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thomas35forever
09-04-2012, 11:36 PM
Couple more TD passes by Cutler would have won it.

Soxman219
09-04-2012, 11:37 PM
I just saw the Sox were up 3-0? Wow. Please win tomorrow.

JB98
09-04-2012, 11:38 PM
I'm not bothered by the Twins scoring 18 runs. One loss is one loss.

The big question that comes out of tonight's game is this: Do you stick with Quintana? Two real bad ones in a row, and he looks gassed. If not, what are the options?

keloms
09-04-2012, 11:39 PM
Where did Hawk go? Never knew he could just take off like that.

thomas35forever
09-04-2012, 11:39 PM
I'm not bothered by the Twins scoring 18 runs. One loss is one loss.

The big question that comes out of tonight's game is this: Do you stick with Quintana? Two real bad ones in a row, and he looks gassed. If not, what are the options?
Santiago/Axelrod look like a couple of good options, which isn't really encouraging going forward. Floyd needs to hurry back because our staff has hit a wall at the worst possible time.

roylestillman
09-04-2012, 11:39 PM
Well, you win 60, you lose 60...

JB98
09-04-2012, 11:41 PM
Santiago/Axelrod look like a couple of good options, which isn't really encouraging going forward. Floyd needs to hurry back because our staff has hit a wall at the worst possible time.

This team needs Floyd. I hope he can come back and give some quality innings down the stretch. I prefer Santiago to Axelrod for the five spot. Hector just misses more bats.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2012, 11:43 PM
JB:

I'm bothered by the loss because it means the Sox have dropped seven of nine (wrong time of the year to start heading south) and the Tigers lost.

Looks like the league has figured out Quintana.

Humber has simply lost it (not that he had a lot going for him to start with but you hoped that after last year's first half he could be at least serviceable...)

In the last week the Sox are getting killed by stiffs like Ford, McLouth, Teagarden, Escobar, Parmalee and Plouffe...everyone hitting under .250 except McLouth.

Maybe Cooper needs to explain how the Sox are pitching the bottom of the order.

Thank God Detroit lost.

Try to win the series tomorrow, what else can you do?

Lip

soxnut1018
09-04-2012, 11:44 PM
Fire Lovie.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2012, 11:45 PM
JB:

I'm biased against Floyd and I admit that. Yes it would be nice if he could return and beat Detroit next week but with the way he's not been able to finish seasons in the past because of injuries, I'm not going to hold my breath.

Lip

kittle42
09-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Well, Phil Humber is the worst pitcher to ever thrown a perfecto, but I think we knew that when it happened.

And Quintana is back down to Earth, unsurprisingly but I was hoping it would last the rest of the season at least.

Down to 2 real starters!

Brian26
09-04-2012, 11:50 PM
Sox pitching is collapsing quicker than the 2000 team. We got problems.

ChiSoxGal85
09-04-2012, 11:52 PM
Where did Hawk go? Never knew he could just take off like that.
It is his birthday. I'll bet he just took off to enjoy his birthday instead of that crapfest of a loss.

Quintana and Humber looked gassed. I hope we got some guys that can give Quintana a break, for more than one start.

JB98
09-04-2012, 11:52 PM
JB:

I'm biased against Floyd and I admit that. Yes it would be nice if he could return and beat Detroit next week but with the way he's not been able to finish seasons in the past because of injuries, I'm not going to hold my breath.

Lip

Floyd is the best hope for the back of the rotation, though. What else can they do? No one in their right mind would give Humber another shot. He had a good first half last year. He had a magical day in April this year. But the party is over now, and we saw the proof of that tonight.

I hope Floyd passes his next test with his throw day on Thursday. Then, I think you put Santiago in the five spot and roll the dice. Santiago has good stuff and misses bats. Plus, he doesn't look tired. I'll take him over Axelrod.

As much as I like Quintana, he is gassed and it's time to pull the plug. He has no command. The Sox can't put him out there next week against the Tigers. No way.

WhiteSox5187
09-04-2012, 11:54 PM
Sox pitching is collapsing quicker than the 2000 team. We got problems.

