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Lip Man 1
08-26-2012, 06:10 PM
Those watching the game already know this but I assume it will be a discussion item afterwards so I started the thread for that purpose.

Floyd left Sunday after two innings with "elbow discomfort."

I don't know what to make of this and I'm not going to accuse any athlete of not being willing to play in pain (as opposed to being hurt), I will say that I have been told on more than one occasion by individuals connected with the club that folks are starting to question Floyd on some things.

Considering more than likely he's going to miss the Detroit series this is important. Floyd has dominated them in the past.

Long term, again I wonder what Kenny's thinking is going to be this off season. The Sox hold an option on him.

Personally if all things were equal I'd let him go but all things aren't equal. Danks has question marks until he shows he's physically healthy...Humber has been poor for a year and Peavy's a free agent.

Floyd has already had two previous seasons where he wound up missing the final month so he's apparently had medical issues in the past.

Just another in a seemingly endless series of injuries that are taking guys out of the lineup for periods of time this season.

Lip

DSpivack
08-26-2012, 06:14 PM
Liriano is a free agent, as well.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2012, 06:36 PM
That's true.

I heard from a source who knows the club and he honestly thinks "this is it" for Floyd.

They said the Sox should have learned a long time ago that you can't count on him.

We'll see what happens but this is a bad, bad time for more **** to start popping up with him.

Lip

KenBerryGrab
08-26-2012, 06:50 PM
Maybe the guy really is hurt.

shingo10
08-26-2012, 06:52 PM
So Floyd goes out...now does Humber take his spot?

Or can we play around with off days and get by with using 4 for the final month? Think we tried this in 2008 and while it got us to the playoffs we were screwed once we got there.

So maybe Humber can recapture some of that 1st half magic he had going on last season. Yikes.

LITTLE NELL
08-26-2012, 06:54 PM
Maybe the guy really is hurt.

I wanted to say something but then I thought the same thing you did.

SoxandtheCityTee
08-26-2012, 07:02 PM
So Floyd goes out...now does Humber take his spot?

Or can we play around with off days and get by with using 4 for the final month? Think we tried this in 2008 and while it got us to the playoffs we were screwed once we got there.

So maybe Humber can recapture some of that 1st half magic he had going on last season. Yikes.

In 2008 the real problem, I think, was having to adapt the rotation for three do or die games in a row incl. the last day of the season, then games 162 (make-up) and 163 (tiebreaker). This left us with Vasquez for the first game with the Rays. :whiner:

A. Cavatica
08-26-2012, 07:32 PM
I think Humber takes his spot and they bring up a kid to take Humber's. No big deal. It's not like Floyd was pitching well.

Brian26
08-26-2012, 07:34 PM
Long term, again I wonder what Kenny's thinking is going to be this off season. The Sox hold an option on him.

I think Floyd is gone and Santiago takes his place in the rotation. Just a hunch.

Floyd's only valuable if he continues to eat innings, and if his elbow is a problem now (last year it was his hip), he's not worth the option money.

The Immigrant
08-26-2012, 07:35 PM
That's two games in a row in which Floyd failed to get past the third inning, and the Sox ended up winning both. We'll be fine.

Brian26
08-26-2012, 07:36 PM
That's true.

I heard from a source who knows the club and he honestly thinks "this is it" for Floyd.



I've been waiting for Floyd to turn the corner like Garland did, but it never quite happened.

Brian26
08-26-2012, 07:38 PM
That's two games in a row in which Floyd failed to get past the third inning, and the Sox ended up winning both. We'll be fine.

The Sox were lucky to win those games though. This was the exception to the rule. More times than not, if you lose your starter that quickly, you're going to lose the game.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2012, 07:38 PM
Ken Berry:

He very well may be which is why I'm not accusing him of anything, I'm just saying I have heard more and more that folks connected with the organization are starting to wonder about him.

He's pitched poorly at times the last month even though the Sox offense has bailed him out, maybe that was a sign something was going wrong. I have no idea. I know he didn't report any problems (at least not that I've read or heard) since he missed a start in July.

