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View Full Version : Sox Acquire Francisco Liriano


hoosiersoxfan
07-28-2012, 10:04 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
#WhiteSox announce acquisition of LHP Francisco Liriano from #Twins for #IF Eduardo Escobar and LHP Pedro Hernandez.

beasly213
07-28-2012, 10:08 PM
:o:

GoGoCrede
07-28-2012, 10:09 PM
What??????

nofluke69
07-28-2012, 10:09 PM
But.... He sucks now!

JB98
07-28-2012, 10:10 PM
He has a 5.69 ERA against Detroit in 21 career games. He's terrible against other teams too.

thomas35forever
07-28-2012, 10:10 PM
Wow. This will either work out decently or blow up in KW's face. Talk about a HUGE gamble.

XplodingScorbord
07-28-2012, 10:10 PM
Let me be among the first to say: Coop'll fix him.

CoopaLoop
07-28-2012, 10:10 PM
Escobar is productive, Liriano is not.

SephClone89
07-28-2012, 10:11 PM
Huh.

I guess I'll reserve judgement. I guess Beckham is the backup shortstop now?

KnightSox
07-28-2012, 10:11 PM
Work some more magic Coop!

SoxFan49
07-28-2012, 10:11 PM
Escobar? Honestly this is a good deal, even though Escobar can play multiple positions, we need to find someone to be able to come in and pinch hit at anytime and do something more at the bat in general.

beasly213
07-28-2012, 10:12 PM
I mean... giving up a utility guy is not a big deal. But Liriano is bad... Maybe the news that Danks might need surgery caused Kenny do to something.

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2012, 10:13 PM
Wow. Talk about under the radar. Liriano was among the rumored targets but I never thought the Twins would trade him to us. That makes me wonder if they are giving up on him. Nevertheless, Coop has an excellent track record with reclamation projects. Could turn out to be another Edward Jackson for us.

Who becomes our utility IF?

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 10:13 PM
Im shocked. I loved Escobar off the bench. And I don't really like Lirano at all. He is another very inconsistent pitcher

Brian26
07-28-2012, 10:14 PM
Escobar? Honestly this is a good deal, even though Escobar can play multiple positions, we need to find someone to be able to come in and pinch hit at anytime and do something more at the bat in general.

Funny, I was just going to come on here and suggest Escobar take over for Beckham as our everyday second sacker. I like him....he's a scappy little player and can make contact.

infohawk
07-28-2012, 10:14 PM
As long as Liriano is healthy he can possibly help the Sox. I'll put my trust in Cooper to address any control issues. Liriano's stuff is electric. Nintendo stuff!

Brian26
07-28-2012, 10:15 PM
Who becomes our utility IF?

Hudson.

jcw218
07-28-2012, 10:15 PM
Who becomes our utility IF?

My guess is Hudson.

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2012, 10:16 PM
Hudson.

Can he play shortstop?

central44
07-28-2012, 10:16 PM
Not the move I was hoping for, but I assume they don't make this deal unless Coop can pinpoint something he knows he can fix.

I just had a chilling vision of Escobar turning into Punto 2.0 and tormenting the Sox for years.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 10:16 PM
Hmm is last 10 starts (not including us) have actually been pretty good. Highest he let up was 4 runs twice (KC and CHC)

cheezheadsoxfan
07-28-2012, 10:16 PM
With a Danks return looking less and less likely this might be a decent move. Do your thing Coop!

SephClone89
07-28-2012, 10:16 PM
Hudson.

Ew. Hasn't played an inning of SS in the bigs. Not exactly your utility type. How's that other Ozzie doing?

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 10:17 PM
With a Danks return looking less and less likely this might be a decent move. Do your thing Coop!

Who is out of the rotation when the go with 5, Humber or Floyd?
I assume Humber

35th&Shields
07-28-2012, 10:18 PM
Starting pitchers are far more valuable than utility infielders.

Liriano has serious skills that he's shown when he threw a no-hitter. At the WORST he will eat up some innings.

I think this trade borders on a no brainer.

SephClone89
07-28-2012, 10:19 PM
Who is out of the rotation when the go with 5, Humber or Floyd?
I assume Humber

Yeah, Humber becomes the long man, probably makes spot starts down the stretch--Sale and Peavy could certainly use a little rest.

CoopaLoop
07-28-2012, 10:19 PM
Wow. This will either work out decently or blow up in KW's face. Talk about a HUGE gamble.

I played in a death metal band. People either loved us or hated us...or thought we were okay.

Brian26
07-28-2012, 10:19 PM
Ew. Hasn't played an inning of SS in the bigs. Not exactly your utility type. How's that other Ozzie doing?

He gawn, I believe. Sox dropped him recently.

RCWHITESOX
07-28-2012, 10:20 PM
Escobar is productive, Liriano is not.

Please.This trade is all upside. Escobar is a utility player and Hernandez is not a top prospect. Good move by Williams.I see the Sox picking up another veteran bench player.

DrCrawdad
07-28-2012, 10:20 PM
Funny, I was just going to come on here and suggest Escobar take over for Beckham as our everyday second sacker. I like him....he's a scappy little player and can make contact.

Not the move I was hoping for, but I assume they don't make this deal unless Coop can pinpoint something he knows he can fix.

I just had a chilling vision of Escobar turning into Punto 2.0 and tormenting the Sox for years.

I hope Liriano does well for the Sox. I just really hate sending any players to the Twins that could potentially be around for awhile.

Mr. Skin
07-28-2012, 10:20 PM
Im shocked. I loved Escobar off the bench. And I don't really like Lirano at all. He is another very inconsistent pitcher
You're worried about losing Escobar (a utility infielder) when the Sox get Liriano as our SIXTH starter...come on...plus he's arbitration eligible next year. Might be here for a while...

DumpJerry
07-28-2012, 10:21 PM
Morel had a rehab start today.

Crooked Number
07-28-2012, 10:21 PM
Needed to make a SP move as Danks is most likely not going to be coming back this season. I am also quite shocked at this move, as the Twins just let go of a plus arm for a utility IF.

Like others have mentioned, he is a starting pitcher that can go right now, and take the mound every 5. It's a move that needed to be done. Let's see how it plays out. Good call on Punto 2.0, Escobar could be the next Sox killer heh. At least we got a great game out of Escobar tonight!

cheezheadsoxfan
07-28-2012, 10:22 PM
Not the move I was hoping for, but I assume they don't make this deal unless Coop can pinpoint something he knows he can fix.

I just had a chilling vision of Escobar turning into Punto 2.0 and tormenting the Sox for years.

Shudder!

DumpJerry
07-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Who leaves the rotation? Will Floyd get dealt?

cheezheadsoxfan
07-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Who is out of the rotation when the go with 5, Humber or Floyd?
I assume Humber
Probably or maybe Kenny's not done.

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2012, 10:23 PM
The Twins' calling card has been fielding and hitting fundamentals, luck, and for a few years some excellent hitting. It's not like they have had dominant pitching outside of guys who had excellent stuff or pinpoint control. This suggests to me that their pitching coach just is not as effective as Cooper has been. This leads me to believe that if anyone can fix Liriano, Coop can.

WhiteSox5187
07-28-2012, 10:23 PM
I don't think we gave up anything that will really haunt us but Liriano is not exactly the most consistent starter in the world. Is he an improvement over anyone currently in our rotation? I certainly don't think so.

guillensdisciple
07-28-2012, 10:24 PM
Love this trade.

Liriano has immense talent that for one reason or another has not developed.

A change of scenery, something to pitch for, and a great pitching coach might be what he needs. Guy has a great change up, slider, and heater.

This can work, especially considering that his betterment as a pitcher could make this rotation devastating to opposing hitters.

