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View Full Version : Chris Sale: 2012 AL CY? 20 wins?


Frater Perdurabo
08-22-2012, 09:52 PM
A rough count of our remaining games suggests Sale is on track for seven more starts, and thus would be on schedule and fully rested to start game 1 of the ALDS (or game 163, if needed).

What are the chances he wins the AL Cy Young Award?

How about five more wins to reach 20?

Discuss...

palehozenychicty
08-22-2012, 09:55 PM
I feel like Price is the heir apparent after finishing second last year. Anybody have a stat line comparison ready?

DSpivack
08-22-2012, 09:58 PM
It's possible (ESPN even projects him to 20-5), but I think he'll get more rest in September.

Moses_Scurry
08-22-2012, 09:59 PM
Between Verlander, Price, Weaver, and even King Felix, he'll have some stiff competition. It's been a great year for AL starters. I could also see them skipping another start before the season is over. He pretty much needs to dominate every start the rest of the way.

If he misses out on the Cy Young, but leads the Sox to a World Series victory, it will be a good consolation prize!

DumpJerry
08-22-2012, 09:59 PM
I don't think he'll get Cy or 20, but he'll be in the top 5 in the Cy voting. I think Weaver is in the lead for Cy.

Boondock Saint
08-22-2012, 09:59 PM
It's gonna be tough to beat out Verlander, Price and Weaver for Cy Young. 20 wins will be tough, but doable.

palehozenychicty
08-22-2012, 10:01 PM
I feel like David Price is the heir apparent after finishing second last year. It could be very close. Does anybody have stat comparisons?

WLL1855
08-22-2012, 10:04 PM
I feel like David Price is the heir apparent after finishing second last year. It could be very close. Does anybody have stat comparisons?

Did you post the same thing twice intentionally?

kobo
08-22-2012, 10:05 PM
Sale is in the top 5, but I think the award will go to either Price or Weaver. Regardless, if this is what is to come with Sale I'm extremely excited for the future.

Bob Roarman
08-22-2012, 10:16 PM
He's right up there. I don't think he'll need 20 wins to win it if he continues what he's doing.

JB98
08-22-2012, 10:28 PM
You can't count Felix Hernandez out of the Cy Young race either. He's been lights out the second half. Sale is definitely in the mix, although I think he trails Price and Weaver at the moment.

He'll definitely be top five in the voting.

amsteel
08-22-2012, 10:30 PM
They'll give it to a more established guy.

A good set up for the coming years, though.

Boondock Saint
08-22-2012, 10:31 PM
He's right up there. I don't think he'll need 20 wins to win it if he continues what he's doing.

I think that in a tight race, voters have a tendency to give the award to players who haven't won the award over players who have won it already, and veteran pitchers over younger guys, with the logic behind it being that the younger guy will end up with one sooner or later, while the window for the veteran will be closing sooner. So I think the order right now is Weaver, Price, Sale, Verlander, Felix, with Price potentially being #1.

CoopaLoop
08-22-2012, 10:34 PM
Tough to go against a guy who hasn't pitched less than 7 innings and given up more than 3 runs since June 13th. That man is David Price.

Saracen
08-22-2012, 10:35 PM
Price is tied with Weaver in wins, has an ERA half a run lower, and plays for a good team - unlike the Angels. Not sure why Weaver would win it.

I think it's Price's to lose.

Bob Roarman
08-22-2012, 10:40 PM
I think that in a tight race, voters have a tendency to give the award to players who haven't won the award over players who have won it already, and veteran pitchers over younger guys, with the logic behind it being that the younger guy will end up with one sooner or later, while the window for the veteran will be closing sooner. So I think the order right now is Weaver, Price, Sale, Verlander, Felix, with Price potentially being #1.

I should always preface posts in these topics with "if voters were sane/fair". Not that I don't agree that Price is probably the front runner right now, pitching wins shouldn't play as big a part in it as was previously believed. Though they restored some confidence when Felix won it over Sabathia a couple years ago.