It's just becoming a strange situation with him in my opinion and it's going to be really interesting to see how Kenny feels about all this in the off season.

Lip

CoopaLoop
08-26-2012, 07:40 PM
Hector Santiago is going to take Floyd's job next season.

I will be glad to see him go.

TDog
08-26-2012, 07:44 PM
I think Floyd is gone and Santiago takes his place in the rotation. Just a hunch.

Floyd's only valuable if he continues to eat innings, and if his elbow is a problem now (last year it was his hip), he's not worth the option money.

And he probably signs with Oakkand and magically becomes all better.

I was thinking Santiago as well, but lefties the Sox have starting, I think it might be spilt up between Humber and Santiago, who both have been doing well in long relief. There are a few teams that hit left-handed pitching well, and when hitters see nothing but lefties, they can become more accustomed to hitting them.

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, though, or label anyone gutless without knowing what it going on with Floyd's elbow.

Flamer
08-26-2012, 07:48 PM
The Sox hold an option on Peavy for 22 million. Since he'll get a 4 million buyout, it's really an 18 million option.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2012, 07:56 PM
I can't see the Sox picking it up unless JR decides to go "all in" again next year.

I can see the Sox and Peavy renegotiating a new three year deal though for less money. Jake said he likes it here and I get a sense (nothing official) he appreciated the Sox standing by him during his injuries.

We'll see if that translates into anything.

Lip

kittle42
08-26-2012, 07:59 PM
Hector Santiago is going to take Floyd's job next season.

Let's hope someone better than Hector Santiago is taking Floyd's job next season.

delben91
08-26-2012, 08:35 PM
Let's hope someone better than Hector Santiago is taking Floyd's job next season.

Santiago seems on par with Floyd at least this year when Gavin's been sub-par. And there's much more upside potential for Santiago than Floyd.

kittle42
08-26-2012, 08:42 PM
Santiago seems on par with Floyd at least this year when Gavin's been sub-par. And there's much more upside potential for Santiago than Floyd.

I was saying I'd prefer a better third option who is currently not on the team.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2012, 09:31 PM
Just saw some video with Floyd. Paraphrasing what he said:

* Elbow felt like it had been for a while now which I assume means he's been having issues with it.

* Then it started to feel like it did when he went on the DL.

* Said he told the Sox about it and he wanted to go back out there but they took him out.

* MRI on Monday.

Lip

doublem23
08-26-2012, 09:32 PM
Floyd, such a headcase, he went out and hurt his elbow. Not CHICAGO TOUGH enough, amirite, guys???

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

SpartanSoxFan
08-26-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm sorry, but Floyd can't be trusted. I feel about as good about him taking the bump as I did with Javy Vasquez pitching in Minnesota with the division title at stake. As it would require the Sox to pick up an option to bring him back, this one is a no-brainer. I would much rather have Liriano back instead.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2012, 10:00 PM
Robin basically rules Floyd out for his start in Detroit:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120826&content_id=37389024&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

I wonder if the rainy weather kicked up his inflammation today. I know when it's rainy or damp or cold my lower back bites me a lot.

Again it will be interesting to see how Kenny plays the Floyd card this off season. I would not be surprised if the Sox let him go although if they do they better have some replacements, other options to fall back on even mediocre ones... (which they already have a few of those in my opinion.)

I saw on another site a poster who brought up an intersting option...could the Sox get a starter in the next few days via the waiver route? He listed the teams ahead of the Sox in the league and posted if he thought they'd try to block a claim or not. Not all of them would in his opinion.

Lip

RadioheadRocks
08-26-2012, 10:06 PM
Let's hope someone better than Hector Santiago is taking Floyd's job next season.

I'll be happy with anyone better than Floyd taking Floyd's place.

SpartanSoxFan
08-26-2012, 10:06 PM
Robin basically rules Floyd out for his start in Detroit:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120826&content_id=37389024&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

I wonder if the rainy weather kicked up his inflammation today. I know when it's rainy or damp or cold my lower back bites me a lot.

Again it will be interesting to see how Kenny plays the Floyd card this off season. I would not be surprised if the Sox let him go although if they do they better have some replacements, other options to fall back on even mediocre ones... (which they already have a few of those in my opinion.)