Ws'll see though, he has been bad for a reason.

PushinWeight
07-28-2012, 10:24 PM
Well, Liriano obviously has proven that he has some talent in the past. Looks like the Sox have another Gavin Floyd or Jose Contreras in their rotation now. All or nothing depending on how their stuff is on a given night.

soltrain21
07-28-2012, 10:24 PM
KW is 2 for 2 so far in bringing in guys I hate(d). Here is for going 3 for 3.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 10:24 PM
Probably or maybe Kenny's not done.

I wouldn't mind trading Floyd for prospects but I doubt it happens

Brian26
07-28-2012, 10:25 PM
Escobar could be the next Sox killer heh. At least we got a great game out of Escobar tonight!

Reminds me a bit of eight years ago when Olivo had a huge game to beat the Cubs, then after the game was sent immediately to Seattle for Freddy.

SaltyPretzel
07-28-2012, 10:25 PM
Just heard on channel 7 news that Danks acknowledged his shoulder isn't getting better and may need surgery. :(:

Brian26
07-28-2012, 10:25 PM
In the last week, Liriano: 2.2 IP, 7 ER, 23.63 ERA.

Get to work, Coop.

doublem23
07-28-2012, 10:26 PM
Who is out of the rotation when the go with 5, Humber or Floyd?
I assume Humber

Liriano

soxnut1018
07-28-2012, 10:27 PM
Can't hurt, could help.

DumpJerry
07-28-2012, 10:27 PM
In the last week, Liriano: 2.2 IP, 7 ER, 23.63 ERA.

Get to work, Coop.
But that was against the vaunted White Sox.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 10:27 PM
In the last week, Liriano: 2.2 IP, 7 ER, 23.63 ERA.

Get to work, Coop.

That was against us though

WhiteSox5187
07-28-2012, 10:28 PM
Well, Liriano obviously has proven that he has some talent in the past. Looks like the Sox have another Gavin Floyd or Jose Contreras in their rotation now. All or nothing depending on how their stuff is on a given night.

Except that neither Floyd nor Contreras had major reconstructive elbow surgery that completely altered their mechanics. He hasn't been the same guy since that surgery...though in looking up his stats he had a pretty good 2010. I don't know. Seems like a lateral at best but maybe Cooper can work his magic.

soltrain21
07-28-2012, 10:28 PM
Can't hurt, could help.

Well, he could very much hurt.

Tragg
07-28-2012, 10:29 PM
As long as the prospect is a no-upside guy, this is fine.

I liked Escobar, but he's a utility infielder. Replaceable.
I am glad we waited until after the game to make the trade though.

Hopefully Coop saw something in Liriano...I mean, he's got to improve to be of any benefit at all.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 10:29 PM
When is his first start?? I guess against the Twins? or against the Angels

WhiteSox5187
07-28-2012, 10:30 PM
Can't hurt, could help.

The only way it could help is that we have no one who can play shortstop adequately as a backup. Maybe Beckham can but it has been a long time since he has and I have no idea how he looked in the minors at short.

RowanDye
07-28-2012, 10:30 PM
Just heard on channel 7 news that Danks acknowledged his shoulder isn't getting better and may need surgery. :(:

Yea, Danks is out of the picture. This move gives much need pitching flexibility.

Plus there's a chance that Liriano really tears it up!

I'm hoping there's a smaller move for a veteran bench guy.

WhiteSox5187
07-28-2012, 10:32 PM
Liriano

Do you think the White Sox might go back to a six man staff for a bit to try and rest up Sale and Peavy?

tick53
07-28-2012, 10:34 PM
Work some more magic Coop!

Between Coop and The Hermanator, they'll get him whipped onto shape and can live up to his true potential, without giving up the farm. Good move KW, no make that GREAT move.

slavko
07-28-2012, 10:34 PM
Except that neither Floyd nor Contreras had major reconstructive elbow surgery that completely altered their mechanics. He hasn't been the same guy since that surgery...though in looking up his stats he had a pretty good 2010. I don't know. Seems like a lateral at best but maybe Cooper can work his magic.

He was great before the elbow, wasn't he? Right now, bottom of the rotation. Hope he surprises me.

doublem23
07-28-2012, 10:34 PM
Do you think the White Sox might go back to a six man staff for a bit to try and rest up Sale and Peavy?

Possibly. Might also just give Sale the occasional extra day of rest in lieu of going full 6-man.

In Coop We Trust

SephClone89
07-28-2012, 10:34 PM
The more I think about it, the more I like this trade.

Jollyroger2
07-28-2012, 10:36 PM
I know the Twins are out of it, but anytime a trade in the division is made like this I'm extremely wary. Liriano has been awful lately and if the Twins were willing to send him to a division rival, they must feel pretty sure that he won't come back to burn them.

We'll see what happens.

JB98
07-28-2012, 10:36 PM
As long as the prospect is a no-upside guy, this is fine.

I liked Escobar, but he's a utility infielder. Replaceable.
I am glad we waited until after the game to make the trade though.

Hopefully Coop saw something in Liriano...I mean, he's got to improve to be of any benefit at all.

Hernandez was the guy who got shelled in the spot start at Boston.

I'm not worried about what the Sox gave up. I'm just not sold Liriano adds much. We'll see.

pmck003
07-28-2012, 10:36 PM
I'm hopeful but also having a hard time seeing why the Twins would do this if they thought Liriano had any chance of being his old self

cheezheadsoxfan
07-28-2012, 10:38 PM
I wouldn't mind trading Floyd for prospects but I doubt it happens
Sixth starter might be there thinking, to give Sale and Peavy a breather. Sounds pretty good to me. A typical Coop reclamation project.

all*star quentin
07-28-2012, 10:38 PM
Ken Rosenthal on twitter: #WhiteSox's plan is for Liriano to start. Team trying to protect its starters. Will slide him in to give others an extra day of rest or two.

PalehosePlanet
07-28-2012, 10:39 PM
Sale and Quintana will be in uncharted territory -- if they're not already -- in IP soon. We needed another starter, period.

As for Humber, I think he would be solid not only as a long man but could also be used in the 7th or 8th inning ala DJ Carasco a few years ago.

Danielgosox38
07-28-2012, 10:39 PM
Holy ****. That's all I got. :o:

fcl
07-28-2012, 10:39 PM
Is Beckham the backup SS with Hudson at 2B? I think so.

balke
07-28-2012, 10:42 PM
Is Beckham the backup SS with Hudson at 2B? I think so.


Maybe Sanchez? http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120621&content_id=33692402&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

Tragg
07-28-2012, 10:44 PM
Ken Rosenthal on twitter: #WhiteSox's plan is for Liriano to start. Team trying to protect its starters. Will slide him in to give others an extra day of rest or two.
I think that's wise.
The idea here is to win a WS. The ONLY chance we have at that is for Peavy and Sale to be in peak form. Can't over-pitch them.

Escobar is a nice player; and he's young. This isn't nothing like Lilibridge. But still worth the risk, it seems to me.

sox1970
07-28-2012, 10:44 PM
Maybe Sanchez? http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120621&content_id=33692402&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

He'll be a good big leaguer someday, but it isn't his time. 2014.

SephClone89
07-28-2012, 10:44 PM
Maybe Sanchez? http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120621&content_id=33692402&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

No way he'll get that big of a promotion.

They'll either work with what they have or add someone. the Giants just DFA'd Emmanuel Burriss.,,

johnnyg83
07-28-2012, 10:44 PM
They have to send a pitcher down and call someone up. Oui?

Septimo down?

Johnson up? Drew Garcia? Ray Olmedo?

