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ChiSoxGal85
08-21-2012, 01:58 PM
The Cougars have been 3 or 4 different affiliations since I moved here. Maybe that's common among minor league teams.

I might need to move out of the Fox Valley area. :D:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14636291-419/cubs-plan-to-move-peoria-chiefs-to-kane-county.html

LITTLE NELL
08-21-2012, 02:28 PM
If the Sox are smart they should grab that Peoria franchise and start building a fan base downstate where its either Cub or Cardinal country.
I have never really thought about it much but does anyone want to venture a theory why there are so few Sox fans south of Kankakee?

FielderJones
08-21-2012, 02:45 PM
I have never really thought about it much but does anyone want to venture a theory why there are so few Sox fans south of Kankakee?

Three decades of bad marketing?

Hitmen77
08-21-2012, 02:48 PM
The Cougars just became affiliated with the Royals last season. I thought those affiliations typically last 8 years.:scratch: I'd be surprised if they switched again so soon after only 2 seasons w/ the Royals.

People on this site had previously suggested that the Cougars didn't want to affiliate with either the Sox or Cubs because part of their fanbase wouldn't be happy with such an arrangement. Are they changing their mind about that?

I wish the Sox had more of a minor league presence in the midwest. The Cubs have Iowa and Peoria and the Sox have nothing nearby.

DumpJerry
08-21-2012, 02:52 PM
I have never really thought about it much but does anyone want to venture a theory why there are so few Sox fans south of Kankakee?
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Whitesox029
08-21-2012, 03:11 PM
If the Sox are smart they should grab that Peoria franchise and start building a fan base downstate where its either Cub or Cardinal country.
I have never really thought about it much but does anyone want to venture a theory why there are so few Sox fans south of Kankakee?
Many years of WGN, probably.
My time in Champaign was incredibly annoying in this respect. During school, the campus consisted of approximately 40% Sox fans, 45% Cubs fans, and 15% Cardinal fans because of all the students from Chicago, but I walked into a Dick's Sporting Goods off campus once and saw Cubs and Cardinals gear only. I asked why no Sox stuff, and they told me "we only carry gear from local teams". I then pointed out that Sox Park was geographically the closest MLB park to Champaign, and the guy just kind of shrugged.
Incidentally, I also grew to dislike Cardinals fans while there because despite being well outnumbered on campus, they would constantly whine about Sox games being on TV in bars instead of Cardinals games.

SI1020
08-21-2012, 03:20 PM
Many years of WGN, probably.
For years the Sox were on WCFL 1000. It had a strong signal to the east, and not so strong to the south, which WGN did. When I would visit relatives in Pennsylvania during summer vacation I often would pick up Bob Elson just fine on my transistor. When I attended ISU in the early 70's it seemed like there were very few Sox fans downstate. Champaign, Bloomington/Normal and Peoria were kind of a rough line of demarcation. South of that was generally Cardinals territory. A mixed relationship or marriage was a Cubbie fan with a Cardinals fan.

Hitmen77
08-21-2012, 04:32 PM
I looked it up and it looks like the Cougars deal with the Royals is only for 2 seasons.

If they're going to become a Cubs affiliate, all I have to say is :puking:
It won't really a big deal watching the players if they're part of the Cubs system. Most of those guys will never make it to the majors with their parent club anyway. It's just that the Cougars have always been neutral in terms of the Sox/Cubs rivalry. If they make this deal, i'd imagine they'll really emphasize their relationship with the Cubs.

Quite frankly, I don't want to go there to see Cubs Cubs Cubs everywhere. That'll be a turn off to Sox fans. But, I suppose the Cougars have figured there's more to gain by luring the interest of the more numerous Cubs fans even if it means casting aside locals who root for the Sox.

doublem23
08-21-2012, 06:51 PM
I thought the Cougars had always resisted being affiliated with the Cubs or Sox because they would essentially shut put 1/2 their fanbase

ChiSoxGal85
08-21-2012, 06:57 PM
Quite frankly, I don't want to go there to see Cubs Cubs Cubs everywhere. That'll be a turn off to Sox fans. But, I suppose the Cougars have figured there's more to gain by luring the interest of the more numerous Cubs fans even if it means casting aside locals who root for the Sox.