I saw on another site a poster who brought up an intersting option...could the Sox get a starter in the next few days via the waiver route? He listed the teams ahead of the Sox in the league and posted if he thought they'd try to block a claim or not. Not all of them would in his opinion.

Lip

I think Kenny might have to do such a deal. Who do you think Kenny might have on his radar?

Tragg
08-26-2012, 10:31 PM
Hector Santiago is going to take Floyd's job next season.

I will be glad to see him go.

I'm more concerned about who's going to take Peavy and Liriano's spots.

TaylorStSox
08-26-2012, 10:40 PM
Floyd, such a headcase, he went out and hurt his elbow. Not CHICAGO TOUGH enough, amirite, guys???

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah, this thread basically sucks.

WhiteSox5187
08-26-2012, 10:44 PM
Yeah, this thread basically sucks.

The point of the thread isn't "Oh Floyd isn't tough," but rather wondering what impact this injury will have on Floyd's future with the team. He has been struggling with injuries the past couple of years and along with his maddening inconsistency it might spell the end of Gavin's stay with the Sox.

TaylorStSox
08-26-2012, 11:21 PM
The point of the thread isn't "Oh Floyd isn't tough," but rather wondering what impact this injury will have on Floyd's future with the team. He has been struggling with injuries the past couple of years and along with his maddening inconsistency it might spell the end of Gavin's stay with the Sox.

I'm not a big fan of speculating about a player's desire, effort, toughness etc. If he's hurt, he's hurt.

JB98
08-27-2012, 12:18 AM
If Humber needs to take Floyd's spot, send Phil out there Thursday against Baltimore. I'd rather not see Humber start the opening game in Detroit.

LoveYourSuit
08-27-2012, 07:23 AM
If Humber needs to take Floyd's spot, send Phil out there Thursday against Baltimore. I'd rather not see Humber start the opening game in Detroit.

It would give Quintana a much needed extra day too. We would have Quintana, Liriano, Sale going vs Det. I would take that all day.

Hitmen77
08-27-2012, 08:47 AM
If Humber needs to take Floyd's spot, send Phil out there Thursday against Baltimore. I'd rather not see Humber start the opening game in Detroit.

I agree.

If Floyd needs to go on the DL, they can also recall Dylan Axelrod. At the very least, we'll probably see Axelrod up here when the rosters expand on Saturday.

Foulke You
08-27-2012, 11:24 AM
If Humber needs to take Floyd's spot, send Phil out there Thursday against Baltimore. I'd rather not see Humber start the opening game in Detroit.
This was the first thought that popped in my head when I saw Floyd leave the game early. I really don't want Humber starting Game 1 in Detroit. It is such an important game and you really don't want to give Detroit momentum by throwing a pitcher they have already clobbered this year in the very first game. Humber's last start at Comerica this season didn't go so well. He lasted 3 innings, gave up 6 earned runs, 7 hits, and 4 of those hits were HRs.:o: I'd be for shuffling the rotation to let Quintana pitch Friday. If not, I'd rather take my chances with a Hector Santiago spot start.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2012, 11:29 AM
Phil Rogers says this morning the Sox might start Humber Wednesday in Baltimore and move Peavy to Friday.

The way the rotation would line up would give Peavy two starts against Detroit (to go along with Sale's two) in the seven remaining games.

If they don't they'll just have to rely on Sale's two starts.

Also Van Dyke says (how he knows already is beyond me) that Floyd is likely headed to the DL with elbow issues.

Lip

hawkjt
08-27-2012, 11:53 AM
Phil Rogers says this morning the Sox might start Humbert Wednesday in Baltimore and move Peavy to Friday.

The way the rotation would line up would give Peavy two starts against Detroit (to go along with Sale's two) in the seven remaining games.

If they don't they'll just have to rely on Sale's two starts.

Also Van Dyke says (how he knows already is beyond me) that Floyd is likely headed to the DL with elbow issues.

Lip

I like the sound of this plan.

As for Gavin...clearly he is not ''faking'' it.
Fans have short memories.