CoopaLoop
07-28-2012, 10:46 PM
Isn't Lillibridge looking for a job?

balke
07-28-2012, 10:47 PM
My take: If Escobar is for real - he's being wasted here. Alexei isn't going anywhere, and Beckham's defense is too solid to take him out of the infield right now.

So, this trade-off is a plus for the Sox. They were put in a really bad spot with Danks talking surgery today. Liriano gives them some hope going to the playoffs. The only other kind of pitchers I could've seen them getting were Vargas, Millwood, or guys who don't have that giant upside.

We'll see what happens, not a move that has made the Sox scary, but a move that has made the Sox more stable. If another starter gets hurt, there's a backup.

JB98
07-28-2012, 10:47 PM
Isn't Lillibridge looking for a job?

No, he's with Cleveland.

sox1970
07-28-2012, 10:47 PM
Isn't Lillibridge looking for a job?

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=452121

DumpJerry
07-28-2012, 10:48 PM
So now we got one of the guys the Twins got when they traded AJ to the Giants.

thomas35forever
07-28-2012, 10:48 PM
We'll definitely need to rest our starters on certain days to keep them fresh. The more I think about it, the more I realize we needed to add to our rotation somehow. Even if Liriano turns out bad, the Sox would be able to plan the rotation out so they can decide which games they deem either very winnable or expendable. I say expendable because as nice as it would be for the Sox to win out, that's not going to happen. If you're going to lose, at least decide when. On the flip side, if the other team is throwing a crappy starter out there on a given night, you can decide if you can afford to get into a slugfest and still win. Lots of things to consider here.

Brian26
07-28-2012, 10:49 PM
Isn't Lillibridge looking for a job?

Cleveland

CoopaLoop
07-28-2012, 10:49 PM
No, he's with Cleveland.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=452121

Ah, I thought I saw he was released. Guess he was traded.

PalehosePlanet
07-28-2012, 10:50 PM
They have to send a pitcher down and call someone up. Oui?

Septimo down?

Johnson up? Drew Garcia? Ray Olmedo?

This is who I'm thinking: a defense first veteran/journeyman type player. Unless, of course, we can pick up a similar but better type player on the cheap from someone else.

Tragg
07-28-2012, 10:50 PM
My take: If Escobar is for real - he's being wasted here. .

If Escobar is for real - i.e. a major league starting shortstop, then this is a terrible trade. That's who you trade for Grienke (and who the Rangers wouldn't - their's was a 2nd baseman and they have Ian Kinsler). Blocked or not, you can get something good for him - you don't give him away.

But from what I read, he isn't.

kittle42
07-28-2012, 10:51 PM
I hated it when I first heard it, but it's a no-brainer. They gave up nothing. They've got a serviceable guy who will allow Sale to get more rest. It's all good.

DickAllen72
07-28-2012, 10:51 PM
Isn't Lillibridge looking for a job?
No. He's with the Cleveland Indians.

Shorty1983
07-28-2012, 10:51 PM
Love this pick up! IT'S ALL GOOD!

kittle42
07-28-2012, 10:52 PM
If Escobar is for real - i.e. a major league starting shortstop, then this is a terrible trade. That's who you trade for Grienke (and who the Rangers wouldn't). Blocked or not, you can get something good for him.

But from what I read, he isn't.

He isn't. Classic overrating our own bench players. Chicago fans love doing that.

kittle42
07-28-2012, 10:53 PM
This is who I'm thinking: a defense first veteran/journeyman type player. Unless, of course, we can pick up a similar but better type player on the cheap from someone else.

A reserve IF will be DFAd by several teams in the next 4 days. We'll be fine.

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2012, 10:53 PM
Maybe Sanchez? http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120621&content_id=33692402&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

Interesting. Liriano replaces Escobar on the roster. Send Septimo to Charlotte and bring up Sanchez as the utility IF. Then dump Hudson and bring up Dan Johnson as the bench bat.

doublem23
07-28-2012, 10:53 PM
He isn't. Classic overrating our own bench players. Chicago fans love doing that.

ALL fans do that

doublem23
07-28-2012, 10:54 PM
Interesting. Liriano replaces Escobar on the roster. Send Septimo to Charlotte and bring up Sanchez as the utility IF. Then dump Hudson and bring up Dan Johnson as the bench bat.

Sanchez has too much potential to just sit on the bench

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 10:57 PM
Liriano got pounded in April. Since then his era is @4.2. As this trade soaks in, I'm liking it more and more.

SoxSpeed22
07-28-2012, 11:00 PM
There was a need to upgrade the rotation, I'm surprised they went with another lefty. Liriano was a fantastic pitcher as a rookie, but after TJ surgery, he wasn't really the same. In 3 of the last 4 seasons, he's had an ERA over 5, so I'm assuming his value was ****.

Danielgosox38
07-28-2012, 11:01 PM
He is a free agent though at the end of the year right? Good deal, but that makes it not quite as good IMO.

balke
07-28-2012, 11:01 PM
Liriano got pounded in April. Since then his era is @4.2. As this trade soaks in, I'm liking it more and more.


Anytime the Sox get a pitcher like this there's that part of your brain that thinks about Don Cooper "seeing something". Maybe it's as simple as him needing to throw strikes. His K/BB is blah. Hope this is another success story for Coop. So far he just kinda looks like a pitcher who has been cut down by injury.

fram40
07-28-2012, 11:01 PM
Liriano got pounded in April. Since then his era is @4.2. As this trade soaks in, I'm liking it more and more.

Potentially a very good trade. I think every one felt the Sox needed a starter, just in case. And Kenny got one for seemingly nothing

Interesting how the worst farm system in the majors is paying dividends this year. Just amazing. The relief pitchers on the roster, Myers, and now Liraino.

And jumping ahead a few months, this potentially gives the Sox four good lefty starters. Think KW will be busy at the winter meetings?

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:02 PM
Liriano got pounded in April. Since then his era is @4.2. As this trade soaks in, I'm liking it more and more.

Since May 14 his era in 3.87. Hmmmm, very interesting!

kittle42
07-28-2012, 11:02 PM
He is a free agent though at the end of the year right? Good deal, but that makes it not quite as good IMO.

There's a reason he was acquired for next to nothing.

Hitmen77
07-28-2012, 11:02 PM
Possibly. Might also just give Sale the occasional extra day of rest in lieu of going full 6-man.


That's what I'm thinking. Sale might be hitting a wall soon - I think he could need the occasional rest day.

By the way, what happened to Axelrod? His he still on the team, or did he get sent back to the minors when Humber/Floyd returned from the DL?

This isn't exactly the Sox acquiring a Grienke or a Dempster. I'm not expecting Liriano to be all that good. But he should at least be serviceable if any of our starters needs rest or has another injury.

I hated it when I first heard it, but it's a no-brainer. They gave up nothing. They've got a serviceable guy who will allow Sale to get more rest. It's all good.

:hawk
Now you're talking!

guillensdisciple
07-28-2012, 11:03 PM
Uhhh, isn't this a rebuilding year?

Soxman219
07-28-2012, 11:03 PM
Uhhhhh.....What?

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:04 PM
Since May 14 his era in 3.87. Hmmmm, very interesting!
And MN is a bad defensive team.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 11:06 PM
Since May 14 his era in 3.87. Hmmmm, very interesting!

Is this including his last start against us

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:07 PM
Is this including his last start against us

Yes, only his 2nd non-quality start in his last 8.

guillensdisciple
07-28-2012, 11:08 PM
Yes, only his 2nd non-quality start in his last 8.

There is a reason why Kenny got him for a playoff contender.

If this trade pans out, Kenny might deserve gm of the year honors.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 11:09 PM
Yes, only his 2nd non-quality start in his last 8.

