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View Full Version : Reinsdorf talks about Mark Buehrle


RowanDye
07-26-2012, 11:29 AM
"The only thing I can tell you is when Mark told me he had a $56-million, four-year contract offer, I told him he should take it," Reinsdorf said. "I really told Mark he had to take it. At this stage of your career, it's more money than you're worth. He said he was going to take it, but he'll back in four years." -- emphasis mine

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8200951/speaking-panel-wednesday-white-sox-owner-jerry-reinsdorf-sounded-open-idea-contraction-baseball

Please move to Talking Baseball if seen fit.

BRDSR
07-26-2012, 11:42 AM
That's intriguing...the way it's written is a little unclear, but it seems like Buerhle was the one that said he'd be back. (As opposed to Reinsdorf saying Buerhle would be back.). That surprises me, because Buerhle has said a few things over the years about playing for the Cardinals and/or retiring early. Still he's the type of pitcher who could be a 4th or 5th starter into his 40s. One of my favorite Sox players of my lifetime. Would love to see him back at the right price.

beasly213
07-26-2012, 11:46 AM
Hey,
The Marlins are having a firesale anyway. Let's bring back #56 with the Marlins eating a huge chunk of his contract! :cool:

FielderJones
07-26-2012, 11:54 AM
Hey,
The Marlins are having a firesale anyway. Let's bring back #56 with the Marlins eating a huge chunk of his contract! :cool:

If you're doing a salary dump, part of the idea is that you don't pay the guy's contract.

DeadMoney
07-26-2012, 12:00 PM
If you're doing a salary dump, part of the idea is that you don't pay the guy's contract.

I believe I heard this morning that someone even asked JR about getting Buehrle back now. To which JR said something along the lines of, "Does anyone here have $56M so we can pay him?"

And yeah, there's no way the Marlins will pay any of that. That contract's back-end is absurd. It is nice to see he should be back though.

doublem23
07-26-2012, 12:34 PM
And yeah, there's no way the Marlins will pay any of that. That contract's back-end is absurd. It is nice to see he should be back though.

The last two years of Mark's contract are basically a de facto no-trade clause.

thomas35forever
07-26-2012, 02:11 PM
Mark may be back with us toward the end of his career, but I don't see it happening right now.

gobears1987
07-26-2012, 02:28 PM
Buehrle will definitely be back with the Sox, whether he pitches for us or not is the question. Let's just say there's a spot on the outfield wall that will have his name on it. I can see him becoming an ambassador for the team with a lifelong tie to the organization.

TDog
07-26-2012, 02:40 PM
The Marlins offered Buehrle what the players call stupid money, and while I'm happy for him and his family, I resent that signing Buehrle now seems so frivolous. If they weren't going to see it through with the expensive team they built, it frustrates me that they would take Buehrle away from Chicago in the process. There is no way he could ever mean as much to the Marlins as he did to the White Sox.

I always imagined that Buehrle would come back to Chicago at the end of his career because he seemed to have such a good relationship with the ownership and the city. Returning would seem in character. Tim McCarver can't watch Buehrle throw a pitch without mentioning that he said he had a dream of pitching for the Cardinals some day, but when he had his chances to leave the White Sox and never ended up with the Cardinals. But, of course, people say and imagine a lot of things.

Noneck
07-26-2012, 03:32 PM
My opinion of Buehrle is probably different than most. He talked about retiring a couple years ago, then he was so concerned about this family and moving them but finally the long green took precedence over all. All I can say is that if he is miserable down the line in miami, I will have no sympathy for him. He made his bed and now he will have to sleep in it.

pudge
07-26-2012, 03:44 PM
My opinion of Buehrle is probably different than most. He talked about retiring a couple years ago, then he was so concerned about this family and moving them but finally the long green took precedence over all. All I can say is that if he is miserable down the line in miami, I will have no sympathy for him. He made his bed and now he will have to sleep in it.