Gavin's numbers from June 20- August 20....10 starts, 7 quality starts,5-2 record, 3.35 ERA,with Sox winning 7 of those games. This is a record of a bum? He is having a mediocre year,with some arm issues,but he is 9-9 4.45 ERA,and as our 5th starter,this is a disaster? He has a great record vs Detroit in his career,so missing his start on Friday vs the Tigers is a big blow. Hopefully,he will be ready to face them when they come to Chicago later next month. Sox need a righty to go against the righthanded heavy Tigers and Rangers. Peavy is not enough.

For some reason, media and fans have decided to make Gavin the whipping boy...he has struggled,yes,but to be cheering his injury,as some fans seem to do, is overboard. He is still an important guy for this teams success,mark my words.

JB98
08-27-2012, 12:08 PM
It would give Quintana a much needed extra day too. We would have Quintana, Liriano, Sale going vs Det. I would take that all day.

Agreed. Detroit has a team OPS of .721 against lefties, as opposed to .781 against righties. I'm on board with coming at the Tigers with three left-handed starters.

There's an argument to be made you back Peavy up to start the opener in Detroit. He has more experience than Quintana. However, the Tigers have already faced Jake three times this season. They have never faced Quintana. That might be an advantage for Jose, especially early in the ballgame. I don't think he'll be rattled by the magnitude of the start. He has shown a lot of poise for a rookie. I'd give him the ball Friday. Humber should start Thursday in Baltimore.

Nellie_Fox
08-27-2012, 01:26 PM
For some reason, media and fans have decided to make Gavin the whipping boy...Somebody gets chosen for that role every year. Since the Sox are winning this year, it's been a little less pronounced.

kittle42
08-27-2012, 01:39 PM
Somebody gets chosen for that role every year. Since the Sox are winning this year, it's been a little less pronounced.

Plus, the Sox have been good with not leaving guys who suck in prominent roles long enough for the fans to want their heads. Youkilis came in when we didn't have a competent 3B. Humber was demoted to the pen right around the right time for it to happen.

Since no one is having a REALLY crappy year that wasn't already addressed in some manner, Floyd becomes a target because many are fed up with years of inconsistent starts. I don't know that he's much of a media target, because is the media really targeting the Sox at all?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-27-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm more concerned about who's going to take Peavy and Liriano's spots.

Hopefully Peavy takes Peavy's spot, and Liriano can be pretty much easily replaced by any middle of the rotation starter.

asindc
08-27-2012, 02:08 PM
Plus, the Sox have been good with not leaving guys who suck in prominent roles long enough for the fans to want their heads. Youkilis came in when we didn't have a competent 3B. Humber was demoted to the pen right around the right time for it to happen.

Since no one is having a REALLY crappy year that wasn't already addressed in some manner, Floyd becomes a target because many are fed up with years of inconsistent starts. I don't know that he's much of a media target, because is the media really targeting the Sox at all?

Yeah, this year is marked somewhat by a new management philosophy in which "We've seen enough of this crap" has become a consistent operating strategy. In some ways, it has seemed to inspire the players who have been perfoming since early in the season. RV certainly seems to have a great feel for the clubhouse, much better than you-know-who. At any rate, the tone set this year has not given us fans nor the media much to bitch about. Then there's the winning, of course...

Winning Cures All.

The Immigrant
08-27-2012, 02:21 PM
Plus, the Sox have been good with not leaving guys who suck in prominent roles long enough for the fans to want their heads. Youkilis came in when we didn't have a competent 3B. Humber was demoted to the pen right around the right time for it to happen.

Since no one is having a REALLY crappy year that wasn't already addressed in some manner, Floyd becomes a target because many are fed up with years of inconsistent starts. I don't know that he's much of a media target, because is the media really targeting the Sox at all?

Great post.

TDog
08-27-2012, 02:29 PM
Somebody gets chosen for that role every year. Since the Sox are winning this year, it's been a little less pronounced.

Wise might have been a good candidate when he was called up, old habits dying hard, but he has done well enough to shake the tag, even though he has started many more games than his supporters imagined he would.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-27-2012, 02:40 PM
Wise might have been a good candidate when he was called up, old habits dying hard, but he has done well enough to shake the tag, even though he has started many more games than his supporters imagined he would.