I mentioned this in the game thread but the last time someone on the White Sox threw 200 innings was Gavin Floyd and that as 4 years ago. It certainly seems like all these guys are hitting their wall around the same time.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2012, 11:56 PM
Brian:

The difference is though in 2000 everyone was hurt badly because of the pressure and overuse. Eldred was out until the last week missing two months, Baldwin missed a month, Parque and Sirotka blew out shoulders the final week.

Outside of Floyd is anybody hurt on this staff right now?

JB:

I guess there's always a slight chance of still getting someone on waivers. I agree though Santiago is in the rotation. But I don't think Floyd is coming back. The Sox might ask him to but I get the strong sense he won't extend himself. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see.

Lip

TheOldRoman
09-04-2012, 11:57 PM
Looks like the league has figured out Quintana.No, it hasn't. I don't know if you watched the Sox feed, but Stone talked about how Quintana's exhaustion has showed in his walks. He was walking under a batter a game for the whole year, then in his last four starts he has walked at least four batters each time. Because he isn't throwing as hard, he is putting a little extra on it, and that "extra" results in him missing the zone. He has obviously hit a wall. I don't know if Quintana will be able to give the Sox anything for the rest of the year, but it's silly to claim that he was figured out because he started walking guys.

I think the Sox should throw Axelrod and Santiago against the Royals. I mean, we don't score against those stiffs anyway, so we might as well not waste Sale on them. Bump Sale to Monday so he has 7 days rest and we have him and Peavy going in games 1 and 2 against Detroit. Skip Quintana a start and see if he can give you anything in another week.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2012, 11:59 PM
Roman:

That's an idea with Sale at least. Peavy doesn't seem to have anything against Detroit - remember he coughed up a 6-0 lead in May against them.

Whatever happens Kenny has a hell of an off season job rebuilding the rotation overnight. He puts a high price on pitching and he is all probability is going to lose at least 40% maybe 60% or more of his rotation. (I say more than 60% because Humber actually was in it at one time - he might have pitched himself out the door tonight...)

Lip

JB98
09-05-2012, 12:03 AM
No, it hasn't. I don't know if you watched the Sox feed, but Stone talked about how Quintana's exhaustion has showed in his walks. He was walking under a batter a game for the whole year, then in his last four starts he has walked at least four batters each time. Because he isn't throwing as hard, he is putting a little extra on it, and that "extra" results in him missing the zone. He has obviously hit a wall. I don't know if Quintana will be able to give the Sox anything for the rest of the year, but it's silly to claim that he was figured out because he started walking guys.

I think the Sox should throw Axelrod and Santiago against the Royals. I mean, we don't score against those stiffs anyway, so we might as well not waste Sale on them. Bump Sale to Monday so he has 7 days rest and we have him and Peavy going in games 1 and 2 against Detroit. Skip Quintana a start and see if he can give you anything in another week.

Interesting idea and worth considering. If Sale goes Monday, he won't go against Verlander. I think Verlander is on track to pitch the fourth and final game in Chicago.

Maybe you go Sale, Peavy, Liriano the first three games against Detroit. Hope to win at least two, then give Santiago the fourth one against Verlander. The Sox are underdogs in that last game regardless of which guy throws against Verlander.

Hitmen77
09-05-2012, 12:06 AM
:whiteflag::anon::tiphat:

I don't have the stats to back this up, but this seems like at least the 3rd time this season that the Sox starter got rocked, then the bullpen put the game out of reach, and THEN the Sox offense ends up scoring something like 8 or 9 runs.

Oh well, at least this awful showing counts just the same as a 1-run loss. It sucks that the Sox blew a chance to gain another game on Detroit tonight.

The starting pitchers all look like they're out of gas. :(:

Lip Man 1
09-05-2012, 12:11 AM
Hitmen:

Sox have lost six games this year where they scored at least seven runs.

Vs.:

Detroit
Seattle
Houston
Toronto
Oakland
Minnesota

Lip

JB98
09-05-2012, 12:13 AM
:whiteflag::anon::tiphat:

I don't have the stats to back this up, but this seems like at least the 3rd time this season that the Sox starter got rocked, then the bullpen put the game out of reach, and THEN the Sox offense ends up scoring something like 8 or 9 runs.