I don't know, I get what you're saying, but if someone throws ridiculous money at you to do what you're decent at, you'd probably jump at it and your family would be more willing to make the sacrifice. A former boss of mine recently hired me, and my heart was set on moving south to warmer weather, but when the offer came in it was a no-brainer. Things happen.

doublem23
07-26-2012, 03:48 PM
My opinion of Buehrle is probably different than most. He talked about retiring a couple years ago, then he was so concerned about this family and moving them but finally the long green took precedence over all. All I can say is that if he is miserable down the line in miami, I will have no sympathy for him. He made his bed and now he will have to sleep in it.

That's kind of my feeling, but a bit on the harsh side. People need to just stop edifying their favorite players like they're above the business side/rat race of the sport. Mark's no different or better than any other MLB player, he's in the sport A) because he's good at it and B) because of the money. Can't fault a guy for taking a contract that is ridiculously overpaying him. Even JR, a businessman at heart, acknowledged that.

TDog
07-26-2012, 03:53 PM
My opinion of Buehrle is probably different than most. He talked about retiring a couple years ago, then he was so concerned about this family and moving them but finally the long green took precedence over all. All I can say is that if he is miserable down the line in miami, I will have no sympathy for him. He made his bed and now he will have to sleep in it.

The chairman told Buehrle to take the Marlins offer. Buehrle and Reinsdorf apparently discussed the matter between themselves. If Buehrle or his agent had simply announced that he was going to the Marlins, I might agree with you.

If the A's or (less realistically) Cubs offered me stupid money (even less realistically) to work for them (still less realistically), in spite of my loathing for those franchises, I would take the job and wear the company hat to work.

Re-signing Buehrle for that sort of money would have been as silly as trading a young Norm Cash to get Minnie Minoso back at what appeared to be the end of his playing days.

Noneck
07-26-2012, 03:56 PM
That's kind of my feeling, but a bit on the harsh side. People need to just stop edifying their favorite players like they're above the business side/rat race of the sport. Mark's no different or better than any other MLB player, he's in the sport A) because he's good at it and B) because of the money. Can't fault a guy for taking a contract that is ridiculously overpaying him. Even JR, a businessman at heart, acknowledged that.


I dont fault anyone for taking the money but if things dont work out down there (and with that organization it probably wont), I dont want to see any pity party for poor Mark. Also, I do not want a encore perfamnce here just for the sake of an encore, this isnt a Harold Baines situation.

LITTLE NELL
07-26-2012, 04:00 PM
My opinion of Buehrle is probably different than most. He talked about retiring a couple years ago, then he was so concerned about this family and moving them but finally the long green took precedence over all. All I can say is that if he is miserable down the line in miami, I will have no sympathy for him. He made his bed and now he will have to sleep in it.

That's kind of my feeling, but a bit on the harsh side. People need to just stop edifying their favorite players like they're above the business side/rat race of the sport. Mark's no different or better than any other MLB player, he's in the sport A) because he's good at it and B) because of the money. Can't fault a guy for taking a contract that is ridiculously overpaying him. Even JR, a businessman at heart, acknowledged that.

Where I lost a little respect for Buerhle was when he stated on a few occasions that money was not all that important and then he took the money and ran.
That being said he sure would look good back in a Sox uniform as we head into the August Dog Days and the stretch drive.

Noneck
07-26-2012, 04:02 PM
The chairman told Buehrle to take the Marlins offer. Buehrle and Reinsdorf apparently discussed the matter between themselves. If Buehrle or his agent had simply announced that he was going to the Marlins, I might agree with you.



I dont understand your point, Buehrle obviously went to the chairman so he would match or give him a similar offer. At that point reinsdorf saw the offer and didnt want any part of it and wished him the best.

LITTLE NELL
07-26-2012, 04:08 PM
I'm curious of what JR was willing to pay MB had he not got than stupid money from Miami. Would have he matched say 10 or 11 million a year for 3 or 4 years?