At least this time it's due to necessity (De Aza injury) and not due to manager foolhardiness (Ozzie squeezing a square peg in a round hole for most of the season)

delben91
08-27-2012, 02:46 PM
Phil Rogers says this morning the Sox might start Humber Wednesday in Baltimore and move Peavy to Friday.

The way the rotation would line up would give Peavy two starts against Detroit (to go along with Sale's two) in the seven remaining games.

If they don't they'll just have to rely on Sale's two starts.

Also Van Dyke says (how he knows already is beyond me) that Floyd is likely headed to the DL with elbow issues.

Lip

Are you saying the only potential wins for Sox v. Tigers are the two games Sale starts and the rest are gimme losses unless Peavy starts?

Quintana and Liriano may not be automatic, but I'd hardly chalk their starts up as automatic losses, Detroit doesn't have many automatic starters themselves...

TaylorStSox
08-27-2012, 02:53 PM
Plus, the Sox have been good with not leaving guys who suck in prominent roles long enough for the fans to want their heads. Youkilis came in when we didn't have a competent 3B. Humber was demoted to the pen right around the right time for it to happen.

Since no one is having a REALLY crappy year that wasn't already addressed in some manner, Floyd becomes a target because many are fed up with years of inconsistent starts. I don't know that he's much of a media target, because is the media really targeting the Sox at all?

Is "suck" not a strong enough word for Beckham?

kittle42
08-27-2012, 02:58 PM
Is "suck" not a strong enough word for Beckham?

Can't disagree, but looking at most of the AL lineups, someone at the bottom blows. At least our guy is a near gold glover. The key is not having more than one of those.

doublem23
08-27-2012, 02:59 PM
Is "suck" not a strong enough word for Beckham?

I guess not since he's an A++ defender and people seem to have unrealistically high expectations from their 2B offensively, the league average 2B is hitting .247/.310/.365. There's only a few teams in the league that have dynamic offensive players at 2B, and there's a lot of range to their place in the standings so having a 2B that can hit is clearly not a priority in the present day AL.

TaylorStSox
08-27-2012, 03:18 PM
I guess not since he's an A++ defender and people seem to have unrealistically high expectations from their 2B offensively, the league average 2B is hitting .247/.310/.365. There's only a few teams in the league that have dynamic offensive players at 2B, and there's a lot of range to their place in the standings so having a 2B that can hit is clearly not a priority in the present day AL.
I was joking. Although I wouldn't call him an A++ defender. He has a plus arm, good glove and limited range. He's great at turning the DP and going to his left. He's not very good up the middle. Having Ramirez next to him helps as his range is fantastic. Beckham's a very good defender, but let's not go crazy.

*edit*
I forgot to add that he's very good at positioning himself as well.

SCCWS
08-27-2012, 03:38 PM
I was joking. Although I wouldn't call him an A++ defender. He has a plus arm, good glove and limited range. He's great at turning the DP and going to his left. He's not very good up the middle. Having Ramirez next to him helps as his range is fantastic. Beckham's a very good defender, but let's not go crazy.

*edit*
I forgot to add that he's very good at positioning himself as well.


well said.

Nellie_Fox
08-27-2012, 03:42 PM
Wise might have been a good candidate when he was called up, old habits dying hard, but he has done well enough to shake the tag, even though he has started many more games than his supporters imagined he would.Yeah, but if he had gotten off to a shaky start, the tar buckets would have been boiling while the feathers and the riding rail would have been at the ready.

kittle42
08-27-2012, 03:50 PM
Yeah, but if he had gotten off to a shaky start, the tar buckets would have been boiling while the feathers and the riding rail would have been at the ready.

Which is of course silly, because Jordan Danks is basically the same player, except maybe worse. We don't know yet.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2012, 04:47 PM
Delben:

No... I'm saying bumping Peavy gives your top two starters four shots at Detroit. If they don't bump him your top two starters will only get two shots.

Lip

KenBerryGrab
08-27-2012, 04:55 PM
MRI finds a muscle strain for Floyd.