Oh well, at least this awful showing counts just the same as a 1-run loss. It sucks that the Sox blew a chance to gain another game on Detroit tonight.

The starting pitchers all look like they're out of gas. :(:

The Sox have gotten two good starting pitching performances in their last 10 games — Dylan Axelrod and Hector Santiago.

I actually don't think Peavy and Liriano are out of gas. They just sucked last time out. Sale threw a ton of breaking balls last time out, so I'm mildly concerned that he's not trusting his fastball. But you're gonna send that guy to the post. His secondary pitches are still wicked, even if he doesn't have the 95 mph heat.

No. 4 and 5 are a concern right now. Floyd is injured. Quintana is gassed. Axelrod is Quad-A. Santiago has been a reliever most of the year. Humber is just bad.

Scottiehaswheels
09-05-2012, 12:24 AM
Can they get Wise stretched out to start? teal? :angry:

Can someone get a pitchtrax thing posted for how Wise pitched? I'm just curious.

JB98
09-05-2012, 12:25 AM
One other point about Quintana before I call it a night:

His previous career high in innings was 102, set last season. This year, he has tossed 163 2/3 innings including 115 at the MLB level. Obviously, that's a big jump.

I don't think anyone can say with certainty right now that "the league has figured him out." We won't know that until next season. I think there is a pretty fair chance his struggles are due to fatigue.

If he sucks next year, then, yeah, you could say the league has figured him out. But I'm not ready to draw that conclusion at this time.

palehozenychicty
09-05-2012, 12:38 AM
I guess AP came back strong after knee surgery.

Nellie_Fox
09-05-2012, 01:06 AM
It is his birthday. I'll bet he just took off to enjoy his birthday instead of that crapfest of a loss. Blyleven said he went over to the Sox booth to say happy birthday to Hawk, and he was gone. Stoney told him that Hawk has a 17 run clause in his contract.:tongue:

ShooterMcGavin
09-05-2012, 01:12 AM
Brian:

The difference is though in 2000 everyone was hurt badly because of the pressure and overuse. Eldred was out until the last week missing two months, Baldwin missed a month, Parque and Sirotka blew out shoulders the final week.

Outside of Floyd is anybody hurt on this staff right now?

Lip

John Danks.

DSpivack
09-05-2012, 02:18 AM
I guess my luck ran out: the first two games I attended this season were won in the last at-bat.

At least the tickets were free and it was a beautiful night to watch a game.

Dan H
09-05-2012, 06:08 AM
This does not look like a playoff team to me.

LITTLE NELL
09-05-2012, 07:12 AM
I've never seen a baseball game with 9 field goals.
Went to a Bears-Lions game at Wrigley in the early 60, all points on field goals, won by the Bears 15-9.

When it was 7-4, I thought we still had a chance but Axelrod and Humber were bad. Need Jake to be a stopper today.

doublem23
09-05-2012, 08:57 AM
I don't think anyone can say with certainty right now that "the league has figured him out." We won't know that until next season. I think there is a pretty fair chance his struggles are due to fatigue.

No, anyone who would say that is just being an idiot for the sake of being an idiot.

Chez
09-05-2012, 09:12 AM
The starting pitching is a huge concern -- and has been for a few weeks. I really like Quintana but I think he has run out of gas. Let Santiago have Q's next start and put Q in the bullpen. I still don't trust Axelrod. With his [lack of] stuff, he has to be nearly perfect to get major league hitters out. The Twins were crushing the ball against him last night. Has it come down to irrationally hoping/praying for the resurrection of Gavin Floyd?

Viva Medias B's
09-05-2012, 09:16 AM
I turned on the postgame show on the Score; Doug & O.B. were having heart attacks on the air.

October26
09-05-2012, 09:30 AM
Last night was a busy one at our house, as my son came home from school (CPS, first day of school) with the usual forms, letters, transportation info, as well as a letter regarding the looming CTU strike. I tuned in to watch the game and was encouraged to see the Sox score 3 runs in the bottom of the 1st inning.