ChiSoxGal85
07-26-2012, 04:15 PM
I'm curious of what JR was willing to pay MB had he not got than stupid money from Miami. Would have he matched say 10 or 11 million a year for 3 or 4 years.?

I wondered that myself. Did JR even say "what would you take to stay in Chicago, Mark?" Or was he planning on extending Danks and didn't even bother having that conversation?

SoxFanEarl
07-26-2012, 04:20 PM
We need to move on. People can say he took the money and ran. Some can believe Reinsdorf told him to take the money. Mark's best days as a pitcher are past him. I am not saying he is terrible by any means. I am a BIG Mark Buehrle fan. I have always been one since he came up on the South Side.

But signing Mark now is not what we need. Is Mark better or just as good as the back end of the rotation now....that is a good debatable point. If the White Sox were to grab a pitcher for the stretch run...and possibly sign that pitcher to an extension...they would be in soooo much better shape for the coming years. And by then, who knows, maybe we can finally stored up a good minor league system and do the rebuilding the right way.

Tragg
07-26-2012, 04:58 PM
If the White Sox were to grab a pitcher for the stretch run...and possibly sign that pitcher to an extension...they would be in soooo much better shape for the coming years. And by then, who knows, maybe we can finally stored up a good minor league system and do the rebuilding the right way.

The pitcher will essentially replace Peavy after this year, less what we give up for him.

russ99
07-26-2012, 05:14 PM
I wondered that myself. Did JR even say "what would you take to stay in Chicago, Mark?" Or was he planning on extending Danks and didn't even bother having that conversation?

Payroll was cut this offseason, from $127M to $97M in round numbers.

What do you think Jerry would have been OK with? Would Mark had taken the $14M he was making last year or a cut from that?

Hitmen77
07-26-2012, 05:16 PM
The last two years of Mark's contract are basically a de facto no-trade clause.

Maybe the Marlins will trade Buehrle to the Yankees at some point. They'll have no problems taking on an $18M/year contract.

Could they perhaps trade him to the Tigers? Ilitch doesn't seem to have a problem with stupid money contracts.

As long as Mark doesn't show a significant decline in skills, I could see where a few big spending teams would be willing to take on his contract if they didn't have to give up too much to get him.

DSpivack
07-26-2012, 05:48 PM
Payroll was cut this offseason, from $127M to $97M in round numbers.

What do you think Jerry would have been OK with? Would Mark had taken the $14M he was making last year or a cut from that?

I would have preferred giving Buehrle that money instead of Danks, and trading the younger southpaw for prospects. Payroll would've been the same, assuming Buehrle would have accepted a deal similar to the one he got from Miami but not back-loaded.*

*Danks extension is 5-year $65 million, Buehrle's Miami deal is 4 years, $58 million. After this season Danks will make $14.25 million in each season of his deal (average annual value being $13 million), whereas the average annual deal of Buehrle's contract is $14.25 million.

SOX ADDICT '73
07-26-2012, 06:27 PM
I would have preferred giving Buehrle that money instead of Danks, and trading the younger southpaw for prospects. Payroll would've been the same, assuming Buehrle would have accepted a deal similar to the one he got from Miami but not back-loaded.*

*Danks extension is 5-year $65 million, Buehrle's Miami deal is 4 years, $58 million. After this season Danks will make $14.25 million in each season of his deal (average annual value being $13 million), whereas the average annual deal of Buehrle's contract is $14.25 million.
Hindsight's always 20/20. Buehrle is a pitcher on the back end of his career. At the time, Danks looked to be a younger, better version of Buehrle, rather than a guy with a shoulder injury that doesn't seem real close to healing anytime soon.

DSpivack
07-26-2012, 06:37 PM
Hindsight's always 20/20. Buehrle is a pitcher on the back end of his career. At the time, Danks looked to be a younger, better version of Buehrle, rather than a guy with a shoulder injury that doesn't seem real close to healing anytime soon.