Do you know what his ERA is excluding the start against his new team

SoxSpeed22
07-28-2012, 11:09 PM
He is a free agent though at the end of the year right? Good deal, but that makes it not quite as good IMO.

There's a reason he was acquired for next to nothing.With the new CBA rules, teams can't trade for a guy and get a comp pick out of it if he signs with someone else. I think what we will see is teams trading a lot less than they used to for guys on the last year of their contract.

balke
07-28-2012, 11:09 PM
And MN is a bad defensive team.

He's 27th in DIPS for AL pitchers. (Reaching for a bright spot here).

cards press box
07-28-2012, 11:11 PM
Wow. This will either work out decently or blow up in KW's face. Talk about a HUGE gamble.

I don't think so. I like Eduardo Escobar but he doesn't get on base enough to project as a regular. Most teams would deal a back-up infielder to get much needed depth in the starting rotation.

Starting pitchers are far more valuable than utility infielders.

Liriano has serious skills that he's shown when he threw a no-hitter. At the WORST he will eat up some innings.

I think this trade borders on a no brainer.

I agree.

Maybe the news that Danks might need surgery caused Kenny do to something.

I think so. No one has flat out said it but doesn't it seem likely that the Sox will shut down Danks for the season and concentrate on getting him ready for the 2013 season?

Wow. Talk about under the radar. Liriano was among the rumored targets but I never thought the Twins would trade him to us. That makes me wonder if they are giving up on him. Nevertheless, Coop has an excellent track record with reclamation projects. Could turn out to be another Edward Jackson for us.

Who becomes our utility IF?

A reserve IF will be DFAd by several teams in the next 4 days. We'll be fine.

Like many of KW's moves, this sure was under the radar! I don't know who takes over for Escobar on the Sox bench. I agree that a reserve infielder may well become available through a minor deal or when through the waiver wire.

Tragg
07-28-2012, 11:11 PM
With the new CBA rules, teams can't trade for a guy and get a comp pick out of it if he signs with someone else. I think what we will see is teams getting a lot less than they used to for guys on the last year of their contract.
That's what we should see...but from what I can tell so far, we haven't.

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2012, 11:11 PM
Liriano got pounded in April. Since then his era is @4.2. As this trade soaks in, I'm liking it more and more.

Under 4 ERA (3.68 at last check) in his most recent 66 innings. (100 IP total in 2012)

Coop has a long track record of success with guys with good stuff who underachieved elsewhere and/or with different pitching coaches. More successes than failures. Successes include Loaiza, Contreras, Garland, Jenks, Thornton, Jackson and Humber.

Failures include MacDougal and Aardsma.

The jury is still out on Floyd. Vazquez proved an interesting case, as he still ate innings and whose problem was mental, not physical.

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:13 PM
There is a reason why Kenny got him for a playoff contender.

If this trade pans out, Kenny might deserve gm of the year honors.


Agreed. Could be an incredible steal when you consider how little they gave up (for the 3rd time in a few weeks). Nothing against Escobar but getting a veteran starter for this price isn't even a gamble.

Noneck
07-28-2012, 11:14 PM
Makes sense, Sale pitched yesterday like a guy with a dead arm. Now they have another lefty so Sale can get some rest.

JB98
07-28-2012, 11:19 PM
I noticed Liriano has 109 Ks and 55 BBs in 100 innings this season.

That tells us the swing-and-miss stuff is still present. The control and command, maybe not so much.

balke
07-28-2012, 11:20 PM
Just saw some pitching highlights for Liriano this year - man his pitches move. Even in the highlights he was throwing out of the zone getting guys to chase. I'm wondering if he was putting pressure on himself to get a lot of K's and keep the ball out of the zone. Now he's got a good defense behind him - could be a stud.

Starting to love this trade.

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:23 PM
When you consider the steep price the Angels paid for Greinke, Liriano came incredibly cheap. Kenny is having himself quite a July.

guillensdisciple
07-28-2012, 11:26 PM
If liriano patches anywhere near his talent with the sox, the sox playoffs rotation will be peavy sale Quintana and liriano with floyd and Humber backing up.


Not bad at all if you ask me.

The real question will be, again only if liriano is successful, what we do with this wealth of pitching for next year?

Danks, Humber, Floyd, peavy, sale, Quintana, liriano.

Looks like Kenny might be adding some hitting or prospects next year.

At the worst, we'll have a rotation of sale, Quintana, Floyd, danks, and liriano.

One righty in that rotation but that sounds like a good rotation.

Especially since liriano is your five and your top threw are pretty good.

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:26 PM
Just saw some pitching highlights for Liriano this year - man his pitches move. Even in the highlights he was throwing out of the zone getting guys to chase. I'm wondering if he was putting pressure on himself to get a lot of K's and keep the ball out of the zone. Now he's got a good defense behind him - could be a stud.

Starting to love this trade.

Yeah, when I first heard and saw Liriano's overall numbers, I was pretty negative, But after breaking down his season, he's been a stud since mid-May.

Tragg
07-28-2012, 11:26 PM
I'm not worried about what the Sox gave up. I'm just not sold Liriano adds much. We'll see.
I always judge Kenny Williams trades by what we give up.
I find that the LESS we give up in his acquisitions, the MORE we get back: 3 bags of balls got Youk, De Aza and Quintana
When we pay top dollar we get Wilson Betemit and Johnny Marquez.

guillensdisciple
07-28-2012, 11:28 PM
And with attendance increasing, Kenny should have very little reason to complain.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 11:31 PM
Opponents are hitting .190 against him in his last 66 innings.

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:37 PM
Do you know what his ERA is excluding the start against his new team

He's had 2, one pretty bad, one pretty good. Why are you so focused on the one bad game in 2 1/2 months?

Moses_Scurry
07-28-2012, 11:38 PM
Prediction time:

Liriano for the rest of 2012 with the Sox

vs.

Anibal Sanchez for the rest of 2012 with the Tigers


In my biased opinion I have to go with Liriano. He is an AL guy. I think he'll do straight up better than Sanchez, but when you factor what the Tigers gave up for him, you have to give the advantage to Kenny.

102605
07-28-2012, 11:40 PM
I see that Liriano is a FA after this year. Can the Sox offer him money to either sign him for a 1 year deal and if he declines would they get a comp pick?

Twins fans not happy campers.

http://www.twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?2513-White-Sox-get-Liriano/page4

BigHurt3515
07-28-2012, 11:42 PM
He's had 2, one pretty bad, one pretty good. Why are you so focused on the one bad game in 2 1/2 months?

I want to know his ERA against every other team besides us since May because it doesn't really matter what he did against us anymore

Rounding_Third
07-28-2012, 11:48 PM
I want to know his ERA against every other team besides us since May because it doesn't really matter what he did against us anymore

They said on Concast Postgame tonight that he has about a 5.5 career era against us. Hard to believe as I can only remember his shutdown games but I guess that's the way it always is.

voodoochile
07-28-2012, 11:57 PM
Well having an extra arm down the stretch will help keep guys fresher. You give up a back up IF for a starting pitcher even if the pitcher is a #5 you did well.

Is Lillibridge still available? Didn't the Sawx DFA him? Pick him up KW.

Edit: shoulda' read the thread I see Lillibeast is in Cleveland.

Lip Man 1
07-28-2012, 11:58 PM
Typical Kenny move. Low risk, high reward.

They didn't trade much to get him and this potentially sets up another move or two as there are reports the Orioles are interested in Floyd.

You can never have enough pitching, this could help.

Gonzo was right as it turned out...Kenny had another move in him. Could he have still another one???

Voodoo:

Cleveland got Lillibridge.