LoveYourSuit
08-27-2012, 05:20 PM
MRI finds a muscle strain for Floyd.


I don't think there is one pitcher out there today who is not suffering from "muscle strain" after pitching.

delben91
08-27-2012, 05:58 PM
I don't think there is one pitcher out there today who is not suffering from "muscle strain" after pitching.

I'm no doctor, but I do know in some cases the term "strain" actually refers to a partial tear.

That might just be for ligaments though, or I could be completely wrong.

kobo
08-27-2012, 06:02 PM
I don't think there is one pitcher out there today who is not suffering from "muscle strain" after pitching.
So in other words you have no idea and just want to call Floyd a ***** without actually calling him a *****.

JB98
08-27-2012, 06:05 PM
If a guy says he's hurt and can't go, I have no problem with that. Better to admit you're hurting than to stay out there and get your ass kicked.

TDog
08-27-2012, 06:20 PM
I guess not since he's an A++ defender and people seem to have unrealistically high expectations from their 2B offensively, the league average 2B is hitting .247/.310/.365. There's only a few teams in the league that have dynamic offensive players at 2B, and there's a lot of range to their place in the standings so having a 2B that can hit is clearly not a priority in the present day AL.

I agree that Beckham is an A++ defender. I don't think there is a better defensive second baseman in the league right now.

As for Beckham's offense, I don't believe it's really been as bad as many suggest. He has had some big hits, and is hitting .263 with runner in scoring position, driving in 30 baserunners in such situations. That isn't great, and it isn't close to the team leader, but it isn't so bad when you consider the team leader in RBIs, in more than 25 chances, is hitting about 60 points lower with runners in scoring position and has only driven in five more base runners in those situations.

Factor in both his defense and some clutch hits in close games, and you have to consider Beckham one of the reasons the White Sox are in first place.

mzh
08-27-2012, 06:25 PM
Seattle just put Vargas and Millwood on waivers, per MLBTR. If Floyd needs to be put on the shelf I wouldn't be against trying to pick up either one of them.

Mohoney
08-27-2012, 06:44 PM
Wise might have been a good candidate when he was called up, old habits dying hard, but he has done well enough to shake the tag, even though he has started many more games than his supporters imagined he would.

He's getting the starts because one of the best leadoff men in the AL is on the DL.

LoveYourSuit
08-27-2012, 06:48 PM
So in other words you have no idea and just want to call Floyd a ***** without actually calling him a *****.


Yes, I guess.

TaylorStSox
08-27-2012, 07:35 PM
I agree that Beckham is an A++ defender. I don't think there is a better defensive second baseman in the league right now.

As for Beckham's offense, I don't believe it's really been as bad as many suggest. He has had some big hits, and is hitting .263 with runner in scoring position, driving in 30 baserunners in such situations. That isn't great, and it isn't close to the team leader, but it isn't so bad when you consider the team leader in RBIs, in more than 25 chances, is hitting about 60 points lower with runners in scoring position and has only driven in five more base runners in those situations.

Factor in both his defense and some clutch hits in close games, and you have to consider Beckham one of the reasons the White Sox are in first place.

Replace Beckham with Ramirez and you might be onto something.

PaleHoser
08-27-2012, 08:01 PM
Phil Rogers says this morning the Sox might start Humber Wednesday in Baltimore and move Peavy to Friday.

The way the rotation would line up would give Peavy two starts against Detroit (to go along with Sale's two) in the seven remaining games.


Like.

Tribune reports (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-detroit-series-looming-larger-for-sox-after-floyds-elbow-strain-peavys-start-moved-to-friday-20120827,0,579516.story) Peavy's start will be moved to Friday and that Axelrod was scratched from his start tonight.

kittle42
08-27-2012, 08:25 PM
Seattle just put Vargas and Millwood on waivers, per MLBTR. If Floyd needs to be put on the shelf I wouldn't be against trying to pick up either one of them.

I have a feeling both are claimed before it gets to the Sox.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2012, 10:17 PM
Question...has the Brewers Shawn Marcum been placed on waivers yet?