The problem I have with Danks extension is that it was based upon potential and not actual performance, he had not really shown all that much that he would become a better pitcher than Buehrle. As for Buehrle, he's a soft tossing lefty; a 4-year contract taking him from 33 to 37 I don't think have a problem with.

SCCWS
07-26-2012, 06:55 PM
Red Sox under Theo wanted him badly but Kenny decided not to do the deal. I wonder if the present Red Sox regime will make a run at him now if he is available for some discount.

DumpJerry
07-26-2012, 08:34 PM
I dont understand your point, Buehrle obviously went to the chairman so he would match or give him a similar offer. At that point reinsdorf saw the offer and didnt want any part of it and wished him the best.
Maybe Burls when to Uncle Jerry to let him know about the offer on the table so Jerry would hear about it in person and not through the media as his way of thanking him for all those wonderful years.

Lip Man 1
07-26-2012, 10:17 PM
Tragg:

While I think it's unlikely I wouldn't close the door on Peavy returning on a reduced deal. Apparently he told the media last week how much he likes playing here and would like to return.

Lip

Noneck
07-26-2012, 10:44 PM
Maybe Burls when to Uncle Jerry to let him know about the offer on the table so Jerry would hear about it in person and not through the media as his way of thanking him for all those wonderful years.


Well the article says that reinsdorf told him to take the offer so that makes me believe that the contract wasnt signed and buehrle was there for more than just saying thanks. But who knows.

WhiteSox5187
07-26-2012, 10:50 PM
Well the article says that reinsdorf told him to take the offer so that makes me believe that the contract wasnt signed and buehrle was there for more than just saying thanks. But who knows.

I seem to recall reading that before signing with the Marlins Buerhle told the White Sox the offer he had and asked if they could/would come close and the White Sox said no. Perhaps this is the meeting that was discussed earlier.

Noneck
07-26-2012, 10:55 PM
I seem to recall reading that before signing with the Marlins Buerhle told the White Sox the offer he had and asked if they could/would come close and the White Sox said no. Perhaps this is the meeting that was discussed earlier.

Thats what I thought also.

Irishsox1
07-26-2012, 11:33 PM
The deal Buehrle is so back ended which is why the Miami owner guy did it. If it works out great, if it doesn't he's not the one holding the bag.

I would be shocked if Buehrle is still in Miami for years 3 & 4 of that deal. Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers, and that's if he's still good.

TheVulture
07-26-2012, 11:57 PM
If Reinsdorf doesn't think Buehrle wasn't worth the contract he got with Miami, but Danks was worth the fairly similar contract he received from the Sox, all I can say is the chairman has lost his frickin mind.

TheVulture
07-26-2012, 11:59 PM
I'm curious of what JR was willing to pay MB had he not got than stupid money from Miami. Would have he matched say 10 or 11 million a year for 3 or 4 years?

How is that stupid money? It was fair market value. Name me a similar pitcher to Buerhle working on a lesser contract.

TheVulture
07-27-2012, 12:07 AM
Is Mark better or just as good as the back end of the rotation now....that is a good debatable point.

Whether Mark is better than Floyd and Humber is debatable now? Did I wake up in an alternate universe this morning or what?

kittle42
07-27-2012, 10:02 AM
How is that stupid money? It was fair market value. Name me a similar pitcher to Buerhle working on a lesser contract.

It's been the thing around here for several years now to rail on free agent contracts like they're all above market value.

LITTLE NELL
07-27-2012, 11:22 AM
How is that stupid money? It was fair market value. Name me a similar pitcher to Buerhle working on a lesser contract.

It's been the thing around here for several years now to rail on free agent contracts like they're all above market value.