I thought the Cougars had always resisted being affiliated with the Cubs or Sox because they would essentially shut put 1/2 their fanbase

I agree. I was okay with rooting for the Cougars up to now (even as a Royals affiliate), but I admit that becoming a Cubs affiliate would discourage me from going to games. It does depend on how the Cougars handle it - if they go all-out Cubbie blue, I'll find something else to do with my time and money, thank you.

StillMissOzzie
08-22-2012, 01:45 AM
The Cougars have been 3 or 4 different affiliations since I moved here. Maybe that's common among minor league teams.

I might need to move out of the Fox Valley area. :D:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14636291-419/cubs-plan-to-move-peoria-chiefs-to-kane-county.html

They started out with the Orioles, then went from them to the Marlins, A's, and now the Royals. As my kids have grown up going to a few KCC games every year, they are now too old to hang out with dad at the ball game, what with jobs and drivers licenses other halves and all. Looks like I am ending my partial season ticket package with them at the right time.

SMO
:gulp:

Viva Medias B's
08-22-2012, 09:38 AM
We should have a minor league presence in our home region. Currently, five our our seven minor league affiliates are located in the South with three of them in North Carolina. As a team in the Midwest, I cannot understand why we do not have an affiliate in the Midwest League. The Cubs, Brewers, and Cardinals all do. If I were KW, I'd be on the phone with Pete Vonachen today.

Steelrod
08-22-2012, 10:01 AM
We should have a minor league presence in our home region. Currently, five our our seven minor league affiliates are located in the South with three of them in North Carolina. As a team in the Midwest, I cannot understand why we do not have an affiliate in the Midwest League. The Cubs, Brewers, and Cardinals all do. If I were KW, I'd be on the phone with Pete Vonachen today.
We were in Appleton for a long time, then moved to South Bend when it began. Don't know why we left, but with modern travel, proximity isn't much of an issue for a middle "A" affiliate.

Hitmen77
08-22-2012, 11:13 AM
I thought the Cougars had always resisted being affiliated with the Cubs or Sox because they would essentially shut put 1/2 their fanbase

That's what I had heard too. It could be that, since there are more Cubs fans around than Sox fans, they just figured they're willing to appeal to the larger Cubs fan base even if it means alienating Sox fans.

I'm not sure what the Cubs/Sox fan split is for a typical Cougars crowd. Out here in the Fox Valley area, it always seemed to be more like at least 2/3 Cubs fans and 1/3 Sox fans to me.

If this is the direction the Cougars have decided to go, that's a shame IMO because I always thought they were a good place in Chicagoland to see a minor league game with players working their way up to the majors, enjoy the low-cost family oriented atmosphere, and not be in the middle of the Cubs/Sox rivalry.

I agree. I was okay with rooting for the Cougars up to now (even as a Royals affiliate), but I admit that becoming a Cubs affiliate would discourage me from going to games. It does depend on how the Cougars handle it - if they go all-out Cubbie blue, I'll find something else to do with my time and money, thank you.

Yeah, they've done a good job until now downplaying their MLB affiliation. They do display the Royals logo (and before that, the A's logo) on some things, but it really doesn't come off as cheering for the Royals.

They have a pretty good display of the former Cougars players who went on to become major league stars (Adrian Gonzalez, Miguel Cabrera, etc.) Mostly it's players from the Marlins system when they were a Florida affiliate since the Marlins developed a lot of future stars at that time. They used to have a sign on their outfield wall that said "Podsednik Played Here".

But, if they're teaming up with the Cubs, I wonder if they're going to hype the place up as "Wrigley West" or "Wrigley Junior" and go on about how we all love the Cubs and are rooting for future stars of "our Cubbies". What better way to see Theo's future stars! :rolleyes: If that's the case, then I won't be inclined to come back.

