There is still plenty of time, though,

Nellie_Fox
09-08-2012, 12:13 AM
I never cared for Brian Anderson because when a guy sucks he sucks.

But to be fair, Brian Anderson was not given 3 years to suck this bad to finally say let's move on. I'm saying 3 years and quite frankly I hear of no plan to avoid giving him a 4th.Maybe because it's a whole lot easier to replace a no-hitting outfielder than it is a second baseman?

TheOldRoman
09-08-2012, 12:15 AM
Which debunks the myth that his glove brings any value to this team.No, all it does is show that WAR is a terrible statistic. Is Gordon great defensively? Yes. All-time great? No. He doesn't have incredible range, but he does have good range. Basically, any person or stat ranking him not at or near the very top of defensive 2B in the AL is dumb. Yes, he has had a terrible year at the plate. Don't knock his defense just to justify hating him.

I hate Gordon Beckham. That's all I got.Excellent tantrum. Always among my favorites. You should throw in a "**** you, Gordon!!" just for good measure.

palehozenychicty
09-08-2012, 12:20 AM
No, all it does is show that WAR is a terrible statistic. Is Gordon great defensively? Yes. All-time great? No. He doesn't have incredible range, but he does have good range. Basically, any person or stat ranking him not at or near the very top of defensive 2B in the AL is dumb. Yes, he has had a terrible year at the plate. Don't knock his defense just to justify hating him.

Excellent tantrum. Always among my favorites. You should throw in a "**** you, Gordon!!" just for good measure.

Haters gonna hate.

Beckham is now the back of his baseball card.

TaylorStSox
09-08-2012, 12:25 AM
No, all it does is show that WAR is a terrible statistic. Is Gordon great defensively? Yes. All-time great? No. He doesn't have incredible range, but he does have good range. Basically, any person or stat ranking him not at or near the very top of defensive 2B in the AL is dumb. Yes, he has had a terrible career at the plate. Don't knock his defense just to justify hating him.

Excellent tantrum. Always among my favorites. You should throw in a "**** you, Gordon!!" just for good measure.

fyp

Nobody's saying he's a bad defender. He isn't a good enough defender to make up for his bat.

SoxSpeed22
09-08-2012, 12:32 AM
Hererra has a 2.45 ERA and a 4.25 K/BB and a 1.13 WHIP, so maybe Beckham just got beat by a good pitcher?
As for the rest of the game, down and in sliders to Cain is a bad idea (I know both of them were hangers). We had more than enough chances to win this one and didn't.

SoxSpeed22
09-08-2012, 12:33 AM
This is what pisses me off more than anything. The division is theirs for the taking, but the way they've played the last two weeks you wouldn't know it. I wish I could say I'm optimistic about the post-season, but unless someone opens up a can of whoop-ass I'm afraid it's not going to be pretty. Somehow I don't see much success if this team ends up backing up into the playoffs.You can say the same thing about the Tigers. If anything, their fans should be more PO'ed about the way they're playing so inconsistently.

WLL1855
09-08-2012, 12:34 AM
Somebody remind me who the **** Lorenzo Cain is and why we are getting gutted like a fish by him?

Sweet Jesus.

PalehosePlanet
09-08-2012, 12:47 AM
Hererra has a 2.45 ERA and a 4.25 K/BB and a 1.13 WHIP, so maybe Beckham just got beat by a good pitcher?
As for the rest of the game, down and in sliders to Cain is a bad idea (I know both of them were hangers). We had more than enough chances to win this one and didn't.

He should have been pinch hit for; he's not only a bad hitter but is also by far our worst fastball hitter. Robin left hit out there to die against a righty throwing mid to upper 90's. We have left handed hitters, and better fastball hitters on the bench.

I used to bitch constantly about Ozzie rarely pinch hitting, but Robin is turning out to be just as clueless in this regard.

Lip Man 1
09-08-2012, 12:56 AM
Well...