Then I had to step away as my Mommy responsibilities always take precedence. By the time I got back to the watching the game two hours later, the score was Twins 17, Sox 4. I was shocked. Wow. What happened to our pitching last night? Did the entire bullpen pitch? And have I told you lately how much I dislike seeing the Sox lose to the Twins.

So today is another day and a busy workday for me. I hope to jump into the game thread later as today is a day game. I hope Jake brings his A game and the Sox score early and often. We need wins - Go Sox!

Lip Man 1
09-05-2012, 09:42 AM
Well Q is insisting he is not tired according to the newspaper today, so if he's telling the truth or if it's not that the "league has figured him out" (since I'm an idiot according to some) that pray tell what the hell is the answer? Is he tipping pitches??

I'll hang up and let the folks who know everything enlighten me. :rolleyes:

Lip

DeadMoney
09-05-2012, 09:43 AM
Stayed for the entire game. At least I can say I was there when the White Sox set a franchise record with 10 doubles and were the first team since 1935 to lose when achieving such a feat.

This marks two games this season where I've seen Humber pitch in a historic game; April 21 in Seattle and last night. When Humber pitches, get your history books out! Nothing quite like a historic day/night at the ballpark.

In all seriousness, thankfully that only was worth 1 in the loss column. And, I'm normally pretty optimistic about things, but this team has some big pitching issues it's going to have to figure out fast if they want to win the division.

Harry Potter
09-05-2012, 09:50 AM
Stayed for the entire game. At least I can say I was there when the White Sox set a franchise record with 10 doubles and were the first team since 1935 to lose when achieving such a feat.

This marks two games this season where I've seen Humber pitch in a historic game; April 21 in Seattle and last night. When Humber pitches, get your history books out! Nothing quite like a historic day/night at the ballpark.


#witness

doublem23
09-05-2012, 10:03 AM
Well Q is insisting he is not tired according to the newspaper today, so if he's telling the truth or if it's not that the "league has figured him out" (since I'm an idiot according to some) that pray tell what the hell is the answer? Is he tipping pitches??

I'll hang up and let the folks who know everything enlighten me. :rolleyes:

Lip

It's called he's ****ing lying and he's tired. Maybe he doesn't have such dead arm that he can't drink a cup of coffee, but the difference between a meatball over the heart of the plate and a great pitch on the corner is miniscule. The guy has thrown 163.2 innings this year in AA and the MLB, that's over 60 more than he'd ever thrown before professionally. Maybe he says he's not tired because he doesn't realize how tired he is. Maybe he feels OK but anyone who watches him can see his pitches aren't quite as sharp, his control isn't quite as good, and for a guy who lives on the corners and doesn't have overpowering stuff, that's dangerous.

Or maybe the league really has figured him out. I don't know, maybe his success was just a fluke half and he'll never be that good again. But to say DEFINITIVELY that you've diagnosed what is wrong with Jose lately is chucklehead, dumbass nonsense.

soltrain21
09-05-2012, 10:29 AM
Well Q is insisting he is not tired according to the newspaper today, so if he's telling the truth or if it's not that the "league has figured him out" (since I'm an idiot according to some) that pray tell what the hell is the answer? Is he tipping pitches??

I'll hang up and let the folks who know everything enlighten me. :rolleyes:

Lip

Of course he is going to say he isn't tired.

Chez
09-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Stayed for the entire game. At least I can say I was there when the White Sox set a franchise record with 10 doubles and were the first team since 1935 to lose when achieving such a feat.


I tip my hat to you, sir. I left after the 5th and I NEVER leave games early. I texted 5 of my friends to see if I had their blessing to leave after 5 and the responses were unanimous -- go home! :smile:

Dewayne Wise is now the answer to a good trivia question -- Name the last Sox pitcher to get a hit in a game which did not involve a National League opponent. He doubled in the bottom of the 9th after pitching the top.

kufram
09-05-2012, 11:01 AM
Has there ever been a team as streaky as this one? First we had good starting but a bad bullpen. Now our starters are in the bullpen, have been in the bullpen for a day or two, or headed for it. First we can't win at home but now we have trouble on the road. The offense is hot, the offense is dead. It is a bumpy ride but we're still on the right road. No one can say it isn't interesting.