Huisj
08-22-2012, 11:29 AM
We were in Appleton for a long time, then moved to South Bend when it began. Don't know why we left, but with modern travel, proximity isn't much of an issue for a middle "A" affiliate.

Don't forget the Burlington Bees for two years. Check out the picture of a young Mark Buehrle 2/3 of the way down this page: http://www.milb.com/team2/page.jsp?ymd=20050526&content_id=8111&vkey=team2_t420&fext=.jsp&sid=t420

thomas35forever
08-22-2012, 12:42 PM
It really does depend on how they market it. To make this work, the Cougars will have to hype up the Cubs the way the Wolves hype the Canucks, which is not at all. Otherwise, you indeed turn off half your current fan base, which I have a hard time believing they would.

WhiteSox5187
08-22-2012, 12:50 PM
We were in Appleton for a long time, then moved to South Bend when it began. Don't know why we left, but with modern travel, proximity isn't much of an issue for a middle "A" affiliate.

Daver has mentioned that the White Sox want to keep all their minor league teams in the same vicinity in order to keep travel expenses down for scouts. I also remember reading someone on here quoting a scout who said the White Sox should move their minor league operations to the Midwest if only to expose their minor league players to the playing conditions they might be facing in Chicago in early April.

JB98
08-22-2012, 01:37 PM
The crazy thing is the Cougars don't really need the Cubs marketing machine to draw. They do just fine as they are.

I haven't been to a game in a few years, even though I live about 15 minutes from the stadium. I've never been able to get real interested in the Cougars, and there's no chance I'd ever have a change of heart if they align themselves with the Cubs.

The way the Cubbie fan culture is out here in the 'burbs, I wouldn't be surprised if they are singing "Go Cubs Go" after Cougar victories next season. Sox fans will be staying away in droves, but there will probably be plenty of Cubs fans snapping up those cheap Cougars tickets.

doogiec
08-22-2012, 02:20 PM
Just a few random observations from someone who goes to a handful of Cougars games each year, and has done so since they moved to Kane County:

I had been surprised at what I perceived to be lower attendance this year, particularly at a Friday night game last week with perfect weather. I looked up their annual attendance numbers, and they have slid from 7000+ per game average a few years ago, to 5000+ per game this year. I would think they would do better in a poor economy (similar to McDonalds), not worse. In addition, they added some seating capacity a few years back.

Went to a game against Peoria two years ago, and it was the only one I have ever been at that had issues with drunken fans. Not a lot, but enough of the drunken frat boy types cheering for the Chiefs to be obnoxious, including a couple that spent a half inning screaming a two older ladies on the upper deck to “show us your tits”. Never seen that before at that ballpark. If they are trying to get fans that normally only go to Wrigley to head out to Kane County a few times, they are going to have their hands full.

While I’m sure the Cougars will get a short term boost from this, I don’t see how this works out long term from a marketing standpoint. If they turn the place into Wrigley Field West, they risk turning off a significant portion of their current fan base that has supported them well. If they ignore the Cubs connection on the other hand, what is the point of doing this in the first place? IMO, staying neutral has been a stroke of genius on their part. It makes all Chicago area baseball fans feel welcome.

Interesting that these supposed talks are in violation of MLB rules, with fines of $500,000 for the Cubs and $100,000 for the Cougars. Wonder who leaked this?

Steelrod
08-23-2012, 03:14 AM
Certainly not Theo. He is never wrong!

Lamp81
08-24-2012, 12:52 AM
I think this is a bad move for both the Cougars and Cubs.

As it has been said, a lot of Sox fans would stop attending, if they were Cubs affiliated. There is no way I could ever pull for anyone to succeed while getting paid by the Cubs.