The Sox have lost nine of 13 to the Royals and six straight...

The Sox have lost 10 of 14 to the Tigers and seven straight.

It's gotten beyond the point of anger...all you can do is laugh at the ineptness of the team, shake your head over the missed chances to grab this division by the throat and wonder what starter will be out of the lineup next because of a minor - nagging injury...

That's eight of 11, and "Cy" Chen is licking his chops. Oh the Royals came in losers of five of their last seven.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
09-08-2012, 01:09 AM
Can you believe Alexei having a dogpile of **** year with power and obp% is tied with Konerko for RBIs on this team? :o:

Not sure if to be happy for Alexei or be pissed at Konerko.

The guy has to be hurt. There is no other way to put it.

Maybe but sometimes father time makes an abrupt appearance, like it did to Dye.

At some point in June Konerko had some sort of surgery on his wrist and was given a few days off in the hope that it would get better and he acknowledged that it was something that might have to be addressed in the off season but he hoped it would heal on its own. I really think that that is what is bothering him. In the past when he would go into long slumps he would get way too pull happy. He is still going the other way, the problem is his power is gone now. I really think that that is a side effect of his wrist injury. That's all speculation obviously but he doesn't look anywhere near as lost at the plate as JD did in the second half of 2009.

JB98
09-08-2012, 02:32 AM
As I said in the Game Thread, I've been quite patient with the bullpen management this year. I think Cooper and Ventura generally have done well given all the injuries and the generally ineffectiveness of so many pitchers.

Nevertheless, I find it inexplicable that they would bring Reed into pitch the top of the ninth in a tie game at home. Reed is terrible in non-save situations, and the bullpen was both rested and has a surplus of arms to use. There is no reason, none, to use the closer in that situation.

I hear a lot of people make this point, Frater, not just you. But I really disagree with it.

Nearly every manager in baseball uses his closer in the same manner Ventura used Reed in this game. I see it all the time. And you know what? It usually works. The closer gets the three outs in the top of the ninth inning, he preserves the tie and gives his team an opportunity to win a ballgame in the bottom of the ninth.

It is the closer's job to pitch in pressure situations in the ninth inning, whether it's a tie game, a one-run game or whatever.

I understand closers have letdowns when they are brought in to mop up when the score is 6-1. I get that. The adrenaline isn't there. There's more margin for error than usual. They get sloppy. They make bad pitches. You see that happen frequently to closers all around the league.

However, there is no excuse for that in a tie game. It's a pressure situation. The game hangs in the balance, and as a closer, you're paid to get those tough outs in the ninth inning -- save situation or not. If a pitcher cannot handle that, then he should not be the closer.

What happened in the top of the ninth inning was not Ventura's fault. It was Reed's fault. He made horse**** pitches and blew the game.

I think Ventura deserves every ounce of criticism he has received here for taking the bat out of Alexei's hands in the bottom of the eighth. It was a ludicrous decision.

However, Reed is to blame for what took place in the top of the ninth.

Dan H
09-08-2012, 03:27 AM
Well...

The Sox have lost nine of 13 to the Royals and six straight...

The Sox have lost 10 of 14 to the Tigers and seven straight.

It's gotten beyond the point of anger...all you can do is laugh at the ineptness of the team, shake your head over the missed chances to grab this division by the throat and wonder what starter will be out of the lineup next because of a minor - nagging injury...

That's eight of 11, and "Cy" Chen is licking his chops. Oh the Royals came in losers of five of their last seven.

Lip

Kenny Williams got angry because critics said the Sox couldn't win big games. He pointed to the sweep of the Yankees as a defense. But if the Sox can't beat teams in their own division, a three game sweep doesn't mean much. And this has been a problem for years. Williams has been a problem for years.

SBSoxFan
09-08-2012, 03:30 AM
Agreed. I would have had Johnson pinch-hit for Beckham. Would they then walk him to bring up DeAza? Then you have Hudson play second in the top of the ninth.