I'm not a fan of changing the rotation at this point of a season. Of course a change that wins will convince me, but you kinda have to dance with the one that brung ya. I remember people were calling for different lineup changes every day of the week... send him down to figure it out was popular... and Robin basically stuck with the guys and most of them worked through it.

Our defense had been consistent for the most part.

kittle42
09-05-2012, 11:02 AM
Well Q is insisting he is not tired according to the newspaper today, so if he's telling the truth or if it's not that the "league has figured him out" (since I'm an idiot according to some) that pray tell what the hell is the answer? Is he tipping pitches??

I'll hang up and let the folks who know everything enlighten me. :rolleyes:

Lip

I will enlighten you: Players get asked questions and, regardless of the truth, often want to give answers with two things in mind: (1) I want to play and don't want to look like I am admitting defeat, so I am going to say what I need to for that to happen, and (2) I need to say the "right" thing.

Qunitana, like countless others, did that.

I tend to agree with Rotoworld's summation: "Perhaps fatigue is playing a factor, or maybe the 23-year-old left-hander just isn't really that good."

sox1970
09-05-2012, 11:14 AM
I will enlighten you: Players get asked questions and, regardless of the truth, often want to give answers with two things in mind: (1) I want to play and don't want to look like I am admitting defeat, so I am going to say what I need to for that to happen, and (2) I need to say the "right" thing.

Qunitana, like countless others, did that.

I tend to agree with Rotoworld's summation: "Perhaps fatigue is playing a factor, or maybe the 23-year-old left-hander just isn't really that good."

Quintana has thrown 163.2 innings this season. It's just time to shut him down, or at the very least, skip a start.

Foulke You
09-05-2012, 11:17 AM
Brian:

The difference is though in 2000 everyone was hurt badly because of the pressure and overuse. Eldred was out until the last week missing two months, Baldwin missed a month, Parque and Sirotka blew out shoulders the final week.

Outside of Floyd is anybody hurt on this staff right now?

The circumstances are different from 2000 but yes, injuries are playing a big part in the starting rotation right now. John Danks was supposed to be our #1 and has been out since May so that definitely was a huge blow and the only reason Quintana is even in the rotation. Gavin Floyd is on his second DL stint of the year. This is 2/5 of the rotation with injury troubles. Throw in the early struggles of former #5 starter Phil Humber and it is remarkable the Sox are in the position they are in right now.

WisSoxFan
09-05-2012, 11:19 AM
I will enlighten you: Players get asked questions and, regardless of the truth, often want to give answers with two things in mind: (1) I want to play and don't want to look like I am admitting defeat, so I am going to say what I need to for that to happen, and (2) I need to say the "right" thing.

Qunitana, like countless others, did that.

I tend to agree with Rotoworld's summation: "Perhaps fatigue is playing a factor, or maybe the 23-year-old left-hander just isn't really that good."

I tend to think more along these lines. I think he caught lightning in a bottle and this off-season would be a good time to trade high, if possible. As for the rest of this season - catching that lightning one more time wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I've been thinking a 7-3 home stand from the beginning. Lose one in each series. Win today and keep my hopes alive. :D:

SI1020
09-05-2012, 11:26 AM
I tend to agree with Rotoworld's summation: "Perhaps fatigue is playing a factor, or maybe the 23-year-old left-hander just isn't really that good." I hope it's the former, but I think it just could be the latter.

kufram
09-05-2012, 12:49 PM
Re: Quintana. He may not have what we really need now, but he has shown ability to pitch and for at least long enough to try to build on that. He showed ability to settle down after a bad inning early. It is trend in baseball now to want results now and forever or get rid of them. He's had a bad few games and, since he is way over his workload innings-wise, why give him to someone else to develop?