The 'KC' logo works for both Kansas City and Kane County

Part of the whole Wrigley Field charm is people on vacation from places like Des Moines and Peoria, where they can really play up the Cubs synergies. The Cubs also used to play A ball in Rockford, but they are now an Independent team. The Peoria fans might choose to stay home, if they were not familiar with the players.

I see what the Sox are doing by having most of their teams in the Carolinas, and another a short drive to Alabama. The one team that is way off is the team in Montana. You would think a team like that could be moved back to the Midwest to a Peoria, Burlington, South Bend, Rockford, or Springfield. At the very least, when you send a player off on a rehab assignment, they'd only be 3-4 hours away instead of in Charlotte.

doublem23
08-24-2012, 02:24 AM
I see what the Sox are doing by having most of their teams in the Carolinas, and another a short drive to Alabama. The one team that is way off is the team in Montana. You would think a team like that could be moved back to the Midwest to a Peoria, Burlington, South Bend, Rockford, or Springfield. At the very least, when you send a player off on a rehab assignment, they'd only be 3-4 hours away instead of in Charlotte.

The team in Montana is just a short-season Rookie level league, all of the teams are in the Rocky Mountain area, so it's unlikely they'd really want 1 team moved 1,000+ miles away, plus it would probably serve no real purpose to have a guy do a rehab stint on a team full of kids just out of high school.

thomas35forever
09-19-2012, 05:28 PM
It's official. Unbelievable. They just better cool it with the affiliation hype or the Sox fans will be turned off.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20120919/sports/709199770/

doublem23
09-19-2012, 05:39 PM
Peoria, meanwhile, will reaffiliate with the Cardinals, which leaves the Quad Cities River Bandits available.

ChiSoxGal85
09-19-2012, 05:51 PM
Sigh. I, for one, am sorely disappointed.

Hitmen77
09-19-2012, 06:07 PM
It's official. Unbelievable. They just better cool it with the affiliation hype or the Sox fans will be turned off.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20120919/sports/709199770/

:puking:

I also hope they don't hype their affiliation, but I doubt it. Why signed an affiliation deal with the popular Cubs and not totally hype it?

I agree that this will turn off us Sox fans. My guess is that the Cougars ownership has decided that the gain from pandering to Cubs fans is worth the risk them essentially saying "take a hike" to Sox fans.

I can't wait to go there and hear them go on about us rooting for future Cubbies!:rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
09-19-2012, 06:58 PM
Others have said this, but the Sox need to find a way to put an affiliate in Joliet. Joliet had a great stadium in a downtown location, close to Metra, 80, 55 and 355, and close to the fastest growing region of the Chicago metropolitan area, in which Sox fans may outnumber Cubs fans.

doublem23
09-19-2012, 07:28 PM
Others have said this, but the Sox need to find a way to put an affiliate in Joliet. Joliet had a great stadium in a downtown location, close to Metra, 80, 55 and 355, and close to the fastest growing region of the Chicago metropolitan area, in which Sox fans may outnumber Cubs fans.

Joliet's not THAT close to the Loop

Parrothead
09-19-2012, 07:33 PM
Peoria, meanwhile, will reaffiliate with the Cardinals, which leaves the Quad Cities River Bandits available.

And Beliot, which lost the twins to Cedar Rapids.

Others have said this, but the Sox need to find a way to put an affiliate in Joliet. Joliet had a great stadium in a downtown location, close to Metra, 80, 55 and 355, and close to the fastest growing region of the Chicago metropolitan area, in which Sox fans may outnumber Cubs fans.

There is no way that will happen. 1st the Cougars, White Sox, Cubs would have to ok the deal. I heard that South Bend and Beloit would too but I can't confirm it. 2nd what makes you think that Joliet would draw more then currently do? Just because they are affiliated? It may help initially help but that would die down after a year. 3rd the current owners of the Slammers would have to be bought out or it would have to wait til lease is up.