Did not JR himself who knows the market better than any of us experts here at WSI tell MB to take the Miami offer because at this stage in his career he wasn't worth that kind of money?
Did MB get any other offers close to what Miami gave him? It was stupid money for a very consistant pitcher but who has only won more than 16 games once in his career.
In MBs last 6 seasons with the Sox he was 76-66, averaging 12.6 wins a year and 11 losses a year, not quite Cy Young numbers.

doublem23
07-27-2012, 11:28 AM
In MBs last 6 seasons with the Sox he was 76-66, averaging 12.6 wins a year and 11 losses a year, not quite Cy Young numbers.

Nobody cares about W-L though

kittle42
07-27-2012, 11:33 AM
It was stupid money for a very consistant pitcher but who has only won more than 16 games once in his career.
In MBs last 6 seasons with the Sox he was 76-66, averaging 12.6 wins a year and 11 losses a year, not quite Cy Young numbers.

W-L means nothing. Felix Hernandez won the Cy at 13-12 because voters finally realize that other metrics are far, far more significant than wins in determining how good a pitcher one is.

Noneck
07-27-2012, 11:45 AM
I never look at wins and losses in a small sample size but Buehrles sample size is too large to ignore.

RowanDye
07-27-2012, 11:45 AM
Nobody cares about W-L though

W-L means nothing. Felix Hernandez won the Cy at 13-12 because voters finally realize that other metrics are far, far more significant than wins in determining how good a pitcher one is.

Seems odd that you would bring up a stats argument in reference to Buehrle. I've always seen him as an anti-saber guy.

Those who denigrate pitchers wins also tend to fawn over strikeouts.

On the contrary, Marks biggest skill seems to be consistency and eating innings.

Remember all of the arguments about how Buehrle was our ace -- regardless of his K totals, etc. ? Well I don't think anyone would be arguing that now.

kittle42
07-27-2012, 11:57 AM
On the contrary, Marks biggest skill seems to be consistency and eating innings.

Yup - and every team needs a guy like that, and guys like that can have long, great careers if they have quality skills, which Buehrle does.

Innings eaters generally don't have flashy W/L %s for their career, though (admittedly, I haven't investigated this enough to state it unequivocally).

Frontman
07-27-2012, 12:08 PM
The Marlins offered Buehrle what the players call stupid money, and while I'm happy for him and his family, I resent that signing Buehrle now seems so frivolous. If they weren't going to see it through with the expensive team they built, it frustrates me that they would take Buehrle away from Chicago in the process. There is no way he could ever mean as much to the Marlins as he did to the White Sox.

I always imagined that Buehrle would come back to Chicago at the end of his career because he seemed to have such a good relationship with the ownership and the city. Returning would seem in character. Tim McCarver can't watch Buehrle throw a pitch without mentioning that he said he had a dream of pitching for the Cardinals some day, but when he had his chances to leave the White Sox and never ended up with the Cardinals. But, of course, people say and imagine a lot of things.

I had similar feelings. Mark is a great talent, but he's not at the level of money the Marlins were throwing around. While I would of loved to see him go his entire career on the Southside, that wasn't in the cards to happen.

Mark will always have a special place in the White Sox family, that's for certain.

FielderJones
07-27-2012, 01:06 PM
The deal Buehrle is so back ended which is why the Miami owner guy did it. If it works out great, if it doesn't he's not the one holding the bag.

Other than the Yankees, which team is likely to take on that back-ended contract? If Miami can't make a deal with the Yankees, he indeed will be the one holding the bag.

SI1020
07-27-2012, 01:39 PM
I never look at wins and losses in a small sample size but Buehrles sample size is too large to ignore. We go around and around constantly about metrics. I never say I don't care about this stat or that stat, but look at all of them, in addition to watching as much baseball as I possibly can. I knew way back when that Whitey Ford at 236-106, was not that much better than Billy Pierce at 211-169. Mark Buerhle's W-L Pct. started to tail off in 06, a sub par year for him. Since then I see him as a solid SP every year except 2010. He's been a model of durability and consistency for well over a decade. So far this year he has been the most effective SP for the Marlins.