Lip

voodoochile
07-29-2012, 12:02 AM
Typical Kenny move. Low risk, high reward.

They didn't trade much to get him and this potentially sets up another move or two as there are reports the Orioles are interested in Floyd.

You can never have enough pitching, this could help.

Gonzo was right as it turned out...Kenny had another move in him. Could he have still another one???

Voodoo:

Cleveland got Lillibridge.

Lip

Thanks Lip I just edited my post after skimming the whole thread. I'd think you'd be ecstatic. Can never have enough starting pitching, right? I mean this is your main complaint about the Sox through the years, not enough starting pitching. Well even if Liriano is no better than a #5 at this point in his career, it's helpful.

I agree Sale and Peavy get some extra rest and if they do trade Floyd I hope they don't do it until they prove Liriano can still get it done.

Moses_Scurry
07-29-2012, 12:03 AM
I wouldn't want to get rid of Floyd unless it is confirmed %100 that Danks is coming back. Even then I would probably want to keep him unless it is a really good return.

KRS1
07-29-2012, 12:09 AM
I like it. He's still missing a lot of bats and his control issues from the start have calmed down a bit. Gotta love his arm.

BainesHOF
07-29-2012, 12:18 AM
Looks like the Sox have another Gavin Floyd or Jose Contreras in their rotation now. All or nothing depending on how their stuff is on a given night.

Contreras deserves much more respect than that.

Tragg
07-29-2012, 12:22 AM
Typical Kenny move. Low risk, high reward.

They didn't trade much to get him and this potentially sets up another move or two as there are reports the Orioles are interested in Floyd.



As inconsistent as Floyd is, he's a lot more dependable than Liriano.

BainesHOF
07-29-2012, 12:26 AM
At least for now, it looks like we'll be going with a six-man rotation. As was previously mentioned, the key is to have Sale and Peavy in good shape for the playoffs.

I don't like to see Escobar gone, but it's a small price to pay for Liriano. Hernandez is a non-factor.

Williams is not done making moves. We need a backup infielder who can play shortstop. We also need a quality pinch-hitter, preferably a lefty to hit for Beckham. Bringing up Johnson seems like a no-brainer. We no longer need Hudson.

CanBuehrleWait
07-29-2012, 12:26 AM
Count me in the like camp. Yay!

SOX ADDICT '73
07-29-2012, 12:27 AM
...This isn't exactly the Sox acquiring a Grienke or a Dempster...
I could be wrong, but I've got a feeling Ryan Dempster in the AL ≤ Francisco Liriano with a change of scenery.

ShooterMcGavin
07-29-2012, 12:28 AM
It's nice to think Cooper can help Liriano maximize his talent like he did with Thornton, but Cooper does have an already overwhelming task with the number of rookie pitchers on the team. Coop only has so many hours in the day.

I'll admit, I'm still hoping for that scenario though!

Tragg
07-29-2012, 12:30 AM
Does this clear a spot for Brent Morel? Isn't he near healthy?

ShooterMcGavin
07-29-2012, 12:32 AM
How often would the Sox need a backup shortstop? Rarely, unless Ramirez suffers season-ending injury. I don't give a **** about the backup shortstop. Let's not inflate the need for a ****ing backup shortstop.

PalehosePlanet
07-29-2012, 12:36 AM
Does this clear a spot for Brent Morel? Isn't he near healthy?

I've said it before, but I really think that the only way Morel can be a big leaguer again is if he learns to play a decent SS and 2b and reemerges as a utility payer.

A third baseman who can't hit for average or power and isn't a SB threat is basically worthless.

Noneck
07-29-2012, 12:37 AM
Does this clear a spot for Brent Morel?

I dont see much of a use for Morel now since hes a 1 trick pony and a defensive replacement is not needed for 3rd. Youk has had quite a bit of off time this year, I dont see him needing many days off the rest of the way.

samurai_sox
07-29-2012, 12:46 AM
He isn't. Classic overrating our own bench players. Chicago fans love doing that.



http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Brian+Scalabrine+wP6_L0qGBc7m.jpg

guillensdisciple
07-29-2012, 12:47 AM
Oh come on, not even the biggest blow hard thought he was good.

SOX ADDICT '73
07-29-2012, 12:48 AM
Does this clear a spot for Brent Morel? Isn't he near healthy?
That's maybe the third time I've seen his name pop up in this thread. Is the Sox fanbase really clamoring for more Brent Morel this year? I suppose it'd be nice to have a solid defensive backup for Youkilis, and to be able to give him the occasional day off, but forgive me if I've seen enough of Morel and his sub-.200 average for this season. We've got Beckham and Flowers (for now) starting. That's plenty of automatic outs, thanks.

russ99
07-29-2012, 12:55 AM
I dont see much of a use for Morel now since hes a 1 trick pony and a defensive replacement is not needed for 3rd. Youk has had quite a bit of off time this year, I dont see him needing many days off the rest of the way.

Youkilis has a 2013 option, but after that we still need a 3B moving forward. If Morel can get healthy, he could still fill that spot.

As for utility SS, didn't we get one from the Marlins for Ozzie?

Not a big fan of getting Liriano, but it fills a glaring need and we don't have the prospects for much better.

Flipping Floyd for anything decent with his contract and inconsistency on the mound seems to be a bit of wishful thinking.

Nellie_Fox
07-29-2012, 12:56 AM
That's maybe the third time I've seen his name pop up in this thread. Is the Sox fanbase really clamoring for more Brent Morel this year? I suppose it'd be nice to have a solid defensive backup for Youkilis, and to be able to give him the occasional day off, but forgive me if I've seen enough of Morel and his sub-.200 average for this season. We've got Beckham and Flowers (for now) starting. That's plenty of automatic outs, thanks.And with the thin benches teams carry these days in order to have huge bullpens, you really can't have a bench player who can only play one position, much less one who can't hit a lick.

Noneck
07-29-2012, 01:01 AM
Youkilis has a 2013 option, but after that we still need a 3B moving forward. If Morel can get healthy, he could still fill that spot.



I was obviously talking about the rest of this year.

tstrike2000
07-29-2012, 01:04 AM
Does this clear a spot for Brent Morel? Isn't he near healthy?

If only he could hit.

IronFisk
07-29-2012, 01:04 AM
I. Like. This.

:)

soxguy
07-29-2012, 01:23 AM
This is a great pickup Kenny!

Escobar is a nobody and a pitching prospect won't help you win this year.

Youkilis
Myers
Liriano

3 VERY good moves by our GM

Keep up the great work K and don't listen to all the chronic complainers on this site......

DSpivack
07-29-2012, 01:38 AM
Youkilis has a 2013 option, but after that we still need a 3B moving forward. If Morel can get healthy, he could still fill that spot.

As for utility SS, didn't we get one from the Marlins for Ozzie?

Not a big fan of getting Liriano, but it fills a glaring need and we don't have the prospects for much better.

Flipping Floyd for anything decent with his contract and inconsistency on the mound seems to be a bit of wishful thinking.

Ozzie Martinez was recently traded to the Dodgers for cash. He was hitting .178 in Charlotte.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=martin001osv

cards press box
07-29-2012, 01:39 AM
I don't like to see Escobar gone, but it's a small price to pay for Liriano. Hernandez is a non-factor.

Williams is not done making moves. We need a backup infielder who can play shortstop. We also need a quality pinch-hitter, preferably a lefty to hit for Beckham. Bringing up Johnson seems like a no-brainer. We no longer need Hudson.

Dan Johnson would be a good coming off the bench. I have a feeling that he ends up on the major league roster before August 31.