Yes, they still would have walked DeAza because Johnson probably wouldn't be sent up until it was Beckham's turn to bat.

I just think if Beckham doesn't take a fastball right down the plate, the Sox probably score a run in that situation. It might not have been enough, however. :(:

Martinigirl
09-08-2012, 05:31 AM
It is after reading threads like this I think it is not so bad being thousands of miles away, not being able to watch the game live and just waking up to the score.

I have a Sling Box in Chicago and I recorded the game, but I am assuming there is really no good reason to watch it.

Hopefully, today's game will be better.

slavko
09-08-2012, 08:11 AM
I never cared for Brian Anderson because when a guy sucks he sucks.

But to be fair, Brian Anderson was not given 3 years to suck this bad to finally say let's move on. I'm saying 3 years and quite frankly I hear of no plan to avoid giving him a 4th.

Brian was screwed with after a half-season of sucking. To be fair, he eventually went elsewhere and sucked. Somebody explain why Mike Cameron hit under .200 for a season and kept his job.

SI1020
09-08-2012, 09:12 AM
No, all it does is show that WAR is a terrible statistic. Is Gordon great defensively? Yes. All-time great? No. He doesn't have incredible range, but he does have good range. Basically, any person or stat ranking him not at or near the very top of defensive 2B in the AL is dumb. Yes, he has had a terrible year at the plate. Don't knock his defense just to justify hating him.
I agree with everything here. I would add that Beckham shows nice range to his left, not quite as good to his right. Recently I tried more than once to elicit some conversation and debate about some of the newer metrics. I did it when I noticed that baseball-reference had essentially blown up its methods for calculating DWAR and pitching WAR. It resulted in a massive reshuffling of the all time rankings reminding me of 1984 where Winston Smith and others were charged with rewriting history as the authorities saw fit. In any case I totally failed to get the debate going. As for Beckham, it doesn't appear that he will ever be able to hit MLB pitching consistently. A shame.

TaylorStSox
09-08-2012, 09:14 AM
Brian was screwed with after a half-season of sucking. To be fair, he eventually went elsewhere and sucked. Somebody explain why Mike Cameron hit under .200 for a season and kept his job.
He never hit under .200 for an entire season. The Sox put up with him because he was an elite defender at a premium position, had some pop and stole bases. He was also younger than Beckham. Gordon's been doing this for 4 years and isn't improving. Also, they have a name for "great" second basemen, they're called shortstops.

Tragg
09-08-2012, 09:30 AM
Agreed. I would have had Johnson pinch-hit for Beckham. Would they then walk him to bring up DeAza? Then you have Hudson play second in the top of the ninth.

They'd be crazy to walk Johnson to get to De Aza. De Aza's good.
That's the problem with this bunt - Johnson is only incremental help over Beckham....not enough to warrant an automatic out and take the bat out of Alexei and De Aza's hands. Sure, once we bunted, we probably should have PH for Beckham. But we shouldn't have bunted when you have to leave it up to that level of hitter to get the SF, and then leave it up to a bad hitter for the 2 out RBI.

Now, if we had De Aza, Youk and Dunn coming up after the bunt, then yes, bunt in the tie game in the 8th (actually, I still wouldn't do it, but that's my preference - that would have been a time to bunt if you like bunting). But our best choice to drive the run in was a AAAA. Mercy.

XplodingScorbord
09-08-2012, 09:48 AM
All this means is that we're positioned perfectly to reel off five or six wins in a row! :gosox:

LET'S GO WHITE SOX!

Chez
09-08-2012, 10:11 AM
Agreed. I would have had Johnson pinch-hit for Beckham. Would they then walk him to bring up DeAza? Then you have Hudson play second in the top of the ninth.

Exactly. That's the move I was screaming for after Ramirez bunted. A squeeze with Beckham would also have been a decent call. But this one is on Liriano and Reed -- they were brutal. And, to be fair, Beckham struck out on a 100 mph heater -- it was a good pitch.