Noneck
08-22-2012, 10:45 PM
It will be tough to win but it doesnt matter. He is the Sox future and hopefully will win it more than once in the upcoming years.

BNLSox
08-22-2012, 11:56 PM
Maybe we'll have a Price v. Sale showdown the last week of the season during our 4 game series with the Rays. Winner of that could get the nod.

soxnut1018
08-23-2012, 12:17 AM
Sale has a shot if he's lights out in September and Price has a few rough outings, but it's definitely Price's to lose.

palehozenychicty
08-23-2012, 12:25 AM
Did you post the same thing twice intentionally?

Nah. My connection blows right now.

S-SideTrifecta
08-23-2012, 02:15 AM
Sale should be a front runner, but IMO he won't mainly because he plays for the White Sox.

DonnieDarko
08-23-2012, 07:14 AM
Sale should be a front runner, but IMO he won't mainly because he plays for the White Sox.

Why should he be the frontrunner? What statistically has Sale done better than Price that should get him the Cy Young nod? Or is that just your fandom talking?

jdm2662
08-23-2012, 07:54 AM
Why should he be the frontrunner? What statistically has Sale done better than Price that should get him the Cy Young nod? Or is that just your fandom talking?

Because the whole world is against the White Sox. Just ask Hawk.

Sale has been excellent this year, but Weaver and Price have been a little better. There is nothing wrong with pointing this out. You can also make a case for Felix, too. OF course, Felix plays on a team with a ****ty offense. But, he's been on fire lately.

TaylorStSox
08-23-2012, 08:29 AM
It's too early to tell. All these guys are one bad start away from falling out of the race.

Lip Man 1
08-23-2012, 08:34 AM
It's certainly possible.

Lip

Saracen
08-23-2012, 09:48 AM
Why should he be the frontrunner? What statistically has Sale done better than Price that should get him the Cy Young nod? Or is that just your fandom talking?
In all fairness, he said a frontrunner, not the frontrunner. Sale is certainly one of 5 frontrunners I can think of, but hasn't been as good as Price or Weaver. As to bias against the Sox, please. In my lifetime I've seen Hoyt & Blackjack win Cy Youngs, Big Frank win 2 MVP's, Dick Allen win one, and Kittle & Ozzie win rookie of the year. There's no anti-Sox bias.

Harry Potter
08-23-2012, 09:48 AM
Because the whole world is against the White Sox. Just ask Hawk.

Sale has been excellent this year, but Weaver and Price have been a little better. There is nothing wrong with pointing this out. You can also make a case for Felix, too. OF course, Felix plays on a team with a ****ty offense. But, he's been on fire lately.

And Felix also won the CY Young back in 2010 with a 13-12 record, albeit with a 2.27 ERA on a bad Seattle team.

DonnieDarko
08-23-2012, 09:51 AM
In all fairness, he said a frontrunner, not the frontrunner. Sale is certainly one of 5 frontrunners I can think of, but hasn't been as good as Price or Weaver. As to bias against the Sox, please. In my lifetime I've seen Hoyt & Blackjack win Cy Youngs, Big Frank win 2 MVP's, Dick Allen win one, and Kittle & Ozzie win rookie of the year. There's no anti-Sox bias.

I wasn't accusing you of anti-Sox bias, rather pro-Sox bias potentially clouding your opinion.

And I've always understood the word "frontrunner" to mean #1, hence why I took that statement as a bit odd. *shrug*

Saracen
08-23-2012, 10:01 AM
I wasn't accusing you of anti-Sox bias, rather pro-Sox bias potentially clouding your opinion.

And I've always understood the word "frontrunner" to mean #1, hence why I took that statement as a bit odd. *shrug*
Wasn't my statement.

DonnieDarko
08-23-2012, 10:02 AM
...you're right.