I'm beginning to pick up on some talk tonight and am looking for additional info.

Thanks,

Lip

Hartman
08-28-2012, 06:35 AM
Elbow discomfort? How about eyeball discomfort when I have to watch this guy pitch.

seventyseven
08-28-2012, 09:30 AM
I have a feeling both are claimed before it gets to the Sox.

Add Bedard and Dice-K to the waiver list.

Golden Sox
08-28-2012, 10:30 AM
If Gavin Floyd is not going to be pitching for us, I have a simple solution. Bring back Mark Buehrle to the White Sox. MLB Trade Rumors is saying you can get Buehrle for next to nothing now. They're claiming he might be moved to the Dodgers this week. If thats the case why not bring him back to Chicago on the great Southside? From a PR standpoint it would be a wonderful thing plus it would probably get the White Sox into the playoffs this year.

Lip Man 1
08-28-2012, 10:45 AM
The issue isn't this year though...it's the remaining three years on his contract at a very large amount for a pitcher who is in his mid 30's.

Lip

kittle42
08-28-2012, 11:03 AM
If Gavin Floyd is not going to be pitching for us, I have a simple solution. Bring back Mark Buehrle to the White Sox. MLB Trade Rumors is saying you can get Buehrle for next to nothing now. They're claiming he might be moved to the Dodgers this week. If thats the case why not bring him back to Chicago on the great Southside? From a PR standpoint it would be a wonderful thing plus it would probably get the White Sox into the playoffs this year.

Who wants that contract? Not the Sox. LAD apparently found a winning lottery ticket.

asindc
08-28-2012, 11:08 AM
Who wants that contract? Not the Sox. LAD apparently found a winning lottery ticket.

Apparently, not the Marlins, either, which most people predicted when it was signed.

DSpivack
08-28-2012, 12:43 PM
Who wants that contract? Not the Sox. LAD apparently found a winning lottery ticket.

TV deal north of $4 billion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/27/baseball-dodgers-tv-idUSL1E8JR18S20120827

TDog
08-28-2012, 01:05 PM
If Gavin Floyd is not going to be pitching for us, I have a simple solution. Bring back Mark Buehrle to the White Sox. MLB Trade Rumors is saying you can get Buehrle for next to nothing now. They're claiming he might be moved to the Dodgers this week. If thats the case why not bring him back to Chicago on the great Southside? From a PR standpoint it would be a wonderful thing plus it would probably get the White Sox into the playoffs this year.

I resented that the Marlins offered Mark Buehrle such unrealistic money to take him away from the Sox. I resented that the Marlins, having done so, gave up on the season and decided to become a Dodgers farm team. Obviously, he certainly isn't going to kick back any salary to return to the White Sox.

Buehrle probably wouldn't have signed with the Dodgers in the offseason, and he may have some say as to where he goes if the Marlins want to deal him. But one would think the chance to get back to go to a serious contender, who has to be considered a contender in the next few years, the chance to win a World Series game to go along with his save, would be enticing.

Oddly enough, he would have to take a pay cut to take his current contract to the Dodgers because California taxes are higher than Florida taxes. I don't know if that would factor into Buehrle's decision to accept a trade to the Dodgers, assuming he has a no-trade or limited-trade clause in his contract.

Hitmen77
08-28-2012, 01:12 PM
I resented that the Marlins offered Mark Buehrle such unrealistic money to take him away from the Sox. I resented that the Marlins, having done so, gave up on the season and decided to become a Dodgers farm team. Obviously, he certainly isn't going to kick back any salary to return to the White Sox.

Buehrle probably wouldn't have signed with the Dodgers in the offseason, and he may have some say as to where he goes if the Marlins want to deal him. But one would think the chance to get back to go to a serious contender, who has to be considered a contender in the next few years, the chance to win a World Series game to go along with his save, would be enticing.

Oddly enough, he would have to take a pay cut to take his current contract to the Dodgers because California taxes are higher than Florida taxes. I don't know if that would factor into Buehrle's decision to accept a trade to the Dodgers, assuming he has a no-trade or limited-trade clause in his contract.