As for a back-up at shortstop, second and third, my first thought was the Sox bringing back Geoff Blum. I noticed that Arizona released Blum about ten days ago. And tonight, I saw this article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-roster-questions-linger-for-sox-20120728,0,2962711.story) in the Trib suggesting that signing Blum was a possibility for the Sox.

I also wonder if Omar Vizquel is available.

The Immigrant
07-29-2012, 03:02 AM
Dan Johnson would be a good coming off the bench. I have a feeling that he ends up on the major league roster before August 31.

As for a back-up at shortstop, second and third, my first thought was the Sox bringing back Geoff Blum. I noticed that Arizona released Blum about ten days ago. And tonight, I saw this article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-roster-questions-linger-for-sox-20120728,0,2962711.story) in the Trib suggesting that signing Blum was a possibility for the Sox.

I also wonder if Omar Vizquel is available.

Blum is 39 and terrible.

samurai_sox
07-29-2012, 04:14 AM
First Sox-Twins trade in my lifetime.

Last one was April 30, 1986 almost 3 weeks before I was born.

LITTLE NELL
07-29-2012, 06:37 AM
I'm on the fence right now on this trade because I really liked Escobar but it tells me the Sox are not counting on Danks for the rest of the year. If he needs surgery get it done right now so he is ready for 2013.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2012, 07:31 AM
Dan Johnson would be a good coming off the bench. I have a feeling that he ends up on the major league roster before August 31.

As for a back-up at shortstop, second and third, my first thought was the Sox bringing back Geoff Blum. I noticed that Arizona released Blum about ten days ago. And tonight, I saw this article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-roster-questions-linger-for-sox-20120728,0,2962711.story) in the Trib suggesting that signing Blum was a possibility for the Sox.

I also wonder if Omar Vizquel is available.

Vizquel is with Toronto. They are in fourth place, but just half a game behind Tampa and Baltimore for second place. However, the Jays would have to scale a lot of teams to claim a wild card spot; the Angels and Athletics currently lead that race.

I too would like to see Johnson on the roster.

Chez
07-29-2012, 07:37 AM
I wonder how much of this move was motivated by Sale's decrease in velocity on Friday? I gotta beleive we're going to see a six man rotation for a while -- which I think is a smart move.

As for the current make-up of our bench, before Escobar was moved, I was hoping to see the Sox pursue Reed Johnson.

mark1529
07-29-2012, 08:03 AM
Let me be among the first to say: Coop'll fix him.



exactly,the man is the best pitching coach in baseball

palehozenychicty
07-29-2012, 08:04 AM
A good move. Let's see the team get a little more consistent now.

TaylorStSox
07-29-2012, 08:15 AM
This is obviously a great move. What's Escobar's upside, Nick Punto? Liriano's upside is Francisco ****ing Liriano.

TaylorStSox
07-29-2012, 08:28 AM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/league/al/sort/strikeoutsPerNineInnings/type/expanded-2

3rd in the league in K/9. His stuff is still there, but control is the problem. If there's one thing Cooper's been great at, it's fixing guy's control. If you don't throw strikes, you're not going to pitch for the Sox.

MLB and AAA are littered with Escobar's. This is a great trade. The Tigers gave up 2 highly rated prospects for Sanchez, including a top 20 pitcher. We gave up Escobar and some other guy.

Steelrod
07-29-2012, 08:36 AM
I think Kenny is doing a remarkable job, considering his budget restraints. Say what you want for whatever reason, they are not getting the support they deserve, yet he continues to deal!

dickallen15
07-29-2012, 08:36 AM
Escobar is productive, Liriano is not.
Those 3 RBI this season is proof you're right.

dickallen15
07-29-2012, 08:39 AM
Funny, I was just going to come on here and suggest Escobar take over for Beckham as our everyday second sacker. I like him....he's a scappy little player and can make contact.

23 strikeouts in 87 AB. He's going to AAA for the Twins. He's not very good. Had a nice game on Saturday, though.

Zisk77
07-29-2012, 08:39 AM
Kind of surprised kenny didn't ask for Jamey Carroll in return since Escobar makes Jamey redundent and more expensive. As previously stated, Vizquel would be a welcomed addition. It would seem that Kenny's last non-waiver deal would be for a utility guy. besides Jamey Caroll, and Cleveland dfa in Lilibeast other possibilities?

Yuni Bettancourt
Nick Punto (vomit)
Jeff Baker

Would so love the swiss army knife Ben Zobrist, but that would not be a minor deal and don't know that he would be available.

dickallen15
07-29-2012, 08:42 AM
Who leaves the rotation? Will Floyd get dealt?
They have to give Sale and Quintana and Peavy some sort of break. Going to a 6 man rotation or having six starters and skipping guys makes a lot of sense.

dickallen15
07-29-2012, 08:44 AM
In the last week, Liriano: 2.2 IP, 7 ER, 23.63 ERA.

Get to work, Coop.

One start----Against the White Sox. He was terrible, but before that, the previous 10 starts, he was as good as Grienke. We'll see what happens. I believe his biggest value is giving the current starters a break.

ChiTownTrojan
07-29-2012, 08:44 AM
Prediction time:

Liriano for the rest of 2012 with the Sox

vs.

Anibal Sanchez for the rest of 2012 with the Tigers


In my biased opinion I have to go with Liriano. He is an AL guy. I think he'll do straight up better than Sanchez, but when you factor what the Tigers gave up for him, you have to give the advantage to Kenny.

Well, you also need to consider who each guy is replacing in the rotation. Sanchez replaced Turner, a guy with only 3 career starts (and an ERA over 8 in those starts). Liriano is replacing Humber, who actually has a track record of success in the majors. So even if Liriano pitchers better for the rest of the season, the net improvement to each rotation (for this season) is probably greater for the Tigers. Oh yeah, and they also got Infante (who filled another huge need).

Of course, the amount by which a player improves the team he's going to should have nothing to do with his trade value. Kenny clearly got the better "value" between the two trades. But the Tigers' acquisitions might have a bigger impact in the standings, just based on who each player is replacing.

dickallen15
07-29-2012, 08:50 AM
Its amazing how many people overvalue Escobar. He's a defensive replacement. Get over Saturday night's game. He's hitting .159 vs. RHP with a .190 slugging pct. Chances are he will never be a regular player above AAA.

This was basically a close to nothing for Liriano trade. Even if Liriano doesn't work out, its not going to hurt the Sox long term, and he may be terrific, but we'll probably see the entire spectrum from Cy Young type performance to DFA type performance. Even so, he'll eat innings and give Sale a break, which is needed for the stretch run.

TaylorStSox
07-29-2012, 08:52 AM
Well, you also need to consider who each guy is replacing in the rotation. Sanchez replaced Turner, a guy with only 3 career starts (and an ERA over 8 in those starts). Liriano is replacing Humber, who actually has a track record of success in the majors. So even if Liriano pitchers better for the rest of the season, the net improvement to each rotation (for this season) is probably greater for the Tigers. Oh yeah, and they also got Infante (who filled another huge need).

Of course, the amount by which a player improves the team he's going to should have nothing to do with his trade value. Kenny clearly got the better "value" between the two trades. But the Tigers' acquisitions might have a bigger impact in the standings, just based on who each player is replacing.

I don't think Liriano's replacing Humber. I'd guess we go with a 6 man rotation. It's imperative to give Sale, Quintana and Peavy an extra day between starts. Sale's already showing signs of the innings catching up to his arm. Quintana's never pitched this many innings. Any rest you can get for Peavy is good. Looking at the bigger picture, we need those 3 to be as fresh as possible in the play offs.