Dammit, I need more coffee.

chicagowhitesox1
08-23-2012, 10:04 AM
Sale and Price are pretty close when you take account which ballparks they both play in and defense. The Sox don't make many errors but they don't have alot of range either. Sale and Price are right there with each other in most categorys.

Chris Sale
15-4w/l 2.65era 153ip 122hits 150k 163era+ 1.033whip 2.1bb/9 8.8k/9 7.2h/9 5.4war
David Price
16-4w/l 2.28era 170ip 132hits 167k 164era+ 1.071whip 2.6bb/9 8.8k/9 7.0h/9 5.3war

Dibbs
08-23-2012, 10:07 AM
He is in the running. These awards are political, and unfortunately I think Sale would have to be the clear option if he was to win it. Obviously right now he would not win the award.

kittle42
08-23-2012, 10:43 AM
Sale should be a front runner, but IMO he won't mainly because he plays for the White Sox.

Are the Rays so favored by the media that David Price would beat him out unfairly? GMAB.

Here are your last 10 AL Cy Young winners. I fail to see the media darlings.

2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Major_League_Baseball_season) Barry Zito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Zito) Oakland Athletics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Athletics) 23–5 0 2.75 182 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Major_League_Baseball_season) Roy Halladay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Halladay) Toronto Blue Jays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Blue_Jays) 22–7 0 3.25 204 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Major_League_Baseball_season) Johan Santana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Santana) Minnesota Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins) 20–6 0 2.61 265 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Major_League_Baseball_season) Bartolo Colón (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolo_Col%C3%B3n) Los Angeles Angels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Angels) 21–8 0 3.48 157 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Major_League_Baseball_season) Johan Santana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Santana) Minnesota Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins) 19–6 0 2.77 265 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Major_League_Baseball_season) C.C. Sabathia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.C._Sabathia) Cleveland Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians) 19–7 0 3.21 209 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Major_League_Baseball_season) Cliff Lee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Lee) Cleveland Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians) 22–3 0 2.54 170 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Major_League_Baseball_season) Zack Greinke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zack_Greinke) Kansas City Royals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Royals) 16–8 0 2.16 242 2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Major_League_Baseball_season) Félix Hernández (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_Hern%C3%A1ndez) Seattle Mariners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Mariners) 13–12 0 2.27 232 2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Major_League_Baseball_season) Justin Verlander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Verlander)* Detroit Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Tigers)

soxfan123
08-23-2012, 10:53 AM
Felix and Verlander are 1 win ahead of Price and Sale.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=al&qual=y&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=&age=&filter=&players=

jdm2662
08-23-2012, 10:54 AM
And Felix also won the CY Young back in 2010 with a 13-12 record, albeit with a 2.27 ERA on a bad Seattle team.

And that was awesome to see as he was clearly the best pitcher in the league. This year, he is still awesome, but others have been just as good, too. So, I think his win total this year will be used against him, unless the other three take huge nose dives.

hawkjt
08-23-2012, 10:54 AM
I think Weaver was leading,until he had a couple of hiccups lately,which now makes Price the leader.

I think Chris is in the top 3,but at this point,I think Price probably has been a hair better,mainly because he is older,stronger,and more mature,hence more innings. If Price stumbles,I think we have a dogfight.

delben91
08-23-2012, 11:17 AM
According to this piece (http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8294904/the-white-sox-say-sticking-plan-cy-young-candidate-chris-sale) on espn.com, there are "sources" within the organization saying they're still weighing having Sale skip one more start between now and the end of the year.

Harry Potter
08-23-2012, 11:36 AM
According to this piece (http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8294904/the-white-sox-say-sticking-plan-cy-young-candidate-chris-sale) on espn.com, there are "sources" within the organization saying they're still weighing having Sale skip one more start between now and the end of the year.

Any time Bruce Levine and "his sources" are mentioned in the same sentence, I immediately question the credibility of any statement.