Frater Perdurabo
09-19-2012, 11:33 PM
Joliet's not THAT close to the Loop

I realize part of your shtick is to look down at anything smaller than 2.5 million people as something less than a "city," but for municipalities of a comparable size, that lie within a metro area so completely dominated by the central city, Joliet actually has a viable downtown.

doublem23
09-19-2012, 11:38 PM
I realize part of your shtick is to look down at anything smaller than 2.5 million people as something less than a "city," but for municipalities of a comparable size, that lie within a metro area so completely dominated by the central city, Joliet actually has a viable downtown.

:scratch:

Joliet's a fine location for minor league baseball, I've been to Silver Cross Field (or whatever it's called now) several times, it's a nice set up. Just pointing out the the fastest growing region in the Chicagoland area is the Loop. 80% population growth from 2000-2010, something like 150% growth from 1990-2010. Nothing in the 6-county area comes remotely close.

Frater Perdurabo
09-19-2012, 11:52 PM
:scratch:

Joliet's a fine location for minor league baseball, I've been to Silver Cross Field (or whatever it's called now) several times, it's a nice set up. Just pointing out the the fastest growing region in the Chicagoland area is the Loop. 80% population growth from 2000-2010, something like 150% growth from 1990-2010. Nothing in the 6-county area comes remotely close.

OK, but the Loop isn't a standalone city, it's a hot "neighborhood." Joliet is the fastest-growing city in Illinois.

Besides, the Loop already has a minor league team playing in an historic stadium a few miles North.

:)

Parrothead
09-20-2012, 12:08 AM
This is from an article from the daily herald...

there are two levels of territorial play here, (MLB and MiLb) not just one -- but it doesn't matter, because there's very little chance of affiliated ball landing in Joliet any time soon. For starters, no Low Class A Midwest League teams looking to move; can't have an affiliated team if none is available.

But, more importantly, the Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox or the Kane County Cougars (Low Class A: Midwest League) signing off on a Joliet affiliated team (and yes, they all have territorial claims here): the three have been pretty resolute in dissuading other cities from seeking an affiliated team, and we don't see that changing any time soon.

DSpivack
09-20-2012, 12:16 AM
OK, but the Loop isn't a standalone city, it's a hot "neighborhood." Joliet is the fastest-growing city in Illinois.

Besides, the Loop already has a minor league team playing in an historic stadium a few miles North.

:)

Yes, but the 1st place team in a beautiful stadium is just as close (actually closer; Sox are 3500 s. of course and Cubs 3400 n., but Sox are further east and thus closer) to the Loop. :cool:

Is Joliet still growing as quickly today, or has it suffered like many other exurbs in the foreclosure crisis?

Lamp81
09-20-2012, 02:25 PM
And Beliot, which lost the twins to Cedar Rapids.



There is no way that will happen. 1st the Cougars, White Sox, Cubs would have to ok the deal. I heard that South Bend and Beloit would too but I can't confirm it. 2nd what makes you think that Joliet would draw more then currently do? Just because they are affiliated? It may help initially help but that would die down after a year. 3rd the current owners of the Slammers would have to be bought out or it would have to wait til lease is up.

I like the idea of a White Sox A MWL team in Joliet. My biggest issue would be that I am in McHenry County, so I'd probably only see them when the play Kane County.

The White Sox were kind enough to allow a team in Kane County, a Joliet team wouldn't affect much in the way of Cubs attendance, so they should OK the deal The Joliet Slammers could simply move leagues, with the same ownership, then they would get a stocked roster, instead of having to assemble their own team.

Parrothead
09-21-2012, 01:35 PM
I like the idea of a White Sox A MWL team in Joliet. My biggest issue would be that I am in McHenry County, so I'd probably only see them when the play Kane County.

The White Sox were kind enough to allow a team in Kane County, a Joliet team wouldn't affect much in the way of Cubs attendance, so they should OK the deal The Joliet Slammers could simply move leagues, with the same ownership, then they would get a stocked roster, instead of having to assemble their own team.

I like the idea too but not going to happen. The Sox want all their teams close to each other. I was saddened when they moved out of South Bend years ago.