Lopez looked terrible at the plate and in the field. Made me wish for Morel.

October26
09-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Two free tickets to last night's Sox game landed in my lap so I called WSI poster and good friend GoGoCrede and and we went to the game. We had fun and I enjoyed the lively "Halfway to St. Patrick's Day" crowd. We were also happy to get one of the green Sox shamrock hats they gave away last night.

Then came the top of the 9th inning. Addison Reed broke my heart when he gave up that two run homer in the top of the 9th. The energy just deflated from the crowd right after that. It felt like I had been punched in the gut. I watched the post-game fireworks show sitting in my car in Lot B.

I've woken up today with a bad-Sox-loss-hangover (the kind you get the morning after witnessing a bad loss at USCF). I need to shake it off quick as there is another Sox game in a few hours. LET'S GO CHRIS SALE AND LET'S GO WHITE SOX!

EdHerman12
09-08-2012, 10:34 AM
The way things are going...I get the sneaking feeling we'll be meeting the Tigers somewhere in a 163rd game tie breaker like we did with the Twins in '08...

nsolo
09-08-2012, 10:40 AM
Yeah but think of the fun you're gonna have the day they clinch the playoff spot. Everything after that would be gravy. Heck we're kind of into gravy territory now given what most of us expected this year.

THANK YOU!!! I'm as frustrated as anyone with losing six in a row to KC, but considering my personal predictions for this team at the start of the season, I agree that we are in "gravy territory". I NEVER thought that September would yield meaningful baseball.

But still....."Hello, McFly (Ventura)", bunting Alexi for an almost certain out? Are you gooffy?!?!?!

kittle42
09-08-2012, 11:18 AM
The way things are going...I get the sneaking feeling we'll be meeting the Tigers somewhere in a 163rd game tie breaker like we did with the Twins in '08...

The winner of that game will finish 82-81!

Hitmen77
09-08-2012, 11:26 AM
That Alexei bunt plan was just a brutal move. That easily set the Royals up to face to awful hitters in Beckham and Lopez.

Of course, for all we know Alexei would have struck out anyway, but the Sox pretty much painted themselves into a corner that inning. Ventura and Cooper must be lousy at chess.

Another blown chance to add to our razor thin lead in the Central.

StillMissOzzie
09-08-2012, 12:23 PM
I was at that game last night and I am only now in a condition to comment on that train wreck.

So many blown opportunities, when all they needed was a base hit, a deep fly ball, or even just a grounder up the middle. :angry:
While I am certainly not ready to give Bacon a pass here, there was a ****load of pop-ups and strikeouts by a few other guys that could have broken the game open.

What did Jose Lopez show Ventura, or anyone else for that matter, in his first 4 ABs to merit not getting pinch hit for the 5th time? I think THAT was a better spot for Dan Johnson to pinch hit for, and not in the 9th when you're in desperation mode pleading for a HR. And just who would the catcher have been had Johnson come through with said HR?:?:

I saw a stat recently of how much worse Reed is when he comes into a game in a non-save situation vs. a save situation. What the ****? Your job is to get guys out, not just to make sure your stats look good. And good thing that Nate Jones preserved HIS scoreless streak - even though he allowed both inherited runners to score. :angry:

Poorly played, poorly managed.

SMO
:gulp:

WisSoxFan
09-08-2012, 12:36 PM
THANK YOU!!! I'm as frustrated as anyone with losing six in a row to KC, but considering my personal predictions for this team at the start of the season, I agree that we are in "gravy territory". I NEVER thought that September would yield meaningful baseball.


I get this sentiment - the "we've exceeded expectations so just be happy we're in it" thing, but the Sox have been in first place since late July and have lead the Central for the majority of the season. They've had the best run differential for much of the year in the Central as well. My point is they've proven they belong here and I'll be damned if I'm going to just be happy the Sox are playing meaningful games in Sept. They're a good team, as good or better than any in the Central, now win the damn thing! It's right there for the taking.