We are in a race. We got here with this group. They might not get us to the post-season, but then again they might. It's a crap-shoot. We aren't going to find any magic bullets now. Show some support for more than a week for the guys giving us this ride . They are what I call a team... or at least appear to be to me. We might not win the WS but stranger things have happened at sea.

JB98
09-05-2012, 01:07 PM
This does not look like a playoff team to me.

The Tigers don't look like a playoff team right now either.

But, between the Sox and the Tigers, one of the two will go to the playoffs.

Hitmen77
09-05-2012, 01:08 PM
Blyleven said he went over to the Sox booth to say happy birthday to Hawk, and he was gone. Stoney told him that Hawk has a 17 run clause in his contract.:tongue:

There's something morbidly funny about the fact that the Sox got beat so badly yesterday that even their TV announcer left the game.

doublem23
09-05-2012, 01:15 PM
The Tigers don't look like a playoff team right now either.

But, between the Sox and the Tigers, one of the two will go to the playoffs.

Yeah, plus, I don't think anyone though the Cardinals looked like much of "a play-off team" in late August when they were 69-64 and 10 games out of the wildcard lead, but sometimes crazy **** happens.

CHISOXFAN13
09-05-2012, 01:17 PM
Yeah, plus, I don't think anyone though the Cardinals looked like much of "a play-off team" in late August when they were 69-64 and 10 games out of the wildcard lead, but sometimes crazy **** happens.

Same deal for the 2006 Cardinals.

I don't give a **** how many wins the Sox have, as long as its one more than Detroit when the season ends.

Paulwny
09-05-2012, 01:20 PM
No, it hasn't. I don't know if you watched the Sox feed, but Stone talked about how Quintana's exhaustion has showed in his walks. He was walking under a batter a game for the whole year, then in his last four starts he has walked at least four batters each time. Because he isn't throwing as hard, he is putting a little extra on it, and that "extra" results in him missing the zone. He has obviously hit a wall. I don't know if Quintana will be able to give the Sox anything for the rest of the year, but it's silly to claim that he was figured out because he started walking guys.

I think the Sox should throw Axelrod and Santiago against the Royals. I mean, we don't score against those stiffs anyway, so we might as well not waste Sale on them. Bump Sale to Monday so he has 7 days rest and we have him and Peavy going in games 1 and 2 against Detroit. Skip Quintana a start and see if he can give you anything in another week.

I agree with Stone's comment. A tired arm means more pitches out of the strike zone, more walks, more 2-0 and 3-1 counts, advantage to the hitter.
The sox will only win the division if the young arms can perform as they did earlier in the season.

hawkjt
09-05-2012, 01:21 PM
Quintana is a finesse pitcher who counts on movement and command,and he has lost those due to fatigue probably.

Not surprising. He has had a great rookie season,but rookies hit the wall.
Next year he will be stronger,and as good as ever.
But right now, he needs to have at least one turn off to rest.
He needs to avoid pitching out of the stretch right now or he has no chance. If the leadoff guy gets on in an inning...watch out.

Flush this one quickly and come out and get the series today.

#1swisher
09-05-2012, 02:08 PM
RV in the 9/5 pregame: On Quintana, he still has the movement, the velocity and strength, he just needs to locate.

TDog
09-05-2012, 02:12 PM
Same deal for the 2006 Cardinals.

I don't give a **** how many wins the Sox have, as long as its one more than Detroit when the season ends.

In September 2005, the White Sox were experiencing a historic collapse that would have made Chicago forget about 1969 if it hadn't been for that 11-1 postseason run.

I missed last night's game totally, sort of, because I did my annual Giants game on this Say-Hey Tuesday. I sat down in my seat behind third base and was disappointed to see the Sox were losing 10-4 in the fifth. And they kept taking out the top number in the scoreboard and replacing it with a bigger one. But when I was riding the ferry back to Oakland after the Giants lost in extra innings, the only baseball reason I had to smile was the knowledge that the Tigers lost to the Indians, in a one-run game. Losing the one-run games hutrts more, although they all count as only one loss.

Later I smiled when I saw Wise pitched a scoreless ninth.