DumpJerry
08-23-2012, 12:17 PM
I think the one thing that will work against Sale getting Cy this year is his age. The voters are probably thinking that he's a stud who will perform like this for while, but the Weaver, etc. are older and will start slowing down so they should get one now.

kittle42
08-23-2012, 12:52 PM
According to this piece (http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8294904/the-white-sox-say-sticking-plan-cy-young-candidate-chris-sale) on espn.com, there are "sources" within the organization saying they're still weighing having Sale skip one more start between now and the end of the year.

As they probably should.

samurai_sox
08-23-2012, 01:02 PM
The Cy Young is on Sale for the right Price. :redneck

WLL1855
08-23-2012, 05:54 PM
As they probably should.

Based on what evidence? Just for the hell of it?

We're in a dogfight for the division. I want our best pitcher on the hill every time his turn is up.

kittle42
08-23-2012, 09:35 PM
Based on what evidence? Just for the hell of it?

We're in a dogfight for the division. I want our best pitcher on the hill every time his turn is up.

Based on the same reason other teams do it.

sullythered
08-23-2012, 09:47 PM
As they probably should.

Yeah, I don't know how to quantify how many innings he should pitch, or whatever, but I saw the guy throwing an 89 mph fastball for a start. We sat him for a start, and he came back throwing 95. He clearly needed some rest, and I'd rather give it to him now than regret it in the playoffs.

kittle42
08-23-2012, 09:50 PM
Yeah, I don't know how to quantify how many innings he should pitch, or whatever, but I saw the guy throwing an 89 mph fastball for a start. We sat him for a start, and he came back throwing 95. He clearly needed some rest, and I'd rather give it to him now than regret it in the playoffs.

There are some studies, which most here would dismiss as bunk because in the old days, they used to have four-man rotations and so-and-so threw 170 pitches a start, but I agree.

soxfanreggie
08-24-2012, 01:13 PM
Right now I'd give it to Price. There's a lot of baseball to be thrown though for these guys, and one bad outing could take them out of contention.

Sale could get some more votes though if the Rays fail to make the playoffs and Sale pitches us in over the Tigers.

doublem23
08-24-2012, 02:04 PM
Are the Rays so favored by the media that David Price would beat him out unfairly? GMAB.

Uh, yeah, the Rays get a lot of EC media love because they "do things the right way." Just by benefit of being in the AL East, I'd say they get a lot more media love than the Sox.

kittle42
08-24-2012, 03:04 PM
Uh, yeah, the Rays get a lot of EC media love because they "do things the right way." Just by benefit of being in the AL East, I'd say they get a lot more media love than the Sox.

Despite the dislike of Joe Maddon by some in these parts, I don't even think the Rays get media love in their own town.

doublem23
08-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Despite the dislike of Joe Maddon by some in these parts, I don't even think the Rays get media love in their own town.

I mean, obviously nobody in Tampa Bay cares about the Rays, but they have achieved a sort of niche in modern baseball as the anti-Yankees/Red Sox of the world. Given their recent success, I'd be willing to bet if you watched SportsCenter or Baseball Tonight regularly for a week, Tampa Bay would get earlier and longer highlight slots.

Mohoney
08-24-2012, 06:06 PM
Based on what evidence? Just for the hell of it?

We're in a dogfight for the division. I want our best pitcher on the hill every time his turn is up.

I'm fine with Axelrod taking a start and giving Sale a breather. In fact, I wouldn't mind if they skipped a start with Quintana, either. We just need big efforts from Peavy, Liriano, and Floyd down the stretch, but we would need that regardless. Besides, I wouldn't mind seeing what Axelrod can do with 2 more starts in a pennant race this season.

Sale and Quintana would be the ones getting playoff starts anyway, with one of Liriano or Floyd (maybe even both if the ALDS schedule allows for Peavy to take the ball for games 1, 3, and 5) heading to the bullpen.

LoveYourSuit
08-28-2012, 10:51 PM
Bad day and week for Cy candidates:

Verlander, Sale, Weaver all crapped the bed tonight.

Price same yesterday.

Even Strasburg got had a rough one for the NL today.