October26
09-08-2012, 12:55 PM
I was at that game last night and I am only now in a condition to comment on that train wreck.

So many blown opportunities, when all they needed was a base hit, a deep fly ball, or even just a grounder up the middle. :angry:
While I am certainly not ready to give Bacon a pass here, there was a ****load of pop-ups and strikeouts by a few other guys that could have broken the game open.

What did Jose Lopez show Ventura, or anyone else for that matter, in his first 4 ABs to merit not getting pinch hit for the 5th time? I think THAT was a better spot for Dan Johnson to pinch hit for, and not in the 9th when you're in desperation mode pleading for a HR. And just who would the catcher have been had Johnson come through with said HR?:?:

I saw a stat recently of how much worse Reed is when he comes into a game in a non-save situation vs. a save situation. What the ****? Your job is to get guys out, not just to make sure your stats look good. And good thing that Nate Jones preserved HIS scoreless streak - even though he allowed both inherited runners to score. :angry:

Poorly played, poorly managed.

SMO
:gulp:

I hear you, SMO. Wish I'd known that you were there last night and where you were sitting as I would have come over to say hello to you and Mrs. SMO.

Chez
09-08-2012, 01:49 PM
I was at that game last night and I am only now in a condition to comment on that train wreck.

So many blown opportunities, when all they needed was a base hit, a deep fly ball, or even just a grounder up the middle. :angry:
While I am certainly not ready to give Bacon a pass here, there was a ****load of pop-ups and strikeouts by a few other guys that could have broken the game open.

What did Jose Lopez show Ventura, or anyone else for that matter, in his first 4 ABs to merit not getting pinch hit for the 5th time? I think THAT was a better spot for Dan Johnson to pinch hit for, and not in the 9th when you're in desperation mode pleading for a HR. And just who would the catcher have been had Johnson come through with said HR?:?:

I saw a stat recently of how much worse Reed is when he comes into a game in a non-save situation vs. a save situation. What the ****? Your job is to get guys out, not just to make sure your stats look good. And good thing that Nate Jones preserved HIS scoreless streak - even though he allowed both inherited runners to score. :angry:

Poorly played, poorly managed.

SMO
:gulp:

Sox have a third catcher. Hector Gimenez.

StillMissOzzie
09-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Sox have a third catcher. Hector Gimenez.

I did not know that. Too bad that HR never came to give us a chance to see him.

SMO
:redface:

slavko
09-08-2012, 06:22 PM
As I said in the Game Thread, I've been quite patient with the bullpen management this year. I think Cooper and Ventura generally have done well given all the injuries and the generally ineffectiveness of so many pitchers.

Nevertheless, I find it inexplicable that they would bring Reed into pitch the top of the ninth in a tie game at home. Reed is terrible in non-save situations, and the bullpen was both rested and has a surplus of arms to use. There is no reason, none, to use the closer in that situation.

So when the Angels used their closer, Frieri, in the top 9th against the Tigers in a 2-2 game tonight and he shut the Tigers down and the Angels won it 3-2 in the bottom 9th, you disapproved?

Frater Perdurabo
09-08-2012, 07:22 PM
So when the Angels used their closer, Frieri, in the top 9th against the Tigers in a 2-2 game tonight and he shut the Tigers down and the Angels won it 3-2 in the bottom 9th, you disapproved?

I approve of the Angels' results.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's not a logical explanation for it, but Reed has a much higher ERA in non-save situations.

slavko
09-08-2012, 09:13 PM
I approve of the Angels' results.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's not a logical explanation for it, but Reed has a much higher ERA in non-save situations.

Please differentiate between "ahead by more than 3" non-save situations and "tied or behind" non-save situations. Betcha the facts sort out different than lumping all non-save situations together.

Lip Man 1
09-08-2012, 10:19 PM
Wis:

Very well said.

Lip