The Tigers gave up a ++ arm to get Sanchez. We gave up a AAAA utility player.

harwar
07-29-2012, 09:05 AM
Yea, i didn't mind losing Lillibridge,but i really liked this Escobar kid .. but it definitely had to be done, since Danks is done for the year ..

Brian26
07-29-2012, 09:08 AM
Its amazing how many people overvalue Escobar. He's a defensive replacement. Get over Saturday night's game. He's hitting .159 vs. RHP with a .190 slugging pct. Chances are he will never be a regular player above AAA.

The way Robin's using his bench this year, the backups don't get a lot of time to develop a rhythm, which wasn't the case with Ozzie who seemed to start Alex Cintron every third day. Escobar seemed not afraid to get a big hit when he had a chance to play. I'd like to see what he could do playing every day. I also liked his enthusiasm.

Bottom line, it's a good trade for the Sox, but I wouldn't list Escobar as a bag of balls. I have a feeling he's going to develop into a decent player when he gets that chance to play consistently.

Mingo
07-29-2012, 09:15 AM
If Liriano pitches the exact same way he did most of the year with the Twins, but is more relaxed with the Defense behind him with the White Soix- he will pitch better. Chances are the Sox will work on Liriano's approach - changing up maybe how his pitches set up the hitter.

Great pickup to get the team to the playoffs. KW is building a good case for GM or the year.

I also like Escobar - good luck to him.

guillensdisciple
07-29-2012, 09:20 AM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/league/al/sort/strikeoutsPerNineInnings/type/expanded-2

3rd in the league in K/9. His stuff is still there, but control is the problem. If there's one thing Cooper's been great at, it's fixing guy's control. If you don't throw strikes, you're not going to pitch for the Sox.

MLB and AAA are littered with Escobar's. This is a great trade. The Tigers gave up 2 highly rated prospects for Sanchez, including a top 20 pitcher. We gave up Escobar and some other guy.

While I agree that coop is awesome, Phil Humber has a 5 plus era.

Not everything he touches turns to gold, but of there is a guy to get it done it will be him.

Anyone concerned about the surplus of lefties or is that a good thing?

#1swisher
07-29-2012, 09:22 AM
Humber played with Liriano in '08/'09. "He's one of those guys who makes the guys around him better by the way he works hard. Everyone knows he has got great stuff. I'm excited to have him on the team. He's going to be a great addition."

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120729&content_id=35751866&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

#1swisher
07-29-2012, 09:30 AM
Chuck Garfien
Adam Dunn is stealing bases. Kenny Williams is stealing players. Thoughts on the Liriano trade.

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-drawer/post/Sox-Drawer-Tireless-Williams-makes-anoth?blockID=747961&feedID=10338&awid=8688832431515659672-914

Tragg
07-29-2012, 09:34 AM
Vizquel is with Toronto. They are in fourth place, but just half a game behind Tampa and Baltimore for second place. However, the Jays would have to scale a lot of teams to claim a wild card spot; the Angels and Athletics currently lead that race.
Heavens

kevingrt
07-29-2012, 09:36 AM
Best part of this trade is seeing who they bring up to be our infielder off the bench.

bigdommer
07-29-2012, 10:04 AM
They have to give Sale and Quintana and Peavy some sort of break. Going to a 6 man rotation or having six starters and skipping guys makes a lot of sense.

I see 2 reasons for the deal. 1) management knows Sale and Q can't make it to October without extra rest. 2) if we make it to October and there is no Danks, we need 2 more guys we can feel confident in a playoff series. Q looks like one, but he is a rookie. Floyd and Humber have been great at times but wildly inconsistent.

SCCWS
07-29-2012, 10:47 AM
He is 28 years old. Certainly worth the gamble. If Coop gets him going, he may decide to re-sign here. Now KW just needs to find a back-up infielder. I bet Red Sox will offer Punto pretty cheap since he is the odd man out in Boston.

kittle42
07-29-2012, 10:56 AM
Bottom line, it's a good trade for the Sox, but I wouldn't list Escobar as a bag of balls. I have a feeling he's going to develop into a decent player when he gets that chance to play consistently.

Which he probably won't, because he's more likely a bag of balls.

voodoochile
07-29-2012, 11:15 AM
This is obviously a great move. What's Escobar's upside, Nick Punto? Liriano's upside is Francisco ****ing Liriano.


/Thread

Lip Man 1
07-29-2012, 11:30 AM
Gonzo told me this morning the areas the Sox are still looking at are a backup infielder and a left handed relief pitcher.

Lip

SephClone89
07-29-2012, 11:33 AM
Gonzo told me this morning the areas the Sox are still looking at are a backup infielder and a left handed relief pitcher.

Lip

Are you Mark Gonzales's beat writer? :redneck

canOcorn
07-29-2012, 11:46 AM
Gonzo told me this morning the areas the Sox are still looking at are a backup infielder and a left handed relief pitcher.

Lip

That should be obvious since we don't currently have anyone who can backup SS and Hudson is brutal at 3rd.

Tragg
07-29-2012, 11:50 AM
Gonzo told me this morning the areas the Sox are still looking at are a backup infielder and a left handed relief pitcher.

Lip

I hope we use resources on neither of those.

Noneck
07-29-2012, 11:57 AM
That should be obvious since we don't currently have anyone who can backup SS and Hudson is brutal at 3rd.


At this point it would have to be Beckham at ss and Hudson at 2nd.

UofCSoxFan
07-29-2012, 12:05 PM
Liriano has been pretty good the last 3 months, with an xFIP of about 3.87. He should benefit from the far better White Sox defense and hopefully will pitch with a bit more confidence as he has a team that can score some runs behind him. Liriano's k rate is also back to where it was for his career, around 1 per inning, after being down at the beginning of the year.

Escobar was a valueable player in that he could play serviceable third, ss, and 2b. Morel is close to back so we have back up 3b covered (we Hudson is there too). Hudson covers 2b back as well. We are in trouble if Alexi goes down, but we would be anyway if Escobar had to play every day.

Bottom line, is we gave up very little for a guy that should give us a chance to win more times than not, and will allow us to save Sale and Peavy a bit for the home stretch.

We need to find a backup infielder but those are fairly easy to get.

Hitmen77
07-29-2012, 12:07 PM
What will the Sox rotation look like this week with Liriano joining the team? Will he have his first Sox start against his former team in Minnesota?

This is a great pickup Kenny!

Escobar is a nobody and a pitching prospect won't help you win this year.

Youkilis
Myers
Liriano

3 VERY good moves by our GM

Keep up the great work K and don't listen to all the chronic complainers on this site......

Who was complaining about these moves? :dunno:

Tragg
07-29-2012, 12:16 PM
Morel is close to back so we have back up 3b covered (we Hudson is there too).

We can't have a backup guy on this roster who can't hit and whose only position is 3B. (I was kidding above re Morel). He should go to the Minors and work on his hitting.

If we are going to use resources for backup IF w should have just told the Twins to pick another player (although they really need IF and may have insisted).

Irishsox1
07-29-2012, 12:20 PM
With Humber and Floyd coming off the DL, Sale pitching more innings than he's ever done before and Danks most likely done for the year the Sox needed a starter and they got one. I hope he comes in and dominates because this is going to be a dog fight to the finish.

UofCSoxFan
07-29-2012, 01:35 PM
We can't have a backup guy on this roster who can't hit and whose only position is 3B. (I was kidding above re Morel). He should go to the Minors and work on his hitting.

If we are going to use resources for backup IF w should have just told the Twins to pick another player (although they really need IF and may have insisted).

I agree that IF we get another backup IF you wouldn't bring up Morel. But as it is now, neither of our backup 3B can hit, we don't have a backup SS, and our backup 2B can't hit (he's also one of our backup 3B). We need another IF on this team. My point is that if we don't get one, we should be OK with Morel/Hudson, as long as Alexi doesn't need more than 2 or 3 games off the rest of the year.