Cot's doesn't mention any such clause in Buehrle's current contract:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=82

If he doesn't have any veto rights, then they can trade him to the Dodgers, Yankees, or Red Sox. Those are 3 teams that I could see taking on the final 3 years of his contract. It's not like Mark has hit a big decline in performance yet.

kittle42
08-28-2012, 01:18 PM
Apparently, not the Marlins, either, which most people predicted when it was signed.

But I thought the Sox were just being cheap?

asindc
08-28-2012, 01:24 PM
I resented that the Marlins offered Mark Buehrle such unrealistic money to take him away from the Sox. I resented that the Marlins, having done so, gave up on the season and decided to become a Dodgers farm team. Obviously, he certainly isn't going to kick back any salary to return to the White Sox.

Buehrle probably wouldn't have signed with the Dodgers in the offseason, and he may have some say as to where he goes if the Marlins want to deal him. But one would think the chance to get back to go to a serious contender, who has to be considered a contender in the next few years, the chance to win a World Series game to go along with his save, would be enticing.

Oddly enough, he would have to take a pay cut to take his current contract to the Dodgers because California taxes are higher than Florida taxes. I don't know if that would factor into Buehrle's decision to accept a trade to the Dodgers, assuming he has a no-trade or limited-trade clause in his contract.

I think what you are alluding to is Florida having no state income tax while California does. It is only an issue if Buehrle has established his primary residence in Florida and then re-establishes his primary residence in California.

The Immigrant
08-28-2012, 01:31 PM
I resented that the Marlins offered Mark Buehrle such unrealistic money to take him away from the Sox.

Just wait until the Dodgers offer a 5 year/$90 million deal to A.J. this offseason. :tongue:

Nellie_Fox
08-28-2012, 01:38 PM
I think what you are alluding to is Florida having no state income tax while California does. It is only an issue if Buehrle has established his primary residence in Florida and then re-establishes his primary residence in California.I believe that's not true, that athletes have to pay taxes in every state they play in (and thus earn money in) based on the percentage of their salary that was earned in that state. So, instead of 81 games being in tax-free Florida, it would be 81 games in heavily-taxed California. The tax situation for pro athletes is extremely complex.

cws05champ
08-28-2012, 01:50 PM
Who wants that contract? Not the Sox. LAD apparently found a winning lottery ticket.

But if the Marlins are willing to eat, say 30% of the contract....you could have Buehrle for the rest of this year for about $800K the rest of this year, in 13 for $7.7M, 2014 for $12.6M, and 2015 for $13.3M which is still too long but not unreasonable.

TheOldRoman
08-28-2012, 02:03 PM
I believe that's not true, that athletes have to pay taxes in every state they play in (and thus earn money in) based on the percentage of their salary that was earned in that state. So, instead of 81 games being in tax-free Florida, it would be 81 games in heavily-taxed California. The tax situation for pro athletes is extremely complex.Yep. They also have to pay Canadian taxes for games played in Toronto.

PorkChopExpress
08-28-2012, 02:54 PM
Question...has the Brewers Shawn Marcum been placed on waivers yet?

I'm beginning to pick up on some talk tonight and am looking for additional info.

Thanks,

Lip

I saw the Orioles picked up Randy Wolf. Any chance the talk you're picking up has to do with that Brewers pitcher on his way to Baltimore for the other team?

Lip Man 1
08-28-2012, 03:01 PM
Pork:

Nope, completely different.

Lip

asindc
08-28-2012, 03:26 PM
I believe that's not true, that athletes have to pay taxes in every state they play in (and thus earn money in) based on the percentage of their salary that was earned in that state. So, instead of 81 games being in tax-free Florida, it would be 81 games in heavily-taxed California. The tax situation for pro athletes is extremely complex.

Yes, you are correct. I forgot about that. Anyone earning a substantial portion of his salary in most states must pay income tax in that state, regardless of residence.

PorkChopExpress
08-29-2012, 12:33 PM
Pork:

Nope, completely different.

Lip

OK. I see on mlbtraderumors.com that Shaun Marcum has been placed on waivers. I am now officially intrigued by your post. Care to share any insight?