I would argue that part of the reason Morel couldn't hit this year was his back was screwed up and he couldn't reach the outside of the plate. He likely will never give enough offensively to be a starting 3B, but as far as a backup goes, I think he has more value than Hudson, honestly. He may also be a better option at SS if Alexi goes down.

I don't really think it's a simple as telling the Twins to "pick another player." They need a SS and likely wanted him. I mean who else would you have them take that they'd actually want?

Does anyone remember the game in Oakland a while back when Jermaine Dye had to play SS? Uribe got hurt and Crede had to start at SS before a minor league backup could be called up. He got ejected and Dye had to move to SS. In our current state, we'd be in a similar situation. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK200504270.shtml

SOX ADDICT '73
07-29-2012, 01:49 PM
Does anyone remember the game in Oakland a while back when Jermaine Dye had to play SS? Uribe got hurt and Crede had to start at SS before a minor league backup could be called up. He got ejected and Dye had to move to SS. In our current state, we'd be in a similar situation. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK200504270.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK200504270.shtml)
Was that the infamous "Hunter Wendelstedt-says-Joe Crede-didn't-do-enough-to-avoid-getting-HBP" game?

WhiteSox5187
07-29-2012, 02:13 PM
Was that the infamous "Hunter Wendelstedt-says-Joe Crede-didn't-do-enough-to-avoid-getting-HBP" game?

Yep. I really wish I could have seen that game, I wonder where the hell Dye got a shortstop's glove.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-29-2012, 03:14 PM
Kind of surprised kenny didn't ask for Jamey Carroll in return since Escobar makes Jamey redundent and more expensive. As previously stated, Vizquel would be a welcomed addition. It would seem that Kenny's last non-waiver deal would be for a utility guy. besides Jamey Caroll, and Cleveland dfa in Lilibeast other possibilities?

Yuni Bettancourt
Nick Punto (vomit)
Jeff Baker

Would so love the swiss army knife Ben Zobrist, but that would not be a minor deal and don't know that he would be available.

No way Tampa Bay would give up Zobrist. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind taking a flier on Nick Punto, as long as we don't give up anything of value.

soxinem1
07-29-2012, 05:30 PM
Reminds me a bit of eight years ago when Olivo had a huge game to beat the Cubs, then after the game was sent immediately to Seattle for Freddy.

I remember that. I also remember in 1984 the White Sox beat SEA and the winning pitcher was Salome Barojas.

Immediately after the game, Barojas was traded to the Mariners.

Nellie_Fox
07-30-2012, 01:05 AM
At this point it would have to be Beckham at ss and Hudson at 2nd.I sincerely hope they don't start bouncing Beckham around defensively.

TaylorStSox
07-30-2012, 07:40 AM
I sincerely hope they don't start bouncing Beckham around defensively.

Why? Beckham's career trajectory says UI.

hawkjt
07-30-2012, 11:10 AM
This could be a genius move by Kenny.

Liriano had a 2.84 ERA and the league hit .191 against him in ten starts from May 30 to last week vs the Sox....Sox lit him up,which may turn out to be a huge blessing because it may have depressed his price.

Even with last weeks game,they compared Lirano and Peavy's numbers since May 30 and Liriano's were better.

I liked Escobar,but c'mon?....this could be a heist for the Sox.

The Sox are clearly planning for all the uncertainty in our rotation...
Sale is skipping a start due to arm fatigue.
Peavy is coming off surgery.
Quintana is a newbie.
Floyd and Humber had injury stints during this year.
Danks is probably done.

Kenny showed great foresight in moving quickly to add Frankie.
Frankie is a great teammate,and has ace type stuff,still.

Kenny has outdone himself this year,considering all the punches the Sox have taken at 3rd,and in the rotation.

The beauty of the next couple of weeks schedule is that they can skip Sale twice if they want,and still give everybody an extra days rest.
Gavin is not sharp,but he is pitched well anyway...3-2 with a 1.60 ERA in his last 6 starts.
Peavy is solid.
Quintana continues to be shockingly good.
Humber looked good vs Texas.

This rotation,if Sale returns strong,and Liriano continues his roll, can be very strong in Sept,even without our opening day ace....that is all good!

slavko
07-30-2012, 11:16 AM
Why? Beckham's career trajectory says UI.

UI? I don't know UI. First thing I got when Googling was Unemployment Insurance, but I don't think that's it. Or maybe it is.

Edit: Duh. I get it now. Maybe I was right anyway.

doublem23
07-30-2012, 11:20 AM
UI? I don't know UI. First thing I got when Googling was Unemployment Insurance, but I don't think that's it. Or maybe it is.

Utility infielder

I wouldn't mind if the Sox wanted to look for an upgrade at 2B this off-season, but unless someone was willing to get fleeced for Beckham I have no interest in moving him right now. He plays too good a 2B, seems to be a good clubhouse guy, and when the offense is clicking, can be easily hidden at the bottom of the order.

vinny
07-30-2012, 01:48 PM
Santiago being sent down to make room for Liriano, per the team's Twitter.

BigHurt3515
07-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Santiago being sent down to make room for Liriano, per the team's Twitter.

Thats interesting

enurb
07-30-2012, 02:17 PM
This could be a genius move by Kenny.

Liriano had a 2.84 ERA and the league hit .191 against him in ten starts from May 30 to last week vs the Sox....Sox lit him up,which may turn out to be a huge blessing because it may have depressed his price.

Even with last weeks game,they compared Lirano and Peavy's numbers since May 30 and Liriano's were better.

I liked Escobar,but c'mon?....this could be a heist for the Sox.

The Sox are clearly planning for all the uncertainty in our rotation...
Sale is skipping a start due to arm fatigue.
Peavy is coming off surgery.
Quintana is a newbie.
Floyd and Humber had injury stints during this year.
Danks is probably done.

Kenny showed great foresight in moving quickly to add Frankie.
Frankie is a great teammate,and has ace type stuff,still.

Kenny has outdone himself this year,considering all the punches the Sox have taken at 3rd,and in the rotation.

The beauty of the next couple of weeks schedule is that they can skip Sale twice if they want,and still give everybody an extra days rest.
Gavin is not sharp,but he is pitched well anyway...3-2 with a 1.60 ERA in his last 6 starts.
Peavy is solid.
Quintana continues to be shockingly good.
Humber looked good vs Texas.

This rotation,if Sale returns strong,and Liriano continues his roll, can be very strong in Sept,even without our opening day ace....that is all good!

Agree. Great trade by KW. We can easily replace Escobar. Perhaps Scutaro who seems to be languishing in Colorado. Heck, that would be a tremendous upgrade over Escobar. I'm even okay with AAA at backup SS, because that is all Escobar really produced.

Chez
07-30-2012, 02:32 PM
Agree. Great trade by KW. We can easily replace Escobar. Perhaps Scutaro who seems to be languishing in Colorado. Heck, that would be a tremendous upgrade over Escobar. I'm even okay with AAA at backup SS, because that is all Escobar really produced.

Scutaro was traded by the Rockies to the Giants.

Nellie_Fox
07-31-2012, 12:30 AM
UI? I don't know UI. First thing I got when Googling was Unemployment Insurance, but I don't think that's it. Or maybe it is.

Edit: Duh. I get it now. Maybe I was right anyway.Yeah, it took me a while to figure it out too.

Mauer unhappy about the trade, and for him to say anything even remotely negative is like a major tirade for other guys.
http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_21186369/minnesota-twins-reaction-liriano-trade-disappointment?source=pkg